Barack Versus Barack On Iraq

Yesterday Amir Taheri of the NY Post made news [and followed up] with the allegation that Barack Obama, during his fact-finding tour to Iraq in July, had interjected himself into negotiations with Iraq:

WHILE campaigning in public for a speedy withdrawal of US troops from Iraq, Sen. Barack Obama has tried in private to persuade Iraqi leaders to delay an agreement on a draw-down of the American military presence.

According to Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari, Obama made his demand for delay a key theme of his discussions with Iraqi leaders in Baghdad in July.

"He asked why we were not prepared to delay an agreement until after the US elections and the formation of a new administration in Washington," Zebari said in an interview.

Obama insisted that Congress should be involved in negotiations on the status of US troops - and that it was in the interests of both sides not to have an agreement negotiated by the Bush administration in its "state of weakness and political confusion."

The Obama campaign a baffling "denial" which some keen observers noted did not seem to deny much:

But Obama's national security spokeswoman Wendy Morigi said Taheri's article bore "as much resemblance to the truth as a McCain campaign commercial."

In fact, Obama had told the Iraqis that they should not rush through a "Strategic Framework Agreement" governing the future of US forces until after President George W. Bush leaves office, she said.

In the face of resistance from Bush, the Democrat has long said that any such agreement must be reviewed by the US Congress as it would tie a future administration's hands on Iraq.

"Barack Obama has never urged a delay in negotiations, nor has he urged a delay in immediately beginning a responsible drawdown of our combat brigades," Morigi said.

Now, this could actually be meaningful if taken at face value.  The US has been negotiating two related agreements with Iraq: the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) replaced the UN mandate under which US forces would operate until Dec 31 2008, and covered such issues as aspirational time horizons and conditions-based withdrawals; the Strategic Framework Agreement (SFA) covered broader issues between the two countries (CNN, LA Times, C Rice).  (Unsurprisingly, Congress would like to have a role in this process.)

So if Obama could convincingly argue that he was asking the Iraqis to go slow on the Strategic Framework Agreement while moving full speed ahead on the Status of Forces Agreement, his rebuttal to the Taheri story would mean something.

But is such a claim plausible?  Well, it sets Obama against Obama - here is what we see at his website, with my emphasis:

The Status-of-Forces-Agreement

Obama believes any Status of Forces Agreement, or any strategic framework agreement, should be negotiated in the context of a broader commitment by the U.S. to begin withdrawing its troops and forswearing permanent bases. Obama also believes that any security accord must be subject to Congressional approval. It is unacceptable that the Iraqi government will present the agreement to the Iraqi parliament for approval—yet the Bush administration will not do the same with the U.S. Congress. The Bush administration must submit the agreement to Congress or allow the next administration to negotiate an agreement that has bipartisan support here at home and makes absolutely clear that the U.S. will not maintain permanent bases in Iraq.

The SOFA and SFA are both distinguished and mingled in this passage.  Is SOFA included in the "any" security accord which must be subject to US approval?  Presumably, since other evidence indicates Congress wants a role in this.  And since US troops levels and withdrawal timelines can be governed by SOFA (see anonymous Iraqi official here), doesn't it follow that Obama was comfortable having the next Administration negotiate it so as to avoid permanent bases?

And if Obama thinks the SOFA should only be negotiated in the context of a broader commitment to withdraw (presumably covered in the Framework) and is asking the Iraqis to go slow on the Framework, doesn't it follow that he is looking for them to slow down on the SOFA?

Beyond that, the press report of Obama's denial also jumbles SOFA and SFA - let's focus on this:

In fact, Obama had told the Iraqis that they should not rush through a "Strategic Framework Agreement" governing the future of US forces until after President George W. Bush leaves office, she said.

The future of US forces was certainly being discussed in the SOFA as well as the Strategic Framework, so this certainly creates an opportunity for misunderstanding, at a minimum.  Or maybe this is bum reporting.

If Obama simply read to an Iraqi official the words on his website then this reporting from Taheri would be reasonable, so I'll repeat it for emphasis:

According to Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari, Obama made his demand for delay a key theme of his discussions with Iraqi leaders in Baghdad in July.

"He asked why we were not prepared to delay an agreement until after the US elections and the formation of a new administration in Washington," Zebari said in an interview.

Obama insisted that Congress should be involved in negotiations on the status of US troops - and that it was in the interests of both sides not to have an agreement negotiated by the Bush administration in its "state of weakness and political confusion."

At a minimum I think Obama has been caught reading his campaign literature to foreign negotiators, which may have led to confusion.

MORE:  Background on other SOFAs.  This is thought-provoking:

SOFAs are often included, along with other types of military agreements, as part
of a comprehensive security arrangement with a particular country. A SOFA itself does not constitute a security arrangement; rather, it establishes the rights and privileges of U.S. personnel present in a country in support of the larger security arrangement.

From that alone one might plausibly argue that the SOFA would normally cover the legal status of US forces and the Framework would cover strategic issues such as military bases, therefore clarifying Obama's blurry website.  However...

There has been considerable interest in possible future security agreements
between the United States and Iraq. The Administration has indicated that it intends to enter into two distinctive agreements. The first is a non-binding security agreement, and the second is a U.S.-Iraq SOFA. The SOFA may be unique from other SOFAs concluded by the United States in that it may contain authorization by the host government — the government of Iraq — for U.S. forces to engage in military operations within Iraq.

Permission to operate within Iraq was going to a part of this SOFA, and eventually aspirational timelines were included as well.  That blurs the line between status and strategy.

UPDATE:  This story is lifting off - a follow from Taheri, and I should have more.

Comments

[DebinNC]

HotAir posted something astounding, if true. After AP reported Gov. Sebelius' "Republicans are racist" smear, they've now sanitized their earlier report... putting new words in place of the original. LUN

I never remember AP changing an article except to add new info or make a correction. Something as incendiary as what Sebelius said is normally highly newsworthy. Journalistically, how can they justify dropping her smear unless they originally misquoted her?

[Sue]

Debbie,

Wouldn't they have just put in a correction? SBW should know.

[clarice]

That's very nicely done, sbw.

[clarice]

Rasmussen comes in with a far more realstic (I think) pic of NY than I've seen elsewhere:"The race for New York is the closest it’s been in six months, but Barack Obama still leads John McCain by 13 points, 55% to 42%, in the latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of voters in the state.

Obama has the support of 79% of Democrats and 21% of Republicans, while McCain is backed by 77% of GOP voters and 19% of Democrats. Unaffiliated voters favor McCain 50% to 44% (see crosstabs).

Last month, Obama led by 20, and in late June, he held a 31-point lead on his Republican opponent.

This is the first survey in the state since both men chose their running mates. Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin is viewed Very Favorably by 30% of New York voters, while 21% feel that way about her Democratic counterpart, Joseph Biden. The same number have a Very Unfavorable view of Biden, but more voters (37%) say that of Palin."

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

OMG. This is as bad or worse than the clinging God lovers:

Via Gateway Pundit:

Joe Biden tells small town America, Barack Obama is too smart for your neighborhood, and they're not used to somebody really smart or well educated.

"All this stuff about how different Barack Obama is, they're not just used to somebody really smart. They're just not used to somebody who's really well educated. They just don't know quite how to handle it. Cause if he's as smart as Barack is he must not be from my neighborhood."

[MayBee]

Glad Glenda and Ann are safe and sound!

[Sue]

Sara,

The beauty of Biden is he is Biden. No matter what he says, people just say oh well, that's just Biden. ::eyeroll::

[sbw]

The AP news wire itself would have had a new version of the article so that both would be visible to editors, in chronological order. On a local news website, it would probably have had to have been a manual correction, if, for instance, AP sent an advisory for editors to correct an online article.

After a quick look, the AP story did not appear on our version of the wire.

[Elliott]

Glenda and Ann,

Great to have you both back.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

The beauty of Biden is he is Biden. No matter what he says, people just say oh well, that's just Biden. ::eyeroll::

Not if Palin gets wind of it. This tailor-made for her and she'll have a field day with it as she campaigns in all those small towns.

[JM Hanes]

Ann! I've been wondering where you were. Had no idea you were getting tossed around by Ike. You guys got the wind, while we just got a much needed night of steady rain.

Sympathies Jane! Did anybody worth voting for decide to take Kerry on? I've never really gotten Kerry's appeal. Does he pork? Or are people thinking they need to preserve his seniority, with Teddy looking like retirement may be coming soon?

[JM Hanes]

"Democrats on Capitol Hill who support Obama say no. Wanting Obama to win, however, none will say so on the record."

You know, I'm wondering if deep in their hearts Democrats might be starting to worry about Obama winning, not losing.

[Rocco]

Stolen from Shane in NH on Michael Graham's blog.

"Saying that McCain can't send an email in an ad is about as classy as saying that Franklin Roosevelt wouldn't stand up during the pledge of allegiance."

[michaelt]

Bi-den! Apply foot directly to the mouth.
Bi-den! Apply foot directly to the mouth. Bi-den! Apply foot directly to the mouth.

[bad]

Does he pork?

Only with Taraaaaaaaaza.

[Rocco]

Headline I'd like to see...

Barney Frank up to his eyeballs in Freddie Mac's Fanny

[Rocco]

aw jeeze...forgot the Mae

[bad]

LOL Rocco

[Jane]

Sympathies Jane! Did anybody worth voting for decide to take Kerry on?

Don't know much about O'Reilly who was his democrat challanger, but Jeff Beatty is contesting in the general. Republicans have no money in MA, so there really isn't a campaign going on except for Kerry's ads which talk about how much he has done for veterans for the most part.

It's gross.

[Pofarmer]

O'Reilly simply doesn't understand business and will not listen to people who do.

Now there's an understatement.

I'm wondering exactly what O'reilly does understand.

[Porchlight]

Hi, Ann! Glad you are okay. The Ohio situation is crazy. My friend in Cincinnati emailed (from her iPhone) to say their power is out and they were told it wouldn't be back on until 9/20! Sheesh.

[glenda waggoner]

Ann- so glad you are safe. It is expected here on Galveston Bay to have occasional hurricane winds, but OHIO?????

Thanks, everyone, for all the kindness.

I really missed a lot-at our place by Kerrville, Tx. we keep putting off getting satelitte tv because we are outside mostly when there, but after this last 5 day stint with the Dad(86), Stepmother(78), husband, daughter and grandson and 14 year-old peki-mutt who would not let me out of her sight,here I come direct TV! I would go sit in the car and listen to Fox and CNN(only for weather) on XM, but really missed most political news. From what I heard Palin did well, McCain's lead in the polls has held and the hope of the world(Obama) is getting ugly and toting around a teleprompter--now that should be enough for anyone with an IQ of 100 to not vote for him!

Pray for the people of Galveston, it is absolutely horrible on the West End and to the East, Bolivar Peninsula. I live in Texas City and it has survived well compared to so many others. Life goes on and we will help all rebuild.

Clarice, doesn't Fannie's Raines live down the street from you? Selling @ 8-9 million?
I wonder if the Gorelicks, Raines, JJohnson,
Babs Streisand, will deign to send relief to victims of Hurricane IKE or because it wasn't a democrat nightmare like NO they'll ignore it? You know even River Oaks and Memorial still have power off--those rich democrats that live here will remember who
helped them and the least, also. Even though Texas was always McCain's we all know people and have family across the country. I haven't read a lot of coverage, yet, but I don't see Obamaland worrying about the losses of Texas' hearths.

And Rangel claiming ignorance on his tax responsibilities? People, people, people-this is just the beginning if Obama wins.
A liar is a liar is a liar. PFFTTT!

OK, my rant is over, I have a grateful heart for all, but suffering fools at a time like this IS hard!

[Porchlight]

Sara, those emails to Obama supporters in Virginia and Maryland are hilarious. Dan Riehl's punchline (with the map) was a hoot too.

[Neo]

This seems to condense it quite well ...

The untold story in this whole national crisis is that President Clinton put on steroids the Community Redevelopment Act, a well-intended Carter-era law designed to encourage minority homeownership. And in so doing, he helped create the market for the risky subprime loans that he and Democrats now decry as not only greedy but "predatory."

Yes, the market was fueled by greed and overleveraging in the secondary market for subprimes, vis-a-vis mortgaged-backed securities traded on Wall Street. But the seed was planted in the '90s by Clinton and his social engineers. They were the political catalyst behind this slow-motion financial train wreck.

And it was the Clinton administration that mismanaged the quasi-governmental agencies that over the decades have come to manage the real estate market in America.

Story short, Clinton et al super-charged the role of Fannie and her brother Freddie Mac, appointed a bunch of cronies to sack them, others joined in the fun, and we are left with a big mess that will cost billions.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Glenda: Everyone was praying for you and it is great to hear you are okay.

I heard President Bush say today that he hopes the country does not suffer from "disaster fatigue," in speaking about contributions, especially for the Red Cross.

[centralcal]

Glenda! Hooray, you're okay too? So nice to have you back.

[hit and run]

So happy to hear from you Glenda, and hear that you are safe.

[Danube of Thought]

Jane, I think that's just brilliant. I'd love to see that one hammered home for weeks to come.

Sara, what they're doing in the Obama campaign reminds me of the classic all-hands announcement aboard ship: "Now all hands forward lay aft. Now all hands aft lay forward. Now all hands amidships, stand by to direct traffic."

[Elliott]

McCain has run a brilliant campaign since whats-his-name came on board

The magnificent bald man* (along with the disaffected duo of Matthew Dowd and Mike Murphy) was last seen making easy work Phil Angelides in 2006. I wouldn't be surprised to see a reprise of this ad in the final weeks.
____________________
*Not to be confused with You-know-who.

[Ann]

Way OT,

Thanks everyone for your kind comments, but my idle dark time was not a loss. Halloween pranks start mid September here, so we put our dark side to work last night. We rigged our biggest competitor's cars (since the electric was out his cars were not in his garage) with a string of twenty plus cans per car under the carriage of each.

They awoke this morning with a card from me on the window wishing them Halloween wishes but when they backed up..all they could think about was the cost of repairs for the horrible noise under their car. Reports this evening show we fooled everyone of them...Happy Halloween!!!!

If you want I will report on the payback. Also if anyone has great Halloween pranks please let me know your ideas.

You have to enjoy life no matter what happens!!!

[hit and run]

And yes, definitely, precious Ann, glad to hear that the huffing and puffing did not blow your house down...

OK, I can't stay. One post after this and then off to bed.

[Barney Frank]

Headline I'd like to see...

Barney Frank up to his eyeballs in Freddie Mac's Fanny

I refuse to be the butt of you anal retentive right wing asses.

[Elliott]

Ann,

Consider yourself nominated. Will someone second the nomination?

[hit and run]

I leave you with one thought going all the way back up to TM's post...

[VIMH: You're going on topic?!?!?! You? This can't be happening.]
Trust me, it's not.

TM:
And if Obama thinks the SOFA should only be negotiated in the context of a broader commitment to withdraw

Barack Obama is SOFA King We Todd It.

(Surelyl you've heard that one before, but if you haven't, say it out loud. And if you don't hear it, say it to an adult nearby who does not possess tender sensibilities regarding rough and un-PC language, and ask them to tell you what you just said)

Good night stars, good night air. Good night noises everywhere.

[Rocco]

Sorry Barney...is this better?

Freddie Mac Fanny May Expose Barney Frank

[Porchlight]

Will someone second the nomination?

I second it!

[Porchlight]

Barack Obama is SOFA King We Todd It.

LOL hit.

Btw "Good night air" is my two-year-old's favorite page in the book.

[GMax]

Good night moon, good night great green room ...

[invernessie]

Jane:

In 2005 I recognized that Fannie Mae and Freddie Macs lending practices were leading this country to financial disaster. I voted to overhaul the system. Every democrat voted to keep it the way it was.

Since then, every major executive of FM and FM have become multi-millionaires at the expense of the taxpayers.

What are those men doing now? Each and every one of them is an economic advisor to Barack Obama.

~~~

I need a last line.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is not the change that the Country was waiting for....

[Elliott]

With only one candidate having qualified, in accordance with the duly established bylaws of the JOM comment section, I move that, in place of a roll call of the state delegations, she be nominated by acclamation.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Victory: Calif. court shoots down illegal alien tuition breaks

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

JUNEAU, Alaska - Alaska’s attorney general says state employees subpoenaed in the investigation of Gov. Sarah Palin will not testify.

In a letter to the Democratic state senator overseeing the investigation, Attorney General Talis Colberg asks that the subpoenas be withdrawn. He also says the employees will not appear before the investigator unless either the full state Senate or the entire Alaska Legislature votes to compel their testimony.

[J Verner]

Hey All,

Ya know, I swear IBD is starting to be my favorite Editorial page. Today it reminded me that not only has Obama lied over Iraq, his name was also found on that FARC computer captured by the Columbian government. No wonder he worked hard to block the free trade agreement with Columbia! FARC is the pet of many neo-marxist think tanks in DC. For neo-marxist democrats, like those you find in CIP or ISP for example, FARC aren't a bunch of marcoterrorists...no, no. They are freedom fighters!

I really had not paid the attention to Barak's foreign policy team that I should have. There's just sooo much about him that is so disturbing, that he lies about and that he tries to hide.

So I did a quick google to find out who those 300 foreign policy advisers might be. And lo and behold--high on the list, and I would imagine on the short list for secretary of state, is none other than ANTHONY LAKE.

Anthony Lake--early member of the Institute for Policy Studies--an outfit known for it's ties to the KGB. Anthony Lake, whose name was withdrawn from nomination for CIA director in 1997 (and be sure to read the Congressional Record to know WHY! What an eye opener!)

I think seeing Lake in such an important position of authority is much more damning than his associations with Writht and Ayers. Wright and Ayers, when you get right down to it, are pretty pathetic. Lake, on the other hand, has managed to make his way almost to the top.

BO might make a show of those 300 foreign policy advisers--and does anyone have a list of just who they are? But he's only listening to a few--and Lake is certainly one of them. His lies over Iraq are covered in Lake's fingerprints.

[J Verner]

Here's a list from the WaPo in October 2007:

Former Amb. Jeffrey Bader, President Clinton’s National Security Council Asia specialist and now head of Brookings’s China center, national security adviser

Mark Brzezinski, President Clinton’s National Security Council Southeast Europe specialist and now a partner at law firm McGuireWoods, national security adviser

Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Carter’s national security adviser and now a Center for Strategic and International Studies counselor and trustee and frequent guest on PBS’s NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, foreign policy adviser

Richard A. Clarke, President Clinton and President George W. Bush’s counterterrorism czar and now head of Good Harbor Consulting and an ABC News contributor, sometimes Obama adviser

Gregory B. Craig, State Department director of policy planning under President Clinton and now a partner at law firm Williams & Connolly, foreign policy adviser

Roger W. Cressey, former National Security Council counterterrorism staffer and now Good Harbor Consulting president and NBC News consultant, has advised Obama but says not exclusive

Ivo H. Daalder, National Security Council director for European affairs during President Clinton’s administration and now a Brookings senior fellow, foreign policy adviser

Richard Danzig, President Clinton’s Navy secretary and now a Center for Strategic and International Analysis fellow, national security adviser

Philip H. Gordon, President Clinton’s National Security Council staffer for Europe and now a Brookings senior fellow, national security adviser

Maj. Gen. J. (Jonathan) Scott Gration, a 32-year Air Force veteran and now CEO of Africa anti-poverty effort Millennium Villages, national security adviser and surrogate

Lawrence J. Korb, assistant secretary of defense from 1981-1985 and now a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, informal foreign policy adviser

W. Anthony Lake, President Clinton’s national security adviser and now a professor at Georgetown’s school of foreign service, foreign policy adviser

James M. Ludes, former defense and foreign policy adviser to Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., and now executive director of the American Security Project, national security adviser

Robert Malley, President Clinton’s Middle East envoy and now International Crisis Group’s Middle East and North Africa program director, national security adviser

Gen. Merrill A. ("Tony") McPeak, former Air Force chief of staff and now a business consultant, national security adviser

Denis McDonough, Center for American Progress senior fellow and former policy adviser to then-Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle, foreign policy coordinator

Samantha Power, Harvard-based human rights scholar and Pulitzer Prize winning writer, foreign policy adviser

Susan E. Rice, President Clinton’s Africa specialist at the State Department and National Security Council and now a Brookings senior fellow, foreign policy adviser

Bruce O. Riedel, former CIA officer and National Security Council staffer for Near East and Asian affairs and now a Brookings senior fellow, national security adviser

Dennis B. Ross, President Clinton’s Middle East negotiator and now a Washington Institute for Near East Policy fellow, Middle East adviser

Sarah Sewall, deputy assistant secretary of defense for peacekeeping and humanitarian assistance during President Clinton’s administration and now director of Harvard’s Carr Center for Human Rights Policy, national security adviser

Daniel B. Shapiro, National Security Council director for legislative affairs during President Clinton’s administration and now a lobbyist with Timmons & Company, Middle East adviser

Mona Sutphen, former aide to President Clinton’s National Security adviser Samuel R. Berger and to United Nations ambassador Bill Richardson and now managing director of business consultancy Stonebridge, national security adviser

[JM Hanes]

Elliott:

*Not to be confused with You-know-who.

Heavens forfend! He's clearly the New-You-know-who.

[Elliott]

At present, I'd say he's on course to be You-know-Houdini.

[kim]

Sebelius is also the source for the quote that Bush's war kept her National Guard from responding adequately to a tornado in Kansas. It was a lie, but Brownback, of all people, bailed her out of that one.
===================================

[M. Simon]

McCain on Mortgage Meltdown - Names Obama and cronies.

[M. Simon]

BTW Above is a video.

[duffer]

has anyone found the original interview with zebari?
obama is toast if it gets out.

[Gabriel Sutherland]

TPM Muckraker is all kinds of hilarity on this story. Check out this quote to close a report.

One Iraq scholar told TPMmuckraker after the false yellow-star report, referring to Taheri: "This is a person who doesn't have any credibility."

Amer Taheri has so little credibility "One Iraq scholar" can't even put his name to his own critique?

Dude, punch me. Is this real? These are real people writing this tripe.

[Jane]

This is getting no press but it is making my blood boil:

Obama-Biden Reservations Confirmed

STANDING BY THE STORY The Obama campaign spent more than five hours on Monday attempting to figure out the best refutation of the explosive New York Post report that quoted Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari as saying that Barack Obama during his July visit to Baghdad demanded that Iraq not negotiate with the Bush Administration on the withdrawal of American troops. Instead, he asked that they delay such negotiations until after the presidential handover at the end of January.

The three problems, according to campaign sources: The report was true, there were at least three other people in the room with Obama and Zebari to confirm the conversation, and there was concern that there were enough aggressive reporters based in Baghdad with the sources to confirm the conversation that to deny the comments would create a bigger problem.

Instead, Obama's national security spokeswoman Wendy Morigi told reporters that Obama told the Iraqis that they should not rush through what she termed a "Strategic Framework Agreement" governing the future of U.S. forces until after President Bush left office. In other words, the Iraqis should not negotiate an American troop withdrawal.

According to a Senate staffer working for Sen. Joseph Biden, Biden himself got involved in the shaping of the statement. "The whole reason he's on the ticket is the foreign policy insight," explained the staffer.

LUN

Obama should be removed from the Senate for this.

[skipkent]

Obama's attempt to in any way influence (let along 'cut a deal' with) foreign powers during a time of war is TREASON, pure and simple.

[Gabriel Sutherland]

Jane: This is the new defense for Barack Obama's position. Courtesy of those "independents" at Talking Points Memo.

In terms of a Status of Forces agreement, Obama has consistently made clear that he believes any such agreement should be delayed until after the election -- so that a President Obama or McCain would not be bound by an agreement negotiated by a weakened Bush administration. The McCain camp did not object when, in June, Obama told reporters at a press conference that he had made exactly this argument to Zebari in a phone call.

Watch for reporters to start asking these questions of McCain. If they were not asked yesterday, they will probably be asked today. The bailout of Democratic supporting investment banks like Lehman Brothers and the insurers that back their shitty investments that also back the Democratic party at AIG are getting all the media attention right now.

Just for review, that's Democratic fundraising powerhouses Fannie Mae, Lehman Brothers, and AIG all going either belly up or getting Uncle Sam to bail them out.

Anyone want to tabulate the amount of funds the employees of these firms have shoveled to Democrats? But seriously, this is all Phill Gramm and the Republicans fault. It can't possibly be the Democrats that run these companies.

[clarice]

Jane, Move America Forward already has a video out on the Obama tap dance which I posted on another thread.

Maybe Americans aren't as stupid as Dems think--esp those who shop at Wal Mart

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday is unchanged with John McCain attracting 48% of the vote while Barack Obama earns 47% (see recent daily results). Both men are viewed favorably by 55% of the nation’s voters (see trends). Results are released every day at 9:30 a.m. Eastern and a FREE daily e-mail update is available.

McCain leads 58% to 38% among those who regularly shop at Wal-Mart while Obama leads 61% to 36% among those who don’t frequent the retail giant. Overall, Obama leads among those who earn less than $40,000 a year while McCain leads among those with higher earnings. Among white voters, Obama has the edge only among those who earn less than $20,000 a year and his advantage among those lower income white voters is just four percentage points (see crosstabs).

Investor confidence has stabilized—at least for the moment--after falling sharply for several days. The economic confidence of those who do not invest was not shaken by the Wall Street events of recent days. As for the political implications, polling conducted last night shows that 49% trust McCain more than Obama on economic issues while 45% trust Obama.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

These are real people writing this tripe.

Convince me.

[clarice]

P.S.,PUK, pay anything for S.C.A.M.'s right to the list of those who trust Obama more on the economy.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Maybe Americans aren't as stupid as Dems think....

Given that most of us manage to dress ourselves every morning, we pretty well couldn't be.

[clarice]

Speak for yourself, I'm still in my jammies.

[Jane]

Clarice,

As I said in the other thread, I can't think of anything that has made me angrier in this election cycle. What a narcissistic bastard. This man would not more put his country first than he would admit a mistake. He should be shoved in the dustbin of mistakes that liberals make.

[Elliott]

McCain releases ad saying, "My opponent’s only solutions are talk and taxes." Obama plans to air a two minute monologue.

[Elliott]

He should be shoved in the dustbin of mistakes that liberals make.

A linen closet would be more poetic.

[clarice]

I'm already making room for him on the wall of Dem greats--Dukakis, McGovern, Carter...

[GW]

Correct me if I am wrong, but we are operating in Iraq under wartime authorization. My understanding of SFA's is that they are necessary for long-term troop committments once hostilities are ended. Even the drawdown of forces envisioned through 2012 won't invoke the necessity of an SFA unless and until hostilities in Iraq are declared at an end.

[kim]

I'm glad for the correction, Clarice, I'd been quoting 62-24 as the preference of WalMart shoppers for McCain/Palin. Interesting how their is a class difference in the voters represented counteractively by the WalMart sample. One might imagine they are lower income, than the non-Walmart shoppers. Kind of amusing, the passions that arise around Ol' Sam's Marche. You know he started with a grant from his father-in-law.
================================

[JM Hanes]

Charlie/Clarice:
"Given that most of us manage to dress ourselves every morning, we pretty well couldn't be."
Does putting my jammies on in the morning count?

Elliott:
"A linen closet would be more poetic." LOL!