Bringing The War On Terror Home

The NY Times front-pages (below the fold) a dispute on eavesdropping between the Justice Dept and the NYPD.  New York's Finest think that the Feds are too cautious in presenting and approving FISA applications for surveillance of terrorism suspects, thereby endangering the greatest city in the world.  The Times duly notes that the Feds are unlikely to become more aggressive in their use of surveillance under Obama.  Hey - extremisim in the defense of civil liberties is no vice, yes?  And if the cost is a few thousand dead New Yorkers, well, freedom has its price.  Here we go:

WASHINGTON — An effort by the New York Police Department to get broader latitude to eavesdrop on terrorism suspects has run into sharp resistance from the Justice Department in a bitter struggle that has left the police commissioner and the attorney general accusing each other of putting the public at risk.

The Police Department, with the largest municipal counterterrorism operation in the country, wants the Justice Department and the Federal Bureau of Investigation to loosen their approach to the federal law that governs electronic surveillance. But federal officials have refused to relax the standards, and have said requests submitted by the department could actually jeopardize surveillance efforts by casting doubt on their legality.

Much later in the story the gist of that dispute is fleshed out.  The NYPD thinks that the Justice Dept. ought to take even the "close call" warant applications to the FISA court; if some are turned down, so be it. 

Arguing the other side, Justice claims that FISA approvals come quickly because the judges know that the applications have been carefully vetted and are of the highest standard; if judges have to pause and reflect on the close calls, eventually they will pause and reflect on everything, thereby slowing the well-oiled process and jeopardizing us all.  Bureaucracy in action. 

The Obama mention comes early:

New York’s department, as a local police force, cannot apply directly [to the FISA court], but must seek warrants through the F.B.I. and the Justice Department. The police want those agencies to expedite their requests, and say that the federal agencies unfairly blocked the city’s applications for surveillance warrants, first in June and then in September. The disagreement, in which the Bush Justice Department has taken a more cautious approach than police officials, is something of an unexpected twist for an administration that has more often seemed willing to stretch legal boundaries to fight terrorism.

...

Even in the best of times, the police and the F.B.I.’s New York office can be quarrelsome partners, and current and former officials say the dispute between the two — which share overlapping responsibilities for security in New York — has brought the relationship to a new low.

The inability of the Justice Department to resolve the conflict may mean that the matter ends up in the hands of Eric H. Holder Jr., who is expected to be nominated by President-elect Barack Obama to become the next attorney general. Based on Mr. Obama’s statements during the campaign, it appears unlikely that his administration would adopt a more permissive attitude toward eavesdropping than the Bush administration.

Change we can believe in.  Suck it up. 

ERRATA:  Those with a long memory will recall that when the Times first broke the warrantless eavesdropping story the high approval rate of FISA applications was cited by Bush critics as proof that the FISA process was a rubber stamp upon which Bush should have relied; others explained that a high approval rate may mean something else entirely, which appears to be the case.  Sorry, just now my memory exceeds my Googling time...

Comments

[bad]

Whatever the future holds, the NYTimes is safe. Al Quaida won't waste a bomb on them.

[Vinman]

Dang, Tom. . .Can't keep up with you today!

[neuddelia]

Классно, вещь полезная!

[JM Hanes]

Imagine the NYTimes' chagrin when they discover they didn't need to credit BushCo with caution. Apparently, their vaunted investigative journalists weren't burning the Midnight Rule Making oil: "Law Enforcement Would Get Greater Surveillance Authority."

[Pofarmer]

Wow. Oil is trying to bust $50.

[clarice]

When it comes to fighting terrorism, I can only hope that Holder and Obama's other friends were like the NYT--utter hypocrites.

[PeterUK]

"The Bush Justice Department has taken a more cautious approach than police officials, is something of an unexpected twist for an administration that has more often seemed willing to stretch legal boundaries to fight terrorism."

It's called,"The new management will hang us out to dry to make a political point,so least done soonest mended".

[RichatUF]

Pofarmer-

from drudge

This little nugget out to make Rick misty eyed:

Oil market sentiment was also dampened this week after broker Goldman Sachs said it would close all of its oil trading recommendations as the US investment bank "did not expect significant upside potential.

Good job Goldman Sachs, well-played.

[RichatUF]

out->ought

[Dick C.]

"McInturff [McCain's official pollster] said that the most effective commercial of the campaign was the Spanish-language spot, put up by the now president-elect, which claimed that conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh was a McCain ally on immigration."

Suh-weeet!

[kim]

Heh, the market will fluctuate. Climate, too.
===========================

[kim]

Lingua de retilo.
==========

[matt]

seems like the Times is just flip flopping all over itself now to somehow rationalize the successes of the Bush Administration and rationalize Obama's continuation of same....why am I not surprised?

[Pofarmer]

Oil market sentiment was also dampened this week after broker Goldman Sachs said it would close all of its oil trading recommendations as the US investment bank "did not expect significant upside potential.

speechless. So much for the perma bulls.

[JM Hanes]

Dick C:

LOL! I'm not sure I'd be all that thrilled to know how effectively my candidate can lie through his teeth.

[Dick C.]

Spare me the lie crap, yellowcakes.

The beauty of it is hanging Limbaugh around Republican necks like the big fat lead weight he is and dragging them down to the depths. Forever.

Too delicious. Palin 2012? Please. Hell, Limbaugh really is her ally!

[bad]

The beauty of a lie is too delicious. Got it dick.

[clarice]

Dick, anyone ever tell you what an appropriate name you have?

Now for the others, my pistolas are locked and loaded.

[JM Hanes]

Dickie:

I'll put you down as an extra for the Colosseum scene where the hoi polloi go positively orgasmic at the sight of blood.

[Dick C.]

I take my name in salute to the biggest Dick this nation has ever seen Clarice.

And sorry bad, but for any JOM regular to feign horror at a lie is a little f'in ridiculous, (although not more so than being a JOM regular).

It's true the Obama campaign commercial wasn't under oath at the time, so I acknowledge it fails to meet you standard Bush regime standards of lying, still, give Obama a little time to get up to speed.

[PeterUK]

"The beauty of it is hanging Limbaugh around Republican necks like the big fat lead weight he is and dragging them down to the depths. Forever."

The Fuckwit obviously wants a one party state.

[PeterUK]

Would that be THE Dick Cretin?

[bad]

It's true the Obama campaign commercial wasn't under oath at the time...

hmm, ya really want to use that argument?

[Dick C.]

I don't need to argue bad!

That's the beauty of it. I don't have to battle your bullshit for at least 4 sweet years.

Your types have no political power. You are as irrelevant as you have so long deserved to be.

And judging by the anti-genius thinking I se from the right, your exile will be longer than Gilligan's!

[bad]

I don't have to battle your bullshit for at least 4 sweet years.

And you are here because...?

[PeterUK]

bad,
If that was on Obama's CV for an ordinary job... Just part of the great ponzi scheme of lies on which the president elect built his life.

[PeterUK]

"I don't have to battle your bullshit for at least 4 sweet years.

And you are here because...?"

Dick Cretin is here because of the tight knot of fear in his gut,they all have it.Progressives are going nowhere.

[Dick C.]

I never give up on sinners.

[Dick C.]

Well, Puk may be too far gone.

[PeterUK]

Oh look whilst the Democrats procrastinate, the world is falling out of Obama's bottom.

[U]

Then last week, Weaver says, he was watching television when another message from God came to him. "The glory of the Lord has departed from the Democratic Party," Weaver says, reading from the message. "You have chosen a secular messiah. . . . You will see the Democrats take America farther down the road to insecurity."

LBW

[bad]

I never give up on sinners.

The messiah thing is a bit out of hand.

[PeterUK]

Nice to have Dick Cretin,it is as if syphiliticleo never left us.

[DrJ]

There are other interpretations, bad. Barack Hussei Nobama. 666. Mark of the devil. :)

[PeterUK]

"I never give up on sinners."

"Let those who are without sin cast the first stone".

[JM Hanes]

Looks to me like Dickie really needs some stones, PUK. How does a powerful, relevant guy like that get stuck trying to run his victory laps in a place like this?

[PeterUK]

Drj

There have been rumours that Obama is the AntiChrist.Not saying Dick C is strangling babies in their cots for the One,probably waiting for instructions,but winning does not seem to have made them less rabid.

[clarice]

Why should it,PUK? They campaigned their tushies off to keep Clinton out of office only to find out The One had subcontracted out the entire operation to her.

[clarice]

I thought it was let those without stones, cast the first sin...shows you...

[richard mcenroe]

Looks like it's time for the cops to bring back the old Red Squads...

[Jane]

I don't have to battle your bullshit for at least 4 sweet years.

The irony of you showing up to announce that is nothing short of delicious. What dear Dick will you find to do with yourself?

[bad]

I don't have to battle your bullshit...

Like FISA?

[Appalled]

If a blog dissenter is going to give himself the name Dick -- well, he either has stones, or he has no comprehension of the stones that will be flung his way...

[PeterUK]

"What dear Dick will you find to do with yourself?"

Well another monotestacular celebrity invaded Poland. What those with an empty jockstrap do I'm not sure,cruise the Bay Area?

[Rick Ballard]

"This little nugget ought to make Rick misty eyed"

What would make me misty eyed would be Goldman-Sachs investment bankers suspended by hemp from every light pole in Manhattan.

OTOH - I will be very dry eyed should GS as a company sink beneath the waves generated by their idiotic promotion of Peak Oil, just as I will be dry eyed when Treasury announces that Citi is no longer among the living. They both deserve capital punishment.

Oil closed under $50 and it's trading under $49 on Globex. Citi closed at $4.71 and NYT at $5.72. I still think $0 is the correct price for both of them - and I think they can get there.

[bgates]

I thought it was let those without stones, cast the first sin
No, that's what it would be if you read it right to left.
...
Huh.

[bad]

As president, Bush scuttled the playing of "Hail to the Chief" in his honor...

Will Obama resurrect Hail to the Chief or just go with Handel's Messiah?

[Pagar]

"And you are here because...?

IMO, the words Obama supporter and socialist are interchangeable.

Here's an experienced voice:

"Azuno Rodriguez"

to explain:

"I have never met an intelligent socialist and I don’t think I ever will, even though I have met a lot of them in my lifetime."

"Socialism has an irrefutably perfect track record of total failure. Any socialist has to be blind or stupid to believe that such an economically barren system could actually function to the benefit of anyone other than these moron leaders that infect their societies with ignorance. "

"It is my firm belief that if the socialist president-elect is not dumb, then he is intent on destroying this country in the name of our enemies. Either way, dumb or smart, this Country of ours will lose."

Babalu Blog has had some great posts lately, and this is one of the best. Cuba under Castro is the perfect example of what America is now faced with,IMO. The Obama supporters that think the next four years are going to bring paradise to them, might want to check with the original Castro supporters.

[Dick C.]

Oh you tired and and toothless old tigers, I said I didn't HAVE to do battle with you anymore. And why would I, you have no teeth!

Dropping by to poke you with a stick, and at least make you move your raggedy bones, is a whole 'nother ball game, however.

[kim]

We're just quivering with delight over the succession of clowns, criminals and terminal nincompoops Obama is assembling for his juggernaut. Quick, pal, get out of the way.
====================================

[bad]

dickie, I prefer "cougar"...gives me great visuals.

[PeterUK]

Apparently the helicopter that the president elect and the Vice president elect were traveling in when in Afghanistan went down with engine trouble.They were immediately surrounded by Taleban.Joe Biden said to Barrack Hussein Obama,"We're in trouble Your Highness".
The answer was "Who's we white eyes".

[cathyf]

The Bush Justice Department has taken a more cautious approach than police officials, is something of an unexpected twist for an administration that has more often seemed willing to stretch legal boundaries to fight terrorism.

Well, when you go through life relying on imaginary information, it gets really perplexing when reality intrudes...

[clarice]

Rick, How long before New Yorkers take notice that they are no longer America's financial capital? That greedy pigs with MBAs achieved what Al Qaeda could not?

Well, there's always a brights die. Maybe all those multi million dollar condos will lose value and the city will once again be safe for non-investment bankers and hedge fund sharpies.

Maybe there will even be decent plays again on Broadway, not just revivals and musicals for tourists.

[clarice]

Good point, cathy.

I do so hope that there will be one or two honest--not schlessinger of Kearns type lying bastard historians--around when the time to write up President Bush' time in office comes up.

The man is a saint.

[PeterUK]

"Oh you tired and and toothless old tigers, I said I didn't HAVE to do battle with you anymore. And why would I, you have no teeth!"

Not much of a fucking gladiator are you? All this talk of battle,I bet you are a pacifist.Bugger off and amuse your self by abusing yourself.

[Rick Ballard]

"Rick, How long before New Yorkers take notice that they are no longer America's financial capital?"

Not very long. JPM gave the boot to 10% of its investment banking personnel today. 3K jobs gone in Manhattan. Nice folks, I'm sure. They can get in the unemployment line behind like numbers from GS, much bigger numbers from Citi and all those great Lehman folk who got the sack somewhat earlier. The WaMu firings weren't in Manhattan so they won't affect the real estate market.

I'll bet it's a lot easier to get a decent table in a restaurant these days. I'll bet it's going to get even easier shortly.

I believe I'll save my prayers for Glenda's daughters though. And for the small entrepreneurs who will be responsible for rebuilding once this debacle runs its course.

[narciso]

Boy that investment in Barry by Citigroup and JP Morgan really paid off, huh.

[bad]

Maybe some of those investment folks will tar and feather the Govenor:

The Paterson administration has plunked down $21,0000 for a Turkish carpet for the governor's mansion in Albany.

LUN

[RichatUF]

Rick-

LOL. On a more serious note, I'm curious if Prince al-Waleed will close up his wallet in the not too distant future. He's made a fortune on the investment all through the 1990's and it doesn't appear that those guys are going to right the ship (do they still have all those offshore SIV's that were causing them problems earlier in the year). Aren't they also one of the largest issuers of credit cards in the US and they've just stopped on foreclosure activities? The Treasury unfortunately shoveled $25 billion into it already (which is probably safe in Switzerland and Dubai right now) so they probably fell obligated (and to keep the Dems happy) will shovel a few tens of billions more into it. Any ideas on who the FDIC would even order to take the carcass? It would be funny if it were Wells.

[bad]

Dunn was the campaign’s transition liaison to the White House and was a top strategist on the campaign’s role at the Democratic Convention, including the triumphal acceptance speech by then-Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) at Invesco Field at Mile High.

Remind me again where Dunn was asked to serve..

LUN

[RichatUF]

fell->feel: to late in the day for coffee, but I really could use a cup.

[bad]

darn, LUN for Dunn story.

[Rick Ballard]

"do they still have all those offshore SIV's that were causing them problems earlier in the year"

They just brought back $17 billion in SIVs or so yesterday or the day before. I think that's it. You're right about the other stuff regarding credit cards and stopping foreclosures. That's all going to be the FDIC's problem shortly. I note that GMAC has applied for bank status as well.

Just one big happy, broke, bank. The fire break didn't work and the back fires aren't working. The smell from all the roasting capitalist pigs should be drawing muslim oil money by the ton. It's almost as if they have something against pork.

[richard mcenroe]

"Maybe there will even be decent plays again on Broadway, not just revivals and musicals for tourists."

Sorry, Clarice. Look for a couple of seasons of nothing but noble gays trying to marry in a callous world that keeps them apart...

[clarice]

Rick, I am a rather optimistic person by nature . And since there are many times in my life when I lived well on virtually nothing, I tend not to be so worried about financial problems in the world.
But I am in a bad mood today. Really.I'm inclined to believe as I look at Congress and the increased power of the CBC and Obama's election as if I lived in stupid land--a place where people so desirous of wanting to do the right thing were blinded to the fact that socialists were successfully using race to hide their agenda and it's a stupid, bad agenda..and it was sold to a fat and happy and healthy nation which was just not paying attention at all.

[clarice]

Oh, God, richard..I hope you're wrong.

[narciso]

That's starting to sound like that horrible Fonda and Christopherson financial thriller
"Rollover You do inadvertently put attention on an interesting argument. It's not in anyone's real interest for oil to be under $50.00 a barrel. Putin needs to build
us his legacy as the second Czar Paul. Iran
needs matching nose cones, the Saudi's can't hold the Ilkwan off for ever, the Chinese need three of everything; and we my friends; are still going to need fuel for crops, manufacturing and running these intertubes. Otherwise it really will be like Rollover.

[Jane]

So what is with the cyber attack on the Pentagon?

[RichatUF]

Rollover-wow 1981. More more things change the more they stay the same.

I didn't hear about that bit regarding GMAC and curious how they could have done it with Cerberus owning 51% of GMAC. Hummm, a backdoor way to funnel TARP money into GM and Chysler-too cute by half?

On oil crashing below $50/bbl...shoulder shrug...its down 2/3's in 4 months...

[Rick Ballard]

"the Chinese need three of everything"

That's the only one I disagree with. Away from the littoral there's still way too much "6 chickens = 1 pig" market for the Chinese to need three of anything. The Chinese have a "better to save than consume" attitude that is analogous to the Japanese and the vaunted stimulus package is going to go nowhere in creating an attitude toward consumption which has never existed.

Besides which, China buys heavy crude at a deep discount. Hell, they teamed up with Aramco to build a state of the art (less expensive pollution controls) heavy oil refinery to handle oil from the KSA's new heavy oil fields.

I wonder when the Russians will blow up the Baku pipeline?

[DrJ]

Since so many seem down today, let me give one (very minor!) bit of good news. My wife is taking me out for a sumptuous birthday dinner.

[jimrhoads aka vnjagvet]

If BHO is teh Messiah, why has the stock market declined so much since his election?

Just askin'. Was it the rumor that the RW is the heir apparent to Condoleeza?

[bad]

Happy Birthday, DrJ!!!

[RichatUF]

Rick-

Good call on the Chinese stimulus program. I was looking around to see how much of it was smoke and mirrors-spending that was already in the can they just renamed. Seems that the "Masters of the Universe" really wanted to just take their word for it (hehe). One fly in the ointment too, which was flagged up by Wizbang.

[hit and run]

Happy B-Day DrJ!

[Rick Ballard]

Rich,

I don't think it's for TARP money. It's for different treatment in bankruptcy. Just like AmEx and GE. Everybody's stretching that last cigarette and trying to decide if they want the blindfold.

I would hope that we'll see a better class of people in finance after the Entracte but I haven't a clue as to where they would come from. Midwestern mutual fund managers who can actually count? I still trust a number of mutual funds outside of the cesspools of Manhattan.

It's amusing in the sense that finance is all about the proper application of fertilizer. It's a friction cost in business, not a primary component. It's time it became a very boring aspect of business once again.

[clarice]

Birthday greetings, Dr J.

[Antimedia]

bad

Whatever the future holds, the NYTimes is safe. Al Quaida won't waste a bomb on them.

They might send them a thank you note and a small check though.

[RichatUF]

Happy Birthday DrJ.

And to Glenda, I'll say a prayer for your family. Hope things turn around for them and for Galveston.

[Rick Ballard]

"If BHO is the Messiah, why has the stock market declined so much since his election?"

We've cast aside all thoughts of earthly matters as we await the Rapture of January 21?

Commie bastards aren't noted as friends of capitalism?

I'm sure it's one of those two choices and I have suspicions concerning which is more likely.

Happy Bday, DrJ.

[Porchlight]

Cheers DrJ and happy birthday! Hope you have a lovely dinner.

[rhymin' simon]

Barack's dinner party has been transformed into a facebook community. The internet has not seen the bubble yet, but wait until all the retailers who have been advertising on google go belly up after the first of the year and google tanks. Then we will see fear and panic.

The question will be which country has civil unrest first.
The CDS created synthetic liquidity which allowed consumers to overextend credit. The worst thing about is that geniuses like Buffett are doing it to.
It is great to see that the SEC is investigating the Wachovia Golden West deal. The Bush Administration should open and make public investigations on some of the corrupt practices and see how Obama administration reacts when some of its sponsors will be implicated.

[U]

farther down the road............

[Antimedia]

Rick Ballard

I would hope that we'll see a better class of people in finance after the Entracte but I haven't a clue as to where they would come from. Midwestern mutual fund managers who can actually count?

Down here in Texas we have a bank advertising on the radio that they are solid, dependable and never partook of the subprime mortgage business.

In other good news today, I read the Warren Buffet's Hathaway has lost 70% of its value. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

[RichatUF]

Yeah!!!! Asia to gap lower by about 4% in most markets.

And Rick bankruptcy for GE, AMEX, and GMAC? Ouch. Wouldn't that really sting Berkshire Hathaway-they have big stakes in both AMEX and now GE (wonder if he wants a refund-on both GE and his rental contract with Obama)?
Curious, I don't recall this when Obama was trumpeting Buffett's support.

[bad]

AP to cut workforce by about 10%. LUN via Reuters

[centralcal]

Happy Birthday to my fellow California-ite, DrJ!

[Pofarmer]

Man there are a lot of self righteous Kathleen Parker "conservatives" out there saying that we need to shift more to the center. I'm sick of it and about to quit the blogs and maybe take up needlepoint or something.

As an Aside. I happened to need to talk to a couple of farmers and guys I do business with today. Both of them are still talking about the election, and not happily. Folks around here don't normally talk politics, but they brought it up. Neither one of them can beleive that we just elected our first socialist President. I tell you, a LOT of people are watching this new administration. If he fucks up, people are going to realize it.

[clarice]

About that Pritzker nomination so quickly withdrawn that we'd barely had time to make light of it--why? Thom Lifson thought it was simply to flatter her ego. Anyone have any better idea? I mean surely the vetters could not have been so clueless..all this stuff is available at the touch of a finger.

[clarice]

Po, I'm starting a new business and you can get in on the ground floor--selling sharpened pikes to visitors to this fair city--I figure the market demand will only increase with time.

[bad]

About that Pritzker nomination so quickly withdrawn that we'd barely had time to make light of it--why?

What ever the reason, it.was.not.politically.based. This is a new day, a new way, hope and change.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[Pofarmer]

O.K. I'm looking for McCains poll numbers with dates to things like the Palin nomination and the bailout vote, etc.

[clarice]

Po, you might try foraging thru the Rasmussen site or RCP..they may still have the polls by date.

[Rick Ballard]

Rich,

Contingency planning. When Citi goes it's going to be a rough bit. As I said, no fire break, no success with back fires. There's also the little problem of "unknown unknowns" wrt CDS.

What's intriguing about this is that there is nothing essentially wrong with the world economy aside from the not so enormous speculative excess in housing which ended two years ago.

[BobS]

Hi, Gang! Wish I didn't want to know poll numbers at this late date.

[BobS]

I think the O won this through his illegal campaign $$$$

[Pofarmer]

Yeah, I found what I was looking for at RCP. It's pretty depressing, actually. After a very clear Palin bounce, they managed to squander it all by pandering to the MSM instead of just ignoring them and going on the attack.

So, what do you think the conventional wisdom inside the Republican party is with regards to Palin?

[Pofarmer]

I think the O won this through his illegal campaign $$$$

Dad said that he saw on one of the news channels, probably FOX, that there was apparently a bunch of money funnelled to Barack Hussein through Haiti, among other places.

[clarice]

Well if he did, Bob S, you can be sure AG Holder will have no more interest in investigating than he did checking inot the Clinton funny money.