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September 27, 2008

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Jane

Simon -

Something that says in essence - Why is Chuck Schumer throwing Obama under the bus?

The Acorn part of the bail-out bill does only two things - highlight how ACORN is at the heart of what made this bill necessary, and highlight ACORN's ongoing voter fraud - issues that are currently under investigation is several states and in front of the Congress. But the real impact could be to the democrats presidential candidate who served as ACORN's lawyer, and was their biggest proponent of them as a community organizer.

Then the money connection between Obama, Acorn and FM/FM, and how Schumer's ploy to funnel ACORN more money to sew up the next few decades of democrat wins, he may actually expose his own candidate's achilles' heel.

Something like that.

M. Simon

jc,

You have exactly captured the mood of the country.

Jane

I'd say Mr. Smooth as Snake Oil himself is in some kind of panic

I agree, and it is more than the fact that these dems are responsible for this scandal. My guess is that this is the tip of the iceberg. I mean what the hell was Rangel doing there?

Even if we don't have answers, the questions should go viral.

RichatUF

bgates-

while we Republicans quietly watched

Why are the R's even around? The Dem's run both chambers of the Congress-this bill should have been done on Thursday. Nothing is going to get done and the Dem's with their media allies and community organizing thugs are going to get what they want-a financial system meltdown starting Monday.

Now they are talking tax increases.

Charlie (Colorado)

Simon, I've dealt with depression most of my life, and if there is anything I've learned, it's that the gun in your mouth to punish the sonsofbitches is not a winning strategy.

Jane

The other thing, is Schumer has to know he is putting Obama at risk, so what does ACORN have on all of them?

M. Simon

jane,

I will write it up when things quite down here and have it up in the early AM tomorrow.

I will leave links on several threads.

Jane

And where is george Soros?

Jane

Thanks Simon.

Extraneus

Good question, Jane. He must be making some moves these days.

Charlie (Colorado)

I hate to fall into this, but there is at least one explanation of why the D's would go to the mat with this.

Pelosi is #3 in line to be President.

M. Simon

Simon, I've dealt with depression most of my life, and if there is anything I've learned, it's that the gun in your mouth to punish the sonsofbitches is not a winning strategy.

Agreed. Now all you have to do is convince about 200 million other Americans who are mad as hell and not going to take it any more.

The Ds have given us a choice: a coup or a depression. So pick your poison. Me? I think a depression will be easier to recover from.

JM Hanes

Item One:

Schumer's posse are terrified that this could send them all down the tubes in November.

Item Two:

Assuming Item One, they should have every incentive to get this swept up as fast as conceivably possible, yet they are holding out for (or strings are being pulled by) ACORN and/or________?

Sara (Pal2Pal)

"Mint runs out of gold coins - sales halted"

sbw

jc: Screw it, we are better off with a Depression than a government run by thugs.

Neither is acceptable.

I run a small business with 65 employees. A local newspaper. It is essential to the community, but the community neither knows, nor appreciates it. Which means they won't pay for it. So it depends on advertising, but advertising drops off when the economy drops off.

Without a newspaper, the community doesn't read how the greedy thugs are undermining society or that schools don't help make students aware enough to see it for themselves.

And I don't get paid so that I can finish putting my kids through college.

But, hey, let's have a depression.

-- You want to rethink that?

PeterUK

"Would You Buy a Used Car from These Guys?"

OR

Did YOU Buy a Used Car From THESE GUYS ?

boris

they should have every incentive to get this swept up as fast as conceivably possible

They can sweep it up at any time. What they want to do is put Republicans in a politically untenable position so the Republican base dumps out for a long long time leaveng dimorats to run everything so they can cover their asses.

If the dimorats do it alone, they risk a Repub takeover and investigations.

M. Simon

sbw,

If the Ds gain the power they want you won't be able to publish anyway.

Kinda sucks don't it.

sbw

M.Simon, I've been dealing with this since 1980, when I first discovered that my excellent education didn't teach me the things I needed to know.

And I decided to learn what I needed to know, why they didn't teach me, and how to turn it around.

28 years of hobby.

Yeah, it sucks... but the hobby is interesting.

Imagine how Socrates felt at his trial.

boris

Neither is acceptable

The dimorats are giving the country a choice right now, either Repubs commit political suicide or depression. If that level of extortion is not acceptable then something needs to happen to change the situation.

M. Simon

sbw,

Then you know that a college education is way overrated. I never got one. Thank the Maker.

Extraneus

they should have every incentive to get this swept up as fast as conceivably possible

Exactly. They are clearly responsible, yet, for some reason, not only not contrite but brazen. McCain passed up a golden opportunity to inform the nation of what Bush didn't say the other night. The bill doesn't even include any changes to the CRA or any lending rules, in other words the root causes, or at least I haven't seen that anywhere.

Very suspicious.

sbw

Boris, I like the way you talk.

Ralph L

We will not agree to a bill that bails out Wall Street at the expense of American taxpayers.
This sounds distressingly like the Republican Congress of 1930, that doubled the tax rate to keep the government solvent. I hope it's just a bargaining position, and they won't bite their nose to spite their face. The Dems do have chutzpah.

I'm glad my 80 y.o. father has a Navy pension, because the Wachovia stock he inherited from his father and my mother is, or rather, was a big chunk of his portfolio (and mine). My step-mother is very expensive.

M. Simon

American Thinker (Clarice) has the video

Comment at AT:

Thank you Clarice. Thank you, thank you, thank you for putting this out there.

Posted by: Jeanne T.

JM Hanes

boris:

"If that level of extortion is not acceptable then something needs to happen to change the situation."

Who should be making what happen? What are you recommending?

M. Simon

Clarice,

Thank you! for the link.

Simon

Pagar

"What they want to do is put Republicans in a politically untenable position"

This is what I don't understand. Why are we sitting here acting like Republicans are holding up passage of any bill? If the Democrats hold their own party members in the vote, the Republican members can not stop the House from passing any bill (as I understand the rules), so why is anyone arguing that the Republicans are to blame?

Jane

why is anyone arguing that the Republicans are to blame?

Same reason Nancy Pelosi came out and said the republicans were "unpatriotic" because they didn't attend a meeting they were not invited to - because they can.

Ranger

You know, it would be easier for me to believe this was a crisis, if the people in charge were acting like it was a crisis, instead of just an opportunity for graft. Then again, to some of these people, everything is just an opportunity for graft.

posted at 02:49 PM by Glenn Reynolds

I think that pretty well sums it up.

boris
boris:

"If that level of extortion is not acceptable then something needs to happen to change the situation."

Who should be making what happen? What are you recommending?

JMH, I suggest parsing that as an observation.

JM Hanes

PUK:

You're on a roll, but I think something more like this is what we're really talking about.

sbw

At the WSJ, they wrote: "Democrats are also still pushing for ... more help for homeowners facing foreclosure."

I commented:

Call this what it is: a massive payout to ACORN. Then tell us who ACORN is, what they do "best", how they operate, where their tentacles extend, what has been revealed in investigations, where they have been prosecuted, and who -- like FANNIE MAE, Barney Frank, and Barack Obama -- have had close ties with them. What a "you scratch may back and I'll scratch yours" seamy relationship.

sbw

***may*** s/b "my"

PeterUK

Voters need reminding that the Democrats are throwing an anvil to a drowning man.

matt

why aren't publications like American Spectator or NR or the Weekly Standard on this story? There have to be a bunch of good conservative forensic accountants (since they tend to be conservative anyway). From what I've seen, there's already a ton of video and a paper trail a mile long. At some point, this has got to blow up, and it smells like a democratic party nightmare.

JM Hanes

boris:

"JMH, I suggest parsing that as an observation."

Huh? I don't even know what that means. I wasn't snarking, I was asking questions, because I really wondered what you had in mind.

clarice

Some people see disaster. I see opportunity--the insistence on paying out to ACORN gives us a unique chance to let the public know about this crooked outfit , its friends on the hill, and why they are so linked together.

boris

G.Reynolds:

You know, it would be easier for me to believe this was a crisis, if the people in charge were acting like it was a crisis, instead of just an opportunity for graft.
At this point even Reynolds starts to "gets it". However, he doesn't see that graft for themselves may not be the intent, getting Repubs to sign on makes them just as guilty and the Repub base will punish them for it. It's their new favorite post-Foley maneuver.

Under the circumstances I recommend the Repubs call their bluff. Make the dims pass their grafty carp and then slaughter them in the election. Or force them to back off to a politically tenable package Republicans can stay elected with.

If we can't turst the dimorats to do one or the other then they really are no better than the terrorists they're rooting for in the war.

JMH: I wasn't snarking

Neither was I. Sorry if my mood has infected my tone.

PeterUK

JMH,
I like the train but is has a certain forlorn charm,it needs some really seedy dreck.
Time to start talking irresponsabiliy ,betrayal of the workers,Make it sound like the ancien regime trampling the faces of the down downtrodden masses

clarice

Exactly, Boris..A clean bill or a bill passed only by the Dems with a strong denunciation of the ACORN decorations.

Dodd and Pelosi and Reid and Schumer figured the Reps would go along with the Pres and put responsibility to avert the crisis over and above their unwillingness to let our pockets be picked for the benefit of the Dem party and Obama.

clarice

PUK--You are a man of my heart. S.m.o.o.c.h.e.s.

Charlie (Colorado)

Okay, give me some bullet points, I'll write it and send it to Roger and Jose.

Charlie (Colorado)

I anyone wants to collaborate, I can set up a google doc.

JM Hanes

Not to worry, boris. When I don't understand something you say to me, I tend to assume you're being sardonic. This isn't the first time I've made that mistake. :-)

Charlie (Colorado)

Jennifer Rubin:

Really, the Democrats have Option “A” and Option “B”. “A” is make the darn deal themselves. “B” is get the Republicans on board. “B” requires that the Democrats extend a modicum of respect and flexibility to the opposition, solicit the views of the Republicans and maybe jettison the more egregious parts of their own package. They don’t want to do any of that. Well, Madam Speaker, there is always “A.” But she doesn’t want “A.” And so it goes.
JM Hanes

Yes, I can go for that too. I loved it when Boehner said it's high time that Democrats admitted they control Congress.

clarice

If you need me whistle,charlie

Extraneus

Don't the Democrats think the Great Depression was their all-time greatest moment ever? Don't they love the direction the government went after that, and all the programs they got in the Deal?

They have no problem rooting against their own country in a war, and for recession as long as they're out of power, so why would we put it past them to engineer another depression during a Republican administration?

boris

My bullet point: Some part of the dimorat motive in this is to force Repubs to betray their base. Perhaps to maintain enough power to avoid legal jeopardy.

clarice

Well, Charlie, don't you think J rubin said it as well as it could be said? I do.

M. Simon

I have already instructed my rep Manzullo (R) - No Acorn. No La Raza. No drilling moratorium.

BTW he was there when Congress adjourned and was speaking for drilling. My town has 10% unemployment. The area has 9%. We are being killed by high oil prices.

Rick Ballard

Pelosi and Reid cannot hold their caucus on a party line vote. The Reps Plan B would carry with Dem votes to spare. The issue is way too hot and party discipline will crack. Party puke threats don't mean much when your seat is on the line.

It's not as risky as it looks.

PeterUK

Make sure you get the main protagonists in the frame,Pelosi ,Reid,Schumer,Obama and ACORN,then flush everything you have over their heads

M. Simon

You know - I told all my R friends that letting the Ds in in 2006 was a big mistake no matter how pissed the Rs were at their reps.

Can I call 'em?

MayBee

I think she said it well too, clarice.

I wish I would have had her concise words yesterday when I was discussing this with a lefty. He said the Republicans were keeping a bill from being passed because the democrats needed a consensus. I said they didn't need a consensus, but if they wanted one they had to build one.

I think other people realize this is the case, and that's why yesterday some unnamed Democratic sources started to say Nancy might never have had the votes. That was to cover for her not bringing it to the floor.

MayBee

M Simon-

You know - I told all my R friends that letting the Ds in in 2006 was a big mistake no matter how pissed the Rs were at their reps.

Sadly, there are quite a few Republicans that still think we should let Obama win so the country will be begging for Republicans to return, and the Reps that return will be the good kind like they used to make.

Charlie (Colorado)

Sadly, there are quite a few Republicans that still think we should let Obama win so the country will be begging for Republicans to return, and the Reps that return will be the good kind like they used to make.

Even Newt has figured out that a banking collapse would be catastrophic.

Charlie (Colorado)

Well, I really meant that to be italics; I guess I missed the button.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Tell me if the statement I just posted in Jim Lingren thread HERE gives any of you comfort. It is the statement of my Congressman, one of the House Republicans.

Jane

Oh I mentioned ACORN yesterday to some DU lefties who consider themselves well informed. They called me a liar. I showed them the bill. They said it didn't say that and called me a liar. They denied Obama had anything to do with ACORN. I showed them the proof; they called me a liar. I blamed the current mess on Barney Frank and Chris Dodd - they called me a liar. I showed them the proof. They ended the conversation.

These are the well informed democrats.

clarice

She's the Speaker only because of the blue dogs and the blue dogs will not be reelected if they vote with her on this w/o scrubbing ACORN.

With any luck the Pride of Baltimore,Mayor D'Alesandro's little darling , will make a fatal miscalculation.

Barney Frank

The Repubs don't seem to have too much imagination.
Instead of complaing about ACORN like a bunch of crybabies, as clarice put it, why not sign on to the idea by saying "yeah we agree, but half of the 20% has to go to the NRA for its game donations to food closets, the National Right to Work Committee for trying to make sure there are jobs for all and food banks and crisis pregnancy centers run by Evangelical churches". ACORN would be dropped like a hot nut.

DebinNC

Why did Pelosi describe House Reps as unpatriotic today? That sounds like someone with no intention of ever going to Plan B. I don't understand.

Pofarmer

Cecil, I don't think there's anything about the R plan for MBS insurance that's bad EXCEPT THAT IT DOESN'T ADDRESS THE PROBLEM.

The problem is the credit lockup.

The problem is the credit lockup.

The problem is the credit lockup.

If that problem isn't solved before checks start to bounce, the insurance will be lipstick on the corpse.

How many times has the fed now "injected liquidity" in this market. It just might be time to cut bait.

M. Simon

I don't see how Pelosi is going to get any Rs to vote for the bill.

Too much distrust:

The Rs make the Ds vote first and then don't vote for it. Ds left holding the bag.

This turkey is going no where.

clarice

Way too cute,BF.

They just let the stuff out on ACORN--bypassing the media if need be and just going with press conferences, email and IT blitzes, appearances on talk radio--every way possible--and say they will not llow the voters to be ripped off again by these crooks and vote thieves and until the Dems drop this there's no deal. If the Dems cared about our country they would stop insisting on this rip off for these thugs to pass the legislation instead of treating a disaster they and ACORN created as an opportunity for ripping off the taxpayers yet again.

Charlie (Colorado)

How many times has the fed now "injected liquidity" in this market. It just might be time to cut bait.

None, actually. We're still waiting.

And Pofarmer, if you don't think a depression or really major recession will hurt you, you're a fool, even if you think it will hurt other people more.

If you really think hurting other people as much as it will hurt them is acceptable, you're not actually someone you want to know personally.

M. Simon

I hang out at No Quarter A LOT. The PUMAs are totally pissed. A lot of them are going to vote straight R they are so disgusted with the Ds. Some of them doing this have never voted for an R in their lives.

Charlie (Colorado)

Clarice, if the House R's start pushing the ACORN stuff openly, then the D's will announce that the unpatriotic R's wouldn't let them write a good bill that helped Main Street instead of Wall Street.

Then paychecks start to bounce.

Who wins?

clarice

It's all in how it's sold--and you know what, I put my trust in Eric Cantor to figure out the best way. I'd begin tomorrow with leaks that we are alsmot there but for the Tinsel and then explain why the tinsel is a slap in the face to taxpayers--it's a whole lot easier to understand than all the fancy talk about liquidity-ACORN broke it and we are damned if we'll give them money that belongs to the taxpayers so they can break it again.

It's easy.

M. Simon

Charlie,

You are not getting the mood out there: People are sick and tired of being ripped off. They expect their investments to be stolen in any case and given to some no account.

When you ain't got nothin you got nothin to lose.

It will not be the end of the world. There will be a lot of pain. But people are sick of Washington. Sick. Sick. Sick.

It is pointless to be bitchin here. I'm voting straight R. Just like I did in '06. If you have a D rep that is where you have some leverage. Tell the rep what you want.

centralcal

I agree, Clarice!

RichatUF

From National Review-

Just talked to a friend who is plugged-in to all this who wants a deal and has tended to think all along that there will be a deal. Now he’s not so sure. He thinks the wheels are coming off. House Republicans want their insurance as a mandatory thing rather than an option, while the House Democratic caucus is imploding and pulling the deal far to the left. It’s getting ugly.

From about an hour ago, now I'm reading tax increases too and that the insurance provisions are running cold. Interesting how a bankrupt firm could pay taxes, but anyway.

So its looking like no deal. Wonder if the WaMu deal was a test run for a Sunday night masscare-the FDIC ends up holding the bad assets of the banks they close and has to call in PIMCO to get a proper valuation on them. Could work. Maybe?

centralcal

If you have a D rep that is where you have some leverage. Tell the rep what you want.

Honey, I have Babs Boxer, Diane Feinstein - as far as Senators go. No leverage there at all. They will die in office.

My Republican House Reps are okay and already on board, I'm pretty sure.

Pofarmer

That's what I heard yesterday, as well.

I think it is time for the White House to walk and tell everybody why. Screw it, we are better off with a Depression than a government run by thugs.

I've kind of come around to that view myself. Thugs in fine suits, as it were.

DrJ


off?

Jim

If it's ACORN and La Raza the House GOP unwilling to budge over, I might be willing to accept a depression. You have to draw the line somewhere. But if it's just that they want their insurance plan, then they're almost as bad as the Dems and just as unserious.

What happened to Paulson 1.0? I guess we didn't deserve it. We elected these idiots an deserve them, too. Too bad about the children.

Captain Hate

What happened to Paulson 1.0? I guess we didn't deserve it. We elected these idiots an deserve them, too.

Yes we always get the government we deserve. When all the "conservatives" took a powder in 2006 to "send a message", it was typical boomer carp where they were completely immersed in self-love and how "principled" they were. Guess what, carpheads, this is what your faux-integrity has wrought. GFY

Barney Frank

Screw it, we are better off with a Depression than a government run by thugs.

What makes anyone think a depression will eliminate government thugs?
Because the first one worked out so well in that area?
We'll still have the thugs, what we won't have is money and jobs.

Barney Frank

They just let the stuff out on ACORN--bypassing the media if need be and just going with press conferences, email and IT blitzes, appearances on talk radio--every way possible--and say they will not llow the voters to be ripped off again by these crooks and vote thieves and until the Dems drop this there's no deal.

Are the Republicans capable of this?
I'm not sanguine about the prospects.

DebinNC

Are Dems following BO's "Get in their face" advice?

House and Senate GOP aides warned Saturday that Democrats threatened to blow up talks on a financial market rescue plan by sending in too many negotiators, particularly those with a political bent.

Although Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson asked each leader of the House and Senate to send only one envoy to the negotiating table, both House and Senate Democrats appear to be disregarding that.

At the beginning of what was billed as a crucial negotiating session Saturday afternoon, Democrats sent in five Senators and three House Members, compared with one representative each from the House and Senate Republicans. Paulson and a few other Treasury officials were also present.

Do they think the House Reps can be bullied into submission? Do they want the Reps to walk out and then claim they wouldn't participate?

Jane

I think we should start by all referring to this as the ACORN bail-out, followed by the ACORN mess. And I'm more than happy to start referring to one candidate as ACORN Obama.

Sue

The public is against this 50/24, according to Rasmussen. If the public knew about ACORN, I suspect you would have a revolution.

RichatUF

Deb-

You know I didn't realize how many big banks are HQ'ed in North Carolina. Learn something new every day. As to your question: The D's don't want a deal. Full Stop. This train wreck will put them in super-majority status for a generation-breaking eggs and omlets.

Double digit unemployment, weakened credibility abroad, and dictators launching wars because of our weakness is all gravy. At least Obama won't need to pass the Global Poverty Act after he gets elected because the Pelosi House will have done the heavy lifting for him.

jc

"But, hey, let's have a depression.
-- You want to rethink that?"

Posted by: sbw

No. I have been thinking for several days. My portfolio is getting drilled, too. Hell, Goldman Sachs is one of my largest holdings.

When I watched Paulson/Bernanke's testimony I was willing to go along with the bailout. I was thinking at the time that the government caused this mess (through CRA, lawsuits based on CRA, Fannie/Freddie, mark-to-market accounting, elimination of the uptick rule, etc.) and therefore government ought to clean up the mess it caused. I would still be good by that.

However, it has become clear that the scuzballs who aided/abetted (Dodd, Frank, Gorelick, Raines, J. Johnson, Obama, ACORN) are not sorry and in fact are pushing the envelope even further.

I am not just blowing smoke -- I know what I wrote and what it means. My parents explained their experiences during the Depression to me in vivid detail, and like many of the rest of you, I grew up in a 'waste is a sin' household because of my parents depression-era experiences. I know the stats, too. Yes, the great Depression lasted several years and ended with a world war and about 60 million dead. I get it. But I am not willing to let my fear result in turning the U.S. over to a bunch of thugs.

The time has come for honest citizens to stand up and be counted. Corruption may be inevitable in our system, but there are limits to how much I can tolerate.

Also, I have some hope. Please read the letter written by John Allison, President & CEO of BB&T, to every member of the US Congress entitled, "Key Points on “Rescue” Plan From A Healthy Bank’s Perspective".

http://scconservative.wordpress.com/2008/09/24/rescue-plan-from-a-healthy-banks-perspective/

His 14 points are insightful and clear.

Charlie (Colorado)

You are not getting the mood out there: People are sick and tired of being ripped off. They expect their investments to be stolen in any case and given to some no account.

Well, and maybe they'll get what they expect.

I've known people with acute appendicitis who just wanted a Demoral and a chance to sleep.

clarice

The WSJ and Businessweek have two rather optimistic pieces about progress on the overall package...including a portion of the insurance plan being accepted..I think there's a lot of hysteria and brinkmanship and I have no idea whythe WSJ and Lowry are getting such disparate reports.

Captain Hate

Are the Republicans capable of this?
I'm not sanguine about the prospects.

I'm not either but at some point you have to mark a line in the sand and say "enough". Any deal with ACORN in it doesn't address the underlying problem; in fact it guarantees it will resurface in the future with worse consequences. This isn't particle physics and can be understood by the majority of the voting public if explained coherently.

clarice

It's past time that we think we can ignore the rules of sound capital management to buy minority favor. It's like thinking you can suspend the law of gravity.

sbw

I think this is useful language:

Democratic language that postures to help "main street" instead funnels money to grass root community organizers shown in congressional hearings and court testimony to be partisan and corrupt.

Ann

Excellent, Jane!

You watch tomorrow's Sunday shows. Every Democrat will be saying "The Bush Bail-Out" and then the papers will be calling it "The Bush Bail-Out" and then Keith and Chrissy will be calling it the same until election day.

How do we fight this? If the Democrats let this fail it will then be "The Bush McCain Failure",
"The Bush McCain Fall Out", "The Bush McCain Depression"

DebinNC

RichardUF: "As to your question: The D's don't want a deal. Full Stop. This train wreck will put them in super-majority status for a generation-breaking eggs and omlets."

Words fail me...

MayBee

Screw it, we are better off with a Depression than a government run by thugs.

What makes anyone think a depression will eliminate government thugs?

Amen. As if countries with horrible finances are the least corrupt.

I want to ditto what someone said earlier about this happening in the health sector next. Remember Obama is promising inexpensive healthcare and proposes making insurance companies accept those that are already sick and haven't made payments.

M. Simon

Charlie,

The peasants are up in arms. They have lost confidence in the system. All your railing here is to no avail. When a stake holder like jc says he is ready to burn the house to get rid of the hyper-rats you know it is serious.

I don't give a damn myself. I am a survivor. What ever happens I'm going to deal with it. Like a good Navy man if I have to go down with the ship while trying to save it that is my duty.

I am ready to die. I have been for 45 years. Try that attitude. It is liberating. Attachment causes pain. All is sorrow. Pain is our lot in life. If you are really a Buddhist start living like one. Live free or die.

Charlie (Colorado)

Simon, a real Buddhist cares for the suffering of all sentient beings.

Don't presume to think you can instruct me on my relgion.

M. Simon

And freedom from attachment is the only way out of suffering. If you care then teach men to be free.

M. Simon

Well I'm a militant Buddhist. Never popular with "real Buddhists™". You know - armed non-violence. Willing to pull the trigger while never desiring to do so.

Chris

Jane's onto something. The ObamACORN bailout? I like it.

Charlie (Colorado)

Clarice, have a look at your email.

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