Backpedaling Towards Reality

Team Obama may embrace (cooly!) preventive detention for some of the alumni after they close Gitmo.  How this can legally be done on US soil is a mystery to me - I thought that was why the prison was out of the US - but then I wasn't smart enough to fully grasp Obama's nuance during the campaign.  Now the explanation is crystal clear:

Even some liberals are arguing that to deal realistically with terrorism, the new administration should seek Congressional authority for preventive detention of terrorism suspects deemed too dangerous to release even if they cannot be successfully prosecuted.

“You can’t be a purist and say there’s never any circumstance in which a democratic society can preventively detain someone,” said one civil liberties lawyer, David D. Cole, a Georgetown law professor who has been a critic of the Bush administration.

Although the nation has long had limited legal procedures for detaining dangerous people who have not been convicted of a crime, the issue has become particularly controversial in the context of Guantánamo, where some detainees have been held for almost seven years without being charged.

Whether the Obama administration should push for a preventive detention law has inspired “a very hot and serious debate,” said Ken Gude, a national security scholar at the liberal Center for American Progress, adding, “I’ve had conversations with progressives who think it is a good idea and conservatives who think it’s a terrible idea.”

So this new Dem-dominated Congress is going to pass a preventive detention law that Bush never tried to run through a Republican controlled Congress in the heat of war?  Hmm, and I'm the Queen of May.  Yes, I get that Bush was not interested in pushing for such a law and in expanding Executive Branch authority, but still - there is no way a preventive detention law gets through this Congress. 

The Captain tees of on this and related Obama re-positioning on enhanced interogation, which will never, ever be called torture after Jan 20 2009.

PRINCIPLE OVER POLITICS: Will Attack Reps run the international equivalent of Willie Horton ads after some of the Gitmo alumni resume their life of terror?  Sure, but principled Dems can endure the consequences of their principled decisions, yes? 

Comments

[bad]

It's the beginning of the push for re-education camps. Ala weather underground...A leather-clad Bernardine Dohrn with a whip and chains in charge.

[jeanedcrusader]

I cannot see that law being passed under an illuminati administration either. But what is a realistic way of dealing with terrorists, especially ones you don't have charges against? It doesn't seem right to keep them confined indefinitely, although I definitely don't want them wandering the streets. Beats me.

[bgates]

I won't call bad "right" after that gruesome image, but...let's say "right direction".

It's much easier to imagine Obama imprisoning conservatives for thought crimes than to propose he would take affirmative measures to prevent oppressed third world types from murdering Americans.

[BumperStickerist]

At the rate Obama will adopt his predecessor's policies, Bush will become the Sage of D.C by January 27th, 2009.

[Pofarmer]

So, you think the Obama administration might actually prosecute leaks?

[bad]

Sorry bgates, I couldn't resist.

[clarice]

What an unsurprising lot of merde..Gitmo's not going to be closed. Once again--relaity bites and BDS is exposed for what it is.

[clarice]

**reality bites**

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Yes, I get that Bush was not interested in pushing for such a law and in expanding Executive Branch authority, but still - there is no way a preventive detention law gets through this Congress.

I'll put $20 on that. Not only will Congress pass it, but the legacy media will wonder audibly about the commitment to national security of any Republicans who question it.

[kim]

Right on schedule. OK, Simon. I want to hear what you think.
======================================

[MayBee]

We need a permalink to bgates's list of future NYTimes stories on Barack Obama's principled anti-terrorism stances. We can use it as a check list.

[matt]

The fundamental problem is that there is no real law in place to deal with these a**holes. Their own countries either don't want them; won't prosecute or hold them in an effective manner, or are non functioning states.

Too many times, prisoners released from Gitmo have ended up back in Iraq or Afghanistan as suicide bombers or back at their trade of terrorism. The Geneva conventions don't cover them.

Every government knows this and refuses to get involved, but they are perfectly happy to see Bush pilloried. Now it's going to be Obama's turn.

[Thomas Collins]

I think that suspected terrorists could be in for worse treatment. If Zero adopts Zero Toleration and Maximum Interrogation, MSM is less likely to second guess him. Those suspected of Islamic terrorism may long for the enlightened days of Bush/Cheney!

Zero is going to put his stamp on "change" in other ways (Supreme Court appointments, socialized medicine, liberalizing "reproductive health" regs., and increased environmental regulation are areas in which Zero will probably move). But Zero probably figures that a suitcase nuke detonation in the Homeland that could be tied to a released Gitmo individual is not the kind of audacity for which Zero hopes.

[matt]

and the K Street terrorists are now a part of the new, principled Obama administration...Let's put them in Gitmo too....

[Charlie (Colorado)]

The Geneva conventions don't cover them.

Sure they do: they're unlawful combatants. By prosecuting war without distinguishing marks, from among civilian populations, and against civilian populations with no military target, they're unlawful combatants and war criminals. We could simply define them as such. Follow that with a drumhead court martial and execution.

If you don't like the execution option, then convict them and sentence them to life without possibility of parole under military supervision.

Or, if you don't like the unlawful combatant option, assume they are lawful combatants, and hold them for the duration. If that means they're old and gray when released, well, John McCain wasn't exactly in great shape after he was released either.

The real problem is that we've defined a new category of "politically convenient pawn combatants" who can be using in domestic politics.

[Elliott]

Zero is going to put his stamp on "change" in other ways (Supreme Court appointments, socialized medicine, liberalizing "reproductive health" regs., and increased environmental regulation are areas in which Zero will probably move).

Removal of The Mask of Zero is not something I anticipate eagerly.

[PeterUK]

"Although the nation has long had limited legal procedures for detaining dangerous people who have not been convicted of a crime, the issue has become particularly controversial in the context of Guantánamo, where some detainees have been held for almost seven years without being charged."

I was going to say that the detainees are not criminals,by either your or their definition ,but unlawful combatants,but Chaco beat me to it.
The whole criminal justice approach is a strawman,there are already laws which cover these detainees.This is all part of the Democrat's design to make dealing with terror a criminal justice issue.Exactly how these people are to be arrested and read their rights in combat is beyond me.

[clarice]

Let's see what these sharpies think after they'd read a few more daily threat assessments...and changed their pants.

[DavidL]

BO campaigned, and needless to say won, on the simplistic meme of Bush Bad. Well now BO's Bush Bad mantra meets reality.

[PeterUK]

Clarice,
"Let's see what these sharpies think after they'd read a few more daily threat assessments...and changed their pants."

Sadly,they will say "What have we done to make them hate us so".

[truthynesslover]

Joint Chiefs Chairman: Close Guantanamo
Mullen Says He Favors Closing Terror Prison As Soon As Legal Issues Are Worked Out
By ROBERT BURNS AP Military Writer
GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba January 14, 2008 (AP) The Associated Press

RSS The chief of the U.S. military said he favors closing the prison here as soon as possible because he believes negative publicity worldwide about treatment of terrorist suspects has been "pretty damaging" to the image of the United States.

Powell: Close Guantanamo Now, Restore Habeas»
This morning on NBC’s Meet the Press, Gen. Colin Powell strongly condemned the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, calling it “a major problem for America’s perception” and charging, “if it was up to me, I would close Guantanamo — not tomorrow, this afternoon.”

He also called for an end to the military commission system the Bush administration has created to try Guantanamo detainees. “I would simply move them to the United States and put them into our federal legal system,” Powell said. He scoffed at criticism that the detainees would have access to lawyers and the writ of habeas corpus: “So what? Let them. Isn’t that what our system’s all about?”

“[E]very morning I pick up a paper and some authoritarian figure, some person somewhere, is using Guantanamo to hide their own misdeeds,” Powell said. “[W]e have shaken the belief that the world had in America’s justice system by keeping a place like Guantanamo open… We don’t need it, and it’s causing us far more damage than any good we get for it.”
what fags!

[clarice]

What utter B.S.

Cripple ourselves because thugs are using an idiotic press and an unprincipled opposition to hamper us.

[PeterUK]

"RSS The chief of the U.S. military said he favors closing the prison here as soon as possible because he believes negative publicity worldwide about treatment of terrorist suspects has been "pretty damaging" to the image of the United States."

Where,exactly,did that negative publicity come from? Why the very people who are going to have to deal with the problem.

"“I would simply move them to the United States and put them into our federal legal system,” Powell said. He scoffed at criticism that the detainees would have access to lawyers and the writ of habeas corpus: “So what? Let them. Isn’t that what our system’s all about?"

So,Powell advocate extending the rights of US citizenship to a dagger waving fanatic picked up on the Hindu Khush? A fanatic moreover dedicated to to the destruction of Western civilisation,a fanatic who does not believe in your society,laws and way of life.
Nice one Mr Powell,I presume that that includes release on bail?

[Captain Hate]

what fags!

More projection from trolls as they get their marching orders from strategic geniuses that opposed the surge.

[SunnyDay]

Re the google advertising links on the left. An annoyance - however - these ads are pay per click, meaning the advertiser pays every time someone clicks the link. HINT HINT. take their money, make them pay TM beaucoup bucks.

[centralcal]

toothlessloser

[bad]

Why do the trolls hate gays and refer to them as fags? Is this part of the new O love and tolerance supposedly surrounding us now?

[tradecontrols]

'preventive detention for some of the alumni'

Obama will have this done to the people who he had to pay off, ruining his change because he was oppressed before he was impeached and incarcerated.

The socialism plan is going real well, but he and Joe had to give away all that cash first.

[PaulL]

"You can’t be a purist." That's the greatest quote from the article and could be used by the Obama camp for just about everything. Lord knows they need a new line after "That's just a distraction."

[truthynesslover]

anouther lefty fag!

Is This the Man With a Plan for Gitmo?
By Noah Shachtman July 01, 2008 | 4:17:00 PMCategories: Cops and Robbers, Human Terrain, T is for Terror, War Update
Andrew K. Woods is a Hauser fellow at Harvard Law School and a Gates Scholar at Cambridge University. This is his first post for DANGER ROOM.

Everyone from McCain to Obama to the Supreme Court says we should close the detention camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. But no one has a plan for how to do that -- well, except for one general on the rise.

Major General Douglas Stone just returned from a year as Commanding General of Task Force 134, Detainee Operations. Which means he was in charge of the prisoners held by American forces in Iraq. As I set out in my Financial Times piece this weekend, Stone claims some enormous successes there, including increased detention conditions, better (but not perfect) due process, and much-reduced recidivism rates.

Now, Stone might actually have a good idea for Gitmo, too: He wants to release the guys we radicalized into de-radicalization programs in places like Saudi, Pakistan, Indonesia, etc. And whatever we do, going forward in this struggle, let's make sure we don't pick up the wrong guys; let's not hold them unnecessarily; and let's treat them well so they don't get angry and have a reason to turn to violent ideology. (PS: the Constitution has some nice tips for how to solve most of these problems...)

The thing is, Stone is now in the early stages of planning a way to put these ideas in motion. But he's doing this literally on his own. Rumor has it he's about to get a third star and become head of Marine Forces Reserve, and Marines North. Those stateside positions strike me as very respectable, but bizarre posts for Stone. Shouldn't he be headed to Gitmo? Or Pakistan? Or even back to Iraq, with a bigger job?

-- Andrew K. Woods

[Barry Dauphin]

Move Gitmo to Alcatraz and give them swimming lessons. Then we'll see how Pelosi feels when they get loose in San Francisco.

[bad]

nessy, Why don't you start every comment with your name so we'll all know to really concentrate.

[truthynesslover]

THE SURGE IS WORKING!!!Jassim Hatem, grieves as his son's coffin is taken for burial in Baghdad, Iraq, Thursday, Nov. 13, 2008. Ali Jassim, 21, was one of 23 people killed in a string of bombings that rocked Baghdad for the third consecutive day on Thursday. By one count, it's been the deadliest three-day period in weeks in Baghdad with 56 people killed in bombings. But the U.S. military puts the overall death toll at about five. Counting the dead has never been an exact science in Iraq, but the discrepancies appear to be widening as the political stakes grow.(AP Photo/Khalid Mohammed

[PeterUK]

I love the left's technique,create a problem with negative publicity then demand a solution.

"Now, Stone might actually have a good idea for Gitmo, too: He wants to release the guys we radicalized into de-radicalization programs in places like Saudi, Pakistan, Indonesia, etc"

Now that is just cruel.De-radicalisation in KSA is beheading,Pakistan a firing squad probably the same in Indonesia.
But this is hardly extending the rights Powell advocates.
You have pasted two conflicting links toothfairy.

[bad]

Well Peter, if they are all beheaded or placed in front of a firing squad, Obama will no longer have a problem.

[PeterUK]

Bad,
Just the start of his problems.Nobel Peace prize down the pan,piss off his imam.

[bad]

Imams ruin everything..

[Captain Hate]

Counting the dead has never been an exact science in Iraq, but the discrepancies appear to be widening as the political stakes grow.

Since DouchBeforeISmother seems to be extremely concerned about the accuracy of the Iraq death count, as an Ohioan I would like to send Jennifer Brunner there for some creative counting. Who knows, the dead may come to life once D'ohbumble is CIC.

[clarice]

I just love the notion of putting them into de-radicalization programs Reminds me of the good old days when Clinton simply remanded everyone to some dungeons in Syria and Egypt.

[PeterUK]

Yeah Clarice,but Hillary got out.

[Pofarmer]

Thursday, Nov. 13, 2008. Ali Jassim, 21, was one of 23 people killed in a string of bombings that rocked Baghdad for the third consecutive day on Thursday. By one count, it's been the deadliest three-day period in weeks in Baghdad with 56 people killed in bombings.

Well, Gee, I mean, right after the Presidential elections last week, I mean, really, who could have predicted that?

[PeterUK]

Yes,Obama should rush to Baghdad for free and unconditional talks with these people.Perhaps take Ayers along to give pick up some tips.

[verner]

The Obama Administration recipe for CHANGE:

A heaping scoop of Clinton retreads
mixed with
Bush foreign and domestic policy(cause only a fool would close Gitmo, retreat from Iraq or raise taxes during a recession)
and iced with
Sweet honey a la Richard Daley.

But since they voted for him, they would eat a c==p sandwich and call it filet mignon.

[PeterUK]

These are the kind of people they want to give justice to. Liberals,you can't shoot them but you can shit them.

[clarice]

You got me there, PUK, old fellow.

[willem]

Preventive Detention fits in quite nicely with the national youth conscription program and the new National Police force.

They are SO PROGRESSIVE!!

Don't kid yourself about this not being able to make it through the current Congress. You forget the CPC runs things now.

Soon they'lll be turning over the DHS to the SEIU. Cheney's got the camps already built. What's good for the unions is good for America.

Reeducation workers of the world Unite!!

[Pofarmer]

Can somebody refresh me on the deal with Obama and the FEC.

[Angie Smith]

Powell advocates extending the rights of US citizens to those at Guantanamo? They don't believe in our society and our way of life and even without us doing anything to them they want to kill us? Are he and his liberal, left-wing idiot illuminati friends of that belief utterly stupid? He wants to kiss the hands of those who would behead him as soon as look at him? Hopefully, after his remarks, he'll fade into extinction. Thank God that man didn't run for President!!

[A single voice is significant]

The alumni deleted everything about Obama and sent out emails that pictures are bad. So, I guess they'll be okay except maybe for some strokes or seeing shit.

Obama's police are already at your school and their web site and paining. I don't think should go to Europe or some fifty odd countries.

[clarice]

(a) The FEC was unable to investigate anything during the election because the Dems failed to confirm anyone for the vacancy on the Commission and there was no quorum which could act.
(b) He rejected public financing so his election accounts won't be audited though once there's a quorum theoretically they could investigate some of the charges raised in the election.
(c) Because McCain took public financing, he will be audited and has set aside over $8 million in campaign funds to cover this cost though it might exceed that.

Short answer--anyone who opts for public financing is an idiot.

[Elliott]

He's not going to be audited because he didn't take public financing. I can't remember what the status is with the confirmation of FEC commissioners, but I believe that any investigation of a complaint would require 1) a quorom of commissioners (if they don't have one now) and 2) the support of at least one of the Democratic commissioners. That's all IIRC so I could be off.

My pressing question is where are all those revelations Jane was tantalizing us with this morning?

[Extraneus]

And why was there no quorum? Obama conveniently placed a "hold."

[Extraneus]

Short answer--anyone who opts for public financing is an idiot.

Need we say more? Not really.

[Barney Frank]

Short answer--anyone who opts for public financing is an idiot.

Indeed. And anyone who promises to opt for it but is a liar and opts out is a saint.

[RichatUF]

the new administration should seek Congressional authority for preventive detention of terrorism suspects deemed too dangerous to release even if they cannot be successfully prosecuted

Here in the US and civil libertarians and progressives are unbothered by this? Like I said, they are going to make minimum mandatories look well thought out and merciful once they close Gitmo.

[clarice]

Love this, from the link:
"Given that choice, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada chose the second option and stuck with it. Obama needed a functioning FEC - but neither he nor Reid were willing to pay the price of having von Spakovsky on the commission.
In a statement tonight, Obama said von Spakovsky "disqualified himself from this position by undermining the long tradition of professional, nonpartisan administration of voting rights laws at the Department of Justice."

Spakovsky's crime was approving Ga's requirement that voters show photo ID, something the Courts have approved and something 80% of the voters would acknowledge was sensible.

[PeterUK]

"the new administration should seek Congressional authority for preventive detention of terrorism suspects deemed too dangerous to release even if they cannot be successfully prosecuted".

Have they the right to prosecute them? According to their religion and laws they are not criminals,they see themselves as righteous.
Isn't prosecuting "terrorists" imperialism forcing western values on the third world? Isn't this what Obama and Ayers are against?

[Pofarmer]

Do you have any idea how much more difficult it is to do fake voter registration with photo id's???

C'mon, can't have that.

[rhymin' simon]

To bads Link to Steve DiamondThe most disturbing part of the cds saga is that most of it as per Michael Lewis's article in Portfolio.com was synthetic or hpothetical with no underlying assets.

When the fantasy crashed and everyone is trying to cash there chips Uncle Sam is there to print more money.

In another version of thi story don-t worry that the house you bought is not worth as much in $$$ as brfore, we will print ehough dollars to make your house worth what it was before.

[Pofarmer]

we will print ehough dollars to make your house worth what it was before.

Yeah, no worries, except that your money won't be worth what it was before.

[George S]

Methinks that Obama finally realizes the buck stops with him. Not as simple as mouthing mindless sound bites, eh Barry?

He's really got no choice so he's trying to put some political cover behind it by going to Congress.

Ain't it funny, though, how responsibility educates a person.

[clarice]

Ain't it? Like watching your kid who thinks the govt should take care of everything and everybody after he's seen how much he has lleft from his first paycheck after withholding tax is deducted.

[rhymin' simon]

Thats the point po, he liquidity to the credit crisis and what Bernanke is doing will not fix the problem. If anything it will exacerbate it.

[bad]

Ed Morrissey:

So what happens when the incoming Obama administration decides to continue indefinite detention and back away from Feinstein’s bill on interrogation techniques? Not only will the MoveOn/Code Pink crowd utterly revolt, but it will force a re-evaluation of the Bush administration’s efforts to keep this nation safe from attack — and the success he had in doing so.

Ed Morrissey has more faith than I do in the intellectual honesty of the left. I just don't see them being able to give Bush credit for anything.

[rhymin' simon]

What no comments about GE Capital asking for $139 Billion from Tarp while its NBC Brand was Obama's mouthpiece. What about a little conflict of interest.

[Extraneus]

Like watching your kid who thinks the govt should take care of everything and everybody after he's seen how much he has lleft from his first paycheck after withholding tax is deducted.

In the unlikely event the Republicans ever get the power the Democrats now have, their first bill should be to end witholding and make everyone pay up on April 15th.

[RichatUF]

RS-

he liquidity to the credit crisis and what Bernanke is doing will not fix the problem

So removing money and raising rates would?

[premiumsneverincrease]

Republicans don't want 'the power' and that's why dems are dems and luciferians claim they are dems.

Like under Bill all the repubs are going to be 'made' and have their bodies destroyed by the dems, so there won't be any repubs and everyone will say they are dems to be passed over by the luciferians, who got all that foreign aid money from Joe and Congress because Obama wanted to be President and put in orders and no one wanted to be assaulted by luciferians because Congress is a dem majority and luciferians expect them to do what they're told or die; so we have the mortgage problem that was created by dems.................

[RichatUF]

GE Capital asking for $139 Billion from Tarp

Whoa! Seems that Buffett's investment is in a spot of trouble. You got a link for the story-I've been keeping track of the automakers meltdown. Saw an article flagged up that the UAW won't make any concessions. That seems to seal the deal-I'd keep watch on Sunday for a surprise filing from one of the three.

[rhymin; simon]

sorry richtuf they were seeking FDIC insurance. My comment about liquidity is let the bankruptcies work their way through. Let the Chinese hang for being stupid. Do not support dying industries finance included and get out of AGW .

[bad]

Here's some info on another Obama staffer, Phillip Schiliro:

Much of Schiliro's career has been spent investigating allegations of wrongdoing under Waxman and the House Oversight Committee.

I guess he knows where the bodies are buried. He is also the brains behind the steroid investigation by congess. LUN

[clarice]

bad--try this--it's easy and the best bread I ever made/tasted.
http://www.williams-sonoma.com/recipe/recipedetail.cfm?objectid=3D454627-DD8E-4D0B-EE3171FF7FEA996D>Bread

[RichatUF]

RS-

It is probably worth reviewing the Zaibatsu system and the post-war Keiretsu system for the economic thinking of getting through the meltdown. Just throwing it out there. It wouldn't surprise me that a bunch of the Masters of the Universe managers at these firms would be looking at an asian corporatist solution for their problems and their job security. And what do you know-the Dem corporatist party will help them out for the right price.

Wonder how strongly the Dems will feel about larded up eco regulation once the automakers and the UAW have their say?

[bad]

Clarice, that recipe looks fantastic. My rosemary bush is always happy to contribute. I'll bet it smells heavenly as it bakes.

[everincrease]

Eco regulation is considered part of our infrastructure like the bridges, etc.

I guess the Japanese missed the Chinese bailout that was timed by Merrill as Barry ran and he sold out knowing it was guaranteed by the US government because they guaranteed 100s of billions at the Asia bank the next day like the US did with their aid and this was confusing to the free trade anti drug groups who didn't understand the CIA was running Colombia and that's why those land farmers, i mean drug terrorists, put Barry into their computer the day before they were executed, i mean shot escaping. The free trade Colombia thing was Barry getting set up, but that's what the mortgage thing was and it worked out nicely.

[PaulL]

Some of this luciferian stuff we've been treated to in recent months is beginning to make sense.

[RichatUF]

Also on your comment:

My comment about liquidity is let the bankruptcies work their way through.

The problem was 2 fold-the financial system and goods producers. I can't improve upon how Skeptical Optimist explains it: "The ultimate responsibility for the integrity of the money side of our economy rests with the government; but the ultimate responsibility for the real goods-and-services side in a capitalistic free-market system is almost always the market."

Let the Chinese hang for being stupid.

It's not just China, hell it isn't even primarily China. The Euro's property bubble on the Med and Ireland made ours in CA and FL look modest in comparison. The US can't export hundred of billions of dollars for oil, mostly going to hostile firm states, and expect to have a healthy and independent finanical sector. The other problem is that the CDS contracts on all this garbage and the Basal II rules have encouraged bear raid arsonists to burn everything down they can find.

[clarice]

bad, it does and the flavors permeate the bread. I've been studying this method, and understand that you can substitute some dried herbs and even things like a little chopped olives (cut back a bit on water if you do that). But cooking it in the very hot cast iron pot perfectly duplicates the best bakery oven--and nothing else ever did that.

[kim]

PaulL, yes, I'm quite intrigued. Sometimes, even without mention, there is a link under the name to some interesting stuff. Thanks, Craig.
===================

[RichatUF]

Some of this luciferian stuff we've been treated to in recent months is beginning to make sense.

I'll take your word for it. Jim has also seemed to have found the translator key. When I figure it out, it'll probably be time for me to get a hobby.

[Rick Ballard]

Rich,

The UAW has been making an honest attempt to increase production rates (particularly in Canada). They can point to that as they refuse to go any further, secure in the knowledge that their rent boy will "fix" the problem. Just as I am absolutely positive that many join me in considering the purchase of a UAW made product to be a self defeating gesture.

After reading Paulson's remarks carefully I'm getting the feeling that the banks are reacting to the continuing "jingle keys" phenomenon in a manner akin to the ruthless "minimum mandatory" which you mentioned above.

That's rather unsurprising in a nation chock full of individuals who claim the crown of philosopher-king wrt to developing their very own personal and unique moral and ethical code. Who in their right mind would loan money to Bob Smith when he proudly proclaims adherence to the Bob Smith Code of Conduct and no other? Only someone with good ole Bob's FICO score (triple verified) in their hands.

Because Bob's word isn't worth dirt.

[kim]

HillBuzz has a youtube of Shirley Bassey and the Propellerheads doing 'History Repeating' for a post on the planned investigations of the Bush Administrations. Seven minutes of fun.
============================================

[rhymin' simon]

A couple of thoughts, we are into no moral hazzard,, the ceo of these large companies are not paying for their mistakes we as either shareholders or taxpayers are. As Michael Lewis article said by becoming corporations the risk was placed on shareholders not management and they had an incentive for cooking the books.

Federal subsidies only impede growth rather then develop products. Clinton gave the Big Three subsidies to develop the hybrid and Toyota beat them to it. The same with AGW trop, the biofuel companies are soaking the the government for as much as they can for as long as they can.

Third all the industrial nations have to decide what is optimal employment rate in their countries. We are overproducing cars and other items to keep people gainfully employed, but there are not enough buyers or they have maxed out on credit.

[Terry Gain]

“[E]very morning I pick up a paper and some authoritarian figure, some person somewhere, is using Guantanamo to hide their own misdeeds,” Powell said. “[W]e have shaken the belief that the world had in America’s justice system by keeping a place like Guantanamo open… We don’t need it, and it’s causing us far more damage than any good we get for it.” Powell

The naivete (demonstrated by this statement) of someone who was SOS is breathtaking. As if the "authoritarian figures" are motivated by Gitmo. If Gitmo wasn't the excuse for their evil deeds, something else would be.

Those who claim to be worried about the reputation of the country should stop trashing it for political purposes.

[kim]

Powell is a worm. I don't know how he can look himself in the mirror.
==========

[kim]

I completely understand now the contempt with which George Bush treated his plea to hang on a little longer after the election in '04.
=====================================

[kim]

I wonder what Robert Gates thinks of him.
======================

[Pofarmer]

He is also the brains behind the steroid investigation by congess.

Well, considering that's the single stupidest thing that I've ever seen congress do, it fits Barry perfectly.

[CoOrdinatefinancialsystems]

The AIG people probably do most of the US government insurance, like Plame's 'I leaked myself.' If you check the guy in Pakistan or wherever who got shot they worked closely with AIG. What's funny is the pay off was probably pretty good, big family. If he was CIA, it was bigger. Like millions. Like his wife didn't want to marry him, but he was a way out............

If he was a provocateur he was stupid or he wanted to pay his wife off. AIG will probably pay out anyway. They always kill the driver.

The Canadian government has to run a deficit to take care of the rest of the world and buy US auto pensions?. They're going to throw out the PM. If he sells CBC's 1.1 billion a year they might keep him.

[Barney Frank]

Some of this luciferian stuff we've been treated to in recent months is beginning to make sense.

LOL

[kim]

Well, in a world gone mad.......
===================

[Ann]

Terry Gain,

Those who claim to be worried about the reputation of the country should stop trashing it for political purposes.

BRAVO!

The EuroDames much be to exhausted from all their partying with Mark Steyn to give us an update.

Don't get me wrong, the last first thing on my list of "wish I could's" is to be to exhausted from partying with Mark Steyn to do anything::wink::

[Rick Ballard]

"but there are not enough buyers or they have maxed out on credit."

More precisely - GMAC et al cannot bundle and sell the securities which used to allow them to offer credit to morons. Its a CDS redux problem - the trust is gone and the FICO noose is used as a tourniquet to stop the bleeding. Raise FICO minimum to 700 for car loans and GMAC has no problem peddling bonds. Raising FICO to 700 has the unfortunate side effect of limiting the qualified buyers pool to 35-40% of the population. At least half of the 35-40% remaining pool could write a check for any typical car any day of the week.

They won't, because who in their right minds would buy a car from a company threatening bankruptcy? Aside from the morons who no longer qualify, of course.

If you've ever wondered what happens when Ouroboros gets really, really hungry, you may find out very soon. After all, an eternal iconic image isn't quite the same as an eternal reality.

[MayBee]

Oh, Colin.

I remember when the Chinese used a Cincinnati police shooting of a black man as proof that we had no standing to criticize their human rights record.

When European/Australian tourists stop going to Dubai and Bali, I'll know their concern about prisons (like Guantanamo) is sincere.

[MayBee]

Oh, Clarice, that sounds like just the kind of nightmare it would be to build in Malibu. I've heard it is next to impossible.
Barbara Steisand got in a huge fight with some citizens of Malibu when she was building her house(s). She made it public, and her rantings are hilarious.

[Ann]

Maybee,

What is going on with the fires in Ca? Besides your pool, are you ok? I am not sure where you live but it must be frightening.

[MayBee]

Thanks, Ann.
The fires aren't really close to me and are not coming this way (knock on wood), but for some reason this is a really smokey, sooty fire. I live in a hilly area, and when I look at the low areas I can see the smoke just hanging there. It isn't very windy here, so I have a feeling the winds from there are whipping soot and ash this way, but then there's no wind to carry it much further.

[bad]

Maybee, I'm glad you are safe. Hopefully, you and your family are not plagued with breathing issues.

[MayBee]

Thanks, bad.
We are, thank God, absolutely fine. My husband and kids are out at a movie. We are blessed.
The firefighters and the people in harm's way (over 500 mobile homes lost in one area) are in my thoughts.

[narciso]

The truth is Obama will overreach; his ego and arrogance makes it inevitable, the only question is how much damage occurs in the interim. Anyone who's really studied the issue knows Quirin & Eisentrager; are the only valid precedent. That's why Hamdi,
Hamdan & Boumedienne, tried to ignore those precedents. Would the religious Right have ever been moved to action first with the 1962 Engel v. Vitale decision banning public
prayer (which misinterpreted anti-Catholic
regulation; and Carter's regulations against
private schools. Would the Prolife movement
have materialized without Roe. Who thought
Gay marriage was even a thought until Romer
v Colorado and Roper v. Simmons, What crazyness will Greg Craig (god help us)bring to fruition. An endorsement of polygamy; incest, a total ban on firearms.