Obama Ends The Civil War In Iraq, And More

As explained in the preceding post Team Obama has revised the view of Iraq espoused on their website - the "civil war" which raged as of June 22, is now over.  I credit Glenn Reynolds' link to my earlier snark, although I grudgingly acknowledge the possibility of other explanations.  I also note that the Daily News found news in other Obama revisions about the surge but skipped by the end of the civil war.

Good "the surge can't succeed" clips from Obama via PowerLine.  More here.

Here is the text of Obama's latest speech on Iraq and Afghanistan, with CNN and NY Times coverage.

AllahPundit on the latest NY Times poll - Obama is telling us what we want to hear, not what we need to know.  Surprise!  The Times coverage headlined race.

Comments

[JM Hanes]

Good Morning, Jane!

[Jane]

Good Morning JMH - you beat me to it! It's gonna be a great day!

[clarice]

Goor morning to both of you early risers.

[Jane]

You are doing pretty well on that front yourself Clarice!

[thelonereader]

Re:This is a testament to our military’s hard work, improved counterinsurgency tactics, and enormous sacrifice by our troops and military families. It is also a consequence of the decision of many Sunnis to turn against al Qaeda in Iraq, and a lull in Shia militia activity. But the absence of genuine political

Anyone else note that BHO is admitting here that there was/is al Qaeda in Iraq? So if we are fighting al Qaeda there what's the beef?

This is a repost from the previous thread--Oh and good morning all-beautiful day.

[fdcol]

" ... It is also a consequence of the decision of many Sunnis to turn against al Qaeda in Iraq ... "

This would not have happened without the insurgency. Had these Sunnis not lived under the brutal authority of AQI and experienced first-hand the horrors wrought by al-Zaqarwi and his successors, they would still believe in the myth of the superiority of Sharia and AQI's brand of government. As would the rest of the Islamic world.

As horrible as the period between 2004-2007 was in Iraq, history will show that it was a necessary phase in changing Muslim perceptions in our larger conflict against militant and radical Islam.

Not the "strategic blunder" that Obama and the rest of his ilk believe it was.

[GMax]

Karl Rove is just amazing. Only about a week ago he was asked about Obama's surge to the center, and Karl said that while it is important for him to be seen by the overall electorate as being more moderate he said the risk with such a dramatic change is that you risk your credibility with the electorate. He also said its impossible to be a transformational candidate if you are seen as just another politician.

Heck with the sample bias that that CBS/NYT poll has and still over 50% say he will say anything, the true number in a well taken sample is quite a bit higher.

Could not happen to nicer guy in my own opinion. Thanks Karl, you da man.

[Cecil Turner]

As horrible as the period between 2004-2007 was in Iraq, history will show that it was a necessary phase in changing Muslim perceptions in our larger conflict against militant and radical Islam.

Yeah, and it ain't just Iraq, nor is it over yet. In the latest incident, I'm not sure what possessed the Israelis to trade live terrorists for dead hostage remains, but the result is certainly predictable:

In the Gaza Strip, controlled by the violently anti-Israel Hamas group, people celebrated in the streets and handed out sweets in support of Hezbollah.

The celebration of atrocities amongst the Islamist supporters--as long as it can be perceived as a tactical victory, however small--is nothing short of nauseating.

Reviewing the oft-cited Geneva Convention on grave breaches, I'd note that in this particular incident the Islamists managed to violate pretty much all of 'em:

Art. 147. Grave breaches to which the preceding Article relates shall be those involving any of the following acts, if committed against persons or property protected by the present Convention: wilful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments, wilfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, unlawful deportation or transfer or unlawful confinement of a protected person, compelling a protected person to serve in the forces of a hostile Power, or wilfully depriving a protected person of the rights of fair and regular trial prescribed in the present Convention, taking of hostages and extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly. [emphasis added]

If this doesn't highlight the moral dimension of the problem (and the vapid stupidity of the argument that preferential treatment of war criminal detainees leads to reciprocal humane treatment of our own prisoners), then I don't know what could.

[jimmyk]

So if we are fighting al Qaeda there what's the beef?

But, but, um, AQ is only there because we are there! Yeah, that's it!

As if that's a bad thing. Where would they be otherwise? Either attacking the U.S., or concentrated in Afghanistan. We drew them into Iraq and have severely weakened them. But to Obama that's a bad thing, because we should have focused our entire military effort on trudging around the Pakistan/Afghan border looking for OBM.

[fdcol]

It's impossible to make peace and co-exist with neighbors who, like the Palestinians, use cartoon characters to inculcate into their children a culture of death and who glorify your own murder as an heroic act of "martyrdom".

[clarice]

Actually,the Israelis should have not specified if the prisoners they were returning were alive or dead and decided when they got their teo guys back which it would be. Olmert is an idiot.

He has just upped the ante on the thugs kidnapping and murdering Israelis.

And Karl Rove is amazing..Everytime I see him offering up an analysis I am thunderstruck .

[rhodeymark]

I'm not sure what possessed the Israelis to trade live terrorists for dead hostage remains

Would that be because of their own religious traditions?

[clarice]

Not that I know of. Suicide doesn't seem to me a talmudic proscription.

[clarice]

The Israeli armed forces have had a rule that they leave none of their people behind on the field--alive or dead. I don't think, however, that mandates trading losts of thugs for corpses. Why should the thugs follow the Geneva conventions on prisoners now? It's a lot cheaper to just kill the prisoners and it doesn't effect the barter price in the least.

[clarice]

**trading LOTS of thugs***

[Cecil Turner]

Would that be because of their own religious traditions?

I suspect that's so (at least in part). But that just makes it a good illustration of the downside of mixing religion and politics . . . because Clarice is spot-on as to the likely result.

[cathyf]

Am I a really bad person for thinking that Samir Kuntar would have cut a more dashing figure had he arrived at the exchange dressed in a remote-controlled explosive vest?

[clarice]

Not in my eyes, cathyf.

[BobS]

CT: Thats fascinating, CT. Why hasn't anyone attempted to publically advance terrorist's violation of Art. 147

[fdcol]

Israel should treat each Hamas and Hezbollah prisoner to a bris before release.

[clarice]

A fine note showing that Obama's indictment of the war in Iraq really is applicable instead to Afghanistan, suggesting he'd abandon that war just after he abandones the war in Afghanistan.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/greenwald/16211

I wonder, if growing up essentially fatherless explains the wussiness and narcissism of people like Clinton and Obama.(And Kerry, too--who was shipped off early to a far away boarding school where his father didn't visit him even when he was seriously ill.)

[Jane]

You know what I find amazing for its consistency.

Obama gives a speech, on any subject, replete with veiled soaring rhetoric. Immediately he is lauded by his supporters, while his detractors are silent because it takes a bunch of time to plow thru the rhetoric and get to what he actually said.

And as plowing continues, the anger starts to percolate - always about what an unmitigated fraud this guy is. About how he stands for nothing and says even less.

It's fascinating.

[clarice]

Actually, Islamic men are already circumcised.

[Jane]

Clarice,

I grew up fatherless and I am anything but a wus. Of course that might be because I'm a girl.

[cathyf]

I wonder, if growing up essentially fatherless explains the wussiness and narcissism of people like Clinton and Obama.

That's an idea that's been brought up before. Newt Gingrinch is another one with the same sort of biography.

[clarice]

Yes,Jane--I am talking about the effect on boys of not having a father..I find fgirls whose father left, wasn't present for whatever reason tend to be either very resilient and self-sufficient or always hungering for a male's presence and approval.

As to your point about plowing thru the high flown rhetoric only to find doo doo--YUP! It'll take practice to catch up quickly in the heat of a debate,

[fdcol]

Actually, Islamic men are already circumcised.

Yep. And a 2nd one would leave less. LOL

[Rick Ballard]

"Why hasn't anyone attempted to publically advance terrorist's violation of Art. 147"

What? We can't have any detraction from the nobility of the Pali savages or the Zimbabwean savages or the Nork savages or the Venezuelan/Colombian savages or the Iranian savages. You start doing that and The Narrative® is revealed as pure idiocy. Can't have that - it would destroy the Democrat party.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that midlevel officers in the Venezuelan Army are considering applying a variation of the Shraron (and now Uribe) tactic of 'This Hellfire's for you' domestically. If they do, perhaps the Iranian dissidents will give it a whirl.

The Pali leadership's habit of traveling only when surrounded by an entire preschool has slowed town Israel's application of the tactic for the moment but Olmert may have to overcome his reluctance to use it in order to save his own sorry butt politically - which is all this swap was about in the first place.

[Porchlight]

And as plowing continues, the anger starts to percolate

Definitely my experience. The amount of required parsing, examining of past positions, etc. is infuriating. I can't even begin to imagine the frustration if (heaven forbid) he becomes President.

[clarice]

I've always told my family that if I am ever held hostage and I find out they begged my govt to make significant concessions for my return, I'll never speak to them again out of shame.
Shame on these families for whining and moaning for the return of the bodies at the sure cost of pain for many more of the families of their countrymen.

[Jane]

WEll that presents another problem. Most people aren't paying close attention - they hear the rhetoric and assume he is saying what they want to hear. They don't bother with the analysis part.

You really couldn't have dreamed up a better way to fool some the the people all of the time.

[Danube of Thought]

I loved that note applying Obama's words on Iraq to the situation in Afghanistan. Why is Afghanistan not a distraction? And the war in Afghanistan has not only gone on longer than World War II and the US Civil War, it has gone on longer than the war in Iraq.

Will someone ask him why he doesn't feel that it is time to withdraw from Afghanistan? Answer: no one will, because it's been a long time since he allowed anyone to ask questions.

[clarice]

Isn't that commentary piece a beauty--short, crisp, surgical gelding of the Obamessiah.

[Rick Ballard]

Jane,

Could you put a post up at your site outlining the info you would like to have concerning energy and perqs? "Energy" is a rather broad topic...

[Jane]

Rick,

Yeah, I'm compiling some stuff in a notebook (and actually doing some work), so give me some time. I'll let you know when I'm at that point.

The best thing I found on perqs so far is LUN, altho I just started going thru it.

[MikeS]

I'm trying to follow Obama's logic.

Obama says the Surge hasn't worked in Iraq so, we should surge in Afghanistan.

Obama says remnants of the Taliban and Al Qaeda are flaring up and threatening to retake Afghanistan because we haven't had enough troops there to finish the job. Countervailing that idea, Obama doesn't think al Qaeda, Sunni or Shia militias, or Iranian forces will threaten to retake Iraq if we remove all forces immediately.

Whoa. Nuance. Cognitive dissonance.

[Pofarmer]

I think Obama is about to have his Thunder stolen on Afghanistan, too.

http://rednecktexan.blogspot.com/2008/07/nato-massing-troops-on-pakistan-border.html

[Cecil Turner]

Why hasn't anyone attempted to publically advance terrorist's violation of Art. 147

One could argue that they're not signatories, and since the hostages were soldiers they're not protected, it doesn't apply (and, to the very gullible, that the bodies' disfigurations were caused by the raid, not in subsequent torture). But the bottom line is that the terrorist playbook is based on flouting the laws of war, and that their very existence represents a conscious rejection of the civilized standards of irregular warfare:

• (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
• (b)that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
• (c) that of carrying arms openly;
• (d)that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

The Islamist approach of developing catspaw organizations (and non-state actors such as the Palis), hiding amongst civilians, booby-trapping and smuggling explosives, and targeting noncombatants is the very antithesis of civilized warfare, and calculatedly so. The legalistic hair-splitting defense has to ignore the very substance of their existence in order to be plausible . . . and only the most devoted fellow traveler could actually buy into it.

As to why it's not debated in public? Well, it's not news. And that's partly because the nature of terrorism hasn't changed much . . . and partly because, like Rick says, it doesn't fit the narrative. It's pretty hard to make the moral equivalence case if one allows the enemy is intentionally being as evil as possible, just for the shock value. And the moral equivalence brigade is a staple of the American left (and their supporters in the MSM).

[BobS]

I understand, CT. My point lies in "public advancement" Like the presence of yellowcake in Saddam's possession, public understanding of issues is harmful to our own security. While I advocate the existance of Guantanimo and the special tribunals, I never knew that these terrorists were already in violation of Geneva. Perhaps public knowledge of this would have given the administration more political capital in advancing their policy. Maybe we might not have even had that tragic recent USSC ruling on granting detainees access to our courts.

[Jane]

Pofarmer, I'm sure Obama will say NATO stole the idea from him. They are already saying that about the talks with Iran that were announced last night.

[BobS]

OBAMA: Me, too. Me, too

[Danube of Thought]

Note well that the "talks with Iran that were announced last night" bear no resemblance at all to Obama's proclamation that he, personally, would meet with Ahmajinedad without preconditions.

This crew plays awfully fast and loose with facts. Obama is not just another pol, he's an unusually dishonest one.

[narciso]

Anybody figure the Al Marri case, which was remanded to the 4th Circuit enbanc; because it was apparently too clear the first time around. This is the Casey of military
detainee law;and I don't mean it as a complement:href<http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/wpcontent/uploads/2008/07/almarrienbanc.pdf> I guess it means whatever you want it to mean, they'll probably appeal to the Supremes but I have no confidence in what they would come up with.

On another note, one of these days I'll come up with my long post on the British experience in the NorthWestern Frontier; which was derived from an account of the British hunt for a would be Mahdi; the Fakir of Waziristan. Which would suggest
what a Pakistan first policy would entail;
Future Marshal Robert Roberts, Winston
Churchill, to use two examples, 40 years apart; figure in this scenario.

[GMax]

I just saw a comment on a website but have not been able to confirm it. Anyone have any information on this?

The contention is that the Congressional ban on offshore drilling is set to expire on 9/30/08? They thought they were safe due to the Executive ban as well and have not acted to extend it and probably can not muster the votes to extend.

First I heard this, dont know if its true or not. But if someone can confirm or deny with info I would be appreciative.

[Jane]

I've heard that from a number of sources GMax - not the date, just that it was about to expire.

Good news - eh?

[Ranger]

GMax,

I have read the same thing. If it is true then the Dems are in for a rough Sept/Oct. The Eco-warriors will demand that the ban be extended just at the time the public will be paying attention to politics. If the Dems fail to extend the ban, they will lose a huge part of their money and a chunk of their foot soldiers for the final streach of the campaign season. They only way they will be able to extend it is to get Blue Dog freshmen Dems to vote for it, thus putting those seats at risk, as refusing to allow drilling would kill the Dems with the general public.

[Rick Ballard]

GMax,

Perino outlined the lift of the ban in this press briefing. Here's the pertinent Q & A:

Q It's my understanding the congressional ban expires at the end of September without -- unless it's reauthorized.

MS. PERINO: Every year. It's a yearly ban that they do in the appropriations process.

Q So would what the President wants be accomplished by allowing the congressional ban to expire, or do you need new legislation?

MS. PERINO: You need new legislation. And in addition to that, one thing that's just a detail point, the President's ban or executive branch ban goes through 2012. And as Wendell said, the legislative ban is something that they repeat on a yearly basis.

[Jane]

. They only way they will be able to extend it is to get Blue Dog freshmen Dems to vote for it, thus putting those seats at risk, as refusing to allow drilling would kill the Dems with the general public.

That Rove is really a magnificent bastard, isn't he?

[Barney Frank]

(And Kerry, too--who was shipped off early to a far away boarding school where his father didn't visit him even when he was seriously ill.)

Can't say I blame pop Kerry. I probably would have surreptitiously switched his wrist band with any other infant at the hospital when I first got a look at baby Herman Munster in the nursery.

[glenda waggoner]

I may be old-fashioned. I don't suffer fools much. I think Hezbollah and Hamas need a little lesson, like, say--Gomorah!
How hard would it be to evacuate the women and kids, warn the Israeli's away- and ##//!
the evil ones? No amount of co-operation, diplomacy, payoffs will do now or ever. These dealers of death just have to go.We evacuate Houston to Corpus Christi very efficiently when a storm comes in the Gulf, I Know it's not the same, but that is my idea of dealing with H&H in the Gaza. I think maybe, after that, their financiers and planners in Iran might want to negotiate.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Israel should treat each Hamas and Hezbollah prisoner to a bris before release.

I suspect we're discussing an, ahem, radical bris.

[bad]

The press is actually reporting negatively about Obama. Is the recent RAS? poll showing Hillary beating McCain by a much bigger margin than Obama vs McCain responsible? Is there a movement afoot to make the case for Hillary in Denver?

No snark, a serious question

[GMax]

OH I get it they bury it in the appropriation process. I bet that technique wont work this year.

Oh this should be so much fun. Pass the popcorn!

[narciso]

Well Wilkinson & Duncan's concurrence,
provides some confort; actually applying
the proper laws and history; fancy that.
Otherwise, Al Marri; provides an abject lesson in how not to write a brief much less an opinion. The opinion actually argues abandoning ex parte Milligan because
of possible adverse consequences to Americans in the future; as if American civilians haven't been held and/or killed
in the past because of their state of residency or nationality.

[bad]

Tigerhawk on Powerpoint:

I myself use Powerpoint very sparingly, and am troubled by its influence on the actual thinking of our employees. Why? Because I believe that if you cannot articulate your points without resorting to more than a few slides the odds are high that you have not thought through what you are saying with adequate rigor. Perhaps that is because you do not think with discipline, or perhaps it is because you spend too much time on the appearance of your presentation rather than its content.

He really is discussing Powerpoint but he might as well be talking about Obama--all flash no facts.

LUN

[cathyf]

While I advocate the existance of Guantanimo and the special tribunals, I never knew that these terrorists were already in violation of Geneva.

BobS, I am utterly speechless at this assertion. Are you really saying that you did not know that in order to rate Guantanamo a prisoner must have been found to be in violation of the GC rules for lawful combatants? (Ok, some guys have been sent there and then sent back, so it's possible to get sent there without being a war criminal, but as soon as they figure out that you are not, it's back out the door for you.)

There are/were lots of legitimate POWs in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Regular army guys, and members of militias that followed the laws of war (inignia, chain of command, etc.) It would have been a violation of the GC to ask them anything at all past name, rank and serial number, let alone take them to Guantanamo. Those guys have all (or pretty much all) been released years ago.

[GMax]

Several of the PUMA sites were buzzing last night BAD with the rumor that 7 Superdelegates had decided to change their commitment from Obama to Hill. Of course no names, so it was Larry Johnson quality of rumor. But these hard core Hill supporters believed it, really wanted to believe it bad.

I love the PUMA name too, seems innocuous until you know what the acronym means!

[PeterUK]

"Actually, Islamic men are already circumcised."

Sew it back on.

[narciso]

<http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/wpcontent/uploads/2008/07/almarrienbanc.pdf> for those who can't see what I'm referring to.

[clarice]

I am so excited to learn about the Congressional ban. Once again the Saudis have joined forces with the Bushitler Halliburtons to screw the Dems..(HEH..Just joking on the last part though surely that will be somebody's line on the left. And soon.)

[Rick Ballard]

As much as I'd like to give the credit to Rove my bet is that this was developed by McConnell, Boehner and Bush. It creates a great wedge between the Blue Dogs and the Copperhead/Obama faction.

It might be Rove, but he's not the only fellow in the party who understands strategery.

[clarice]

cathy, I'll bet Bob's confusion on this point is widespread--again helped along by the Dem-MSM deliberate muddling on this score.

[clarice]

PUK, you are diabolical. I like that in a man.

[PeterUK]

Vice-Admiral Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson, KB (29 September 1758 – 21 October 1805).
His mother died when he was nine,he joined the Royal Navy when he was twelve,the rest is history.
John F. Kerry he wasn't.

[narciso]

href<http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/almarrienbanc.pdf>

[GMax]

PUK

Assume you have heard about the baby doctor replying to the new mother when she inquired about a circumcision for baby son, "Yes I work for tips."

[bad]

GMax

I read a couple of those sites and have no problem believing Pumas will try something, they've always maintained she was the rightfull nominee.

Its the mainstream press that has me intrigued. The AP has actally criticized and snarked on Obama (via Powerline), the Washington Post (LUN) has pointed out some Obama realities as well. Even the LA Times pointed out the airbrushing of his website.

Will the press put a full court press on Obama in order to give Hillary a chance at the convention if they percieve she has a better chance of winning in November? After all, he was selected not elected.

[Tina]

Gibson, Couric, and Williams are ALL going with Obama on his big European trip next week. Where were they when McCain traveled? All three national news anchors are going to have interviews with the Obamessiah as he travels across Europe.

Isn't he special!

[Jane]

One can only hope bad. One can only hope.

[BobS]

Sorry, cathyf. I'm not a lawyer, and I am not aware of most details in the Geneva Accords. I did not mean to infer that these individuals did not belong in Guantanamo. They do for heavens sake and they need to be considered a unique kind of monster that does not exist elsewhere.
I suppose I was "inartful" in the way I phrased the existance of Art. 147 of Geneva.

[Jane]

Hey! Fred Thompson has signed up for the NRO post election cruise.

I'm so tempted....

[GMax]

No but the Superdelegates know how the oil drilling ban is playing with voters and if they see a slide in the polls they could stampede much like wildebeasts at the watering hole when an alligator shows up. Most of them are officeholders and many must get reelected. Some of course are in very safe districts or strong blue states, but certainly not all.

ABC seemed to be more of a Hill hang out than most of the others. Consequently, I think we have seen less bias out of ABC than the others. The scales fell from their eyes early, helped along by how Hill got treated by Obama and cohorts.

[clarice]

Bad, there isn't much else re the election to report on. They'll all turn on the Obamaafterburners as the election nears. Right now they have to mostly stick to jiggering polls and quoting anonymous staffers.

[MayBee]

Gibson, Couric, and Williams are ALL going with Obama on his big European trip next week.

They don't even travel with Bush. That is truly repulsive news-- although I trust Gibson to give a level view of it all.

Jane- oh, go! I would be so happy thinking of you and JMH meeting. I bet you'd have a blast.

[bad]

HOPE and CHANGE at the Democratic convention.

Imagine the lawsuits.

[Ranger]

cathy, I'll bet Bob's confusion on this point is widespread--again helped along by the Dem-MSM deliberate muddling on this score.

Posted by: clarice | July 16, 2008 at 01:53 PM

Actually, I think it is abject ignorance and a deliberate choice not to educate themselves on the part of the Dem-MSMs. One of the key reasons for Gitmo and refusing GC status to these people was to allow us to interogate them. One of the main reasons that the GC was created was to protect ligitimate combatants who became prisoners from being treated like criminals by their captors. One of the key components of that is a restriction on how military prisoners can be questioned. The Dem-MSM has taken those restrictions and used them as the base definision for interigation, claiming that anything that goes beyond the GC limits constitutes "torture". But, the GC limits are much stricter than globally recognized legitimate law enforcement techniques. One of the key reasons for not giving the Gitmo detainees EPW status was to give US forces the legal right to use law enforcement rather interigation techniques on them.

This is also why this entire trend on the lefts part of equating CG limits an the definision of torture is so dangerous. Once they succeed at that, they will then turn on law enforcement and demand that police abide by those limits as well, thus dramaticly reducing the effectiveness of civil policing in the country.

[BobS]

MayBee: You can't be implying that there would be some sort of favoritism by the news media, do you?

[jimmyk]

MS. PERINO: You need new legislation. And in addition to that, one thing that's just a detail point, the President's ban or executive branch ban goes through 2012.

I'm confused. Congress can ban something indefinitely without executive authorization? Or was this the result of actual legislation, signed by some nitwit president, from years ago that gives them this power? And why does she say the President's ban goes through 2012 shen he just lifted it?

I guess that's why she's the communications director and I'm not.

[clarice]

Fox now says it will release the rest of the tape of JJ's off the cuff comments on O. If the reports of the content (racial disparaging and making fun of his interracial background) are true, it is the end of Jackson's career. HURRAH

[Jane]

Rick,

I put up a general post about perqbusters. LUN

[clarice]

OT: Have you seen this?

http://www.jibjab.com/originals/time_for_some_campaignin>Bambi and John

[GMax]

If only you are right Clarice, I will for one being dancing a jig.

[glenda waggoner]

The "big 3" are going with Obama to make sure their message (obama/them) is clear and no mistakes are made. I betcha my monthly pension check, there will be man on the street interviews with each..."Tell me, aren't you glad evil Bush is being replaced by the Obamamessiah?" "We want your socialism,healthcare and Love" "Do you think John McCain is too old?" and on and on. Spielberg will direct.
By the way, what is LUN? SSS

[bgates]

That NYT poll headlines "Obama isn't closing divide on race" before noting that he leads among blacks 89 - 2. Byron York pointed out the most remarkable result from the polling: 17% of black respondents, and 8% of whites, think the United States of America is a majority-black country.

[bad]

awesome jibjab!!!

Great news about the Jessman. But I have my doubts he'll be gone for good. Some noxious weeds are impossible to eradicate.

Glenda, LUN means "link under name," click on it to get to referenced articles.

[PeterUK]

GMax,
As they said of the Mohel,"There is a divinity which shapes our ends".

[BobS]

Few figures in America have done more to cause divide that JJ.

[bgates]

AP manages to pull back and double down at the same time, with the latest on Plame. Bush claims privilege on documents including notes for "the 2003 State of the Union address, during which President Bush made the case for invading Iraq in part by saying Saddam Hussein was pursuing uranium ore to make a nuclear weapon. That information turned out to be wrong." AP isn't trying to say Niger was the only possible source, but they're also saying Saddam had no interest in acquiring uranium at all. Pathetic.

[centralcal]

It doesn't sound like Jesse said much in the portion to be released - per TVNewser. I does drop the N bomb, but not directed at Obama.

I am having JM Hanes envy right now (can't afford the cruise). Jane, if you go you need to take pictures for the rest of us! Hit will loan you his smiley faces if you need disguises!

[centralcal]

I does should be JJ does . . .

[cathyf]

The irony of the GC arguments about the war criminals at Guantanamo is that the GC is a treaty, a quid pro quo. In the GC everybody gives stuff up; everyone gets stuff.

-- Lawful combatants give up the strategic advantages of hiding behind civilians, and the traditional victor-in-battle rights to loot, rape and pillage the surrounding civilian population. In exchange, captured lawful combatants cannot be in any way punished for attempting to kill their enemies in battle, and cannot be forced to aid their captors in fighting against their comrades in any way -- including being interrogated. That's the trade -- keep your paws off the civilians, and if you get captured, name, rank and serial number is all you have to give.

-- Civilians also give up something in the trade. In exchange for the lawful combatants trying to keep them out of the fighting, the civilians give up their traditional rights to do whatever the hell they want, including looting battlefields and torture for the hell of it inflicted on captured/wounded enemy soldiers.

The folks blathering on about the Geneva Conventions almost always mean that they want the GC-privileges-for-lawful-combatants extended to unlawful combatants. Of course what the GC actually says about unlawful combatants is that, once you have satisfied the requirements to know that they really unlawful combatants, they are outside the GC-specified privileges of unlawful combatants.

In other words, the "respect the Geneva Convention" argument is, logically, that we can do whatever we want to them for whatever reason. Like torture the war criminals on pay-per-view. Because that's how quid pro quo works -- if you "demand" the "privileges" of being a medieval POW by violating the rules which make you a GC POW, well, be careful what you ask for...

[bad]

In other words, the "respect the Geneva Convention" argument is, logically, that we can do whatever we want to them for whatever reason.

Exactly

[glenda waggoner]

Thank you, bad!

[Enlightened]

No, it is politically correct for a Black Person to call another Black Person a N---er.
It is also PC for a Black Person to call a Half Black Person (or a half-rican)a N---er.

In the Politically Correct Handbook of Liberal Free Speech ( I can't seem to locate the exact Chapter/Verse - Jesse was adhering to the rules. No harm no foul.

The problem for the good Reverend is that he intimated violence towards a (Black)Presidential Candidate, and the even more foul act of Castratus in Furia. A below-the-belt act against a brother is a big no-no, in particular because Jesse was not Rapping at the time, which is of course a more acceptable forum to advocate violence against anyone and everyone.

So I think I got this one covered. ~S~

[Ralph L]

Anyone care to spell out PUMA?

[clarice]

Party Unity My Ass, Ralph.

[bad]

Some sad news from The Boston Herald:

Eat your heart out, Barack Obama. John Kerry won’t be on the stump for you this fall.

Think of the lost entertainment value...

[Topsecretk9]

OT for MayBee

As the criminal investigation of Eliot Spitzer’s paid sex life continues, some new details are out. He used campaign donors’ cash to rent two hotel rooms in Washington, DC at $400 a night. The hotel is the same one where he trysted the night away with a high-dollar hooker. The two hotel rooms are listed as “fundraising expenses”, and the Spitzer campaign says the spending’s legit.

[Ranger]

Party Unity My A$$

[Topsecretk9]

OT for MayBee

As the criminal investigation of Eliot Spitzer’s paid sex life continues, some new details are out. He used campaign donors’ cash to rent two hotel rooms in Washington, DC at $400 a night. The hotel is the same one where he trysted the night away with a high-dollar hooker. The two hotel rooms are listed as “fundraising expenses”, and the Spitzer campaign says the spending’s legit.