What Were Once Vices Are Now Habits

Excitable Andy has decided to Swift Boat John McCain ["Swift Boat" as meant by the left; see UPDATE]:

I've now heard it countless times. McCain has used what appears to be an intensely personal moment in a prison camp as a reason to vote for him in a campaign ad. As he tells it today, it was the pivotal moment in his struggle to survive in the Hanoi Hilton. And yet, in his first thorough account of his time in captivity, in 1973, the story is absent. The story is also hauntingly like that recounted by Solzhenitsen, as told in Luke Veronis, "The Sign of the Cross":

...

I have one simple question: when was the first time that McCain told this story?

Uh huh.  Because the sign of the cross is a pretty well-kept secret, so how could prison guards invoke it twice in one century?  FWIW, the story appears in McCain's 1999 "Faith Of My Fathers", although I have no idea whether McCain told it earlier.  Lexis mavens?

The Kossacks are on this search for the truth, so we know it will be kept classy.  And speaking of classy, let's crack open the Time Vault and go all the way back to June 30 for a different perspective from a then Non-Excitable Andy:

This kind of personal attack was repulsive coming against Kerry from the far right. And it's repulsive the other way round. Both Kerry and McCain served their country honorably; and their records should be revered, period. You can make an argument against McCain's foreign policy experience and judgment on its merits. Do it and leave this crap out of it.

Well, that was almost two months ago.  Evidently the bell has rung and now its time to bring the crap.

And since we are bringing crap, let me help.  Andy links to McCain's first person account of his captivity as told to US News and World Report in May 1973.  McCain came home on March 15, 1973, so he had already had two months to recover from the physical and mental trauma of his captivity, gather his thoughts, and present every important detail.

Let's see - McCain mentions the prisoner tap with this introduction:

While I was in the prison we called "The Plantation" in October, 1968, there was a room behind me. I heard some noise in there so I started tapping on the wall. Our call-up sign was the old "shave and a haircut," and then the other guy would come back with the two taps, "six bits."

Well, that is a bald faced lie - everyone knows it is "Shave and a haircut - two bits."  What, was there a high incidence of inflation in Vietnam?  Or had McCain even been in Vietnam?  [Hmm, pushback in the comments here and from 2004].

And I have picked up another clear fabrication.  In the context of the interrogation debate McCain has frequently told the story of his own presentation of false information under torture; his tale is that he gave up the names of the Green Bay Packer offensive line rather than his fellow aviators.  Or maybe the Pittsburgh Steelers.  But no such story appears in his 1973 account, back when he was still groggy from captivity.  That pretty much proves the Packer/Steeler story is false, too. Right?

And people take McCain's Presidential qualifications seriously.

The context of Excitable's original question (and certainly the Kos conjecture) seems to be the suspicion that McCain has invented this story as a bone to throw to the religious right.  Well, McCain is a crafty planner, because here is what he wrote in 1973:

I was finding that prayer helped. It wasn't a question of asking for superhuman strength or for God to strike the North Vietnamese dead. It was asking for moral and physical courage, for guidance and wisdom to do the right thing. I asked for comfort when I was in pain, and sometimes I received relief. I was sustained in many times of trial.

I bet he meant it, but maybe he is lying and never really prayed while in captivity.  Or he prayed but never found any comfort in it.  Any takers?  Excitable?

If I may dare to play armchair psychologist - one point of the "cross in dirt" story is McCain's recognition of and reconciliation to the humanity of his often brutal captors.  My guess is that in May of 1973 he had not fully worked through his issues with the North Vietnamese.

UPDATE:  Good point by Sue in the comments and highlighted by Glenn - "Swift Boating" means different things to the right and left.  As a proud Swiftboater myself (in the political, 2004 sense) I should be more vigilant about maintaining that distinction.

PROPS:  Jane scores:

I say Andy and the kos kids should go for it.  I love the smell of backlash in the morning.

Smells like hilarity.

INSPIRED, NO DOUBT, BY SOLZHENITSEN:  Bill Clinton hits the beach at Omaha:

At the end of the day in Normandy, Bill Clinton walked down to the beach with three veterans of Omaha Beach -- Joe Dawson, Walter Ehlers and Robert Slaughter. The tableau was appealing: the young President enjoying the company of the aging heroes. But suddenly the President's aides began tugging the veterans away, mid-conversation, so that Clinton could walk off at sunset down the beach in his dress shoes and have a preplanned meditative moment, with the bluffs on one side and the sea dotted with warships on the other.

Originally, the White House told photographers they were considering a "Where Have All the Flowers Gone?" moment, where Clinton and children would throw flowers into the sea.

But they settled on "a moment of solitude." The President knew he was supposed to look reflective for the three cameras and dozen photographers who joined him. But after looking soulfully out at the ocean for a moment, he seemed at a loss for what to do next, according to a photographer on the scene, who was scared that Clinton was about to mouth the words "What do I do now?" But then, spying the stones at his feet left by his advance staff to show him where his camera mark was, the President crouched down and began to arrange the stones into a cross. He gathered more stones to finish the cross, and then bent his head as though in silent prayer.

The White House aides were ecstatic. "Wasn't it great?" they asked reporters.

Hmm, maybe McCain was ripping off Clinton...

Dan Riehl has more.  Turns out the sign of the cross is somewhat well known.

STICKING TOGETHER:  Orson Swindle, a fellow POW who has been with the McCain campaign, vouches for McCain to Byron York, but I don't know - this old Swindle story makes me suspicious:

That's when he learned to lie, figuring he could give them just enough truth to make his lies believable. When the interrogators wanted Swindle to name the men in his squadron, he told them he couldn't think in such pain. They'd have to loosen the ropes to get anything out of him. When they started to loosen his bindings, he gave them the names of his high-school football coach and assistant coach, saying that was is squadron commander and executive officer.

When they loosened the ropes some more, he gave them the names of his entire high-school football team as his squadron's pilots. Swindle chuckled as he recalled a welcome-home gala several years later in his small south-Georgia hometown. "All those guys were in the audience," he said. "And I said, 'You better not ever go to North Vietnam, because they're looking for you.'"

Cmon, weren't any of these naval aviators baseball players or fans?  That's a mighty big coincidence that McCain and Swindle both picked football teams to baffle their captors.

ANOTHER CROSS STORY:  The Confederate Yankee recounts the cross story told by Sen. Denton.

Comments

[Captain Hate]

I can't wait for the display of your love of the first amendment.

Unfortunately, I'm seeing a display of your lack of understanding of the Bill of Rights. And the failure of public schools.

[kim]

Progs blowing about McCain in Vietnam are reminiscent of whales stranded on the beach. God, I hope they push that meme. Halp me, Jon Cary, I am stuk in this ole mudhole, with the Hanoi Blues again.
======================================

[OrionCA]

"Senator John Sidney McCain, III is a remarkable man who has made enormous personal achievements. And he is a man that I am proud to call a fellow POW who "Returned With Honor." "

Why would we want to denigrate him? Butler, unlike you, can express himself with elegance and logic in his arguments. He makes his case for not voting for McCain in a civil manner. Reasonable people may disagree with him and still not condemn him for his beliefs or how he expresses these.

You on the other hand argue like an illiterate, foul-mouthed 14-year old who's found the password to Daddy's computer and are taking it out for your first spin on the Web. The really pathetic part is you think you're CLEVER. I once had a senior DNC party strategist tell me that he'd like to take people like you out and shoot you because every time you open your mouths you cost him 50 votes. Whatever good Mr. Butler's statement might have done the Democrats you've ruined by opening your cesspool of a mouth. Censor you? If you were dumb enough to let me, I'd take out full-page ads across the country simply QUOTING YOU and your ilk, word for misbegotten word. Clever? You're so clever that you HAVE won elections for the Republicans.

And the delicious part is, you're not going to believe me. You're too stupid to understand one word in three of what I've said. If anything I've just encouraged you to spew more nonsense, disgust more voters, and reduce your chances of gaining power even more.

[Patton]

I don't expect Andrew Sullivan nor his left wing buds to understand that most likely McCain wouldn't write about the story back in the seventies because ANDREW, IT WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THE PRISON GUARD KILLED, YOU STUPID NUMBSKULL!

Or do you forget that the Democrats made sure the Vietcong won and that guard would have been killed if this information got back to the Vietcong.

[Sara]

Mocking honor and integrity, now that is a brilliant campaign strategy.

[Soylent Red]

Orion:

It's his computer. I can tell by the Slipknot desktop image.

And, nowhere in the entire piece did Butler say or suggest that he would vote for the Obamessiah (PBUH). My guess is that Butler is either a chronic aginner, or a Ronulan.

[Patton]

Obama wrote a 450 page book about his entire boring life where essentially nothing of significance nor importance ever happened. But Andrew thinks McCain should have mentioned everything that happened in his 5 years as a POW in one article.

Me thinks the left is starting to lash out at McCain because they are starting to realize how badly they screwed up by picking Obama.

[DrJ]

We've seen these pigeons flutter in and out for a while now (often from a cite from Instapundit) and I really wonder why they bother. They certainly don't know the people or ideas here, they mention only talking points that will sway no one, and they certainly don't listen to anything in response to their nonsense.

So what's the point? To see one's words on the computer screen? To attempt to misdirect a topic (there will be plenty of others)? What?

[kim]

Right, Patton, it has the flavor of bitter grapes, particularly in the denigrating of something that Obama is deficient in. Obama a war hero? Better make all the vets like Kerry. Such dissonance. It helps explain why they are making such poor choices for Presidential candidates. I mean, really, when have the Democrats last nominated a really good person? Someone with a little principle behind them, like Mondale or Dukakis. It is indeed pitiful that we have to look to those two losers for the last honorable people to run as Democrats.
=======================================

[Sara]

And unlike a certain coward, John effn Kerry, we can have a look at John McCain's Navy Records

[Danube of Thought]

"I can't wait for the display of your love of the first amendment."

There's still more than three months to go, but at this point that's my pick to click as the dumbest comment posted here in calendar 2008.

[Danube of Thought]

Butler certainly confirms John's heroism as a POW. Appears to me that the reason he's not voting for him is that he's a conservative Republican. He'd get quite an argument on that one around here. When a guy starts talking about "Bush's war," you know he's on the fringe.

[kim]

Not dumb at all, Tom; he's just informed by the behaviour on lefty blogs and was sure he was about to be banned. You can tell by the absence of a second act. And Semi, c'mon, can't you work up a little enthusiasm for Obama? You are disreputable when you just phone it in.
====================================

[bad]

Geez, I leave for a bit and miss the fun. The poor little bugger...

[Sara]

Oh don't worry bad, they are like cockroaches, you never see just one.

[hit and run]

Yeah, I missed the fun too. I wanted to play the part of faux Jane sock puppet.

but deciding on a name is so hard...

Jane and run
or
hit and on Jane

[bad]

Back off Hit, she's mine.

[bad]

Under proposed convention bylaws, delegates would be forced to register their votes on a tally sheet with the convention secretary

The party that wants to eliminate secret ballots for unions is feeling threatened by an open vote: for or against Hillary Clinton!!

LUN

[Lesley]

RE: Obama's Most Difficult Decision

Some years ago, a female friend of mine opened a small art gallery with another woman. Both of these women were doctor's wives with loads of time and money on their hands. At some point, their relationship foundered, and according to their articles of incorporation, each had the option to buy out the other should there be a desire to end the business partnership.

The other woman was an absolutely beautiful gal, blonde, size 2, early forties, lovely home, lots of friends, cute kids, picture-perfect life. Even her doctor husband was really good-looking. Nevertheless, she was devastated by the stress of breaking up the partnership and having to negotiate who bought out whom. In tearfully expressing her feelings about all this, she said: This is the WORST THING that's happened to me since I didn't make cheerleading my junior year in high school!!!!"

Ladies and gentlemen, this woman was SERIOUS, I kid you not.

Truthfully, I think Obama's bit was sheer political chum for his base, however in a larger sense, the shallowness of his remark reminded me of this woman. Perhaps, in both their cases, it was/is true: hers, the worst - his, the most difficult. Guess this woman and Obama must lead pretty charmed lives.

Sue, congrats. It was great to see your name up in lights twice today. (Jane too!)

Rick Ballard - your probably missed my question on the Sunday thread. Would you please re-explain your Krugman comment?

[Jane]

I am happily all of yours.

I see Joe-ass got bored. C'est la vie.

[Sue]

Lesley (and bad, I missed yours earlier),

Thanks. I think Glenn has a crush on me. 2x for anonymous blogger? I don't think so. It has to be the pink ear muffs.

[Sue]

Oh. I elevated myself unintentionally. I'm not a blogger. I am a commenter.

[bgates]

that's my pick to click as the dumbest comment posted here in calendar 2008
Like pointing down and saying, "that's the smelliest vomit in the whole Bourbon Street gutter." I could probably prove you wrong if I looked, but who wins in that scenario?

[Patton]

You McCain supporters just don't get it. Of course the POWs are liars and traitors. They were working for the enemy, the United States against the proud Peoples Workers United Communists and perveryors of fine Societ style death and destruction Party of Vietnam.

Just like General Betrayus in Iraq was working against the cause of the US getting defeated. Understanding the left wants America to lose and you understand their comments and actions.

[hit and run]

Back off Glenn, she's mine!

[Harley]

Ahh, c'mon, Tom, at least try to keep up. Here's Mister Swindle, back in May:

“I don’t recall us talking specifically about our faith,” says Orson Swindle, one of McCain’s closest friends and a fellow POW. “We talked about our friends, families, our resistance posture, and that our country didn’t seem to have the will to win.”
Belief in a higher power helped them survive the routine torture and daily indignities, Swindle says. “It would help us endure what we had to endure. But we knew God wasn’t going to come down and wave a magic wand.”

Gee. Funny how his memory improved.

[sbw]

Pickin' nits.

Harley, you could see the breadth and depth of substantive concerns about Obama if you'd only turn around and look. But, nope, it goes against your convictions.

[Sara]

“I don’t recall us talking specifically about our faith,”

Harley: Gee. Funny how his memory improved.

McCain didn't say anything about talking specifically about his faith. He talked about the demonstrated faith of a potentially sympathetic prison guard. And you can bet your last dollar and your first born that they talked plenty about which guards were more sympathetic or more vicious and evil than others.

It is called "know they enemy" and would be a top priority to share every nugget that gave the group insight into those who controlled whether they lived another 5 min.

[Sara]

sorry

[Sara]

First the Catholics, now the Muslims:

Muslim group tries to ban bloggers from DNC

[Orion]

Gee. Funny how his memory improved.

I dunno. Swindle said he never discussed religion with McCain, not that he never mentioned a guard did him a favor on the sly once.

To dispute McCain's account you have to question his honesty and integrity. To do that you should be able to point to a pattern of deceptiveness on McCain's part throughout the years, kind of like Bubba's "but I never INHALED!" equivocations. But you just can't do that for McCain. Say what you will, he's always been a straight shooter. Even "joey"'s favorite http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html>McCain critic never called him a liar. Butler doesn't want him for President, but not because he thinks the man is untruthful. Says something about a man when even his (sane) critics admit he's a man of good character.

[Gehrg]

This is all so nothing. You pitiful earthlings on your little mud ball of a planet .
Viewed from my perspective I see nothing but mouths and a**holes connected by long tubes of S**t squabbling over absolutely nothing while a very large rock is heading your way to make the final remark... so silly

[Daddy]

Gee, Isn't it amazing how quick the left is to leap upon McCain as a lying so-and-so, without waiting to getting input from any of his fellow POW's, yet when tapes surface of Pastor Wright's vile, anti-American rants from the pulpit, they instantly believe Obama when he say's gosh, during my 20 years in the Congregation I never ever heard such stuff.

[furious]

Wouldn't surprise me that a North Vietnamese prison guard, in his 20s or 30s during the late 1960s, would trace a cross in the ground as some some of devotional.

Prior to falling to the Viet Minh in 1954, Vietnam north of the 38th parallel was the base of the French colonial authority (Hanoi) and heavily Catholic. Would not be a stretch that a NVA conscript in the late 1960s would have been baptized Catholic as a child and remember some of his Catechism.

Excitable Andy was never the same after Bushco squashed his dream of nationalized Gay Marriage. He is absolutely unreadable now.

--furious

[joeyess]

not one of you commented on the links I provided. You asked for specifics I provided them and you insulted me without addressing the fundamental truths that I provided.

Evidence that you follow blindly your candidate where ever he goes. Be it Syria, Iran, Georgia, you name the conflict.

That's the difference between you and I. I question my government out of love for my country. You accepted as edict your governments deeds out of a sick authoritarian need to be led.

Sad. For a bunch of self-professed bootstrappers, you sure do follow without question, no matter the devastating consequences to the nation you supposedly love and cherish.

Lemmins. Every one of you.

[Orion]

Viewed from my perspective I see nothing but mouths and a**holes connected by long tubes of S**t squabbling over absolutely nothing while a very large rock is heading your way to make the final remark... so silly

Oh, that. I targetted it with a graviton beam from my moonbase a couple of weeks ago. The increase in mass has shifted it into a more shallow orbit and it will zip by the Moon and around the Earth, finally falling into the Sun. I don't *think* there's anything in the way unless you plunked one of your stealthed battle stations in that direction.

[Orion]

Gee, Isn't it amazing how quick the left is to leap upon McCain as a lying so-and-so, without waiting to getting input from any of his fellow POW's, yet when tapes surface of Pastor Wright's vile, anti-American rants from the pulpit, they instantly believe Obama when he say's gosh, during my 20 years in the Congregation I never ever heard such stuff.

After Obama's pathetic performance, sans teleprompter Saturday, they're desperate to change the subject.

[Cecil Turner]

That's the difference between you and I. I question my government out of love for my country.

Personally I'm less than impressed with both parties in Congress for voting for a war and then failing to prosecute it energetically. And in particular with those who throw faux crises into the mix (e.g., "torture"; "wiretapping"; "close Gitmo"; or "no blood for oil"). And though the GOP is hardly blameless, the preponderance of the defeatist or treasonous behavior is from leftards spouting enemy propaganda.

If "wiretapping" and "domestic surveillance" means intercepting communications to Al Qaeda whilst fighting a war against 'em, I'm all for it. And and if "torture" is the stuff we do to our own troops for training (now watered down to exclude even the more energetic forms of those), it ain't keeping me up nights.

In any event the ad hominem invective is both fallacious and unpersuasive. If it makes you feel better, great. But if you want to question something, I'd suggest starting with your assumptions.

[kim]

Joeyess, your 'dear leader' isn't questioning the government for love of his country. It's pretty clear he doesn't like it worth a damn. Then again, he's had a warped upbringing; no one around him has thought much of it either.
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[Captain Hate]

That's the difference between you and I. I question my government out of love for my country. You accepted as edict your governments deeds out of a sick authoritarian need to be led.

That's really pathetic, joey. You've had a series of poor excuses for teachers who filled your head with useless tripe about questioning authority without ever educating you on how to form a logical argument. And now you whine because we don't take you seriously. Lose that "authoritarian need to be led" garbage; your lefty friends are the ones that have a hard time with the concept of making smart choices in life and can't cross the street without instructions from the feds.

[royf]

Geez don't the leftard/obamabots ever get issued new talking points? They storm in here with the most stale, juvenile and erroneous posts and expect JOMers to take them seriously. I've been reading here for about 3 years and everything these last trolls spew has been swatted down at least a hundred times. They are the only ones who are blind to how stupid and lemming like they act.

[Jane]

Lemmins. Every one of you.

Markos is calling your name Joe-ass. Go back and tell him "mission accomplished".

[bgates]

Did it misspell "lemons" or "lemmings"?

joeyess, your whining about being insulted tells me it bothers you. Since you introduced yourself by slinging insults, that delights me, you worthless little fuck. Your candidate will be crushed, and you will spend another four years imagining you're living in a prison state. During that time, Iran and Syria may be liberated from tyranny, events which will be only made sweeter by the howls of protest from myopic morons like you. You've been taken in by a con artist, unlike all of us and the majority of the voting public. Lucky for you you live in a country where your betters safeguard your best interests, while looking out for our own.

[Sara]

The AP calls McCain supporter Senator Joe Lieberman a prick.

Hot Air reports:

One of the most amusing typos of the season turned up for awhile overnight in a major Associated Press dispatch. Some in the liberal blogosphere, who have often criticized Sen. Joe Lieberman -- the Democrat turned Independent who has endorsed John McCain -- found it all too apt.

The typo, in an article on the upcoming vice presidential picks due from McCain and Barack Obama and written by one of the top AP political scribes, Nedra Pickler, was soon corrected but can still be found viewed via Google at numerous news sites early this morning.

After focusing on Obama, the article discusses several possible McCain picks, and relates, "His top contenders are said to include Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney. Less traditional choices mentioned include former Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Ridge, an abortion-rights supporter, and Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman, the Democratic vice presidential prick in 2000 who now is an independent."

GAG!!!!

[battery]

The typo, in an article on the upcoming vice presidential picks due from McCain and Barack Obama and written by one of the top AP political scribes, Nedra Pickler, was soon corrected but can still be found viewed via Google at numerous news sites early this morning.