Debate Night!

Will Joe be a gaffe-o-matic or a patronizing boor?  Will Sarah exceed the now-minimal expectations?  Will Gwen Ifill volunteer the absurd news about her "Age of Obama" book deal?  Open thread!

Open:  No disclosure from Gwen but she does manage a gaffe on her opening question, informing America and the world that the House has passed the rescue package (she corrected herself.)

Joe looks like a mafioso from central casting.

Sarah seems wooden, nervous and canned.  However, she may warm up; hard to see Joe changing his look up there on stage.

THE FUNDAMENTALS OF THE AMERICAN ECONOMY ARE STRONG!  Good defense by Sarah P, who praises the work ethic of the American worker.  Michael Bloomberg also cited (IIRC) our laws, our financial disclosure, our education system... hmm, I don't recall - try a link.

WHOSE RUNNING?  Joe says Sarah didn't answer the question about regulation; Sarah responds with points about taxes and McCain's LOVE of regulation, citing tobacco and McCain-Feingold; and Gwen just cuts her off, announcing we are out of time.

MORE FROM GWEN: "Governor, are you interested in defending McCain's health care plan?"  Am I alone in thinking that is snippy and condescending?

READ BIDEN'S LIPS - EXTRAORDINARY NEW TAXES.  Biden informs us that McCain will raise $3.5 *trillion* by taxing health care benefits paid by employers.  Really?  Over how many decades?  (Or did I mishear?  Sorry, the TiVo is AWOL.)

NOW READ HER LIPS:  I like Sarah P's pitch that Obama voted for tax breaks for oil companies and she had to wrestle them away as Governor of Alaska.

BANKRUPTCY BILL:  Gwen asks a question predicated on the standard liberal complaint that the bill was unfair to the poor.  Palin ducks it and praises (again) McCain's effort to reform Fannie Mae.  Biden favored the bill (no mention of his tie to credit card companies) so he praises Obama's early warnings on the sub-prime crisis.

CLIMATE CHANGE:  Palin admits to some mix of man-made impact and cyclical variation in climate.  Eventually, she segues to energy independence as a good thing for other reasons but does not re-emphasize the national security argument.  Grr.

Biden is a true believer - all climate change is man-made. 

Energy will be her best topic and she is speaking with confidence and authority.  Drill, baby, drill!

Palin mentions that Biden knocked clean coal in a rope line; Gwen cuts her off; Biden says he was quoted out of context.  Geez, even when Biden is quoted correctly its not always clear what he means, so that defense will always be available to him.

GAY MARRIAGE:  Both agree on civil right but no re-definition of marriage.

ON TO IRAQ:  Palin brings up Biden's old criticism of Obama playing politics on a troop funding vote.  Hmm, Biden thumps McCain (wrong on "greeted as liberators", wrong on Iraqi oil revenues paying for it, wrong, wrong, wrong) and Palin does not get a rebuttal?  Well, I guess she went first.

IRAN:  Now Biden wants the Federal government to fund a major school reform effort in Pakistan.  Hmm, get Bill Ayers on the line!

Palin has now pronounced "Ahmadjenidad" about five times (and I can't even spell it).  No Presidential level meetings!

Biden is now trying to spin Obama's comments about meeting with the leader of Iran to say that that doesn't mean Ahmad... what's his name.  People went round and on that months ago.

Now Gwen takes us to Palestine - geez, this debate is at the level of cocktail party chit-chat and Sarah is doing fine.  And Biden's forehead is distractingly unwrinkled - botox, too much make-up, alien possession, what?

NUKES:  Paraphrasing, Gwen asks "What should be the trigger, or should there be a trigger, when nuclear weapons are put in play?"  I need the transcript, because I don't grasp the question.  I think she might be getting at the question of pre-emptive war.  Is she asking about a US response after nukes are used, or if the use of nukes is threatened?

DO TELL:  Biden informs us that we spent more in three weeks in Iraq than in six and a half years in Afghanistan.  Huh?

Now they are scuffling about whether a top US general said the surge could work in Afghanistan.  He did, he didn't, based on the dueling headlines:

U.S. general urges troop surge in Afghanistan

or

Afghanistan's Solution Primarily Political, Not Military, General Says

ANCIENT HISTORY:  In 2007 Tim Russert grilled Biden about his 2002/03 position on Saddam.

DUCKING THE CONSTITUTIONAL QUESTION:  Sarah ducks the Constitutional question raised by Cheney of whether the VP is in the Executive branch.  Some law profs and all libs will faint, but no one else cares.

I'M CALLING IT:  She had (is having) a terrific night.  Biden had a good night as well - no glaring gaffes, not patronizing, bullying or boorish - reassuring Uncle Joe.  I will check InTrade [maybe here?] but the rumors that Biden will step aside for Hilary ought to end with this.

EPILOGUE:  Fox News liked her, so I switched channels in surprise.  On NBC, Geraldine Ferraro tells Brian Wiliams that both candidates won; Pegy Noonans says "She killed", but that is a good thing. ("Dying" would be bad, but killing is good.  Whatev.)  The raves are going to accumulate.  Once again Sarah to the rescue.

Comments

[SukieTawdry]

Well, I'm nervous. Whether it actually is or not, it feels like a make or break moment.

[Elliott]

Fact: Katie Couric was not tough enough on Sarah Palin.

[Dave]

Fact... Bill O'Reilly wasn't tough enough with The One.

[Jane]

I'm nervous too. Why is Ifill on crutches?

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

I'm a wreck

[hit and run]

Bigger pressure than Minneapolis.

And even lower expectation.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

She tripped over debate material and broke her ankle.

[Deagle]

Heh... Fact: Sarah could make better decisions on the bailout than Congress.

[centralcal]

hellooo - anybody home?

[hit and run]

Jane:
Why is Ifill on crutches?

'Accident'

Yeah, in scare quotes. LUN

[Dave]

2nd debate, 2nd PBS pinko moderator.

[SukieTawdry]

Booooooo hiss

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

I feel like it is 4 pm 4 years ago on election day and they were telling me exit polls gave the race to Kerry.

[Jane]

Oh I bet Gwen concentrates on foreign policy.

[SukieTawdry]

She looks FABULOUS

[Jane]

"Hey, can I call you Joe"

"Yeah and I'll call you Governor"

[hit and run]

Sarah: "Hey can I call you Joe?"

[PDinDetroit]

Class right off the bat.

"can I call you Joe?"

[Dave]

The Welsh coal-miner's son is up first.

[Jane]

toldya

[Elliott]

When I said fact, I probably should have said that seems to be the prevailing view where I am.

Another prevailing view is that Ifill won't be tough enough.

Round one to Palin. Woo hoo!

[sbw]

BidenMeme - excess of deregulation

[SukieTawdry]

Boilerplate Dem. Palin has a real chance here--hope she takes it

[SukieTawdry]

Good start--goes right to the personal

[Dave]

The moonbats i work with will be mentioning "Fargo" again tomorrow.

[Jane]

Yeah!!!!!

[JM Hanes]

Do we think Joe Biden has had a facelift? A guy who would go for hairplugs would hardly balk at a stitch in time.

[sbw]

I can't get cspan to stream. Where else?

[PDinDetroit]

Everyday Person..

I like her.

Biden did well in the first question, even though I am not sure he really answered it...

[Jane]

Great answer!

[hit and run]

Joe goes straight for Joe Senator Big Shot answer

and

Palin goes straight for Sarah Six Pack answer

[SukieTawdry]

OMG--she's terrific

[M. Simon]

Deregulation caused it. Obama already voted.

Making money on the rescue is not allowed.

[JM Hanes]

I'm pretty sick of the bi-partisan theme. We have profound disagreements about the role of government.

[Dave]

29th September, Obama said the same thing, Joe.

[Elliott]

People are laughing at Palin. I think she'll have the last laugh tonight though.

[BobS]

I'm with Sara...I can't watch

[hit and run]

Good job Joe, step right into the "fundamentals are strong" trap.

It's the people.

Biden/Obama don't think the people are strong.

[Publius]

I have as many friends on the Republican side of the aisle as on the Democratic side.",<.i>

One on each side.

[JM Hanes]

A few too many talking points, from Palin?

[BobS]

Its like watching a field goal attempt at the end of a game...somebody tell me what happens

[Dave]

B
A
R
N
E
Y

F
R
A
N
K

[PDinDetroit]

Back to the Maverick theme...

Ifill, you should have stepped down...

[JM Hanes]

Oh please-- where's the Democratic corruption?

[Jane]

Gawd please please please talk about the democrat's role in the economic crisis.

[SukieTawdry]

I don't especially like this answer, but I understand it

[PDinDetroit]

Fixed?

[Pofarmer]

Too

Many

Missed

Opportunities

on

Freddie

and Fannie

[Jane]

When the hell did Barack Obama warn about the subprime mortgage crisis?

[Dave]

5 years ago and 3 years ago Bush and McCain warned about it and were rebuffed by Barney Frank & his pals.

[RichatUF]

Damn I missed the beginning. So how is it going? Has Fire Marshall Biden fallen into the tacs yet?

Let me tell you something!!!!

Screw you Biden: Obama was suing Citi Bank for sub-prime loans!!

[JM Hanes]

Drink on "good man, but."

[Barbara]

Biden's lying. Why am I not surprised!

[Pofarmer]

Biden is lying.

This drives me crazy.

And no one will call him on it.

[centralcal]

you guys, she is talking to the "folks" and I think that is more impactful than all of the policy crap.

[PDinDetroit]

C'mon Sarah, ask him how he voted on Deregulation...

[BobS]

I'm sure Palin has some zingers ready....shes seems to be doing fairly well

[JM Hanes]

Palin ought to be able to take on "deregulation" as bug not feature.

[Fisher]

*** Please continue the comments.. They are great.

I'm stuck at work trying to close the company books... to nervous to watch a stream ... so I will refresh here about every 1.3 seconds...

Go girl

[SukieTawdry]

I have a theory that McCain is waiting until the bailout bill is safely through Congress before he lets loose on the Dems. Anyhow that's what I'm telling myself. Joe Biden: blah blah blah

[PDinDetroit]

94, time to drink!

Might not have the money to soon..

see you all at a AA Meeting...

[Pofarmer]

I wish sarah could be sarah, and not speak for mcCain

[BobS]

Calling them on their votes is good stuff

[sbw]

I

can

do without

vertical answers. They tire me out.

[JM Hanes]

Please push Palin into the briar patch of deregulation! And why won't she go there?

[SukieTawdry]

Did she just tell Gwen Ifill FU??

[Barbara]

Yes! Got get him, Sarah!

[Jane]

Biden looks stupid.

[JM Hanes]

Guess she felt she needed to counter Joe on the $42,000 hit.

[BobS]

She's not intimidated...thats for sure...ans she's signaled she won't let him get by with mant

[PDinDetroit]

Great idea for Sarah: speak for herself, even though "they" want you to answer the they want.

Ifill just interrupted like Obama. Bad...

[Barbara]

That %$#% Ifill stopped Sarah from responding just like she did Cheney!

[BobS]

mantras...and alking points

[Pofarmer]

It drives me nuts hearing these aroogant asses talk about the middle class.

[Porchlight]

I have a theory that McCain is waiting until the bailout bill is safely through Congress before he lets loose on the Dems.

I also think this is the reason. I sure hope it is anyway.

[Dave]

"fairness" == giving 'rebate' checks to people who already pay NO taxes.

[sbw]

Well, I just gave up live-watching. A debate is a format that's a waste of time.

[Jane]

WOW Obama has changed his plan again - now no capital gains tax raise. I doubt that.

[JM Hanes]

Palin has been talking too fast, which I think is nerves.

[Sue]

Wow. $150K now. It was $250k last night.

[clarice]

Biden is talking Senate blah blah--Sarah is talking to the people.I can't keep awake when he talks. I bet no one else can.

[centralcal]

Yes - Ifill is a b*tch. But sarracuda will overcome her and talk around her!

[sbw]

MSM: Yeah, but Biden won.

[hit and run]

Palin has been talking too fast, which I think is nerves.

That and she knows Ifill is gonna cut her off...

[PDinDetroit]

Hit him as "patriotic" for wanting more taxes!

YESSSS

[Jane]

Biden looks like he is in love.

[Dave]

Sara Reagan

[StrawmanCometh]

redistribution of wealth!! Yes, Sarah, you are back.

[PDinDetroit]

She is well prepared and seems at ease here...

I like it!

[SukieTawdry]

She was reasonably good on taxes.

[Jane]

Great point about health care and the feds.

[clarice]

I agree, Jane.

[Elliott]

Crowd seems to think Ifill is sticking it Palin. Remember, reality based=not real.

[MayBee]

I think Joe Biden just called people making $250,000 "Superwealthy".

Reminder:Joe Biden makes about that much and declares his net worth to be near 0.
Barack Obama was making that much money when he worried about paying for college for his daughters and couldn't pay off his college loans.

[Pofarmer]

The middle class, cannot, by definition, be any kind of economic engine.

[Jane]

95% of small business does not make less than 250k a year. He's wrong.

[M. Simon]

We don't call it redistribution: we call it fairness.

Admitting to newspeak. Bad move.

[Dave]

Scranton? I thought he grew up in Wales?

[MayBee]

ask ask ask: How is Obama going to pay for his health care plan, Joe?