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September 20, 2008

Comments

Emile Zola

"Hey, Leo, that's a machine you are trying to talk to."

Glad you weren't here to get suckered on my 'rope a dope'.

Emile Zola

"Every single one of you here disagreed with me and mocked my warnings of impending doom."

Sam;

They're just being 'resolute'.

Charlie (Colorado)

You mean there are people who personally gained from forcing banks to loan money to borrowers who weren't credit worthy? Please tell us who they were.

Golly, I'm beginning to feel like the straight man in this.

Why, Ex, it would be the people who pushed those loans. Barnie Frank (the Congressman, not ours). The top five on the list of people who got money from the FNFN: Dodd, Kerry, Clinton, Obama. Frank Raines, Jim Johnson, and Jamie Gorelick. Big contributors from the companies who pushed the MSEs.

centralcal

Extraneus:

"Can we agree on that at least?"

Well, I agree. They SHOULD be strung up for all to see. But, they won't be.

Charlie (Colorado)

I propose any guilty of using public office for personal gain spend hard time in an actual prison. Follow up with parolees being required to live in Section 8 housing and using ONLY public transportation to and from their minimum wage jobs for the remainder of their time.

Well, considering the way that Obama financed his house, paid for his campaign, and the amount of money he received from the FNs, that's going to simplify the election considerably.

Emile Zola

"The top five on the list of people who got money from the FNFN: Dodd, Kerry, Clinton, Obama. Frank Raines, Jim Johnson, and Jamie Gorelick"

Free Marketers........

M. Simon

More Penny Pritzker.

One article referenced you may have already seen. :-)

The other by Uppity Woman is probably new.

Extraneus

The top five on the list of people who got money from the FNFN: Dodd, Kerry, Clinton, Obama. Frank Raines, Jim Johnson, and Jamie Gorelick.

Well, damn! All Democrats? That's not fair.

Emile Zola

"Well, damn! All Democrats? That's not fair."

I know how you feel. Four of the Keating Five were Dems, but they are no longer in politics.

McCain is the 5th.

kim

Heh, I was pretty sure it was you after the 'late for dinner' remark.
=========================================

M. Simon

I made a post here about two years ago in which I chided you for the perilous economic policies of BushCo and in particular how a major financial storm was brewing as a result of a housing ponzi scheme.

The ponzi scheme I missed. I was fighting the climate wars.

However, I believe Bush and McCain were fighting the ponzi scheme to the best of their ability.

bgates

Democrats racists? Who knew?
Simon - to be specific, it's the white Democratic racists who are Obama's problem. Black Democratic racists are his base.

M. Simon

MCCain was exonerated in the Keating affair. The Democrats were not. McCain was added for window dressing to make it seem that all the crooks were not Democrats.

Only one problem: All the crooks were Democrats.

bad

Extraneous

Every time a home loan closes there are fees too numerous to count for everything imaginable. Everybody gets a slice of that pie: realtors, attorneys, title companies, mortgage companies, government entities, etc...

kim

Emile, McCain and Glenn were tarred inaccurately. But keep trying to tag McCain with it; it was a Democratic scandal. Let's keep Keating in the public's eye. 'Cuz this one's the Dem's, too.
===================================

Charlie (Colorado)

I made a post here about two years ago in which I chided you for the perilous economic policies of BushCo and in particular how a major financial storm was brewing as a result of a housing ponzi scheme.

And as I recall, we pointed out to you then that the housing policy was one that had been inherited from Clinton. We probably even pointed out to you the things that are in the Courant article now.

bad

LOL bgates!! Tru dat.

ljacker

Ya, but is it the same as Clinton's the feed the world no one should be poor promise we had to pay on because of Congressmen like Obama and his tax America GDP like the live 8 G8 double terror tax Britain thing?

Charlie (Colorado)

Well, damn! All Democrats? That's not fair.

hey, to be serious for a moment, can anyone name a Republican who ended up with a major position in Fannie/Freddie or the like?

I'd be willing to bet there would have been, because the FNFN folks would know to hedge the elections, but I can't think of one.

Jim Rhoads aka Vnjagvet

Yeah, but McCain was pretty much cleared back then. PBS (not noted as Pro-Republican) says:

The Senate Ethics Committee concluded that Glenn and McCain's involvement in the scheme was minimal and dropped the charges against them. In August 1991, the committee ruled that the other three senators had acted improperly in interfering with the Federal Home Loan Banking Board's investigation.

M. Simon

ljacker,

Possibly.

ha

91,93,95 I don't think Plame was arrested in 95 like Ames.

PeterUK

"All the crooks were Democrats."

Are Democrats.

Mr Rogers Neighborhood

McCain's involvement with Keating is not as cut and dried as some here would have you believe.

from Slate in 2000

"McCain defended his attendance at the meetings by saying Keating was a constituent and that Keating's development company, American Continental Corporation, was a major Arizona employer. McCain said he wanted to know only whether Keating was being treated fairly and that he had not tried to influence the regulators. At the second meeting, McCain told the regulators, "I wouldn't want any special favors for them," and "I don't want any part of our conversation to be improper."

But Keating was more than a constituent to McCain--he was a longtime friend and associate. McCain met Keating in 1981 at a Navy League dinner in Arizona where McCain was the speaker. Keating was a former naval aviator himself, and the two men became friends. Keating raised money for McCain's two congressional campaigns in 1982 and 1984, and for McCain's 1986 Senate bid. By 1987, McCain campaigns had received $112,000 from Keating, his relatives, and his employees--the most received by any of the Keating Five. (Keating raised a total of $300,000 for the five senators.)

After McCain's election to the House in 1982, he and his family made at least nine trips at Keating's expense, three of which were to Keating's Bahamas retreat. McCain did not disclose the trips (as he was required to under House rules) until the scandal broke in 1989. At that point, he paid Keating $13,433 for the flights.

And in April 1986, one year before the meeting with the regulators, McCain's wife, Cindy, and her father invested $359,100 in a Keating strip mall."

Poindexter and Weinberger were pardoned by Bush and served no time. Does that make them innocent?

Pofarmer

WSJ on Friday said the worldwide value of credit default swaps was 58 trillion.

Just a note. That's more than the Gross World Product. How did the number get that big??? Me thinks there's some multiplication in there somewhere.

Pofarmer

Anything from Slate needs to be taken with about a 50 lb bag of salt.

bad

I read Slate for John Edwards gossip.

Not that there is anything wrong with that...

kim

Generally, yes, Pofarmer, but I often like Mickey Kaus.
=================================

kim

So, Mr. Rogers? Obama has much more unsavoury associates and acquaintances.
=====================================

Semanticleo

Kim;;I thought you knew who I was?

kim

Just trying to label the right response with the right sock puppet.
=========================================

Caro

Chaco, I am embarrassed to say that Bennett (R), senator from Utah, is way up there with over a hundred Gs.

nolo contendere

"If the banks were forced to loan the money to "sub prime" borrowers -- say by government regulations put in place by race hustlers, former street agitators or community organizers -- then the people who forced them should be strung up for all to see."

Agreed. Now what about the other 70-75% of the subprime loans that were issued without any governmental pressure?

FDhg

The arc of destruction Mr. Rogers?

nolo contendere

Pofarmer: "Just a note. That's more than the Gross World Product. How did the number get that big??? Me thinks there's some multiplication in there somewhere."

That's the notional value of CDSs. The notional value of all OTC derivatives was $596 trillion in Dec. 2007. The gross value was $15 trillion. The CDS shoe has started to drop (Bear and AIG), but that's only part of the big, tangled mess. There's more pain to come.

Pofarmer

Agreed. Now what about the other 70-75% of the subprime loans that were issued without any governmental pressure?

Talk to the mortgage brokers. Whoops, they're out of business. Who did they sell the notes too? Why did borrowers suddenly think they could have a house 10X their annual income?

One other thing.

The numbers I've seen bandied about is 700,000,000 over 2 years. That's around 1/8th of the Federal budget. Not an insignifigant sum. What 1/8th gets cut?

Pofarmer

There's more pain to come.

Well, I think we can agree on that.

Extraneus

I think it's more than likely that the Keating 5 thing is what led directly to the odious restrictions on free speech, the rise of the 527's, and all the rest of the benefits of Campaign Finance Reform. This was McCain's way of recovering his integrity, regardless of the cost to the nation. I guess it worked, but I never did understand why Bush signed it.

bad

When Mr. Bad and I bought our first house, 25 years ago, we followed the advice to keep the house payment, including taxes and insurance, no larger than one week's take home pay.

Worked out great.

Semanticleo

"Worked out great." said Barbie and Ken.......

perfect storm

Two year debt can be put out 5 years. This could be called a 'sustainable emergency budget.' We can take the US agency budgets and put them out five years too, like the programs that pass before the US government budget, making sure the five year debt gets paid every year before the US government budget, which falls on the fourth year; the presidential elections. This way we can make sure the writers of the five year debts get their president in the White House. Then Congress can direct Treasury to write off some of the five year debt yearly because it's a 'loan' that is really a 20 year debt based on four five year cycles that waives the debt every year from Mr Biden's letter, unless it is just foreign aid cash like the 'loan,' based on a five year 'emergency sustainable budget' that is approved every five years like the US government budget, but before; unless you want to cut something out of the US government budget that is based on the five year program debt budgets or 'loans' and can't because the budgets are basically the same. So, the five year emergency sustainable budget debts run the US government budget.

The Other Steve

Considering your track record, Tom... Calling someone else hyper-partisan probably means he's got it right.

John Onorato

So, just so I'm clear, you'd write a $700,000,000,000 check to ANYONE, for ANYTHING, without any conditions attached?

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

That's socialism I can believe in!

You've got to be kidding me. Seriously.

John O

And you don't find any irony in the idea that the bailout plan caused at least in part by perhaps a little too lax a regulatory and oversight environment requires Congress deregulate the bailout plan itself?

Wow.

narciso

For the last times; Ames tipped off the Soviets about Plame sometime before he was arrested in 1994; which is kind of odd, since she was working the counter terror beat in Athens; tracking those
un-reconstructed Trotskyite followers of Marighela, Nov 17. Whose downfall would only come after the further death of Capt.Nordeen, Tsoulas,& Steven Saunders; nearly a decade later This was due in part to Agee, because in his roleof 'laundering' the propaganda of East German researcher Mader, whose work after '81 was taken over by Geheim; he burned Richard Welch according to his memoirs, for no good reason. He not only gave his name, but his itinerary, his address in the tony Athens suburb of Psychico; along with his list of 'crimes' accrued in South America. The previously mentioned 'Ishmael Jones' memoir of his CIA experiences, "the Human Factor", utterly demolishes the Walter Mittyesque pretentions of Plame, the other Alaskan born soccer mom; craving victim status, like some real life Sydney Bristow manque.
By proxy that makes the Plamaniac defenders
(Johnson, Marcinkowski, Cannistraro,
eminentlymore foolish if that were possible.

We seem to have survived 'the feeder bands
of the Subprime Hurricane' for now; yet second guessers seem to abound. Krugman's total obliviousness as to the Fannie & Freddie role in this debacle, along with the dismissal of the oncoming economic
tsunami, really belong in the Larry Johnson 'terrorism is not a major problem, and W.R's Apples discourses on the Afghan quagmire before Kandahar fell, Goldman has given us Enron, and Ken Lay by proxy, Petrochina's rush to public issuance, Rubin's role in the Mexican peso
defaul; but also Josh Bolten and Henry Paulson. He's the closest thing to one of the old style Mandarin 'Wise Men'.

hvs

The problem with this plan is that recourse against any Wall Street firms (bankrupt or solvent) is dependent upon said firm remaining in business.

Set aside the obvious problems....Lehman, AIG. Suppose for example that ACME Brokerage accesses the Fed remedy and the Fed determines later that the "toxic assets" from ACME cost the Fed $XX in losses and the Fed then attempts to collect. Who is the Fed going to collect from?

Not from ACME. Their "assets", to coin a phrase from Warren Buffett, go up and down the elevators every day and night. This reality was apparent last week when everyone learned that Lehman was worth nothing when valuation was limited to the brokerage....which assets can disappear quickly.

ben

Paul Krugman is a Democratic political hack who occasionally uses pseudo-economics to back up his rants. He is a big government proponent and everything he writes is geared to the nanny state premise. The fact the MSM gives him a big forum doesn't mean we should do the same. Half baked quoted the whole Krugman article here like if it was his bible. That alone means we should give Krugman the same attention we give Andrew Sullivan, who is as much a conservative as Krugman is an economic expert.

ben

"Poindexter and Weinberger were pardoned by Bush and served no time. Does that make them innocent?"

Actually I do think they were innocent of any wrongdoing. But McCain was cleared and was not charged with anything. So yes, that does make him innocent. There is much more to tie Obama to Rezko than McCain to Keating, so if we are just going on that basis, should Obama be jailed without a trial?

BobS

Geez, ben. Nice Krugman takedown. And good job putting Andrew in your rant, too, Dude.

narciso

"And now for something completely different, the larch" By that I mean Larissa
Andronova's eleventy level rant at the Huff Po; I mean has she ever gotten any story, right?href<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larisa-alexandrovna/welcome-to-the-finalstag_b_
127990.html> If you have a strong enough stomach, check out the clueless remarks about voting machines.

John O

Simple questions, folks.

*crickets*

I'm not a Democrat. I vote 3rd party whenever I don't think either major-party candidate is not actually dangerous. That happens a lot. I want REAL change.

But this comic defense of the Republican party is just plain weird. I mean, when do we start accepting the "privatize the profits, socialize the losses" reality?

The GOP knows they could lose. As this "plan" stands right now, it looks like nothing more to me than the final "take the money and run" play by the rich Democrats and Republicans who perpetuate the partisan bickering game to great advantage for themselves, and us little people get screwed. Over, and over, and over again. Because the real issue is haves and have nots, and unless most people posting out here are completely secure in your economic future, you're an idiot for not recognizing it.

And of course Sarah Palin would not have been laughed off the national stage if she was a man, right along with McCain, though in fairness, he never would've picked her if she wasn't a hottie. It will go down in history, win or lose, as the most cynical VP pick of all time.

These are important times, folks, and while I understand some degree of tribalism, you might want to put it aside for a few minutes on election day.

Obama will be hog-tied by the mess he's given, should he win. But at least he won't be a flip-flopping moron about what he wants to do.

Will it work? I doubt it. The fact that this election is apparently close is proof enough for me.

Too many morons to overcome.


Karl

Shouldn't Paul Krugman always be referred to as "former Enron consultant Paul Krugman"?

TCO

Malkin had it right. RIP Republican Party.

Pofarmer

And of course Sarah Palin would not have been laughed off the national stage if she was a man,

Did you say the same about John Edwards????

I thought not.

Asshats.

You do realise Paulson is a Lib? Right?

Barney Frank

I'm not a Democrat. I vote 3rd party whenever I don't think either major-party candidate is not actually dangerous. That happens a lot. I want REAL change.

And how's the sale of that big bridge in Brooklyn coming along?

Karl

Also, Krugman is wrong about Fannie & Freddie's role in the subprime market, as no less a liberal rag than the Village Voice explored in depth in August. Andrew Cuomo got some 'splainin' to do.

John O

Repeating now:

Would any of you write a blank check for $700,000,000,000 to anyone, for any reason, without any conditions? It is actually your money this time, you know.

That's the "plan" as it stands now, and I predict Congress will go along with it, including most Dems.

The other question was, "Don't you find it ironic that the bailout plan as proposed takes a deregulation and oversight problem and insists that the bailout plan itself contain no provisions for oversight or, you know, regulation?"

Easy questions.

I once respected McCain a lot. But his credentials have proven to be, how to say?, overrated. He's all over the issues map, on virtually every major matter of substance. He picked someone wholly unqualified to replace his 72 year-old self, with about a 15% percent chance of dying in office, NOT including his debilitating years as a POW.

Just last month he said we should do to health care as we did to banking. He said the Bush tax cuts were irresponsible when it didn't matter politically, save maybe for his maverickiness. He is overtly against regulation, except for now during a campaign.

He's called for the firing of an SEC Chair when he can't do it, and then he followed up the next day by saying "FEC" in the same speech.

McCain is not a religious man. But he is sucking the proverbial dicks of those who think they can pray their way out of terminal illness or pray for a full gas tank.

He's said that Iraq and Pakistan shared borders. He's said that Iran was training Al Queda. He's become a proverbial gaffe machine.

His campaign staff is indisputably dominated by former lobbyists, and simultaneously says he's anti-lobbyist.

He's a long-time advocate of privatizing Social Security, except for, well, today.

McCain will bomb Iran as soon as he can, as best I can tell. That won't cost us anything in the way of creating more terrorists, turning a largely sympathetic Iranian population against us, or, you know, money.

He's hidden his VP pick from simple Q&A from a hugely historically sympathetic (to McCain) and multimillionaire press in unprecedented ways.

In some ways, I appreciate y'all, since I believe in my heart that the human condition does not allow for true correction in direction until things get wildly out of hand. And it also amuses me that his only way of "bipartisan reform" is to shit on all the culture war voters who voted for him.

Obama, OTOH, has been more thoroughly vetted than any candidate in history, by virtue of being only half-white. He's the Jackie Robinson of American politics, and Jackie Robinson was not picked first to break the color barrier in baseball simply because he was a better baseball player, no, he was picked because he was a better human being, a man who could put up with the sad, Southern racist bullshit Branch Rickey knew he'd have to put up with.

He has to fight with one hand behind his back, because any whiff of "angry negro" and he's politically, if not literally, dead.

Had he brought up the black equivalent of Sarah's future son-in-law, say a gangster rapper on stage at his convention, he'd be done. Hell, if he had a pregnant teenager, he wouldn't have even run for the nomination.

As I said earlier, can he "open up the skies," make miracles descend upon us all, and wave his magic wand to repair the national and international damage that has been done to this country in the last 8 years?

No way. But I know Australian Shepherds that couldn't be worse than Bush has been, and I pay a lot of attention to the details, and the spin from both left and right.

And living in IL, there is STILL a good chance of my vote going third party, because as I also said above, I want REAL change. I want the tax code trashed and I want the War on Drugs ended. I want the government to get out of my life, and off my back, which means I want the right to die with the proper consent of my friends, family, and clergy. I couldn't care less if gay people get married. I think it is obscene to adopt a national pro-torture policy, and I think it is obscene that so many so-called "Christians" defend it.

And I wouldn't give a $700,000,000,000 blank check to anyone, period, end of story, without one helluva lot of caveats.

John O

I don't care what politics Paulson has. He strikes me as pretty competent guy.

I'm not writing him a blank check for $700B no matter what, just as I wouldn't write one to a spouse or best friend.

That's just plain irrational. Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.

Deal with it. There isn't any way to rationally disagree that's what is happening.

Also, I don't care about ANYONE'S sex life, ever, right up until they win elections on what "family values" people they are. You didn't hear it out Clinton (hell, we knew he was a cheater before we elected him the FIRST time) and Edwards' message about the poor remain viable to me, nor did he go out and preach what a sexually pure human being he was. And his wife is even smarter.

Presumably, you'd have kicked Jefferson out of the Constitutional Convention for his philandering. THAT would've served us all well.

cathyf
Cathy's slideshow is excellent. Thanks.

As I recall, she works in the Street herself; she may be a little busy right now.

Hey, I can't claim credit for the slideshow -- I just passed along the link that my SIL sent me. And I had forgotten all about it, too -- which is a travesty, since it is pretty excellent! Here is the place my SIL got the link from -- I can't figure out who the author of the slide show is to give proper credit, but I certainly want to hasten to correct the notion that it's my slide show. I can only dream of being that clever!

As to being busy, I've been about 2-3 days behind you guys for about the last 4 weeks. I took a part-time job doing tech support at my daughter's school, and have been volunteering, too. And trying to churn out resumes to anything remotely within my skillset and within a reasonable driving distance.

Unfortunately the market for quant/techs is glutted up with folks recently laid off or soon to be laid off who actually live within commuting distance to financial centers, so it's a sucky time to be unemployed. Oh, well, there's the 13 weeks of extra unemployment I might be starting into soon.

...maybe I'll change my nick to "rider of the purple wage"...

John O

It's been nice getting to know you all.

Good luck. Heck, we're all going to need quite a bit of it.

Vote McCain. He's a fucking calm, level-headed man of principle, not to mention foreign and economic policy genius. I mean, just listen to whatever position du jour he's taking!

G'night.

cathyf
There were lots and lots of "buy and bails" going on for several months. So I have to wonder if the problem wasn't merely the mortgages themselves, but the HELOC's which were based on inflated home values.

I am a financial dummy, but I can see blatant fraud, even if I can't describe it.

CC (happy birthday, by the way :-) I'm still behind in comments so I don't know if someone else answered this: a key question is "non-recourse" vs. "recourse" states. In most states, if you default on your mortgage, and the bank forecloses, then the bank is entitled to file suit against you and get a judgement for the amount of the mortgage balance PLUS the legal & service costs of foreclosing and selling the property MINUS any proceeds they got from selling. If you read this Reader's Digest story about Mr. Foreclosure you can see how if you default on a mortgage you can end up owing a lot more than the original loan amount.

Ok, that is most states. Then there are the "non-recourse" states. Most notably, California. In a non-recourse state, the mortgage holder has no recourse beyond the foreclosed-upon house. In a non-recourse state, a rich person who can afford to pay their mortgage can walk away from an "underwater" property without penalty. In the recourse states, though, the only way out is to file for bankruptcy.

So you live in California, and so you personally know people who are committing what sure looks like fraud. I personally know people on the other side... For example, good friends of my MIL. Their son took a good paying job in an incredibly remote rural area, and took out a $500,000 mortgage to build their dream home. It's beautiful, but remote. Really remote -- the house is off the grid. So, after finishing the house and moving in, they realized that it was way way too remote for them. So now they live 1500 miles away, and their white elephant of a "dream house" doesn't have a hope of selling, and they have rented it out for about 1/4 of their mortgage. But he has a high-paying job, and they can afford to pay the mortgage on their white elephant and on the house they live in. And as long as he has a job and can make it work he would be insane to attempt any kind of default. Sure, if they are financially ruined then the bank will share their pain, but as long they can afford it, they will owe more on their really nice "vacation" house than they owe on their main residence.

To me, the most bizarre and mystifying aspect of the whole mortgage debacle is that mortgages in non-recourse states didn't, and still don't, command significantly higher interest rates than loans in the rest of the country. And, indeed, the valuation models don't seem to pay any attention at all to the fact that in some states defaulting on your mortgage doesn't ding you much, while in other states you don't have the practical ability to default unless you are truly destitute.

M. Simon

Yep. Edwards message about the poor. I get it. Didn't the Democrats help the poor enough with NINJA Mortgages with the assistance of Dodd, Clinton, Obama, Raines, Johnson, Mudd, etc.?

Aren't we in this mess because the Democrats wanted to help the poor while helping themselves?

The poor are now out on the street again and Mudd has a 22 room Colonial mansion.

Yeah Edwards had the right idea. Rob from the poor in the name of helping the poor while giving to the rich. Democrats are such caring politicians. You just have to figure what they care about.

s sommer

Hey, John O.. kindred spirit. I get tired of so many people knocking their brains out to defend their political "team," when both R's & D's totally suck.

The sooner we AMERICANS wake up to that fact, become bottom-line logical, get religion out of state affairs and work for common good, the better.
We are soon going to be too broke not to get real.

The last 8 years shows how bad things go wrong, with idiots and fanatics in charge. Our bad luck, our current batch of candidates is also pathetic...

We need to give our politicians feedback and guidance, pay attention to as much as we can, because leaving them to their own devices is so destructive. WE have to be the oversight, not just stupid cheerleaders, taking sides..

Who cares who wins? Both sides are BAD, the Congress is useless.. how do Pelosi & Reid survive, being so stupid & useless!? The R's, just as bad.

We have to tell them what to do, what we want, and watch over them like hawks! My congressman knows who I am, much to his chagrin.

His performance has improved, over years of pressure and input. Without any donations.
Just incessant common sense, kick ass comments.

I do not know what more to do.. wish I did.

M. Simon

I'm not a Democrat.

Always an Obot tell. Dude. Real people around here just state their position and give evidence.

You really have to take it back to "concern troll" school and up your game.

I know this will be hard but try to act human.

BTW TCO is working hard to defeat the Republicans. He is from the land of the purists. Utopia where the real Republicans (Conservatives actually) reside.

If this was a real country it would be full of real conservatives. Not people of different views and opinions. They would all be taking orders from a real leader like Malkin.

So I'm not a Democrat take some lessons from TCO. He understands the leader principle. I'm told it sounds better in the original German.

M. Simon

Sommer,

I'm knocking myself out for the team most likely to screw me the least.

It is kind of like being a Cubs fan most years. It gives you some skin in the game.

BTW is that you Suzanne? Loved you in Zuma Beach.

M. Simon

Their "assets", to coin a phrase from Warren Buffett, go up and down the elevators every day and night.

Currently those "assets" are viewed as a liability. Which in fact given their performance they are. Getting them off the balance sheet improves the net worth.

kim

Omigod, someone hire cathyf. You have no idea how much talent you are getting.
==========================================

JM Hanes

"And living in IL, there is STILL a good chance of my vote going third party, because as I also said above, I want REAL change."

"Hey, John O.. kindred spirit."

LOL! They're working in pairs now.


Ryan

The bailout is ridiculous, and not needed, and only taxes future generations. (And both candidates want to increase govt spending?) NESARA as drafted by Dr. Barnard is the only way out of our fiscal and monetary mess. Force balanced budget, abolish income and capital taxes in favor of 14% sales tax on everything else except rents, groceries, insurance, and medical services; new monetary tools to ensure 0% inflation; abolish compound interest on secured loans in favor of simple monetization fee, and require principals be paid before before banks are allowed to collect on the monetization fee. No payment no matter how small will always reduce a debt to zero, banks more willing to prevent foreclosures and will turn around funds for more loans sooner. No more of this pay for 2.5 houses just to own 1. Pay for just 1.5 and be done with it in 17 years. National debt paid off in 30 years while standard of living doubled within a generation. NESARA (not the hoax, but Dr. Barnard's original version). A 21st century engineered solution for a 21st century economy. Google the NESARA Institute.

TCO

Have fun, you fucking RINOS. You've killed the party of Reagan, Goldwater and Buckley. I don't want to be associated with you maggots.

TCO

"Yes, yes, crony Democrats are to blame for much of how we got here. You don’t need to recite all the talking points back to me. I’ve been writing about the Fannie/Freddie debacle for years.

But it is September 19, 2008. And this is a Republican White House presiding over the Mother of All Bailouts. "

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/09/19/the-mother-of-all-bailouts-the-death-of-fiscal-conservatism/

TCO

I'm not a purist. I'm just not someone who would vote for an R even if he raped my wife and cut my kids heads off. And most of you would. While giving the criminals a blowjob. Have fun working for Goldman, faggots.

clarice

Interesting, cathy. I never knew there were non-recourse states. That might explain why there's so much inventory still sitting there unsold. So much that I saw an article a week or so ago that cougars had moved into one fancy development outside of L.A. where there were a large number of vacated new homes.

I sure wouldn't want to be in the mortgage business in California.

PeterUK

"I'm not a purist. I'm just not someone who would vote for an R even if he raped my wife and cut my kids heads off."

Does your address coincide with that of an institution for the criminally insane?

PeterUK

"I'm not writing him a blank check for $700B no matter what, just as I wouldn't write one to a spouse or best friend."

You have $700B ? BTW your spouse can take it.

PeterUK

"BTW TCO is working hard to defeat the Republicans. He is from the land of the purists. Utopia where the real Republicans (Conservatives actually) reside."

Might be a useful part of the debate to point out that Conservatism is not a devil take the hindmost political philosophy.There is nothing in conservatism that precludes conserving.

clarice

PUK, Guess which pistola I'm holding up?

kim

Might I add that TCO has a lot to subtract, also?

TCO, your namecalling characterizes you more than anyone else. There's still plenty of Jolliffe to beat up on over at Tamino's. Steve has a new post by a Jeff Id which is revelatory. He has his own website, too.

These people here are not like you and I, TCO; they revel in subtlety. Once you mature, you will too.
=========================================

kim

No fair, c; that was concealed until I posted.
===========================

kim

Steve's Quebec Cedar post is an eye-opener, too. Clarice, TCO is another anduril, fabulously talented and cranky. A troll of a whole 'nother order. Steve McIntyre tolerated him for years.
=======================================

steveaz

This whole mess conforms perfectly to my "Hippies in Debt" formulation.

Basically, the Dem's platform, distilled, amounts to absolving people from their voluntary financial obligations. For example, if you applied for a home loan and don't want to pay your promises, the Party's there for you. If you took out thousands in student loans in your twenties, but you're forty now and don't want to pay them back, then the Party's there for you. If you got your girlfriend pregnant and don't want to foot the bill to raise the baby, then the Party's there for you (Abort! Abort!).

The Dem's are the party of "No Credit, No Worries!"

I'm with Extraneus and Charlie, let's dig deep into the borrowers' records that we, as taxpayers, now own. There are fingerprints all over them, and I'm sure we'll find enough evidence to put some folks in the dock.

On a personal note, I am concerned that in the Dem's hurry to put a "chicken in every pot" they may have discriminated against better borrowers that lacked the correct racial-background. If the Dem's left middle class African, Irish, or Asian Americans out of their welfare scheme, I'd sure like to know about it.

Cecil Turner

I'm not a purist. I'm just not someone who would vote for an R [a D] even if he raped my wife and cut my kids heads off.

There, fixed it for ya. Is Pelosi still calling for Barney Frank to investigate this? And since "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives," I'm sure we'll see some principled action there. Oh yeah, here we go:

"The House will act quickly on this proposal — I expect to bring it to the floor early next week," Hoyer said in a statement. [. . .]

Hoyer also dropped a not-so-subtle hint that House Democrats would continue to push for some form of a second economic stimulus package.

“We will also look to enact other measures to help the economy recover and assist those who have been hit hardest by this crisis," he said.

Oh great, so the only argument from the Dems is how much pork to add to the bailout? And your solution is to elect more of them? Yeah, that makes sense . . .

kim

Hah, this is funny, but fairly esoteric. Jeff Id's work is at icecap.us mislabelled as Ian Jolliffe's.
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centralcal

Thank you, Clarice, for waving your pistola around at people who abet and feed the vermin.

PeterUK

"PUK, Guess which pistola I'm holding up?"
The dinky little one,but where did you leave your glasses?

PeterUK

cc,
You don't quite get it,they don't want you to respond.The idea is to fill the thread with contrary propaganda so that readers,the lurkers,cannot tell the orientation of the blog.
The purpose of the trolls is to dilute your voice,just as they have done with the Democrat party.

Charlie (Colorado)

Have fun working for Goldman, faggots.

Give us a kiss then.

kim

Pete, Christopher Booker, in the Telegraph today, is good on the carbon trading schemes. He makes explicit the connections between Gore and Hansen and Lehman.
==============================

clarice

I don't need no stinkin' glasses!! POW

boris

The purpose of the trolls is to dilute your voice ...

More than that they seek to downgrade the culture to the default prisoner's dilema standard. A significant factor in the success of culture based on judeo christian values is that honesty and trust promote greater prosperity and economic freedom. The trolls seek to increase distrust to a point where the people abandon the honesty value system for the more darwinian tit for tat value system.

Charlie (Colorado)

I don't need no stinkin' glasses!! POW

Careful of the cats there.

boris

That is why hypocrisy is their main accusation. It is perfectly rational to use honesty values with those we trust and tit for tat with trolls and similar ilk. In their view this is like discrimination, hence tu quoque "You're just a dishonest as we are but you're HYPOCRITES too and THAT'S WORSE !!!"

TCO

700 billion dollars transferred from taxpayers to financial speculators. BOTH a bailout of New York City Democrat-laden firms like Goldman (and thus wrong morally/economically) AS WELL as something that will be a completed dud politically.

Say goodbye to the Republican Party, people.

---------------------

Kim: McI is making more of that cedar thing, than he should. That chronology was not at a temp limited location.

M. Simon

Peter,

Did you catch the article on the sinking of the Tirpitz?

I had never read about the aftermath. And his girlfriend "Same old dull John".

Charlie (Colorado)

"Goodbye, Republican Party."

M. Simon

TCO,

As I recall there was a time when we all worked for GM. Evidently it may come again soon.

BTW it appears McCain is taking your advice. He thinks bailouts are a bad idea. And a certain Democrat is saying nuffin.

TCO

Well...since you douchebags are PRO bailout, maybe you should be going against McCain now. GRRRRRRRRRRRR!

TCO

And McCain has been a total WIMP about coming out anti-bailout. If he had done it the way I wanted, he would have

1. divorced himself from the disaster.
2. tied Barry and Bush together to the disaster.
3. Maybe fucking helped get a groundswell AGAINST giving money to GOD-DAMNED Goldman Sachs.

TCO

Palin is anti bailout. McCain doesn't know what the hell he is. Bush is a fucking turd flower.

PeterUK

kim,
I was going to post Bookers's column earlier,but got distracted reading his comments.Interesting,the trolls are the same as here,reality by assertion and repetition.

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Wilson/Plame