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August 24, 2008


Danube of Thought

Allow me to make a Sherman-like statement on Powell's behalf: he won't do it even if he's asked.

bio mom

I remember a few years back reading an article about Jill Biden and Joe at a luncheon for Muslims in Davos, at the conference held there each year. They were late. And when they came in, Jill was wearing a leather outfit. Apparently this is very offensive to Muslims and was a major mistake. So much for Joe Biden’s brilliance in foreign policy matters.


glenda waggoner

From your post to God's ears!
Then announce he's keeping Gates at Defense.
Romney at Treasury. Lieberman at State.
Wouldn't it be outstanding to see Joe and the Princes of Arabias?
Must stop projecting, heh?


Then McCain would learn what it's like to work with a maverick who stabbed him in the back at every opportunity, wouldn't he?

bio mom

McCain's vulnerability is the economy. His military creds are fine. Why take Powell? It won't swing any minority votes his way.


Why should he pick for Vice-President, a Secrretary of State who didn't want us to win in Iraq?


Powell would be a better 1st black prez than Beau Bama. LOL Clarice.

It could have benefit for holding some moderates and independents with a white guilt complex.

Kim, I'd say Powell was more afraid of losing. Certainly too savy to throw a win away. He's a better fit with John than he was with W.


Since the subtext of this thread is Joe Biden, let me offer a conjecture extrapolated from my experience in business.

Rather than enabling and promoting excellence, some executives are so insecure that they promote people they believe are less competent than they are. The second tier becomes second rate.

Although I haven't read Goodwin's book on Lincoln's cabinet, he promoted the best he could find. I'm not sure, with Biden, that Obama did.


Colin Powell's "gravitas" came and went a few years ago.

I don't think people think of him favorably, as once they did.


A better fit, boris, but et tu brute, too. Surely McCain is smarter than to put a backstabber like Powell as his back-up and replacement.


centralcal, I actively accuse Powell of extending the war and causing American casualties by his lukewarm efforts to support Bush's quest. He, or Armitage, could have shut down the Libby thing in short order, had they the will. It is on him.


'Them' is better than 'him'.


I had a similar thought last night, sbw, I almost posted it. Something like Obama gazing over at Joe and saying or thinking: "I'll bet I have a higher IQ than you" Har, de har, har.


Oh, I am thinking about equal IQ's, Kim - they just reveal in different ways.


"Powell as Veep" is not so much a trial balloon as a barrage balloon


Powell was not a successful Secretary of State, either for the President or for the country, and I wonder about his State Department minions.

Yet I will always admire his letter to Pat Leahy on the American flag, and his statement at the 2003 World Economic Forum in Davos -- I'd put the link in but worry about the comment eater -- in answer to a question from the former archbishop of Canterbury:

We have gone forth from our shores repeatedly over the last hundred years -- and we’ve done this as recently as the last year in Afghanistan -- and put wonderful young men and women at risk, many of whom have lost their lives, and we have asked for nothing except enough ground to bury them in, and otherwise we have returned home to seek our own, you know, to seek our own lives in peace, to live our own lives in peace. But there comes a time when soft power or talking with evil will not work where, unfortunately, hard power is the only thing that works.

Michael Kennedy

Powell is too old as he is the same age as McCain (born 1937). God, he is even older than am ! Romney is just not an inspired choice. If he picked Sarah Palin or Bobby Jindal, he could say that at least he put the less experienced one second on the ticket instead of at the top. I don't know about Meg Whitman's speaking skills.


In Tom's link to Davos, what invasion of Iraq was he talking about?

glenda waggoner

Everyone must go to Pajamas Media and read Clarice's article about the CAC and Obama and the media's coverup. Just insert McCain everytime she writes Obama and imagine what the press would have done with this story.
There is a link on "Calling Captain America"
I guess the 527's are waiting until after Tuesday to see what Daley decides to release of the records. Oh, that Chicago machine at work.
Education is important to everyone in this election. Even when we have diplomas in our children's hands, comes grandchildren. We
are raising our grandson, who is on the autism spectrum, and believe me on this, you have to know your stuff and work the system hard to get the minimal help needed.
I was lucky to get seasoned(old fogeys) to hear my pleas and the State of Texas actually came and reviewed the way special education classes were not doing it for autistics, adhd and dyslexic children. The system has changed from that review where they now mainstream children like Colin, and he has blossomed. You stop the old ways/union teacher-of put them in a box and close the door while paying extra$ to attend seminars and actually teach a child and you get--results! Evidently the CAC threw money at cronies, not education, and they failed. This is not change, hope or the tide rising, this is socialist bureaucratic carp. When I think of the speech therapy and occupational therapy and tutoring and mentoring that CAC could have paid for but instead gave $ to educators like Ayers and ?Klonsky? Well, you know--we cannot elect fluffy vapid trustees of other's money run this country.
Sorry, for the rant, but everyone needs to read Clarice and Tom's words and take action.
Who, by the way, would be a good Secretary of Education under McCain?


Richard Armitage knew on May 29 2003 that Joe Wilson was the anonymous source for Kristof's article. How could he and Powell not know about the coming coup on July 6th?


Ms Rhee,glenda. She's the young Korean-American DC's Mayor Fenty bravely put in charge of our school system and who has been making history here from day one. She is utterly outside the education establishment.


"The former secretary of state was among potential vice presidential choices McCain was considering when he indicated he would not rule out a supporter of abortion rights, Politico reported Sunday."

Past tense. I think McCain has already made his choice, and it's not Powell.


"he won't do it even if he's asked.'

Danger! Danger!

Powell might even express doubts about Ahab's
Compass. (Another nightmare for McCain)


Colin Powell is a fence ridding, pro abortion, doesn't want to win in Iraq, craw fishing liberal.
So McCain will probably give him serious consideration.


It would be delicious if McCain selected Hillary Clinton as his running mate.


No offense TM, but Powell isn't going to swift-boat obama like the current McCain campaign and you are so desperately trying. Like one of McCain's prior advisers who quit -- I really doubt Powell wants to be apart of the "honorable" campaign McCain is running. You really are become delusional.


McCain's vulnerability is the economy. His military creds are fine.

Bio mom is right. The GOP has the guns, they have to focus on the butter. The Dems are going to make Biden out to be Joe Sixpack and harp on how many houses McCain and Romney own.

And that might be the GOP's Achilles heel in this election. Americans are funny. We would all love to be rich and when the economy is riding high, businessmen are heroes. But when it's not, corporations and CEOs are villified. The Dems are going to play class warfare for all it's worth to deflect attention from their own elitism. A commentator at NRO has it right - the GOP has to pound middle class tax relief or they'll lose despite the zillion obvious flaws of the Dem ticket.

But for her inexperience (only 2 years as gov., before that a small-town mayor), Sarah Palin would be the perfect foil for Biden. Her husband's a commercial fisherman. And it would be wonderful if she could make McCain see the light regarding ANWR drilling. If only she had a few more years as gov. under her belt.

But I'm not sure Palin even wants the job. Can you blame her? If you were a hunting, shooting, fishin' outdoorswoman would you trade Alaska for a shot at being VP and living in DC and dealing with characters like Biden and Pelosi all day?

glenda waggoner

clarice, I do hope McCain is reading JOM. It is more educational than TV or the papers.
Off to research "how to give medical fundraiser in small town" and Ms. Rhee!


"It would be delicious if McCain selected Hillary Clinton as his running mate."

Not as delicious as the endorsement of Chuck Hagel and Richard Lugar................


The Dems Veep in a Hearing


JM Hanes


Campaign officials say McCain has told them not to discuss the process.

Which I doubt they are actually doing. This looks like a dual purpose "leak."

They may well be trying to forestall a rumored Powell endorsement of Obama. Powell's excessive preoccupation with his own public image might be enough to discourage him from potentially looking like a turncoat yet again (he was on McCain's shortlist, didn't get the job, changes sides!) even if he were given the usual racial dispensation for supporting the first black President.

Given the controversy which errupted over the possible choice of Lieberman and Ridge, they may also be trying to redeem themselves by offering an alternative narrative -- which suggests that those two gentlemen are off the list.


I take this as yet another good piece of campaign 'news' management by Team McCain. Powell is a media darling, so they couldn't help but pay attention to the 'news.' It keeps McCain's name in the 'news cycle' on a day that should be all Dems with the convention kick coming up. Well played.


"No offense TM, but Powell isn't going to swift-boat obama like the current McCain campaign"

Poor obama,not even worth a capital O now jork?


It's no secret that Powell was at hammers and tongs--wait--knives and dagger point with the neocons surrounding Bush when Powell was SoS. I'm not up enough on McCain to guess at the lay of the land in a McCain WH, but McCain having Schuenemann as his top foreign policy guy suggests that Powell wouldn't be any happier as VP. Still, it's an intriguing idea to me.

BTW, that's part of my theory on the whole Libby case. I haven't changed my mind on Libby's guilt--he wasn't. But I think the whole feud between DoS (Powell, Armitage), the WH and DoD played into the reason DoS didn't act to clear Libby. Not honorable, but it seems they adopted an "all's fair..." approach. This is also, I believe, part of why the FBI and CIA were so eager to "get" Libby--policy arguments by other means. Also not honorable, but I believe from what I've heard that this kind of thing goes on in WDC.

Randell Young

The best choice by far is Condi Rice.

She's a known quantity. She’s thoroughly vetted. She's more qualified to be president than Obama, Biden or McCain. She's a great speaker and debater. She does not make gaffes. She exudes real class because she is real class.

This idea that she ties McCain to Bush is a fallacy. She ties McCain to the future and breaks the glass ceiling for women and blacks. She gives the disgruntled Clinton supporters a reason to vote for McCain. She blunts the get-out-the-vote effort for Obama because either way now, blacks have one of their own in the White House. She immediately energizes the McCain campaign and, unlike, Barack Obama, the more America sees of Condi, the more they will like her.

McCain can win with Condi.


Just a minor quibble. The whole state of Michigan is not in Democrat hands. The Attorney General is a Republican. So is the SoS I think. Plus the Senate remains in Republican control there. Its not nearly as deep a blue state as some seem to think. I think Obama is in trouble there and look for us to know that early on the evening of the first tuesday in November as its in the Eastern time zone.

Arleigh Burke

Rice and Powell are jokes. They can't do their jobs and no one wants them. They go overseas and everyone puts up with them. Obama goes to France. Gee, those French sure got hurt in NATO.

These people cost Americans every day. They're not worth it regardless of their excuses for being second rate and owed for jobs. The terrorists love these and they love saying that they're the same as anyone else. Bill freed Bin laden.

I still got to write!!! Back button doesn't delete!!!


Michigan economy which is presided over by Dems at all levels of state Gov’t,

This is what I was responding to. Republican can and do get elected in Michigan, and Kwame has poisoned the well for Obama with all of his antics and Mrs Conyers is adding arsenic to the brew.


Anduril: I haven't changed my mind on Libby's guilt--he wasn't.

And I haven't changed my mind about FitzAhab, either. Misuse of the justice system to get a big fish.


Not as delicious as the endorsement of Chuck Hagel and Richard Lugar................

Hagel has already said he is not endorsing anyone, and Lugar as far as I know has never been seriously considering anything except the Republican candidate so this is just idle speculation on someone's part.

Meantime, former V/P nominee Lieberman will be on the stage at the RNC and if I heard Geraldine Ferrarro correctly, there may well be another former Democrat party nominee for McCain in the near future!

You are stuck with former Republican Lincoln Chafee and loser former Rep JIM Leach as the only Obamacan I can think of.


anduril:"I believe from what I've heard that this kind of thing goes on in WDC."
Too droll.

I think you're right, but those involved ought to look at Andrea Mitchell and see what fate does to people who behave like that. And all the botox in the world doesn't work to fix a reverse Dorian Gray syndrome.


As to FitzAhab, that's where the system broke down. Prosecutors are supposed to be interested in justice before the law, not taking sides in political disputes. Prosecution is not supposed to = politics by other means. Him using witnesses like Mitchell and the guy from Buffalo--my mind's gone blank on him--was wrong. De mortuis nihil nisi what?


Powell was almost as bad at Secy of State as Carter as President. And, if his own image is at stake, you cannot count on his loyalty. He would be a terrible terrible pick. Powell Peter Principled out at least back as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.


No to Powell. Career military politician. And that's not a compliment. Some in the Army are soldiers who grudgingly do a D.C. tour. There are others who make their career in D.C.

Powell could not convince me to support a socialist like Obama, but putting him on the ticket could convince me not to bother voting for McCain.


Anduril, the guy from Buffalo was the former Tim Russert, rest his soul. He'd probably roll over in his grave to have his name so soon forgotten.


And, Anduril, we shall speak ill of the dead only when it fits our own selfish purposes. ;-)

We need not do it here.


Ah, yes. I also had to ask my wife for Bhutto's name just now on the other thread. I shouldn't reveal this, but she gives me most of my rough stuff.

Wasn't Russert Irish, and didn't Doc Johnson famously say: "The Irish, sir, are an honest folk. They never speak well of one another." Or something like that.


Gallup had Obama up two points yesterday; today they are tied at 45.

What percentage of Obama supporters had ever heard of Joe Biden before yesterday, do you suppose?


Bouncing down the stairs?

Dennis D

Powell should have been Sec of Defense Not State. I doubt he would accept but if he did wow. I am sure he could reduce the Dem black vote from 98% to lets say 80% this year.

Terry Gain

"It would be delicious if McCain selected Hillary Clinton as his running mate".
Posted by: sam
Since when is a poisonous stew delicious?

We have the passed over scold right where we want her: Mad as hell and not going to take it any more.

Terry Gain

I have been a staunch supporter of this communications-challenged president. He has generally done what needed to be done to respond to the attacks on civilization by the Islamofascists.

But suggesting that Condi Rice has not been gross disappointment goes too far. Rice has wasted the last two years catering to the Palestinians - a tribe which has proved, to the point of perfection, that it is not interested in peace.

Rice is the worst Secretary of State since her predecessor. Colin Powell would have known that his deputy, Armitrage, had "outed" Plame and yet he stayed silent while Bush and Cheney and their staffs not only took the heat but faced criminal prosecution. Despicable.

Rocco at 12:45 scored a knockout and, as usual, Sara is right.

M. Simon

No offense TM, but Powell isn't going to swift-boat obama

He won't tell the truth about Obama? OK.

BTW did Kerry ever find his Magic Hat and what ever other paraphernalia he lost while he was doing Christmas in Cambodia?


in reading about Colin Powell's record over the past 15 years, I have to say the last time I was comfortable with the job he did was when he was still in uniform. Since then, he has not fared well in the eyes of a lot of the people who worked with him.

M. Simon

I still like Palin. She is from an oil state without all the baggage of Texas.

And a quasi-libertarian on the ticket might draw a few Paulettes.

Terry Gain

Kerry's use the the term "swiftboat" to describe the the allegedly untruthful statements of his fellow soldiers is but his ultimate smear of the "comrades" who served more honorably than he did.

Their only sin was to take exception to his smears and lies about his own service.


I'll go with the Powerline blog prediction: Tim Pawlenty. He's young (47) yet experienced (6 years as governor), inoffensive to the evangelicals and will have no trouble attacking Obama when needed.

Maybe Romney would accept an economic advisor position?


The Powerline boys are pushing Pawlenty as their hometown pick. No one else in the country, outside of bloggers, has every heard of him.

JM Hanes

M. Simon:

I've never understood the enthusiasm for Palin. She got some great polar bear PR in Republican circles, but she doesn't have a lot of major accomplishments to her name yet, and she's the governor of a largely unpopulated state which is not at risk in the election. If Hillary actually comes out with anything remotely resembling a unity message, her posited pull on disaffected Dem women will be effectively wiped out. The likelihood that those now threatening to vote McCain or abstain will really do so months down the road seems seriously overstated to me in any case, although I could be wrong. Outside of that, what does she really bring to the table?

McCain has already got a near lock on the oil issue with off shore drilling. Where's the ostensible gain in disturbing the bees nest that ANWAR represents by gratuitously adding it into the mix now -- as opposed to when he's actually made it into office? It seems to me that Palin would be more helpful when that time comes as governor than VP. In the meantime, folks who would never vote for Obama in the first place might be pleased as punch, but the potential cross overs who like his enviro stance on global warming and greening up would desert his ship en masse.

JM Hanes

M. Simon:

I realize you didn't specifically tout putting ANWAR on the table above; it's just one of the things I hear her cheerleaders promoting.


Some funny stuff in this Halperin article:

Is Obama overshooting?

As national polling has shown a closer race, the good news for Obama is that almost all of the solidly blue states won by Gore and Kerry are still safely in his column -- anchored by New England, New York, the Mid-Atlantic states and the West Coast.

Wow, almost all of the states Gore and Kerry won solidly - and yet still lost the election with - are lining up for the Messiah. Pretty impressive.

The article reads to me like a setup excuse for "why Obama lost" articles in November. Kind of like when the Hillary campaign began to leak all its management problems at the end of the primary. In Dems' minds they never lose because the voters reject their message and/or their candidates. It's always gotta be some tactical error or the wrong "framing."

M. Simon

Where's the ostensible gain in disturbing the bees nest that ANWAR represents by gratuitously adding it into the mix now

Actually that is exactly the value I see. Discrediting the enviros.

Getting them into a hysterical lather would be a perfect way to make McCain look reasonable on drilling.

And those who want to vote for "historic" reasons would have a reason.


The General in "Mars Attacks" nailed Powell perfectly: "Honey, I told you if I just kept my mouth shut..."

No, no, no... a thousand times no.

JM Hanes


It's always gotta be some tactical error or the wrong "framing."

Not to mention the fact that all those southern, working class, yahoos inexplicably persist in voting against their own best interests -- the default explanation being stupidity, of course.

JM Hanes

M. Simon:

Discrediting the enviros

That's an uphill battle that won't be won in the next two months -- when it will be reinforcing the Republican's piss poor reputation on environmental issues, giving new life to the Bush/McCain meme, and further compromising McCain's enviro-friendly stance on global warming which is currently gathering welcome dust in the campaign closet. If that's Palin's main attraction, the case for plugging her into the VP slot is even weaker than I thought.


Powell has been too close to Prince Bandar, since the latter was Air Attache, before becoming the Ambassador for Life.(Matt Welch pointed this out) As an aide to Weinberger, he helped formulate the doctrine that protected Hezbollah in Lebanon,and left the Shia in the lurch after Safwan, in order not to tarnish the spotless record of the '100 hour land campaign. This policy probably led to the Iraqi Shia turning more to the Sadrist and
later Badr ranks of the SCIRI and later encouraged Al Queda's almost untrammelled growth in the mid to late 90s. Not that Gen.Hoar and Zinni, did any better in the region. In retirement he was part of the Baku Chamber of Commerce and involved the AIOC; along with Baker, Scowcroft, and of course, Armitage. Consequently, they didn't want to upset the apple cart in Central Asia (even though the Russians had already blown up the cart,and used the wood for kindling) and It would really be
dissapointing if McCain were even lightly considering Powell.


I like that: 'Baku Chamber of Commerce'.

Jim Rhoads aka vnjagvet

I think the most plausible explanation advanced above, Narciso, is a sneaky leak to keep Powell safely off of the Obama reservation in the off chance he might be so inclined.


the default explanation being stupidity, of course

Per Thomas Frank, it would be the GOP's insidious tactics - which the electorate has to be stupid enough to fall for, so there again you are right.

Yeah, Dems really have a low regard for voters, any way you slice it.


Spot on narciso...as usual. From Ed Lasky at AT, Colinoscopy: examining Colin Powell


Let me try that again Colinoscopy:examining Colin Powell


Baku's Chamber of Commerce on the brain, because of the pipeline,the 'Crimson Tide' references I've made earlier; and that almost Monbiot level James Bond film about
Azeri oil, that had Denise Richards in it; playing in Moebius loop on AMC, along with
"Golden Eye". Hopefully they use it to weaken the will of detainees at Gitmo, but that would be probably considered against the Geneva Convention.

Tom Frank's naivete or delusion, about how the world works, recalls similar attitudes
by the likes of Upton Sinclair. Of course,
Sinclair was much more subtle than Franks could ever be, as "Oil" his "Citizen Plainview" take on Edward Doheny and the emerging oil industry in Southern California. Upton who was taken in by the Russian experiment in terror and deprivation,paint the Bolshevik's and their state side sympathizers in such glowing terms, relayed through the eyes of his gullible son, "Bunny" while the likes of Plainview/Ross are viewed as such
malefactors,financiers of industrial spies, doubledealers in the First World War,
puppets of Presidents, with Tea Pot Dome
as the archetypal examples, abetters of the 'opiate of the masses, et al. Three quarters of a century and reporting/analysis
has become even more anemic.


Hey, narciso, can you list all the others who were part of the Baku Chamber of Commerce? Or are you referring to Powell's membership in the US Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce (USACC) (Baku being the capital of Azerbaijan, for the geographically challenged).

Here are links on that outfit. Powell had some interesting company:

US Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce

Catalysts of conflict in Central Asia

One of the Board of Trustees was very recently reported by the WSJ to be in an oil consortium in the region. A big time advocate of the Iraq invasion:

Perle Linked to Kurdish Oil Plan.

(The WSJ link requires a subscription, which I have, but I thought it best to link to a non-subscription version, even though they're identical.)


"The Powerline boys are pushing Pawlenty as their hometown pick. No one else in the country, outside of bloggers, has every heard of him."

I used to have the same opinion. But given the Biden pick, which brings no states to the table for Obama, Pawlenty becomes more interesting....he is much more articulate than Biden and if Minnesota and Wisconsin and Iowa are close he could make a difference. And his blue collar roots could help. Not a bold pick but neither was Obama's.


Earth to narciso--what's happenin' bro'?

M. Simon

Discrediting the enviros

That's an uphill battle that won't be won in the next two months --

Actually I think it can be done when it comes to drilling for US oil. Which will weaken them on a lot of other issues.

In any case McCain has been doing the impossible so far. If they frame the issue right they can do it again.

In any case - we shall see.

What does McCain have going for hi? No fear.

How about Obama - Biden is proof that he is full of fear.

Glitz and Ditz
Clean and Jerk
Rainbow and Vanilla
Smarmy and Smirky

M. Simon

Uh Oh.


M. Simon



I can see Romney helping with Nevada, but Michigan? If Michigan does flip, I suspect that Obama's and Biden's F ratings from the NRA will have a lot more to do with it than warm feelings about Mitt's dad.



Interesting poll, Nevada is Mac's


Here's Rick Moran's take on the Powell VP speculation (I didn't think this warranted any bold type):

Powell is also a supporter of affirmative action as it is applied now. But he's well respected inside the Beltway and by most Americans who value his honesty and integrity.

But in addition to his pro choice, pro affirmative action beliefs, Powell has been playing games with the GOP these last few months. He has held off endorsing McCain and for a while, it was even thought he was going to give the thumbs up to Obama. He does not like some of John McCain's foreign policy advisors although he appears to be friendly with Secretary of Defense Gates who has been mentioned as either DCIA or to continue in his current position.

McCain and Powell get along fine, however, and that's the relationship that counts the most.\

But it is not going to happen. Anyone McCain chooses at this point is going to tick off some part of the GOP base but there's no sense in having a revolt on your hands at the convention if he chooses a pro-choice running mate. Powell would be a desperation choice - and McCain is not desperate.

We'll find out Friday.


Moran's comments were, IMO, deeply...well, fine.


Here it is: The Hacker Test: More Linux and Unix Humor. I stopped after "scoring."

Charlie (Colorado)

What percentage of Obama supporters had ever heard of Joe Biden before yesterday, do you suppose?

I guess it's time to play math geek again. The margin of error in the poll is rather more than 2 percent. What that means is that, statistically, any margin less than that is indistinguishable from any other: 2 percentage points in that situation just means they were tied and they remain tied. You can't infer anything about the change in polls if it's that small.

Now, if McCain is 4 points ahead tomorrow, you'll have something.

simply stupid

The VP picck should be Heather Wilson Congresswoman from New Mexico. Will run circles around Joe and Barry. Has energy and Foreign Affairs credentials.

Thomas Jackson

By all means please pick Powell. Then we can all bury the Reagan ghost and celebrate the new Dhimmirat Party. Or can we just sell a video and call it RINOs Gone Wild?

Charlie (Colorado)

Okay, folks, it's started. My first day's coverage is up at PJM.


Coal mine railroad riots,
Death laden coal trains.
Pueblo has shades.
Between Sangre's hazes
And Wolf Creek pazes
Much amazes.


Coal mine railroad riots,
Death laden coal trains.
Pueblo has shades.
Between Sangre's hazes
And Wolf Creek pazes
Much amazes


Please do not hesitate to have knight gold . It is funny.

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