Traditional Tuesday Space-Holder

Jonah Goldberg on Obama on national service is interesting (Obama's speech here).

It seems that rather than tossing around all this Federal money Barack should simply require that his "Dreams From My Father" be required reading across America.  That way, more of us could be just like him.

Comments

[clarice]

Indeed,What the country needs is a lot of community organizers who can piss away half a billion of Annenberg Money--subsidize slum landlords and support folks like Ayres and Wright.
That's the ticket..

[Charlie (Colorado)]

You know, I said this some time ago, and here it comes again: when a Democrat tells you the Evil Republicans are about to do some dread thing, that means the Democrats are about to do that very same dread thing and explain how someone made them do it.

Charlie Rangel says "reinstitute the draft."

The Republicans say "Hell, no. It's not efffective, is is expensive, and the Pentagon doesn't want it."

Now the Democrat candidate is telling us how our kids are to be drafted into doing national service. It's better, because it's "voluntary" .. as long as you don't want to graduate from high school or college, you don't have to.

[Appalled]

I'd settle for some decent civics classes. This looks like:

1. A draft;

2. A big unfunded mandate on local school systems, who are forced (yet again) to act outside of their core skills. Expect boondoggles.

3. A non-starter. Government unions are really going to HATE something like this.

[RichatUF]

Appalled-

Government unions are really going to HATE something like this.

Yep. That's why the Americorp program was so watered down when Clinton was putting it together. I'm sure BHO is going to send his cronies to AFSCME and SEIU and tell them its all politics and they've got nothing to worry about. Or even better, make the "volunteers" contribute to those organizations. Of all the bad ideas of the BHO campaign, this is the most offensive.

[clarice]

Fits right in with my Leni to Obama memo on the rally--If only someone would point me to hip hop lyrics I can Steal use as a template.

[centralcal]

Charlie - Obama wants more than a "draft." Over at Little Green Footballs they've noted this:

“We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set,” he said Wednesday. “We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded.”

Some of Barry O's lunatic ideas are getting pretty scary!

[Jane]

when a Democrat tells you the Evil Republicans are about to do some dread thing, that means the Democrats are about to do that very same dread thing and explain how someone made them do it.

I've always believed that the thing most people start screaming about in others is the thing they are most guilty of. And 90% of the time I'm right.

[bgates]

If only someone would point me to hip hop lyrics
I couldn't live with myself if I helped someone so genteel read that kind of...carp.

Your request reminds me that the guy who put together that first creepy celebrity Obamaton video is best known for a song called "Let's Get Retarded."

[Jane]

I think I just heard this on Fox News (playing in the background) from one of our Generals on the ground there:

AL QAEDA HAS BEEN DEFEATED IN IRAQ

I consider that worth celebrating.

[centralcal]

Clarice - usually hip hop lyrics contain ho, mother, . . .

well, pretty much not too many words.

[bgates]

We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded.
We can call them "shield squadrons". They could all swear a loyalty oath to the Constitution - or, since Obama's a well-known Constitutional law scholar, they could just swear loyalty to him personally, same difference.

[PeterUK]

"“Your body belongs to the nation! Your body belongs to the Führer! You have the duty to be healthy!”

[Porchlight]

So Obama wants a centralized national service program to supplant the zillion mostly-local volunteer programs that are already out there and to which Americans already robustly contribute. Brilliant. Take something America is great at (volunteerism) and make it sound like we suck at it. Then propose a new federal mandate to fix what isn't broken, and threaten to punish anyone who doesn't cooperate by cutting off funding.

Hope and Change. What a disaster.

[RichatUF]

bgates-

Your request reminds me that the guy who put together that first creepy celebrity Obamaton video is best known for a song called "Let's Get Retarded."

That creepy retard was Will. I. Am.

[clarice]

Yipes--I already wrote the piece Iwas thinking of before I saw this:
"Charlie - Obama wants more than a "draft." Over at Little Green Footballs they've noted this:

“We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set,” he said Wednesday. “We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded.”

The longer I watch this, the more I think McCain is wisely playing the get out of the way and let that young dope kill himself game.

[jm hanes]

Lordy, TM! Every time I end up at the Obama website I feel like I've stumbled into The Amateur Hour. For those who choose not to squander their time in such fashion, here's how the Obama platform defines The Problem that needs fixing:

Americans Not Asked to Serve After 9/11: President Bush squandered an opportunity to mobilize the American people following 9/11 when he asked Americans only to go shopping.
[How does this represent a current problem you ask? Allow us to translate: Bush squandered an opportunity to organize the American people.]

Insufficient Federal Support for Service: While more than 500,000 people have served in AmeriCorps, the program turns away tens of thousands of applicants a year because of limited funding.
[Translation: Our GOTV efforts need more people whose primary task is registering voters door-to-door. We could just bring ACORN into the federal fold, of course, but it sounds better to call such folks AmeriCorps volunteers.]

Need for More R&D in Nonprofit Sector: Research and development in the nonprofit sector is limited and there is a disconnect between charitable foundations that can fund innovation and the organizations on the ground that can test new concepts and bring them to scale.
[Translation: What those NGO's clearly need is government sponsorship!]

It's all part of the new, improved, cradle to grave coverage coming soon from your Uncle Sam.

[clarice]

There is nothing socialists hate more than non-state sponsored eelymosynary operations.I think because the recipients don't feel obligated to thank the state for relief and the govt has no control over what they do.

[clarice]

An aside--competition for top colleges is very high around here and parents are rich and clever and dream up carp for their kids to do to look good to admissions officers. Many of these parents have friends at the WaPo. At this time of year the papers regularly carry stories about little Richie Rich who raised funds to create solar powered night lights for the unfortunates in Ceylon or something.
What will they and the admissions officers do when all the kids are doing volunteer work?
They're already trashing standardized tests.
So no matter how hard the kids work and how capable they are, it hardly matters.

[MayBee]

* Expand Service-Learning in Our Nation's Schools: Obama will set a goal that all middle and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year. He will develop national guidelines for service- learning and will give schools better tools both to develop programs and to document student experience. Green Job Corps: Obama will create an energy-focused youth jobs program to provide disadvantaged youth with service opportunities weatherizing buildings and getting practical experience in fast-growing career fields.

I highly object to the idea that HS students be required to provide community service to graduate, even though I encourage my own kids to do so. I'd much rather he require their parents to volunteer.
The problem I've seen with other "youth jobs programs" (my mother used to supervise several) is that you've got kids with little work ethic that can't be fired from their jobs, and you have stuff that needs to be done by people that actually show up, so the participants end up doing make work things and driving everyone crazy.
* Expand YouthBuild Program: Obama will expand the YouthBuild program, which gives disadvantaged young people the chance to complete their high school education, learn valuable skills and build affordable housing in their communities. He will grow the program so that 50,000 low-income young people a year a chance to learn construction job skills and complete high school.

What do the unions say about this?
* Require 100 Hours of Service in College: Obama will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year.

That's $40/hour. Again, I'm against the requirement. Most employers want to see extra curricular activity from college grads- let that be the incentive (if doing it because you want to isn't enough).
* Promote College Serve-Study: Obama will ensure that at least 25 percent of College Work-Study funds are used to support public service opportunities instead of jobs in dining halls and libraries.

Why are jobs in university dining halls and libraries not considered service opportunities? It seems to me colleges will end up having to hire additional people to cover the loss of work-study students.

[MayBee]

My formatting skills are still on vacation, apparently.

[Porchlight]

stories about little Richie Rich who raised funds to create solar powered night lights for the unfortunates in Ceylon or something

Clarice, my alma mater puts out a brochure every year highlighting the entering freshman class, and a friend and I always laugh at the kid who gave bassoon lessons to a starving Applachian village, or the one who singlehandedly saved an entire marine species from the maw of the Nova Scotian fishing industry, or whatever. Mandatory Service For Barack isn't going to shine as brightly on those applications, that's for sure. They may have to stat looking at those SAT scores again.

[bgates]

Why are jobs in university dining halls and libraries not considered service opportunities?
Library jobs are out because those people do nothing but collect names to send to the FBI per the Patriot Act, and dining hall jobs are no good because we can't just eat as much as we want and just expect that other countries are going to say OK.

[Porchlight]

MayBee,

Lots of luck to the person on campus who gets to coordinate service hours. College students (even work-study ones) are notorious for being available about 5 hours a week, and then only in the afternoons from 3-4. Putting a schedule together to actually get anything done is going to be a nightmare.

Next challenge: finding enough community work for several thousand students in a town the size of, say, Storrs, CT. Can they do work through churches? Or will the ACLU sue to keep it all secular?

[Rick Ballard]

Porchlight,

I forsee a focus on completing the service requirements in the fall of even numbered years. Voter registration and knock and drag efforts will count 2 for 1 in Dem districts and 4 for 1 in marginal Rep districts.

[Bill in AZ]

"We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded."

Where's he been - this was taken care of back in 1791 by folks a whole lot smarter than him:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

[hit and run]

Charlie:
You know, I said this some time ago, and here it comes again: when a Democrat tells you the Evil Republicans are about to do some dread thing, that means the Democrats are about to do that very same dread thing and explain how someone made them do it.

Totally. Very similar of course to the whole "They told me that if George W. Bush were re-elected..." shtick from Glenn.

[bgates]

Bill, what about the "well funded" part? Maybe now that it turns out the Second Amendment is part of the Constitution after all, Obama wants to subsidize gun purchases?

[Porchlight]

Voter registration and knock and drag efforts will count 2 for 1 in Dem districts and 4 for 1 in marginal Rep districts.

No can do; carbon footprint of shuffling students around town is way too big. The kids can just spend their hours looking up addresses online and filling out registration cards. ACORN will take it from there.

[clarice]

JOM needs to do a field trip to the Obama rally.

[Bill in AZ]

The "well funded" part? For folks who like guns, it is already voluntarily well-funded. I spend a fair amount every year on guns and ammo (got enough bibles). No thanks on the Obama guvmint subsidizing - they would manage to restrict us to rusty old flintlocks.

[Michelle Obama]

Well why stop at 1-- hours a year when you can work 24/7 for the greater good? The politburo sees this as a way to end the greedy culture of whites and their lackeys the Jews.

[Rick Ballard]

I'm not going. Not even if offered the rank of Obamasturmbannführer. Besides, I'm a little old to be joining the Obama Jugend.

[Appalled]

clarice:

I have this viion of a guy sitting with his arms folded muttering "Please don't" while everyone around him is standing up and hollaring "Yes, we can." It's like sending TM off to watch a game in Fenway.

[glenda waggoner]

Loved this from Moe Lane @ REDSTATE-The left and the media are suffering from "premature infatuation" Re:Obama....There are so many more metaphors to go before November! Oh-Clarice,
Hit, DOT (where is OT?)-HELP!

[Karl]

It is far from clear that the public sector unions will object to a plan to enrich groups like ACORN. I wouldn't be surprised if they formed groups to get in on it.

[clarice]

Rick,You vill come vit me. AT will soon post my bit--a memo from Ms Leni R to Obama about the rally.

[Cecil Turner]

Obamasturmbannführer

Dude, warn me next time. I still got beer fizzling in the nose, and it ain't exactly comfortable.

[LindaK]

Two weeks ago, my son and 750 other Boy Scouts went to George Washington and Jefferson National parks in Goshen, VA to help that National Forest Service rebuild, clear and reroute trails. The BSA is doing the same thing at four other parks throughout the US this summer. Why do we need to nationalize successful and generous voluntary service. The operative word is nationalize. Don't the BO supporters realize that he's preaching communism?

[Porchlight]

Every time I see "Jugend" in proximity to Obama's name, my brain reads it as "Jugears."

Is that a thoughtcrime?

[Rick Ballard]

"Is that a thoughtcrime?"

It will be. Do you like caribou jerky? How about fried seal fat? Remember, the first month in the ANWR Protection Battalions is the toughest. After you've proven your ability to survive on your own for a month they let you into the communal dining igloo.

[jm hanes]

In other news you didn't need to know, John Kerry tells us John McCain is no longer the man he knew, and Obama tells Hispanics that when "a nursing mother is torn away from her baby by an immigration raid," we don't just have a problem, Houston! Nursing mothers for Obama! Because no identity group is too small for a pander.

[clarice]

Illegal alien nursing mothers ..it's a huge untapped tranche to which to pander.

[Jane]

Porchlight - OT,

You know what struck me so far about Clarence Thomas Book? He sounds a lot like Michelle Obama when he talks about Yale.

Did you notice that?

[PeterUK]

Mr Ballard,
The uniforms have been designed

[clarice]

It seems to me that was the thought of so many AA programs..Bring in young blacks and hispanics and radicalize them.

[RichatUF]

I thought this stuff regarding Americorp and the Peace Corps soundedfamiliar. The NYT was unimpressed.

Also, Karl when the Clinton Administration was putting the program together, it was supposed to be much more expanisve and the catagories of jobs and funded slots were whittled down and the benefits of service were also cut back (some student loan forgiveness provisons were scaled back).

[Porchlight]

Jane,

Yes, I did notice that. But I think his position is more honest in that he states outright that he believed his degree was devalued because people assumed he had benefited from affirmative action. It's one of the reasons he disagrees with AA on principle.

Michelle won't go that far. She's never admitted that she believes she was accepted to Princeton because of AA (and her brother's athetic success), even though she appears resentful about it. And I'm pretty sure she doesn't take any sort of stand against AA policies generally.

Does that make sense?

[Porchlight]

Let me clarify that - I don't think Thomas *actually* believes his degree was devalued because of AA - just that people saw it that way, and that's why he thinks he had such a hard time finding a job after Yale.

[kim]

Why didn't Bill Ayers give Obama a clue what drafting them does to college students? All that education, for what?
=================================

[jm hanes]

Karl:

When, as you've also pointed out, you see Obama pushing faith based initiative buttons too, I'm just awed by the nonpartisan tolerance Obama inspires in the folks who, just yesterday it seems, were issuing dire warnings about theocracy on the march.

[Jane]

Yes, I did notice that. But I think his position is more honest in that he states outright that he believed his degree was devalued because people assumed he had benefited from affirmative action. It's one of the reasons he disagrees with AA on principle.

I think position is evolving. (He's meeting with Jack Danforth as I type this). Michelle seemed to say that AA was a ruse, it wasn't integration, she was just a black person when she arrived and the same old black person when she left and Princeton didn't learn a damn thing for having her there. Thomas seems to believe that a similar fraud was perpetuated at Yale. Obama resents it because she wasn't given anything, and Thomas resents it because it looks like he was given everything. At least those are my early thoughts.

So I think we are on the same page more or less.

And when you think about it, that in a lot of ways are both sides of the AA coin.

[GMax]

Do you like caribou jerky?

Trust me brother, its not going to be thought of as a joke to make fun of the porcupine caribou in the next administration! Thank god the oceans have stopped rising, otherwise the caribou would all drown.

[kim]

Who needs a national service entity when you can quell the rising tide with hopeful words? I mean, this Obama dude, he underestimates himself. Yes, yes he does.
=======================

[Tina]

The great one has convinced the Mayor of Berlin to permit him to give his speech where he wanted to:

Barack Obama to be granted JFK moment with Brandenburg Gate speech (Source telegraph.UK.com)

All hail the great obamasiah.

[Porchlight]

And when you think about it, that in a lot of ways are both sides of the AA coin.

I'd agree with that. Although I'm not sure Michelle has fully come to terms with the idea that she wasn't admitted solely on her own merit. But I may be misreading, or missing something.

[Topsecretk9]

President Bush squandered an opportunity to mobilize the American people following 9/11 when he asked Americans only to go shopping.

Really? Bush didn't make calls for American's to serve?

I guess Obama was out shopping

We're also a nation awakened to service and citizenship and compassion...

... We have entered a new era, and this new era requires new responsibilities, both for the government and for our people...

... And something even more profound is happening across our country. The enormity of this tragedy has caused many Americans to focus on the things that have not changed, the things that matter most in life: our faith, our love for family and friends, our commitment to our country and to our freedoms and to our principles.

In my inaugural address, I asked our citizens to serve their nation, beginning with their neighbors. This fall I had planned a new initiative called Communities of Character, designed to spark a rebirth of citizenship and character and service. The events of September the 11th have caused that initiative to happen on its own in ways we could never have imagined.

...And we can do more.

Since September the 11th, many Americans, especially young Americans, are rethinking their career choices. They are being drawn to careers of service as police or firemen, emergency health workers, teachers, counselors or in the military. And this is good for America.

Many ask, "What can I do to help in our fight?'' The answer is simple. All of us can become a September the 11th volunteer by making a commitment to service in our own communities. So you can serve your country by tutoring or mentoring a child, comforting the afflicted, housing those in need of shelter and a home.

You can participate in your neighborhood watch or Crimestoppers. You can become a volunteer
in a hospital, emergency medical, fire or rescue unit. You can support our troops in the field and, just as importantly, support their families here at home by becoming active in the USO or groups
in communities near our military installations.

We also will encourage service to country by creating new opportunities within the AmeriCorps and Senior Corps programs for public safety and public health efforts.

We will ask state and local officials to create a new modern civil defense service, similar to
local volunteer fire departments, to respond to local emergencies when the manpower of
governments is stretched thin.

We will find ways to train and mobilize more volunteers to help when rescue and health
emergencies arise.

Americans have a lot to offer, so I've created a task force to develop additional ways people can get directly involved in this war effort, by making our homes and neighborhoods andschools and workplaces safer.

And I call on all Americans to serve by bettering our communities and thereby defy and defeat the terrorists.

... Ours is a wonderful nation full of kind and loving people, people of faith who want freedom and
opportunity for people everywhere. One way to defeat terrorism is to show the world the true
values of America through the gathering momentum of a million acts of responsibility and
decency and service.

I take Obama's service proposal as just another was to grow the federal government.

http://www.september11news.com/PresidentBushAtlanta.htm

[Pofarmer]

“We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set,” he said Wednesday. “We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded.”

A private army for the president is a little----unsettling.

[Jane]

Although I'm not sure Michelle has fully come to terms with the idea that she wasn't admitted solely on her own merit. But I may be misreading, or missing something.

I care so little about what MO thinks I can't even tell you. But I was struck by what sounded like similar complaints. That made me uncomfortable because it forced me to take MO more seriously on that issue than I ever would be inclined to.

I might even go so far as to question my objectivity.

[Rick Ballard]

You haf a problem with the SturmAbteilung, Herr Pofarmer?

[bgates]

Barack Obama to be granted JFK moment with Brandenburg Gate speech
Mr Putin:
Rebuild This Wall!

[RichatUF]

Here is the link for Tina's article. Nice to know the German's aren't above interfering with our election. What gives?

[Porchlight]

I might even go so far as to question my objectivity.

For goodness sakes, please don't do that. You're on the right track I think. I view the chief difference as: Michelle believed she was entitled (whether or not she was satisfied with the results of the entitlement); Thomas wanted to be admitted, educated and hired on his own merit. Pretty much exactly as you stated it.

[Barney Frank]

President Bush squandered an opportunity to mobilize the American people following 9/11 when he asked Americans only to go shopping.

I'm confused; I thought he was McChimpyhitlerburton because he mobilized Americans to fight and die on foreign soil.
Apparently if he had kept the troops at home and put the nation on a total midnight basketball footing via AmeriKKKorps Osama could have been pacified with a sweet jump hook.

[Topsecretk9]

Barney

see Bush's Atlanta speech 2 months after 9-11 @

Posted by: Topsecretk9 | July 08, 2008 at 07:15 PM

He ended the speech:

We cannot know every turn this battle will take, yet we know our cause is just and our ultimate victory is assured. We will no doubt face new challenges, but we have our marching orders.

My fellow Americans, let's roll.

That Obama would knowingly lie about Bush saying he only asked American's to shop is indication that Obama is just another lying democrat not willing to change their dishonest ways.

[Pofarmer]

My fellow Americans, let's roll.

I miss that George Bush.

Herr, Ballard, Nein, I haf no problems.

[Barney Frank]

Thanks Tops, but I think you're misunderstanding Barry. He doesn't mean Bush didn't mobilize America, he means he didn't mobilize the correct America.
He didn't want Bush to mobilize us for war but for a domestic jamboree of community organization; the only thing he has ever actually done in his life, even if not very well.
Osama knocks down the twin towers?
By God, we'll erect a hundred boarded up tenements to take their place and draft thousands of high schoolers and ACORN nuts to patrol them. Presto, threat eliminated. At least that is what he appears, incredibly, to be saying.

[Jane]

For goodness sakes, please don't do that. You're on the right track I think. I view the chief difference as: Michelle believed she was entitled (whether or not she was satisfied with the results of the entitlement); Thomas wanted to be admitted, educated and hired on his own merit. Pretty much exactly as you stated it.

I agree, but I think we are ignoring a point that I'm not quite sure I understand yet. I don't know if the problem is institutional racism, or Ivy league racism, or AA racism or cultural or what.

You know I always found allegations of people trying to undermine women in my generation as pretty laughable - because at the time there was such a drive to make women equal. It made things easy at least comparably. We were for a while, more than equal. People wanted to hire women. And once you got hired all you had to do was work hard. Pretty simple all things considered.

Has the same been true for blacks, or is there another layer going on? Now my theory has always been that a lot of the problem is cultural. People who think they are entitled don't get anywhere, whether they are women or blacks. But it seems like there was a third layer for Thomas which as a woman I didn't experience or perhaps didn't notice.

Part of it is that he started further back. He's maybe 6 years older than me, and like him I grew up poor. But growing up poor for me didn't mean having an outhouse and sleeping in a chair. My single mother was a teacher not a maid. I was exposed to a much bigger world than he was. So it seems like poor blacks had a lot further to come than poor whites. That makes his accomplishments so much the greater.

[jm hanes]

"Barack Obama to be granted JFK moment with Brandenburg Gate speech."

Is it too much to hope that his teleprompter will go on the fritz, so to speak? The hubris on display is, like, gobsmacking.

[Elliott]

Is that a thoughtcrime?

Since I think the term "flip-flop" has had its day in the sun (or should that be its day at the beach?), I've been considering referring to Obama's fine tuning of various positions as "mutations," but I too expect that will simply win me the privilege of foraging along the north slope.

Mr Putin:
Rebuild This Wall!

How about "Medvedev?" I expect our great orator will want his imitation to be as close as possible.

I was thinking Obama could say how fortunate he feels to have been born in America, where his efforts to get dreadful housing projects built marked him not as a run of the mill apparatchik but as a transcendent leader. However, I don't think I'll beat my dad's line.

[Topsecretk9]

Barney

I understand that, but in Bush's speech he called on people to serve and volunteer right down to the neighborhood, just like Obama is, and not just go out and shop.

[jm hanes]

Mr. Medvedev, You've got a friend!

'Fraid I can't beat your dad either, Elliott.

[Porchlight]

So it seems like poor blacks had a lot further to come than poor whites. That makes his accomplishments so much the greater.

Without a doubt. I don't mean to downplay anyone's experience of institutional racism, only to contrast Thomas' attitude with that of Michelle Obama (who grew up middle class and whose brother had already succeeded at her school of choice. No one in Thomas' family had come anywhere near that level of income or education). They seem to have completely different views on how things ought to be.

Think about instilled values, too. Thomas' grandfather's self-made life was about as far from Michelle's father's Daley machine patronage job as can be imagined. He taught Thomas that no one would give him anything - he would have to work for it all. Whereas Michelle witnessed the example of "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours."

Also the difference between the Southern black experience and the Northern, and the rural/urban contrast, and the time periods in question. It's really a fascinating comparison you've brought up, Jane - it deserves longer treatment.

[Jane]

Porchlight,

The whole thing is making me feel naive. I've always been stuck on values. No matter where you start if you are brought up to believe in hard work, you can make it - with rare exception. And the fact that it is tough just makes the success taste so much sweeter.

Maybe what is bugging me is how depressing it all sounds to me hearing Thomas tell it - I don't think of that struggle that way. I think struggle as long as it is not endless is rewarding as hell.

Hopefully I'll get to that part in another chapter.

[Porchlight]

I think you will, later in the book. It took him a long time to get to where he could really absorb the lessons he was taught. I think there was still heavy drinking in the picture, too, at the point where you are in the book.

Slightly OT, how did you like John Bolton's appearance? (not to spoil it for those who haven't read the book)

[Jane]

I wanted to ask you if that was "our John Bolton". Apparently so. I'm listening to the book so I wasn't sure I got the name right until it was repeated later.

I thought that was great. I hope they are still friends.

I see myself having to purchase extra gas in the next week or so, so I can listen more. It really has grown on me.

[Porchlight]

I loved it too. I used to spend a lot of time in New Haven so I enjoyed picturing them hanging out there.

A nice long drive on some scenic back roads might be a pleasant (if slightly expensive) way to spend some time listening...

[Elroy Jetson]

Porchlight at 3:14 PM.
That was brilliant. You knocked it out of the park.
He wants to fix things that aren't broken and leave things alone (high energy costs) that badly need fixing.

[MayBee]

If the college benefit is not mandatory, it is a pretty extraordinary offer. A $4,000 fully refundable tax credit for 100 hours of service is remarkable.** I wonder if it would be available to every student, or if you would need to be below a certain income level to qualify.
It seems a very expensive proposition for the government.

**In re-reading, it may be $4,000 total for 100 hours/year or 400-500 hours total.
It says: This fully refundable credit will ensure that the first $4,000
of a college education is completely free for most Americans, and

[Topsecretk9]

I see a sort of sneak around type affirmative action in Obama's required community service. Jonah Goldberg is sort of right in his servitude argument. American's by nature serve and GIVE huge, time and time again, and were not so rewarded for our overwhelming serving and giving are we?

Even the left in this country doesn't recognize the giving and service by American's that's historically massive compared to other countries , they ignore and criticize it. But we still do it and it's related to the sort of American dream. If I WORK hard I have a CHANCE at it!

There are kids that perform community service independently with no reward guaranteed for years and that it's not appreciated by the likes of Obama and the left is sad.

An Eagle Scout has by virtue of the rank performed HOURS of community service over time as one can not advance in scouts without community service hours(and of course the final community project required for the Eagle rank designation)

I have no problem rewarding students who take part in community service, but REQUIRING community service seems to me an attempt force UN-communiity service minded into it for their own good.

Is it a servitude of certain segments of the population who aren't service minded instead of fostering their minds? A denial of the segment tradition? An acknowledgment of that certain segments lack so there needs to be an work around, a end run, an assist?

Forcing individuals always brews resentment too.

Tangent - with the reenlistment ceremony in Baghdad, ask yourself why it's ALWAYS a democrat - Charles Rangle - who is agitating for a draft?

[kim]

It always seem to me that Rangel was just using the proposed draft as a means to point up Bush's misuse and overextension of the military. Kerry, however, and now Obama, really intend to enslave the young for indoctrination camp.
====================================

[daddy]

Previously I had been disturbed by Obama's call for mandatory civic service by America's youth, but after 5 pints of Guinness in Hong Kong I now view his proposal in a different light. Maybe if we're really lucky the first hour of that high-schooler's mandated 50 hours of civil service will be devoted to learning how to be part of a State's Militia. Then, having now become part of a "well regulated militia", Congress won't be able to make any stupid rules infringing on the students Second Ammendment rights, and the remaining 49 hours of Obama's planned community service will be used in learning how to properly handle and fire the weapon. If that's what the candidate had in mind, perhaps I'll consider voting for him.

Do any of you lawyers out there think individual States would be able to mandate specific courses in responsible gun use as their citizen's compulsery service under the Obama plan?