Obama's Real Beef With Joe The Plumber

Joe the Plumber, opponent of Obama's plan to raise taxes on folks earning more than $250,000 a year because he hopes one day to buy his boss's business and join that lofty income bracket, was the star of last night debate.

Obama poo-pooed the whole notion:

"He's trying to suggest that a plumber is the guy he's fighting for," Obama said. "How many plumbers you know that are making a quarter-million dollars a year?"

But Obama's real problem with plumbers was documented by James Taranto last summer while evaluating Obama's time as a community organizer:

These efforts at economic development having failed, Obama "began to focus on providing social services for Altgeld Gardens," a government-owned and -operated apartment complex:

"We didn't yet have the power to change state welfare policy, or create local jobs, or bring substantially more money into the schools," [Obama] wrote. "But what we could do was begin to improve basic services at Altgeld--get the toilets fixed, the heaters working, the windows repaired." Obama helped the residents wage a successful campaign to get the Chicago Housing Authority to promise to remove asbestos from the units; but, after an initial burst of activity, the city failed to keep its promise. (As of last year, some residences still had not been cleared of asbestos.)

It is both funny and scary that one of America's major political parties would offer this record of sheer futility as its nominee's chief qualification to be president of the United States. Even more striking, though, is how alien the world in which Obama operated was by comparison with the world in which normal Americans live.

Reader, when your toilet breaks, do you wait around for some Ivy League hotshot to show up and organize a meeting so that you can use your collective strength to wring concessions from the powers that be?

Or do you call a plumber?

As a "community organizer," Obama toiled within a subculture of such abject dependency that even home repairs were "social services," provided by government (or, in Obama's Chicago, not provided). It was an utterly bizarre intersection between the cultural elite and the underclass. By Judis's account, Obama's Columbia degree was useless. He would have been more helpful if he'd gone to vocational school instead.

Well, Obama didn't go to vocational school.  And now Joe not only wants to show up at people's homes and unclog toiliets without the intercession of a community organizer, he aspires to make as much money as a successful author or a vice president for community and external affairs at an urban hospital.

But don't call Obama a snob.

THE BEAT DOWN:  A round-up of the left's assault on Joe.  Andrew Sullivan provides a classic:

"Joe" The Plumber Actually "Sam"

No, I'm not kidding. Not a plumber either. Next up: not actually a man?

Hard to think of a rejoinder that is neither superfluous nor inappropriate.

                                                             

Comments

[clarice]

Wait--he's not the worker we've been waiting for.
Is he?

[M. Simon]

OK. I'm at the new thread. Where is everybody?

[Elliott]

The Lightworker vs. the Pipeworker.

[Elliott]

Joe sure threw a wrench into the campaign.

[hit and run]

There's a leak in Obama's campaign and Joe sure as hell ain't gonna fix it.

[Soylent Red]

I just hope the Lightworker doesn't send a pipehitter over to see the pipefitter for causing the alternative media go all atwitter and possibly leave his campaign in he shitter.

[Thomas Collins]

I wonder if Barry and Michelle know how to use a snake to unclog their toilets.

OK, I know TM's post was focusing on the politics of the matter. But I just had to ask.

[ex-democrat]

IBD/TIPP (pre-debate) has them within the margin of error.

[Try Hang Gliding]

Obama's real problem is his "spreading the wealth around" response.

[clarice]

Interesting the way the droogies in the press are attacking Joe tooth and nail while leaving Ayers have a wide berth--I guess they figure that privileged brat is more their kind than an actual working man.

[hit and run]

Soylent:
I just hope the Lightworker doesn't send a pipehitter over to see the pipefitter

Quick. Someone locate Jeff Gillooly and keep tabs on him.

[ex-democrat]

Both barry and his effete pals in the media are very well aware, thankyou very much, that when the drains stop up you roll your sleeves up and .. call for help.

[clarice]

How Biden and Obama are making fun of plumbers making $250k a year--I wouldn't go there were I they.

[clarice]

*8were I them**??

[bad]

Obama spokesperson, Stephanie Cutterer?, is angry and shrill on Fox again discussing Joe the Plumber, not as bad as this morning when she was discussing Acorn, but worse than usual.

I like that

[ex-democrat]

THG (great, if bizarre, handle btw): to be even more precise, his problem is the way that revealed his puerile belief that you can smooth talk peter into giving stuff to paul even when there's no good reason. What, he really thought joe would just respond by saying "oh yeah, fair enough!" ??

[Ranger]

Via Instapundit:

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/10/16/did-barack-spread-the-wealth-obama-just-blow-the-election.html>Did Barack "Spread the Wealth" Obama Just Blow the Election?

Note this Gallup poll from June:

When given a choice about how government should address the numerous economic difficulties facing today's consumer, Americans overwhelmingly—by 84% to 13%—prefer that the government focus on improving overall economic conditions and the jobs situation in the United States as opposed to taking steps to distribute wealth more evenly among Americans.

[Elliott]

I believe "were I they" to be correct.

[clarice]

Thanks, Elliott. It sounded right to my ear but looked weird when I read it.

[PeterUK]

"Obama helped the residents wage a successful campaign to get the Chicago Housing Authority to promise to remove asbestos from the units".

This was the biggest scam until AGW. Clearance has cost hundreds of millions,if not thousands,yet it is brown and blue asbestos,not the white asbestos found in building materials which is hazardous.Even then the danger is primarily to those working in industries using brown and blue asbestos.
Although Obama wasn't exactly flushed with success in this,he has obviously gone on to bigger things.
Obama will cost you money.

[Thomas Collins]

If the World Series gets to Game Six. every "Joe the Plumber voter" will be really ticked off that a bloviating politician is holding up the start of the World Series.

LUN

[clarice]

T-Shirt "No More Drips in the White House"--HEH

Ranger--the left can't believe Joe because they do not understand people who are not envious..If you are not envious you do not buy into class warfare.

[bad]

TM, you brought up Michelle so I am putting this out there.

A group of teen-agers were hanging out watching the debate when the families joined the candidates at the end. When Michelle hit the stage, the males of the group started commenting on the tightness of the dress for the size of her behind.

Was it significantly bigger (the behind) than at Obama's primary winning speech?

[Fisher]

**** McCain Leads Again in OHIO ****

Rassmussen has it all tied up which of course means Mac is in the lead...

[SteveMG]

Joe the Plumber, opponent of Obama's plan to raise taxes on folks earning more than $250,000 a year.

As I understand it, it's family/joint incomes of $250,000 or more; not just individual income.

So, if Joe's business brings in $180,000 and his wife another $75,000, they're getting hit.

[Sue]

I'm not sure it is going to help Obama by belittling Joe the Plumber.

[clarice]

Obama thinks "workers" are union members .He doesn't really understand self employed workers or small business owners at all. Joe runs circles around him.

[jim Rhoads aka vnjagvet]

It appears that our impression last night was correct. The spinners are really out today and are very well-prepared. They are talking double talk pushing their own mantra that 98 percent of small businesses will get a tax cut, and saying over and over that most Americans don't make $250k so Joe the Plumber is an outlier.

Their problem is that even the MSM has to cover Joe, so Joe is Exhibit A. Leave it to the voters to size him up. I suspect that more voters see him as an ordinary Joe (sorry) than a "rich" guy. They can see plainly that if it can effect him, it can effect them.

Small businesses as defined as the SBA defines them make more jobs than any other entity, government included.

[Barry Dauphin]

Delaying the World Series to hear his majesty speak will really lose votes. If he wants to win votes, he should be angling to throw out the first pitch at one of the games and not say a word.

[Sue]

Bad,

Did you notice that she (Stephanie Bloviator) wanted to make sure everyong understood letting Bush's tax cuts expire wasn't a tax increase, just a change in Bush's failed policies? If your taxes increase because Bush's tax cuts expire, it doesn't matter how you dress it up, it is an increase in your taxes. They really are talking to the stupid, aren't they?

[Amused bystander]

Clarice: That is correct usage.

[steve sturm]

So Obama can't do math either.

A plumber could easily make $250,000 a year if he was willing to put in a lot of hours each day, work 6-7 days a week, take no vacation and was able to charge about $100 an hour (the markup on parts just adds to the bottom line). Not exactly what I want to do with my time, but I'm not going to criticize those who are willing to do so.

And Obama doesn't seem to understand business either.

The key to having a successful business is having people who bring in more revenue than they're paid in wages. Law firms do it (doesn't Obama know how the firm he worked at was able to pay its partners the big bucks?), auto repair shops do it, newspapers used to do it, and plumbing contractors do it. Joe the Plumber buys the business (which probably consists of a customer list and some tools and parts) and hires a group of plumbers, pays them decent money (if he didn't, they'd go elsewhere) and hopefully does enough business and sends out enough bills that at the end of the day he's made a nice profit/return on the money he paid for the business.

[Barry Dauphin]

It's also funny that Dems are getting on the guy for not having a license--he's not government approved. Senator Government hasn't approved him, so he doesn't really exist.

[clarice]

Thnx,AB. I use the subjunctive case so rarely.

[Pofarmer]

SteveMG.

I wouldn't bank on any numbers. My bet is it will be rather fluid depending on how much extra revenue all the Messiah's spending needs to bring in.

[jim Rhoads aka vnjagvet]

Yeah, and residential plumbers need not be union members even in Ohio. The fact that he is non-union is a plus to most voters.

[tina]

ABCNews is dumpster diving and reporting Joe the Plumber has some back taxes he owes.

ABCNews is doing more vetting of Joe the Plumber than they have ever done on Obama.

What is up with Brit Hume and the "all stars"; I sent Brit a pretty nasty note today. I was pretty stunned at the commentary last night and the lack of seriousness in their commentary. "Obama looked presidential" was about as indepth as they got. It was pathetic. I read that Rush beat them up big time today.

[bad]

If your taxes increase because Bush's tax cuts expire, it doesn't matter how you dress it up, it is an increase in your taxes.

Additionally, are there people who really believe Obama won't change his mind about tax cuts once he is in office? He will be so sorry, but Bushes failed policies of the last eight years require a tax increase and we must all sacrifice and be patriotic together, blah, blah, blah...

[Barry Dauphin]

The Republicans can also parlay this into the check card legislation stuff. This is how the union treats people who don't join, and they don't like secret ballots.

[Barry Dauphin]

Of course, Obama will raise taxes when he gets in, it's only a "plan"... not like it really means anything.

[Pofarmer]

Barack's problem with Joe the Plumber is that he saw right through him. I don't imagine he's the only one. He's also given some pretty good interviews that I saw on You Tube. Now, leave the guy alone.

[Fisher]

******** GALLUP SHOWS MAC WITHIN ONE POINT ******

Breaking on DRUDGE !!!!!!

[Barry Dauphin]

ooop "card-check". Just thinking about the election has got me bent out of shape.

[MayBee]

And now Joe not only wants to show up at people's homes and unclog toiliets without the intercession of a community organizer,

As I understand it, this is pretty much the pocket in which Acorn resides.
They don't perform services any individual couldn't perform themselves, and they hire people certainly no more qualified to perform those services than the person for whom they are intervening.
In what would should someone make money registering people to vote? It's a perfectly free, perfectly easy thing to do.
Yet here is Acorn to be the middle man.

[clarice]

I don't think it the lease bit impossible to imagine a skilled services business can gross that kind of money--it may be harder for a small retailer to do that.

[Gabriel Sutherland]

The story of how the Community Organizer left the Community and it all fell apart.

Leaving Altgeld Gardens

Why do you think things changed?

I would say, sometimes it’s the criteria. At one time, Altgeld had a high criteria of the people that they would let rent there. You know, a lot of people worked and the ones that couldn’t work, they were involved in their community and you know I think people just stopped being involved in the community. A lot of people stopped volunteering and things of that sort and being willing to help and then there was a time when you turned eighteen you were allowed to split off from your parents and get your own apartment so that started a whole new era of leaseholders that was ultimately was not ready to have their own apartments. And then, people from outside would come in and crime would happen, things would happen, people have relatives that come and visit and things would happen, you know.

It's a trap, but it's a trap that many people find ways and methods to escape from. The escapes sometimes come from the private sector(Education, the public sector(housing voucher) or their own free will(move out on your own and take your chances).

[bad]

Think of the number of medical proffesionals who fall in that small business category.

[Amused bystander]

Clarice: The subjunctive? I could have used the past tense, but we are past tents by now, now we live in bungalows.

(the other Marx)

[PeterUK]

Of course Obama will raise taxes,it's what socialists do.Increase the number of parasitic,paper peddling,pen pushing pox doctors clerks and raise taxes to pay for them.

[hit and run]

tina:
What is up with Brit Hume and the "all stars"; I sent Brit a pretty nasty note today. I was pretty stunned at the commentary last night and the lack of seriousness in their commentary. "Obama looked presidential" was about as indepth as they got

Exposure to Obama produces inverse results when measured in groups of elites and groups of everyday Joe's.

Elites, no matter how ideologically opposed to Obama, will over time move toward his temperament and intelligence, his ability to quote Niebuhr and, well, his elitism. He's slow-release catnip to them.

Everyday Joe's will at first be taken in by the rhetoric and the change and the hope, but over time begin to see right through him.

[Amused bystander]

hit, you forgot to mention his poise. That is a really big deal, I am told. How could you omit that?

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Our neighbor when I was growing up was a very wealthy man. He owned the city's only plumbing supply house. They were the ones you called if you needed plumbing parts and a plumber to install them for you. Mr. Peterson, who owned the company, was a plumber too.

And Steve Strum: the money is in getting the subcontracts on big developments of homes or office parks and office buildings/apartments. I don't know what the plumbing contractor makes at Disney World, but I do know that the painting contractor for DW is living large at more than $250,000 a year.

[hit and run]

Poise, yes, of course. He really poises me off.

[PeterUK]

"hit, you forgot to mention his poise."

He's from Chicago and her carries a "poise".

[hit and run]

Oh and let's just do this for clarity.

Elite means an attitude, not net worth or place of education. Those may often correlate, but are not in themselves causative, nor necessary.

[Sue]

Toledo has shut down Joe the Plumber. Doesn't have the proper license. The MSM and The One. Making sure Joe doesn't unstop your toilet without a piece of paper. I feel safer already.

[Sue]

You know, this should outrage everyone, everywhere. They uncovered in one day something that could stop Joe the Plumber from unclogging toilets and in 2 years we still don't know anything about Ayers, Wright, or any other radical association of The One.

[Enlightened]

This is sickening what the leftwing media has done to Joe the Plumber. They have given him the Palin treatment - all because The One got caught telling the truth for once.

As of now, Joe is No One. Not The One. NoBody. He's not licensed, so therefore he's not a real plumber. He's not voting for McCain, so he's not a real Republican. The Company he works for doesn't make nearly close to $250K in profit, so him saying he would want to buy it and make it that profitable was a lie.

Our country should be ashamed of itself for allowing an "ordinary man" get treated in this fashion.

[dwightkschrute]

Of course who could have a beef with the fact he's not licensed as a plummer and his name isn't Joe?

[jim Rhoads aka vnjagvet]

The BHO dilemma was just emphasized by Mort. He spent at least three minutes trying to explain why Obama is right on taxes making some pretty wonky points. It sounded like gobbledigook, even to someone like me who ought to understand it.

Although I put complex issues into simpler terms for a living, and have done it for nearly 50 years, I would be hard-pressed to do it to Mort's points. That will not help BHO.

[Amused bystander]

Sue. I think that was debunked -- his boss has the proper state license, ar least that is where it was a couple of hours ago.

PeterUK: About this Chicago "poise" business, is this in any way related to all this mumbling about a "rump party" that we hear from the PUMAs?

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Yeah, but Britt brought Mort back down to earth by simply saying, "it isn't about Joe the Plumber, it is about what Obama said." Spread the wealth baby. Not going to play.

And Obama mocking Joe the Plumber isn't playing in my neck of the woods.

[Enlightened]

I'm with you Sue.

The RNC should put an ad out out NOW that says if you ask The One a question, and he answers truthfully, you might just lose your job, instead of paying more taxes.

I could be wrong, but I thought Joe said he was askign those questions for people that had asked him? So he was trying to get them some answers?

So now not only is Joe in trouble, his employer most likely is, as they should have known his actual apprentice status. I do believe "apprentices" can work without a license.

I can't express how totally frikkin PO'd I am that these mother---kers on the left are gleefully trying to destroy a man because he exposed Bambi for the fraud he is.

The guy never once said he was a McCain supporter, he simply asked a question that Bambi answered truthfully - Socialism is his intent.

[Pofarmer]

Man, comments at the Atlantic are disturbing. Reminds me why I gave up commenting on Kevin Drum's site. What a waste.

Hey, Asshat.

His middle name is Joe, but, nobody ever goes by their middle name.

Gawd I hate these fuckers.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Maybe Ohio is different, but out here, the contractor must be a licensed contractor, which includes state tests and fees, etc., but I don't think those who work for the contractor have to be individually licensed. They work under the contractor's license. They may need to be bonded however.

The various types of contractors I know didn't get their licenses until they were ready to strike out on their own.

[Rick Ballard]

It's not debunked unless he has a license. Toledo has an ordinance which states; "All journeymen and apprentices working in the City of Toledo must hold a City of Toledo license in their respective trade."

It's a standard fee scam - pay $100 and they'll let you work. If Joe is from AZ, I'm unsurprised that he wouldn't know about the license scam - just as unsurprised as I am to learn that he hasn't paid a tax lien sent that he never received because it was sent to a former address.

The lefty scum flogging this don't have the brains to understand that when other "Joes" hear about this nastiness, it's not going make them enthusiastic about supporting Chicago Machine trash who work a lot harder to "get even" than they do to tell the truth.

This is Alinsky 101 and this baby killer loving, marxist, islamist, racist pig of a candidate knows how to run a campaign using the model.

[Enlightened]

Of course who could have a beef with the fact he's not licensed as a plummer and his name isn't Joe?

Posted by: dwightkschrute | October 16, 2008 at 06:54 PM

A plummer? Only assholes like you would get that little tidbit wrong along with the rest of the story.

[Pofarmer]

I do believe "apprentices" can work without a license.

It's the whole purpose of having Apprentices, you work on somebody elses license untill you become a Journeyman.

Jim Rhoads.

Here's what Obama has to explain.

How does transfering money from one segement to another strengthen the economy?

[east one]

"the meaning of peace is the absense of opposition to socialism" Karl Marx

[Enlightened]

His middle name is Joe HUSSEIN, but, nobody ever goes by their middle name.

Fixed that for ya. ;)

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

His middle name is Joe, but, nobody ever goes by their middle name.

Oh? Sara is my first name, but all my life I've used my middle name in real life. My parents' choice so as not to confuse me with my Grandmother Sara. And my Dad used his first initial and middle name, so as not to be confused with his own father.

[Thomas Collins]

All this stuff about whether Joe the Plumber has a tax lien or has a license or is buying a business with $250,000 net profit, for purposes of this campaign, is irrelevant. What is relevant is that O, at a time when McCain was closing the gap in any event, has shown himself again to be out of touch with the aspirations of normal Americans. The clingers in Pennsylvania and Ohio will get it, even if the coastal snobs don't.

[J Verner]

Obama is not about change and hope--he is about the same ole crap that the democrat party has been for since the 60s. And it has never worked.

Let's face it folks, there's a reason for poverty. If it was solely because of a lack of "jobs", there wouldn't be thousands of Mexicans risking their lives to get here.

My mother grew up in depression era rural poverty. We're talking malnutrition,one dress, manual labor at the age of 6, housing so substandard that the water in the washbowl was frozen by dawn in the winter...you get the picture. Still, she was able, without a magical government handout program, to rise above her situation, graduate at the top of her class, and realize the American dream.

I have been in projects like Alted Green more times than I can count. Sometimes you'll find a neat apartment--usually occupied by the elderly, or someone down on their luck that just needs temporary housing. Often you'll find total filth--roaches, decaying food, Beds without sheets, dirty clothes, nasty children running around with droopy diapers, empty whisky bottles--and able bodied adults sitting on their butts not doing one damn thing to make their surroundings, or their lives better.

Sorry, but if you are living in poverty in this country, look in the mirror. That's where the problem lies. You don't have to be a genius to make a decent living. There are plenty of people who clean houses, paint, roof, landscape, are electricians, plumbers, or even have 2 year degrees in a technical trade and make well over 6 figures. The key is, they work like dogs, are honest in their dealings, and put in 12 hour days.

So excuse me if I'm not a big fan of giving Joe the Plumber's money to someone less fortunate. If they want what he has, let them get off their fat asses and earn it.

[Podunk]

So, one of the big knocks on poor Joe is that he'll actually get a tax cut under Obama's plan, but something I'd like to see some numbers on is this: Will he get a tax cut after his taxes go up with Bush's tax cuts expire? Obama's said he's not going to extend them. Why has no one hammered him over this tax increase?

[PeterUK]

AM,
I don't know, I don't move in those circles.If a a man carries a poise,there is nothing wrong with that.

[MayBee]

Yeah, and they are doing all of this while their trying to act like nobody could be intimidated by "card check" union voting.

The various types of contractors I know didn't get their licenses until they were ready to strike out on their own.
Many of the contractors I've come across have licenses for their business, but send out workers of dubious citizenship status, let alone licensing status.

Joe's boss should just say he hasn't worked in the city limits.

[Old Dad]

Senator Obama is the Emperor, and Joe just called him on his naked ass.

If the One had ever had to meet a payroll, he'd have a better sense about small business.

Sure a quarter mil sounds like a lot of dough, but it's not when you've got to live on it and capitalize your business. Especially, if you'd (heaven forfend) like to grow the busisness and hire more people (GASP).

Obama is slick, but he's a chump. Joe and Sarahcuda, and the Big Mac will re"organize" his community.

P.S. For enquiring minds. What if a small plumbing business wanted to hire a new hand. What would it cost for a truck (purchase, taxes, insurance, logo), wages and insurance, tools, inventory, working capital? Shit, we're scaring a couple hundred grand without even factoring the risk. The One can kiss my ass.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

It's the whole purpose of having Apprentices, you work on somebody elses license untill you become a Journeyman.

Who has said that Joe is a Union man? He didn't sound like one to me.

[MayBee]

"Joe" The Plumber Actually "Sam"

This guy goes by his middle name. In Obama world, middle names are not allowed.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

I wonder why any of you smart people here buy anything they say at those far left sites? Haven't you learned by now that they lie just because they can.

[MayBee]

There really is a Joe Sixpack though, right?

[Pofarmer]

Sara, his employer may or may not be Union. However, my experience is that if you want the big jobs, and have multiple employees that you pretty much have to be Union. If they are just doing residential plumbing repair, then they might not be. Hard to tell. I know a lot of folks that aren't particularly Union type folks that join because that's where the work is.

[Rick Ballard]

Apprenticeship is not limited to union tradesman. A non-union apprentice may not have the same testing as a union apprentice but the time in trade is generally the same - three years for off the street, less if the person has some helper/hod carrier/laborer/whatever experience in the trade he is entering.

Joe is a journeyman plumber by the fact that his 'master' (boss) is paying him the journeyman wage. The 'license' crap is wholly immaterial. It ain't like "apprentice, journeyman, master" doesn't have a line of understanding that's a 1,000 years long.

[dwightkschrute]

"what the leftwing media has done to Joe the Plumber"?

McCain brings Joe's name up in the debate and mentions him over 20 times. The guy then holds impromptu press conferences on his front yard and appears on national morning talk shows relishing in giving his political views. But yeah it's totally all the liberal media's doing.

"Our country should be ashamed of itself for allowing an "ordinary man" get treated in this fashion."

Exactly, this guy deserves the same treatment and courtesy blogs give to 12 year old kids that talk on the radio about how after a car crash SCHIP was their saving grace. You know like calling the kid a liar, publishing his home address on their blog, and showing up at the dad's job asking questions. Oh wait, bad example I guess.

[Amused bystander]

Hit, perhaps you are confusing elites with snobs (and possibly "posers" too).

There are indeed real elites and they tend to have a very great deal to do with money, place and "education"(which is really another kind of "place" here).

Elites are tiered, and there are several (competing) Elites.

Obama belongs to the Ivy/Marxist branch (irregular auxiliary/political corp) of the East Coast, Old New Deal Money Establishment (deracinated division).

A great many of "the help", i.e., associate professors without trust funds and such, are posers (and pretty much snobs too).

Anyone, of course can be a snob, though some have to work harder at it than others.
These are the people you see at Starbucks.

The real Elites only go in to Starbucks for grins and to hit on chicks. They find it amusing.

That is my experience, at least.

[jim Rhoads aka vnjagvet]

He ain't a union man, Sara. That is why the journos are so outraged. But it has been a long time since the construction trades have been predominately union, except in large cities.

[Amused bystander]

Rick, I heard that his boss had a state license, and that superseded the city requirement. That all I know.

[Enlightened]

Sara - Sadly the leftwing sites don't always lie.

Dkos has now published Joe's home address (he has a young child), a portion of his Social Security number, and I'm sure more to follow.

This guy said from the get go that he likes to get all sides of an arguement. He was merely asking questions. He is not for or against Obama, he has not decided. He has been employed by a plumbing company, and therefore he has been a PLUMBER. If he is not properly documented, I'm sure the f-cktards on the left will understand, it's no worse than being an illegal alien.

This is sickening. And I think McCain should BLAST the crap out of the media for allowing this and perpetuating it.

I know Bambi sure as shit won't.

[M. Simon]

You know like calling the kid a liar,

I was under the impression that it was the parents who were lying.

[Ranger]

My general experience is that nothing angers average Americans like threatening their livelyhood. If there was already a backlash brewing against the MSM over their actions in this cycle, this will explode it into a fire storm. Time to e-mail that Barone item about the coming Obama thugocracy... it will resonate double after today.

[Rick Ballard]

The key to this is that Joe just moved into Hussein's People's Republic (formerly the United States). I'm not going to defend Joe, he can do that just fine.

I believe that I'll focus on Hussein (the Goatherd's Bastard) Obama's use of the same scummy Chicago Machine tactics that have brought him to this point. That's the fact that the Muddle needs to hear.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Pofarmer: I don't know much about unions. I've personally never known anyone who would be willing to sell their soul to one just to have a job.

When my husband went to work for GM after 26 years in the Navy, he was an engineering manager and responsible for a large department of skilled trades, all UAW. He'd come home at night and complain how he never worked with so many babies and lazy whiners. In the morning, he'd say, "I'm off to Pre-School to babysit the babies."

[jim Rhoads aka vnjagvet]

Alinksy habits die hard. Even when they will obviously be damaging to the candidate who uses them.

[Enlightened]

"McCain brings Joe's name up in the debate and mentions him over 20 times."

Brought up his NAME and a QUESTION he asked.

Not his home address, not his employer, not his voting record, not his social security number, not his schooling, not his license status, not his real name, not his tax liens.

I could go on but won't because idiots like you disgust me and have no place in this world.

[Amused bystander]

PeterUK:
I don't know, I don't move in those circles.If a a man carries a poise,there is nothing wrong with that.

Well knowing Chicago as I do, all I can say is he better carry his poise with a great deal of Eclat.

And moving around in circles might not be a good idea either...I'd make a beeline right to the cab.

[Podunk]

OK, I did the math I was wondering about in my previous post. I'm not sure how to correct completely for the gradual raising of tax brackets over time, but the short of it is, for a 120k taxable married filing jointly:

Now:
16050*.1 + (65100-16050)*.15 + (120000-65100)*.25 = $22687.5 in taxes, a 19% effective tax rate.

In 2010:
65100*.15+(120000-65100)*.28 = $25137, a 21% tax rate, and an absolute difference of $2450.

Obama's tax "cut" for the same couple? $1000. Nice.

[dwightkschrute]

"Here's what Obama has to explain.

How does transfering money from one segement to another strengthen the economy?"

Totally! Crazy stuff. You'd never catch someone like Ronald Reagan saying that a big tax reduction for the investor class would bring about more money to spend on factory and business expansions, creating jobs and causing money to "trickle down" to the working class. Oh wait, another bad example.

[Barry Dauphin]

I go by my middle name (although mine really is Barry not Barack)

[clarice]

"The lefty scum flogging this don't have the brains to understand that when other "Joes" hear about this nastiness, it's not going make them enthusiastic about supporting Chicago Machine trash who work a lot harder to "get even" than they do to tell the truth."

I am in full agreement. The mask has slipped.

[Rick Ballard]

"his boss had a state license, and that superseded the city requirement."

AB,

That might be true - the link to the ordinance on the city site that I linked won't open for me. It is not unusual for a union city to have that kind of crap on the books, sometimes the state overrides. It's shear stupidity on its face - if a Columbus contractor takes a job in Toledo does every journeyman sent to Toledo for a day's work have to get a Toledo license?

Hussein is still Alinskyist scum, happier in the company of felons and terrorists than anywhere else on earth. That's one of those "immutable facts".