Debate Night Open Thread

I have a longish presentation of Obama's shifting stories about Bill Ayers in the preceding post.  Let's see if the distraction arises tonight.

LIVE, IT'S WEDNESDAY NIGHT

I hate McCain's tie.

On taxes and the economy - McCain goes after Obama for telling Joe the plumber he wants to "spread the wealth".  Would it kill McCain to say "I want to grow the wealth, not just spread it."?  I guess so, since he never does.  However, he comes close, saying he wants Joe the plumber to spread the wealth.

GROAN:  McCain is defending his mortgage buyback scheme.  When last we looked he was buying lenders out at face value - pain-free and a sweet deal for them, but couldn't he spread the pain a bit? As a taxpayer, I prefer not to bail out lenders on busted loans.  Not at par, anyway.

NATIONAL DEBT:  Obama says again that the national debt has doubled under Bush.  Hmm, the last time someone fact-checked that they noted that, while strictly true it was misleading - debt held by the public has grown by much less.  The Social Security and Medicare trust funds probably make a big part of the difference.

TO HIS FACE: The candidates are asked whether they want to repeat to each other's faces the nasty stuff that has been said on the trail.  McCain leads off with John Lewis comparing him to George Wallace.  Then he whines about Obama having more money and breaking his promise on public financing.  Yeah, this is getting it done.

McCain does mention Obama's negative, misleading ad distorting McCain's position on stem cell research.  Obama eventually acknowledges that Lewis was over the line with the Wallace remark.  Here is more on the reporting about hateful crowds at McCain events.

"Palling around with terrorists" comes up twice (and the moderator tosses in a plaintive "does he?"), but no one has said "Bill Ayers" and the conversation seems to have moved on.

Oh, now it moves back to Ayers and here we go - McCain does make the point that Obama has been evasive on this bit of personal history and that we need to know the full relationship.  Obama is going to set the record straight.  Ayers was active forty years ago (groan - nothing about the 1981 Brinks robbery while Obama was a student in the area), Obama has condemned it, they met on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.  I still don't believe it.

Well, it would help McCain if he could point out that Obama and his team have been full of misinformation up to now.  Why the confusion and cover-up?  And why should we believe them now?

ADENDUM:  Circumstances called me away mid-debate.  Here is the Times transcript.

Comments

[Mustang0302]

I'm sure of three things concerning this debate:

1. "Ayers" will come up.

2. BHO will consider that a "distraction."

3. Nobody's mind or vote will be changed by anything that happens at this debate.

Let's get on with voting against the MSM & BHO (hiccup!) already.

[centralcal]

Yes, TM - it is longish. I will be reading it with my MORNING coffee. grin.

[AnnCal]

I don't know if I am happy or sad that this is the last debate. I sure will miss the very smart drinking company. :)

[centralcal]

I'm with you, Mustang!

These "undecided" nincompoops are waiting for what? jeez-marie.

[centralcal]

Anncal, honey - we are just in drinking training for election night!

[PaulL]

I see that Romney is in the audience. McCain should just turn the debate over to him, and say that he's going to be in charge of economic issues under a McCain campaign.

[Mustang0302]

No drinking games based on BHO's "Uhs" or on JSMc's "My friends."

Might as well invert your BAC to ABC.

Naw, just make it NBC (nothin' but alcohol)!

[AnnCal]

Have you seen Karl's new Electoral Vote Map? We better pace ourselves. I think investing in alcohol might be a good stock tip for 2009. :)

[hit and run]

Oh boy! Game time!

[Dave]

"Pockistahn" count: 0

[SukieTawdry]

I'm much less nervous than last time. In the interim, I've gone through the all the stages and arrived at acceptance. Here we go.

[Dave]

"Domestic policy"... domestic terrorists.

[jean]

How in the heck are they going to swear Obama in as president,since no one is allowed to say his middle name

[SukieTawdry]

New economic plans

[PD]

How is "Pakistan" pronounced in Indonesia? Maybe Obama's merely pronouncing it as he learning it as a youth.

[Dave]

How can you give tax cuts to people who don't pay any?

[SukieTawdry]

We're angry.

[Janecal]

Okay we have established we are angry.

[Dave]

PD, I know that's the correct way to say it, but it just comes across like Kerry's "jenjiss kaaah".

[Ann]

Dear Centralcal:

I have to change my name back. Sorry, but I've had only one sip and all I see is annal when I post. LOL

[SukieTawdry]

Short term fix: going right to Mac/Mae

[PD]

Innocent victims of greed on Wall St.: I guess there are no mortgage holders who played a game of risk and are at fault.

[sbw]

I'm bored already and Bob Schieffer hadn't stopped his intro.

[badcal]

Obama sucks without saying a word.

[SukieTawdry]

Talking about his mortgage purchase plan

[centralcal]

Anne-annal is not good. not tonite.

[SukieTawdry]

mortgages should be first priority

[CalPal]

Blah blah blah. What else do you wanna know?

[SukieTawdry]

bambi: new rescue package for middle class

[sbw]

O: Middle class - Drink!

[SukieTawdry]

tax credits for jobs; middle class tax cuts; access IRAs; get loans renegotiated

[Dave]

That One: from each according to his ability; to each according to his need.

[hit and run]

Annal(s) of history better than anal canal.

But one is better imagery of tonight than the other.

[Pofarmer]

Uhmmm, could Barack Hussein define what makes a strong economy for us?? I'd love to hear it.

[Jim Ryan]

I'm reading your snark whilst coding in Java. I can't stand to listen to that freaking charlatan. (No not him, the other guy. Yeah, him.)

[SukieTawdry]

education and health care. Mac's bringing up the plumber. cool

[badcal]

Yeayyyyy plumber

[CalPal]

Gotta take care of the skilled trades. They keep the country running.

[SukieTawdry]

Mac will not stand for a tax increase on small business!

[PD]

I prefer Ruby to Java.

[sbw]

McCain has to settle down. Obama has to stop looking too slick.

[Dave]

Come on John, mention the "spread the wealth around" comment.

[Pofarmer]

McCain quotes the numbers on Obama's taxes.

Obama blows hot air and unicorns.

[SukieTawdry]

Bambi's gonna tell us what he's ACTUALLY gonna do...blah blah blach

[Dave]

Slightly less than half don't pay any!!

[worseJane]

Wake me when it's over.

Or maybe lets hold the wake now.

[SukieTawdry]

He's not calling it $250,000 any more, now it's half a million

[sbw]

O: wants to cut taxes for 95% of American families... but only 60% of Americans pay taxes. Hope McCain jumps on it.

[Pofarmer]

Ah, Barack Hussein wants to make sure you stay an employee. Thanks a pantload.

[Ann]

It's our frigging money! OBAMA

[CalPal]

Take from the plumber, give to his deadbeat friends.

[Dave]

Yes!!

[SukieTawdry]

His explanation for why Joe the plumber has to pay higher taxes is beyond lame

[sbw]

M: Let O spread Joe's wealth around? Let Joe the Plumber spread his own money around. Ding!

[badcal]

98% of small businesses make less than $250,000?

[Jim Ryan]

Ruby

Don't know Ruby. I do like opals, though. I just like coding. Great gig.

[Janecal]

I love Joe the Plumber

[SukieTawdry]

Mac says why would you want to raise anybody's taxes right now????

[Janecal]

95% OF AMERICANS DO NOT PAY TAXES!

[Dave]

Joe the plumber for President!

[M. Simon]

Rich people support Obama. Warren Buffett for example.

[sbw]

O: Exxon mobil 12 billion in profits... Exxon paid four time as much in taxes.

[Dave]

If you were playing a "Joe the plumber" drinking game, you're going to have a rough morning.

[Janecal]

I want Joe the Plumber! I want Joe the Plumber!

[badcal]

Obama blames oil companies for his fathers drinking, wifebeating, and his drunk driving, then eventually his death.

[PD]

Ruby, mmmmm. :-)

Rush was going through figures the other day from (I think) Dept. of Commerce on small businesses - very small percentage fall into the < $250K category. His conclusion: Obama's lying.

[SunnyDay]

Good Lord, McCain can't make a point even when he knows what he wants to say. He talks all around it.

[SukieTawdry]

Bambi basically says gotta do it if we're gonna pay for all my stuff

Mac says we need to lower taxes on business

[Dave]

Joe the plumber does not care about the deficit right now. Joe the plumber wants to hear more about Joe the plumber.

[sbw]

S: - "Astounding" deficit

But as a pct of GDP it is manageable.

[hit and run]

If you were playing a "Joe the plumber" drinking game, you're going to have a rough morning

If you don't, you're going to have a rough night.

[Ann]

How's your half brother doing Obama? I hear he lives on $12 a year. Why don't you spread your wealth around to him?

[SukieTawdry]

Bob says they're both nuts if they think they can pay for their proposals

[prtymbl]

McCain hit O with the earmarks issue!

[badcal]

O rude to scheiffer?

[sbw]

O: Then why did you call it a bailout if now taxpayers get their money back?

[SukieTawdry]

Bambi says he's "pay as we go"

[Calent Red]

McCain needs to simply ask how without raising taxes or reneging on campaign promises the Messiah plans on doing all of his magic.

BTW...

I really am sick of the word plumber.

[SukieTawdry]

We need to invest in the American people. Health care is an investment. College is an investment

[Pofarmer]

Obama is sure spending a lot of money to have a net spending decrease.

[centralcal]

If Obama spends money, he will save money.

[Jim Ryan]

Bambi basically says gotta do it if we're gonna pay for all my stuff

You'll get less revenue, Bambi. Then you can't pay for your stuff. Laffer curve. Bush tax cuts.

Cap gains revenue up 100% since the cap gains tax cut.

[M. Simon]

American people. I mentioned health care earlier.

[Janecal]

Obama needs to get that wart taken off his nose.

[sbw]

O: Need to invest in America -- by central healthcare? You will bankrupt my business with your investment.

[Barbara]

The question was how will you cut the budget and, once again, he talks about how he will spend his way out of the problem. Does anyone believe that?

[Dave]

That One: "mwah mwah mwah mwah mwah" like the adults in 'Peanuts'.

[badcal]

If Frank Marshall Davis is Obama's dad then he doesn't have to be George's keeper.

[sbw]

Actually, energy independence isn't always a good idea.

[Jim Ryan]

Please don't make sbw pay for my health care. I couldn't live with myself.

[Pofarmer]

McCain actually starts to answer the cuts question

[Janecal]

First a hatchet, then a scalpel. I like it!

[SukieTawdry]

Mac says energy independence. spending freeze. hatchet first, then scapel. spending out of control.

[Calent Red]

McCain said Nude Erection

[Barbara]

McCain -
Across the board spending freeze - first the hatchet, then the scalpel.

[sbw]

M: Subsidies for ethanol DOES distort the market. Yay!

[SukieTawdry]

yea-no more sugar cane tariff!

[Pofarmer]

There goes ethanol subsidies, which is at it should be. Ethanol is a mature industry.

[sbw]

Obama [smirk]

[SukieTawdry]

veto every earmark bill. Mac's not doing too bad tonight.