The Lion, The Mouth, And Marc Ambinder

The courageous and always interesting Marc Ambinder muses about the nature of truth and asks this:

Perhaps it's the Republicans who lie more and the media fails to note this; perhaps it's the Democrats who lie more and the media fails to note this. (Has anyone figured out how to figure out whether Democrats lie more often or more consequentially than Republicans? Republicans more often or more consequentially than Democrats?)

OMG.  I don't want to be near his inbox when the email stack up claiming "Bush lied, thousands (of US troops) died.  One might argue that, lately anyway, Dem lies have lacked consequence becuase they have lacked power.  Reaching back, one might argue that Dem advocacy for the welfare state was in many ways a social disaster and may have been based on "lies", but (despite the importance and success of welfare reform) it is hardly a point on which there is general consensus.

Well, good luck with this one, Marc - I won't be emailing.

Comments

[dking70]

He should ask Sullivan.

[kim]

I think he's misusing the word consequentially. I could be wrong.
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[Topsecretk9]

speaking of honesty

"What I care about is: What in God's name is she going to do — along with John McCain — about the thousands of people who don't have health care?" Biden asked. He'll ask her about "The superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan where my helicopter was forced down...John McCain wants to know where Bin Ladin and the gates of Hell are? I can tell him where. That's where Al Quaida is. That's where Bin Ladin is. It's not in the country of Iraq."

flashback

Update at 3:43 p.m. ET: A Biden spokesperson also is characterizing the landing to CNN as more of an "unscheduled," instead of "emergency," event because of unexpected bad weather.

Media Blog - LUN

[bgates]

Democratic lies made it easier for Europe to refuse to send troops to Iraq and for Turkey to close off the northern invasion route, not to mention the morale boost to the enemy.

Democratic lies have told the world that America fights for conquest and the sheer joy of murder. Democratic lies have told the world that America uses energy in the gleeful expectation that we'll flood the cities of the third world. If world anti-Americanism is consequential, so are Democratic lies.

[w3bgrrl]

Democrats have a view of government based on a false premise that contradicts the constitution. To paraphrase Janet Reno, Democrats seem to believe that the US government grants its citizens more rights than any other government in the world.

I'm not sure it qualifies as a lie. It could be they simply lack reading comprehension.

[Barney Frank]

My slowly evolved and very general political theory is that a person's politics are basically a reflection of their underlying personality traits.
Liberalism tends toward personal irresponsibility or at least excusing it in others and a much easier expectation of their right to their neighbor's time and treasure, enforced by government coercion if necessary.
Underlying it all is a deep and general sense of entitlement.
And part and parcel of a sense of entitlement is an easier justification of dishonesty in enforcing it. Obviously there are many exceptions to the rule on both sides but generally my experience is that the left and liberals are by and large more willing to engage in dishonesty to achieve their goals and even the honest ones are more tolerant of dishonesty in their comrades.

[Rick Ballard]

The courageous and always interesting Marc Ambinder

Furnishing examples in the first sentence?

"I think he's misusing the word consequentially.

Kim,

You don't think adding a syllable to consequently improves it? Or was he shooting for something to do with consequence? Personally, I believe that "whether Democrats lie more often or more sequentially than Republicans" makes more sense, if any is to made at all. I would be happy to debate the premise that Democrats lie more sequentially, although it is still as awkward and ill chosen as the initial construction.

Debating whether TM's first sentence rises to the level of a noble lie would also be fun.

[Pofarmer]

Why should the Federal govt be involved in my education or health care? Keep em the hell out of it.

[kim]

Rick, the meaning is 'with consequences' and I don't think that's what 'consequentially' means. If this construction is correct, I've just not seen it before.
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[kim]

Maybe 'consequentiallated' or 'consequencious', but not 'consequentially'.
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[kim]

'consequenceful'?
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[DrJ]

Why not replace "more consequentially" with "with greater consequence"?

[MayBee]

What I take away from the left blogs is that if the media isn't destroying Republicans, they are pretty much being Republican shills.
A good press would call McCain a liar, would talk about him calling his wife a trollop, would have George Bush in jail by now. That is the truth they seek.

ps. I am suspect of most any jourlist-type entity that wants to tell me the "truth". I'd rather hear the facts, or an opinion. The "truth" is generally some blend thereof.

[MayBee]

journalist-type

[Rick Ballard]

Kim,

The construction is still ill formed, "or that their lies are of greater moment (or import[ance] or consequence)" would better express the presumed intent.

[PeterUK]

Or replete with consequence.

[Neo]

Why should the Federal govt be involved in my education or health care? Keep em the hell out of it.

This may be more a state and local issue, but I question if the government should be running schools at all. I can see "provide" education, where this function is paid for by the goernment to clear and obvious requirements, but having the government run schools seems to be a loser.

[Aubrey]

Well, it is the left that has embraced post-modern thought. There is no good or evil, true or false. Life gets so much easier when you discard those obsolete concepts.

[stan]

Lies? Hmmmmmmm.

Blacks and women earn less than white men for doing the same job. Super Bowl violence. Republicans are all racists. Code words.

3 million homeless. And put on the street by Reagan's policies.

Jobless recovery. Tax cuts for the rich. Minimum wage laws boost employment levels.

Global warming, DDT, population bomb, Bush killed Kyoto.

Iraq -- civil war, quagmire.

Requiring IDs to vote equals racist repression.

Bush stole 2000 election. Bush lied about WMDs. Plame and Wilson told truth and were targeted by Bush, Cheney.

Palin banned books, called Barack "Sambo", wanted creationism to be taught in schools, was not her baby's real mother, wants Alaska to secede from the union and screwed around with her husband's partner.

Obama is not partisan and reaches across the aisle to bring people together.

Bill Clinton only lied about sex.

That's just for starters. Is there anything that Democrats say that is NOT a lie?

[Crimso]

"Is there anything that Democrats say that is NOT a lie?"

"That'll be $5.63 at the second window."

[AST]

It occurred to me recently when I reread an explanation of deconstructionism and postmodernism that the left has eliminated lying by redefining truth to mean whatever it finds expedient.

Conservatives, by clinging to old ideas of objective truth, have doomed themselves to being wrong from time to time and thereby becoming liars, like George W. Bush.

I hope my sarcasm is coming through.