This Just In - There Is A "Moral And Ethical Element" To Abortion Debate

Mark Hemingway of The Corner pans Obama's preparation (none in evidence) and response ("craptacular") to the easily foreseen abortion question at last night's forum.  With lack of preparation as the topic, Mr. Hemingway also cites Obama's blow up when given a chance during a Democratic debate to re-spin his "bitterly clinging" comment.

Let me toss in my personal fave - Obama criticized Hillary for her position on issuing driver's licenses to illegal immigrants, then filibustered when the obvious follow-up - what is his position - was asked.  For a smart guy, he can be pretty dumb sometimes.

OK, back to last night.  Ann Althouse was liveblogging so this answer from Obama got only a bit of the snark it deserved:

7:14: What tough decision has he had to make? He decided to oppose the war in Iraq. His critics can say he's never really had to make a tough decision. Certainly, there were no consequences (except to his own political future) of opposing the war, so this answer exposes his inexperience.

He opposed the war!  Let's cut to Ryan Lizza's profile of Obama in the New Yorker:

Obama’s now famous speech was notable for the absence of the traditional tropes of the antiwar left. In his biography of Obama, David Mendell, noting that Obama’s speech occurred a few months before the official declaration of his U.S. Senate candidacy, suggests that the decision to publicly oppose the war in Iraq was a calculated political move intended to win favor with Saltzman. The suggestion seems dubious; the politics were more in the framing of his opposition, not the decision itself. As Saltzman told me, “He was a Hyde Park state senator. He had to oppose the war!”

90% of the Congressional Black Caucus also opposed the war resolution; Obama did not exactly break out of the pack with this decision.  Obama was also planning a run for the Senate, depending on what Carol Mosely Braun, former Senator and current war opponent, decided to do.  Politically, Obama had no choice but to oppose the war.

And anyway, I have made some tough calls too; I voted for hope and change in the person of Jimmy Carter in 1976, despite his obvious lack of experience, and how did that work out?  Of course, my decision to vote for Carter had absolutely zero impact on the final outcome (look it up - Carter did not carry New Jersey by one vote).  So like Obama, my "tough" decision was free of consequences.

The same can not be said of my decision to back the New England Patriots in the recent Super Bowl.  There I actually experienced the consequence of losing a few bucks, although my decision is probably not what led to the final outcome.  Well, we make these tough calls regularly.

Let's elect Obama quickly so he can add to his resume and make a real decision or two.

Comments

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Obama still doesn't know why he wants to be President. I'll bet even Ted Kennedy could have come up with a reason if he'd been given a do-over.

[SAM]

I thought it odd that Obama cited that as his most difficult decision. He seemed to be making and extraordinary reach. In fact, I've never understood how the MSM has allowed him to get away with his insistence that he was against the war back in 2002. For crying out loud, he was an unaccomplished Illinois state senator who evidently was too busy shooting down legislation to protect infants who survive a partial-birth abortion. Who gives a sh!t what a state legislator thinks about the war? Was he privy to the available intelligence? And why, when he became a senator, did he continue to vote for war funding. He should get no "credit" for that position, if he deserves it at all.

Indeed, though the war was prosecuted poorly for too long, I'm betting that history will conclude that fighting the al Quaeda that were drawn into Iraq was more effective than chasing them in Afghanistan. I keep thinking about the Soviets in Afghanistan, and I always come away thinking that that's a difficult place to fight an enemy.

Anyway, I think Obama got torpedoed last night.

[glasater]

Well, let's elect Obama quickly so he can add to his resume and make a real decision or two

With respect, TM, let us NOT elect BHO for on the job training.

Russia would walk all over this guy--in a New Jersey minute:-)

[kim]

To Life, a high paygrade indeed.
====================

[Jane]

Over and over it looked and sounded like he was looking for the answer that would highlight his political rhetoric - thus the anti-war decision was the biggest, because afterall, it was important to remind people of his judgment. And with all the talk of his thoughtful approach, he appears to scan his memory for what will work for the most people - the religious audience and his base.

OTOH McCain never hesitated to scan his memory. Now maybe we can attribute that to his not having a memory anymore, or maybe his willingness to lay John McCain on the table, for the world to see. His performance was so reminiscent of 2000 last night that it reminded me why I supported him.

[Semanticleo]

"noting that Obama wasn't just bad, but that McCain was very good. He was the perfect balance of likable and serious. He also came across as informed, offered far more policy specifics than Obama, highlighted his faith as was appropriate to the setting,"

I will say McCain FINALLY looked less like Bush on Georgia issue, but unlike the rapscallions here who interpreted my 'surgical strike' comment as the "Grand Tour" across Mother Russia, peppering me with stupid questions like "What would you target in Russia?", my intent would be to strike Russian Goons inside Georgia.

McCain? I suspect his bellicosity would ratchet up to the 'Grand Tour' to reinforce
his 'Tough Guy From America' self-image.

When he says ; "I would pursue Osama bin Laden “to the gates of Hell,” one wonders
whare his unequivocal responses would stop;
the complete destruction of Western Civilization? It's hard to say what a mean, angry old man will do to prove he's tough, isn't it?

As to the burning question: "Does evil exist, and if it does, do we ignore it, negotiate with it, contain it, or defeat it?", McCain has a simple, straightforward
response to the multiple choice question, which excluded 'all of the above'

'Defeat it'

A bold stand. He's for defeating evil, unlike Bush, Vlad's Impaler.

[kim]

Obama had to be against the war to distinguish himself from Hillary; he has to continue to be against it to distinguish himself from Kerry. Semi has similar dissonances. It's Kaka Phony.
================================

[Semanticleo]

I knew there was some familiar resonance to
McCains, "to the Gates of Hell".

"" . . . I'll chase him round Good Hope, and round the Horn, and round the Norway Maelstrom, and round perdition's flames before I give him up. And this is what ye have shipped for, men! to chase that white whale on both sides of land, and over all sides of earth, till he spouts black blood and rolls fin out." (Melville's Moby Dick)

Cap'n Ahab, an excellent American.....

[Rick Ballard]

Freddoso provides an Anatomy of a Lie. Apparently Obama has been demoted a few pay grades since voting that live babies weren't fit to be protected.

Jane,

Hemingway's assessment regarding preparation which TM highlights speaks to my assertion that Obama's competence as a courtroom attorney is suspect. If you regard Warren's Q & A as a type of deposition then Obama's inability to effectively respond to a question that was sure to be asked bespeaks an attorney who should work very hard to stay out of court.

[Danube of Thought]

The question I would like to see asked of Obama is, "what have you ever done that was against the interests of Barack Obama?" And I'd give him as long as he likes to come up with an answer.

Ol' Cleo is apparently dreaming of stout Cortez, with eagle eyes, staring at the Pacific...or something.

[Danube of Thought]

RickB, it's my understanding that Obama avoided courtroom appearances as assiduously as he avoided scholarly work and publishing.

[Jane]

He's never been a Courtroom attorney. At least at the trial Court level. I'd bet my big toe on that. That being said he would be the perfect lawyer for the side that has neither the facts or the law on his side.

In that situation, nuance rules.

[DebinNC]

"But in 2003, in the health committee which he chaired, Obama voted against a version of the bill that contained the specific “neutrality” language..."

As chairman, BO can't play the "I didn't read the bill" card, which I guess leaves lying as the only option.

[Semanticleo]

"Cortez, with eagle eyes, staring at the Pacific...or something."

An apt parallel to McCain?

Cortes with a few dozen horses, couple hundred Spaniards, a few matchlocks and Pikes, destroyed an entire civilization of 'evil'.

For what, you say?

For democracy in Mexico

[Jane]

DOT,

Did you see last night's performance?

[DebinNC]

Obama's legal career: "A review of the cases Obama worked on during his brief legal career shows he played the "strong, silent type" in court, introducing himself and his client, then stepping aside to let other lawyers do the talking."

[MayBee]

His Senator Dick Durbin also voted against the Iraq war authorization.

Surely Obama has had more wrenching decisions. Whether he should stay in the US when his mom returned to Indonesia would have been a good one (he could have turned it into a pro-America moment!). Whether he should have visited his mother before she died of cancer. Whether he should have worked harder to establish relations with his father.

It's such an odd, desperate answer. Does it signal, perhaps, that he will choose someone who voted for the Iraq War Resolution?

[sbw]

Someday I'm going to figure out what 'Cleo stands for... but I'm in no rush because so far, my map of reality seems more accurate and useful.

[Ranger]

Cortes with a few dozen horses, couple hundred Spaniards, a few matchlocks and Pikes, destroyed an entire civilization of 'evil'.

For what, you say?

For democracy in Mexico

Posted by: Semanticleo | August 17, 2008 at 03:31 PM

Yeah, cause its not like the Aztecs cut the beating hearts out of people for popular ammusment... Oh, that's right, they did.

Well, at least they didn't wage war on their neighbors so they could capture prisoners to sacrifice... Oh, that's right, they did that too.

And its not like the Spanish couldn't raise an army of tens of thousends from the local non-Aztec population to wage war against the Aztecs... Oh, that's right, they did.

So, looked at from that viewpoint, the Spanish mission was a great anti-imperialist effort, at least in the view of the non-Aztecs.

[Ranger]

Surely Obama has had more wrenching decisions. Whether he should stay in the US when his mom returned to Indonesia would have been a good one (he could have turned it into a pro-America moment!). Whether he should have visited his mother before she died of cancer. Whether he should have worked harder to establish relations with his father.

Posted by: MayBee | August 17, 2008 at 03:39 PM

Well, I'm surprised he didn't say his decision to break up with a white woman that he loved very much because he feared he was losing his "blackness." But then that might have made him look a little racist.

[BobS]

Geez. I would have thought that for Obama, it really would have been something about Rev. Wright.

[Jane]

That was my first thought too Bob, but after I thought about it, I decided the talking point would be that it was easy to lose Wright once he realized what he was all about.

Funny when stuff comes back to bite you in the butt.

[Ranger]

Geez. I would have thought that for Obama, it really would have been something about Rev. Wright.

Posted by: BobS | August 17, 2008 at 04:24 PM

Nah... that was easy once Wright dissed him and told everybody Barry was just saying what he felt he had to because he was a politician.

[Rick Ballard]

Lesley,

Thank you for the link to the Beldar piece. It provides a nice highlight to the difference between nuance and obscurantism.

It's also a great definitional piece.

[MayBee]

Yeah. I think he wouldn't want to imply, at this point, that he was ever that close to Wright anyway.

[BobS]

Ranger: Your Wright!

[sbw]

The real moral and ethical answer to the abortion question is that we -- parents, politicians, and voters -- need to address the gnawing problem of unwanted children.

Making parents who make mistakes take care of unwanted children does not make them wanted.

[JM Hanes]

Props to Hanson for succinctness here:

Obama’s most gut-wrenching decision? Apparently as a state-legislator in a far left-wing district in Illinois, he opposed the war in Iraq!

Nobody is as profoundly political as Obama. When he pauses, I think he's whirling a mental rolodex of answers matched to addresses.

[Lou Shumaker]

There's a NY Times story by Patrick Healy that tries to put a polish on Obama's inexperience.

This last paragraph got me:

Some say Obama's diffi­culty gaining traction in public opinion polls reflects reservations about this newcomer to national politics. (No, really?!)

"The one area he still needs credibility in is expe­rience, and picking an Evan Bayh or a Joe Biden as vice president would help a lot with that," said John B. Breaux, a former Democrat­ic senator from Louisiana. "It wouldn't be bad if he came out early and said who his secretary of defense and secretary of state would be
— that would address and stabilize the concerns about his experience."

Because of course, there's nothing to reassure jet passengers with an inexperienced pilot at the helm to know that he's getting great support from the ground crew.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Leo, I guess I missed your surgical strike thing; if you want to point me back to it so I can review it, I'd appreciate that. Were you really suggesting that a "strong President" would have called in air strikes against Russia?

I'll wait for a response before I decide about your particular idea, but I will note that I think anyone who thinks entering into a shooting war with Russia would be a good idea, taken lightly, is completely out of their cotton-picking mind.

[Danube of Thought]

Maybe Cleo would feel better if she knew that, actually, Keats was confused--it was not stout Cortez, but stout Balboa, who with eagle eyes stared upon the Pacific. But even so, I'm sure there's something in there about which Cleo can wring her hands.

[Semanticleo]

"it was not stout Cortez, but stout Balboa,"

Well, at least you're re-thinking.

[Semanticleo]

Can't say as much for anyone else here.

[Semanticleo]

Can't say as much for anyone else here.

[Cecil Turner]

Ah, the sublime unintentional irony of self-parody.

[PeterUK]

So little to say you said it twice.

[PeterUK]

"There's a NY Times story by Patrick Healy that tries to put a polish on Obama's inexperience."

Reminds me of the saying,"You can't polish a turd".

[Semanticleo]

"point me back to it so I can review it,"

Sure, Charlie. It was UNFIT FOR TRUTH 8/15

Posted by: Semanticleo | August 15, 2008 at 11:14 AM

"I will note that I think anyone who thinks entering into a shooting war with Russia would be a good idea, taken lightly, is completely out of their cotton-picking mind."

Please also keep in mind, I'm not running for Prez.

[Semanticleo]

Ah, the poster child for redemptive self-examination in hindsight.

[Semanticleo]

"cut the beating hearts out of people for popular ammusment..."

As OtherTom used to say; "you are mind-numbingly ignorant" of Meso-American culture.

[sbw]

As the then 9-year-old friend said as two others bickered in the car, "BUT, WHAT DOES IT MATTER!"

Brilliant. And at such a young age. We could learn from him, eh?

[richard mcenroe]

Semanticleo -- anybody had any trouble with White Wales since?

[Semanticleo]

"anybody had any trouble with White Wales since?"

Not since 'Pequod' went down with all hands...

save one

[Cecil Turner]

Were you really suggesting that a "strong President" would have called in air strikes against Russia?

I believe the specific context was for interdiction in Georgia. (Which is a pretty good indication, IMHO, that the proponent can't read a map.)

[Semanticleo]

IMHO, is, in my opinion, a typo.

Strike IMHO-Insert IMAHO.

[PeterUK]

"Strike IMHO-Insert IMAHO."

Well everybody has to earn a living somehow.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Uh, Leo, do you suppose you could point to the place where you actually suggested what you think a "strong President" would do differently? You don't appear to have said anything except that you don't think Bush was acting like a strong president.

Once you get to that, maybe you could consider whether you are actually suggesting you think we should start a shooting war with the Russians.

[Semanticleo]

Charlie; (sigh) just scroll down for context.

[Danube of Thought]

Call him Ishmael...

"Well, at least you're re-thinking." Not really, Cleo. In Keats's sonnet, "On First Looking Into Chapman's Homer," he wrote of stout Cortez, but did so simply because he misremembered the "History of America" he had been reading. That history contained descriptions of Cortez's first viewing the Valley of Mexico, and also of Balboa's first gazing on the Pacific. He apparently forgot which was which, but what the hell--it's just a sonnet.

The only guy I know of who wanted to get into a shooting war with Russia in recent years was the spectacularly erratic Wesley Clark, who I believe may well be insane.

[Semanticleo]

"consider whether you are actually suggesting you think we should start a shooting war with the Russians."

The Oligarchy is more of a threat than the Jihadists, and has been for some time.

The country is a puppet state with Putin
(cynically 'respecting' their Constitution) still in control. It is a criminal enterprise with the KGB and Russkie Mafia at the helm of the country.

We better stop them before they can reconstitute their military power with the exponential growth of their oil wealth.

Shouldn't we defeat 'evil'?

Or is the fact that they can fight back
make us a little more circumspect about confrontation?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Leo, I read through the whole thing. See those little things down at the bottom right of your posts? Those are called "permalinks". Either give me a link to the post you think answers the question, or at least give me the damn date and time.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Leo, I believe you might want to consider a little circumspection when dealing with evil that has three thousand or so nuclear warheads.

If I'm getting this right, you're annoyed because we did engage in a war with pretty obvious objectives that led to 4000 or so military deaths, and that we didn't jump into a war risking 20 million civilian deaths.

I think, once again, we're simply observed that anything is right, no matter how stupid, as long as it's not what a Republican suggests.

[Semanticleo]

"I believe you might want to consider a little circumspection when dealing with evil that has three thousand or so nuclear warheads."

I think you should look closer at McCain.

I'm not running for President. He is.

[PeterUK]

"Or is the fact that they can fight back
make us a little more circumspect about confrontation?"

"By George, she's got it!"

[Semanticleo]

""By George, she's got it!""

Coward!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PeterUK]

""I believe you might want to consider a little circumspection when dealing with evil that has three thousand or so nuclear warheads."

I think you should look closer at McCain."

As an ex navy man he knows what they can do.It's the bozo with the big ears you have to watch.

[Sue]

Leo would crap his pants if Bush actually did what he is suggesting. It's very easy to talk tough when you feel sure the person in charge is going to be a little more reluctant to start WWIII than you are.

[Danube of Thought]

Has McCain suggested war with Russia? I must have missed it.

The only difference between McCain's and Obama's initial reactions to the invasion was that McCain knew which party was in the wrong, whereas Obama seemed to be neutral as between them. Obama came around to McCain's view within 72 hours, and there's not a dime's worth of difference between them on this issue now. Of course, as ever, Obama claims that "I've always said that..."

[Semanticleo]

"It's very easy to talk tough when you feel sure the person in charge is going to be a little more reluctant to start WWIII than you are."

I doubt this is why McCain was so bellicose
about Russian aggression.

I may yet vote for him, as a batshit crazy
war monger, that is.

[PeterUK]

""By George, she's got it!""

Coward!!!!!!!!!!!!

There goes the neighbourhood
Septic you really are a microcephallic little moron,imagine what thousands of thermonuclear warheads will do to the environment,nuclear winter trumps global warming.

[RichatUF]

Cleo-

The Oligarchy is more of a threat than the Jihadists, and has been for some time.

For some reason I don't recall half-drunk Russians bombing Air Force housing compounds, US embasssies, US war ships, and downtown Manhattan.

We better stop them before they can reconstitute their military power with the exponential growth of their oil wealth.

Shouldn't we defeat 'evil'?

Or is the fact that they can fight back
make us a little more circumspect about confrontation?

I'm not really folowing your point. The Russians can fight well against targets that don't shoot back and can sack empty bases, but this tantrum, the longer it goes on, makes it just that much worse for Russia. As much as they like too, they won't get oil back up to $125/bbl even with the BTC idled.

[Sue]

I doubt this is why McCain was so bellicose about Russian aggression.

Me too. McCain has been bellicose on Russia long before you decided we should be.

[sbw]

Cleo doesn't seem to care about the power of words. Or the consequences of their use.

[Semanticleo]

"McCain has been bellicose on Russia long before you decided we should be."

Yeah, the Ancient Mariner still has Cold War
blood running through his scleroted arteries.

We need a Warrior in the WH.

[PeterUK]

"The Oligarchy is more of a threat than the Jihadists, and has been for some time."

What was the Cold War about then?

[PeterUK]

"We need a Warrior in the WH."

Better a warrior than a worrier.

[Pagar]

"I think you should look closer at McCain."

Once anyone looks closer at McCain compared to the other candidate, I believe every single American should agree: McCain will be the only candidate on the ballot who is qualified to be the next President of the US.

[Semanticleo]

"I believe every single American should agree: McCain will be the only candidate on the ballot who is qualified to be the next President of the US.'

Hear, hear!

[sbw]

Cleo must be bored.

[Semanticleo]

'Cleo must be bored.'

I do expect more of challenge from you fine folks at JOM

[Ranger]

"cut the beating hearts out of people for popular ammusment..."

As OtherTom used to say; "you are mind-numbingly ignorant" of Meso-American culture.

Posted by: Semanticleo | August 17, 2008 at 07:04 PM

Are you suggesting that they didn't conduct public human sacrifice, which included removing the still beating heart of the victim, to give the population a sense of safty and comfort about the future?

[Semanticleo]

"Are you suggesting that they didn't conduct public human sacrifice,"

No, but that's not what you said, is it?

"for popular ammusment..."

May I suggest, "Conquistador: Hernan Cortes, King Montezuma, and the Last Stand of the Aztecs" By Buddy Levy.

[Semanticleo]

Gotta go. It's been fun............

[Joan]

"We need a warrior in the WH."

Oh my goodness, I am LMAO!
Cleo doesn't really want McCain as POTUS.
Cleo wants Obama.

Obama, Cleo's Warrior.

[kim]

I suggest 'Cortez the Killer', by Neil Young.
==========================

[sbw]

Cleo: Gotta go. It's been fun............

Much more preferable: Gotta go. It's been illuminating............

... but that's the difference between people.

[Cecil Turner]

We better stop them before they can reconstitute their military power with the exponential growth of their oil wealth.

They couldn't compete back when they had a comparably-sized economy . . . now Russia has half our population and one-sixth our GDP. If they really want an arms race, "bring it on." That pits our strength against their weakness. But we can't conduct tactical air operations on their doorstep with a supply line thousands of miles long. And anyone who suggests otherwise isn't to be taken seriously.

[BobS]

CT: Richard Holbrooke was on Fox today from Georgia. He said that the Russians are actuallt drunk at their posts. Nevermind them setting everything on fire.

[BobS]

Also, some expert observers have noted that they are using Cold War era equipment. They'd be no match against ourselves or the Brits. I daresay that even the French military is more up to date than the Russians. Far too many jets were shot down by what little the Georgians had.

[Foo Bar]

Obama was also planning a run for the Senate, depending on what Carol Mosely Braun, former Senator and current war opponent, decided to do. Politically, Obama had no choice but to oppose the war.

Right, he had no choice, even though his opponents in the Democratic primary had chosen to lie low without taking a position on the war :

Obama said candidates wishing to unseat Republican Sen. Peter Fitzgerald in 2004 should speak up now as the Bush administration moves closer to using military force against Iraq. `What's tempting is to take the path of least resistance and keep quiet on the issue, knowing that maybe in two or three or six months, at least the fighting will be over and you can see how it plays itself out,' said Obama, a state senator from Chicago." [AP, 3/3/2003]

[Cecil Turner]

Ooooh, what courage.

[Cecil Turner]

He said that the Russians are actuallt drunk at their posts.

The more things change, the more they stay the same, eh? I'm somewhat torn on this issue. Enforced sobriety is a pain, but one of the most pronounced lessons from my DS experience was that banning alcohol has a definite salutary effect on general performance. From the Russian viewpoint, they've already won this one, so it doesn't matter all that much. It does make their troops more obnoxious, but that has never been a big concern for them.

Also, some expert observers have noted that they are using Cold War era equipment.

Yeah, and if they were fighting a modern army, they would've paid for it. But there's nothing really wrong with that stuff if you use it well; especially in a low-threat environment like Georgia. And training and experience is generally more important, anyway.

[BobS]

CT: its easy to wonder then what equipment the Ukrainians, the Poles and Czechs would some persue now. Its hard to iamgine evan Dem controlled congress with Obama saying no to nato allies. The French know how to build stuff too. So do the Czechs.

This is looking more and more as the hours pass as an incredible Putin overreach

[Jane]

Here is the answer to whether the candidates knew the questions in advance from Warren himself - who also confirms McCain didn't cheat.

The pastor spoke to each candidate this week, giving the general themes. Warren decided to tell them each the first two questions in advance, about the three wisest people you know, and the biggest moral failings.

LUN

[JM Hanes]

And after thinking it over, Obama came up with his wife and his typical white grandmother. Doesn't this make Michelle's world view fair game?

[Jane]

Of course not JMH. She's black you know.

[JM Hanes]

Given the venue, Obama also had to know that the abortion question would come up. Lefties must be praying that he didn't actually come up with "Above my pay grade" in advance.

[Sara]

From David Freddoso's book:

He [Obama] promised at a Planned Parenthood event in July 2007 that "the first thing" he will do as president -- his top priority for the nation -- is sign the Freedom of Choice Act, which would erase every federal and state restriction on abortion, no matter how modest. His top priority, again, is to re-legalize partial birth abortion under all circumstances, abolish all laws on informed consent and parental notification, and eliminate all state restrictions on taxpayer funding of abortions.

[Thomas Jackson]

Since the Dalibama's answer to when life begins is "over his pay grade" I think people better start wondering what questions are within his pay grade. Is it GS-1 by the way?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I do expect more of challenge from you fine folks at JOM

Yeah, yeah, Leo, you're trying for satire.

You missed. All you got was incoherence.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Since the Dalibama's answer to when life begins is "over his pay grade" I think people better start wondering what questions are within his pay grade. Is it GS-1 by the way?

Hey, our friend Mr Gyatso is a nice guy, don't go mixing him up with Obama.

As to "above his pay grade", this is the rare thing Obama said that I agree with. What's more, I defy you to come up with an answer that will be convincing to anyone who doesn't start with the same assumptions you have.

[M. Simon]

Please also keep in mind, I'm not running for Prez.

And a good thing to. Got to know your limitations.

[M. Simon]

We better stop them before they can reconstitute their military power with the exponential growth of their oil wealth.

Mere tactics my good man.

Drilling for oil and building refineries is Grand Strategy.

[M. Simon]

But we can't conduct tactical air operations on their doorstep with a supply line thousands of miles long. And anyone who suggests otherwise isn't to be taken seriously.

We can if we want to. Long distance logistics is an American speciality. The Russians? Two hundred miles max.

[Sara]

We can if we want to.

M.Simon, liberals believe that the palace guard of Monaco could defeat the U.S. military, doncha know? Afterall, it is nothing but dumb deadender children good for nothing but cannon fodder.

[PeterUK]

I wasn't aware that morality had a pay scale,Is Obma saying hid moral principles have a price?

[Cecil Turner]

We can if we want to. Long distance logistics is an American speciality. The Russians? Two hundred miles max.

Unfortunately, all of Georgia is within ~100 miles of mainland Russia, and hundreds of miles from our nearest bases in Iraq (with no suitable avenues of approach). We have exactly zero military options in Georgia, and any rational analysis has to acknowledge that reality.

[M. Simon]

Cecil,

Explain again how it is that American planes are regularly landing in Georgia and American ships including war ships are heading to the Black Sea.

How are the 1,000+ American trainers in Georgia being supplied?

BTW how did a few hundred Americans in land locked Afghanistan defeat the Taliban?

Zero options? That seems rather unlikely.

My guess is that Turkey is providing quiet passive support. Those ships have to transit Turkey. Those aircraft have to come from somewhere and cross other countries air space. You will note that none of this passive support is mentioned in the news. And yet it must be there.

How is that possible?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

How is that possible?

They're using exactly those airways and sea lanes that the Russians would act to interdict with force if we were in a shooting war.

The brilliance of this maneuver is that by putting Americans on the ground in Tblisi, and in the air over Georgia, Bush is telling Putin "I don't think you want a shooting war with us. So we're going to supply Georgia; you'll have to start a shooting war to stop us. And you'll have to do it by interfering with 'humanitarian aid', which will just make the Poles, the Balts, and the Ukrainians that much more on our side."

The point is that we've got damn few options that don't involve an all-out shooting war. I mean, hell, we could certainly stop the Russian invasion with a few hundred megatons along the border. This is not a good dea, however. We could put forces on the ground in Georgia, if we wanted to; we could supply them in a shooting war if we could defeat the Russian Navy in the Black Sea and establish air superiority over Georgia. Which we'd have to maintain against a massive conventional military, albeit a not very effective one, with a 12,000 mile supply line for us and a 200 mile supply line for them.

Come on, MS, don't be a ninny.

[Cecil Turner]

They're using exactly those airways and sea lanes that the Russians would act to interdict with force if we were in a shooting war.

Exactly. And if the Russians decide to shoot, those guys die. If you define "military option" as sending military guys somewhere with no intent to fight, then I guess we have a few of those. If you define it as conducting a combat mission with any hope of winning, we don't.