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August 03, 2008

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centralcal

Boo Hoo! Dana Millbank and Keith Olbermann have broken up!

I am so loving all the fighting going on in Dem-land.

LUN (Newsbusters)


Pofarmer

"Rich: One needs to keep correcting DEM false narrative. One is that there are 68 million acres the oil companies have that they wont drill in. There AINT NO OIL THERE!!!What a bunch of liars MSM and DEMS are!!!"

Well, why do you think Clintoon didn't "protect" those acres?

SWarren

Over at Texasdarlin on the COLB, a commenter quoted Bill Clinton saying to USA Today:

"I never was mad at Sen. Obama," the former president said. "I think everybody's got a right to run for president who qualifies under the Constitution. And I'd be the last person to begrudge anybody their ambition."

Hmmm. Why would Bill raise constitutional qualification?

Elliott

If you want to give Daddy something on his birthday, that's OK, just don't be buying presents for his girls!

That's funny, JMH.

centralcal

Yesterday, Bob Herbert (NY Times) and phallic symbols.

Today, Eugene Robinson (WaPo) and "key" words - "victim" and "racist," and in the last sentence the really key words: Affirmative Action.

These "journalists" must really be getting worried about their candidate.

LUN (link under name)

centralcal

Shorter Eugene Robinson:

Q: Are you insuating that I am a racist?

Robinson: Posing that question clearly indicates that you are a racist!

centralcal

oops, posted instead of previewed!

"insinuating"

bad

From centalcal's link:

One way to do that would be to fabricate the impression that Obama is demanding special treatment and privilege because he is black -- in other words, turn a self-made man into a stereotypical beneficiary of affirmative action.

Obama as self-made man goes a ways beyond messiah. Even the real messiah has a creator.

centralcal

bad: LOL!

Porchlight

MayBee, my hope is that if Bayh is the pick, Clarice will find a way to peek in and comment. Or not - it's so pleasant to disconnect completely when on vacation. Even in France.

Sue

Ann,

Why did his children buy him a tie? For his birthday? So he can get presents for his birthday but his children can't? How freaking odd is that?

Elliott

bgates,

Did you have a good holiday yesterday?

Elliott

a tie? For his birthday

Whatever will Bob Herbert make of it?

Jane

Why did his children buy him a tie? For his birthday? So he can get presents for his birthday but his children can't? How freaking odd is that?

Sue,

I thought of that too. Then I decided I too involved.

RichatUF

It must be a NYT thing: Obama: Self-Made Man.

Brooks mails in a column today as well hitting on age and race. Then unleashes: "If Obama is fully a member of any club — and perhaps he isn’t — it is the club of smart post-boomer meritocrats."

We should send him the Spengler column from a few months backs which described Obama as "the anthropologist". Also, I don't think any of the columns about Obama have pointed out-he was from an upper middle class background in Hawaii, went to an exclusive private school there, and his father was a Harvard graduate.

I really wish the media would spare me the "pulled up from the bootstraps" or "black kid from the hood who did good" hagiography. Obama was a Harvard legacy and had mentors and guardian "angels" all through his academic, professional, and political career. And surprising, left barely a trail of his presence...

bgates

Elliott, it was objectively miraculous. I floated through the day as though on fully inflated tires. We didn't exchange presents, of course, but I did reach under the sofa cushions and got just what I hoped for - change!

Elliott

It seems your day was as miraculous as mine.

Rick Ballard

Rich,

The main thing that I'm seeing at this point is that The One has missed the boat with the key 35+ F demographic. He's no good at all at the lipsucking painfeeler gig and his "Q" suffers greatly when a light amount of ridicule is applied.

Axelrod is trying to run a national Blue campaign and there just aren't enough ACORN/SEIU thugs availble to make it work - not even if Camp ObamaBe actually gets fired up. Maybe he didn't notice that the 13%ers max out at 13%?

The One has reached the point where he could hold a policy debate with himself - and lose.

kim

Maya Kassandra Soetero, the name that has been erased on Obama's fake COLB. Now, why did she have one? Texas Darlin' has the skinny.
====================================

narciso

Ron, one recalls was the one who told us, that Abu Zubeydah, was the one who was borderline schizo, kind of idiot savant; which was counteracted by Gerald Posner
(who sadly has drifted into the Olbermann
zone, ever since he used the Huff Po as the launching pad for his last book'sspectacular
claim that the Saudis had booby trapped their oil fields )but more recently by Jane Mayer, who uses Zubeydah's earlier
revelations to challenge the aggressive interrogation narrative. He was also the narrative voice behind Paul O'Neil's vengeful Stockmanesque or Reganesque memoir, which misrepresented charts
from the Cheney energy taskforce
(ie;the list of foreign oil concessions in the hands of French, Russian, Chinese , German, and Vietnamese firms). Lets not forget how his quintessential claim in his last book; about the 'mubtakkar' chemical
weapon was almost immediately debunked by authorities. There's no indications that this claim has 1/100th the authenticity
the last one.

Maybe I've been watching too many crime show reruns, but last time a checked a crime needs Motive, Means & Opportunity.
The Ivins case, suggest he certainly had the last, but the motive is out of something from the X-files, Millenium,
or Mission Impossible. And Opportunity, is there any evidence, he was in Princeton at the time these letters were sent; we'll throw out Green Dale, since that was supposedly some reference to Rhodesia that never checked out. The fact, that Spretzel who has expertise in this matter, finding
those 'non existent' WMDs has doubts, makes
me

kim

It is Soetoro, sorry. AJStrata and Seixon have both weighed in on Texas Darlin's thread, both skeptically. Seixon might remember John Dean from Santa Ana, the SluggoJD.
============================

glenda waggoner

Elucidating posts, as usual. We have been lucky at home w Edouard, passing us to the east. Only one slight loss of power with rain, rain, rain and wind gusts up to about 35. Sounds great sleeping late and listening to the whirring in the trees. It's like those sound machines for tranquility and relaxation the liberals buy.
Knock wood!

Bill in AZ

Latest random rotating Yahoo News title on falling oil prices:
"Oil falls as low as $118 a barrel on concerns about lower demand"

concerns?

Jane

Glad to hear it Glenda - I just got this in email. I actually think it's a bad issue but I know it's been discussed a lot here.

Barack Obama is not a legal U.S. natural-born citizen according to the law on the books at the time of his birth, which falls between December 24, 1952, to November 13, 1986. Federal Law requires that the office of President requires a natural-born citizen if the child was not born to two U.S. Citizen parents. This is what exempts John McCain, though he was born in the US Panama Canal Zone .

US Law very clearly states: ". . . If only one parent is a U.S. Citizen at the time of one's birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for minimum ten years, five of which must be after the age of 16." Barack Obama's father was not a U.S. Citizen is a fact.

Obama's mother was only 18 when Obama was born. This means even though she had been a U.S. Citizen for 10 years, (or citizen of Hawaii being a territory), his mother fails the test for at-least-5-years- prior-to Barack Obama's birth, but-after-age-16.

In essence, Mother alone is not old enough to qualify her son for automatic U.S. Citizenship. At most, 2 years elapsed from his mother turning 16 to the time of Barack Obama's birth when she was 18. His mother would have needed to have been 16 + 5 = 21 years old at the time of Barack Obama's birth for him to be a natural-born citizen. Barack Obama was already 3 years old at the time his mother would have needed to be to allow him natural citizenship from his only U.S. Citizen parent. Obama should have been naturalized as a citizen . . . but that would disqualify him from holding the office.


Porchlight

Jane,

I think that stuff only applies if Obama was not born in the US. If he was born in Hawaii the citizenship status of his parents isn't an issue. I've never thought it likely that he was born anywhere but Honolulu. This new COLB wrinkle wrt Maya Soetoro is very strange, however.

PaulL

Bad wrote: ****Even the real messiah has a creator.****

Debating Trinitarianism and Arianism may be outside the scope of JOM, but Arius was a heretic.

Jane

Porchlight,

Since I'm not really following the issue, I didn't know if there was anything new in the email. Sounds like the answer is "no".

bad

PaulL

That debate is definitely beyond my scope but not for many of the JOM crowd.

bad

Kaus has an article on Edwards/Hunter. No new info just a discussion of why the situation is relevant for discussion and not a private matter.

LUN

centralcal

I am sorry, but Texas Darlin and Tech Dude are starting to sound a little looney. Obama's sister was born in Indonesia, not Hawaii. And why would Obama's last name be listed as Soetoro on his birth certificate? None of this makes sense.

narciso

No, this is more of a Gnostic or Manichean crowd. So Whose COLB had Soetoro; and why would that be; unless it's a backdated job like the Rather papers.

The forceful arrest of Mrs. Afia Siddiqui, the MIT trained microbiologist, who was on the FBI's most wanted list, and coincidentally was a recipient of the KSA's
largesse through the Riggs Bank, just like the late father of Adnan Al Shukrijumah, the
former Broward native, trained pilot, and associate of Jose Padilla. Well Mrs. Siddiqui has been on the lam since 2003, then she recently showed up in Afghanistan; where she was arrested with a list of American targets; was she in Princeton in the fall of 2001?

bad

Narciso

I respectfully submit that many of the Jom crowd can debate the subject regardless of their personal leanings.

GMax

Wait a second, if an illegal immigrant gets to dry US soil and has a child, that child is an American citizen by definition. So the only way he would not be a citizen in my unstudied opinion, would be if mom were not in Hawaii but someplace else like Indonesia.

Given a COLB has been issued, how likely is that to have been the case.

Sometimes a kooky conspiracy is

A kooky conspiracy.

RichatUF

GMax-

The Flamey McNoggin on the COLB story was Scary Larry pushing the story.

Porchlight

I suppose if Maya Soetoro was born in Hawaii and not Indonesia as reported, AND her Hawaii COLB was scrubbed in order to create Obama's fake COLB, it would all make sense. But those are mighty big ifs. I agree it's looking kookier by the minute.

In other news, Rasmussen has McCain +1 again today. Nothing yet from Gallup.

Sue

GMax,

Edourd isn't going to help us. Looks like it is going to head towards Killeen and Abilene.

glenda waggoner

Jane & PorchL--but the stubborn question remains? Why won't the campaign, muchless
O himself, release a valid BC? Requirement of school registration, insurance, and many other menial things as sports-- why not when you file to be a candidate for any government office? Sorry, sport fans, for the menial remark-I didn't mean it in a "phallic" way.
And Bill Clinton seems about to explode regarding Obama. Do you really think the RW has any chance for a floor vote?

Sue

http://www.local10.com/news/17097598/detail.html>Federal Agent Dies

PEMBROKE PINES, Fla. -- A U.S. Customs and Border Protection agent has died after he was shot outside a Pembroke Pines post office Tuesday morning, police said.

His daughter was with him at the time of the shooting so it appears he was off duty.

centralcal

Who picks the moderators of the Presidential debates?

Porchlight

Glenda, I agree there are a lot of questions about the COLB. I just don't think we're ever going to see anything official from Obama at this point. The parties are supposed to vet the candidates on this stuff. The Democrats would be taking a stupefyingly huge risk if there was any question of ineligibility. I think it's more likely that if anything is going on with the COLB, it's some kind of information that Obama finds embarassing, but that doesn't disqualify him from the Presidency.

Jane

Who picks the moderators of the Presidential debates?

I assume it is done by mutual agreement which means no one from Fox News or Charlie Gibson. I assume that Obama will push for Olbermann, or at least Brian Williams.

Jane

Will you guys remind me of what COLB stands for?

Porchlight, I ordered my tire gauge this morning and put you down as the referral:

"First and last name of person referring:"

"Porchlight".

centralcal

Nevermind the debate question. Found the answer.

centralcal

Certificate of Live Birth = COLB

centralcal

No Jane, I just found out there is a Commission for debates. This year moderator's are Leher, Brokaw, Ifill, and Schiefer.


Sounds pretty much like who we had in 2004. Pheh (to quote Clarice)!!!!

Porchlight

Thanks, Jane! I'm honored. When I ordered mine, I put down "Kathryn Jean Lopez, National Review" as the referral, since I followed the link from the Corner. I hope sales are brisk this week.

Jane

Now I am on every donation list. Mitt Romney just asked me for $50 for a T-shirt. I said "yes" because I can wear it on the cruise. For $100 he will sign it, but I figure I'll corner him on the boat and get it for half price!

Ann

Sue,
Actually, I thought it was weird that he knew what kind of shoes McCain wears:

"He compared Sen. John McCain's tactics last week to a "squid" squirting ink, discussed all sorts of issues ranging from energy to the new dark blue tie his daughters bought him -- "one guarantee, this tie cost less than John McCain's shoes," he told me, joking about his opponent's pricey Ferragamo loafers -- and served the press corps birthday cake."


Seems to me, he was trying to say how uppity McCain is because he wears expensive shoes.

Porchlight

Obama up 1 point to +4 today per Gallup.

Ann, I think there was some snarky story about McCain's shoes last week, maybe from Salon. How much do you want to bet when it came out Axelrod sent staffers to hunt through Barry's shoes to make sure none of them were as expensive as McCain's. And I'd also bet they found some that cost as much and more. (They're under the bus now.)

Porchlight

Jane, definitely get it from him on the cruise. Unless of course he is Vice President Elect in November and he has to cancel. :)

Jane

Unless of course he is Vice President Elect in November and he has to cancel.

He wouldn't date what with all those pre-paid advisors there to help him out.

Sara

As a genealogist, I could not list Barack Obama Sr. as the legal father since he was never "legally" married to Barack's mother. He was already married. So technically Barack would be considered illegitimate, a more complicated matter back in 1961 than today.

Texas Darlin did a post about adoption when the adoptive parent is Indonesian and how if the child is under 5, citizenship reverts to Indonesia, over 5, dual citizenship, which is not recognized by Indonesia, but is by the U.S.

The answer lies somewhere in the illegitimate birth and possible subsequent adoption by Soetoro.

Sara

I donated to Romney during the Primary and now we are new best friends when it comes to correspondence, both email and snail mail. I don't mind so much because his mailings are always informative and classy.

I hope he goes with head of the RNC rather than VP. Lots and lots of TV exposure in that position, makes use of his superior fund raising skills, and still puts him on the front lines of policy.

Ann

BINGO!!!, Porchlight


Jane, "He wouldn't date"......(Was that a hopeful slip) :) :)

Jane

.(Was that a hopeful slip) :)

LOL - naw - I like to do too many things he doesn't partake in - plus his wife might disapprove.

centralcal

I was talking about the Presidential debates earlier and Gwen Ifill being the moderator (for the 2nd debate), so I was troubled to read this at FishbowlNY:

"Meanwhile, the real Obamas are set to grace the cover of Essence, with an accompanying "upbeat" article penned by PBS newswoman (and favorite MTPer) Gwen Ifill."

LUN

Ann

Centralcal,

You are right. PHEH!!

Lea

I just want to make the point that if we're going to go all Jane Austen on this election, we are obviously in Sense and Sensibility.

McCain is Colonel Brandon, the candidate for those who are using their sense and Obama is Willouby, the candidate for those with only sensibility. He's younger and more handsome and sweeps the country off its feet while Colonel Brandon is older and a choice that makes sense.

M. Simon

One nice thing: if Obama is elected we will have a certified bastard for President.

Porchlight

Lea, that is very apt.

Topsecretk9

Tell San Fran Nan to quit hocking her book on the taxpayers dime and get back to congress

http://www.callbackcongress.com/

cathyf
And why would Obama's last name be listed as Soetoro on his birth certificate? None of this makes sense.
In the US when you are adopted your birth certificate is officially altered to show the adoptive parents names, etc. (I had a friend who was 30 and her husband 31 when they adopted their 16-yr-old foster daughter. The birth certificate made it appear as if the adoptive mother had given birth at 14.) The speculation is that Soetero adopted Barack in Hawaiian family courts when he and Dunham married, and so that means that his official COLB claims that his father is Soetero. If this speculated adoption was never undone legally, then it still says Soetero.

TexasDarlin has researched Indonesian law and thinks that it can be interpreted to prove that Obama lost his US citizenship when he was adopted by an Indonesian. I disagree -- as far as US constitutional provisions go, Indonesian law should be irrelevant.

But anyway, I'm not sure how relevant any of this really is, even if true. This is a free country, and people can use whatever name they please, as long as it's not for the purposes of committing fraud. If Barry Soetero decided to go back to his birth name when his mother and adoptive father divorced, who can blame him? According to sharia law his mother's parental rights were legally severed when his parents divorced, leaving his adoptive father his sole parent. If he fled Indonesia to return to his grandparents and to come under the protection of US law, then who can blame him for that?

Ultimately all of this speculation rests on the misbehavior of people who are all dead -- parents who weren't married when he was conceived, and probably never were; perhaps a mother who allowed him to be adopted, then never took legal steps in the US to terminate her ex-husband's parental rights when they divorced; perhaps Barack Obama wasn't actually his father and his mother lied to him. One of the central pillers of his campaign is that parents owe responsibility to their hildren to behave better than his parents behaved towards him -- it's hard to see how the misbehavior of Dunham, Obama & Soetero does more than reinforce the message. The only thing I could see people actually blaming Obama for is if there is some complicated soap opera and he left it out of his autobiographies. I mean no one is required to write an autobiography, and no one is required to drag out their family's dirty laundry at all. But if one chooses to write an autobiography, it's pretty pathetic to lie in it. In a campaign about character, that is an issue.

Sue

Cathy,

Obama said his brother Mark was the only undisputed heir to his father, Obama Sr. That would make sense if his stepfather had adopted him.

Porchlight
The only thing I could see people actually blaming Obama for is if there is some complicated soap opera and he left it out of his autobiographies.

That's how I view it, too. He's running on his biography to a great extent, so he'd better have the facts right at least as far as he knows them.

In certain passages in Dreams from My Father he states that understands that there were irregularities in his parents' union, but he doesn't want to look too closely at them. Not a particularly courageous stance coming from someone who is presenting the results of his soul-searching and hoping you'll shell out money for it. I'm sympathetic to the young Barry trying to decipher his identity, but much less so to any secretiveness from the ambitious adult who has made every effort to rise to fame on a celebrated memoir.

PeterUK

"How much do you want to bet when it came out Axelrod sent staffers to hunt through Barry's shoes to make sure none of them were as expensive as McCain's. And I'd also bet they found some that cost as much and more. (They're under the bus now.)"

He got shoes?

Sue

http://www.callbackcongress.com/thanks.asp>Spread the message

We, the undersigned, believe that gas prices are too high. Speaker Pelosi has closed Congress for a five-week paid vacation, without taking any action to lower gas prices. We, the undersigned, have a simple demand: Call Congress Back, Madam Speaker!
Ann

Sue, I signed it!

Can I sign my daughters name? She has her own e-mail? :)

bad

He got shoes?

Has to have shoes!!! The ears don't allow for very important hair.

M. Simon

CathyF,

It is not what name he uses. If his "real" name is not on the ballot he is not elected. Unless a particular state allows nicknames. He would have to ask for that. If his parent didn't follow procedure he is not an American.

If he lied about his name in Illinois he may not even be a Senator.

Larry

Happy birthday to me! (68) My present(s)? Cubs won and I'm here with a bunch of the brightest people on the planet.

Elliott

And many happy returns Larry!

Sara

Happy Birthday Larry.

bad

Happy Birthday Larry!! All our best to you.

sbw

A birthday party! Congrats!

Ann

Happy Birthday Larry.

kim

Many Happy Returns of the Day, Larry. This is the BPOE, the Benevolent and Protective Order of the Elect. Self-elected, that is.
===================================

Pofarmer

The answer lies somewhere in the illegitimate birth and possible subsequent adoption by Soetoro.

It is not what name he uses. If his "real" name is not on the ballot he is not elected. Unless a particular state allows nicknames. He would have to ask for that. If his parent didn't follow procedure he is not an American.

If he lied about his name in Illinois he may not even be a Senator.

C'mon M. Simon, all this is really a distraction. One I would really like to see out in the open, BTW.

Happy B'day Larry.

cathyf
If his parent didn't follow procedure he is not an American.
I don't think so...

The issue is one of "natural born American." The problem is that this constitutional provision was specifically inserted to prevent Alexander Hamilton from becoming president. Certainly Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, etc. didn't have birth certificates. Certainly there are people whose births were improperly registered or not registered at all. (My children's birth certificates were both wrong. My son's had my name mangled, and my daughter's had her middle name and my middle name swapped. We didn't even find out about my son's until my daughter's was mangled and we got suspicious and looked up his complete record of birth because we used the abbreviated B.C. -- which doesn't have parents' names -- to get his passport.) The typical form for establishing place of birth in the absence of correct documentation is a sworn affidavit.

If Obama was born in the state of Hawaii, then he was a natural-born American citizen when he was born. As long as he never did anything as an adult to renounce his citizenship, then the actions of his parents, or bumbling government bureaucrats of any country, or of Indonesian law, can't deprive him of his citizenship.

Porchlight

Happy Birthday Larry! Great to have you here.

Sara

I was involved with a family member in a step-parent adoption, which is what Obama's would have been.

The birth was in Ohio and the adoption in Calif., so the laws may not have been the same as Hawaai/Indonesia. It was, however, a child born in the early 1960s.

First, there was an extensive meeting with Children's Services and the appropriate permission documents were signed, including one from the natural father, if known.

A few weeks later, we met in the judge's chamber and at that time, he asked by what name the child would be known. Both first and last name could be changed at that time.

A certificate of adoption was issued, along with a letter that the record had been sealed and a new birth certificate ordered.

Several weeks later, a certified copy of the new birth certificate was received.

Changes that were made included:

Step-father now listed as father.

Age of father calculated to age he would have been at time of birth of the child being adopted.

Occupation of father listed as the one he had at time of birth the child being adopted. (EX: in our case, adopting step-father was a 1st class petty officer in the Navy, however at the time of the birth he was a 2nd class petty officer. Both his rate had been changed and length of time in job also changed to reflect the earlier date of the birth.)

[last two were part of original questionnaire]

Child's name changed to reflect new last name.

There was a letter that said that all previous filed certificates had been destroyed and replaced with the new one. (Note, adoption record sealed in Calif., original birth record destroyed and replaced in Ohio via court order)

The judge had explained that once the new birth certificate was issued, the child would never again be able to prove he was ever not the child of the adoptive parent and the parent could never deny being the parent of the child.

It would be interesting to compare the Ohio rule of destroying and replacing the original certificate after a new certificate issued due to adoption and how Hawaii handled the same circumstance.

It may be that short of a new adoption, Barack is stuck with the Soetoro surname, whether he wants/wanted it or not.

Sara

M.Simon: I like the style, it has a certain Dragnet quality to it of "just the facts, ma'm, just the facts."

You are probably too young to remember the old newreels they would run before a movie back in the 50s. They had that same staccato quality of "just the facts."

Sara

oops wrong thread. Sorry

Pofarmer

Well, Sara.

Even if Barack was born in Indonesia to an unwed mother, wouldn't he still be an American citizen? Both my Sister's kids were born in Mexico, to a Mexican father, which is where they live. Could they be President?

O.K. one last thing.

If the guys legal name is Barry soetoro, and he's running as Barack Obama, is that legal? Without a legal name change, I don't see how.

kim

TexasDarlin has the latest, PoF. Techdude and someone named KG have apparently independently found Obama's sister's name on the posted COLB. Still much doubt and strong signs of poisonous disinformation gas being broadcast by all sides. Amusingly, a John Dean, also known as SluggoJD, from Santa Ana, makes an appearance, possibly trying to lure techdude out of anonymity. The Slug may be remembered by some folks here for his appearances on Seixon, and he may have posted here, too.
================================

kim

AJStrata and Seixon are both very skeptical of this whole affair. I generally value both of their opinions highly, but I think they are wrong about this one. Even if it turns out that Obama, as I strongly suspect, was born in Hawaii, the manner in which this affair has proceeded calls forth the adjective 'tricky'. If this was a poisoned pawn, or as I say a 'poisonous prawn', device then the sobriquet 'Tricky Obickie' applies.
================================

M. Simon

If the guys legal name is Barry soetoro, and he's running as Barack Obama, is that legal? Without a legal name change, I don't see how.

That seems like the key of this whole thing to me. He may not even be a Senator depending on Illinois rules.

M. Simon

C'mon M. Simon, all this is really a distraction. One I would really like to see out in the open, BTW.

Agreed.

You have to ask yourself why Obama doesn't put this to rest. Reminds me of Kerry's Form 180. What is with the Dems and their secrets?

Jane

What is with the Dems and their secrets?

They have lots and lots to hide.

And happy belated birthday Larry!

centralcal

Pictures? Drudge has one of those "developing" posts about pictures related to Edwards and his baby girl.

Oh, and about the COLB discussion, I think Barry's name is the issue, not the place of birth.

GMax

KIM

That is the first thing in this whole teapot tempest that I truly agree with. Its not the act, its the cover up and that probably is the story here.

bad

'Tricky Obickie'

Kim, you are priceless!!!

M. Simon

Larry,

I'm a former North Sider (DePaul area about 10 blocks from Wrigley) and Cub fan. I turn 64 in a about two months.

Happy birthday.

BTW went out drinking last week to listen to my son's band (he is the drummer). They Played "Cubs gonna Win Today". The crowd went wild. In Rockford.

cathyf
If the guys legal name is Barry Soetoro, and he's running as Barack Obama, is that legal? Without a legal name change, I don't see how.
The concept of "legal name change" is relatively new, and it has more to do with extracting fees from the person wishing to change his/her name. From what I know, legally you can call yourself whatever you wish, as long as you do not use the name to attempt to defraud people. In this case it is very clear that the name on the ballot "Barack Obama" is that tall skinny guy with the funny-looking ears, and you could argue quite convincingly that putting his name on the ballot as "Barry Soetero" would be an attempt to defraud voters by using a name that they didn't recognize.

And as a nation of immigrants, we have gazillions of current citizens and ancestors of current citizens with "weird" names who anglicized them. Sometimes at Ellis Island, sometimes later. When those people run for office, I would hope that they should be using the names that they are known by to their fellow citizens, not some weird name on a birth certificate that nobody knows. Certainly our local political ballots contain nicknames (we have or have had a Chip and a Spud -- yes, that's right, "Spud" right their on the ballot!)

As a married woman, I can tell you that it was pretty darn easy to change my name. I didn't need any legal name change, merely to formally notify agencies (passport, social security) that I had assumed a new name. Social security issued me a new card. Passport made an official endorsement in the back of my passport book as to my new name.

Obama returned to Hawaii to live with his grandparents in about 1971. If he consistently used "Barak Hussein Obama" as his name -- registered for school, got a passport, got a social security number -- then I think that legally became his name. In modern times when we have to worry about identity theft things have become illegal that weren't illegal just a few years ago. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson didn't have and therefore didn't need Virginia birth certificates to qualify as eligible to be president. Obama doesn't need a birth certificate either -- according to the constitution the requirement is "natural born" and the constitution doesn't mention "birth certificate" at all, because no such thing existed in 1792.

Thomas Jackson

Obama has been an active race hustler since the day he entered politics. His little speech never denied affirmative action, it only called for more goodies.

And isn't this what the progressives are about? Mugging the hard working and giving the stolen loot to their cronies instead of working for it and donating it themselves rather than taking it at gunpoint from non progressives?

Ah the glories of a politburo under the Dalibama and paid vacations at the gulags for all those non progressives out there.

We will get the government we deserve.

bad

We will get the government we deserve.

No one deserves an Obama government.

Sara

cathyf: It was damn difficult for me to change my name back from my married name to my maiden name. Everyone blamed the Patriot Act.

I had to provide a certified copy of the court order first to social security and get a new card issued, from there I was able to change my name at the bank, who also required a certified copy of the court order plus my certified birth certificate and the changed social security card.

From there, I had to then go thru the same thing all over again with the DMV. So it cost me to provide all those certified copies of birth certificates, and certified court order copies, plus a whole lot of time and hassle.

And now I'm about to have to go thru it all again when I renew my passport.

And that doesn't even get to all the faxes with identity proof I had to send off to credit card companies, utility companies, and internet companies like my server, broadband provider, etc.

And all of it because I dropped the back half of a hyphenated last name and kept the front half, which would seem, on its face, to be easier than going from Obama to Soetoro and then back to Obama.

cathyf

Sure, now it's hard to change your name -- but in the 70's when Obama was a teenager?

Things have gotten much tighter in the last 10 years or so, and it's not just about anti-terrorism, it's also about identity theft. 10 years ago when the hospital mangled my newborn daughter's name in the paperwork that they submitted to the state for her birth certificate, and to the feds for her social security number, it was relatively straightforward to fix. We told the lady in the state records office what the name was supposed to be, and she fixed it. Once the state re-issued the birth certificate, my husband went to the social security office, took a number (it was like #78, and the sign said "now serving #5") waited some intermitable interval, and once they finally called his number it took all of about 5 minutes for the bureaucrat to fix it. I suspect that it is WAY harder now.

I'm right about Obama's age, and I didn't have a social security number until my brother and I got savings accounts in our own names, when I was six and he was almost-nine. I wouldn't be surprised if Obama didn't get a social security number until he returned to Hawaii to live with his grandparents when he was 11. If he applied for and received that number under the name Barack Hussein Obama, if he applied for and received his driver's license under the name Barack Hussein Obama, if he applied for and received his passport under the name Barack Hussein Obama, using his driver's license and original 1961 birth certificate which said Barack Hussein Obama, then I think that there would be a legal argument that his name is leaglly Barack Hussein Obama.

When my sister-in-law's mom got divorced in the early 90's, she decided that she didn't want to keep her married name, and she didn't want to go back to the maiden name that she hadn't carried for 30-some years, so she picked a new surname that she liked. It wasn't all that hard to do that back then...

Sara

cathyf: I think you are missing the point though. It isn't about how easy it would be to assume the Obama name back again back in the '70s. It is how hard it would be today to provide legitimate proof of your identity in today's world. You would need the court orders, the birth certificate, etc. So, even if he assumed the Obama name back, if he didn't do it legally through the court, how can he present legitimate documents that are necessary for anything he is doing today, whether it be the Senate, the Presidency, or even renewing his passport and driver's license?

Sara

Geez, why were you all getting SS #s so young? My kids were born in '65 and '69 and neither of them got an SS# until they got their first jobs at 17, same as me. Is this something new I don't know about?

cathyf

Well back when my brother and I got social security numbers it was because my parents wanted us to have savings accounts in our own names. But by the time my kids were born the hospital submitted the soc sec paperwork to the feds along with the birth certificate paperwork to the state and the birth announcement to the newspaper. It's because you can't get welfare or WIC for your kid unless the kid has his/her own social security number. And the hospital assumes everybody giving birth there is on welfare or at least WIC. (And without my income, my husband's salary at the college would have made us eligible for WIC. So they weren't all that far off!)

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