Joe Biden is the VP pick. It's interesting how far off the table the war in Iraq has fallen as an issue for the Democrats - Biden voted for the fateful resolution in 2002 (isn't this all about judgment?) and has not been much of a proponent of willy-nilly withdrawal, and yet here he is. Some snippets from this collection of his thoughts:
From Sept 2007, Meet The Press:
Q: Will you insist on a firm withdrawal date?
A: I will insist on a target date to get American combat forces out, all but those who are necessary to protect our civilians that are remaining there, and to deal with al-Qaeda.
Q: If the president does not accept a firm withdrawal date, will you vote to cut off funding?
A: I will vote, as long as there's a single troop in there, for the money necessary to protect them, period.
Q: Many Democrats who will vote in the primary will say "The only way to stop this war is to cut off funding. Everything else is small talk, and unless you're willing to do that, you will not be the Democratic nominee."
A: You need 67 votes to cut that off. All 51 votes will do is delay building these vehicles [with armor to protect troops]. And if you tell me I've got to take away this protection for these kids in order to win the election, some things aren't worth it. Some things are worth losing over. That would be worth losing over.
Also from that Meet The Press:
Q: Your presidential campaign has a political ad about Iraq:
NARRATOR: "In a world this dangerous, with a crisis as tough as Iraq, hard truths need to be told. Joe Biden says this war must end now."
Q: In 2005, you said: "We can call it quits and withdraw from Iraq. I think that would be a gigantic mistake. Or we can set a deadline for pulling out, which I fear will only encourage our enemies to wait us out--equally a mistake." You've changed your mind?
A: Well, I have changed my mind, but I haven't changed my mind in any fundamental way. If you go back, I [always said] you need a political solution. And there's time, I thought back then, if the administration had been wiser, to generate a political solution allowing us to pull out. Now the situation we're in, if the president continues to insist on this strategically-flawed notion of being able to establish a central government that can control Iraq before we leave, I ain't buying into that.
That refes to his Biden plan to split Iraq into three federated states, which was at least a plan for something resembling stability and victory.
And here was a whiff of reality from Aug 2007 (my emphasis):
Q: What if al Qaeda takes over Iraq?
A: You know, Bush has not told the truth for seven years; it's time we tell the truth. The truth is if al Qaeda establishes a base in Iraq, all these people who talk about going into Pakistan are going to have to send your kids back to Iraq. And so the fact of the matter is it matters how we get out of Iraq. Separate the parties. Give them control over their own security. Begin to draw down our troops. But let's start talking the truth to the American people.
I like the way he begins that with some Bush-bashing in an attempt to bond with is base.
Let's note that the Council on Foreign Relations describes Biden as a fierce war critic (the same could have been said of McCain, one might argue). Biden did oppose the surge, so he has gone 0 for 2 at crunch time.
MORE: Ron "The Dean" Fournier of the AP is scathing:
DENVER – The candidate of change went with the status quo.
In picking Sen. Joe Biden to be his running mate, Barack Obama sought to shore up his weakness — inexperience in office and on foreign policy — rather than underscore his strength as a new-generation candidate defying political conventions.
He picked a 35-year veteran of the Senate — the ultimate insider — rather than a candidate from outside Washington, such as Govs. Tim Kaine of Virginia or Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas; or from outside his party, such as Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska; or from outside the mostly white male club of vice presidential candidates. Hillary Rodham Clinton didn't even make his short list.
And a Brit braces the Euros for possible defeat with the news that Obama does not have this in the bag with a cogent overview of the race that concludes thusly:
The key to understanding the presidential campaign as it enters its phase of maximum intensity is this. The more the campaign is about the concerns of the American voter, especially the state of the economy but also the general anxiety about the direction of the country, the more likely they are to throw the Republicans out.
But the uncomfortable truth for the many devoted fans of Senator Obama is that the more the race is about him, the less likely he is to win it.
I MAY DISAGREE WITH GOLDBERG HERE: Jonah:
I think it is an outright terrible decision on Obama's part to pick Biden. Yes, he helps balance Obama's inexperience on foreign policy, but he also reminds people of it. Yes, Biden could conceivably be effective as an attack dog. But Biden is such a gasbag he makes the Hindenburg look like a sack of rocks. Obama doesn't need to increase his lip-flapping quotient.
OK, Biden and Barack may come off as the "Just Words - and lots of 'em" Dream Team. OTOH, Biden may be best equipped to make Barack look laconic. And the inevitable gaffes from Biden should distract nicely from the inevitable gaffes from Obama.
JERALYN MERRITT: A long time Hilary supporter is holding her nose.
Seems to me that the Kos crowd will be apoplectic over this choice. And then there's the Hillary crowd...
Posted by: Danube of Thought | August 23, 2008 at 10:33 AM
I can't imagine the Durantys at PMSNBC are too happy with this; Matthews with dead-leg syndrome and Olberdunce staying in the bathtub until November 6.
Posted by: Captain Hate | August 23, 2008 at 10:41 AM
By choosing Biden, Obama has unilaterally stepped into a quagmire with no exit plan.
Posted by: Perfect Sense | August 23, 2008 at 10:44 AM
Judgement?
So, if McCain says he won’t run again (even if he does) will all the disaffected Clintionists either stay home or vote for him?
Posted by: MarkO | August 23, 2008 at 10:47 AM
Who gives a friggin' fig what Biden's foreign policy strategies are, he's not gonna be
Prez'.
Y'all know EXACTLY why he was chosen, don'cha?
Talk about VICIOUS. He'll have McCaine sputtering with spittle. Ahab won't be content letting someone else answer Biden's
Barbs. He'll insist on doing it hisself, 'cause, you know, he's McCain.
Posted by: Semanticleo | August 23, 2008 at 10:48 AM
Slow Joe Biden is not gonna let the Democrats get swiftboated this time around by golly! Do I have the meme correct?
Well at least when he drones on and attacks we will finally have one less DNC meme to deal with.
Swiftboating means telling the truth about someone record, by the way. And Kerry to this day has not refuted one thing the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth said about him and his dubious record.
Posted by: GMax | August 23, 2008 at 10:56 AM
Kos says:
This has been the best veep rollout EVER. . . . [I]is there a better example than this that old media is getting left out in the cold?
sure buddy, 3AM on a Saturday morning
Posted by: windansea | August 23, 2008 at 11:01 AM
Talk about VICIOUS.
Well, Biden is kinda slimy and underhanded and prickly but vicious doesn't come to mind. Pompous and not self aware seem a little more on mark. The word cockalorum was invented for knotheads like Biden.
He'll have McCaine sputtering with spittle.
While I confess communist torture techniques probably can't hold a candle to the agony of listening to one of Joe's endless, droning stemwinders I'll guess that McCain will at least be able to keep his lapels dry.
Posted by: Barney Frank | August 23, 2008 at 11:07 AM
"Y'all know EXACTLY why he was chosen, don'cha?"
QUACK quack quack quack quack...
Posted by: Danube of Thought | August 23, 2008 at 11:07 AM
windansea--I haven't seen you around for a while.
Posted by: clarice | August 23, 2008 at 11:07 AM
Leo, if it works it will have been an inspired choice. But McCain and Biden have been dueling for decades, and I'll bet it's a lot easier to rile Biden than McCain.
====================================
Posted by: kim | August 23, 2008 at 11:11 AM
Biden has been there longer than Castro. He won't let other people serve. Obama wants change.
Obama hates term limits. He got his opportunity and he's just going to pay off his pals.
McCain's ad is pretty neat. Obama isn't ready and won't be; Biden has been in Congress for 35+ years, so he thinks he can buy how to be President.
Posted by: Rar | August 23, 2008 at 11:12 AM
"Y'all know EXACTLY why he was chosen, don'cha?"
QUACK quack quack quack quack...
Posted by: Danube of Thought | August 23, 2008 at 11:12 AM
Jeez...a double quack.
Posted by: Danube of Thought | August 23, 2008 at 11:13 AM
JERALYN MERRITT: A long time Hilary supporter is holding her nose.
She actually says in the comments section of one of the threads that after this she is undecided about voting for Obama or leaving the top of the ballot blank...
To paraphrase LBJ, if you've lost talk left, you've lost the election.
Posted by: Ranger | August 23, 2008 at 11:16 AM
I think Biden is a good choice for Obama. At least for me...because should Obama win, I want someone that at least knows stuff about foreign policy in that office with him. I can imagine Biden telling Susan Rice to stuff it.
Posted by: MayBee | August 23, 2008 at 11:20 AM
Earlier this morning on a different thread I linked a TNR profile of Biden. I'm relinking the article, Rhetorical Question, properly formatted this time (with my trademark bolding added, for the convenience of skimmers). It dates from 2001, but I've seen nothing over the intervening years that would suggest that Biden has changed, grown or...matured. Since he's supposed to be a foreign policy whiz, this time I've included the closing paragraphs as well as the beginning, to give a flavor of Biden's "thinking" on two foreign policy issues that just happen to be of pressing concern to the US. More now than in 2001. This first few paragraphs simply provides a sort of vignette of Biden's "personality." I suspect Washington, D.C., and the political world in general are awash in Biden stories of this sort:
And speaking of foreign relations--which will almost certainly be front and center in this campaign (as the Dems seem to expect with the Biden choice)--here's a provocative article from Pravda: Will Russia Force Rebirth of Realism. And here's a red meat quote:
The author is optimistic that Russia's action will force a return to realism in foreign policy. I'm not as optimistic, given the calibre of foreign policy thinking exhibited by both the Obama and the McCain camps to date. I also disagree with the author in another respect, and am more optimistic than he is. He believes that the continued prevalence of neocons in foreign policy thought on the GOP side may lead to greater confrontation with Russia in the coming years. I'm not so sure about that. While there has certainly been the usual hawkish rhetoric, I've documented during the past week what appears to be a significant degree of dissent from neocon orthodoxy in this current turn of events, including at such normally stalwart neocons sites as AT, NR and PJMedia. That, I believe, gives reason for cautious optimism.
Posted by: anduril | August 23, 2008 at 11:20 AM
Last time they couldn't get one blue state Liberal(who served in Vietnam) and one Southerner elected. So, this time they think they can get TWO blue state Liberals elected.
This should be fun.
Posted by: Pofarmer | August 23, 2008 at 11:21 AM
It's the wind and gas(bag) ticket.
Posted by: clarice | August 23, 2008 at 11:24 AM
"2024. President Biden, now 82 and in the last year of his second term, didn't even open the morning's economic report. It would be the same as the one before it and the one before that. He no longer read them anymore. With the Depression now in its tenth year, his mind often drifted back to the glory days of 14 or 15 years ago, when everything seemed so sure and it was just he and Barack against the world. When unemployment figures of over 20% had driven the president out of his mind, he had been forced as VP {to take the helm. But to no avail, as tax increases and new programs didn't seem to right the ship. He..."
etc.
Posted by: Jim | August 23, 2008 at 11:24 AM
I guess this was the O camp thinking:
He looks like he knows something about foreign affairs and we don't.
Secondly, he's an attack dog and we can send him out to do the dirty work while we play head in the clouds hopey changey games.
Posted by: clarice | August 23, 2008 at 11:27 AM
"I'll bet it's a lot easier to rile Biden than McCain."
Mebbe so, but TAG-TEAM wrestling lets Obama
take the high road. McCain will be flyin' just above the deck with reckless disregard because, you know, he's McCain.
Posted by: Semanticleo | August 23, 2008 at 11:28 AM
windansea--I haven't seen you around for a while.
I read but don't always have time to comment, besides you guys always cover all angles quite well.
I did use your tip awhile back saying dollar would go up vs Euro, made me look good on a Mexican forum :)
Posted by: windansea | August 23, 2008 at 11:30 AM
How did Biden avoid the draft?
Not the dread student deferrments I hope.
In any event I expect the Koskids to be in the streets shortly, protesting this militant chickenhawk ticket which continues beating the wardrums for escalation in Afghanistan.
Posted by: Barney Frank | August 23, 2008 at 11:31 AM
The only thing that could make this weekend better would be for the donks to bring in their closer: Bob '0-8' Shrum.
Dean, you unmagnificent bastard!
Posted by: Captain Hate | August 23, 2008 at 11:34 AM
Shrum Shrum I'm going to fight for you!!!
Posted by: clarice | August 23, 2008 at 11:41 AM
Weird rollout. Predictable, Boring Choice.
I don't think this will hurt Obama though. I occasionally think Biden talks some sense. Not all the time, of course, but occasionally, which is more than I can say for a lot of Dems.
I'm still sad about Bill Richardson not being anywhere. He was my favorite candidate on the dem side by far, which of course means he went nowhere fast.
Posted by: Lea | August 23, 2008 at 11:43 AM
Sending a $200 Million check to Iran would be a great way to "show the Arab world that we're not bent on its destruction," if only Iran were part of the Arab world. Is Biden aware that Iranians are not Arabs?
I've been worrying about the absence of Shrum myself. With any luck, they'll sign him up soon.
Posted by: Danube of Thought | August 23, 2008 at 11:50 AM
"I'm not so sure about that. While there has certainly been the usual hawkish rhetoric, I've documented during the past week what appears to be a significant degree of dissent from neocon orthodoxy in this current turn of events,"
Indeed. There was some indication of that here to my OT comments on the Georgian affair.
Seems they think it would be insane to protect a former Soviet republic trying to go democracy while so close to Russian supply lines and with so many nukes at their disposal. We should never enter a shooting war with someone who can actually hit back.
Then there is Cecil Turner, the unrepentant one.
Posted by: Semanticleo | August 23, 2008 at 11:52 AM
Mebbe so, but TAG-TEAM wrestling lets Obama
take the high road.
Let us know when he starts, okay? Obama is about the lowest road candidate I've ever seen. Ii attribute that to the fact that he can't talk substance, cause he has none. If you think having Biden on the ticket will change that, I want some of what you are drinking.
Posted by: Jane | August 23, 2008 at 11:56 AM
Please, Semantic. Ever see a big kid hold a little kid at arm's length while the little kid flails around and throws punches into the air? That's what McCain will be doing with the windbag Biden. If Obama hasn't been able to goad McCain into saying sommething he'll regret, what makes you think Biden will be able to? Unless you're admitting Biden is a stronger candidate than Barack?
And as for the old-Senate-warrior-who-has-the-dirt-on-McCain meme, McCain knows just as well as Biden where the bodies are buried in the Senate.
Posted by: Porchlight | August 23, 2008 at 11:56 AM
"Obama is about the lowest road candidate I've ever seen."
If you say so. I don't think Ahab has been
very elevating, but he had to do something about the Polls, didn't he.
If you are talking reality, then I'll give you Sum-Zero. But it's public perception, you know.
Posted by: Semanticleo | August 23, 2008 at 12:01 PM
Joe Biden the racist candidate?
"I've had a great relationship (with Indian Americans). In Delaware, the largest growth in population is Indian-Americans moving from India. You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking,"
There is a youtube video of him saying exactly this in case you think I am joking.
Goes well with the racist President Pro Tempore of the Senate dont you think?
This is the party of inclusion? What is hopeful or changing about this?
Posted by: GMax | August 23, 2008 at 12:01 PM
I wonder what Biden thinks about Blacks?
Posted by: GMax | August 23, 2008 at 12:02 PM
I'm amazed that so many lefties are saying Biden is smart. Of course, they said the same thing about Gore and Kerry and Edwards and Hillary and Dukakis and Boxer and Pelosi and Dean and Reid and ...
Posted by: stan | August 23, 2008 at 12:03 PM
"Joe Biden the racist candidate?"
OMG! Do you see? It's already working.
Posted by: Semanticleo | August 23, 2008 at 12:03 PM
Gmax--he likes them if they're clean cut and well spoken. He said so himself.
Posted by: anduril | August 23, 2008 at 12:03 PM
BTW, Team McCain had an ad ready at 6 am this moring.
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/08/23/new-mccain-ad-biden/>Via Hot Air
Not bad...
Posted by: Ranger | August 23, 2008 at 12:05 PM
I have this image of Biden in his bedroom, dressed in an ascot and smoking jacket, gazing admiringly into a giant gilded mirror and asking a staff lackey how good he looks.
If ever there was a bigger gasbag, it must have been before my time, but I'm happy with the pick. I think Fred will crush him in the debate. :-)
Posted by: Extraneus | August 23, 2008 at 12:06 PM
Personally, I don't think it's a great pick. My main beef with Biden is this stupidity on the role of Congress in declaring war:
Though SCOTUS finally ruled the interpretation was essentially correct (Hamdi v. Rumsfeld), the confusion caused (and moral cowardice displayed) was palpable. He also displayed an appalling lack of judgment in the negative assessment what would prove to be the winning strategy: And note later in the same interview, his rationale behind the aborted attempt to have a do-over on the AUMF resolution. Obama might think he's getting someone with foreign policy expertise with this pick, but in my opinion it merely reinforces his big negative: the typical Democrat cluelessness on national defense.Posted by: Cecil Turner | August 23, 2008 at 12:06 PM
Clean and well spoken and dont shuffle their feet?
Only with our current media does this party not get laughed into oblivion.
Posted by: GMax | August 23, 2008 at 12:07 PM
If ever there was a bigger gasbag,
I would say that John Kerry would fit the description although he may be able to gasify in fewer words than Slow Joe.
Posted by: GMax | August 23, 2008 at 12:10 PM
I must say, I think Biden is the best of the lot. It's a relief to see somebody with some credible foreign policy experience and a pragmatic understanding of how the world works on the Obama ticket. I'm hoping to see Susan Rice and some 300 advisors sliding under the bus.
That said, here's a run down the new talking points. The New York Times, in the understated fashion we've come to expect, leads off:
I like the fact that Biden's actually been going home every night -- which is probably why it's already part of the foundational spin. If you were thinking that Biden is the kind of guy who measures his shirt cuff line when he dons his suits, you've got a surprise coming!Linda (We've Got Women Too!) Douglas, from Obama HQ showed up on Wolf Blitzer this morning with the news that Biden is no insider! He's "not a creature of Washington," he's "not on the Washington cocktail circuit." He's a real, working class "lunch bucket" stiff, of "modest means" who has spent his life "fighting for average Americans." "He doesn't spend all his time hanging around with lobbyists," (unless you count his son, but that will surely be family, not politics) and by the way, "He's got this enormous Irish family." That would be an Irish Catholic family of course.
And we're off!
Posted by: JM Hanes | August 23, 2008 at 12:12 PM
He was speaking in praise of Barry. Got a lot of play back when he said it.
Posted by: anduril | August 23, 2008 at 12:12 PM
Biden: 'He's bright, articulate, clean...AND HE'S MINE.'
Posted by: Patrick R. Sullivan | August 23, 2008 at 12:12 PM
Seems they think it would be insane to protect a former Soviet republic trying to go democracy . . .
Seems to me you were suggesting a forcible entry operation into the middle of a Russian assault. You want to volunteer for that? Ask your son if he does.
Posted by: Cecil Turner | August 23, 2008 at 12:13 PM
some credible foreign policy experience and a pragmatic understanding of how the world works
Posted by: anduril | August 23, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Gilderoy Lockhart! Excellent visual, Extraneous.
And I believe Professor Lockhart also got in trouble for embellishing his resume.
"I think I have a much higher I.Q. than you do."
Maybe Barack and Biden have more in common than I first thought.
Posted by: Porchlight | August 23, 2008 at 12:18 PM
Drink some of this, Jane:
"Barack Obama's choice of Joe Biden as his running mate is unlikely to shake-up the presidential horse race. In a new Washington Post-ABC News poll completed last night, three-quarters of voters said picking Biden would not sway their votes one way or the other. And about as many said they would be more apt to support Obama with Biden on the ticket as said the choice would make them less likely to vote Democratic on Election Day (13 to 10 percent)."
From the estimable Washington Post.
Posted by: Danube of Thought | August 23, 2008 at 12:20 PM
"America needs to show the Arab world that we're not bent on its destruction. 'Seems to me this would be a good time to send, no strings attached, a check for $200 million to Iran,' Biden declares."
His foreign-policy expertise is such that he thinks Iran is part of the Arab world.
Posted by: Danube of Thought | August 23, 2008 at 12:22 PM
Notes on the founders in a book by Louis Fisher gave me the rationale for giving the Legislative the power to declare war and the Executive the power to make war; and that is that it is a Hell of a lot easier to get into a war than it is to get out of one.
It seems Bush is masterful at getting out of this one. And with the assistance of Sistani.
====================================
Posted by: kim | August 23, 2008 at 12:23 PM
I must say, I think Biden is the best of the lot.
You must be working with a pretty small lot.
Posted by: Pofarmer | August 23, 2008 at 12:23 PM
Must be a vacant weedy lot in the hood.
Posted by: GMax | August 23, 2008 at 12:26 PM
DoT - Bob Beckel is on Fox saying Biden's big strength is that he's been in the senate with John McCain the entire time.
Now that is the plussest of all plusses.
Sheesh - maybe they should show Beckel the clip of Biden saying he'd run with McCain.
What a joke.
Posted by: Jane | August 23, 2008 at 12:27 PM
Here's a link that gathers some classic Biden: The Case Against Joe Biden. Samples:
Posted by: anduril | August 23, 2008 at 12:27 PM
"He doesn't spend all his time hanging around with lobbyists,"
JMH,
Those guys from MBNA (Now BAC) weren't lobbyists?
Slow Joe is a "regular lunch bucket" for the credit issuers who got precisely what they wanted out of the Bankruptcy Reform Act. If you read that from the Left it's the "Lifetime Indentured Servitude Act".
Pretty thin smoke screen Ms Douglas is blowing this morning. I wonder if Slow Joe will be meeting with Cardinal Chaput while in Denver? That would be a very interesting meeting for all those wondering about the depth of Slow Joe's committment to average "Irish Catholic family" values.
Posted by: Rick Ballard | August 23, 2008 at 12:27 PM
I see the lefties have their Big 3 out to disrupt those neocon JOMers today
Posted by: BobS | August 23, 2008 at 12:28 PM
Beckel is a shill. He says what the DNC wants said almost every time. Every once in a great while he will stray from the reservation, which is why FOX brings him back as when he does, its entertaining tv.
Posted by: GMax | August 23, 2008 at 12:29 PM
I just can't wait to see what the late nighters and John Stewart can do with Biden's stuff.
Oh, wait a minute. They'll just have to play the clip.
Posted by: BobS | August 23, 2008 at 12:31 PM
First of all, I am sorely disappointed by the disrespect Obama has shown to Hillary. I don't believe he would have been so disrespectful if Hillary was a man.
Joe Biden is a good choice for Obama. I know Biden has a tendency to say outrageous and ridiculously irresponsible things that he wishes he hadn't said, but in this campaign that will serve to misdirect attention away from Obama's vacuousness.
Posted by: MikeS | August 23, 2008 at 12:35 PM
Compared to Obama, Susan Rice and Zbigniew Burzyński, last heard recommending (not kidding!) that we respond to Russia's invasion of Georgia by boycotting the upcoming Olympics in Moscow? Yeah, I'd say pragmatic. Doesn't mean I take his every utterance seriously or or think that something like partitioning Iraq is a great idea.
Posted by: JM Hanes | August 23, 2008 at 12:36 PM
It seems like the best thing the democrats can say about Biden is that he commutes to Delaware every night. That makes him a Washington outsider.
How long a trip is that?
Posted by: Jane | August 23, 2008 at 12:42 PM
I'm listening to Roger Hedgcock, a local talkshow guy who occasionally subs for Rush Limbaugh. He had this guy Berg on, talking about Obama's citizenship (Berg is the guy who filed the lawsuit in Philly). According to Berg, some months back the GOP sent a research team to Mombasa, and they came up with a Kenyan birth certificate for Barack Obama Jr. He says he filed his lawsuit to get Obama off the ticket because he knows the GOP is going to go public with this in October.
I report, you decide.
Posted by: Danube of Thought | August 23, 2008 at 12:43 PM
Oh dear, now they are saying Biden's losing his wife in a car accident means he has been thru tragedy - apparently to counter balance McCain's POW days. Could that be why Obama chose him?
Posted by: Jane | August 23, 2008 at 12:48 PM
So DOT, if Obama was forced off the ticket AFTER the convention, would the top of the ticket go to Biden?
Posted by: Jane | August 23, 2008 at 12:49 PM
I wonder if right out of the gate -- today in Springfield -- if ol' Joe doesn't already make at least one gaffe. And, if he is true to course he may go on and on and on, before The One even has a chance to show his new, improved extemporaneous (teleprompter) skills.
Biden is a gift that will keep on giving, and giving and giving.
Posted by: centralcal | August 23, 2008 at 12:50 PM
Did Berg mention that fire does not burn steel? I hear that is another of his firm beliefs. I would not get way out front on this one, plus the Democrats would just pull a Toricelli and put in another placeholder and talk about how the Republicans kept a poor black man ( ok rich and and half black you know what I mean ) off the ticket!
Posted by: GMax | August 23, 2008 at 12:52 PM
"Ask your son if he does."
Leave my son out of it, asshole.
Posted by: Semanticleo | August 23, 2008 at 12:53 PM
I always said profanity really really improves your argument. Given yours though, it needs more help than that...
Posted by: GMax | August 23, 2008 at 12:57 PM
Profanity? It's more a statement of fact.
Apologies to any offended, unless you think family in the mil is 'fair game'.
Posted by: Semanticleo | August 23, 2008 at 01:01 PM
DOT says:
Seems to me that the Kos crowd will be apoplectic over this choice.
Nope they love it. Same for DU. Like all good Stalinists they fall right in with the new Party line just like the old one never existed,
Posted by: M. Simon | August 23, 2008 at 01:01 PM
Ask anybody's son, Leo; it could be anyone's son or daughter. The question is whether it is sensible to volunteer for a reckless mission. Don't take it personally.
=======================
Posted by: kim | August 23, 2008 at 01:04 PM
Jane, I have no idea at all. The Democratic Party can act in any way it wants to in selecting its nominee, I think, although I also think there is some deadline for the time the nominee must be placed on the ballot.
Please don't interpret anything I say, or have said, as endorsing this fellow Berg. Incidentally, he has a website called ObamaCrimes.com [sic], at which there appears the complaint he filed in Philly. Unfortunately, I can't open anything on the site.
Posted by: Danube of Thought | August 23, 2008 at 01:09 PM
Eagleton was selected and then removed so I think that is a precedent to learn from.
Posted by: GMax | August 23, 2008 at 01:11 PM
Good background, Cecil and Anduril. Let's see, Biden...boring unless he says something stupid, which is 90% of the time.
Backstabbing, plain mean, evidently, when he wants to get his way, air-time when cameras are rolling in committee.
I think Obama chose Biden to transfer all the "what about this and that" questions in HIS background, and let Obama rise above it all on his wings of communist angels,..or something. Did they actually say Biden was
a common man, goes home everynight, etc.
WELL, IF I HAD HIS MANSION AND GROUNDS I WOULD NEVER LEAVE. His place makes Mc Cain's
home in Arizona look like middle class heaven.
Posted by: glenda waggoner | August 23, 2008 at 01:14 PM
"we respond to Russia's invasion of Georgia by boycotting the upcoming Olympics in Moscow?'
JM;
What has been the response, not only to the invasion, but continued presence?
The whole matter has all the ingredients of Iraq.
*An oppressive dictator who murders his people
*WMD's
*Continued cease=fire breaches.
*Democracy being withheld from citizenry.
"The question is whether it is sensible to volunteer for a reckless mission."
Kim;
Why the circumspection?
Posted by: Semanticleo | August 23, 2008 at 01:14 PM
Porchlight:
"You must be working with a pretty small lot."
I was thinking of Obama's (sand!)lot -- and I suspect more than one person politely declined.
Posted by: JM Hanes | August 23, 2008 at 01:15 PM
Cecil Turner,
The AUMF against the Barbary Pirates might interest you.
Posted by: M. Simon | August 23, 2008 at 01:16 PM
DOT:
On the issue of the One’s Constitutional qualification and the alleged foreign birth, does no one have standing to seek a declaratory judgment or does everyone have standing? Remembering, always, that standing is a function of the case on its merits.
Posted by: MarkO | August 23, 2008 at 01:20 PM
Here's a taste of what McCain has in store.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7Y8AFctpjo
Posted by: Semanticleo | August 23, 2008 at 01:21 PM
"What has been the response, not only to the invasion, but continued presence?"
I'd say it's a work in progress. Others may prefer to make more precipitous judgments. We do know how Carter policy worked out, however, which apparently Carter and Burzyński have yet to grasp. But back to Biden.....
Posted by: JM Hanes | August 23, 2008 at 01:22 PM
Jane:
After reading your comment on yesterday's thread, I also came across this piece in National Review, with quotes from Clarence Thomas' book on the view from his side of the confirmation hearings that Biden conducted as Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Not pretty. In contrast, here's how the New York Times summed up his role in the two most theatrical, explosive, legendary Supreme Court hearings evah:
Biden was protecting Thomas! He doesn't fool Ramesh Ponnuru:Ponnuru also comments wryly, "So maybe McCain can win the Indian vote."
Posted by: JM Hanes | August 23, 2008 at 01:25 PM
Several days ago I read a paragraph from Peggy Noonan on Biden at some blog. I tried and tried to find it again and couldn't. Luckily RedState highlighted it today. It is a DELIGHTFUL and very accurate description of Joe:
"As he speaks, as he goes on and on and spins his long statements, hypotheticals, and free associations--as he demonstrates yet again . . . that he is incapable of staying on the river of a thought, and is constantly lured down tributaries from which he can never quite work his way back--you can see him batting the little paddles of his mind against the weeds, trying desperately to return to the river but not remembering where it is, or where it was going."
Posted by: centralcal | August 23, 2008 at 01:27 PM
Leo,
You are falling behind the times. The American presence in Georgia is now permanent. They will be using an old Russian military base.
i.e. it looks like the pipeline will be protected. Short oil.
Posted by: M. Simon | August 23, 2008 at 01:28 PM
Doesn't Obama have a bug up his a$$ about lobbyists?
Via Flopping Aces:
But he picks a running mate who has taken quite a bit of money from those lobbyists and special interests:
Posted by: Sara | August 23, 2008 at 01:29 PM
For the literalists, no I do not think Biden protecting Thomas.
Posted by: JM Hanes | August 23, 2008 at 01:29 PM
And the winner for best comment on Biden is:
Atlas Shrugs---------------
"The man is the poster boy for verbal diarrhea."
LUN
Posted by: pagar | August 23, 2008 at 01:29 PM
MarkO, I dunno. Jonathan Turley says the case isn't ripe for adjudication unless and until the guy is elected. Wouldn't that be a hoot?
Posted by: Danube of Thought | August 23, 2008 at 01:30 PM
"Biden's basic critique of Bork"
It SEEMS contradictory, but the message is there, (Bork's 'morality')
Posted by: Semanticleo | August 23, 2008 at 01:31 PM
He's a fool.
Posted by: clarice | August 23, 2008 at 01:32 PM
Oh this is going to be fun:
He [Biden] has his own lies to deal with:
Posted by: Sara | August 23, 2008 at 01:34 PM
Makes it even harder for the Jews to vote Dem this time around.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/08/obamabiden_a_bigger_gamble_for.html>Biden sucks
Posted by: clarice | August 23, 2008 at 01:35 PM
Looks like TS Fay will be here very shortly. I'll be outside, shaking my fist at the wuss.
Posted by: Larry | August 23, 2008 at 01:36 PM
Both of these candidates share certain faults:arrogance; over valuation of their abilities; a disregard for the truth.
Posted by: clarice | August 23, 2008 at 01:37 PM
"He's a fool."
I tend to agree, but don't forget the role
of "fool" in Shakespeare.
Posted by: Semanticleo | August 23, 2008 at 01:37 PM
And via Gateway Pundit, who is blogging on his way to Denver:
Posted by: Sara | August 23, 2008 at 01:38 PM
I was thinking of Obama's (sand!)lot -- and I suspect more than one person politely declined.
JMH, I don't think it was me who said that, but I'm with you on the size of Obama's sorry sandlot. And that a lot of folks said thanks but no thanks (but then again, so did Biden).
Posted by: Porchlight | August 23, 2008 at 01:38 PM
Turley (the fool)?
Posted by: centralcal | August 23, 2008 at 01:39 PM
Now this is funny:
Hugh Hewitt: Obama Picks Cliff the Mailman
Posted by: Sara | August 23, 2008 at 01:40 PM
"The American presence in Georgia is now permanent."
"The whole matter has all the ingredients of Iraq."
Thanks for the reminder.
mew bullet (how could I forget)
*OIL
Posted by: Semanticleo | August 23, 2008 at 01:41 PM