Happy Labor Day

Let's go ahead and belabor something.

PALIN SIDEBAR:  Interesting antidotes to the notion that Palin was a bolt from the blue - here are the SF Chronicle and the Wonkette from March '08 speculating on her VP prospects.  The Wonkete is eerily non-prescient:

McCain Won’t Get Sarah Palin For Veep, Either — She’s Pregnant!

Beloved Alaskan Governor and hot maverick Sarah Palin is seven months pregnant with her fifth kid! She just announced the happy news, and now John McCain’s latest hope for a popular female maverick Republican governor on the GOP ticket is gone forever. People will really do just about anything to avoid being John McCain’s lady vice presidential candidate who will lose with him in November.

Comments

[Danube of Thought]

I've got two concerns about Palin at this point: her description of her actions with respect to the Bridge to Nowhere was misleading; and she thinks (allegedly) that creationism should be taught in the schools. I suspect we'll be hearing more on both of these subjects in due course.

How come every other time I hit "post" I get taken to a page that says something like "Perhaps you misspelled Typepad," and the post disappears?

[w3bgrrl]

"Children are the most precious and promising ingredient in this mixed-up world you live in down there on Earth. Trig is no different, except he has one extra chromosome," --Governor Palin, writing to her family about her new son.

“Look, I got two daughters — 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby." -- Senator Obama, speaking without a teleprompter.

[GMax]

DOT

One off the cuff comment on why not teach both is weak tea for claiming that she is strong for creationism. Since evolution is still a theory, there must be other possibilities right?

[kim]

Tom, I think Palin has said that children should be allowed to discuss creationism in school rather than saying it should be taught. Granted that is a fine distinction.

I happen to believe it should be discussed, even taught, as a philosophical point in the theory of science. I've yet to find a good argument against that position.
===================

[Jane]

Palin just announced that her 17 year old daughter is pregnant and will marry the father.

I bet she didn't know that on Friday.

[Porchlight]

and she thinks (allegedly) that creationism should be taught in the schools.

My understanding is that she doesn't believe it should be part of the curriculum, but if it comes up in classroom and students want to debate different theories, that is perfectly appropriate. I agree.

[Danube of Thought]

I agree with Porchlight, if in fact that is her position.

[MayBee]

I bet she didn't know that on Friday.

I can read that two ways. Palin didn't know her daughter was pregnant on Friday, or on Friday, Bristol didn't know she was getting married.

[GMax]

Yes the press release Jane says the McCain camp knew it and decided that was no reason to disqualify Palin. I agree. A teen pregnancy is a high probability of a tough life ahead with much higher levels of poverty than the none pregnant teen. However she has a loving family and intends to marry the father. I am sure she would rather this not been national news. Thank the lefties for bringing a 17 year old into the spotlight.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

She knew it and so did McCain. Carly Fiorina just said that Palin told McCain, before the pick, and his attitude was that it is private family matter and should remain a private family matter.

[Danube of Thought]

From Gerard Baker:

"Former state Rep. Ethan Berkowitz - a Democrat - said. 'Gov. Palin has made her name fighting corruption within her own party, and I was honored when she stepped across party lines and asked me to co-author her ethics white paper.'"

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

However, I doubt anyone in the McCain camp could have possibly anticipated the garbage that has been posted regarding Trig. Who but the sickest minds among us would anticipate such a vicious smear?

[MayBee]

I was just talking to my Dem husband, and we both think it's a net neutral.

They didn't abort the baby, which is what the hypocrisy charge is always against the Christian Right. So if someone wants to make hay of it, they have to talk about the sex life of a teenager.

[Elliott]

Via the Page, Politico gets reactions to Palin's selection, including one from Norm Ornstein, who begins thus:

I am troubled by it, not the least because of the way it was done — last minute, impulsive, with the presidential candidate barely knowing his choice and without an extensive vetting done well in advance. The ethical issue is also troublesome, just from what we know on the record.

Ornstein goes on to lay out his reasoned concerns on the ethical issue. However, what evidence supports the claim that there was not "an extensive vetting done well in advance?" Likewise, evidence for "impulsive?"

Everyone seems to be asking the vetting questions though. TPM's piece (via Althouse) on Palin and the Public Safety Commisioner had this:

(In an interesting sidelight, that may end up telling us a lot, Monegan says no one from the McCain campaign ever contacted him in the vetting process.)

Halperin also starts out wondering about vetting:

1. Did her vetting include a tough face-to-face interview between Palin and McCain’s chief vetter A.B. Culvahouse?

2. Did her vetting include the full questionnaire filled out by others?

3. Did the vetting include researchers on the ground in Alaska?

[Jane]

I think it is a net neutral too. It will be interesting to see the the candidate's children remain off limits.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Years ago, we had a Navy friend who was posted to Alaska. I remember him telling us when he came back to the lower 48 that the dark winters were the worst. All he did was work, drink, and have sex.

[anduril]

Hard as it is for parents to understand or come to terms with, they're not responsible for everything their kids do. But it's hard as a parent to know whether they can absolve themselves, to honestly answer the question: did I somehow fail? Especially at such a young age. You can't shut your life down, but I doubt I'd be able to pursue major public office in such a situation.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

1. Did her vetting include a tough face-to-face interview between Palin and McCain’s chief vetter A.B. Culvahouse?

2. Did her vetting include the full questionnaire filled out by others?

Yes, according to WaPo article.

Yes, according to WaPo article, including a thorough FBI background check. I happen to know that the paperwork for that is mindboggling.

I don't know about #3.

[Rick Ballard]

"Palin didn't know her daughter was pregnant on Friday, or on Friday, Bristol didn't know she was getting married."

Her fiance may have looked at those hunting photos and decided to turn discussion into prompt action. Joking aside, I'm not going to say anything but "best wishes" about two people who have decided to jointly shoulder the responsibility for their actions rather than destroy a life. There have been plenty of shotgun marriages that have endured for a lifetime.

[Danube of Thought]

I wasn't paying a lot of attention during birds-and-bees time, but I always assumed that Bristol would be unable to do what the Kos people are saying she did, namely give birth to one baby while pregnant with another. Can someone from the distaff side help me out on this one?

[anduril]

My father was a psychologist in a lower 48 state and he said that rural areas were a nightmare in winter. Few people have the personal resources to cope well with the isolation.

My personal view is that I'd be concerned that my child would feel that I was so wrapped up in my ambitions that I had distanced myself from her. None of that is necessarily rational, but I couldn't forgive myself if that were the result.

[clarice]

Happy Labor Day--tell us when the real TM is back from his unexpected vacation.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

All he did was work, drink, and have sex.

Sounds like my life.

Except I don't drink.

And I don't have sex.

And I'm unemployed.

[MarkO]

This is what happens when you put a real person on a national ticket. Real life is not like the constructed fable of the One. The brown-shirted lefties will now display all of the venom they really feel for ordinary, real women.

We've made very little progress in the past 30 years.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Seriously, AK is a frontier still. Marriage tends to happen young and in the unconventional order.

[anduril]

clarice, I guess I see his point--that it's possible that the State is blaming the consultants for what MAY have been irresponsibility on the part of the State--and that Palin should have exposed that irresponsibility. None of us know the answer to that one right now.

OTOH, my initial reaction was: this is what comes of reading David Brooks and Andrew Sullivan.

[kim]

Hey, classically, queens married at 15.
=======================

[Danube of Thought]

Received the following via e-mail, so I can't link to it. It's good (I've edited it down for brevity; sorry for the length):

"London Sunday Times assessment of the War in Iraq

"The Investor's Business Daily editorial board ask, 'What would happen if the U.S. won a war but the media didn't tell the American public?

"'Apparently, we have to rely on a British newspaper for the news that we've defeated the last remnants of al-Qaida in Iraq.'

"London's Sunday Times called it 'the culmination of one of the most spectacular victories of the war on terror.' A terrorist force that once numbered more than 12,000, with strongholds in the west and central regions of Iraq, has over two years been reduced to a mere 1,200 fighters, backed against the wall in the northern city of Mosul.

"The destruction of al-Qaida in Iraq (AQI) is one of the most unlikely and unforeseen events in the long history of American warfare. We can thank President Bush's surge strategy, in which he bucked both Republican and Democratic leaders in Washington by increasing our forces there instead of surrendering."

* * * *

"But where are the headlines and the front-page stories about all this good news? As the Media Research Center pointed out last week, 'the CBS Evening News, NBC Nightly News and CNN's Anderson Cooper 360 were silent Tuesday night about the benchmarks' that signaled political progress.

"The war in Iraq has been turned around 180 degrees both militarily and politically because the president stuck to his guns. Yet apart from IBD, Fox News Channel and parts of the foreign press, the media don't seem to consider this historic event a big story."

[Danube of Thought]

My mother married my father when she was seventeen, and loved him for the next 57 years until she died.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

You can't shut your life down, but I doubt I'd be able to pursue major public office in such a situation.

Anduril, what is your problem? Are you seriously suggesting that 17 year old girls don't have sex if their parents aren't neglecting them? Or that a daughter getting married, even precipitously, is a reason not to accept a nomination as VP?

I'm sorry, I don't normally draw the "sexism" card, but I'm really starting to think that, however unanalyzed it might be, underlying this all is a suspicion that chicks shouldn't be doing these kinds of Big Important Things.

[clarice]

I doubt either of the named firms would have undertaken this tedious and expensive litigation had they not some notion of a likelihood of success.This does not sound like a charitable enterprise on their part.

[anduril]

That's exactly my view: girls of 17 shouldn't be doing these kinds of big, important things. Nor should boys of 17 or thereabouts. And I suspect Gov. Palin agrees with me.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

I'm watching W at a briefing on the hurricane. Boy oh boy does he ever look tired. I don't think I've ever seen such deep circles under his eyes before like they are now. There is no question that the presidency ages the occupant in a big way.

[MayBee]

When George W Bush was running for office, Jenna was rushed to the hospital and Bush had something he had to attend in Florida. The rumors were that Jenna had an abortion and the campaign covered it up by calling it an appendectomy.

There are also rumors on the left that Laura Bush had an abortion as a teenager.
It is really interesting to see an actual teenage pregnancy that wasn't terminated, to see how this will be handled by the same rumor-mongers.

[anduril]

clarice, that was Danube's view, and I tend to agree with it. The State does seem to be making some fairly specific allegations--at least to my non expert (in pension funds) mind. Which is why my initial reaction was to blame TM's post on the effects of too much Brooks/Sullivan.

[MayBee]

So...do we think someone had whispered something to the netroots about Bristol being pregnant, but they just got the rumor wrong?

[anduril]

I'm sure I heard about this, rumors, earlier this week. Can't place it now.

[bio mom]

Yes, there is great sexism rampant in this country, much more so than racism. On both sides. Politically, if it seems that Palin is getting hit on this theme as we have been discussing, the women of this country won't like it. Many will vote for Palin just for that reason, many more than would feel like anduril.

[Shecky]

From above - "How come every other time I hit "post" I get taken to a page that says something like "Perhaps you misspelled Typepad," and the post disappears?"

I don't know, did you misspell Typepad?

[anduril]

I don't expect women to feel like me. I don't feel like a woman.

[Dick Van Patten]

Let's see we have Sarah, her husband, their five kids and one on the way.

You know what I say....yep...here it comes...Eight is Enough.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

That's exactly my view: girls of 17 shouldn't be doing these kinds of big, important things. Nor should boys of 17 or thereabouts. And I suspect Gov. Palin agrees with me.

Life must be a continual disappointment to you.

[Enlightened]

My Husbands Mom got pregnant with him at the age of 17, he is now 51 and she is still married to his dad. This is so not a big deal.

As for the crap the left is drumming up about little Trig, I yold you Friday how disgusting I thought this tack is. It has become even worse. Was it Alan Colmes that actually questioned whether Palin took proper pre-natal care, and thus produced a Down's child? I will no longer watch Hannity/Colmes because Alan Colmes is a disgusting pig.

The left had better drop this one because very soon women with disabled children are going to get wind of this and this will blow up in their faces.

And where are the Shrivers in all this? They were quick to boycott a movie that says "retarded" but won't jump in when a women's disabled child is being used as a political football? Hypocrites.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I don't feel like a woman.

I do. Just don't have any.

[larwyn]

TWO THREADS!! Oh Dear, like the Libby days, chasing you guys, trying to keep up..sigh...
(sorry, fingers/eyes not working well enough to attempt the coding to give live links, bold etc)

DOUG ROSS has CAC SCREENCAPS UP from your work:
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2008/09/william-ayers-guy-who-lives-in-my.html

Ayers, Obama and the CAC Records: Not Just "A guy who lives in my neighborhood"

GO READ IT ALL!!

***ISRAELIS KNEW THIS WOULD BE THE CASE***

FROM HEWITT:
http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/blog/g/473a631b-65a8-46ac-af27-777756404200

Biden Announces The Appeasement Platform Of The Democrats
Posted by: Hugh Hewitt at 8:31 AM
From Haaretz, Israel's leading newspaper comes word that Slow Joe Biden has previewed the Obama foreign policy to a stunned Israeli military:

Democratic vice-presidential candidate Joe Biden was quoted Monday as telling senior Israeli officials behind closed doors that the Jewish state will have to reconcile itself to a nuclear Iran.

In the unsourced report, Army Radio also quoted Biden as saying that he opposed "opening a additional military and diplomatic front."

Biden, chairman of the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee, has long been considered strongly pro-Israel. His nomination as Barack Obama's running mate had been expected to shore up the Democrats' strength with U.S. Jewish voters.

Army Radio said Israeli officials expressed "amazement" over the remarks attributed to him.

"Israel will have to reconcile itself with the nuclearization of Iran," Army Radio quoted Biden as telling the unnamed officials.

"It's doubtful if the economic sanctions will be effective, and I am against opening an additional military and diplomatic front."

It is a good thing that Slow Joe Biden has enough experience to throw in the towel over a nuclear Iran.

American supporters of Israel have to understand that Obama-Biden is a disaster for Israel's security. It would be Carter II, but without the keen insight that Carter brought to Iran policy.

[anduril]

Not as disappointing as it must be for you:

Sounds like my life.

Except I don't drink.

And I don't have sex.

And I'm unemployed.

[RichatUF]

DoT-

Here is the "creationism" bit. She made it clear that if the topic came up in a classroom it should be discussed, but that it shouldn't be part of the curriculum.

We can thank Feyerabend and the eco-cultists for allowing this pseudoscience an airing.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Since I'm an only child, I can't speak to large families other than my husband came from a family of 6 kids. 2 of his sisters had quickie marriages right after h.s. graduation because of pregnancy at ages 17 and 18. Both are still married to the fathers after 40+ years and 7 children between them and they made successful lives. My mother-in-law used to say that her 3 daughters all did well, her eldest son (my husband) did well, but the 2 younger boys were screw ups (mostly drugs and alcohol). Her attitude was 4 out of 6 ain't bad.

[anduril]

larwyn, I posted that on the other thread.

[PeterUK]

"Hey, classically, queens married at 15."

Except one. i blame Bush.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Well, Anduril, at least I still remember being 17.

[Semanticleo]

You know, I think all this crap about Troopergate and the lawsuit, and her "daughter's pregnancy, should be stopped.

Cease, desist......unless there is a broader question that makes it germane......

from 2006

The candidates were pressed on their stances on abortion and were even asked what they would do if their own daughters were raped and became pregnant."

Palin said she would support abortion only if the mother's life was in danger. When it came to her daughter, she said, "I would choose life.""
http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/2006/governor/story/8372383p-8266781c.html

Anchorage Daily News 11/3/2006

What if her daughter had been raped? (statutorily, she was)

If McCain wins, what will be the make-up of the El Superemos?

[anduril]

Aren't you?

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

I don't recall any great uproar over the news that old man Kennedy ordered his daughter be given a lobotomy and then locked away in an institution. Sheesh!

[Enlightened]

And I like the comparison above of Obama's remarks as to not letting his girls get "punished" if they became pregnant.

So Bristol is being "punished". Let's see how that unfolds. Abortion lovers are going to have a hard time convincing the general public that Bristol should have killed the baby she is carrying. I'd like to see the left pitch that. Many women may believe in Pro Choice, but that does not mean they advocate Abortion as a means of birth control.

Governor Palin does not look like the type that is going to give two shits about what people say about her personal life.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Here is the "creationism" bit. She made it clear that if the topic came up in a classroom it should be discussed, but that it shouldn't be part of the curriculum.

I haven't followed the arguments, but this seems a perfectly reasonable position to me.

[NotSean]

I have to say this speaks to Ms. Palin's impeccable judgment as a parent. As a major social conservative in the public eye, she finds out her 17 year old child is pregnant out of wedlock...and she chooses to campaign for the vice presidency? Knowing this will expose the child to public humiliation on a grand scale? And I understand she and her fine husband did not confer with the children before accepting McCain's invitation. It's not as if the feelings of the 5 months pregnant unwed teenage should possibly be considered.

Ugh. Republican "family values" make me ill.

[Pagar]

"Via the Page, Politico gets reactions to Palin's selection, including one from Norm Ornstein, who begins thus:

I am troubled by it, not the least because of the way it was done — last minute, impulsive, with the presidential candidate barely knowing his choice and without an extensive vetting done well in advance. The ethical issue is also troublesome, just from what we know on the record."

What in the world are we talking about the vetting process for. Obama wouldn't pass any serious vetting process for president of the local PTA. No one in the MSM is going to point out that Obama has been vetted, but by the Ayers group, they were so impressed with his qualifications that his campaign was launched from their home. The Democrat candidate for the position of President of the US was vetted by a terrorist and people think that McCain made an impulsive choice. This is insanity. Is there anyone in America who believes Obama could pass an FBI security check? No mention of vetting should be allowed until the American public is told who vetted Obama.

[RichatUF]

Sara-

I haven't followed the arguments, but this seems a perfectly reasonable position to me.

Jindal got caught up in something similiar.

[NotSean]

Obama is a United States Senator. He has passed an FBI security check. He has been vetted by millions upon millions of Americans, for twenty months. He has explained all his policy positions in excrutiating detail on every single important matter that faces our nation and has debated them publicaly, tirelessly, over the course of 23 televised debates. He has met publicly with world leaders who spoke of him with admiratiion and respect. He is a man of intellectual achievement and authority. He is a fine American who has lived a life of impeccable morality.

To compare him to this silly woman McCain has gambled your party's hopes on is an insult.

[Enlightened]

Palin's daughter was not forcibly raped.

She may be underage, it may be "statutory" legally, but she consented.

Pathetic try loser. You idiots are losing the use of a disable child to destroy it's mother, and you are going to lose the use of a pregnant teenager to destroy her mother.

At least you can rest comfortably knowing The Messiahs daughters are being educated that killing the child is an option in case they consent to statutory rape and become pregnant.

Go play with Alan Colmes - you zeros should get along very well.

[larwyn]

BIDEN & ISRAEL
Barry Rubin emailed:
The real problem is if a nuclear Iran would reconcile itself to Israel's existence :)

And also let me urge the following talking points on you when you write/talk about a nuclear Iran. Even if people don't care whether Israel is wiped off the map they should consider these points:

1. A nuclear Iran will make it impossible for the West to protect its interests in the Middle East. All countries would be too intimidated to act in any way contrary to Iran's desires.
2. A nuclear Iran would intimidate all Arab regimes to appease Iran including, for example, rejecting Western basing rights or alliances.
3. A nuclear Iran would lead to a huge upsurge in radical Islamist movements and their recruiting. With hundreds of thousands of Muslims joining such groups, the existence of every Arab regime would be jeopardized; terrorism and regional instability would rise.
4. The price of oil, given understandable fears of regional stability, would go far higher than it is now and stay there for years.

Senator Biden--are you reconciled to all that happening?

Me: Great fodder for the VP DEBATE!

[Bill in AZ]

millions upon millions - wow

[PeterUK]

"Ugh. Republican "family values" make me ill."

No ObSean,you were ill way before politics impinged on your twisted little mind.

[Enlightened]

Ugh. Republican "family values" make me ill.

Democratic family values are so preferable. Teenager has underage sex without protection, gets pregnant, Mom and Dad pay for the termination of a human life.

Ugh - Murderers make me ill.

[NotSean]

A mother who would put her vulnerable teenager in this position - knowing she was pregnant - is simply put, not a good person. Forget what kind of bad parent it makes her. It just shows the kind of ambition that blows minds. It's hard enough to be a pregnant teenager without having your crusading abstinence-only mom running for Vice President - when she doesn't even know what a Vice President does!

Honest question - how many of you are starting to think McCain has lost his mind?

[mockmook]

"If McCain wins, what will be the make-up of the El Superemos?"

I don't know. But he's promised to make it more "conservative," i.e., originalist.

That's a good thing right?

[bad]

DrJ, Rick

You ROCK!!! Guess where Doug Ross got his info for the Obama/Ayers/CAC story Larwyn brought to us?

I hope your site can handle the links DrJ!!

LUN

[boris]

Palin's daughter ...

Age of consent in AK = 16

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

And I understand she and her fine husband did not confer with the children before accepting McCain's invitation.

Oh, well, I understand you're an idiot.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

What if her daughter had been raped? (statutorily, she was)

Oh, jeez, you're not even really trying, are you?

Okay, check your facts. Age of consent in AK is 16. Since she's 17 and five months pregnant, it's impossible that it's the result of statutory rape.

[Bill in AZ]

Honest question - how many of you are starting to think McCain has lost his mind?

Millions upon millions of us think John McCain made a great choice in Sarah Palin for Vice President of the United States.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

To compare him to this silly woman McCain has gambled your party's hopes on is an insult.

Agreed, but Sarah seems a forgiving sort.

[Enlightened]

Hey asshole - Obama said his daughters might make a mistake and need an abortion. Is that good parenting? Knowing your kids might get pregnant out of wedlock?

The difference would be Democratic Family values of a secret abortion killing a humanlife.

As opposed to a teenager that should suffer the consequences of their actions and deal with their situation - in public or privare.

I suppose you think a pregnant 17 year old TV star of a family values show and sister of a huge Pop Star has been humiliated by her parents, by the public? She has shown what Bristol can expect being in the public eye.

You are so pathetic. You are not even worthy of a response but is it rather fun to whack the troll on this fine Labor Day.

[PeterUK]

"He has explained all his policy positions in excrutiating detail on every single important matter that faces our nation "

The details were that painful eh? Like your English?

[Porchlight]

A mother who would put her vulnerable teenager in this position - knowing she was pregnant - is simply put, not a good person.

You mean, put in the position to be slandered by people like you? To see rumors spread that her brother is actually her son, and her mother faked a pregnancy on her behalf?

Your statement is the equivalent of saying "anyone who brings their daughter to the public square for me to happily throw rocks at, is not a good person."

You are slime.

[Danube of Thought]

"I don't know, did you misspell Typepad?"

I didn't spell it at all--I just hit "Post." Hence my question.

[MikeS]

Is the new baby going to get a cool name too?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Honest question - how many of you are starting to think McCain has lost his mind?

Not many of us. Joe Trippi seems to agree with us, as well.

I love to see flop sweat.

[Ranger]

He [Obama] has passed an FBI security check.

Posted by: NotSean | September 01, 2008 at 01:26 PM

Really? When was that? Because the general concensus from secutiry experts that I have heard is that Obama couldn't get a security clearance under normal circumstances because of his admitted drug use and associations. Do you have any evidence that Obama has actually had an FBI background check?

My underdtanding is that members of congress get security clearances simply due to their office, they are not required to submit to FBI screening. One clear example is one of the key Democrats on the House intel committee, who was impeached as a federal judge for accepting bribes. There is no way he would ever be granted a clearance, yet he sits on the intel committee and has full access to the most classified information simply because of his seat in congress and the Democratic house leaderships' decision to put him on the committee.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

He has explained all his policy positions in excruciating detail on every single important matter that faces our nation.

Well, no, he hasn't. He's explained in excruciating detail that he has positions. What the positions are seems less clear. Especially since they seem to be so audience-dependent.

(By the way, only one "t" in "excruciating". Root is latin "crucis", "cross".)

[Enlightened]

Loser Sean - You did not answer the question -

Did Obama state that in case his girls get pregnant out of wedlock, he would prefer they get an abortion as opposed to being "punished" with a child?

Is that the Democratic Family values you are promoting in your candidate? It is OK to have sex before marriage, and get pregnant, as long as you abort, and try and keep it secret?

[M. Simon]

DOT,

She does not believe Creationism should be taught. She believes that it is OK to discuss it if the question comes up.

Xcuse if this point has already been covered.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Obama is a United States Senator. He has passed an FBI security check. He has been vetted by millions upon millions of Americans, for twenty months. He has explained all his policy positions in excrutiating detail on every single important matter that faces our nation and has debated them publicaly, tirelessly, over the course of 23 televised debates. He has met publicly with world leaders who spoke of him with admiratiion and respect. He is a man of intellectual achievement and authority. He is a fine American who has lived a life of impeccable morality.

Okay, now that I'm done throwing up. Impeccable morality? Hangs out with murderers and terrorists. Hangs out with a preacher who humps in the pulpit. Thinks a pregnancy is a punishment. Hangs out with a fraud and felon. Has such a huge gap in his resume that they skipped over the years between high school up to him meeting Michelle as if they don't exist. Was a cokehead and pothead.

Just to name a few.

intellectual achievement

Care to give us some proof. He is completely inarticulate without a teleprompter of a speech someone else wrote for him.

He has explained all his policy positions in excrutiating detail on every single important matter that faces our nation

And for the next three days his staff frantically runs around trying to clarify what "he really meant to say." By the time they are through, his policy positions have flopped back and forth like a fish out of water.

[PeterUK]

"A mother who would put her vulnerable teenager in this position - knowing she was pregnant - is simply put, not a good person."

This speaks volumes about the ant-human weirdo who make an issue of it.
Even your parents had sex ObSean,sorry to bring that up,it must be a sensitive point for you.Better than being left to die, an infant,alone,in a cupboard,the Obama way, though wasn't it?

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

*** between high school up to him meeting Michelle as if they don't exist ***

Should read:

between high school up to him meeting Michelle in the convention film bio as if they don't exist

[anduril]

Good, Ranger. Their clearances can be withdrawn for cause shown, but I don't know of that ever happening. The constitution, interestingly, doesn't say anything about security clearances when it says who can hold the various offices. Maybe because the whole concept (let alone the organization to administer clearances) hadn't come into existence at that time.

[Danube of Thought]

"He has explained all his policy positions in excrutiating [sic] detail on every single important matter that faces our nation and has debated them publicaly, tirelessly..."

Really? What's his position on retroactive immunity for telecom companies? What's his position on an immediate withdrawal from Iraq, with all troops to be out be last March? What's his position on talking to Ahmajinedad without preconditions? What's his position on the D.C. gun ban? What's his position on when life begins? What's his position on offshore drilling? What's his position on accepting public financing for his campaign?

And concerning all of the above, what was his position six months ago?

[DrJ]

I hope your site can handle the links DrJ!!

The site should; it is hosted by an a very good company. This may be a good test for that, might it not?

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Oh yeah, forgot, he also has no problem with infanticide.

[NotSean]

Hey asshole - Obama said his daughters might make a mistake and need an abortion. Is that good parenting? Knowing your kids might get pregnant out of wedlock?

It's weird that this still needs to be explained in the year 2008...but psssst. They invented something about 100 years ago known as birth control. And we teach our children about it so they don't become pregnant. And guess what? Most of them don't. Now if a kid did get pregnant, that would be really tough for her and for the boy and for the families involved. They might need some time and some parenting and some encouragement. But hey! I guess it's just as good for your mom to become a national spectacle and turn you into a late night punch liine!

This isn't about me, guys. This only makes McCain's debacle that much worse. This is an Eagleton in the making. A train wreck in slo mo.

I do feel very bad for the poor kid. Too bad her mother didn't care about her enough than to spare her what's going to happen now.

[Howcome]

Please let the Dems make this an issue. Jeremiah "God Damn America" Wright here we come.

[Enlightened]

Wow - I guess Democratic Family Values are a touchy subject for zeros that have none.

[GMax]

No fair DOT, you are messing with the fine allegory he has going on in his head. Why bringing up specifics is going to harsh on his buzz!

I would suggest ignoring knothead, its olestra there is no substance there its fake.

[MayBee]

A mother who would put her vulnerable teenager in this position - knowing she was pregnant - is simply put, not a good person.

You had a perfect response, Porchlight.
This seems to be the criticism going around the left, but it is hysterical to me. As if anybody had any intention of being good to Bristol Palin before this came out.
They were already smearing her!

[bio mom]

If the leftys keep this up the women are going to vote for McCain in droves.

[anduril]

Maybee, irrespective of the left's motives, it is a legitimate consideration. As I suggested upthread.

[Danube of Thought]

"I do feel very bad for the poor kid."

Of course you do, scumbag.

[Enlightened]

Hey Zero - you did not answer the question - you obfuscated which is apparently a common tic among the commoners of the left.

Obama advocates ABORTION as a method of BIRTH CONTROL. That is, he believes the murder of a human life is preferable to his daughters being punished for NOT USING BIRTH CONTROL.

Nice Democratic Family Values.

So, in case one of his daughters doesn't use her birth control, and has an abortion - I do hope you all come back and advocate for her privacy.

[MikeS]

If the new baby is a girl, I like Halo for a name.