Straw Alert, Or, It Takes A Statist...

Larisa Alexandrovna tries her hand at rebutting Jonah Goldberg's essay on Obama's patriotism problem, and hilarity ensues.  First, here is a bit of Goldberg's essay, which is introduced as follows:

He sees an America in which the cup is half-empty. Is his America the same one most Americans think of as they wave flags and celebrate the Fourth of July?:

And a bit later, the main theme:

This sense that America is in need of fixing in order to be a great country points to Obama's real patriotism problem. And it's not Obama's alone.

Well, yes, as we wrote last February when snarking on Michelle Obama's new-found pride in her country, now that it has found Barack:

Well, lefties haven't been proud of this country since we stole it from the Indians Native Americans, so imagine my non-surprise.  Just don't question their patriotism!  They love America for what it might become, someday, if only the Great Unwashed would heed them.  But pride?

The dividing line is well marked, yet forewarned is not fore-armed; Ms. Alexandrovna tries to explain her love of country:

A mother of a heroin addict, for example, is critical of her child's drug abuse and wants it to stop. The mother wants only the best for her child. Does the mother's criticism of the child's actions in any way illustrate that she does not love her child? On the contrary, it is because the mother loves her child and is devoted to her child that she wants her child to be better, greater than he/she is.

Oh, beautiful - maybe Obama can work that into his next speech - "I love America the way a mother loves her crack-addicted child.  And when America stumbles out of rehab on January 20, 2009, a beautiful new day will dawn!"  OK, maybe not.

Ms. Alexandrovna then excerpts this from Goldberg to assure us that she has absolutely failed to catch his point:

"Definitions of patriotism proliferate, but in the American context patriotism must involve not only devotion to American texts (something that distinguishes our patriotism from European nationalism) but also an abiding belief in the inherent and enduring goodness of the American nation. We might need to change this or that policy or law, fix this or that problem, but at the end of the day the patriotic American believes that America is fundamentally good as it is."

To which she says replies:

In other words, your government can do no wrong. You must never doubt your government or question its ways.

Is that much straw a fire hazard?  Not at the Huffington Post!  In any case, my reaction is "What?  My government?" 

How many conservatives think "my government" is an obvious and immediate substitute for "my country"?  Hello, I don't see many hands!  But on the left, I think there are a fair number, starting with Barack himself, who seems to view the two as interchangeable - this was in Obama's victory speech as described by Goldberg:

"I am absolutely certain," he proclaimed upon clinching the Democratic nomination, "that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal." So wait, America never provided care for the sick or good jobs for the jobless until St. Barack arrived? That doesn't sound like the country most Americans think of when they wave their flags on the Fourth of July.

Oh, well.  Let the record note - in the darkest or silliest days of Richard Nixon, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton I was never ashamed or embarrassed to be an American and never doubted our country's greatness, although I was quite mortified by our President and the judgment of a slice of the electorate.  Vive la difference. 

We are always a great country.  As to whether we have always had and will always have a great government, well, not so much.  We do thank Ms. Alexandrovna for illustrating Goldberg's point.

Comments

[Jane]

"I love America the way a mother loves her crack-addicted child".

I see a bumper sticker in your future.

[clarice]

Doesn't this relate to the earlier thread on right and left vlogs--Now, people like this blogger make it too easy, don't they? There's only so much absurdity I can digest in one day.
Does Gutfeld still write for HuffPo? I liked his stuff. I like Kaus' and Summerby's and a handful of others, but mostly the sinosphere cannot come close to TM or Instapundit or Protein Wisdom or Iowahawk for wit and wisdom.

[Chris]

dailygut.com

[Porchlight]

How many conservatives think "my government" is an obvious and immediate substitute for "my country"?

The phrase "my government" induces slight nausea in me, but I've heard lefties use it. "That's not what I expect from my government" or "My government is failing me" type of thing.

[megapotamus]

A note from Hollywood: Randy Newman cobbled together a little song and did it for an international audience, "Now the leaders we've got are the worst we've had..." he says but goes on to address other nations and their people saying that, whatever mistakes and problems we have experienced we STILL are head above most everyone in the world and in history. I can live with this formulation. Anyone who wants to denounce Bush/Cheney/neocons whatever substantively can do it to me. They will hear many things they do not wish to, but we can communicate on open terms. Those fools who declare America is the blight of the world in utter ignorance of history and current events, not so much. The Bush Legacy, if worthy of the name, will not need spade-work and burnishing like the vaporous Clinton Legacy. Let those who spit on the government, spit away. The truth will out. Spit on the nation? "God damn America!"? You had better be sure of your audience. Damned sure.

[Der Hahn]

I don't think the problem is that they use 'government' and 'country' interchangeably.

The crack addict analogy fails because it places the government in a *superior* position to the country with the further assumption that some instantiations of government are bad 'parents' and some are good. Goldberg is observing properly that in the US the government is an inferior position to the country both as a people and as an ideal, and is the part that almost always requires correcting.

[Appalled]

Goldberg's article is simple, downright hackery. There's no evidence he bothered to read the Obama speech he dismisses. That speech addresses in specific terms precisely what Goldberg thought Obama's problem was:

As I got older, that gut instinct – that America is the greatest country on earth – would survive my growing awareness of our nation’s imperfections: it’s ongoing racial strife; the perversion of our political system laid bare during the Watergate hearings; the wrenching poverty of the Mississippi Delta and the hills of Appalachia. Not only because, in my mind, the joys of American life and culture, its vitality, its variety and its freedom, always outweighed its imperfections, but because I learned that what makes America great has never been its perfection but the belief that it can be made better. I came to understand that our revolution was waged for the sake of that belief – that we could be governed by laws, not men; that we could be equal in the eyes of those laws; that we could be free to say what we want and assemble with whomever we want and worship as we please; that we could have the right to pursue our individual dreams but the obligation to help our fellow citizens pursue theirs.

Of course, the response to Goldberg's hackery in the HuffPuff is also hackery -- because Ms. Imnotypinghernamea does not seem to have read Obama's speech either. (Either that, or she believes that Obama' patriotism is the rabid nationalism Hitler demanded, the Societs demanded, Franco demanded, etc, etc)

[narciso]

Besides laughing at Larissa's obviously
proven incompetence, I mean has she gotten anything right. I think she was one who said
that Valerie Plame was running the Iran nuclear weapons hunt, but that kind of proves my point. So America is a heroine addicted child, this may explain the Obama
fixation, but that's just projection or 'mirroring' on their part.

[Sue]

"I love America the way a mother loves her crack-addicted child"

Wouldn't that be I love America the way a crack addicted mother loves her crack addicted child? And, does this mean Obama is on crack?

[Jack is Back!]

Best point by Jonah is the distinction liberals, leftist and wrong-headed anti-american's have between "government" and "country". I never invoke "the government" when I salute the flag (now as a vet I can do that even in civvies, thanks to GWB). I see my "country" from sea to shining sea - its beauty, its great people of all colors, religions and political persuasions as well as its liberty, freedom and economic opportunity. I see the essence of a great people who have done great things. This is why I joined the armed forces out of college - my contribution to keeping it this way and defending it while it advanced, prospered and continued to give back all our senses could carry.

[bgates]

Appalled, Goldberg isn't dismissing one speech. He's dismissing the candidate as a whole. You should know better by now than to say, "I used to think Obama had a real problem with ____, until I heard this glorious speech."

[bgates]

And, does this mean Obama is on crack?
Sue, I've heard the rumor that Obama uses or deals crack, and I would like to address the idea that Obama uses or deals crack by saying I strongly doubt Obama uses or deals crack.

It's against Islam.

[bgates]

sorry.

[bgates]

Must have been all that crack.

[Sue]

bgates,

LOL.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

I wonder how many pro athletes are voting for Obama:

...Obama's twin tax proposals are to: 1) remove the "cap" from Social Security taxes for individuals earning over $250,000, a plateau Tiger [Woods] has long since surpassed in 2008, and 2) eliminate the "Bush" tax cuts, thereby raising the top marginal federal income tax rate to 39.6 percent.

This would increase Tiger's taxes on his [US Open] winner's check to about $776,000, a boost of almost $190,000. Instead of keeping 57 percent of his earnings and the government taking 43 percent, Tiger's federal and California taxes under the Obama proposals would amount to 57 percent of his winnings, leaving Tiger with just 43 percent.

Prefer baseball?

The New York Yankees have a 2008 payroll of about $208 million. Under the Obama proposals, the 24 Yankee players would be hit with an aggregate increase in federal income taxes of just over $22 million - with slugger Alex Rodriguez single-handedly getting dunned with $2.6 million in added federal taxes. The Yankees' owner would owe another $7.5 million of federal taxes.

[boris]

what makes America great has never been its perfection but the belief that it can be made better

This is in fact the attitude that Goldberg correctly addresses. That is NOT the same as saying America's greatness is not based on "perfection".

That such conflation comes easily to hopey changey folk is not surprising.

[Great Banana]

Obama says but because I learned that what makes America great has never been its perfection but the belief that it can be made better.

this, to me, is the main point. The left claims to love the country ONLY in the sense that they believe they can make it better or perfect it.

They never claim to love the country b/c of how great it already is, how much better it is than other countries, the great things the country has done for the world, etc. They only ever discuss the fact that they believe they can improve the country.

No conservative that I know of claims that America is perfect, or that there have not been blemishes on America in the past, or that things today can't be improved.

However, when discussing how and why we love america, we discuss its greatness, its freedom, the contributions it has made to improving the world, etc. We don't rely 100% on the fact that we think we can improve America the way that leftists do - as captured perfectly in the quote by Obama above.

Even when discussing his "love" for America, Obama MUST run down the laundry list of all the things he thinks are wrong with america. When does he ever talk about all of the great things about america or the great things america has done and continues to do for the world? When does any leftist? Never.

Again, they only talk about how they love America even though it is imperfect because they can fix it.

That, to me, is love of self. Not of the america that exists, but love of what you believe you can do to improve america. It's narcistic and arrogant at best.

[Soylent Red]

bgates

It's a well known fact that (if) Obama uses crack it is because (in that event) Obama is probably gay. Which would be strange (if) Obama is a Muslim.

/dog whistle

[Appalled]

bgates:

Goldberg's problem is the same as Justice Kennedy's problem in his decision mentioned in the previous thread -- he ignores a substantial piece of evidence contradicting his point that integrity demands he address. Obama's speech deals at length with how he defines patriotism. Jonah's piece is more concerned about how his wife and some of his supporters define it.

[Great Banana]

It is akin to Michelle Obama stating that she only became proud of america when and because there was a truly viable black candidate, her husband.

In her world-view, America was no good and had never doen anything good until that point. This is the same type of "patriotism" on display by many leftists.

[Soylent Red]

That, to me, is love of self. Not of the america that exists, but love of what you believe you can do to improve america. It's narcistic and arrogant at best.

There you go Banana.

For the left America is defined by what it does to conform to their ideas of perfection.

For the right America is defined by what we do to conform to its ideas of perfection.

Big, big difference.

[Great Banana]

Appalled,

Obama defines patriotism by listing all of the evils of America and stating he loves america becuase he can change it to be better.

In what definition is that patriotism? That's like saying I love my house b/c it is too small, has bad decor, needs new floors, but I can knock down some walls and add an addition on it and completely remodel it.

Show me a speech where Obama simply lauds american greatness and explains what he thinks is great about the country (aside from the fact that he thinks he can change it).

[bad]

I thank God every day that I was born in this country and my children are growing up in The United States of America. My heart swells with pride and gratitude every time I hear the National Anthem or say the Pledge of Allegiance. And it is still an honor and privilege to be a US citizen in spite of the fact that someone as unqualified as Barack Obama is a presumptive candidate for the office of President of the United States.

[Appalled]

Banana:

Try reading the speech which Jonah decided not to address.

[Great Banana]

I should state that I am not asserting that Obama is unpatriotic or that he does not love america.

I am pointing out - in agreement with Goldberg's piece - that to a leftist, America is not a great country, but can become one. They don't love America as it is, nor it's history, but the America they hope to create. In other words, they seem to love the concept of a future america that conforms to their standards (i.e., become a much more liberal country).

That's fine, but does not fit under what most people mean when tossing around terms such as "patriotism" or "love of country".

[Great Banana]

Apalled,

Try reading my comment, which quotes the speech and points out again, he states but because I learned that what makes America great has never been its perfection but the belief that it can be made better.

Goldberg does address this speech. As do I. You have not addressed any of my points. Citing me back to the speech again, which I addressed, does not change that Obama clearly articulates what he believes is bad with america and the one good thing he finds to state about america is that he believes he can change it.

Hardly a ringing endorsement of one's own country.

[Porchlight]

When does he ever talk about all of the great things about america or the great things america has done and continues to do for the world? When does any leftist? Never.

Great point. In the chunk of the speech Appalled quoted, Obama's praise of America is limited to "the joys of American life and culture, its vitality, its variety and its freedom." Note "freedom" is listed last; the praise here is basically cultural in nature, not political.

In other words, to leftists, America is a rotten country, only slightly redeemed by the fact that it managed to produce rock and roll and jazz, and even that was done by oppressed blacks, so America gets no credit for it.

[Great Banana]

I guess my point is simply the same as Goldberg's - liberals and conservatives have very different views on what "patriotism" is.

Liberals believe it means dissent and changing the country to be more liberal.

Conservatives believe it means recognizing the greatness of america as it is and the great things america has done (which is not same as saying never dissent or that america is perfect or that america does not have blemishes).

Also, I found Obama's speech to be pretty thin. For someone who is supposed to be such a great orator, he rarely says anything of substance.

[bad]

For someone who is supposed to be such a great orator, he rarely says anything of substance.

He is good at reading aloud.

[MikeS]

"I'm going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testimony to my patriotism."

Rather than parsing this statement with regard to whether Obama believes the country is great or not, I favor allowing the candidate the "benefit of the doubt." I'll accept that he meant to say "make this country greater."

Continuing in that vein, I have been listening to Sen. Obama's suggestions for making this country greater and giving them ample consideration.

It seems to me that, in nearly every instance, Obama's proposals (to make this country greater) do not concord with the will of the people as expressed in recent opinion polls. The people don't want the President to talk directly with tyrants and despots. The people do want to drill for oil in the homeland. The people don't want to withdraw immediately from Iraq. They don't want to increase taxes, and on and on.

It was Obama's suggestion that we should accept this as testimony to his patriotism.

[Soylent Red]

He is good at reading aloud.

It helps soothe the crack-addled child that is America to sleep, so that He can get some work done.

[BOATBUILDER]

It has always struck me that the attitude of many liberals towards this Country--its government institutions, in particular--is that of a spoiled teen-ager towards his or her parents. The parents are supposed to take care of your needs, finance your pleasures, make sure that none of your siblings gets too far ahead of you, make your bed (this could go on). They love their parents, but the parents are pretty out of it and have some hokey old-fashioned ideas. They are scandalized by what the parents have done in the past, and the parents are constantly letting them down. The parents of their friend down the street (or across the Atlantic) are so much cooler, smarter and classier.
The liberals should not be confused with the leftists, who have thought things through and want to kill the parents and take over.

[Appalled]

Porchlight:

Obama says this in his conclusion:

In the end, it may be this quality that best describes patriotism in my mind – not just a love of America in the abstract, but a very particular love for, and faith in, the American people. That is why our heart swells with pride at the sight of our flag; why we shed a tear as the lonely notes of Taps sound. For we know that the greatness of this country – its victories in war, its enormous wealth, its scientific and cultural achievements – all result from the energy and imagination of the American people; their toil, drive, struggle, restlessness, humor and quiet heroism.

That is the liberty we defend – the liberty of each of us to pursue our own dreams. That
is the equality we seek – not an equality of results, but the chance of every single one of us to make it if we try. That is the community we strive to build – one in which we trust in this sometimes messy democracy of ours, one in which we continue to insist that there is nothing we cannot do when we put our mind to it, one in which we see ourselves as part of a larger story, our own fates wrapped up in the fates of those who share allegiance to America’s happy and singular creed.

My guess is, that if I sat down and cooked something up, I would probably dispense some pretty language that is less communitarian in its thrust, and emphasizes individual liberty more. What are you going to do? The guy is a Democrat, and a liberal one. But to argue, as Goldberg does, that Obama's patriotsm is conditional, conflicts with what the man is saying.

Great Banana:

You are misreading, then. Obama does, in his Independence speech, say this is the greatest country on earth. (Goldberg cites to an appearence in Iowa, dating from who knows when.) He also says:

I believe those who attack America’s flaws without acknowledging the singular greatness of our ideals, and their proven capacity to inspire a better world, do not truly understand America.

[boris]

Iowa, dating from who knows when

So Beau Bama flip flops on the meaning of patriotism?

The point is that Beau is all over the map on this and says things that can be presented as agreeing with both sides. It is completely foolish to bash criticism of statments Beau has made by claiming he also says the opposite.

[Semanticleo]

"We are always a great country. As to whether we have always had and will always have a great government, well, not so much."

Agreed. But how does that square with:

"Never speak ill of another Republican"

If you close ranks around the Party how is the country served?

Suppression of debate doesn't move the ball toward the goal of 'perfection' so when amelioration of wrong decisions,(stealing the plains from native americans, internment of Japanese Americans in concentration camps) by dismissing them from recent history, it doesn't serve the country any better.

Those events reveal the strength of a country. It's not much of a test of greatness when everything is peachy.

9/11 was also a Crucible testing the convictions of our political and social mores.

Getting to the answers is crucial in our efforts to reach the written ideals of our National Documents.

Maybe Data Mining was not used on Americans
within our national borders, but we need to know for sure.

Call your Senators to support the Dodd, Feingold Leahy measure on Telcom immunity.

It's not needed to protect the Telcoms. They have indemnification. The ones needing protection are those who might have done something they don't want to be accountable for.

If you really think this is a great country,
you want to know what the government is doing to assure it's greatness.

[Appalled]

GB:

Obama's formulation is that part of the greatness of America as it is is its ability and willingness to evolve to something greater.

I don't think you or I would be happy in an America that has stagnated into exactly how things are now, though I'm sure we wuldn't agree on the best sort of future evolution.

[boris]

Besides the quote that has been selected to address is from the speech you linked.

[bgates]

Kennedy's problem was that he said something that is factually, irrefutably wrong. Goldberg did no such thing; he just refused to take a pretty speech from Barack Obama at face value. If we took Obama's words at face value, we would know that it is and isn't important to renegotiate Nafta; he can and can't sever ties with Wright; it is and isn't important to have preconditions for meeting with Iran, which does and doesn't pose a threat...why on earth would anyone consider words from that man "significant evidence" of anything besides the convenient position of the moment?

[Appalled]

boris:

I don't know. A politician is constantly talking in a campaign, and his less than precise, or weary phrasing, often finds its way to a local blog or a youtube. I'm willing to give him the benefit of a mispeak, on the grounds he was in his 52nd state at this point.

But, if he blames his earlier statement on an aide, beware of my wrath....

[boris]

The problem is the Beau Bama can be read as endorsing the idea that patriotism based on America as it could be is equivalent to patriotism based on America as it is.

I disagree. Further such disagreement is not reactionary opposition to improvement and suggesting otherwise is uncalled for.

[Appalled]

boris:

Actually, the quote I complained about was NOT in that speech. If it were, I would not be arguing the point.

bgates:

It takes a certain variety of hackery to acknowledge the existence of a speech, and refuse to address the arguments within it. Heck, if Goldberg had even roused himself to do what you did, before settling into his argument, I would have disagreed, but not used the dreaded term "hack".

[GMax]

That is isnt the aide that I knew!

[Porchlight]

Appalled,

But to argue, as Goldberg does, that Obama's patriotsm is conditional, conflicts with what the man is saying.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. I still think the implicit message in the speech is that the country's people are great in spite of its government; its culture is vibrant in spite of its government; its future is bright in spite of its government. I would characterize this as conditional praise.

I also did not see the part where he calls it the greatest country in the world, but I may have missed it.

[bad]

I would be more impressed with Obama's speech if it were one given before he had ambition for a national office or even earlier in his race against Hillary. To give this speech now seems pretty CYA.

[boris]

the quote I complained about

And the frakkin quote I quoted (and others) to butress Goldberg's point WAS in the frakkin speech.

[Appalled]

Boris:

In conclusion (because I have other things to do, dang it), Obama would likely reply to your last statement (after letting you know that he's not your Beaux):

None of us expect that arguments about patriotism will, or should, vanish entirely; after all, when we argue about patriotism, we are arguing about who we are as a country, and more importantly, who we should be.

[MikeS]

My question is whether Obama's brand of patriotism will make the country greater or worse.

An indication of that might be found in Obama's brand of school reform, or Obama's brand of subsidized housing in Chicago.

It seems to me that he hasn't learned to doubt his own infallibility.

[clarice]

I can't bear to listen to Brocko's drivel any more.
I keep getting this SNL type skit going thru my head of this empty suit blathering on about what is or isn't patriotism as he's in a rat cage in Hanoi with his bones being broken--Ludicrous little twit and it's beyond imagining that he's gotten so far. Truly.

[Sue]

That he has to give a speech on his patriotism is all you need to know about him.

[Soylent Red]

It seems to me that he hasn't learned to doubt his own infallibility.

Blasphemer!

[boris]

Obama would likely reply ...

So nice to have a semi-official Beau Bama spokesperson on site to defend Beau's obfuscating conflations by attacking any disagreement as simple, downright hackery.

[Rick Ballard]

Why would there be any expectation of coherence in an analysis of the incoherent? Senator Obama speaks with a forked tongue, yesterday, today and tomorrow.

MikeS has the gist - look at the great strides made by the Ayers/Obama Annenberg Challenge in the area of education and then look at the condition of the housing that Obama's chief benefactor provided to Obama's constiuents.

That's the measure of value to apply to Senator Obama's words.

[PeterUK]

"My country,half right or half wrong"!

[boris]

According to the semi-official Beau Bama spokesperson arguments about patriotism should not vanish but do reveal certain parties are simple, downright hacks that promote reactionary opposition to any improvement.

[Semanticleo]

BTW;

In case any wish to dismiss my comment with
a partisan flavor, let me go on the record;

I don't care what political stripe, religion, race, or creed any lawbreakers might claim,

if you're dirty, you should go away for a long, long time.

[Appalled]

Boris:

Ok, a couple of points:

1. I label Goldberg a hack because he chose to ignore Obama's Independence Mo. speech on patriotism when talking about Obama's problems with patriotism, while at the same time using that speech as an excuse to write his *cough* essay. Instead, he relies on a one-time statement to a TV reporter in Iowa from October of 2007. (Run the quote through Google and you'll find it quick enough) The definition of a hack is smeone who does not let annoying facts stand in the way of the article the writer wanted to write anyway.

2. I find your argument at 1:46PM a reasonable answer. I just don't agree.

2.

[GMax]

That he has to give a speech on his patriotism is all you need to know about him.

I found it double amusing that CNN put out a poll showing 29% of Independents thought Obama had a patriotism problem, but went to great length to dimiss it, saying it was "UNLIKELY" to be an issue in the Fall and that most of the folks who thought it was a problem were Republicans.

Now the CNN poll shows a race within the MOE so a statistical tie, and the block to be most fought over already has 29% saying something quite negative about you and its not likely to be an issue. Strange world that CNN inhabits.

[Thomas Collins]

Is it too much for most gliberals to say simply: "I love my country." Do gliberals really think that a simple profession of love and devotion to America is out of bounds? Do they think that a simple profession of love of country marks them as insufficiently hip, or post-modern, or bred from the finest prep schools and elite colleges? Do they have any clue that they can spout as they do because others have sweated and bled and been crippled and died out of a simple love for America? Would it be too much for B57O or Dickie Durbin or Babs Boxer or Nan Pelosi to give a simple stemwinder on love and devotion for America? Maybe once a year, on July 4th? They still would have the rest of the year for qualifiers.

I have one question for B57O. If there were one month in which every country in the world allowed unlimited immigration and emigration, where would people go? Can't you express unqualified love for a country that those not as lucky as you love from afar?

OK, I have more questions for B57O and his crew. Do you realize that many of us who abhor your snide, condescending, holier than thou manner might be as concerned and have worked as hard for social justice as you? That many of us whom you might describe as "clinging to religion" have done more for people in need through our churches than many of your Columbia IR pals and Harvard Law Review pals have ever thought of doing? That there is nothing the matter with Kansas, and that you might learn about leadership from those you blithely dismiss?

In any event, I won't end on a sour note at this time that we celebrate our independence. Rather, I would like to wish a Happy July 4th to all Americans, whether we be liberals, conservatives, moderates, straight, bi, multi-, gay, sad, Dems, GOPers, Greens, Muslims, Christians, Jews, pagans, or anything else. I love America and love being a part of our Great Experiment in liberty!

[Jane]

I actually understand where Obama and the Obamabots are on patriotism. I was in a similar place in '72 when I thought - no, I knew that Nixon would destroy the country, that Vietnam was all the bad things they said it was and most people were not well enough informed to "get it."

That was the last time I was obsessing over politics like I am today. I read everything and I was completely and utterly convinced that I saw and knew things the majority was clueless about. I thought about moving to Canada, I feared for my country.

And in my mind Watergate - which we knew full well about before the election even tho Woodward & Bernstein came after the election, proved me right. I also considered myself completely rational, and very well informed. And frankly I cannot think of one thing anyone could have done or said that would have changed my mind.

In penance I am now reading I am now reading "The Secret Plot to Make Ted Kennedy President: Inside the Real Watergate Conspiracy" to see what I missed.

The current election cycle is a little different because the left fell off the turnip truck in 2000 and then twisted reality into a box that fit their expectations. They have had 8 years of practice. It's no wonder Obama has been anointed.

I'm not quite sure what the cure is. Jimmy Carter was our revenge and he turned out to be a horrid president - but by then I was so over it I voted for Reagan. What changed for me was seeing just how unethical the left was willing to be to achieve their ends. Sadly the right at least at the elected level is not doing us any favors in that regard.

[Obammie Dearest]

No more heroin, or wire hangers!

[RichatUF]

bad-

I would be more impressed with Obama's speech if it were one given before he had ambition for a national office or even earlier in his race against Hillary.

I would have been more impressed if he hadn't given a poll-tested, focused-group set piece. His internal polling must be disastrous on the "patriotism" question if he had to give a major speech on it and send out his goons to knock McCain around a bit. No worries, he will give another speech, which will clearly state that "one can't love your country, but despise [dislike, hate] your government" or make another gaffe saying that criticism of him, or his policies, or the DNC is unpatriotic. At which point, the greatest statement on American Patriotism since Tocqueville penned "Democracy in America" will become "inoperative".

[RichatUF]

From the Appalled clip:

None of us expect that arguments about patriotism politics will, or should, vanish entirely; after all, when we argue about patriotism politics, we are arguing about who we are as a country, and more importantly, who we should be.

Wow, Obama is another progressive who would conflate patriotism and politics.

[boris]

label Goldberg a hack because he chose to ignore Obama's Independence Mo. speech on patriotism when talking about Obama's problems with patriotism

So is your label is based on the notion that Goldberg did not provide his readers with full disclosure on Obama's speech? That is your notion, your perception, and as easy to disagree with as my 1:46PM post. In fact from my POV Goldberg provides context to see the conflation and obsfucation in the Beau Bama patriotism speech.

IMO you see what you want to see in the hopey changey carp and go a little ballistic if someone points out that parts they see that you don't want to.

[boris]

another progressive who would conflate patriotism and politics

Good point. My guess another one the hopey changey folk don't want to see.

[kim]

I hope he keeps talking about patriotism in heated venues as his obvious internationalism oozes from his pores. The Flim Flam man in perspirant action.
=============================

[RichatUF]

boris-

I'm saving the AIPAC-treatment of his patriotism speech for those with better post-modernist cant detectors.

I'm surprised his fawning press didn't faint at the rally or break into Horst-Wessel-Lied...

[MikeS]

I hope he keeps talking about patriotism

My favorite is when he talks about not allowing oil drilling in the U.S., though his idea about stimulating the economy with more taxes and regulations is a close second.

[Rick Ballard]

OT

Rich take a look at this Xinhua headline and contrast it with

This would result in a temporary rise of spare capacity to above four million barrels a day in 2009 and 2010, before a retreat to minimal levels by 2013, the IEA estimated.

which is found 3/4 of the way down the article.

So Peak Oil is AGW's twin brother - it's really, really, really happening but first - the intermission.....

[Jane]

Fox is reporting that 3 Americans held by FARC in Columbia have been released.

McCain is in Columbia. The tie to his visit is unclear but being talked about.

[RichatUF]

Rick-

This would result in a temporary rise of spare capacity to above four million barrels a day in 2009 and 2010, before a retreat to minimal levels by 2013, the IEA estimated.

Classic. I heard a bit about that and then the usual droning on about "demand" from India and China. Noticed that they didn't seem to think much of the Brazilian industial program regarding offshore drilling either.

And since it is close to the July 6th, and this is a 3 day holiday, I'm curious if this rather sharp selloff the last couple of weeks might be cash raising for some nasty surprises. Maybe something is cooking up with the CFTC and FSA investigation that hasn't filtered out yet?

I'm starting to give up on my theory about state-based manipulation though because when I drone on about it I can start sounding like a truther (though it would be nice to have a better discription than "corruption" of what happened to the $35 billion missing from Iranian coffers last year, and a better explanation than "sanctions threat" of the $75 billion they moved out of Europe the last couple of weeks).

[hit and run]

Great Banana:
For someone who is supposed to be such a great orator, he rarely says anything of substance.

Bad:
He is good at reading aloud.

That's perfect. Finally a job for which Obama is qualified.

Obama is for universal pre-k.

He should be Story-Reader-in-Chief.

And what do you know, he seems to already be positioning himself for the job:

Obama will also provide affordable and high-quality child care to ease the burden on working families.

Good for you, Obama. It won't be easy watching all those kids yourself -- but I trust you will do you best.

[bad]

More from Hit's link:

Unlike other early childhood education plans, Obama's plan places key emphasis at early care and education for infants, which is essential for children to be ready to enter kindergarten.

My infants were usually up about 6am so their care and education started early but maybe I should have woke 'em up at 5. NOW he tells me.....

[Rick Ballard]

"I'm starting to give up on my theory about state-based manipulation"

I wouldn't. My bet is Russian/Iranian manipulation. They're the "no tomorrow" players in the game and holding back on production from the Caspian field last year just stinks to high heaven of state interference. The EIA forecast of a 100 kbd increase from 2010-2015 for Brazil is passing strange considering the amount of money that Brazil is dedicating to oil infrastructure. My bet is more on the order of a 2-4 mbd increase when the dust settles. They've ordered enough VLCCs to handle 2 mbd worth of exports already.

[clarice]

On a happier note I've begun work on the menu for the 4th and you're welcome:

Menu for the Fourth
Appetizers: Artichoke dip and quacamole with pita and tortilla chips
First:Dungeness crab salad and heirloom tomato, buffalo mozzarella and basil salad
Second: Marinated, grilled beef tenderloin
Chief Yamaguchi's marinated, grilled salmon with ponzu sauce on a bed of thin sliced cucumbers and videlia onions
Baked potato salad with cheese, chives, sour cream and bacon

spinach salad with blueberries and slivered almonds

Dessert: Mixed berry crisp with vanilla custard

[Soylent Red]

I see no mention of fried chicken and potato salad Clarice.

I can only conclude that you are not American.

;)

[Porchlight]

Fabulous, Clarice. A mixed berry crisp or cobbler is my favorite Fourth dessert - easy, holds well and the colors are perfect.

Beverages? All American wines I hope!

[centralcal]

Clarice: I love the first course! May copy it for my dinner tonight (just me, no party). Perfect for a hot summer supper.

[Porchlight]

Rather, I would like to wish a Happy July 4th to all Americans

Right back at ya, TC.

[glasater]

Your menu sounds fabulous Clarice, but couldn't you swap out those videlia onions for walla walla sweets?;-)

I know--videlias' are a wonderful onion and they sure are closer to your home.

[bad]

Yummy Clarice

[Jane]

Wow Clarice, what time should we show up?

[clarice]

2 p.m.--unless you want to come early and help me set it up--under the loggia if it's rainy --around the pool if it is not.
__
I don't think there are any walla walls here, I'm sorry to say.
Yup, no chicken either.
I usually serve steamed blue crab but they're in short supply and it's really hard on my husband to get to the wharf so early and then work on this all day and head out to the fireworks after. I substituted Dungeness crab salad which is also a lot less messy--you get the meat out, marinate it briefly in lemon juice, olive oil, salt and tabasco..drain it and mix with a small amount of mayo and serve on salad greens..A whole lot easier on the host and hostess and it makes it much easier to have a civilized meal without first laying down and then taking away the shells and paper for the crabs.
I love fruit crisps and cobblers in the summertime..(I always sneak in a little coriander and nutmeg , too.)

[clarice]

walla wallas---**********

[hit and run]

Eating a Clarice meal is still on my life-list.

We here are not quite as sophisticated.

The hit and run clan's menu for tonight (it's our night to cook for the family):

Appetizer: Beer (appetizers to be served beginning a noon)
Main Course: Fried shrimp, cocktail sauce, heavy on the horseradish.
Side dish: French fries and beer
Dessert: Beer

My record is 51 shrimp. It will fall tonight.

[Sue]

My record is 51 shrimp. It will fall tonight.

And so will you, my friend.

[bad]

yummy hit

[clarice]

Well, It's cardamon, not coriander that I slip into the crisp crust.
There is potato salad, Soylent--just an untraditional one.
And there will be wine ,beer, soft drinks and lemonade for the thirsty..
Your meal doesn;t look bad either, HIT.

Dry Dock on Longboat Key Fla has the best fried shrimp and grouper in the world..even one of the world's great cooks, Marcella Hazan swoons over their grouper. Just saying---every kind of foos can be ethereal when done right.

[boris]

Open season on foos now.

[boris]

I usually pack the foos into a bar then drop in hot oil before roasting over glowing wormwood embers.

[boris]

Goes good with lots of beer.

[Bill in AZ]

"I'm starting to give up on my theory about state-based manipulation"

I wouldn't. My bet is Russian/Iranian manipulation. They're the "no tomorrow" players in the game and holding back on production from the Caspian field last year just stinks to high heaven of state interference.

My college age daughter came up with the term "Slow Moving Terrorism". That's what this is - whoever is behind it. Terrorists struck the WTC to ruin our economy and bring us to our knees. $4+ per gallon gasoline is having the same effect, and as robust as the Bush economy has been in spite of everything, including all of the media lies over the last year, it is truly beginning to show the strain.

Libs - and their friends from around the world - have tried to spike our economy every election because they think it will finally usher in their party. They did a good job of straining it for the 2006 election, and it had the desired effect. They must have really studied that effort because they have redoubled their efforts this election cycle. We will eventually learn who and how, I have no doubt. But unless something changes soon in the oil market, libs will get their wish. They better hope it doesn't backfire bigtime on them.

[Soylent Red]

Bill:

There was an article this week, which I now can put my hands on, that one of the intellectual leadership of AQ has come up with a new strategy which has been published into a book. I don't know if there is a translation into English yet, but I will find out.

In a nutshell, the new strategy is to make the non-Islamic world into a "wilderness" of economic turmoil and fear, whilst the Islamic world enjoys relative peace and prosperity.

The idea is that non-Muslims will choose Islam to avoid living in fear, thus expanding the borders of the Islamic world.

So your college-age daughter is pretty perceptive.

If, BTW, any of you are interested in what the old strategy was, and for a pretty scary overview of exactly what is on these a-holes minds, I recommend The Management of Savagery

[Rick Ballard]

Don't forget to sign the kids up for their Obama Youth Greenshirts. Remember - Arbeit Macht Frei - and he did promise to make us work.

[Rick Ballard]

SR,

Plan B by Taheri. Not all that different from Plan A - just toned down a bit to reflect the numbers of virgins claimed over the past five years.

[Elliott]

Rather, I would like to wish a Happy July 4th to all Americans.

I would as well. Furthermore, those who celebrate not just fine words but also worthy deeds will note that today marks the anniversary of the Continental Congress' affirmative vote on independence.

[Porchlight]

today marks the anniversary of the Continental Congress' affirmative vote on independence.

Elliott,

Today is my younger brother's birthday. Because of the date and the fact that he appeared to have red hair when he was born, my parents named him Thomas Jefferson. He wasn't too fond of it growing up, but he's proud of it now.

[clarice]

Heh, Boris--fooD,,not foos, of course.

[Bill in AZ]

SR,
Thanks - She's in army ROTC right now, and is enjoying it. I've downloaded that paper. Glancing through, it looks interesting, though nothing most of us don't already know at some level having read just about anything there is to read on the subject. I also saw the article you mentioned, that Rick linked. I recall as I was reading that earlier this week thinking they'd best not set up a wilderness here, or they'll discover some real wilderness. AZ was settled back in the day by ornery folks who got run out of Texas.

[bad]

More on Plan B: LUN

The only Western power still capable of resisting is the United States, he believes. But that, too, will change once President Bush is gone.

NAJI makes it clear that the United States is the chief, if not the exclusive target, of jihad at this time.

The European Press has hinted that Bush will be missed. Too bad they didn't get it sooner.