Wind Sprints

Good luck with this:

Short bursts of exercise can benefit heart health just as much as tedious endurance training, a new study suggests.

The research, published in the American Journal of Physiology — Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative Physiology, is good news for time-strapped exercisers. It supports the notion that people who engage in brief, high-intensity forms of exercise reap the same cardiovascular health benefits as those who exercise at moderate intensity for a longer period of time.

Researchers at McMaster University in Canada recruited 20 healthy men and women whose average age was 23. All of the study subjects rode stationary bikes. Some exercised five days a week, doing 40 to 60 minutes of moderate-intensity cycling. Others did four to six sets of 30-second sprints on the cycle, allowing 4.5 minutes of recovery time between sets; their total exercise time was about 15 to 25 minutes just three days a week.

After six weeks, the researchers found that the intense sprint interval training improved the structure and function of arteries as much as traditional, longer endurance exercise.

I foresee a bunch of middle-aged weekend warriors keeling over after a hard 220.  Starting with me.  When I was younger and much more foolish I actualy enjoyed wind sprints and interval training as a diverting excursion to a different destination in the wide world of pain.  No more.

HERE WE GO:  The Adult Presidential Physical Fitness Test.  No separate data entry was necessary asking whether entrants are Type A.

Comments

[kim]

I agree. Not particularly good advice for the untrained. Work up to it slowly.
===================

[richard mcenroe]

Are the short bursts of exercise supposed to end with that funny popping feeling in my chest?

[Thomas Collins]

So, ahem, doing the, ahem, nasty without, ahem, foreplay, promotes health as well as, ahem, a long drawn out, ahem, erotic session? Is that the upshot of this research?

[Jane]

LOL - Thomas. ( was gonna say that must have been written by a man if that's what it means, then I thought - gee that doesn't sound all that bad)

[Daddy]

TM,
Not wishing to see elder guy's and gal's flopping down dead at the track like carp in their death throes, allow me instead to offer an alternative.
The Football fans among us will recall how in January of 1969 the most famous athlete in the world, for a brief New York Minute, was Willie Joe Namath. That bragadocious, nightclubing Jets quarterback, with the amazing quick release and the rebuilt geriatric knees, maintained that instead of windsprints, the proper pregame exercise to get ones blood running was a quick shag in the morning with a Playboy Bunny or some Eastern or Braniff Airlines Flight Stewardess (yes, I'm talking ancient history here). Anyhow, having guarantied a victory in Super Bowl III, Namath and his fitness routine triumphed, 16-7 at the Orange Bowl, leaving a demoralized Johnny U and his Colts looking like they coulda' used some. So not to completely dump on this new medical study, but it's always good to get a second opinion, and if you'll excuse me now I'm off to get some... uh...exercise.

[GMax]

OMG repeat quarter miles with only enough rest to allow heart and lung to recover? Sounds like my high school track training! Granted it did get me to the State meet in the 1/2 mile, but these days I dont think I want the agony. The longer moderate routine is just fine thanks very much.

[GMax]

And TM you are dating yourself. All tracks these days are metric. Its 200 meters not 220 yards. No 440s either, 400 meters.

Buggy whips are also out in other news!

[Sue]

Buggy whips are also out in other news!

LOL.

[MarkO]

There never was anything so evil as the quarter mile race that determined who got the best football equipment. It was not yet a sprint in those halcyon Jurassic days, but it was unrelenting. Of course, only fools ran a mile or more.

Having overdone at every possible sport, I wandered into a Bikrim Yoga spot for what I thought would be some wussy stretching to loosen my shoulder for tennis. It turned out to be about as hard a workout as anything I’ve come across. It’s not quite like doing 8 in the hot sun in July, but it’s close.

Anyone?

[Porchlight]

Sort of on topic, I saw Chariots of Fire for the first time last night. Great movie. Don't know why I never saw it before, since period Brit films are my favorite. My husband was a track and field guy in high school and that film inspired him to start running.

MarkO,

Is Bikram yoga the one they do in the super hot room? I have some friends who are devotees.

[Soylent Red]

Yoga is some hard stuff MarkO. I incorporate some into my workouts. Pilates too.

As for running...

Being a person who fundamentally hates to run, I still do "windsprints" (actually I do what is called "ladders") twice a week. It actually improves your endurance faster, IMO, than just getting out there and plodding away on a long run.

My favorite part of windsprints? When on about the fourth one my vision narrows down to a little tube about the size of a grapefruit and dead relatives start talking to me.

[cathyf]

Just as a point of information from a fat outta shape middle aged broad -- 30 seconds of exercise followed by 4.5 minutes of rest sounds like about what I could manage. Ok, so "sprint" would be a generous description... And 4-6 sets might be doable if, you know, I were to baldface lie about it...

[Pat]

This evening I'm headed to the HS track to do 2 mile warm-up run, 8 x 400m laps at 1:45 a lap, with a recovery lap between each fast lap, followed by a 2 mile cool-down. Sounds like torture but it's kinda fun doing it in a group. This sort of training helped me carve an hour off off my marathon time.

Oh, and I'm 60 years old. Ten years ago, I was an overweight couch potato who couldn't run 50 yards without tripping over my fat gut and collapsing in a puddle of sweat.

The benefits? A resting heart rate under 50 bpm. Low cholesterol. Excellent blood pressure readings. No prescription drugs. Best of all, no need for those danged ED pills they keep touting every Fox News ad break.

[Jane]

Hey Pat (congrats on the routing BTW) I read this morning that watermelon is the new Viagra.

[Soylent Red]

You're a monster Pat.

[Hoosierhoops]

It supports the notion that people who engage in brief, high-intensity forms of exercise reap the same cardiovascular health benefits as those who exercise at moderate intensity for a longer period of time.

you also reap the benefits of pulled hammy's and pulled muscles.. Watch what a world class athlete does and do that.
They warm up slow..move to moderate and then when the body is warmed up they go for it..
/does that make to much sense for researchers?

[Sue]

Wind "Sprints"? I thought it said Wind Spirits. I'll be back soon. I have to go see the eye doctor.

[GMax]

Is the recovery lap a walk or a jog? Either way it should be tied to heart and lung recovery to get the most benefit, but at 60 good for you even its a crawl and you make 8 of them.

Is the reason you dont need Viagra is that you collapse into bed and fall asleep as your head hits the pillow? LOL

[hit and run]

Sue:
Wind "Sprints"? I thought it said Wind Spirits. I'll be back soon. I have to go see the eye doctor.

You were thinking of this thread, Sue?

[MikeS]

When I was younger, I was a bit of a health nut. I tried to jog every morning for 30 minutes before I got up.
Kind of drifted away from that though.

[MarkO]

Porchlight, the hotter the better. By the way, to my eternal delight, new research suggests the best recovery drink is . . . chocolate milk.

Let's hit it.

[Thomas Collins]

This discussion is psyching me up for my firm softball game tomorrow. There I will be, on a softball field in Boston Common, doing those windsprints to first base trying to turn routine ground balls into base hits. It's great to know that my futile rushes to first will be doing me as much good as marathon running.

As far as gender preferences with respect to the exercise mentioned in my previous post, Jane, I would argue that cross training by using all modes is the healthiest. :-)))

[Soylent Red]

chocolate milk.

Oh man. Wouldn't the lactic acid cause ungodly cramps?

I'll stick with cool water.

[Porchlight]

MarkO

I like yoga workouts and I don't mind the heat. I also like chocolate milk. Sounds great!

[MarkO]

Soylent Red

I have tried almost everything. Then, against my better judgment but under the direction of a fictional doctor, I tried it. It worked. It really did. I still think I'm crazy, but it worked.

[Soylent Red]

I just remember when I was in Arizona and we were running every day, I had to give up dairy products for breakfast because they made me cramp up so bad.

Nope, sticking with green bananas and water.

But bully for you in finding such a tasty workout drink.

FWIW, a buddy of mine used to drink a beer immediately upon returning from PT. Said the carb load worked well for recovery. I like the sound of it, but...

[Thomas Collins]

All this exercise talk has made me reflect on who in my extended family has lived the longest. The longevity kings and queens in my family are those who had jobs requiring them to move (such as security guard or factory worker) or who simply liked to walk. Exercise programs had nothing to do with it.

[MarkO]

Beer. The other chocolate milk.

[bad]

...whose average age was 23.

'nuff said

[Pat]

The recovery lap is a slow jog. You need to get your heart rate down, but not too low. I only run 4 days a week - the other days are 6-8 miles, 12-20 miles and 6 miles, usually at 9 to 10 minutes per mile. I've got more energy than I used to have and don't sleep as much these days. Maybe after a 20 miler I'll take a nap, but not often. I'm more likely to take a cold bath. Nothing to do with lack of ED, but it is good for recovery.

I've done some yoga in the past and I want to get back into it a couple of times a week. It is surprisingly hard, even if you think you are in pretty good shape.

Chocolate milk is a good recovery drink. Slimfast (not the Optima version) is ideal. I actually look forward to glugging down a cold can on the last few miles of a long run. The idea is to get the right mix of carbs and protein to replenish the glycogen you just burned up.

If it hasn't hasn't crapped out completely, it's almost never too late to get that old body back into shape. You won't ever be 20 again, but you can improve a lot. Running, biking, swimming, hiking, yoga, pilates etc. etc. are all good. Golf, bowling, poker, not so much. The key is to find a combination you like, people to do it with, and the will-power to stick with it.

The Boston marathon has qualifying times by age and gender. For men, it starts at 3:10 for ages 18-34 and increases to 4:00 for ages 60-65. At 80, you only have to beat 5 hours. These times are roughly based on what the top 10% in each age group can achieve. But the times also tell you that your physical potential actually declines quite slowly. More surprisingly, a healthy person who is out of shape, can probably get back to their potential, if they have a mind to do so. Ay, there's the rub.

[Jane]

I tried to jog every morning for 30 minutes before I got up.

If I could pull that off, I'd do an hour!

[Soylent Red]

tried to jog every morning for 30 minutes before I got up

If that's another of Thomas' veiled sexual references, put me down for a four hour workout, six days a week.

And beer as a recovery drink afterward.

[Sue]

You were thinking of this thread, Sue?

Yeah. That's it. Thanks for reminding me.

[JM Hanes]

In a former life, I used to play center half in field hockey, which meant covering the whole field on the run all the time, and flat out loved squash where the ball is almost always in play. Used to do the high jump too, but if you set me down on a road or a track and tell me to run, or expect me to repeat the same set of exercises on a regular basis, my entire brain glazes over and I can hardly get my feet off the ground.

It's the tedium induced by all these recommendations that I have trouble getting past, and the fact that the older you get, the faster you forfeit the benefits if you don't just keep going and going and going. I'm positively overcome with lassitude, just thinking about such a neverending trail of woe. So I mostly dig planting holes in the garden (bending, lifting, twisting!) or haul furniture & file boxes & planters up and down the stairs which at least leave you with something to show for the expenditure of time & energy if looking in the mirror doesn't push your buttons.

Alas, the only exercise I haven't been able to trick myself into doing is aerobic. Wouldn't you know that's what everybody seems to insist is most important, which is like hearing there's just no substitute for boredom....

[bad]

Alas, the only exercise I haven't been able to trick myself into doing is aerobic.

Try walking with radio-headphones and and listen to talk radio. Time flies.

[PeterUK]

A good lunch accompanied with a couple of glasses of claret and a brisk nap.

[clarice]

Years ago I did aerobic workouts and swimming and was gorgeous--then I decided there was more to life than ME. I am trying to get back in better shape with an hour's exercise a day--swimming or pilates. The thing about pilates is the equipment certainly inspires erotic daydreams.I don't know that it's otherwise doing much good---well, I take that back--it has increased my stamina and my swimming strokes are far more efficient. I still don't look like a ballerina though.
My husband's the family jock who just started yoga --he thinks it's marvelous. And very hard work.

[MarkO]

Yoga: not just for sissies anymore.

[Thomas Collins]

I think this just shows how well rounded TM's blog posters are. We can discuss health and lifestyle as pointedly as issues concerning elections, war and peace, and the economy!

[Jane]

Alas, the only exercise I haven't been able to trick myself into doing is aerobic. Wouldn't you know that's what everybody seems to insist is most important, which is like hearing there's just no substitute for boredom....

I find classes help. My favorite class called "Active" was recently canceled. It's 20 minutes of step, 20 minutes of power (weights) and 20 minutes of core.

Anyway, feeling the need to keep going I was stuck taking a class called "Groove".

Groove is a trip. I've been doing it for 3 months and am still utterly incompetent. It's essentially dancing - latin, hip hop, all forms of very fast moving dancing. Now I can't dance. I've never danced and I don't plan to change that. But what I find even more entertaining than tripping over my feet for 60 minutes is how lewd it all is.

That's right. I said "lewd". I'm not one to be hung up on morality - I really couldn't care less, but my goodness, people didn't move like that when I used to hang out where people danced. I practically dislocate my hips just trying to keep up. It's an absolute riot. I'm in awe of the people who can do it, and do it with a straight face.

[cathyf]

I have this product idea that I would love for somebody to implement... It's a little box that goes between your computer and monitor, and plugs into a treadmill or exercise bike. The idea is that every time you stop moving it clicks on the screensaver on your computer. So you have to exercise in order to web surf...

[clarice]

If you'd walked into one of my old aerobic classes when they were doing the butt lifts, you'd have thought you'd accidentally stepped into the bada bing club.

Whatever gets people moving.

At my age, I think the pulleys and gear of the pilates studio is about all the excitement I can handle.

[clarice]

Cool,cathyf.

There was an article in the paper about the new milk containers at Costco--they're rectangular which apparently means they can be more cheaply transported .Consumers say it's hard to pour from them though. I figure at this very moment some guy has just dreamed up in his basement a spout, consumers can attach to these soon to be ubiquitous containers. Free enterprise--keeps the world moving.

[scottl720]

Nice to see this sort of discussion on JOM. This may be a subject that I can pass a little knowledge on to you wise folks. I basically spent my 20's and early 30's as a an amateur athlete (i.e. hard rock climber)

I would reccomend anyone who is interested in training buy a good heart rate monitor and learn how to use it: Performance Heart Rate Training, Burke?

It is absolutely necessary for proper training.

It sounds like Pat may have read some of these things but a good start to understand interval/cycle training is: Performance Track and Field by the legendary Coach Bill Bowerman (Oregon/Nike).

Also check out The New Power Program and Optimum Sports Nutrition (out of print) by Dr. Michael Colgan. These books are absolutely vital in my opinion.

Also read The Power and the Glory by Graham Greene if you have not done so yet, just cause its so bitchin'(i just threw that in for PUK:)

sl

[Thomas Collins]

Swimming in a chlorinated pool is my favorite aerobic activity. No Ipods, Blackberries, cellphones or sharks in sight!

[clarice]

Me, too, Thomas...and you won't get shin splints or torn tendons or stretched ligaments..just go with the flow..My mom is 89 and still swims every day.

As for that heart monitor thing--you do know that half the women on this board have admitted to being obsessives--Cut.It.Out.

[HoosierHoops]

Yoga: not just for sissies anymore.

never tried Yoga..but in college alot of us did this japanese fighting art called Aikido.
That's how we did our warm-ups and stretching.. It looked cooler to act like a ninja than Jane Fonda in 'buns of steel'
So i just spent a couple of hours on the couch watching a movie..Feeling real guilty now :
Everytime i see the field of dreams tears stream down my face..seen it 50 times..it's like brian's song..
yup the hoopster is a big sissy..
/ don't get any ideas 89..i'm watching you.

[HoosierHoops]

Swimming in a chlorinated pool is my favorite aerobic activity.

Basketball
swimming
golf
softball
ping pong
pool
chess

/ i work up a sweat playing chess :)

[HoosierHoops]

And if you're inclined to poison my cat, I'm sure Jane can provide the details.

Posted by: eightnine

/if they do ever find your cat dead it will be an open and shut case of suicide.

[Jane]

I like swimming, both water aerobics and laps. laps lull me into something weird and clear my head. I also love love love yoga, altho I haven't found a good class lately. I do something weird called centergy which is like yoga. The best part is when you rest at the end.

[hit and run]

scottl720:
I basically spent my 20's and early 30's as a an amateur athlete (i.e. hard rock climber)

You aren't by any chance going to be in the vicinity of Jackson Hole over the next two weeks are you?

One of the coolest things about being here in Idaho is that there is so much manual labor to do on the property. It may be trees that need trimming and/or taking down, it may be rocks that need clearing out of the field, it may be firewood that needs splitting, it may be irrigation pipes that need moving, it may be fences that need mending (literal, not familial) -- but all of it, no matter how manual and laborious, is just absolutely tranquil for the mind.

And good for the waistline, with the volume of beer we consume.

[clarice]

HEH--Glad you all made it, Hit!

[PeterUK]

Clarice,

"there is so much manual labor to do on the property. It may be trees that need trimming and/or taking down, it may be rocks that need clearing out of the field, it may be firewood that needs splitting, it may be irrigation pipes that need moving, it may be fences that need mending (literal, not familial) -"

??????????

[MarkO]

89 describes a cat as his. Clearly he does not have a cat near him. No one "has" a cat. Under the law, a cat cannot be controlled and one is not responsible for its acts. Like W. Clark.

[bad]

Peter

Hit's not talking of doing the work himself, he's asking Scott the rock climber to come by and do it for him. No worries...

[PeterUK]

Clarice,
None the less,there needs to be an official from the Department of Sharp Things and Dangerous Objects on hand.

[PeterUK]

Sorry Bad,

[glasater]

Hit--If you're in the northern part of the state--you could have some thunder bumpers coming your way:-)

[hit and run]

Glaster, we're in the southeastern part of the state -- just over the pass from Jackson, WY.

We are in a great situation here -- it's still spring -- with the flowers and runoff and everything being green -- but the weather is later summer -- afternoon showers cooling things off.

Oh, and I'm not sure if we've ever been in your specific locale - but we've been near for sure. We've stayed in Pendleton a few times growing up in our cross-country travels -- and when I was in college we played the NAIA World Series in Clarkston, WA/Lewiston, ID.

We've had you surrounded!

[hit and run]

No -- I'm talking about mending literal fences as in "fences make good neighbors"...but not in the sense that our family is in need of any fence mending because we get along so famously (and no, it's not just the beer.

Tomorrow is picnic up Fox Creek Canyon with the seven cousins...

And in the afternoon, I am to make a picnic table. That is, if the local Ace Hardware gets in the shipment of screws they said was supposed to get in today.

We'll see!

[bad]

Is it hard to get a screw in Idaho?

[clarice]

Indeed,PUK--That or bomb that Ace Hardware so he can't get near such objects.

[hit and run]

bad:
Is it hard to get a screw in Idaho?

I don't bathe much here and have resolved not to shave -- maybe that's the problem?

[hit and run]

I mean the clerk at Ace was looking at me funny.

[glasater]

Just so you know what Hit's talking about, he is in God's country just because it is so lovely this time of year.

And yes, you had me surrounded if you were in any of those places. And I shoot the Pendleton Roundup every year--from the arena floor:-) It's pretty dangerous. Don't know if this link will work but here are a couple of my rodeo photos--from the press box.

[Soylent Red]

Is it hard to get a screw in Idaho?

I dunno bad. Can you run down a sheep?

(I'll be here all week in the Tiki Room. Remember to tip your waitresses and bartenders)

[bad]

LOL Soylent!!! I'd rather tip you.

da boom ching

[bgates]

Can you run down a sheep?
Hey, you know what's good for that? Interval training.

Clarice -
My mom is 89
!!!!!!

[bad]

bgates

years old?

[HoosierHoops]

Can you run down a sheep?
Hey, you know what's good for that? Interval training.

Clarice -
My mom is 89
!!!!!!

Gawd you're funny..

[scottl720]

hit,

sorry, can't make it to the hole within a few weeks,

you should go over and hook up with the Exum guide service. Do the Exum ridge on the grand. You can do it if you're fairly fit (i'm assuming you're exagerating about all the beer drinking:)

They may reccomend the other route that i cannot name right now but its the easier way up, that would be cool too.

Also, as far as manual labor, one of the best lines i've ever read is Tom? from 'grapes of wrath' after they traveled so much with no work and finally found some out near fresno," goddamn a maddox is a fine tool!" paraphrase i think?

sl

[clarice]

ahem--89 years old, of course.

[Ann]

"(i'm assuming you're exagerating about all the beer drinking:)"

LOL Now, that there is funny :)

[Sue]

(i'm assuming you're exagerating about all the beer drinking:)

Oh, lawzy, pass the smellin' salts...sacrilege...

[Soylent Red]

Hoosier:

Dammit! Is your son going to be a Belvoir over August and September?

[bad]

ahem--89 years old, of course.

Whew!!! For a moment....

[HoosierHoops]

Hoosier:

Dammit! Is your son going to be a Belvoir over August and September?

Posted by: Soylent Red | July 01, 2008 at 09:03 PM

ahem--89 years old, of course.

Whew!!! For a moment....

Posted by: bad | July 01, 2008 at 09:09 PM

Post a comment

2 for 1
no Red.. Jordan is based at Camp Pendleton, Ca. he is a member of the 3/5 marines, kilo company..Anytime he gets a 96 leave we make sure he only comes home to indiana..( ahem..plus his girlfriend is here..)

part 2: Who else was thinking..oh no 89!!?!
I mean here are so many levels with 89 here.
/ i'm watching you 89

[Caro]

Hit, my grandfather had a cabin in Island Park when I was growing up. I will be driving through Idaho Falls in a couple of weeks but you will probably be gone, alas.

My son is named Colter. I climbed the Grand in '87.

Scott, I was absolutely addicted to rock climbing in my 40s, in the 80s. The Gunks, North Conway.

You meet the most interesting people at Tom's place.

[HoosierHoops]

I don't bathe much here and have resolved not to shave -- maybe that's the problem?

Posted by: hit and run | July
No..if that was the case..mankind would have died out with the caveman..
There must be something else...
/have fun Hit..regards

[bad]

ahem--89

HH
I'm secretly pulling for "agent."

Jordan is in my prayers.

[hit and run]

Scott:
You can do it if you're fairly fit (i'm assuming you're exagerating about all the beer drinking:)

Yes. I do exaggerate. That is, I would embarrass myself, my family, and my country if I owned up to how much I really do drink ;-)

Heh, yeah, I'm fairly fit. I can keep up with the seven cousins (ages 1-6), for whatever that's worth.

Caro:
My son is named Colter. I climbed the Grand in '87.

Wow. Yeah, I worked in Yellowstone in 91. My roommate and a couple other guys from Canyon went up to the Tetons for a weekend. My roommate was an experienced climber with all sorts of gear. They figured they would just go up and find some cliff or something. Along a trail, they found someone who had climbed the Grand before --knew the route, knew what he was doing -- but had no gear and no one else to climb with.

So....fate. They climbed it. On the way down, my roommate dropped his pack -- and it fell thousands (in their telling) of feet to never be recovered again. Including the only camera on the climb.

Now, I am no conspiratorialist (at least not in non-political terms), so I believed them when they say they actually summitted.

And besides, throughout the summer each of them kept the story straight, no matter which way I grilled them.

Me? I only did Death Canyon when I was there...and climbed Buck Mountain. No Grand, definitely. No gear, just a steep hike. But great views.

[scottl720]

right on Caro,

I went to SUNY New Paltz (one of the first BSEE graduates), lived and climbed in town for about 15 years,

I'm a full on Gunks local! (bout the same time you were there apparently)

unless you're a hot chick i prolly don't know you!! .... owwwww!

don't want to say more as people might figure out who i am :)

hit, i got about 10 beers in me right now too.... just sayin'

sl

[hit and run]

Hah! 9 in me -- #10 is imminent.

Brother hit and run made the most fabulous shredded beef enchiladas.

I told him I would blame him at 2 am when I can't sleep due to the indigestion.

Of course, I also admitted that if I stopped drinking now, it wouldn't be so bad...but fat chance, that.

It's gonna be a long and restless night.

Good thing that stream out our window will be the calming influence to the long night.

[bad]

Hit

A margarita keeps the indigestion in check.

[JM Hanes]

hit:

My son lives in Jackson. He's moving back to NC this fall, so I'm definitely heading out for a visit before then. He fills in as the bouncer at a local bar from time to time, so you've probably seen him....

Any of you cogniscienti care to recommend an outfitter? I've been longing to do some trout fishing (streams not lakes) and am wondering who has the most reliable guides/best access.

[eightnine2718281828mu5e]

ooooohhhh claaaariiiiice!!!!!!

Time for bed, dear!!! Leave some fireflies for tomorrow!!!!

[HoosierHoops]

ooooohhhh claaaariiiiice!!!!!!

Time for bed, dear!!! Leave some fireflies for tomorrow!!!!

Posted by: eightnine2718281828mu5e

/you're a freak

[hit and run]

JMH:
Any of you cogniscienti care to recommend an outfitter? I've been longing to do some trout fishing (streams not lakes) and am wondering who has the most reliable guides/best access.

Oh, I can get you that. Brother hit and run and best friend beer truck driver are a treasure trove of outfitter/fishing experience. I'll ask -- and see what they have to say.

In fact, I'd say, go with them and not a guide -- but the thought of you meeting brother hit and run before I got to meet your would break my heart into a million pieces, so forget that. You need a pro.

[Caro]

Scott, there was a German restaurant with Heffeveisen on tap at the bottom of the Gunks. Hit would love it!

Hit, I worked at Old Faithful summer of '65. Unforgetable.

JMH, there are drift boats on the Snake out of Jackson that look like so much fun. Ennis, Montana, is a fishing Heaven, not so far away.

[eightnine2718281828mu5e]

---
/you're a freak
---

Diggin' the vibe, sweet cream?

[Soylent Red]

Hoosier:

Ixnay on the eedingfay of the olltray.

[hit and run]

Best picture in my entire life was fishing at the dam emptying out of Jackson Lake in early spring 1998. Brother hit and run and his buddy took me -- we caught maybe a dozen trout and kept four. We took the fish back to the trailer in Jackson my brother and his friend were staying at (the owner was in prison and was letting them stay there for free so someone could look after his saltwater tank) and we cooked them up. A little bony, but the taste? Nothing better than cleaning, cooking and eating the fish you caught that day.

The picture is of me with the Jackson dam in the background and the Tetons beyond that at sunset, I'm holding up the fish we kept.

It will just be a couple more years before that scene is replicated with hit and run jr.

[eightnine2718281828mu5e]

---
Ixnay on the eedingfay of the olltray.
---

So much for party discipline.

[scottl720]

Caro,

yeah sure, that would be the Mountain Brauhaus sp?,

I loved the way you spelled hefe veisen by the way!

Lots of good friends, Czech immigrants in that area digging the hefe, (Franky Tzac, Vlady Skalda RIP)

actually there is a place up in Krumville that has mucho good beers that they all hang at

well i guess thats that, Bon Scott is screamin' in my ear

sl

[Caro]

Hit, we all have our special places that we think of as God's Country. I think we share the same ones.

Fishing memories with H&R Jr will come before you know it. Have a wonderful time in the Tetons!

[HoosierHoops]

Hoosier:

Ixnay on the eedingfay of the olltray.

Posted by: Soylent Red
you are a classic my friend..
...So because of the housing market..and you know i feel bad...
But the hoopsters family is spending the next 7-10 days moving into a new house.
We got a deal on this great house with built in swimming pool, a new 6 person hot tub, a huge deck and barn in the back.
And the hoopster has total control over the 2000' basement.. ( we'll see )
/ i swear i'll be like a mother bear over the basement..it's really cool. I'm really excited..I get to learn how to take care of a pool and hot tub..WWWEEE!!!
anyhoo,,not much else going on...
/ How do i get the pool table in the basement with the least amount of labor? that is the question

[clarice]

I know exactly where that dam is. we've been there for the past three years...beautiful place, Hit.

[bad]

HH

The store you buy it from will bring it in pieces and assemble and level it to your site. Its an awesome process to observe. Congrats on the new digs.

[Soylent Red]

Beat me to it bad.

Make sure the gorillas who move it don't ding the slate.

[bad]

Rick

I'm ready for my bedtime story. Please, please, pretty please!!!!!!!