Powered by TypePad

« Sarah's Night - Open Thread | Main | Boys Will Be Boys? »

September 04, 2008

Comments

anduril

Simon, quoting something, as I did, is not necessarily an indication of 100% agreement. I certainly agree that Russia shouldn't overplay its (overall) far weaker hand, but then neither should we. I agree Russia should play nice and should be called on it if they don't. But we haven't always played nice during the past two decades or so, either. As for the Iraq war, the proof will be in the pudding, and I'm not making predictions because I don't consider myself an expert. My claim is that the point is debatable. Certainly our involvement in Iraq has been a heavy strategic drag. The thing is, the likelihood is that the pudding won't be done cooking for several years at least after we pull out.

Enlightened

Oooohhhh....getting a little snappish are we? Awww.....the evil sturm and drang of one Bristol Palin is just not connecting with anyone out there except for those of you way out there in left field. Pity such high minded individuals are having such a tough time attempting to destroy a heretofore unknown 17 year old....

The swamprot might be stifling your halo.

larwyn

TARANTO SCORES:



The 'Community Organizer's' New Clothes
By JAMES TARANTO
September 4, 2008

ST. PAUL, Minn.--"Community organizer" is to Barack Obama what "war hero" was to John Kerry.

To be sure, the analogy is imprecise. After all, Americans know what a war hero is, and the question in 2004 was whether Kerry really was one. It also was awkward for Republicans to address Kerry's war-hero claims directly, because on paper his military record was more impressive than that of President Bush, who only served stateside.

By contrast, it is a mystery exactly what a "community organizer" does, as we wrote Friday, after John McCain chose Alaska's Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate:

Obama spokesman Bill Burton quickly denounced McCain for proposing to put "the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency." This took a degree of chutzpah, since the Democrats have just spent four days touting Obama's experience as a "community organizer" as a central qualification to put him no heartbeats away. Even after listening to those speeches, we're still not sure what a "community organizer" is.

Are we supposed to cast our eyes on the slums of Chicago, behold how well organized they are, and exclaim in wonder, "Wow, Barack Obama did that!"?

Unlike with Kerry, Republicans (who coincidentally have a real war hero atop the ticket this year) have no reason to hold back the mockery. And mock they did. Sarah Palin slammed Obama in the course of describing her days as mayor:

Before I became governor of the great state of Alaska, I was mayor of my hometown.

And since our opponents in this presidential election seem to look down on that experience, let me explain to them what the job involves.

I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a "community organizer," except that you have actual responsibilities.

It's a good line, but it still doesn't explain what a "community organizer" does. Take away the "actual responsibilities" of a small-town mayor, and you have . . . nothing. Oh wait, that's her point, isn't it?

But the mystery of the "community organizer's" job description was solved this morning, when an Obama campaign email, signed by the delightfully named David Plouffe, popped into our inbox. It is worth quoting at length:

I wasn't planning on sending you something tonight. But if you saw what I saw from the Republican convention, you know that it demands a response.

I saw John McCain's attack squad of negative, cynical politicians. They lied about Barack Obama and Joe Biden, and they attacked you for being a part of this campaign.

But worst of all--and this deserves to be noted--they insulted the very idea that ordinary people have a role to play in our political process.

You know that despite what John McCain and his attack squad say, everyday people have the power to build something extraordinary when we come together. Make a donation of $5 or more right now to remind them.

Both Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin specifically mocked Barack's experience as a community organizer on the South Side of Chicago more than two decades ago, where he worked with people who had lost jobs and been left behind when the local steel plants closed.

Let's clarify something for them right now.

Community organizing is how ordinary people respond to out-of-touch politicians and their failed policies.

And it's no surprise that, after eight years of George Bush, millions of people have found that by coming together in their local communities they can change the course of history. That promise is what our campaign has been about from the beginning.

That's right--community organizing consists of helping elect Barack Obama president! This fits right in with Obama's claim, noted here yesterday, that he is more qualified to be president than Palin is to be vice president because, whereas she has run a mere town, he has run a campaign for himself.

The community Barack Obama has organized is, in Plouffe's own telling, the community of those who admire Barack Obama. He is mayor of Obamaville and aspires to be president of Barackistan. At the center of it all is a man who, like Hans Christian Andersen's naked emperor, may or may not believe that his veneer of accomplishment is real.
..................
James has plenty more, if you don't get the email go to
http://online.wsj.com/article/best_of_the_web_today.html

Sara (Pal2Pal)

"impulsive" is not exactly the first word that comes to mind for either a trained fighter pilot or a prisoner of war. Willing risk taker maybe, but impulsive, I doubt it.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Your choice is clear in this election:

HERO

or

ZERO

Vote accordingly

Danube of Thought

OK, Appalled, that's your "stance." Yiou have elected not to support it with a shred of evidence.

Anduril, I'm awfully glad to have got under your skin, you pathetic dunce. And if you haven't the balls to respond to the challenge I issued you, then respond to this one:

Tell us one instance of John McCain casting a vote that he would not have cast were he not impulsive. Put up or shut up.

And for God's sake, do you really want to make us all scroll down past endless drivel from Shlomo ben Ami?

M. Simon

Zero is not just going to lose. He is going to get whipped.

He is going to take a significant part of the Congress with him.

What is the the key: Zero is a weak man. His running mate is a well known blowhard.

Americans will stand almost anything in a candidate but weakness. They can smell it. The most obvious point of weakness? He couldn't choose Clinton as his running mate.

"A"s choose "A"s. "B"s choose "C"s. And Biden is as third rate as it gets.

McCain had the courage to choose a VP who in fact outshines him. Obama? Chose the dimmest suitable bulb he could find.

sbw

On the Palin family comments, Anduril, I am reminded of two historical associations:

1) Nattering nabobs of negativism

and

2) Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?"

As my son used to say, "Sucks to be you."

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Author of Us Weekly cover story on Palin: I’m voting McCain!

MayBee

anduril- you needn't put hunk in quotation marks. Levi is objectively a hunk.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

LOL

ANN ALTHOUSE on criticism of Palin for being sarcastic. "When a man agonizes that a woman is 'brutally cutting,' I reach for my Freud text."

M. Simon

Well yes. Iraq is a drag. We have the best most combat tested military in the world. What a drag.

And month by month more troops are freed from Iraq as the Iraqi Army takes over Iraq. Did you know that Anbar has been turned over to the Iraqis? How many brigades does that free up?

Russia should have no trouble with us guarding its former vassals if it doesn't want them back. If it does want them back they will have trouble. Their choice.

anduril

sbw, somehow your post reminds me of Oliver Wendell Holmes: "Three generations of idiots is enough!" What an articulate son you have.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

I just heard that Obama wanted not a Bush/McCain type surge, but a "holistic surge."

Can someone explain to me what a "holistic surge" is seeing as how I'm not a graduate of an Ivy League school.

boris

a trained fighter pilot

There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are no old bold pilots.

Danube of Thought

Wow. Off-topic, but check this out:

"(CBS) The presidential race between Barack Obama and John McCain is now even at 42 percent, according to a new CBS News poll conducted Monday-Wednesday of this week. Twelve percent are undecided according to the poll, and one percent said they wouldn't vote.

"This is in contrast to a poll conducted last weekend, where the Obama-Biden ticket led McCain-Palin by eight points, 48 percent to 40 percent."

I don't take much stock in CBS's polling, and this one doesn't square at all with Gallup or Ras. I'm not drawing any conclusions until next Wednesday.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Megan Kelly just did a take down on one of those Obama Generals. Left him speechless and confused.

jean

There is the reason Obama going to quit the campaign.He is needed to lead the holistic surge

Danube of Thought

Anduril, you preposterous gasbag, somehow your most recent post reminds me that you have not responded to the challenge I issued at 4:59.

Put up or shut up.

And if you're inclined to give us ten thousand more well-chosen words from Shlomo ben-Ami, then the shut up option would be preferable.

Jane

Hmmm. I'm not gonna do that if I'll just be wasting my time. Will you promise to drag your eyes away from photos of your "hunk" Levi and read what I write?


Assuming you attack it with the same passion and interest, I'll look forward to it.

BTW are you opposed to women looking at good looking men?

Enlightened

Jeez, the only person I've seen slavering over Levi is anduril.

bad

Was it Newsweek that carried the Obama walkback from his previous statement of attending church every Sunday?

As I recall he told Newsweek he didn't attend church very often after his oldest daughter was born because of the difficulty involved.

Contrast that view with Sarah's ability to deal with whatever comes her way. I wonder how often the Palin's attend church...

Danube of Thought

The General's position was that the surge was neither a success nor a failure, because there was no surge.

God, I'd pay them to keep this stuff up.

Captain Hate

"When a man agonizes that a woman is 'brutally cutting,' I reach for my Freud text."

Bwaaaahhh. Wtf is it with the donks coming up with so many metrowimps for candidates with wives that probably beat the carp out of them on a regular basis? I'd seriously love to play hoops against Barry; good chance I could t-bag him.

GMax

I saw the CBS poll. Includes the weekend, and is a RV poll and still shows tied. That means McCain/Palin is up. And it probably gets better as the convention sinks in and folks talk around the water cooler.

Danube of Thought

"Will you promise to drag your eyes away from photos of your 'hunk' Levi and read what I write?"

We love to read what you write, Anduril, because it's so goddam dumb that we all have fun mocking you. But reading the endless off-topic cut-and-pastes from the likes of your boy Shlomo, that's another matter--no promises there, pal.

And put up or shut up.

Enlightened

Ewwww. DOT! I hope your definition of T-Bag is different than the one I'm used to seeing on AoS??????

Thomas Jackson

You can always tell when the opposition is devastated. They start charging you're guilty of cow tipping and your husband was a member of Netflix in 1971. But they never, never show the flaws in her record nor how poor her judgement is in comparison with your candidate.

Rather we hear all those trite and sanctimonious bs that the Left loves and trots out every year. Racism, sexism, class warfare, they play it all.

So Palin is hurting them badly. Its all over folks. Its 1972 again.


Can't wait to hear the excuses the Progressive Marxists will offer for the landslide thats coming.

clarice

"holistic surge" def. Send in the community organizers.

thelonereader

Hey all,
AP article says stage at Repub Conv. is being rebuilt to McCain's townhall type of setting.
Go McCain!!!!!!

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Last night Sarah recognized Tom Moe, a fellow POW and talked about how McCain would give a smile and thumbs up as he was dragged back to his cell after intense torture and interrogation. She called it the "nightmare world."

Here is a description of Tom Moe's nightmare, via Powerline:

Moe was forced to huddle on a stool in the same position 24 hours a day for 10 straight days. Guards stuffed a rag into his mouth, draped another rag over his mouth and slowly poured water onto his face until he thrashed in panic and passed out. They shackled him so tightly his arms turned black. They beat him so badly his kidneys shut down, ribs cracked and eyes swelled shut. Six feet tall, his weight dipped below 100 pounds.

Moe spent nine months without seeing, hearing or talking to another American. He lived in a 6-foot by about 4-foot concrete cell. In his head, he made lists, designed homes, derived mathematical formulas, reviewed the German he had learned in college. Anything to pass the time.

Enlightened

Make that Cap Hate, not DOT-

Danube of Thought

Enlightened, it was Cap'n Hate who used T-bag, and I have no idea what it means. My term was "gasbag," meaning Anduril.

Captain Hate

I hope your definition of T-Bag is different than the one I'm used to seeing on AoS??????

Different only that I have my shorts on.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

"holistic surge" def. Send in the community organizers.

Aaah, I had visions of lava lamps replacing night vision goggles and incense sticks and chants replacing guns and oorahs.

Enlightened

Ruh Roh. Rep Lynn Westmoreland used a southern colloquialism in reference to the Obama's - They're "uppity".

Of course the Merriam Webster definition is: Arrogant, Presumptuous

But we know that the deranged leftwing and equally deranged MSM will promptly translate it to "He means they are uppity n--gers".

Racism stopwatch starts now.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Hey all,
AP article says stage at Repub Conv. is being rebuilt to McCain's townhall type of setting.
Go McCain!!!!!!

Glad to see someone is reading JOM. Remember you heard it here first. :)

DebinNC

"As I recall he told Newsweek he didn't attend church very often after his oldest daughter was born because of the difficulty involved."

I think that's right, and his older daughter was born in 1998. But here's what he said in a 2004 interview:

GG:
Do you still attend Trinity?

OBAMA:
Yep. Every week. 11 oclock service.

anduril

Jane, I'm gonna assume GOP opposition research will do a better job than I ever could--I'll leave it to them. I expect no better than that from Dems, anyway. Good looking HS dropouts? You need a life. How sad that you choose to inflict your excuse for one on the internet reading public at large.

Enlightened

DOT - You are not on a need to know basis (trust me)

Cap Hate - 6 degrees of separation....still gross.

Enlightened

Holy.Shite.

TM is now forcing the internet public to read JOM.

How utterly - Orwellian.

Bushes Brain is afoot in the blog I suspect.

larwyn

Anyone have connections with the REPUBS' TALKING POINTS ISSUERS???

SICK OF hearing that REPUBS HAD CONTROL OF GOV FOR 8 YEARS.

Who the heck is Tom Daschel??? Does anyone remember that he was called the SENATE MAJORITY LEADER until Jan 2003, for a reason, the DEMS controlled the SENATE for first two years of Bush ADMIN.

Since Jan of 2007, they call Pelosi "SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE" and that slimey Harry Reid is SENATE MAJORITY LEADER!

Please, I can't stand hearing "in control for past 8 years"!!!

Sara (Pal2Pal)

London Sun:

A WEEK ago nobody had ever heard of her. Today she is the most talked-about woman in the world. And with good reason.

Sarah Palin's sensational performance at the Republican Party Convention may turn out to be the tipping point of this rollercoaster American election.

Obama fans hoping she would fluff her big night were in for a nasty shock.

This speech has turned the election upside down. It was simply stunning.

Democrats and their Lefty media backers had been sneering that she was a small town nobody, a hick from the Alaskan sticks put into a job way beyond an inexperienced woman.

Believe me, you will not be hearing that again.

Palin turned out to be an electrifying mix of intelligence, passion, energy, optimism and plain speaking. ...

From the moment she walked on stage in this cavernous bear pit, bandbox smart in cream jacket, trim black skirt and black heels, she proved that John McCain knew exactly what he was doing when he picked her as running mate. ...

She is popular with voters for the very reason America's snooty political establishment despises her: She isn't one of the Washington gang.

She's a moose-hunting mum of five with a sledge-load of problems behind her own front door that workaday Americans can relate to. ...

Compared to the journeyman career politicians dominating both parties here she seemed fresh, natural, one of us and not one of them. ...

What will have scared the enemy camp most is the devastating series of prime-time punches she landed on the jutting Obama jaw. Showing steel beneath her magnolia jacket, she slaughtered his lack of experience, his vanity, his emptiness beneath the windy waffle.

It was the most powerful demolition of the Democrat hero I have heard in two weeks on the US election trail. The St Paul audience adored her. ...

And when McCain joined the Palin gang – babies and boyfriends and all – on stage after her speech there was a sense of cheeky fun absent from last week's solemn Obama coronation.

Captain Hate

Dear MSM: Read the Sun article and learn what accurately reporting a story is about, because you have debased the term "journalism" into something much different. Morons.

larwyn

GERAGHTY:

Us Magazine Seems To Be Misjudging Their Readers

Currently at Us magazine - where Obama fan Jann Wenner offered the over-the-top "BABIES, LIES AND SCANDAL" cover story on Palin — they're conducting an online poll. They ask, "After watching her speech, do you think Sarah Palin would make a good vice president?"

"Yes" currently has 135,061 votes, or 83.16 percent. "No" has 27,351 votes, or 16.84 percent.

09/04 04:33 PM

Sue

That's right--community organizing consists of helping elect Barack Obama president! This fits right in with Obama's claim, noted here yesterday, that he is more qualified to be president than Palin is to be vice president because, whereas she has run a mere town, he has run a campaign for himself.

Well I'll be damned. Hillary was right. He has been running for president for a long, long time.

Jim Rhoads aka Vnjagvet

Anduril is a skeptic on Iraq. That is a fair position. In 2003, there were a number of options based on the information available at the time as to whether to open a second front on the WOT and, if so, where.

Iraq was one of those options.

Whatever view one has now, as a military matter, Iraq was at least a reasonable option in 2003.

Like any option, it had known advantages and disadvantages, and unknown advantages and disadvantages.

On balance, it seemed in 2005 and 2006 that the actual disadvantages outweighed the advantages because many of the tactical decisions made to implement the strategy were questionable.

Then in 2007 a change in command and tactics was implemented with excellent results. Now it appears the advantages of Iraq outweigh the disadvantages.

That's how wars work.

Look at the Civil War. from 1861-July, 1863, the war went very poorly for the Union. After Gettysburg, things changed. Lincoln put Grant in charge who implemented the new tactic. Relentlessly pursue Lee and destroy his army.

Look at WWII. From 1939 until 1943 the Allies were on defense and in retreat. Then Ike, Arnold, MacArthur and Nimitz took command and the multi-front onslaught against the axis began.

Once a strategic decision is made, if it is at all viable, history teaches persistence and tactical flexibility are the most important qualities determining victory or defeat.

IMO, McCain is most likely to be able to finish the job.

DebinNC

John Coleman via Betsy's Page: Statistical evidence of McCain's maverick status

"He [McCain] has voted against his party majority about 15 to 25% of the time across the Bush years, compared to about 3% for Obama and 5 to 10% for Biden."

PeterUK

Attacks on Sarah Palin sexist-Democrat

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Petraeus Recommends One Brigade Leave Iraq

That is brigades not battalions, a mistake that Biden has now made 3 times in speeches.

Enlightened

Jane - here's my favorite good looking, hunky high school dropouts:

Tom Cruise
Daniel Craig
Johnny Depp
(Younger) Robert DeNiro
Barry and Robin Gibb
Cary Grant
Laird Hamilton
George Harrison
(Younger) Tom Jones
Jude Law
Heath Ledger
Dean Martin
(Younger) Al Pacino
Joaquin Phoenix
Seal
James Taylor
Randy Travis
John Travolta
Stevie Ray Vaughan
(Younger) Neil Young
Pierce Brosnan
Roberto Clemente
Russell Crowe
Djimon Hounsou

Jane

YOU have very good taste Enlightened!

JM Hanes

anduril:

"Is this a smear?" you ask. Let's examine the only direct quote from Palin in the article you excerpted above:

"Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right also for this country," Gov. Palin said, in a video of the talk posted on the church's Web site. Pray "that our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure we're praying for: that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."
My admittedly rough translation from Evangelical to Standard English would be: Let us pray that we are doing the right thing, which seems reasonable enough. Proceeding on to Gushee, whom you highlight, I found the term "Christian ethicist" intriguing. Wondering if that would be an ethicist who is a Christian himself or one who puts Christians under his ethicist's looking glass, I checked the Mercer University Mission Statement:
Mercer University is a faith-based institution of higher learning that seeks to achieve excellence and scholarly discipline in the fields of liberal learning and professional knowledge.  The institution is guided by the historic principles of religious and intellectual freedom, while affirming religious and moral values that arise from the Judeo-Christian understanding of the world.
I suppose one man's fruitcake is another man's ethicist, but this one hails from a Georgia Baptist institution which couldn't possibly have any axes to grind with competing brands of Christianity, could it? Speaking of grinding axes, perhaps you could share the Catholic position on evangelicals, as well. In this same vein, I believe there are some who find the practice of ritual cannibalism symbolized in communion "troubling" as well. You don't suppose that would qualify as a smear, do you?

Moving right along:

Just 15 years ago, a different Republican vice president was ripping into the creators of Murphy Brown for flaunting a working woman who chose to become a single mother.
Since Bristol Palin is not choosing to become a single mother, I'm not sure how accepting a young mother who chooses to keep her baby and marry the father qualifies as flipping the culture war on its head. I guess one man's "interesting coverage" is another's bizarre perspective.

"Don't miss Kaus' comments"

I'm happy to report that I almost never miss Kaus' interesting coverage. Since you only refer obliquely to his main point about "boilerplate Shrumian populism," I will do the honors:

Doesn't it show how meaninglessly vague the Shrum formulation is if it can be comfortably adopted by the Republican candidate?

"Simon, quoting something, as I did, is not necessarily an indication of 100% agreement."

As I've noted before, in light of your carefully edited quoting, that sounds suspiciously like plausible deniability to me. Absent any indication from you, what sort of endorsement percentage would you suggest we apply?

MayBee

What, you don't think high school drop out Peter Jennings is hunky?

We don't know that he's dropped out of school, by the way. Shockingly, all we know is that his parents won't comment on where he's currently going to school. FWIW, Bristol transferred schools this year.

Captain Hate

Stevie Ray Vaughan

Hit hard with the ugly stick

bad

Jane

Levi's HOT.

PeterUK

To">http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00393/PeterBrookes385_393721a.jpg">To Obama

bad

Thanks Peter!!

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Todd Palin speaks and you can read all about it HERE

Example:

And as if to issue a warning to Joe Biden, the proud husband and father said: “When my wife starts talking about reform and corruption. It’s best to get out of the way.”
Enlightened

Ya like that list? Hunky, male, punks, high school drop outs - NOT COMMUNITY ORGANIZERS.

How the left can push the drivel they do and keep a straight face is just priceless.

Enlightened

"Hit hard with the ugly stick"

Shallow, so shallow.

Stevie Ray Vaughan was hotter than hot as a guitarist, and in live concert.

Molon Labe

Puck Obama.

Danube of Thought

One quibble, Jim Rhoads: Out in the Pacific, in the immediate aftermath of Midway (early June '42), we went on the offensive at Guadalcanal (August) and advanced constantly thereafter without falling back.

Rick Ballard

Peter,

Think we should call him Bullwinkle from now on?

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Obama doesn't need speechwriters, he has Duval Patrick.

(Andy McCarthy, NRO)

MayBee

I do think you could be a high school dropout and a community organizer, and spare yourself some law school loan debt.

Pofarmer

I love the way that the McCain/Palin campaign has defined this zero experience debate.

If Barack doesn't confront it, he loses.

If he does confront it, they will skewer him. I doubt many people would appreciate what actually went on at the CAC, or what "Community Organizing" actually entailed.

Captain Hate

Stevie Ray Vaughan was hotter than hot as a guitarist, and in live concert.

Eh, if that's what you like; he was ok to me but there were some I liked better, like Danny Gatton. Plus I liked Clapton better, even if people give me strange looks over that.

PeterUK

Perhaps those who delight in lynching a 17 year old pregnant girl in public should remember the words " There,but for the grace of God, go I".

Amazing how "liberal" liberals are," Do as thou will" when it is politically expedient so to be.Generally liberals advocate copulating with anything with a pulse,or not,why limit themselves,somehow sex for procreation is wrong.

matt

Sara;

A holistic surge usually starts with a quiet room with candles. Someone then comes in and does a massagey thing that's not really massage..then you feel all funny inside...the surge, you see....

Sue

I bet Obama is smoking again. ::grin::

PeterUK

"Think we should call him Bullwinkle from now on?"

Barraq Hussein Bullwinkle,has a nice ring to it.
Bullwinkle and Rocky Biden

Enlightened

Looks like St. Andy is fomenting the Meth Capital of Alaska meme.

Another moron going with facts before the news cycle. Boy you know Jason Leopold is out there slithering around somewhere mumbling 21...21...21...

anduril

Jim, thanks for your thoughtful comments. Here's the problem with your comparison. Wars, if we're to accept Clausewitz's view, are politics by other means. What that means is that wars should be judged as successful or unsuccessful by how well they accomplish the policy objectives on behalf of which they were waged. The civil war, like many another war, was a pretty mixed bag. Yes, we held the Union together. Slavery was abolished, but Jim Crow--slavery by another name--was instituted and maintained for far too long (my wife just finished reading a book on the great Mississippi flood of 1927, which featured such actions--among many examples--dynamiting levees to spare wealthy white areas at the expense of poor, heavily black, areas). In a very real sense, the Civil War is not yet over--even as we wage another type of civil war--the Culture War.

In the case of Iraq, as I said, the verdict will be out for years to come. Right now we don't know, but we may suspect, that it is our overwhelming military presence that is holding things together. There are good reasons to believe that when we leave Iraq will revert to something more in keeping with its past. Whether that will ultimately better, worse, or the same as the Saddam era only time will tell. Our avowed aim was to establish a democracy somewhat in our image. I think anyone who knows anything knows that isn't going to happen. The real question is whether the outcome will, nevertheless, have been worth the cost.

Yes, I agree, we have to make a decision in history--to fail to act is also to act. Whether our decision was wise--or even fortunate, in the event--only time will tell.

Enlightened

Is it a Holistic Surge, or a Holistic Purge?


I think holistic-y arugula-ites(no offense) people really like those cleansing purges.....so perhaps The One made a Freudian slip? Maybe he meant his Purge worked wonderfully?

PeterUK

"Looks like St. Andy is fomenting the Meth Capital of Alaska meme."

Don't you mean Miss Havisham?

matt

Captain;

You gotta give it to Stevie Ray...His progression was incredible...from Hendrix wannabe to out and out smoking.....listen to Riviera Paradise.....as good as anything I've heard in jazz..props to Clapton, but I think SR went farther faster and grew more over time.......

anduril

Jim, judged by my standards, WWII was probably a very successful war. Even supposing that it continued to the end of the Cold War. We achieved our end to a great degree.

Jim Rhoads aka Vnjagvet

You are right, of course, DOT. The paragraph should read:

From 1939 until 1942 the Allies were on defense and in retreat. Then Ike, Arnold, MacArthur and Nimitz took command and the multi-front onslaught against the axis began.

Typing not keeping up with an old man's mind.

JM Hanes

"holistic surge"

I'm afraid I don't own an Alinsky manual, but perhaps someone who does could check the glossary. I suspect it has something to do with civilians "coming together in their local communities" to face down the rising tide of global warming.

In other news, this was Roland Martin's take on Republicans laughing at references to community organizers: they're just proving that they hate black poor people.

matt

Anduril;

They have been pulling troops out of Iraq for months...Even when we had a surge, it was still limited to only the worst areas. The rest sort of fell in line...That's what overwhelming firepower, community policing, and neighborhood building tend to accomplish....slowly but surely we're pulling back even as they argue the point...heck, apparently even Obama said something today about the surge working....his head didn't explode, so I'm not sure if it's true....

Sara (Pal2Pal)

For the record:

Fox News report:

“The Alaska governor overcame several glitches and technical problems to deliver her speech without getting flustered, impressing McCain and his staff and allowing them to breathe a sigh of relief.

Foremost of the obstacles, Palin’s teleprompter was not working properly. When she took the podium, the machine rolled so quickly, it often skipped the first line or two of every paragraph on screen. The operator said he had new equipment and wasn’t sure how it would work.

However, Palin also went on stage with a slightly outdated hard copy of her speech. For various unexplained reasons, she and her closest advisers had an old draft on hand, and even had a hard time furnishing one of those for her to use. Several of the drafts were scribbled on, so one aide gave Palin a wrinkled, folded copy out of his pocket.

Officials said Palin responded in mom-like fashion, concluding, “Well, I suppose I could put a book on it and smooth it out a little.”

During one part of her speech, she couldn’t see the teleprompter because signs were blocking it. That was when she ad-libbed a line about the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull — “lipstick.”

kim

We had several avowed aims, and to denigrate a newborn democracy because it doesn't much resemble our mature(?) one is disingenuous. Why do you keep pulling this carp? Do you not recognize it as such?
====================================

PeterUK

"holistic surge",sounds like a euphemism for throwing up.

MarkO

This just in:

Obama-backer Bening pillories Palin


You'd think of all women she would understand the need to get pregnant to snare your man.

bad

Is this where I can get me a surge?

bad

Score, MarkO

Sara (Pal2Pal)

The holistic surge thingy came from the Obama General. Pauley?

kim

Isn't Bening's only claim to being relevant is that she comes from the same hometown as Stanley Ann Dunham? Who asked her, anyway?
=====================================

PeterUK

“What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?”

“One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

“The other kills her own food.”

The Times

kaz

I'm amused. While trying to catch up with the comments in the thread, my phone rang and a polite young fellow identified himself as a poll taker for some organization or other. After asking how closely I was following the election [very], how certain I was to vote [very], who I was voting for [Palin, er, uh McC], and how certain I was about my selection [very] he thanked me for my time and informed me in a very dispirited voice that the poll had been paid for by the Democratic Party of Virginia. I don't think I've heard that much resignation in anyone's voice since my youngest daughter came home holding out her car keys and her first ever speeding ticket. I'm guessing he's getting more answers like mine than he expected.

JM Hanes

anduril:

All your examples suggest to me is that the putative Clausewitzian equivalence between war and politics deserves much closer examination by those who so casually accept it as definitive. At best, it's a highly questionable basis for logical argument, especially when used, as you employ it here, to define politics as metaphorical war -- a conflation based upon ignoring the salient, distinguishing features of both. Clausewitz is doubtless rolling in his grave.

bad

Way to go kaz.

JM Hanes

MarkO:

You'd also think that the last thing the Obama campaign would want to bring up is drugs, too. Fortunately, their understanding of cause and effect appears limited -- that is to say, fortunate unless Obama manages to elected, of course.

Sue

I must admit, watching John McCain walk through an airport carrying his own bags, and hearing the announcer say his money was gone, his campaign was gone, he didn't quite, gives me a little bit of pride in our next CiC.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

RNC Picks Up $1 Million After Palin Speech 

Enlightened

Hmmm. The Annette Benning "pillory" was kind of lame if you ask me - she merely stated she doesn't think alot of Hillary voters will turn to McCain/Palin.

I missed the part where she pilloried Palin? She didn't sound like she was ridiculing her?

Anyway - Annette Benning makes a forgetable movie every now and then and has a hubby the same age as McCain.

Jim Rhoads aka Vnjagvet

Our avowed aim [in Iraq]was to establish a democracy somewhat in our image.

I understand that was one of the objectives.

But IMO, the purely military objectives were to take out one leg of the "axis of evil", and to establish a US presence in a location which, with Afghanistan, isolates Iran, the third leg of that axis.

Those have clearly been met.

Now on to Clausewitz. The non-military means often take more time. After WWII was won militarily, it arguably took forty-five years to win it in Clausewitzian(word?) terms when the Soviet Union collapsed. This took several creative tactics under the leadership of succeeding administrations: The Marshall Plan, NATO, SEATO, the arms race, Star Wars. The leadership of two Presidents, Truman and Reagan were key in making these tactics work. But leadership in Congress and other institutions were essential to make it work.

As to the Civil War, it did preserve the Union. Slavery was eliminated.

The secondary gain of full citizenship rights for African Americans was not realized in spite of Amendments 13-15 largely because Presidential leadership for that result virtually disappeared with the Lincoln assassination.

It took the assassination of another President nearly 100 years later for the restoration of legal rights for African Americans.

45 years later, we are still working on eliminating de facto racial discrimination against our fellow citizens. Whether this is possible so long as humans act like humans, I can't say. But I am sure no war could have caused that result.

Sue

I love me some Trace Atkins, but even I will admit some people shouldn't sing the National Anthem.

Jane

Can I say something really bad and horrible - yes I can:

I just saw a promo for Obama's o'Reilly appearance, and that is one mean pimple on the side of his nose.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Wilson/Plame