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October 17, 2008

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clarice plumber

Yes, cc I did know that. Paul, I've said what I did to sylvia and it can't be taken back. Perhaps it was unkind. In the meantime, all those I've intimidated into not chatting with her, the fatwa is lifted. Chat away to your heart's content.

Sue

Sue- they are going to impose a tax rate based on gross salary? That seems almost unbelievable to me.

I know. But Julie B. asked her, gross or net, and she said gross, and Julie B. repeated gross, and she said gross. Either the fool doesn't know the difference between gross and net or Obama is pulling the wool over someone's eyes. There are going to be a lot of pissed off small businessmen if they find out it is indeed gross.

SukieTawdry

Still I can't believe that SOME reporter can't track Bill down. He is obviously still in contact with his workplace on some level.

I haven't read the bulk of the comments, but if you're still looking for Bill, don't bother looking in Nebraska: University cancels speech by Ayers

sylvia

Yes, I did the miss the several comments on two posts earlier on Pritzker and I apologized for not having read all posts.

But I don't know Clarice, I think you might owe me an apology on parts too!

I just did a search on Sadik and JustOneMinute, and nowhere did I see anyone mention how Sadik might be an Ayers fictional construct to provide an alibi. In fact, I only saw a couple factuals mentions of him as a roommate. So you are just wrong on that. Also I don't believe I heard anyone talk about fraud in the databases of the financial inductry. And I believe I was the first one here to speculate on BHO's campaign small donation fraud, months ago, which we now see is coming to light in the media such as Greta in the last couple weeks, and I was commenting on how pleased I was to have guessed it earlier. In regards to BHO's Pakistani connections, I know that has been discussed before, but I think not enough was made out of it before. I thought it was worth another look. I thought to connect it to perhaps nicknames he might have had at Columbia. So I think tht was new too. But hey, next time, I'll try and get permission from you before I post on a topic, okay?

Jane Plumber

Bad,

You can do it, it's just making comments in a blog, like here. And you are so overqualified for the subject matter.

Sylvia, lay off Clarice. It's a war you can't win. She has more grace in her little finger than most of us could muster in a lifetime. And she is far less critical than most of us - and most of us would defend her until the cows come home.
When I get criticized around here I generally take it to heart, because there often is a point in there worth considering - and this is one of the few places where I react that way.

On a very different note, I've been thinking about Dean Barnett all day. As of yesterday he was still in ICU and I'm worried. Anyone have an update?

sylvia

"Chat away to your heart's content."

Oh Clarice you are so kind!! You mean the peope are free here now? Hurray! Free at last, free at last, thank the lord we're free at last!!!

bad

David Horowitz on Ayers, Sept. 18, 2001

In my experience, what drives most radicals are passions of resentment, envy and inner rage. Bill Ayers is a scion of wealth. His father was head of Detroit’s giant utility Commonwealth Edison, in line for a cabinet position in the Nixon Administration before his son ruined it by going on a rampage that to this day he cannot explain to any reasonable person’s satisfaction (which is why he has to conceal so much). It could be said of Bill Ayers that he was consumed by angers so terrible they led him to destroy his father’s career. But in the 10 hours I interviewed him I saw none of it. What I saw was a shallowness beyond conception. All the Weather leaders I interviewed shared a similar vacuity. They were living inside a utopian fantasy, a separate reality, and had no idea of what they had done.

LUN

sylvia

"and most of us would defend her until the cows come home."

Most of Ayers followers say the same thing.

clarice plumber

Good grief, no. Post what you want, sylvia.

sylvia

Thanks. That's mighty big of you Clarice. How kind you are to the little people.

centralcal

Jane: It still isn't good about Dean Barnett. I think Ed Morrisey on HotAir had an update yesterday. Basically the medicine for his lungs was causing his liver to fail, so they put him on dialysis to help that. They are hoping to give the drugs for his lungs time to kick in. He is still in ICU and pretty out of it, from what Ed wrote.

centralcal

okay, scratch the liver - it is his kidneys.

LUN for you Jane.

sylvia

Sorry Clarice, one more thought. I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but I really could give a carp about what you think. I post here because I like Tom Maguire's writings, not yours. It is HIS blog. Sometimes I think you forget about that. You are not Vice President of this blog either, you are just a commenter, like everyone else here. If you start your own blog, I will be sure not to bother you and your friends and comment in it. But as long as Tom is the writer here, I will be a fan of this blog, and regard you and your stunts as background noise.

Plumber's Pal

Sylvia: Many of the things you've been studiously working through have been touched on over the past few months, but that was long before any national attention was given to the Ayers/CAC relationships. I have found your posts a good reminder of some facts, and a not bad job of pulling the facts together in a connect the dots fashion.

I think sometimes we all forget that these things seem like old news when to the general public, they have been no news at all. And you never know when someone will turn up some little nugget that everyone else either missed or never made a connection about.

clarice plumber

Sylvia--we both have something in common then--high regard for TM's blog. Let's not diminish its value by carping up the threads with this petty nonsense.

centralcal

Gee, sylvia, you could have fooled me.

I first began lurking here during the Libby days and remember you from that time too. You always seem to be spoiling for some sort of cat fight. But it is rather boorish and a turn off to the rest of us who also like this blog.

sylvia

Well thank you Pumber Pal. Is that Sarah perahps? Well I know that I like to bring up some old information and I like to rearrange it in new ways. For instance, we both had the facts on Ayers and BHO before, but not until I really compared to myself the timelines of BHO to Ayers careers and put them side by side did it really dawn on me what the connection could be between the two. Obviously if we were just here to post the facts, it would be a very short thread. We are here to get the facts but also to give unique insights and twists to known facts. I like to bring up old facts to help me make a new case. I suppose that's how detectives goes about solving a case with limited facts. So some of that may seem like repetition to someone who doesn't get into trying to come up with new twists.

JBean

Andrew --

On page 123 Barack quotes his mother [circa her summer 1982 visit to him in NYC: "I was only sixteen then"..."I'd just been accepted to the University of Chicago - Gramps hadn't told me yet that he wouldn't let me go - and I was there for the summer, working as an au pair. It was the first time that I'd ever been really on my own."

I noticed that Andrew, but I think the fact that it's not mentioned in the media can be attributed to the media not actually reading the book. I suspect the 99.9% of the people who bought the book have not read all of it, because it's simply boring, confusing and annoying - after the first dozen dissertations on race, followed by plodding descriptions of community organization activities, endless dialogue, continual shifts in time/place, etc. it's simply not worth the effort.

Frank Davis moved to Hawaii in 1948, so scratch that connection. The au-pair reference isn't particularly out of place IMO, especially if you consider Obama's, and Ayers', social circle.

You can go batty trying to reconcile the book to media articles -- for instance, it's pretty much a given that the frequently-repeated mantra that Obama, Sr. left when Obama, Jr. was "two years old," is nonsense, since he shipped out to Harvard in the early summer of '62, when Obama, Jr. was less than a year old. But, of course, the media has established the memoir as myth, so let it be written.

I can understand all the theories flying around the net about his birth, etc., given the contradictions in the book and the lack of media curiosity. But the important thing is that theories are just that. Speculate all you want, but stick to the facts, as few as they are. And don't discount the possibility that the memoir itself is contrived, especially if, as suspected, it was gussied up, for literary effect,  by other than Obama.


sylvia

"Let's not diminish its value by carping up the threads with this petty nonsense"

I notice that's a pattern with you. Hit, and run when challenged. Honestly Clarice, I've known people like you my whole life. Bullies. There's a always a few in every bunch. Even on the internet. I wonder what evolutionary purpose this has? It must have some because it is so common, yet it seems to be mostly a waste to me. Perhaps people like you were good at rousing up the villagers in the old days, and getting them to raid neighboring tribes to get more plunder, who knows. It's gotta be something.

bad

Page 90 of the book linked at Amazon, Destructive Generation, has the lyrics the Weather Underground sang about Richard Elrod, a city official injured in The Days Of Rage riots, to the tune of Bob Dylan's "Lay Lady Lay."

Lay Elrod Lay
Lay in the street awhile
Lay Elrod Lay
Stay in your bed for a while

You thought you could stop the Weatherman
But upfront people put you on your can

Stay Elrod Stay
Stay in your Iron Lung
Play Elrod Play
Play with your toes for awhile

These are not nice people. They still have reunions, one as recently as November of 2007.

LUN


clarice plumber

Notice a pattern? Elrod and the others killed and injured by the weathermen were working people of limited means--the Joe the Plumber and Palins of their day.

SWarren

Silvia, that is quite enough!!

Clarice,
Certainly most of us here at JOM hardly see you as an intimidating fascist; more like a mother hen looking out for everyone. I personally find that quality quite endearing!

PaulL

Sylvia,

You can put a cork in it now.

bad

You really nailed it Clarice. The contempt is unbelievable and sickening. Ayers and Dohrn are on video as recently as November of 2007 celebrating their deeds and discussing the importance of them. Unrepentant doesn't even begin to cover it.

That Obama would have friends like these is beyond the pale. Ayers and Dohrn believe what they did was righteous and essential. Their ugly, violent past is the essence of who they are today and they glory in it.

clarice plumber

Thanks ,SWarren , Jane and CC as well. I became impatient and didn't state my concern in a very tactful manner.

Andrew

Clarice, ljm: I'm not so inclined to think Obama's mother's being in Chicago for the summer after high school indicates a direct connection at that time to Bill Ayers. It could indicate her parents knew Ayers' parents; it could indicate she had opportunity to meet, or cross paths, with Bill Ayers [she was just 2 years older than Ayers]. Thinking about it more - the scenario as quoted in the book could well be another 'literary invention'. The point of the quote was to tell of his mother's having seen, in Chicago, the film "Black Orpheus". The 'au pair' scenario could be nothing more than a devised [for the reader] reason for her to have been in Chicago. Considering it from hindsight perspective - that the move to Mercer Island was specifically for Obama's mother to be instructed in high school by two controversial communists; that they attended there the "Red Church", which was known as such because of its communist leanings; that Hawaii friend Frank Marshall Davis had a long, communist history/associations in Chicago; that the mother [in Hawaii] was studying Russian - all things considered, it's not unlikely that her parents were very deeply involved in the communist movement in this country, and that she, therefore, was also. It's unlikely she would have been in Chicago [at 16] be herself prior to the move to Hawaii. It's more likely that her parents were in Chicago with her, and not unlikely for it to have been a visit of preparation for the next phase of her training - in Hawaii, under the tutelage of Davis.

On one hand, it sounds out-in-left-field; on the other hand, and considering her son's entire history - of being mentored, schooled, trained, associations, etc, - to say nothing of his absolutely blank 'paper trail', it's extremely difficult to think there's any chance it's all just an odd series of coincidences.

clarice plumber

Yes, bad, rich, spoiled brats who thought (think) the poor are their play things to manipulate, miseducate and kill and when the heat is on they wrap themselves up in their inherited upper middle class comforts.

I despise them.

Think how many they have immiserated and how many more they would if they could to assert their will and dominate.

clarice plumber

Andrew--Stanley's parents were poos shleppers. Ayers were rich and prominent. Of course, you may pursue any lead that interests you, but again I say I find your theory wanting in substantial respects. I doubt Obama's mother or grandparents knew Ayres' and that the relationship went back that far.

sylvia

'I became impatient and didn't state my concern in a very tactful manner."

Yes apologize to them, not to me. Not only were you not tactful, you were mostly wrong about your premise about this thread. So I think you should apologize for that as well.

Bullies exist with social support, that's how they get to be bullies. They pick favorites who are eager to maintain his or her approval, but they also pick enemies if someone does not seem to bow down to their authority. That's what I've dared to do by challenging Clarice. Actually I've never been one to kiss ass and be a part of the herd, and that's why bullies can spot me a mile away.

bad

cc, spamcatcher won't let me post the link but if you google Bernardine Dohrn, her picture is on the first page. Click on it and it enlarges.

Elliott

Ayers, he wrote 'bout senior's goats
While Barry's muse was idlin'
Khalidi used Ayersy too
But would you?

bad

elliot lol, I haven't thought about that liitle ditty in years. What pleasant memories.

JBean

sylvia --

Yes apologize to them, not to me. Not only were you not tactful, you were mostly wrong about your premise about this thread. So I think you should apologize for that as well.

No, sylvia, Clarice was not wrong, and she owes you no apology.

Certainly there's some other blog you can go inhabit with what you believe is your expertise, since you are so offended here?

sylvia

"No, sylvia, Clarice was not wrong, and she owes you no apology"

Yes she was wrong. Read my post above. I proved it. She does owe me an apology. I'm not holding my breath to get one of course...

centralcal

sylvia: back slowly away from the saucer of milk. Tuck those pointy claws back into your furry paws and please go lay down and take a cat nap.

Come back only when you are in better humor, fit for the rest of our consumption, please.

Plumber's Pal

Another Obama/Ayers/ACORN video.

Plumber's Pal

Centracal, give it a rest yourself.

sylvia

JBean, If you consider a few comments in a thread on 9/16, Why Indeed, and on 10/7, Debate Pre-Game as extensive comments on Pritzker that I should have been aware of, then you are also part of the problem as well. 9/16 was kind of a long time ago now, and the post on 10/7 was not even an Ayers related post. As brilliant as you all are, sorry, I do not read all posts and all comments on all posts.

To berate someone as some sort of idiot for not having read all comments on all posts is cruel, and if you agree with her, and encourage her bullying behavior, you are just as bad as her. And to act like Clarice is some nice sweet person when she spends all her times literally going out of her way COMMANDING people not to respond to me of they where bold enough to dare so, when I have tried time and time again to just ignore her, than you need to re-examine your thinking processs as well. A decent person would not act that way and a decent person would not condone that type of behavior.

Sue

and that's why bullies can spot me a mile away.

Actually, I can spot you a mile away because you are like a dog with a bone. To this day, you will claim the LaCrosse players are guilty. Of something. If someone wants to interact with you, they will. Clarice's pistolas aren't very accurate and we've learned to duck.

sylvia

Thanks Plumbers Pal (sarah). I've always known you to be an independent thinker. But I am actually going to have to give it a rest now. For one thing, I have to leave and go somewhere soon, you know actually OUTSIDE, away from a computer, so I have no choice. Later.

DebinNC

"To this day, you will claim the LaCrosse players are guilty. Of something."

I'm generally mild-mannered, but if someone here spouts that lie, y'all will meet Deb the Plunderer.

Sue

Deb,

Then I shouldn't have brought the topic up, because...well...re-read my earlier post.

Plumber's Pal

Aerial photos of Obama's stunning State Senatorial experience

I don't hear much about Barack Obama's experience. So I decided to do a flyover of the neighborhood where Obama served as a state senator. Specifically, the apartment complexes rehabbed and managed by his biggest backers. Folks like convicted felon and (17-year friend of Barack's) Tony Rezko. And top campaign officials like Valerie Jarrett and Allison Davis.

Here's just one of the partially uninhabitable properties called Grove Parc Plaza Apartments, a 1000-unit complex. Quoting from the Boston Globe:

When a picture is worth a thousand words.

Plumber's Pal

Sue: They are guilty "of something" just not what was charged, so it would seem.

centralcal

bad: thanks for the google tip on Dohrn. I guess the picture of her I have most had in my memory is the mugshot one. Yet, I seem to recall a picture I saw of her on some blog or other, where she kinda had bangs and I thought she was rather pretty and what a shame. But I didn't seem to see it in the google cache of images.

Anyway, it was the pretty picture that I was remembering and comparing in my mind to the few pictures of Obama's mother. I think you are right about some resemblence.

DebinNC

Sue, good point.

If sylvia or anyone feels the need to discuss the Duke "case" perhaps we could use this dormant thread, and let this one get back on topic.

Jane Plumber

Centralcal,

Thank you for the link - I actually saw it yesterday which is what made me think about him all day today. Dean has lived longer than many with CF, and he always said he is defying the odds. But I feel like I know him, and I'm sad.

clarice plumber

There's a pic of her holding their then- baby Zayd in Sausalito when they were underground. Perhaps that is the one you are thinking of--

centralcal

Jane: Yeah. I feel we have already suffered a blow losing Tony Snow this year. Dean Barnett was one of those guys who could make really dead on points and do it in a really humorous way. I miss him enormously at the Weekly Standard Blog.

As our own beloved Hit and Run would say, "on my knees" and praying earnestly that he pulls through this to write another day.

Clarice: You know, I really don't remember much about the picture, except thinking, "what a shame that someone so pretty turned out so rotten."

DebinNC

"[Allison Davis]... has used government subsidies to rehabilitate more than 1,500 units in Chicago, including a North Side building cited by city inspectors last year after chronic plumbing failures resulted in raw sewage spilling into several apartments"

I bet those residents have a much higher appreciation of the Joe the Plumbers than BO ever will.

centralcal

I had the unfortunate experience of going to high school for a brief period in my Junior year with Susan Atkins. She was a poor lost soul in those days, mother had recently died of cancer, father was raising her and a brother, iirc.

Anyway, the young - as I knew her then - Susan Atkins looked quite a bit like Obama's mama. Not pretty, not homely or anything, just kinda everyday ordinary in looks.

Ah, memories.

Plumber's Pal

There are a couple of shots of Dohrn in the Obama/Ayers/Acorn video I posted above where I see the resemblance. I hadn't noticed it before, but now that my attention is drawn to it, I think it is rather striking.

Jane Plumber

I feel we have already suffered a blow losing Tony Snow this year. Dean Barnett was one of those guys who could make really dead on points and do it in a really humorous way. I miss him enormously at the Weekly Standard Blog.

CC,

I still ache for Tony. Dean is still in the present tense - and I hope he will be making those points again soon.

centralcal

Yuck, Deb. Bet Joe the Plumber is glad he doesn't live and work in Chicago. And I bet the plumbers in Chicago have many such stories they could tell.

centralcal

Oh golly, Jane - thank you for the reminder, gotta remember those (past) tenses. But I do miss him and pray for his return to WS.

Plumber's Pal

Is it unusual to choose someone who reminds you of a parent? I know I am more attracted to big strapping guys because my Dad was 6'4" and 270 lbs. My d-i-l is always being confused as my daughter, even my own Mother after her stroke and especially if I had my loose hair pulled back and pinned up or in a pony tail, would confuse us by looks when one of us walked in the room. She would get embarrassed once we spoke and she realized it was the other person. I always find this strange, since I'm 5'7" and she is only 5'1".

Charlie (Colorado)

I notice that's a pattern with you. Hit, and run when challenged.

Okay, kids, don't make me separate you two.

Joe M. Simon

Sylvia,

Don't take it so hard. Look atThe Best Congress Fannie Could Buy.

Pritzker is the first item. Clarice told me to write it.

Syl

Clarice

In any event it really does seem remote as a link between Obama and Ayers esp when there are far closer ones--like a few blocks between their residences in NYC years later.

I lived in Manhattan for several years. It was rare to get acquainted with people who lived in your own building let alone a few blocks away. In Manhattan you can get from here to there very very easily so physical proximity means little.

Not that there was no connection, just that how close you lived is a rather weak one IMHO.

bad

Bernardine Dohrn in 2005:

there has been a relentless thirty-year campaign to demonize and criminalize the Sixties. Militant resistance is portrayed as criminal, mass rebellion transformed into mob action, courageous choices derided as self-serving, moderately outrageous comments in the heat of the moment seized upon and repeated ad naseum as if they were the whole story or true. Fine leaders are degraded and their contributions dismissed due to personal limitations and all-too-real flaws.

I'm so ashamed of myself. sob sob sob... How dare Ayers and Dohrn be so mistreated. They were FINE LEADERS who made COURAGEOUS CHOICES.

LUN

Joe M. Simon

One thing to keep in mind is how in the 60s and 70s how utterly demoralizing American racism was.

A lot of careers were built on that and that is why they do not ever want those days to go away.

Some people just can't Move On. They want it to always be the time when they are the hero.

M. Simon

There was a time (honest to the Maker) when I thought the system was so rotten that it would be impossible to fix and I cheered on the Weathermen.

What ever the merits of their case were America has moved on and they have not.

Plumber's Pal

New York is a funny place sometimes. My Mom was window shopping in the Village one day and after she got home, her doorman called up to say there was a very dirty, scruffy looking guy looking for her down in the lobby. Turned out this long-haired hippy was my cousin, trying to make it in NY as a musician and living with 7 others in a cold-water walk-up. He spotted my Mom on the street and followed her home in the hopes of getting a home cooked meal and a place to shave and shower. She hadn't seen him since he was about 10 and wouldn't have recognized the 19 year old who showed up if it weren't for the name he gave the doorman. BTW, the doorman wouldn't let him in the building without someone to escort him up to the 17th floor where my Mom's apt. was.

In another instance, I was at Washington Square Park on a Sunday afternoon when I heard my name called. I turned and it was one of my close friends from high school, who was going to Columbia. I hadn't seen her for about 4 years and yet she spotted me from across the street.

I don't think it is the proximity of residence that would bring Obama and Ayers together, but more their mutual choices in associates and associations with radicals and black liberationists or perhaps a similar choice of places to hang out with like-minded people.

Plumber's Pal

there has been a relentless thirty-year campaign to demonize and criminalize the Sixties. Militant resistance is portrayed as criminal, mass rebellion transformed into mob action, courageous choices derided as self-serving, moderately outrageous comments in the heat of the moment seized upon and repeated ad naseum as if they were the whole story or true. Fine leaders are degraded and their contributions dismissed due to personal limitations and all-too-real flaws.

I am 3 years younger than Dohrn and I felt that way in the '60s and I still feel that way now. Idiots then, idiots now. Those days of rage and violence were awful and they should not be romanticized, they deserve to be demonized and/or criminalized. Her "mass rebellions" were not as massive as she would like to believe. As far as I'm concerned those immature spoiled kids ruined everything they touched.

centralcal

Well, I too came of age in the very late 60's, married, had my first baby. I was young and thought the world was coming to an end. Race wars, Viet Nam war, hippies and all the rest. Not everyone in that era was having a love-in nor taking LSD nor protesting the war.

My equally young hubby was in the National Guard and got sent to Berkeley for the riots there. He had a ball - gals ripping off their bras, etc. I suspect it was one of the more fun weeks of his life in the N.G.

Plumber's Pal

Does someone have a link to the "gross income" statement by the Obama rep?

bad

Bernardine Dorhn was on the Board of the Hyde Park Neighborhood Club according to her CV (resume) 1991-1997. page 6

It is reasonable to assume that a community organizer would be interested in the neighborhood club.

You legal eagles may spot more possible connections to Obama in her CV.

Link Under Name (LUN)

M. Simon

centracal,

I was a resident of Bezerkeley the week the National Guard came to town. It was interesting.

bad

Dohrn worked in the legal field, despite being denied entrance to the bar, supposedly on behalf of minority children. Obama worked at a civil rights law firm. Surely their paths crossed professionally, or some professional directory of contacts helped them realize they were neighbors.

bad

M Simon

If you found Berzerkley interesting you might enjoy page 89 and 87 of the LUN. Just remember the Weatherman only did it to stick it to the man...not because they enjoyed it.

Be sure to note Bill Ayers LEADERSHIP in yelling, "Do it."

SukieTawdry

I still ache for Tony.

I still ache for Michael Kelly.

M. Simon

bad,

Needless to say my understanding of the world has improved since then.

I also cleared a few personal issues which were really the driving force behind my anger at society.

centralcal

I am thread hopping. Greta's special on Obama - "The Ties That Bind" is on.

clarice plumber

Syl, I know that in NYC one can live in the same bldg with another person for years and not know him.Still, I was answering a suggestion that was IMP far more far fetched--that Obama knew Ayers because his mom had been Bill's nannie in Chicago.

clarice plumber

***IMO***

bad

Needless to say my understanding of the world has improved since then.

Yeah, me too. Did you read the referenced pages?

clarice plumber

Greta's doing a great job tonight.

centralcal

Yes, Clarice - I just hope it isn't all too late.

They are doing the Ayers portion now . . .

bad

Obama was shown on Greta in a clip from December of 2007 telling a group of community organizers, including ACORN, that even before inaugaration he would be meeting with groups like them from all over the country so they could help set the agenda.

Obama tried that as an Illinois Senator and it went belly up'

From The New Yorker, July 2008:


Obama took at least one concrete step to turn this notion of the legislator as community organizer into a reality. In his first column in the Hyde Park Herald, the same one in which he addressed welfare, he announced that he was “organizing citizens’ committees” to help him shape legislation. He asked his constituents to call his office if they wanted to participate. That kind of airy talk about changing politics gave way almost immediately to the realities of the job. I asked a longtime Obama friend what ever became of the committees. “They never really got off the ground,” he said. By 2001, if there was any maxim from community organizing that Obama lived by, it was the Realpolitik commandment of Saul Alinsky, the founding practitioner of community organizing, to operate in “the world as it is and not as we would like it to be.”

Another failed Obama initiative.

LUN

bad

Kurtz says ACORN got $240,000 from the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.

Lori

Clarice-
There's an interesting link in the comments of the top post (Waiting for Tuesday) about Obama and Ayers sharing an office in the mid nineties.

bad

They haven't asked why Obama denied knowing Ayers if the relationship is so innocuous.

A neighbor of Obama and Ayers who teaches at University of Chicago talks about them knowing each other and the things Obama likes about him. HELOOOOOOO.....

centralcal

bad: Yup. Fair and balanced, doncha know.

But still, at least they're doing something on television about Obama and his shady connections.

clarice plumber

thnx,lori

centralcal

Lori: It looks like the "shared office" information is making its way around the web. Good catch.

bad

Clarice

Would you please look at Dohrn's CV and see if it appears to be scrubbed of info prior to 1995? It may be that her writing and speaking life didn't get off the ground till then.

LUN

PD

Who among us does not embrace NPR?

The coffee shop where I go each day often has NPR on the radio. I bought an iPod specifically to block this out.

Babies crying, kid playing, that's random and easy to ignore. Endless eft-wing "analysis" - very distracting. Daniel Schorr is particularly galling.

clarice plumber

bad:Would you please look at Dohrn's CV and see if it appears to be scrubbed of info prior to 1995? It may be that her writing and speaking life didn't get off the ground till then.

Well, she was working in NYC for that leftwisng lawyer's groups whose name termporarily escapes me and then she was in the Weathermen and on the lam or in jail.

As for her wondrous career working with children--she's one of those who is fanatical about keeping families together which generally means that children of drug addicts or grossly incompetent or mentally disturbed parents never can get adopted into stable homes but are shifted back and forth from foster care to their parents with the expected results.

There is no limit to the damage people like bernardine do.

bad

..she's one of those who is fanatical about keeping families together..

Interesting isn't it? All of Bernardine's convictions and values have to do with Bernardine. I wonder if there was a push by someone to separate Ayers and Dohrn from her children after they surfaced or she is just reacting to the trauma Ayers says Chesa experienced after Chesa's parents were jailed. And then there is that little matter of her own incarceration. Regardless, it all comes back to Bernardine. She feels so intensely for herself and her beliefs but lacks the capacity to see beyond the moment of indulging her overwhelming emotions or how that indulgence may affect others.

clarice plumber

For a while my sister, a social worker, was responsible for checking on children in foster care. They were so used to being arbitrarily moved about, she once was brought to tears when a litle darling (well beloved by her fosters) saw my sister, went to her room ,put her meager belongings in a shoe box and brought them to my sister as if expecting another move. My sister explained that she was just checking to make sure she was okay, that the family she was with liked her very much and she wasn't being moved. After that, out of her own funds, she never sent to visit without bringing toys for the kids, telling them she was just there to bring them a present and talk.

You wouldn't put a pet thru this kind of carp.

M. Simon

bad,

I don't have enough Amazon credits to read the pages.

clarice plumber

**never Went to visit***

DebinNC

Re NPR, the Pew Center found the Limbaugh and Hannity/Colmes audiences are as well or more politically informed than those listening to NPR, despite the difference between the two in number with college degrees. And if 1 of the 3 questions didn't involve knowing Gordon Brown was Prime Minister of Great Britain, the results would have been even starker.

bad

M. Simon

Clueless me!! (as usual) Let me paraphrase for you.

The Weather Underground decided collectively that sexual restraint of any kind was sooooo establishment. To stick it to the man, so to speak, they participated in orgies with whomever was at hand, male or female, at the signal of Bill Ayers yelling, "DO IT."

Bernardine Dohrn realized the power of her sexuality and held herself apart from the group scene. Her strategy was to "do" whomever was currently at the top of the power structure. Since power shifted often, she did as well.

The book was much more fun in it's descriptions of the scene. Please forgive my lack of f*** and c*** and other descriptive words.

clarice plumber

I haven;t watched snl for years. It really really stinks. Niters.

Ann hearts Joe Plumber

"You wouldn't put a pet thru this kind of carp."

Clarice, Isn't that the truth. If we put the picture of a puppy in front of America instead of a human being they would side with the people that think infanticide was wrong, they would side with letting puppy owner's have more say on the dollars they earn, they would side with puppy owner's having the money decisions to take care of the puppy, and they would side with the puppy owner's decision that I have to have gas to get my puppy to the vet, etc...Maybe we need video of Obama flying over flyover country shooting down Joe the Plumber to get people interested.

bad

If HObama becomes POTUS, God forbid, where will he smoke? Is the White House smoke free or does it have a smoking room? Is there a private courtyard so he can smoke outside without being exposed to cameras?

sylvia

I'll end this thread with a typical Sylvia style construct. The character Sadik in BHO's memoir, was actually Bill Ayers himself, as written and interpreted by Bill Ayers.

Of course, there is actually a real Sadik, but he is only a cover for the character Ayers sees as himself. Remember all the descriptions of Sadik's drug use, and the hooker, or loose woman, sitting in the room that Sadik just orders around. That's representing Ayers libidinous side during tha time. He used Sadik as a metaphor for himself. And a metaphor for the relationship that he and Obama had during that time as roommates, maybe while Dohrn was in prison.

Now I'm pretty sure THAT is a new thought here!

Rocco

Good morning

I think that left wing lawyers group was called the National Lawyers Guild

Ayers also claimed in his book that Diana Oughton had reservations about the use of revolutionary violence and left his cell to spend time with Terry Robbins, whom Ayers described as a loose cannon. He contends that Oughton may have deliberately detonated the bomb in Greenwich Village knowing it was the only way to stop an action that would have unbearable consequences.

Off to work...later

Captain Hate

Daniel Schorr is particularly galling.

Has that fossil ever constructed a paragraph without reminding people that he was on Nixon's enemies list?

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Wilson/Plame