With God On Our Side

Sign me up for the Sarah Palin fan club.  Unlike a Dem poser at a candidates debate in 2004, our next Vice President knows her Lincoln and knows who is on whose side in wartime.  Here she is with Charles Gibson:

Sarah Palin on God:

GIBSON: You said recently, in your old church, "Our national leaders are sending U.S. soldiers on a task that is from God." Are we fighting a holy war?

PALIN:  You know, I don't know if that was my exact quote.

GIBSON:  Exact words.

PALIN: But the reference there is a repeat of Abraham Lincoln's words when he said -- first, he suggested never presume to know what God's will is, and I would never presume to know God's will or to speak God's words.

But what Abraham Lincoln had said, and that's a repeat in my comments, was let us not pray that God is on our side in a war or any other time, but let us pray that we are on God's side.

That's what that comment was all about, Charlie.

For non-link followers, the poser at the Dem debate was John Kerry; John Edwards actually nailed the Lincoln connection.  So there you go - on this topic anyway, Sarah Palin is at least as prepared for the Vice-Presidency as John Edwards.

I'll post the exchange and my snideries after the break.  [The Gateway Pundit has the accurate Palin quote which Gibson misrepresented:

"Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God," she exhorted the congregants. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

For folks with an actual nose for news, the question about expanding NATO to include Georgia and the Ukraine is interesting.  Presumably Ms. Palin is simply defending McCain's approach here (which is to expand NATO to include both), and Gibson asks the obvious follow-up:

GIBSON: And under the NATO treaty, wouldn't we then have to go to war if Russia went into Georgia?

PALIN: Perhaps so. I mean, that is the agreement when you are a NATO ally, is if another country is attacked, you're going to be expected to be called upon and help.

But NATO, I think, should include Ukraine, definitely, at this point and I think that we need to -- especially with new leadership coming in on January 20, being sworn on, on either ticket, we have got to make sure that we strengthen our allies, our ties with each one of those NATO members.

We have got to make sure that that is the group that can be counted upon to defend one another in a very dangerous world today.

GIBSON: And you think it would be worth it to the United States, Georgia is worth it to the United States to go to war if Russia were to invade.

PALIN: What I think is that smaller democratic countries that are invaded by a larger power is something for us to be vigilant against. We have got to be cognizant of what the consequences are if a larger power is able to take over smaller democratic countries.

And we have got to be vigilant. We have got to show the support, in this case, for Georgia. The support that we can show is economic sanctions perhaps against Russia, if this is what it leads to.

It doesn't have to lead to war and it doesn't have to lead, as I said, to a Cold War, but economic sanctions, diplomatic pressure, again, counting on our allies to help us do that in this mission of keeping our eye on Russia and Putin and some of his desire to control and to control much more than smaller democratic countries.

His mission, if it is to control energy supplies, also, coming from and through Russia, that's a dangerous position for our world to be in, if we were to allow that to happen.

Her "perhaps" was accurate and Gibson was wrong about the US incurring an obligation to go to war - that's odd, since Gibson had prepared the question.  I am not an authority on our NATO treaty obligations, but Article Five looks like the relevant paragraph:

Article 5

The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.            

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.

OK, that includes but does not require an armed response - I'll score one for Palin's briefers and smite the ABC News prep team.  Geez, maybe Palin is ready to be Vice President and maybe she's not, but is ABC qualified to interview Vice Presidents?

In the closing scramble of the Democratic candidates debate, John "Coin-toss" Kerry manages to come down on both sides what should have been an easy question from Elisabeth Bumiller of the NY Times:

BUMILLER: Really fast, on a Sunday morning, President Bush has said that freedom and fear have always been at war, and God is not neutral between them. He's made quite clear in his speeches that he feels God is on America's side.

Really quick, is God on America's side?

KERRY: Well, God will -- look, I think -- I believe in God, but I don't believe, the way President Bush does, in invoking it all the time in that way. I think it is -- we pray that God is on our side, and we pray hard. And God has been on our side through most of our existence.

Man, is this guy a long-time, big-time professional politician, or what?  Memo to Kerry staff:  The questions will get progressively more difficult; if your candidate is intent on having an authentic moment, let him shout something like "Yankees Suck!", and hope that Hillary! will help repair the damage.  However, if he really has doubts about God's positioning vis a vis the USA, he had best keep them to himself.

There is an easy answer to this question.  Johnny On the Spot Edwards had his hand up, and was called on immediately; George Bush has heard this before, from Edwards, and was paying attention; Ronald Reagan knew it, and folks familiar with wars other than Vietnam, such as the Civil War or WWII, also knew it.  Let's go to Senator Edwards:

BUMILLER: Senator?

EDWARDS: Well, there's a wonderful story about Abraham Lincoln during the middle of the Civil War bringing in a group of leaders, and at the end of the meeting one of the leaders said, "Mr. President, can we pray, can we please join in prayer that God is on our side?" And Abraham Lincoln's response was, "I won't join you in that prayer, but I'll join you in a prayer that we're on God's side."

Not a trick question.  But not easy, if you haven't thought about it.  We serve God's plan, not vice versa.

Comments

[M. Simon]

Dear ∅bama Supporters,

Keep up the good work!

You have increased McCain/Palin's Electoral vote count by 20 today.

What happens is that when you lie and get hysterical your candidates get branded as hysterical liars.

Thank you. As of right now it is MP 272. ∅B at 266. Do you think you could move MP to 300 by tomorrow? If you do a really good job you can get that up to 350 for MP by the end of next week. We appreciate your efforts.

[Mustang0302]

What do you think, did FDR justify the Normandy invasion on the basis of ""Theocracy"?

[Michael J Clarke]

The Normandy invasion was a reciprocal act after the whole of Europe had been overtaken by a megalomaniac psychopath who incited his nation to consider themselves to be the superhuman rulers who should be controlling the world. Sound familiar?
There is absolutely no comparison between FDR and GWB! However GWB and AH!

Hitler believed in Arthur de Gobineau's ideas of struggle for survival between the different races, among which the "Aryan race"—guided by "Providence"—was supposed to be the torchbearers of civilization. In Hitler's conception Jews were enemies of all civilization.

Hitler, despite his native Catholicism, favored aspects of Protestantism if they were more amenable to his own objectives. At the same time, he adopted some elements of the Catholic Church's hierarchical organization, liturgy and phraseology in his politics.(Wikipedia)

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

My Fellow Americans:

Last night, when I spoke with you about the fall of Rome, I knew at that moment that troops of the United States and our Allies were crossing the Channel in another and greater operation. It has come to pass with success thus far.

And so, in this poignant hour, I ask you to join with me in prayer:

Almighty God: Our sons, pride of our nation, this day have set upon a mighty endeavor, a struggle to preserve our Republic, our religion, and our civilization, and to set free a suffering humanity.

Lead them straight and true; give strength to their arms, stoutness to their hearts, steadfastness in their faith.

They will need Thy blessings. Their road will be long and hard. For the enemy is strong. He may hurl back our forces. Success may not come with rushing speed, but we shall return again and again; and we know that by Thy grace, and by the righteousness of our cause, our sons will triumph.

They will be sore tried, by night and by day, without rest -- until the victory is won. The darkness will be rent by noise and flame. Men's souls will be shaken with the violences of war.

For these men are lately drawn from the ways of peace. They fight not for the lust of conquest. They fight to end conquest. They fight to liberate. They fight to let justice arise, and tolerance and goodwill among all Thy people. They yearn but for the end of battle, for their return to the haven of home.

Some will never return. Embrace these, Father, and receive them, Thy heroic servants, into Thy kingdom.

And for us at home -- fathers, mothers, children, wives, sisters, and brothers of brave men overseas, whose thoughts and prayers are ever with them -- help us, Almighty God, to rededicate ourselves in renewed faith in Thee in this hour of great sacrifice.

Many people have urged that I call the nation into a single day of special prayer. But because the road is long and the desire is great, I ask that our people devote themselves in a continuance of prayer. As we rise to each new day, and again when each day is spent, let words of prayer be on our lips, invoking Thy help to our efforts.

Give us strength, too -- strength in our daily tasks, to redouble the contributions we make in the physical and the material support of our armed forces.

And let our hearts be stout, to wait out the long travail, to bear sorrows that may come, to impart our courage unto our sons wheresoever they may be.

And, O Lord, give us faith. Give us faith in Thee; faith in our sons; faith in each other; faith in our united crusade. Let not the keeness of our spirit ever be dulled. Let not the impacts of temporary events, of temporal matters of but fleeting moment -- let not these deter us in our unconquerable purpose.

With Thy blessing, we shall prevail over the unholy forces of our enemy. Help us to conquer the apostles of greed and racial arrogances. Lead us to the saving of our country, and with our sister nations into a world unity that will spell a sure peace -- a peace invulnerable to the schemings of unworthy men. And a peace that will let all of men live in freedom, reaping the just rewards of their honest toil.

Thy will be done, Almighty God.

Amen.

Franklin D. Roosevelt - June 6, 1944

[Michael J Clarke]

If there were a god, and after all the evil that had been done, it is not unreasonable to assume that he would have condoned the invasion. We are talking about an act which was en errand of mercy from the greatest evil ever to appear on the face of this planet.

[Mustang0302]

Any world leader who justifies his decisions on the basis of Theocracy is deluded and dangerous. In fact such a leader is unconstitutional in the United States. Thomas Jefferson would turn in his grave.
But is already guilty of an impeachable crime against humanity when he said that "God told him to invade Iraq."

Care to provide a cite for that Jefferson quote? (j/k).

OK, I'll play...care to provide a cite for that GWB quote?

[Topsecretk9]

A vote for McCain/Palin is a vote against the medai -- aka - put these fuckers out of a job

The Post Makes a Change [Kathryn Jean Lopez] The Standard's John McCormack e-mails:

Here is the new second graph:

The idea that the Iraqi government under Saddam Hussein helped al-Qaeda plan the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, a view once promoted by Bush administration officials, has since been rejected even by the president himself. But it is widely agreed that militants allied with al-Qaeda have taken root in Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion.

The original:

The idea that Iraq shared responsibility with al-Qaeda for the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, once promoted by Bush administration officials, has since been rejected even by the president himself. On any other day, Palin's statement would almost certainly have drawn a sharp rebuke from Democrats, but both parties had declared a halt to partisan activities to mark Thursday's anniversary."

Their column inches a shrinking, and so are their staff. More please.

[Mustang0302]

Michael,

The Normandy invasion was a reciprocal act after the whole of Europe had been overtaken by a megalomaniac psychopath who incited his nation to consider themselves to be the superhuman rulers who should be controlling the world. Sound familiar?

A reciprocal act for what...Pearl Harbor?

Hitler never attacked the United States.

Was Saddam Hussein a megalomaniacal pyschopath?

Do you think Abu Mazen justifies his decisions on the basis of "theocracy"?

Did you know Abu Mazen gives ol' Adolf a pass on "...all the evil that had been done..." during the Holocaust?

Is that who you want to trust for that GWB "quote"?

[Michael J Clarke]

Pearl Harbor was an event that America just sat back and waited for in order to push public opinion into sanctioning involvement. There were too many German sympathizers before that who prevented US coming to Britain's aid.
Something like pre-9/11 and Iraq?
Japan and Germany and Italy were allies, it would not have been possible to fight one of them alone.
Quote for Jefferson from Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org
/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

[Michael J Clarke]

Here is GWB Quote:
The Independent

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/bush-god-told-me-to-invade-iraq-509925.html

[Mustang0302]

So, FDR "LIHOP" huh? OK. You're one of those guys.

No cite for GWB's "theocratic" justification? I'm sure you don't see any parallels between GWB and FDR asking for God's blessings, and anyway FDR was evil for "LIHOP", right?

I don't think you're concerned with the right theocrats, old boy. If I thought as poorly of my country as you do, I'd leave.

[Mustang0302]

Mahmoud Abbas = Abu Mazen...

[PeterUK]

"Isn't she a sensation??"

Yes she is Tush Doctrine.Now grab your ankles for the Sheik.

[Michael J Clarke]

You get me wrong-I think pretty highly of my country, but it's not yours! I don't think much of yours, make me wrong by voting right!

[PeterUK]

"The Normandy invasion was a reciprocal act after the whole of Europe had been overtaken by a megalomaniac psychopath who incited his nation to consider themselves to be the superhuman rulers who should be controlling the world. Sound familiar?"

Yes the Soviet invasion and enslavement of Eastern Europe,China annexing Tibet, Saddam Hussein invading Kuwait to mention a few.

[bacaangel]

God is and always will be on the side of Peace & Truth! Republicans Hijacked 911, by Keith Olberman on 9/11! Courage to Speak Truth!

http://www.jedreport.com/2008/09/special-commen...

Never again should a President you want to have a beer with be allowed to lie the American public into a False & Phony war and ignore the real war as George W. Bush was able too! National Security strength, I don't think so, after all 911 happened on the Republicans' watch, but they distorted that message too and you would think that Democrats are weak on national security! Politicans who lie to the public are engaged in a betrayal of the public trust and such distortion should be deemed unethical and in some cases, criminal!

And, it is an outrage or should be that the government can give millions of dollars to CEO’s from the failed Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac and yet, cannot give a second stimulus check to American citizens in these hard economic times?

Republicans say No to a second stimulus while the Democrats say Yes to a second stimulus!

Is the Republican Congress working for CEO’s or are they working for you, the people?

[PeterUK]

Michael J Clarke,
Which is your country? Perhaps those here can point out the deficiencies.

[Mustang0302]

Michael,

Ah, the fog lifts! I should have known from your diligent study of our uniquely American civil liberties. Still waiting on the visa, huh? Ongoing oppression, suffering, and lack of opportunity at home? Perhaps some noisy, troublesome neighbors agitating for one thing or another?

Never fear...you can safely blame America for all of it, while admiring her from afar!

[M. Simon]

Uh,

Michael,

The US was at war with Germany in all but name. You might want to go and listen to Pete Seegar's "Reuben James" again - just for the sake of some history.

[Moptop]

Source for "God told me to invade Iraq"

"the former Palestinian foreign minister Nabil Shaath says Mr Bush told him and Mahmoud Abbas, former prime minister and now Palestinian President: "I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did"

This is it, this is your source? Hear say from former Palistinian officials unconfirmed, not made in public, and not corroborated anywhere?? These two guys? This is like the "Sambo beat the bitch" smear. It just doesn't sound like Bush, unless you believe the propaganda cartoon version served up by Comedy Central is the real thing.

Cripes, what color is the sky in your world?

[Moptop]

Didn't Keith Olberman get fired from his anchor job for being a partisan hack? Yeah, he did.

[Mustang0302]

Moptop,

Pretty sure Michael's just here practicing his English.

[kim]

Eh, Michael is just flaunting his alienation in the country of his birth. Hey, who led you down that path, sucker? Ayers's infiltration of your education?
=======================

[Sam Osborne]

Those that give Sarah Palin catchy quotes, to be use twist her words to express a favorable intent, might also give her the context I which the quoted phrase was said. Lincoln said “… my greatest concern is to be on God's side …” was made in response to a holier-than-thou cabinet member contending, like Palin, that the Union was fighting a task from God.

As for Lincoln:

Barak Obama has served as long as Abraham Lincoln did in the Illinois State Legislature, and now, as member of the Senate, Obama has tenure as long as Lincoln’s in the United States Congress.

Like Lincoln, Obama is a lawyer. Lincoln read for the law and Obama is an honored graduate of Columbia University and holder of a jurist doctorate from Harvard where he was also president of the Harvard Law Revue.

Both used their professional skills, Obama for four years in top law and research organizations in Manhattan and then into service in South Chicago as an effective community organizer helping people and a community devastated by the closing of steel mills. Lincoln used the time, prior to presidential nomination of his party, lawyering out in frontier America and educating from the stump in championship of the abolition of slavery.

Obama has served as a teaching fellow at the University of Chicago and authored two outstanding books, and like Lincoln, he possesses a remarkable capacity for oratorical inspiration. Both of these Americans put this skill and their outstanding organizational leadership to work in launching new and dynamic national movements within their parties. Their efforts set the nation on a course of change that more fully pursues the ever-emerging American dream for all of WE THE PEOPLE.

The downside of history finds John McCain’s campaign scrambling and scraping to cover a hasty and eleventh-hour decision on a person best suited to sit waiting a heartbeat away from fulfilling the duties of President of the United States and leader of the free world. In this, would McCain be willing to also twist the record to make his choice more qualified than was Abraham Lincoln?

[Mustang0302]

Lincoln was also reviled by the same kind of people who now revile GWB, JSMc, and SHP.

Who remembers the Copperheads or Clement Vallandingham today?

In a year, BHO will be IL's junior Senator, sporting a beard, about 40 extra pounds, and will be pitching his next book.

[Captain Hate]

Obama is an honored graduate of Columbia University

Really?? Got those transcripts, Sam?

Comparing Barry to Lincoln is pretty funny; you should send it to The Onion for a more appropriate forum. Not that I haven't laughed a lot at it though.

[Pofarmer]

Obama has served as a teaching fellow at the University of Chicago and authored two outstanding books, and like Lincoln, he possesses a remarkable capacity for oratorical inspiration. Both of these Americans put this skill and their outstanding organizational leadership to work in launching new and dynamic national movements within their parties. Their efforts set the nation on a course of change that more fully pursues the ever-emerging American dream for all of WE THE PEOPLE.

Wow, that's a whole lotta bullshit right there. Let me go get the tractor and spreader.

[Jane]

Unlike Lincoln Obama is a marxist.

[RichatUF]

test

[Porchlight]

The downside of history finds John McCain’s campaign scrambling and scraping

Scrambling and scraping and surging in the polls. Try again

[bad]

From The New Yorker:

Obama took at least one concrete step to turn this notion of the legislator as community organizer into a reality. In his first column in the Hyde Park Herald, the same one in which he addressed welfare, he announced that he was “organizing citizens’ committees” to help him shape legislation. He asked his constituents to call his office if they wanted to participate. That kind of airy talk about changing politics gave way almost immediately to the realities of the job. I asked a longtime Obama friend what ever became of the committees. “They never really got off the ground,” he said. By 2001, if there was any maxim from community organizing that Obama lived by, it was the Realpolitik commandment of Saul Alinsky, the founding practitioner of community organizing, to operate in “the world as it is and not as we would like it to be.”

Here is another example of community organization that didn't work. Obama quickly abandoned the idea, which is admirable. Yet he continues to demand respect for an activity whose principles he discarded as unworkable years ago. Perhaps his experience as a community organizer would garner more respect if he could honestly articulate the lessons learned.

[boris]

So Sarah, being more qualified than Obama, is comparably qualified to Abe Lincoln. Where Abe was the first Republican male president, Sarah will be the first Republican female president, after being the first Republican female vice president.

If he could Abe would vote for Sarah the Republican over Obama the crypto cipher friend of Jeremia Wright, assorted marxists, and domestic terrorists.

[Extraneus]

Wow, you guys had quite a night!

I think Sarah's performance, as opposed to the meltdown they were praying for, has the left in a cold-sweat state of absolute panic. They're realizing they're not going to be able to Bork her out of the race, and that the more they slime, the higher her positives go.

They're mostly afraid she'll be the president someday, and the real beauty of it is that they're helping her get there.

[Michael J Clarke]

I am not practicing my English, it's my native tongue! My native country is England, my adopted country Iceland.

Hence my more informed knowledge of world affairs-sorry my American friends.

[bad]

...my more informed knowledge of world affairs-sorry

Yes Indeed!! But you can work on that and do better in the future. The key is to keep trying.

[Mustang0302]

bad,

I don't think BHO's ever completely abandoned Alinsky's tactics. He thinks he's SMARTER than Alinsky, smooth, resonant, personable...he's trying to improve upon the Rules for Radicals, by becoming the charismatic "One"-type leader that Alinsky was dead set against.

He thinks he can scale Alinsky's threadbare neighborhood rabble-rousing up to the Presidential level...in fact he's absolutely convinced that he's just the man to pull it off.

Or, at least he was. I bet reality's setting in with a vengeance lately.

[kim]

Sam, I knew Abe Lincoln, and Obama is no Abe Lincoln.
=================================

[kim]

Well, I misinterpreted Michael's alienation. Hey, buddy, better move back. My knowledge of world affairs says the globe is cooling.
=====================================

[Porchlight]

They're realizing they're not going to be able to Bork her out of the race

Extraneus, didn't Biden preside over the original Borking? It is not difficult to imagine him holding forth in campaign strategy meetings about the best way to slime Palin into oblivion.

Jane remarked awhile back that Biden was one of the few political enemies that Clarence Thomas mentioned by name in his memoir. That passage in the book is quite instructive.

[bad]

Mustang

I guess I was unclear in my excerpt and comments.

I was trying to make the point that he abandoned community organization as ineffective and quickly applied Alinsky's tactics to move on to something different. But Obama continues to point to failed ventures as experience qualifying him to be POTUS without admitting the failures or lessons learned.

[Barney Frank]

Hence my more informed knowledge of world affairs-

Americans are the most informed folks about world affairs you'll find, primarily because we have to go about cleaning up the messes left by clueless Euro knotheads.

[Mustang0302]

bad - Bingo.

[boris]

Pearl Harbor was an event that America just sat back and waited for

This from the moron who claims ...

my more informed knowledge of world affairs

Ha, what a dud.

S o o o o o ... the US had to wait for Japan to attack BECAUSE there were too many German (NAZI?) sympathizers in the government ??? Some FUBAR logic you got going on there old sport.

The canard about letting Pearl Harbor happen so FDR could declare war makes no sense. If that had been the plan, assuming the saintly FDR was actually Satan, the US would have better defended their ability to wage war in the Pacific instead of letting it sink to the bottom of the sea, and used the less successful attack by Japan as the excuse for war. But that's just me trying to be logical I guess.

[Captain Hate]

I am not practicing my English, it's my native tongue! My native country is England, my adopted country Iceland.

In other words you've never tasted decent food in your life which explains why you're such an annoying douche.

[Extraneus]

...didn't Biden preside over the original Borking?

Wouldn't you bet this is why they look up to such a doofus?

[Jane]

They're realizing they're not going to be able to Bork her out of the race

As Porchlight suggested, Biden is the prince of Borking, and he certainly won't hesitate now. I have no doubt those attempts are going on in the background.

What is different now, and hopefully will carry the day - Biden is a candidate not a committee chair. So he can be borked too.

[Pagar]

Bad, I put some (Possible) more names for the CAC on the last Ayers thread.

[bad]

Thanks Pagar

[bad]

So he can be borked too.

The possibilities here are endless.

[Pagar]

"Politicans who lie to the public are engaged in a betrayal of the public trust and such distortion should be deemed unethical and in some cases, criminal!"

This quote describes Obama better than any I have seen. Has he ever uttered a truthful word? When will we find out his real name?
I think one can find enough lies and fraud in his life and campaign to completely end his run for the presidency or any other elected position.

[open your eyes]

"Allow the president to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such a purpose - and you allow him to make war at pleasure."

-Abraham Lincoln

[nlcatter]

1 Campaign rhetoric - when biden said not ready which he has already explained but are too %^&*( dumb to realize.

2 Gibson even gave Her leeway based Lincoln quote.

3 Palin did not EVEN know the Bush doctrine - but supports Preemptive strikes againsg cuntries t hat did not attack us and to go it alone without world support which is CONTINUING BUsh policies!

[bad]

CONTINUING BUsh policies

You might be surprised by the number of undecideds who are quite content to see a continuation of Bush policies. By all means, keep flogging that pony.

[Moptop]

"England, my adopted country Iceland.

Hence my more informed knowledge of world affairs-sorry my American friends." Michael C. Clark

Funny thing was, when actually tested on this article of faith among the Brits, their claim appears unfounded.

"British anti-Americanism 'based on misconceptions'

British attitudes towards the United States are governed by ignorance of the facts on key issues such as crime, health care and foreign policy, according to a new survey."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2575395/British-anti-Americanism-based-on-misconceptions.html

Read the article for lots of examples.

[kim]

Open your eyes, that quote is relatively senseless without context. The founders gave the legislators the power to declare war and the executive the power to make war precisely because it is a Hell of a lot easier to get into a war than to get out of one.
=======================================

[Michael J. Clarke]

For anyone interested, FDP´s policy in waiting for an excuse to go into WWII is detailed here:

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/20/001.html

The Roosevelt strategy of forcing Japan to become the "aggressor" is revealed unmistakably in that section of the report which relates to messages between the War Department and the Hawaiian Command in the last days before Japan struck. On November 27, 1941, 10 days before the attack on Pearl Harbor, the Chief of Staff radioed General Short as follows:

Negotiations with Japanese appear to be terminated to all practical purposes with only the barest possibilities that the Japanese Government might come back and offer to continue. Japanese future action unpredictable but hostile action possible at any moment. If hostilities cannot, repeat cannot, be avoided, the U.S. desires that Japan commit the first overt act.

Anyone who thinks that I envy the US on health care must be mad. Bee there, done that, the system is crap.
British food is mostly terrible, but Icelandic is wonderful and healthy!

[Michael J. Clarke]

Just a bit extra here from your own Bill Maher:

on Palin:

"We have retrogressed. That is not progress, that is going in the opposite direction from a country that was founded very specifically on the idea of separation of church and state," he said.

"The founding fathers were very, very clear on that."

http://tiff2008.sympatico.msn.ca/interviews/default.aspx?cp-documentid=615882

Just in case you thought thta I was the only one with this view.

[Michael J. Clarke]

sorry about spelling, just got up.

[kim]

It seems that Palin's churches stick better to keeping religion out of public policy than Obama's did. Of these two people, apparently both in contention for President, I'd rather be governed executively by Palin. I've the feeling she'd stay the Hell out of my life better than Obama would.
====================================

[Michael J. Clarke]

Don't agree. Palin is pursuing a policy of keeping her church activities out of view in the run up to the election. mainly to try not to frighten the less extremist religious voters away, but I suspect that her pentecostalism will rear its head quickly after being elected. At least Obama is being more open.

[kim]

Obama is hiding his religious convictions and Palin is not. Furthermore, how did she let her spirituality impact her governing. We have experience with how Palin will keep church and state separated but we do not have that with Obama.

And what gave you the idea she's Pentacostal?

Informed? Not evident so far.
=================================

[kim]

You seem to confuse 'suspicious' with 'informed'.
==============================

[kim]

Obama spent 20 years in Wright's church, whose theology is 'Black Liberation'. You don't get much more fuzzing up of the boundary between church and state than that.

But stick around; you might end up informed. So far, you've just absorbed the paranoia of the leftist media.
===============================

[kim]

Obama open? Ooh, there you give away how uniformed you are. His past is a closed book, except for the two exercises in fantasy he has published about himself.
=================================

[kim]

It's an easy train ride from Morningside Heights to Atlantic Avenue. Heh, figure that one out, sucker.
=================================

[kim]

Back in the day was his theme song 'Take the A Train'? Somebody knows, but not the press and not the American people. Maybe you can inform us about this matter of great international importance. Ask around; you might find us a clue. Check under your dinner plate, or ask your waitress.
========================================

[Michael J. Clarke]

Evidence of Palin´s Pentecostalism

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94332540

Poloma has listened to the tape of the governor's Assembly of God address and says of Palin's faith: "It seems to me that she's the real McCoy."

Poloma says faith in divine revelation, prophecy and an outpouring of the Holy Spirit are hallmarks of the Pentecostal faith.

Not that I am any more interested in Obama's faith as I prefer people in important positions to be atheists like me.

[Michael J. Clarke]

I expected the word "leftist" to come in sooner or later-perhaps you might sustitute the word "infidel" in future as it is more accurate. Leftist media is what almost all Europe is saying, and holding its breath. Obama would not get elected in Europe, certainly not in Scandinavia. But the americans have never had any real choice anyway, have they? Oh the land of the free!, the joys of democracy. Just we invented it here.

[Mustang0302]

Michael: "ZOMG! radical christians! EEEK!

Wake me up when they try to establish a national religion and compel folks to worship.

Or when Christians start strapping on bomb belts and sawing people's heads off after denying them abortions.

P.S. - Maher was abused...it warped him. What's your excuse?

[Michael J. Clarke]

Salem-it just happened a while ago

My excuse-I don't need one.

Maher-whatever it takes to make people see sense.

Christian-used to be one, then I grew up.

[kim]

Your link doesn't work, but the NPR is sadly biased. No wonder you are misinformed.

I'm under the impression she left the Pentecostal Church.

Sorry, James Otis, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison among many others invented the most effective form of democracy extant. The English gave them many ideas to avoid, as well as some to adopt.
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[Michael J. Clarke]

Silence! I KILL YOU

[kim]

Hah, atheism, the ignorant faith. It takes just as much faith to believe in the non-existence of God as it does to believe in God's existence.
====================================

[kim]

Cheers and noisy applause; I disdain your arrogant belief system. How do know there is no God?
====================================

[kim]

Uh, how do you KNOW there is no God?
==========================

[Mustang0302]

Tell us, Michael...did you flee Londonistan in fear?

[kim]

Please inform how the meaning of 'leftist' and 'infidel' match or contrast in your mind? I suspect you are claiming to be an infidel rather than a leftist, and if so, you can still be an infidel misinformed by leftist propaganda. Coherency beats silence, most days.
=================================

[kim]

Oh, Icelandic democracy. Yeah, good for a small homogeneous community. Besides, the Swiss have precedence.
===================================

[kim]

Would care to expose the tunnels and meanders of your mind by explication of your comment 'But the Americans have never had any real choice, anyway, have they'? Who, in your dark regions, is making choices for them?
==============================

[Mustang0302]

Hey, Michael-

What's the official state religion of the U.S.? (flogging moonbats doesn't count)

What's the official state religion of Iceland?

How can you stand the oppression?

Where will you flee to next to escape the evil theocrats?

[Michael J. Clarke]

kim-not faith-guts. Took me a while to not believe in Santa
No-Icelandic parliament oldest in the world.
Because we are small doesn't mean there is anything wrong with our system. Of course everything is so BIG in USA.
Mustang0302-ok I'll admit that we have a state religion, and would be the first to cheer if they got rid of it.
kim-"Who, in your dark regions, is making choices for them?"-Big Business-didn't you know.
There is no way for a candidate without millions of dollars behind him to get nominated. Both political parties are right wing. Independent candidates who are not millionaires don't stand a chance. This is not democracy, it is lukracity.
"Infidel" is a term commonly used by Islamists for everyone who doesn't believe in their god.
Kinda like Americans attitude to "leftists"

There is no oppression in Iceland. But I'd like to get rid of the right wing politics that put us on the "list of the willing."

[Michael J. Clarke]

"If Sarah Palin and John McCain win this November, she'd surpass John Ashcroft in terms of being the nation's most famous Pentecostal. She is a member of the Assemblies of God, one of the country's fastest-growing religious groups along with the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons and Roman Catholics."

Washington Times, 29 august 2008
kim-Icelandic parliament
"The Alþingi,is the national parliament—literally, “(the) all-thing”—of Iceland. It was founded in 930 at Þingvellir,"-Wikipedia

[Mustang0302]

Michael,

What terrifies you more, not knowing or being wrong?

[Michael J. Clarke]

I'm only terrified of people like you!
Becuase you are so sure you are right-and right is wrong.

[kim]

Yeah, and the King of Denmark sent assassins to knock off Iceland's leaders when the urge struck him. Some democracy.
================================

[Mustang0302]

Michael, I'm not sure I'm right, I have faith. I'm no threat to you, and I haven't mocked your country or its traditions.

That's what you've been doing to mine.

Thanks for all the fish, I'll pray for you!

[kim]

Oh, yeah, the evils of Corporatism. Next you'll be calling it fascist. Oh, boy, you've labeled yourself.
================================

[Mustang0302]

Michael and people like him are why Europe will be under sharia law within 20 years.

[Mustang0302]

Except the U.K., of course...they'll wake up and fight back.

Maybe they'll take Michael back...but of course, they have a STATE RELIGION, too.

Tsk,tsk.

[DobsonR]

This Michael is a fool.

Sarah was a baptized Catholic. She has her Catholic roots.

All evangelicals and post-reformation churches came from the Roman Catholic Church. Half of their beliefs are consistent with each other, particularly the principle of "what is right and what is wrong".

[ChristianConservatives]

Many of these people are fool. The forefathers of Christianity and now the Roman Catholic Church really believe in the pouring of the HOLY SPIRIT.

Pentecost is the Day of the Pouring of the Holy Spirit to the disciples.

Holy Spirit is within the hearts and minds of real Christians. It tells us how to serve God properly and reminds us all time to do the good works of the Lord. To the Catholics, the Holy Spirit directly talks to the Pope.

WE SHOULD ALL PRAY TO HAVE HOLY SPIRIT IN OUR HEART. HE WILL PUT US INTO THE RIGHT DIRECTION TOWARDS GOD.

Now, if your religion is Atheism (that includes Christians but do not sincerely belief in the real power of Christ), then stop trashing our religion.

[Michael J. Clarke]

All you people have asked for references to my comments, I have given them to you.

No-one answered the fact that I proved that Palin is a pentecostalist. That fact remains.
I am not islam, yet you almost call me one.

Christian faith and ethics, particularly the American baptist version
will not save anyone from anything, and to those of you that think that may prevent the insugence of Islam into Europe-Nonsense.

Iceland still has the oldest parliament in the world, you have to concede that.

And American politics unfortunately have a habit of influencing the whole of the rest of the world, particularly when misguided non-democratically elected Theocrats decide to invade a sovereign country and manufacture a pack of lies to justify their case.

Read Dawkins-morality and ethics were not invented by any religion, nor by any God.

[Cecil Turner]

All you people have asked for references to my comments . . .

Uh, no, actually few are interested. And it might behoove you to use your "more informed knowledge of world affairs" to evaluate this: how would you respond to a US know-it-all who insisted you should vote a certain way in an (Icelandic/Irish/whatever) election? Now try to figure if this haranguing is a good idea or perhaps somewhat misguided. Most of us dumb yokels figured the answer a while back.

[Michael J. Clarke]

You see what we might vote in Iceland doesn't shatter the world order exactly, what you do could.

We don't exactly want to be blown to smithereens by a nuclear war started by some idiot that thought a god was telling him something. And as to the references, you don't want to know when you hear the truth, do you, it hurts:;

[Mustang0302]

Michael beclowned himself railing against Palin's various transgressions against "separation of church and state" in America while submissively bearing the oppression and shackles of official state religion in both his native and adopted lands.

To say nothing of quoting Bill Maher.

[Cecil Turner]

You see what we might vote in Iceland doesn't shatter the world order exactly, what you do could.

Yeah, I think we understand your concern. It's your counterproductive actions that are a bit hard to figure.

I don't think a lot of people will vote contrarian just to irritate people like you . . . but I could certainly understand the temptation. Cheers.

[Mustang0302]

Michael:

Who guarantees the current and future sovereignty of Iceland and its ancient parliament?

The Icelandic Coast Guard?

Norway?

NATO?

No thanks necessary, and you have our number when you need it.

[Mustang0302]

Michael:

No one almost called you "an islam".

I nailed you as one of their useful idiots.

[Michael J. Clarke]

Who guarantees the current and future sovereignty of Iceland and its ancient parliament?-International law?

The Americans thought they were doing this for fifty years, but they just left.

Guess what-nobody invaded yet!

And how can anything that I have said here be any use to Islam?

That implies that right-wing Christianity is keeping Islam away!
It is encouraging it.
Al-quaida didn't exist in iraq until after the invasion.
In fact it din't exist until Bush!

[Mustang0302]

Michael;

Who enforces international law?

Why did the U.S. leave Keflavik?

You are obsessively worried about an American Vice Presidential candidate's religious views, while ignoring those of the top candidate of her opposing party, the widely demonstrated aims of radical islam around the world, and your own apparently harmless submission to not one but two officially established state religions.

Your fears are unfounded. Your priorities are out of whack. I doubt your sincerity.

I think you are a fool...but a completely harmless one.