Chinese Gymnasts

Some of the Chinese female gymnasts are underage - surprise!  A powerful state-sponsored gymnastics program can get fake state-issued passports to document the eligibility of its athletes - who could have seen that coming?  But the whole Chinese internet scrubbing and Google-cache pushback is interesting.

Comments

[anduril]

Steve Sailer has an interesting blog on Chinese Olympian (as in, tall as a mountain) and NBA star, Yao Ming: Successful Eugenics Experiment. Chinese state involvement in athletics goes beyond forging passports into the realm of breeding for success.

[Luis Polonia]

Golly, has anyone notified the Chinese Government yet? They must feel mortified about this. Imagine, a nation of 1 billion people being hoodwinked by these conniving young girls. Send 'em all back for another year at Lip-Syncing School is what I recommend.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Nadia Comaneci was 14 when she won her gold medals in 1976. I don't see the point of outlawing the best gymnasts from the competition. Especially since the Olympics are only held every four years. A 15 year old held out this year will be 19 (and possibly past her prime)at her first opportunity in 2012.

[jainphx]

What difference does it make, and more the shame that we lost to mere children. The shame is ours that we didn't compete.

[JM Hanes]

jainphx:

Wow. Not having competed, the fact that two fabulous U.S. athletes just took the gold and silver in the women's all around gymnastics competition is a miracle of epic proportions.

[Sara]

The bottom line is that the Chinese girls were the best and blew the competition away. The whole reason for the age cutoff is supposed to be because their bodies are not developed enough to handle the physical stress of the skills involved, but that is kind of stupid reasoning since these same youngsters, of every country, are doing the same routines in their home gyms for hours at a time and from as young as 3 years old.

[Sara]

Wow. Not having competed, the fact that two fabulous U.S. athletes just took the gold and silver in the women's all around gymnastics competition is a miracle of epic proportions.

Epic is a good word. Sean Johnson's and Nastia Liukin's performances were sensational. I was overcome with emotion at the end when Nastia came off the floor and her Olympic gold Dad threw his arms around his Olympic gold daughter.

Unlike the little bitch who is being called the "internet hottie," Sacramone, who missed her mount to the balance beam and then came off the floor and sulked for the rest of the competition. She didn't care that the rest of her team still had balance beam and floor exercise to go, it was all about her childish temper tantrum. Even when they managed to pull it out for a medal, she wouldn't smile. If I was their coach, she would have been off the team right there and then. She shamed herself, not by missing her routine, but by her attitude, and she shamed America.

[Jane]

Geez, that's a little harsh sara.

[MayBee]

My sons are all about Sacramone.

I like her. When people tried to blame the Chinese officials for taking too long and throwing her off, she said it was her fault, that she lost her nerve. I don't think people always smile when they are focused, or when they feel that perhaps they just lost the medal for their team.
But I admire all of them.

And to follow what JMH said on an earlier day. I love it that Nastia was born to a Soviet gymnast, Shawn is coached by a man born in China, and the whole team is coached by the Romanian legend Marta Karoli. It is a beautiful country we live in.

[Sara]

I know it is harsh, but I was so angry at her that night, I wanted to reach thru the TV screen and shake her. They were in a team competition, she is the team leader. It was her responsibility to lead the team and keep their spirits up. Instead, she brought the whole team down and they all looked like a bunch of sore loser sourpusses. Contrast against the men the night before who were out there cheering on their team members with "go for it," "you can do it," against her walking around like she was the only one who counted and bringing the team spirit down.

Tell your sons the last thing they need is some high maintenance spoiled brat like her.

[JM Hanes]

Sara:

I certainly wouldn't disparage the wonderful performances by the Chinese gymnasts, but notwithstanding the reasons for the 16 year old cut off, pre-pubescent girls, given a rigorous training regime, have a distinct height/weight and center of gravity advantage over post-adolescents in gymnastics.

[centralcal]

MayBee, beautifully said. I haven't been able to see much of the Olympics, just a few of the high points, but I was really moved by the Kenyan who is running for the US (I only saw a preliminary heat).

[BobS]

patrick sullivan: the reason that age requirement was put in was to protect young kids from being overtrained at such a young age. It is believed that they are not mature enough to submit themselves to the kind of tortuous training that produces the kind of talent exhibited by today's female gymnast. Its probably pointless as girls are still going to train at high leves to perform. Yet the rules the rule and the Chinese have proven that they don't have any trouble with dishonesty in sports. What about things even more important? They should be ridiculed over this.

[sbw]

The "give them an opportunity before they are too old" argument doesn't trump the "Its illegal and China shouldn't break the rules" argument.

Don't like the rules? Change 'em, don't break 'em.

[MayBee]

Tell your sons the last thing they need is some high maintenance spoiled brat like her.

Then they would turn to my husband and ask him what in the wooorld he is doing with me. :-)

[Sara]

JMH, I completely agree with you. I heard an interview several years ago with Nadia and she said that the hardest thing for her to overcome was getting taller and developing breasts. She said it was like starting over with someone else's body and that routines she could do in her sleep suddenly became awkward and, in some respects, dangerous, because the change in center of gravity made each movement very different to complete compared to her pre-pubescent days.

[Sara]

Maybe: LOL.

[Sara]

The age rule doesn't seem to apply to divers. There are 15 year olds diving.

JMH, hits it best. For men, as they mature, they get stronger and so the younger boys cannot compete against the 18, 20, 22 year old guy who is at the height of his physicality, especially on exercises like the still rings. For girls, it is different. Their bodies (centers) change so drastically, it is hard to compare a pre-pubescent girl against one who is fully developed.

So says the gal who had to do 150 situps without a break in order to make up being too afraid to do a cartwheel during our tumbling semester in girl's gym.

[bgates]

childish temper tantrum
She shamed herself
some high maintenance spoiled brat
Reading your comments, Sara, I found myself thinking the exact same phrases.

But who's Alicia Sacramone?

[JM Hanes]

Sara:

I had a similar experience as a high jumper a million years or so ago, where you actually have to switch to an entirely different jump technique. By the time you get to Olympic heights, of course, nobody can scissor over the bar. That's just how younger girls usually start out (or used to!).

[Porchlight]

Can anyone tell me which gymnastics events are left to watch and approximately when they will air? I studied this NBC scheduling page but I can't figure out if the events were listed in Beijing time or US time.

Thank you in advance! And apologies for my inability to focus - I've been busy at work and our firstborn is starting kindergarten in a week and my mind has gone to mush.

[Sara]

bgates: My complaint about Sacremone is mostly that as the team leader she has a responsibility to her team. She didn't put the team first. Instead of coming back from what was otherwise a good routine, except for the missed mount and saying, "okay, I'm just one screw up, you gals can make up for it, go USA" she walked around like Dad had just told her she was cut off from using the Platinum card or something. It was really unseemly. NBC kept trying to cover for her, but even they were having a hard time justifying her attitude. She refused to cheer on her team mates as they finished their routines and then went out and screwed up badly on her own floor routine with an attitude that came thru loud and clear, "if I can't have the gold then I don't give a sh!t."

The contrast with the men the night before was striking.

[hit and run]

Porchlight:
Thank you in advance! And apologies for my inability to focus - I've been busy at work and our firstborn is starting kindergarten in a week and my mind has gone to mush.

Wow! hit and run jr (our firstborn) started kindergarten last year and princess hit and run starts it this year.

I hope your firstborn has as much fun as ours did last year!

[Sara]

Porchlight: There is one gymnastics event left, which will be broadcast tonight. The individual. Unlike the all around last night, this will be the top competitors on their best apparatus.

[MayBee]

porchlight- those are EDT, with individual events in both mens and womens scheduled beginning at 6 pm EDT on Sunday, and going throughout the night (our night).

[Sara]

I've been watching the Olympics by switching around between NBC, network chanel 4, MSNBC, and the USA network. The latter two are covering the events considered less glamorous, and many of the preliminary rounds for events next week. Boxing, rowing, equestrian, badminton (which actually has been exciting, who knew?), soccer, baseball, softball, etc.

Have I mentioned that I'm an Olympic junkie? LOL.

[MayBee]

..and continuing with more individual apparatus competition on Mon and Tues.

(actually, if you hover over the time, they show you the 12 hour format)

[Jane]

Will it screw up this topic if I live blog the Rick warren thing? Can someone let me know if Phelps is about to swim?

[Sara]

Usain Bolt, the Reggae Runner, world's fastest man. 9.69 in the 100.

[MayBee]

Oh. The Rick Warren thing begs to be Jane-blogged.

[Jane]

A standing O for a tanned and rested O. (Oops) We start with leadership.

Listening. Who are the three wisest people you listen to, and who will you rely on heavily? Obama stalls and panders.

1. There are too many to mention. His wife (the instructions were, not your wife)

His grandmother - who just saw him for the first time since she was thrown under the bus.

I wouldn't restrict myself to 3 people: Sam Nunn and Dick Luger. Ted kennedy and Tom Coburn. He likes a lot of different points of view. (Yeah right)

2. Integrity and love are the basis of leadership. What is your greatest moral failure and America's greatest moral failure.

I had a difficult youth. I drank, drugs, no father, I was selfish (oh like Edwards?) I couldn't focus on others. I now know it's not about me. Warren praises. When I protect myself instead of God's work, I fail.

America's greatest failure is that we don't do everything for the least of the brothers, Matthew, povery, racism, sexism, (the man is a socialist, not doubt)

3. An example of a time when you went against party loyalty and your best interest for the good of America.

I worked with john Mccain on Campaign ethics and finance reform. (Boy does he have cajones) We passed a bill that started movong things forward. Another example was when I opposed the war in Iraq.

[MayBee]

America's greatest failure is that we don't do everything for the least of the brothers, Matthew, povery, racism, sexism,

That is really funny, because there's a 527 out there called Matthew 25 that produced a big "Obama never cheated on his wife" ad this week.

[Jane]

4. Flipflopping - what's the most significan position you held 10 years ago because now you see it differently.

(Just one? Is there anything I haven't flip flopped on?) Welfare reform. I was more concerned that Clinton's bill could be disastrous. The bill worked better than people anticipated. We have to have work as a centerpiece of social policy, (applause) because of the intrinsic dignity of work.

5. What's the most gut wrenching decision you had to make and how did you come to it.

No not reverend Wright but rather THE WAR IN IRAQ. I knew there was no WMD and I had questions. I was already looking to a post Saddam situation. We had to finish the job in Afghanistan. Going forward there were difficult decision.

On to world view

[MayBee]

was when I opposed the war in Iraq

He must have forgotten the question was "against his own best interest"

[Jane]

He just sounds sooooooooooooooooooo political to me. So completely ungenuine. Am I jaded? YES I AM!

[Jane]

Maybee, did you move back from Japan?

[MayBee]

It was gut-wrenching for him to oppose the war in Iraq? He knew there were no WMD?

Is he afraid he's lost his anti-war base or something?

[MayBee]

I did, Jane. I'm in the LA Area now.
I'm really happy to have moved away from Japanese Olympic coverage, which makes the Olympics look basically like a baseball tournament.

[MayBee]

Did I scare the liveblog away?

[Jane]

6. Everyone has a world view. Christianity - what does it mean to you to trust in Christ?

It means I believe JC died for my sins and I am redeemed thru him. I don't walk alone. I can carry out his intent. My sins will be washed away. It means I am obligated to embrace not just words, but deeds. (Ohhhhhhhhh) It means acting justly, walking humbly, knowing I will fall short. (my gawd the man never says anything)

Abortion - 40 million since Roe v Wade, at one point does a baby get human rights in your view?

The answer is above my pay grade. (WOW) He refuses to answer. There is a moral and ethical element to this issue, and you can't deny the gravity. I am pro-choice, not pro-abortion. I don't think women make these decisions casually. The goal should be (and I put this in the democrat platform)

Have you ever voted to limit or reduce abortions?

I am in favor of late term abortions if there is a provision for a woman's health (liar) How do we provide the resources that allow women to keep a child.

Define marriage: The union between a man and a woman - big applause. As Christian it is a sacred union.

Would you support a constitutional amendment with that definition? No. It's state law.

I don't promote same sex marriage but i believe in civil unions. I can afford those civil rights to others even if I have a differet view.

Stem cells. We can use adult cells - so do we need federal funding for embryonic cells. (He just won't answer the question asked). It's all Bush's fault. We should go ahead, unless adults are working well, except gabblydegook. We should discourage cloning.

7. Does evil exist and if it does do we ignore it, or negotiate with it, or avoid it, or defeat it.

We confront evil squarely. (Just not saddam) We can't erase evil and should confront it, but we must have humility. we've been evil in the name of good.

[hit and run]

I wouldn't restrict myself to 3 people: Sam Nunn and Dick Luger. Ted kennedy and Tom Coburn.

Remember, Tom Coburn got thrown under the bus in the debate question about Ayers...

[Sara]

Are all these answers Obama? Where's McCain?

[Porchlight]

[interrupting liveblog] Thanks y'all. It looked like from that schedule that the individual events would span more than one night, but I take it they won't begin to air here until tomorrow night (Sunday).

Thanks Hit - I think Princess Porchlight will have a blast in kindergarten. If we can get her up in the mornings (she is a late sleeper/night owl just like her dad).

....back to liveblog....

[Jane]

Which Supreme Court Justice would you not have nominated.

Clarence Thomas. (You didn't vote for Alito or Roberts.) I don't think he was striong enough intellectually. I would not have nominated Scalia. Roberts was tougher because he was more compelling personally. The way he has operated on the bench confirms my no vote. The SC has to guard against the encroachment of the executive on the other branches, and Roberts has given more power than the constitution intended.

9. Faith based orgs. Would you insist that faith based orgs forgo federal funds if they want to choose who they hire?

I know all about the power of faith based institutions. They can hire who they want when it comes to their mission. When it comes to federally funded programs we have to be careful to avoid discrimination. That's not new. (Wanna bet?)

So I can't choose who I hire?

The devil is in the details. (really barack? No kidding) I don't want to use federal funding to discriminate.

10. Education: we are 19th in graduations and 1st in incarcerations. Do you believe in merit pay for teachers?

We should have a system of performance pay designed of course by the teachers.

11. Taxes: define rich. Give me a number.

You qualify if you have book sales of 25 million. Here is how I think about it: If you are making $150 or less you are poor or middle class. More than $250k you are doing well. If we believe in what I believe in we have to pay for these things, I pay lots of money in taxes. Tax cuts for less than 250k because I want fairness and balance, and i'll make it simpler.

[bgates]

Sara, I think the format is Rick Warren one-on-one with each candidate, Obama first.

[Jane]

Is someone keeping an eye on the Olympics?

[hit and run]

Sara:
Are all these answers Obama? Where's McCain?

The candidates get 1 hour each. The candidates will not interact.

[Jane]

The man lies, lies, lies, lies.

[bgates]

Jane, the women's marathon is about halfway over. It's the only event NBC has shown so far. They're really fast. For two and a half hours.

[hit and run]

Dude. We're watching women's trampoline (dvr'ed).

This. should be a big event. What fun!

[Jane]

12. America's responsibility to the rest of the world.

Re: war: What is worth dying for, what is worth sacrificing lives for -

America's freedom - now let me tell you another boring anectdote. We have alliances - Nato, where we have pledged militarily for the common defense. Period.

What would be your criteria?

There is no hard and fast line. It's always a judgment call. The basic principle - if we have it in our power to prevent genocide and we can work with the international community -

War without UN approval?

Oh yes, yes of course. Bosnia was fab -

13. 148 million orphans in the world. They need to be in families. Would you commit to having an emergency plan for orphans like President Bush did with AIDs.

I cheated and looked at this idea. And I think it is fabulouso! Plus I will prevent more orphans by givng health care to the whole world.

Religious persecution. How should we end it in China, Iraq and our allies?

We bear witness and speak out and not pretend it isn't happening. Smack at Bush. We need to move china into the world community and we have to acknowledge that they are evil and join in forums to say they are evil. (I'm sure that will work) We are creating a UNIVERSAL PRINCIPLE. (I will be king of the whole world). we need more habeus corpus.

Human trafficing is the fast growing industry in the world.

This is a TOP priority. We need better tools for prosecuting. (MORE HABEAUS CORPUS) We have to crack down and speak out and have more alliances. (Of course)

Why do you want to be president?

My mother used to get mad at me if I was being mean or unfair to someone (like me she was a communist) I want to care for the people who need a shot. I think we are at a critical juncture. (We need more freebies).I can build bridges, I promise, even tho I've not ever built any in the past.

What do you say to people who oppose me asking these questions?

I'll do anything to avoid actually talking with John Mccain so this is the perfect forum. And those negative ads are bad/

[Jane]

What would you tell the American public if I knew there were not any repercussions.

Solving energy will not be easy and there will be a price to pay, and if we pretend everythiing is free, well at least for anyone making over 250k then we should demand they make sacrifices.

[Jane]

My name is Barack Obama and I'm an empty suit!

[MayBee]

I cannot believe a US Presidential candidate just denigrated the intellectualism of one of our Supreme Court Justices.
Appalling.

[Jane]

1. 3 wisest people you know:

General Petreaus. (Yeah!) John Lewis, for his optimism, courage, committment, Meg Whitman, CEO of Ebay, great American success stories.

Imagine actually answering the questions.

2. Greatest moral failure.

Failure of my first marriage.

America hasn't devoted ourselves to causes greater than our self interest. Serve a cause greater than your self interest.

3. Partisenship.

The old MS Congeniality line - the line is long, climate change, torture, McCain Feingold, I opposed sending troops to Beirut .

4. Change in position:

Offshore Drilling! GO MCCAIN!!!!!

5. Most gutwrenching decisiion:

I didn't leave Viet Nam early. Not only the toughest decision but the one I am most happy about.

WOW. I think he is hitting it out of the park. Am I just biased?

[Jane]

I think I am alone here.

Oh well. Them's the breaks.

[Porchlight]

I predict that will come back to bite him, MayBee. Obama's fellow lefty academics may agree with his assessment, but still, that was an outrageous thing to say to the American public.

Jane, I am running around the house and not paying enough attention, but will go watch McCain now. Thanks to you and bad for liveblogging!

[MayBee]

I'm checking in, Jane!

[Jane]

Should I go over there or stay here?

[MayBee]

Here. This is your historical record.

[tina]

I'm reading your commentary too; I couldn't watch Obama because he just stutters his way through statements that are not really answers. McCain is doing terrific I think. He is the ONLY grown up in this race.

[Jane]

5.Marriage - between a man and a woman. States should make the decision.

Hey where did my abortion remark go?

6.He says live begins at conception.

7. Stem cells:

I'm wildly optimistic that skin cell research will make the issue of embryonic research/

8. Does evil exist?

We should defeat it. He is knocking it out of the park.. I will get Bin Laden. No one should be allowed to take thousands of American lives. Radical islamic extemists.
RADICAL ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS

[Rick Ballard]

Go Jane!

[Jane]

Did you hear that weenie Obama? Did you hear that?

9. Leadership: Judges:

I would not have nominated Ginsberg, Breyer, Souter and Stevens. Nomination should be based on a proven record of not legislating from the bench. I love Roberts and Alito.

10. Faith based orgs.

I believe the exact opposite of Obama. He coincidentally mentions Katrina as did Warren. But he needs to learn how to pronounce New Orleans.

11. Education: "Find bad teachers another line of work".

He is just doing great. Choice and competition! Choice and competition! Home schools work, vouchers work.

(boy the difference just in animation is amazing between these guys)

[Porchlight]

Jane this is awesome. He is definitely hitting it out of the park.

[Jane]

12. Taxes: Define rich.

Rich should be defined by a home, a good job and education. I don't want to take money from the rich, I want everyone to be rich. I don't believe in class warfare, I don't want wealth redistribution. Keep taxes low. get government out of it.

$5 million if you are just talking about income. I'm sure than comment will be distorted. We want to keep taxes low. The problem is spending not taxes. Congress is supposed to be careful stewards. We have $4.00 a gallon gas and COngress goes on vacation. I want to give working Americans a better shot at a better life.

[Charles Martin]

So how is Obama going to avoid being on the same stage as McCain in the future? From this, it looks as if he's toast if he ever is.

[Jane]

13. Security v privacy:

They collide and we have to preserve privacy including a secret ballot for unions. We have to step up our capability. We need Congress to work together, and it's Congress' failure, because all they do is fight.

[Jane]

It's like the difference between watching a real person and watching a robot.

[centralcal]

Two threads - what to do?!!!!!

McCain aced this!

[Charles Martin]

I think it's because McCain actually knows what he thinks, where Obama only knows what he wants.

[hit and run]

Charles, spot on, spot on, spot on!

[MayBee]

Wowee.
I'm getting out my swami hat and predicting very few joint townhalls.

[Charles Martin]

I think Obama is going to try to figure out a reason why there can't be any debates either.

[bgates]

Does a good showing here help McCain at all? Winning the crowd at a nondenominational Orange County church is a pretty low bar for the Republican, I would think. And besides lunatics like JOMers, who is watching this, on a Saturday night in August during the Olympics? (And even half of us are only catching the liveblogging, which is of course always appreciated.)

[Charlie (Colorado)]

How the hell did that turn into "Charles Martin"? I was beginning to wonder why everyone had gone all formal on me.

[Jane]

14. Stewardship. What is worth dying for?

Freedom, our national security. We can't right every wrong, but we can be a beacon of hope and liberty for everyone. There are conflicts we can't settle. American blood is our most important asset.

What would be the criteria for committing troops.

Threat to national security.

How can we effectively stop genocide? We should explore supplying logistics and get African personnel.

Georgia?

Russia re-emergence of domination. People are being killed. He tells the story of the Georgian revolution. We have to bring about ceasefire and we need Russian respect of territorial integrity.

It's about Russian domination and energy - the pipeline.

15. Religious persecution:

The president's greatest asset if the bully pulpit.

[Jane]

Well think of it this way - anyone watching this is gonna vote for McCain.

[Jane]

Orphans:

Make adoption a lot easier.

He talks about adopting Bridget.

Why do you want to be president.

Stump speech - but a good one. I want to inspire Americans ....

Put my country first. Hope, optimism, my job is to be the president of all American and I'll always put my country first.

This nation was founded on judeo Christian values.

OUT OF THE PARK!

[RichatUF]

Great job Jane on the live blogging.

[hit and run]

Yes sir, Mr. Martin!

[centralcal]

Excellent, Jane!

[Sara]

Okay, repeating myself from the other thread. Wow! Wow! Wow! Wow! Wow!

[Publius]

Wow! He just got my vote with his education response. That's been my solution too, except I would add that bad teachers couldn't hold down a job at McDonald's.

[Jane]

Boy Chris Kofenis is a two time loser isn't he? He worked for Edwards and Wesley Clark, both now under the bus.

[PaulL]

Thank you, Jane!

[Porchlight]

I think it's because McCain actually knows what he thinks, where Obama only knows what he wants.

Perfectly said, Charlie.

[JM Hanes]

Hurray for Jane! I totally whiffed the Warren interviews, although maybe that's because I was really a little afraid to watch. Thanks soooo much for live blogging it! I'm delighted to hear that not only did McCain apparently do himself proud but that Obama also met our collective expectations.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Hah, Carl Cameron is bringing up the "sell out" letter McCain sent to Obama. Lets see if that gets around.

[Elliott]

Bravissima, Jane.

[bad]

Jane, that was awesome!! I shoulda read yours and skipped mine.

[glenda waggoner]

Thanks bunches, Jane--great posting!
Did O really say that snide "intelligent" remark about Clarence Thomas? What a jerk! Let's compare accomplishments and grades, why don't we?
Also, can you imagine even if Clinton would have gone there? And if a republican had, they would have been tarred and feathered for sure!

[Topsecretk9]

but GAWD DAMMIT GWB forged a Saddam letter no one ever knew about!!!! FORGERY!!!!

War crimes tribunal!

(so sayeth the leftards)

[Topsecretk9]

but GAWD DAMMIT GWB forged a Saddam letter no one ever knew about!!!! FORGERY!!!!

War crimes tribunal!

(so sayeth the leftards)

[Topsecretk9]

but GAWD DAMMIT GWB forged a Saddam letter no one ever knew about!!!! FORGERY!!!!

War crimes tribunal!

(so sayeth the leftards)

[paul a'barge]

Chinks cheat.

Gah. Who cares? Really.

[sbw]

Who cares?

Sad that you don't know why to care.

When someone lies to you, they upset your mental map of reality that is the only tool you've got to plan your best future. When someone lies, they undermine you and all society.

So, answer your question. Who cares?

Really.

[Don Meaker]

To deemphasize the "medal count" the olympics should give an "Iron Medal" to all competitors.

[sophy]

I do not know how to use the twelvesky Gold ; my friend tells me how to use.