Bill Ayers, Yet Again

WSJ columnist Thomas Frank defends Bill Ayers.  Ann Althouse attacks.

Comments

[clarice]

Bless, Ann , for not falling for this doo doo.

[clarice]

I suppose we could become radicals and support Ayers and Dohrn's vision of simply killing one's political opponents and scaring their friends and allies into submission by terrorist tactics---just so he could finally see our point about what a rotten, anti-democratic way to resolve political differences that is.

[sbw]

How clearly must one state the case?

Barack Obama's executive experience is the issue -- Bill Ayers scammed Chicago children using Barack Obama as his executive tool.

[MayBee]

As I've mentioned here before, I know a woman that killed her husband.
I knew her before she began the affair that motivated her to do it.
I knew her while she quietly planned the murder. She was not a dear friend, but I saw her several times a month and I liked her very much. She was funny, hip, engaging. She was a good mom, a community leader, she worked for childrens causes, and she was charming.
The last time I saw her, we were laughing together while we volunteered at a charitable event for children.

I had no idea that the day before, she had gone to have a prescription filled which she would later use to sedate her husband. Whom she talked about lovingly.
I never saw her after the murder, but I had friends who did.

I can tell you when you like someone who does heinous things, your mind races to make it ok for them to have done it. You need to make it ok for *you* to have liked him or her.
This article tells us about Franks not about Ayres. Franks needs to make it everyone else's fault that Ayres seems bad, because he- Franks- is not the kind of person that would like someone who enjoyed being violent.
Franks needs to believe Ayres is sorry, that he did things for good reason, that people don't understand Ayres, because Franks needs to believe that he would never, ever, really like someone who did something horrible just because he wanted to, and isn't sorry for it.
We project what we want to believe onto these people into whose minds we just cannot see.

[bgates]

Had a chat this morning with a Dem friend, and brought up the subject of Ayers. She agreed that it's very important to consider the kinds of people a candidate would bring in to the executive branch, and that is why just as Obama's association with Ayers is troublesome, so is McCain's choice of Palin.

Who is divisive.

[clarice]

So Palin is going to bomb rival hockey teams? What? I'm having trouble seeing the equivalence, bgates..and what exactly is she divisive on? Moral vs immoral behavior? Beats me.

[mark l.]

In a parallel universe,

a right wing dominated media finished making the case that obama was the product of bill ayers the king maker, immediately after his nomination.

he gave him high profile jobs, introduced him to the intelligensi of chicago to start his politcal career, and quite possibly wrote at least one of his autobiographies...

(seriously-who takes it upon themselves to write TWO autobiographies, before the have even 'arrived'?)

Yes, obama has 'distanced' himself from Ayers, but how can one really distance themself, after they have enjoyed the fruits of their 'friendship'.

WHY WOULD AYERS GIVE SO MUCH HELP TO A GUY WHO DISAGREES WITH HIM?

obama was the closest thing to a puppet that he could find.

[bad]

Don't forget racist BGates...

[bgates]

Just saw a headline on Yahoo, "driver earning $10 an hour could have won Nobel".

It's not about Mike Klonsky.

[kim]

bgates, that case is nicely discussed at 'Watts Up With That' under the thread entitled 'Is Global Warming Starving Science'.
===================================

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

I've seen Frank interviewed on C-Span. He's the poster boy for the Ignorance is Bliss movement.

[rhodeymark]

bgates - your friend is more lefty than Dem. I'm curious if she would think Cynthia McKinney is divisive.
(My wife is a Hillary Dem and she thinks Palin is great).

[bgates]

Clarice - my friend was bothered that Palin says she's unapologetic. I found the terrifying full quote on Obama's site:

“But even more important is that world view that I share with John McCain. That world view that says that America is a nation of exceptionalism. And we are to be that shining city on a hill, as President Reagan so beautifully said, that we are a beacon of hope and that we are unapologetic here. We are not perfect as a nation. But together, we represent a perfect ideal. And that is democracy and tolerance and freedom and equal rights. Those things that we stand for that can be put to good use as a force for good in this world. John McCain and I share that.”

She thinks what America has to apologize for is Iraq, and (not Darfur). "Unapologetic" signals arrogance to my friend, so to avoid that arrogance she will vote for Obama/Biden, aka "Humble and Humbler".

[Antimedia]

"Don't forget racist BGates..."

Please continue to call us racists. Because we really don't give a shit any more. Call us anything you like. We aren't listening.

You HAVE heard of the boy who cried wolf, right?

[Pofarmer]

and that is why just as Obama's association with Ayers is troublesome, so is McCain's choice of Palin.

I'd like to hear her reasoning on that. The problem is that the MSM shapes the debate.

[bgates]

your friend is more lefty than Dem
Is there a meaningful difference any more?

[clarice]

I can't find that though I see a 106 year old nun living in Rome who last voted for Ike voted for Obama.

[Pofarmer]

She thinks what America has to apologize for is Iraq,

Ah, you beat me to it.

How low is the person's IQ?

[sbw]

You know what's wrong with journalism today?

No pounce.

When someone wants to "distance" himself from something -- journalists should pounce.

When someone says something is "divisive" -- journalists should pounce.

When this week's plan overruns the one from last week -- journalists should pounce.

When double standards appear -- journalists should pounce.

When the numbers don't add up -- journalists should pounce.

When the meaning of is matters -- journalists should pounce.

When strawmen get set up -- journalists should pounce.

There is no pounce. There are no journalists.

Citizens should blow the whistle when they see no pounce. If they don't know enough to call the foul, schooling drained their pounce.

[Pofarmer]

We gave a totalitarian dictatorship a chance at democracy, and we're supposed to apologize for that? To whom?

[Pofarmer]

And why should Palin apologize for any of that, anyway? She wasn't the one making the decisions. Too much Dickwad Durbin.

[mark l.]

his door has Mumia Abu-Jamal, a convicted cop killer, and Che Guevara-

“Message to the Tricontinental”: “hatred as an element of struggle; unbending hatred for the enemy, which pushes a human being beyond his natural limitations, making him into an effective, violent, selective, and cold-blooded killing machine.”

Ayers is sorry that he didn't do more, after blowing up federal buildings buildings, even now.

If ayers would simply recant, all his defenders would have an argument, but ayers will never recant.

he is proud of being violent in the name of his own beliefs. note: he justifies his actions in his own mind, where at least even religious fanatics and zealots must twist their foundational beliefs.

This guy isn't bound by any religion, just the crap his addled mind can justify.

absolute piece of sh*t.

[MayBee]

excellent observation, sbw.

[Captain Hate]

She thinks what America has to apologize for is Iraq

What did this simpleton think when she saw all the people (a percentage of the population that should make us embarrassed at all the ****ing deadbeats in our midst)in Iraq voting? That this was a normal thing under Hussein?

Bring back literacy tests for voting.

[bgates]

How low is the person's IQ?
Now, now. I'm trying to win converts here, and even if I don't I still like her. I find her judgment more suspect, but I can't write off every Obama supporter who uses indefensible, crude moral equivalence.

What did this simpleton think
Honestly, we give prospective trolls more of a chance than this. She's a well-intentioned friend of mine, and I brought it up for suggestions on convincing her, not as the subject of today's two minute hate.

[sbw]

bgates: that is why just as Obama's association with Ayers is troublesome, so is McCain's choice of Palin.

So, bgates, resetting the give-me-a-break meter long enough to attempt an answer...

Your Dem friend appears to have no yardstick by which to measure behavior. It seems to be a nasty case -- and not unusual in Dems -- of moral relativism. But moral relativism isn't the disease. It is the symptom.

The disease is laziness. Brains, by their nature, are lazy. Each half of the brain doesn't say, "Oh! Let me think about that!" Nope. It says, "I can't be bothered. I'll leave it to the other half." But suppose the other half says that it can't be bothered either. Welcome to the fog.

So as soon as moral equivalence rears its head, warning flags should fly. The brain will have cheated the individual out of actually working through to an answer.

So tell your Dem friend to go back to work. Demand that they understand the differences between Ayers and Palin and be able to report on them.

bgates, don't let them foist their work on you. They are the ones who need the exercise.

[rhodeymark]

Your friend is more lefty than Dem...
"Is there a meaningful difference any more?"

I think so, even here in New England where the brain dead are habitually elected. Many folks are just conditioned generationally, but when the scales drop from their eyes they are more than ready to go PUMA on Zero. My wife was an addict for NBC News & Today, but now more and more I find her talking back to the talking points, and expressing her disappointment. She talks facts to Dem co-workers, etc. ("Nobody there is voting for Obama now"). Real Dems don't like finding out they are being lied to by their own side anymore than we do.

[rhodeymark]

bgates - ask her if she knows who Raila Odinga is? Then show her/point her to the uk.youtube of "Obama & Odinga"

[JBS]

bgates, ask your friend what she thinks about Obama's refusal to apologize for his vote against the Surge. Or his vote against funding our troops. Or his comment about our military just bombing civilians in Afganistan. Or his relationship with a domestic terrorist William Ayers. All that contrasted against Palin who refuses to apologize for recognizing the greatness of this country.

[Captain Hate]

My wife was an addict for NBC News & Today, but now more and more I find her talking back to the talking points, and expressing her disappointment.

How did that happen? Mrs. Hate has been a Today Show addict for years and there's not a damn thing I can do to get her to vote like an intelligent adult. Maybe that I respond to her like I did to bgates' friend is part of the problem.

[PeterUK]

"How low is the person's IQ?"

So low it is just Q,a lowQ

[Angellight]

Why is McCain being Deceitful about the fact that William Ayers' educational foundation was funded by Republicans, not Democrats, Republicans, who are now endorsing him?

The Annenbergs who are Republicans, Bankrolled William Ayers with $50 million dollars. However, Walter and Leonore Annenberg weren’t just giving money to the educational foundation started by William Ayers, they were also giving hundreds of thousands of dollars to the Republican National Committee and various other Republican groups, as well as to a whole host of Republican candidates, including the following:

George W. Bush $4000 - Mitt Romney $5000
Strom Thurmond $1000 - Fred Thompson $500
Rick Santorum $3000

There are questions that are not being asked or answered such as --why would billionaire Republican philanthropists give millions of dollars to a program that was started by William Ayers, if he is such a scary figure and unrepentant? Why would George W., Mitt Romney, Fred Thompson and all those other Republicans accept money from the people who were funding this William Ayers-associated group? And, why won’t McCain discuss these connections between the Republican Party and Ayers?"

Recently, McCain campaign put out a press release bragging about the fact that Leonore Annenberg has endorsed him for president. The very Leonore Annenberg who bankrolled William Ayers with millions of dollars is now backing McCain!

Lastly, Republican Arnold Weber who served on the board of the CAC with Barack, who worked with William Ayers in the 90’s, has also donated at least $1000 to the McCain campaign. So you see, McCain is accepting money from associates of William Ayers, and so far has not given the money back. Why won't McCain come clean about these facts? Why is he being deceitful about this?

http://www.republicansforobama.org/?q=node/3027

[Captain Hate]

Go away Axellight.

[Publius]

sbw:

Thank You!! Your response to bgates could not have been stated with greater clarity. It is what I have been trying to tell my dim friend. His fog is a result of mental laziness. You have done us all a great service.

[clarice]

Dear, angel--the Annenberg family had as much to do with giving the money to Ayers to indoctrinate children as Henry Ford had to do with funding the anti-Semitic, anti-American Durbin conference.

These folks set up the foundations and leave them alone--often sad to say they devolve to the control of left wing nutters as the Annenberg , Ford, Rockefeller, Packard and Heinz money has .
Tell Axelrod you're good enough for talk show blather but too stupid for JOM.

[Jane]

Tell Axelrod you're good enough for talk show blather but too stupid for JOM.

In case she didn't hear you.

[bgates]

Maybe that I respond to her like I did to bgates' friend is part of the problem.
Your wife? Dude. Happy warrior.

moral relativism isn't the disease. It is the symptom.
That's an interesting perspective. I just dismissed her equivalence, which was a mistake; next time I shall demand she defend it, or admit it's indefensible.

ask your friend what she thinks about...
First I need to get her to see what is really going on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

She talks facts to Dem co-workers, etc. ("Nobody there is voting for Obama now").
Kick ass. How did that happen?

[sbw]

Publius, thanks for the nod. bgates, thanks for insisting we answer the question.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

bgates: perhaps if you would stop treating her like a recalcitrant child, you'd have better luck. And being "dismissive" to a woman is a death knell, although not quite as bad as calling one "silly."

[bgates]

Oh, fuck off, Sara.

[jb]

"But we are also going to have to, I believe, engage in tough direct diplomacy with Iran and this is a major difference I have with Senator McCain."
That’s a quote of Obama from the first debate responding to the no preconditions line of argument from McCain. By now, McCain has already made the point about no preconditions and now he must move beyond it while reminding people of it. Obama’s pledge to talk tough presents a great opening for McCain to confront Obama on Ayers. And he need to get Obama to talk about Ayers. The press won’t ask Obama to comment meaningfully about Ayers, so McCain has to do so, but not in a way that simply accuses Obama of being associated with Ayers. He needs to make it relevant to something else, something important. At the debate during a segment on foreign policy, he should bring up Obama's pledge to talk tough to Iran when he sits down the leader of the number one State sponsor of terrorists. Make the point that if he can’t talk tough to a domestic terrorist Bill Ayers, how’s he going to confront the terrorists in Iran. Something like:
Senator Obama says he will sit down with the leader of Iran, Amadinajab, without preconditions. I believe that would be an unprecedented diplomatic capitulation by the United States. In our first debate he responded, by claiming he believed in “tough direct diplomacy” with Iran. That’s right direct diplomacy with the world's number one sponsor of terrorism worldwide. But he says he’d talk tough. Really?
What has he ever done to make us believe that. Well before we take your word for it Senator Obama, we know you’ve already sat down with a domestic terrorist, William Ayers. A man whose group is proud of bombing the Pentagon and our Capital and our military and of killing police officers. And Senator Obama sat down with Ayers in Ayers own living room to launch your political career. He sat with him on the board of the Woods project in Chicago as recently as 1999. So Senator Obama when you sat with William Ayers, an unrepentant terrorist, tell us about how you confronted him on his terrorist past. Tell us how you talked tough to Bill Ayers.

[Old Dad]

I must confess that I hate William Ayers, and his wife, and all his Weather scum colleagues. Here's why.

My son in-law is a Lance Corporal in the USMC, now in reserve. He served in Iraq last year. Shortly before he deployed, his Company celebrated the birthday of the Corps in the traditional way. The Marines wore their dress blues. Their dates were dressed to the nines.

When I contemplate what that son of a bitch Ayers had in mind for a similar occasion at Fort Dix, I'm sorry, but I hate him. To think that he would have murdered those wonderful kids and their dates with a nail bomb.

Not only would I never serve in any respect with that bastard, I would never knowingly be in the same room with him except to spit in his face, and kick his terrorist ass.

[Ann]

Old Dad,

Would you stand in for McCain this evening at the debate.

God Bless your family.

[rhodeymark]

"Kick ass. How did that happen?"

Because I sit down, compose myself, and then send out bcc: link filled emails to all my co-workers and family at least once a week. Mostly all Dems. I point them to the YouTube of the '94 House hearings where Clay threatened violence to Falcone of OFHEO. The blood curdling story of Odinga and the church massacre. The helicopter photos of Obama's District. They saw the Obama Regiment boys from me a week before it broke on Drudge. TSK9's story about 88 3rd St being corruption/socialist central (with the links in place). Bill Ayers own website with the comments in Venezuela, with a link to Steve Diamond's site (always make sure to point out when the author is a liberal). Obama's secret scrapbook at Doug Ross' site. I do this because I care. And I send it to my wife as well, and then she forwards it to more extended family and her co-workers. The truth is our weapon. Even my friend who is a MoveOn subscriber no longer taunts me back with polls.

[rhodeymark]

I basically make them afraid of socialism, then show them the fear is justified in this case. Chris Buckley is a tool.

[bad]

Old Dad, thank you for your service and that of your family. You are in the prayers of too many to count.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Oh, fuck off, Sara.

Ooooh, hit a nerve did I, bgates?

[sylvia]

Now that the MSM is having a hard time squelching the story that there were links between Ayers and BHO and can't really deny that anymore, they instead are trying to make it seem that, awwww, poor Bill Ayers isn't all that bad.

[rhodeymark]

Yeah - poor Bill, he's just misunderstood...

http://billayers.wordpress.com/2006/11/07/world-education-forum/

[rhodeymark]

sorry - LUN

[sylvia]

One scandal this story does reveal is the corruption of the higher education system. It's basically job welfare for the flunky children of the rich or famous. So here we have Bernadine Dohrn and Ayers sitting in teaching positions at prestigious schools. And guys and gals I knew with PHD's are lucky to get junior college positions in the boondocks.

Rich and elite and got a troublesome murderous child? Not to worry, send him to the schools you sit on the board, and give lots of money to, and then call up your friends and make him a Professor. No problem.

[sbw]

hit a nerve did I, bgates?

Either that or he has a wicked funny sense of humor.

[bad]

...he has a wicked funny sense of humor.

word

[sylvia]

Thomas Frank has no point in his article.

We cannot judge someone's guilt or innocence or worth on whether he was a nice guy in the neighborhood. OJ Simpson had lots of friends. Ted Bundy was supposed to be a great guy to work with. Heck even Hitler was probably nice to Eva.

Yes probably Bill Ayers is a great guy to work with. He probably has considerable people skills, which is what made him a leader among the radicals in the first place. Being "a nice guy" does not mean that we give someone forgiveness who does not ask for it. We do not judge someone's guilt in a courtroom on whether they were a nice guy. Or approve of them giving out radical one sided messages to our children.

And as most harmful activity is carried out in secret, how does Mr. Frank, friend of Ayers, know that Ayers has given up his radical wishes or activities, when no one is looking? Without at least stated contrition, it is best to assume that he didn't.

[sylvia]

"Rich and elite and got a troublesome murderous child? Not to worry, send him to the schools you sit on the board, and give lots of money to, and then call up your friends and make him a Professor. No problem."

To comment on my own comment, it sure seems apparent that the Ayers have benefitted from the system they decry so much. Is there any other way these two would be sitting at those positions in those schools otherwise if they didn't have rich established families? I doubt it. If they were true class revolutionaries, they would give up those postions to a poor PHd student who didn't have the connections like they did but deserved it more.

[mrobvious]

Why doesn't Franks ask Donna Ron for her opinion of the new, improved Bill Ayers? Must reading for any PUMA.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.aspx?GUID=9E8CD8A7-E90B-4311-8AA9-AEFD014A14B2

[rhodeymark]

If you folks haven't been to Doug Ross' site - you have to visit. It is cathartic to see so much evil lampooned (while it doles out heaping scoops of damning documented fact). It helps me to keep my own emails from sounding angry.
LUN

[jimmyk]

Now that the MSM is having a hard time squelching the story that there were links between Ayers and BHO and can't really deny that anymore, they instead are trying to make it seem that, awwww, poor Bill Ayers isn't all that bad.

And desperately trying to get McCain to back off, as in today's preposterous NY Times front page article maintaining that the McCain's attacks on Obama are backfiring. This from the same poll that has Obama in front by 14 points--presumably they polled the CBS and NY Times newsrooms.

[Cecil Turner]

Why is McCain being Deceitful about the fact that William Ayers' educational foundation was funded by Republicans, not Democrats, Republicans, who are now endorsing him?

Good grief. Annenberg put up 500 million nationwide for education reform . . . Ayers and Obama hijacked 50 million for lefty causes that didn't help at all. This talking point is dumber'n dirt, and insultingly so (i.e., they can't really think folks are this dumb, can they?).

[Pofarmer]

And desperately trying to get McCain to back off, as in today's preposterous NY Times front page article maintaining that the McCain's attacks on Obama are backfiring

You would think that if the attacks were backfiring that bad, the MSM would just sit down and shut up, no?

[clarice]

Cecil:"This talking point is dumber'n dirt, and insultingly so (i.e., they can't really think folks are this dumb, can they?)."

Indeed, they do. If I had a sip everytime I heard that on the talking heads' shows, I'd be in a drunk tank right now.

[clarice]

Po:'You would think that if the attacks were backfiring that bad, the MSM would just sit down and shut up, no"

The NYT is playing the media version of We're Only Trying to Help You.

[PeterUK]

What connections does Obama have with Friends of Ayers,Revolutionary Terrorist ?

[MayBee]

This talking point is dumber'n dirt, and insultingly so (i.e., they can't really think folks are this dumb, can they?).

Remember, these are the same people that are arguing that ACORN is the victim of dishonest workers. Even Obama said that. Not that he needs ACORN or anything.

[mark l.]

best line for McCain in tonite's debate?

when Ayers comes up, he should say:

"I won't ask you what see in william ayers, but I must ask, what does William Ayers see in you?"

[Amused bystander]

The line I have been seeing on the internet is
"Democrats lied, the economy died!"

Nice right to it.

[Amused bystander]

Nice riNG to it.

(golly)

[clarice]

I've just heard Fox join the parade of news sources which falsely report that Foley had been sending lewd emails to underage pages.
How easy it is to turn a propaganda lie into a "known fact".

[Captain Hate]

The NYT is playing the media version of We're Only Trying to Help You.

You mean the "We endorsed you before we refused to print your op-ed rebuttal to Obastard" gambit?

[Obama's brain]

Wasn't that Murtha sending NAMBLA recruiting letters to young pages?

[clarice]

Obama's Brain, It's not a small thing.
While news accounts at the outset suggested Foley had sent lewd emails to underaged pages, the evidence which turned up to late to keep Pelosi's "most ethical Congress" from taking over showed that the communication which set off the scandal was with a minor ex-page and it wasn't lewd just a bit weird inquiry about his birthday.
Lewd emails turned up along the way but they were with adult ex-pages some of whom appeared to be gay themselves, others just palying games with the old drunkk poufter.

[clarice]

**turned up toO late ***

[Amused bystander]

Nice riNG to it.

(golly)

[RichatUF]

I'm sure the FBI investigation into Malhoney will get done in about 2 days and he won't be in any jeporday. Hell, the FBI caught Jefferson on tape taking a bribe and found the money in his freezer and he's still free and a member of congress. They caugh Conyer's wife as well and she's still free and on the Detroit City Council and Conyer's himself isn't in any jeporday. Very classy relationship the Dem's have with the Public Integrity Division of the Justice Department and the low expectations of elected Dem officials.

[Amused bystander]

Nice riNG to it.

(golly)

[Amused bystander]

Nice riNG to it.

(golly)

[Amused bystander]

sorry, some problem with my browser.

[clarice]

One smart bloger says he's switching his registration to Dem because the legal standards for Dems are so much better.

[glasater]

I am convinced that since I frequent "right" web sites--my browsing "flags" something.

When I go to spectator.org--I often get this message before I go to the site--that I am going to a "right wing" web site and "do I really want to go there"?

[Captain Hate]

Dunno how accurate this is but check it out. It would certainly explain the moronic actions of the trolls.

LUN

[bad]

I too have concerns about Obama and FART. Scheiffer should ask about FART tonight.

[Pofarmer]

Nice Captain. Thanks.

[SukieTawdry]

Old Dad, was your son stationed at Pendleton and did he attend the party at Pala (I don't know if there were other venues)? My best friend happened to be there that night and she spent her entire evening watching the Marines and their dates--she could not tear herself away. She said they were beyond fabulous.

[centralcal]

glasater: My ISP flags nearly all of my frequent righty web sites as either Yellow (caution, blah, blah, blah) or Red (Warning, blah, blah, blah).

[Jim Ryan]

If you are in a battleground state, please go to an HQ and hit the phone bank, stuff envelopes, assemble signs, etc. Convince undecideds you meet.

[kim jane il]

Scheiffer should ask about FART tonight.

And he should ask McCain about:

Friends
Uplifting
Charles
Keating

[PD]

McCain was cleared of any wrongdoing re: Keating.

Bring it up all you want. That dog don't hunt.

[kim jane il]

McCain was cleared of any wrongdoing

And Obama was never even accused of any wrongdoing wrt Ayers.

[Cecil Turner]

And Obama was never even accused of any wrongdoing wrt Ayers.

Too easy. J'accuse!

[glasater]

glasater: My ISP flags nearly all of my frequent righty web sites as either Yellow (caution, blah, blah, blah) or Red (Warning, blah, blah, blah).

Thanks centralcal!!