Leaving Some Running Room

Andrew Sullivan reads the NY Times coverage of the impending Obama flip-flop on enhanced interrogation and is aghast:

The front-page piece in the NYT today on Obama's thorny task in staffing the CIA, after seven years of its violation of the Geneva Conventions, is revealing in many ways. Like many in the MSM, the NYT cannot bring itself to describe the techniques that the CIA has used as "torture."

Big Skip and...

This is the strategy of the torture defenders: render this debate once again a red-blue, right-left ding-dong, culture war struggle. It isn't. It's a foundational, moral and constitutional issue that transcends all those categories. And the NYT does its readers a disservice in occluding that.

Uh huh.  But this topic will stop being transcendental once Obama reluctantly (but thoughtfully!) concludes that the CIA must be granted special latitude with its prisoners.  The Times commitment on this issue mirrors their commitment on, oh, public financing of Presidential campaigns or Obama's FISA flip-flop - both were expedient issues for Republican-bashing whose usefulness ended once Obama picked a contrary direction. 

INTERESTING BUT IN DENIAL:  Greenwald details the backpedaling of Senate Dem leaders Feinstein and Wyden and provides some amusement:

What makes this so notable is that, for the last year, Feinstein and Wyden were both insistent that the only way to end torture and restore America's standing in the world was to require CIA compliance with the Army Field Manual -- period.  But as long as George Bush was President, it was cheap and easy for Feinstein and Wyden to argue that, because they knew there was no chance it would ever happen.  As they well knew, they lacked the votes to override Bush's inevitable veto of any such legislation. So as long as Bush was President, it was all just posturing, strutting around demanding absolute anti-torture legislation they knew would never pass. 

But that has all changed now.  Although Obama's top intelligence adviser, John Brennan, has questioned whether it was necessary or wise to do so, Obama himself said repeatedly and unequivocally during the campaign that he supports legislation to compel CIA compliance with the Army Field Manual, making it virtually impossible for him to veto any such legislation if Congress passes it.  Thus, Senate Democrats now know that if they pass the law they claimed so vehemently to support, it would actually get enacted.

Right.  Obama could not veto any such legislation because that be a flip-flop reminiscent of his FISA repositioning, which almost cost him... well, nothing, actually.

As a practical matter, Obama won't be vetoing an anti-"torture" bill; he will just send smoke signals discouraging folks like Feinstein from sending him anything awkward.  Sort of like what seems to be happening now.

I like this:

Several members of Congress, such as Rush Holt, have called on Obama not to wait for Congress to act and, instead, to immediately issue an Executive Order compelling government-wide compliance with the Army Field Manual.  Obama should do that.  But, as Holt recognizes, this is really an area where Congress can and must legislate.

Then we will all find out together when that Executive Order is issued.  Or not.

Comments

[kim]

I've said all along that waterboarding should be legal and highly regulated. Safe, legal, and rare, so to speak.

There is no doubt that the al Qaeda members waterboarded under the Bush administration revealed critical information that saved lives.

I've also claimed that if waterboarding is not regulated, it will be abused. Front line troops, who've just tried to kill someone who is trying to kill them, will not always cavil at waterboarding to gain actionable intelligence, particularly with their buddies lives at stake.
=======================

[Appalled]

Since Sullivan is to consistancy what Spears is to sobriety, let's at least give him props for choosing principle over his current candidate infatuation.

I think Mr. Sullivan is likely to be disappointed in what happens, which I imagine will result in some rather bitter blogging.

[bgates]

Give Sullivan some credit. He may be vicious to anyone who disagrees with his religious beliefs, and anyone who agreed with him on any issue during 2001-2003, and he may have snookered tens of thousands of dollars out of readers in the name of "bandwidth", and he may trumpet Weekly World News-level conspiracy theories about Sarah Palin's family....

Where was I going with this?

[Forbes]

Q: How many other policies that the Obama administration adopts as realistic and pragmatic--and are a continuation of Bush policies--will the NYTimes give cover to?

A: All of them.

[kim]

bgates, I say you were headed for a credit crunch.
===============================

[kim]

I wanta bumper sticker that says 'Obama=Bush III'.
=====================================

[MayBee]

If Andrew Sullivan wasn't on the forefront of the Koran in the toilet = prisoner mistreatment and fake menstrual blood = torture brigade, I could think he had a point about the whole "supporters of torture" try to redefine the debate bit.

[SteveMG]

But remember, Sullivan practices "true conservatism", to wit a conservatism of doubt, an anti-ideology that recognizes the moral complexities of the world and the limits of human reason.

Yes he does.

He's just full of doubt.

[clarice]

Frankly having to read anything that whacked out poseur says these days is torture to me.

[SteveMG]

It's a foundational, moral and constitutional issue that transcends all those categories.

This concern coming from the same person who advocated (still does) abandoning Iraq - the Iraqi people be damned.

So, pouring water over three terrorist's faces is a transcendent moral issue but abandoning tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of women and children to the depredations of fanatical terrorists can be dismissed with a wave of the hand.

How that makes sense mystifies me. But Sullivan is a mystery to many people.

[PeterUK]

Knm.
I think OBAMA = BUSH LITE will strike a chord.

[s1c]

Well, he always loses me when he states the violation of the Geneva Convention.

"Article 4 defines prisoners of war to include:
4.1.1 Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict and members of militias of such armed forces
4.1.2 Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, provided that they fulfill all of the following conditions:
that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance (there are limited exceptions to this among countries who observe the 1977 Protocol I);
that of carrying arms openly;
that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. "

Am still waiting to see those distinctive signs and waiting to see the signatures of Al- whoever.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

bgates, I say you were headed for a credit crunch.

She shoots, she scores.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Waterboarding is nothing more than the "pumping" practiced at Peabody's Groton on recalcitrant students like Teddy Roosevelt, Jr., and Peabody's son.

And that was the easy stuff:

As described in an American Heritage article written twenty-eight years ago:

Corporal punishment at Groton was administered by the older boys under the direction of the prefects. Younger boys who were insolent to their elders or who violated the sensitive Grotonian canons of good form were subjected to an ordeal called “pumping” in which the culprit’s head was held face-up under a gushing water spigot. The time of submersion was carefully limited by stopwatch to ten seconds, but this was ample to produce the unpleasant sensation of drowning; and it would be repeated until the boy showed the proper humility. Little Teddy Roosevelt, Jr., a few weeks before his father was inaugurated as Vice-President, was pumped for being “fresh and swell-headed.” Half-drowned but still spouting defiance after two immersions, he escaped being put under for a third time: the boys admired his pluck. Malcolm Peabody, the rector’s own son, was pumped because the older boys didn’t like his “tone.”

Waterboarding seems to have taken on a more symbolic importance as "torture" than reality justifies.

[PeterUK]

Perhaps Sully would like to have a civilised chat with this man

[Semanticleo]

"oh, public financing of Presidential campaigns or Obama's FISA flip-flop - both were expedient issues for Republican-bashing whose usefulness ended once Obama picked a contrary direction."

Or, Maguire could be wrong AGAIN, and it could be a Trojan Horse to provide a false sense of security to those who should be brought to account.

Solidify your power base BEFORE you exorcise the demons in the Body Politic.

Libby is sure to be pardoned during the political cover of the Holidays, but Bush cannot pardon anyone BEFORE they're indicted, and pardon powers will be out of his hamster-handed reach when he leaves the WH.

[clarice]

I often didn't like Malcom's "tone" either..wish I could've "pumped" him then.

[Pofarmer]

Waterboarding seems to have taken on a more symbolic importance as "torture" than reality justifies.

Ya think?

[Captain Hate]

Frankly having to read anything that whacked out poseur says these days is torture to me.

I'm very grateful that AoS no longer links to that lunatic's site.

[peter]

Ford pardoned Nixon before he was indicted.

[clarice]

What? You're trying to inject some facts into this Semantic screed?

[Semanticleo]

"summer of 1974. In July, the House Judiciary Committee approved three articles of impeachment against him — for obstruction of justice, abuse of power and contempt of Congress."

"Ford pardoned Nixon before he was indicted."

Excellent historical comparison, but an indictment was a forgone conclusion, and it's imminence vaulted Ford to action. Ford believed nixon guilty of high crimes.

Bush has no such pang of guilt, sees no danger, listens to no one but the voices in his head. Even if he thought himself culpable, it's unlikely he would risk his legacy with such an incriminating a notion as pardoning himself. Even Nixon knew he couldn't pardon himself, even though, in theory, he could.

[largebill]

Peter,

Don't bother. There is no sense in trying to reason with someone like that who wouldn't let facts cloud his left wing opinions.

[SteveMG]

but Bush cannot pardon anyone BEFORE they're indicted, and pardon powers will be out of his hamster-handed reach when he leaves the WH.

Sure, let's have the leftwing haul before Congress or the courts those who were protecting this nation from the types of fanatics who did their dirty work in India this past week.

Yep, let's have at it.

This from the same self-righteous crowd that wanted to surrender to the terrorists in Iraq and leave the Iraqi people defenseless.

Please, let's have at it.

[RichatUF]

Clinton pardoned a fugitive from justice.

[PeterUK]

The only thing that allows Andrew Sullivan to be Andrew Sullivan is that there are those who will do what he will not to protect him. Let him take up residence in the Tribal Lands.

[Captain Hate]

Bush has no such pang of guilt, sees no danger, listens to no one but the voices in his head.

He doesn't have an imaginary "son" in Iraq.

[Semanticleo]

"He doesn't have an imaginary "son" in Iraq.'

No, but he does have an imaginary 'legacy'.

[glenda waggoner]

Clinton pardoned blood money pigs. And his AG designate helped. So did HRC and her brothers. Bush, no matter how all affected with BDS rant, put our security and freedoms before popularity polls.
By the way, I thought Chris Wallace showed a depth of character calling Dalek out on his unfactual Nixon/Bush comparisons. So much of what semants believe is utter BS pushed by a left media in concert with bureaucrats who will never be brought to the bar.

[Captain Hate]

No, but he does have an imaginary 'legacy'.

He has a real birth certificate

[PeterUK]

"No, but he does have an imaginary 'legacy'."

Like his work on AIDS in Africa.Ooops,that's real!

[Elliott]

No, but he does have an imaginary 'legacy'.

Oh, so he doesn't owe it all to his father. Good to know.

[Semanticleo]

"Clinton pardoned blood money pigs. And his AG designate helped. So did HRC and her brothers. Bush, no matter how all affected with BDS rant, put our security and freedoms before popularity polls.
By the way, I thought Chris Wallace showed a depth of character calling Dalek out on his unfactual Nixon/Bush comparisons. So much of what semants believe is utter BS pushed by a left media in concert with bureaucrats who will never be brought to the bar."

Well said fer a hah skool grajate.

[PeterUK]

Captain Hate,
That was a low blow,were you trying to hit Septic's brain?

[RichatUF]

Also, from Obama's handbook: his various walkbacks and flip-flops will be found under:

Law 45: Preach the Need for Change, but Never Reform too much at Once.

Obama will use the banking and financial crisis to cram down his welfare programs and tax increases without too much revolt. He won't also destabilize the fp and ic establishment to bring about his Orientalist vision too quickly because he isn't the only independent actor on the stage, and even though he wouldn't care too much, a terrorist attack would undermine his plans. He'll wait, identify his allies and spies in the bureaucracy, and using lower level appointments move the bureaucracy to the policies he prefers and sideline those who don't display the proper level of devotion and fealty.

[RichatUF]

And...when his version of foreign policy produces the usual: US Embassies being bombed; UN missions, with US participation (but with "multilateral" leadership), which collapse in gunfire; and terrorist violence against US government personnel and citizens abroad: He'll use the Bush Administration as his excuse to implement his Orientalist vision to attack the so called "root causes", which will only make the situation worse.

[kim]

Baptism is waterboarding. One isn't called 'reborn' for nothing.
===================================

[PeterUK]

RichatUF,
Read my 6:20 pm. The Consulate in Bombay was considered as a target.Any word on this from "The One"?

[Rick Ballard]

Weird stuff going on in financial reporting. The leaked Treasury plan on cutting mortgage interest was climbing on both Bloomberg and Yahoo and has now disappeared. It's a high impact story. I wonder what happened?

[RichatUF]

PeterUK-

I'm sure Pakistan will be much more important to Obama than India. I'm not surprised that the US Consulate would have been on the target list and that the Indians are looking at the Bali bombings as precedent.

[RichatUF]

Rick-

It read more like a trial balloon to get Team Obama's attention. Anyway, I thought the last home mortgage bill passed in what July 2008 was supposed to have gotten that on track. Oh well. Did notice that ACORN is going to start sueing banks for "reverse-redlining" because of all this, should be fun.

And one curious link I found at the article on the sidebar-Harvard's endowment has fallen by 22% in the last 4 months. It got me thinking about how much money the other left-wing foundations might have lost over the last couple of months. This thing might have a silver-lining after all.

[narciso]

So he's dropping the windfall profits tax, keeping interrogation policies (although one can argue who would be the subject of these,) pretending at least, to delay the
tax increases, now if he only delays on restoring the ban on off shore drilling; whose views does that sound like he's endorsing; voters remorse should set it at some point among the left; just kidding.
Than again, Chuck Hagel, or Tim Roemer, the
evil Mark Levin(listen to them closely)are considered viable characters to head the Company.

In the memory hole division, LarryNeumiller of the AP, has dropped Sarah's 4 trips to GA out of the Chambliss victory. That's why
Lisa Murkowski's sudden challenge to Sarah,
reported of course by the Obamico, and repeated by the Alaskan star crossed Allah, rings particularly ridiculous, but sadly on point. Instead of congratulating her, for being the only other state wide Republican
with any influence, she sees her as a threat. She has earned a national if not international following; for her espousing of values, the Right has often paid lip service to, and for the contempt the left
has saddled upon her, coming through with
dignity and grace. Biden's poor attempt at
an intentional joke, shows how clueless he is. But I repeat myself. He does seem to enbody the essence of that line about the Vice Presidency; one left to sea, neither
was ever heard from again, That's why ultimately, like Joe the Plumber, I though
the VP role would have been too limiting for her

[PaulL]

This thread was a quick read. I don't read Sullivan, nor anyone's take on Sullivan, nor Manicleo.

[Pofarmer]

Did notice that ACORN is going to start sueing banks for "reverse-redlining" because of all this, should be fun.

So first you sue em when they don't lend, and then you sue em when they do???

[PaulL]

Chambliss himself was very grateful to Sarah and gave her the most credit for his victory.

[RichatUF]

Pofarmer-

I was going to drop a link, but I'm coming up empty on my search. I saw it just a day or two ago they were filing an action against Citigroup. We keep looking but I might have to strike that comment.

[RichatUF]

We keep looking but....whoa!!!

I'll keep looking to see if I can find it.

[Rick Ballard]

Rich,

Reuters has it now. I'm not sure that it's a trial balloon. I don't believe it requires additional money or a change in statutory authority. The FMs are now a bit more than GSEs. The next step is to roll out vanilla MBS - straight 80% LTV with 700 FICO backing. Pension funds are now gobbling up 2.7% 10 year Treasuries. There will be a strong market for 4.5% FM bonds - without CDS.

There are already bondholder suits against Citi's attempt to stick A tranche MBS holders with the cost of renegotiating Stinky Stuff. That's the little "catch" keeping Treasury and the Fed from rolling up the ARM and ALT-A carp gumming the works.

If they restrict the 4.5% money to "new" mortgages for a bit it will be a fantastic jump start on sales - at the moment when pent up demand is becoming apparent.

Not a bad move at all. The duds who broke their "bond" by tossing in their keys have been fitted with nice FICO collars which will keep them renting right through this cycle. The only remaining snag is to figure out how to reward the ARM and ALT-A stalwarts who have kept their word.

[Porchlight]

Okay, I was promised Danube of Thought's return on 12/3. I miss him and hope to see him soon!

[Jim Miller]

Jim Rhoads - Thanks for that point about TR, and the link.

Back in 2006, I noted that waterboarding was still practiced when FDR was a student -- and that he heartily approved. I should have realized the practice must have gone on for years.

[Rick Ballard]

"I don't read Sullivan, nor anyone's take on Sullivan, nor Manicleo."

Hear, hear, PaulL. The ravings of a disease addled poltroon concerning the perceived perfidy of a Copperhead propaganda organ truthfully merit no more than that.

[Jim Miller]

Jim Rhoads - Thanks for that point about TR, and the link.

Back in 2006, I noted that waterboarding was still practiced when FDR was a student -- and that he heartily approved. I should have realized the practice must have gone on for years.

[Jane]

Porchlight,

12-4 not 12-3. I just answered an email from him. He didn't say if he would make the date, but he knows we are all thinking about him.

[RichatUF]

Rick-

It is good news if they can get it up and running. On the matter of those stuck in Alt-A and ARM mortgages, BoA and Countrywide came to an agreement with a number of states for modifications. The bit I read says the program is only open to those who are delinquent though. I'm not sure how the banks would modify a mortgage which is upside down by 20% and the mortgagee doesn't have enough capital to refin to a new mortgage even if the mortgage holder was willing to writedown 20% of the original principle. The Hope Now mortgage bill passed a few months ago had a 45k tax write off for mortgage debt forgiveness but if someone is in the straight jacket it seems really bad advice to tell someone to go ahead and don't pay your mortgage for a few months.

[clarice]

Ah, I just wrote him myself, Jane. I miss him terribly.

[Captain Hate]

Captain Hate,
That was a low blow,were you trying to hit Septic's brain?

Sorry PUK, I was out for a while; I didn't try to aim that low!!

[Rick Ballard]

Rich,

It's back to covenants. If a person needs the help then he banks three months payments, picks up the new mortgage and straightens out the delinquency. The covenants are satisfied and he takes a minor rather than a major credit ding. It certainly won't cure all the carpy ARMs and ALT-As but bulk of the really upside down stuff is in CA and FL.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

You're welcome, JM. The post you linked was excellent.

Isn't it amazing how the human condition has become so advanced that practices well-tolerated by kids thought to be pantywaists in the past are too "barbaric" to be tolerated by the rough and tough soldiers today.

[Ann]

CC and Clarice,
I ordered Ada Boni Italalian Regional Cooking today as a Christmas gift for the real cook in the family....il marito. I am trying to figure out the coffee maker you suggested awhile back, Clarice.
It had a 10 cup stainless carafe. ??

Any other great ideas for Christmas presents?

[clarice]

Jim, it'll be even more amazing to see those practices well tolerated again now that The One is in the WH.

[clarice]

It was a technivorm from Boyds coffee. I notice that another version of it is now available from Frontgate catalogue which you can also access online.That cersion is called the Mocca. http://www.frontgate.com/jump.jsp?itemID=18707&itemType=PRODUCT&path=1%2C2%2C130%2C131%2C4359&iProductID=18707>Coffee maker

[Captain Hate]

Jim, it'll be even more amazing to see those practices well tolerated again now that The One is in the WH.

The only question for me is, since Obastard is being worshipped by the MSM in a fashion I haven't seen since JFK (although the fawning over Slick came close), what will what passes for the hard leftoids like The Nation and Mother Jones print? I say that their anti-America attitude will carry the day, even if it calls for them writing something negative about teleprompter Jesus.

[clarice]

Ann, here's the coffee maker from Boyd's.http://www.boydscoffeestore.com/brewing/thermokb741.php

They , however, seem to take 4-6 weeks to get it to you so I'd try frontgate first.

[Frau Jedöns]

I commend the Indians for using truth serum on the surviving killer/thug/terrorist. From the following description of the drug, it doesn't seem different from the effects of many 'recreational' drugs:
("Truth Serum) was widely used by Western intelligence agencies during the Cold War, before it emerged that the drugs used – typically the barbiturate sodium pentothal – may induce hallucinations, delusions and psychotic manifestations."

[Rick Ballard]

"I'm not sure how the banks would modify a mortgage which is upside down by 20% and the mortgagee doesn't have enough capital to refin to a new mortgage even if the mortgage holder was willing to writedown 20% of the original principle."

Rich,

The average ARM LTV at origination was 84.7%. Using the average original value of $216.6K for an original mortgage $183.5K and a 20% haircut results in a reduction in mortgage from $183.5K to a 90/38 mortgage of $155.9K against a gross required income of $41K. The write down for the mortgage holder is $27.5K or 15% of the original mortgage. Repeat 2,886,183 times and the total cost to mortgage holders comes to $79.4 billion.

It's never been the mortgages. It's the CDS.

[Frau Jedöns]

I commend the Indians for using truth serum on the surviving killer/thug/terrorist. From the following description of the drug, it doesn't seem different from the effects of many 'recreational' drugs:
("Truth Serum) was widely used by Western intelligence agencies during the Cold War, before it emerged that the drugs used – typically the barbiturate sodium pentothal – may induce hallucinations, delusions and psychotic manifestations."

[RichatUF]

Captain Hate-

The commie press will be fully on board as the Records Department for Obama's Ministry of Truth. Lots of history needs to be "fixed": progressives have always supported enhanced interrogations of militant criminal suspects. The criminal Bush Administration wouldn't provide the right legal foundation for an interrogation process which would work. The brave and couragous Obama Administration, getting to the "root causes" of "strategic crime", has enacted the proper safeguards and process.

See, its easy, if you try.

[Ann]

Not only tolerated but defended, and it makes me ill.
-----------------------------------------

Thanks Clarice!

You all put me to shame today, i made strombolli. Oh well, the house full of kids love it.

[clarice]

Sounds good to me, Ann.

If you want a decent stocking stuffer..here's an idea:
http://www.fredsmusicandbbq.com/Steve_Raichlen_Cast_Iron_Rectangular_Grill_Press_p/stvsr8034.htm>Grill press

You could use it barbecuing chicken (lots of great recipes for brick chicken where the bird is partially deboned, marinated, then pressed flat to cook. But this is also a cheap panini maker..and better than any but the most expensive electric models.(The less expensive ones cook the front sandwiches well before the rear ones..And I'm sure there are countless other uses for this inexpensive press.

[RichatUF]

It's never been the mortgages. It's the CDS.

Rick-

Let the banks use the TARP money to break the MBSs and CDSs and strech some authority the FDIC, Fed, or Treasury already has to give the banks and insurance companies cover. Not sure how to do that, and I'm sure Schumer and Dodd would find a camera and squwak about how important it is to have lawyers and lawsuits in the process (you know, to help the little guy).

[clarice]

Rich--exactly.

[Elliott]

RichatUF,

Don't forget that, whereas Bush's "jokes" were demeaning, a vehicle to establish his superiority over others and remind them of the inherent imbalance in their power relationship, Obama's humor sets a tone of collegiality and mutual good feeling not only within his cabinet, but among all his fellow citizens as well.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Looks like a great bacon press as well, Clarice.

[nonetoday]

The plan by the Treasury department is nothing but another way for them to steal money from taxpayers and give it to banks although the banks have made BILLIONS from FESS for loans they KNEW would NEVER be paid back.

And they can also keep housing prices artificially inflated so that people who don't own a home can't buy one.

"The plan also could be good news for banks hit hard by the housing slowdown. In addition to having the government play the role of guaranteed buyer, financial institutions could pocket FEES for making loans to buyers able to afford homes at the lower rates. That, in turn, could boost the economy and improve the weak outlook for other consumer loans, such as credit cards, that also are weighing heavily on the banking industry's profitability."

There are THOUSANDS of banks in this country - if the major banks fail comsumer deposits are insured and people can put their money in ANOTHER bank but Paulson and the other immoral people at the Treasury department only care about helping people who belong to their "club."

[Rick Ballard]

Rich,

Kick the tires on the data maps which Gaither thoughtfully made available at the NY Fed site. Considering their sophistication, how long would you think it would take to generate maps showing CRA default levels per Congressional District? A hard couple of hours?

CA, FL, NY, TX, IL and NJ account for 53% of the bad loan count and

[Ann]

Clarice, You are such a joy, who else would know about fredsmusicandbbq.com. I love it and it seems to be the perfect gift to take home to Va not only for grilling but for protecting myself from evil sister in laws. :)

[clarice]

Yes, Jim, it does.
It's available at amazon and if you're a prime member shipping's free.

[Rick Ballard]

CA, FL, NY, TX, IL and NJ account for 53% of the bad loan count and 65% of the dollar volume involved in REO.

Blackmail is a terrible thing except when it's not.

[SunnyDay]

Looks like a great bacon press as well, Clarice.
**********************
Makes a fine grilled cheese sandwich, too. :D

[DrJ]

the banks have made BILLIONS from FESS>

From Fess Parker? Of acting or vintning fame? He is wealthier than I had imagined.

Or do you have someone else in mind?

[clarice]

Ann, print up this lovely recipe and present it with the grill press:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/emeril-lagasse/northern-italian-style-chicken-under-a-brick-recipe/index.html>pollo

In Lvov I survived for two weeks on some local version of this. It was the only edible thing on the menu--I thought it Circassian but cannot find it..It's absolutely delicious in any event.

[RichatUF]

Rick-

Actually, I just had a stray thought. What if the insurance companies that are buying really small thrifts to get access to the TARP money and the Treasury cutting agreements with banks is actually the work around on the CDS problem.

The insurance companies get the TARP money then writedown their CDSs to zero and have the capital infusion to withstand the losses (think of it as the writedowns on "goodwill" that plagued alot of the late-1990's deals that went bust 01-03) and the TARP program allows the banks to do the same with the Fed taking the haircut on their balance sheet. Kills 2 birds with one stone: unwinds the CDS mess to get mortgage lending flowing again and if it is collectively big enough represents a significant drop in M3, reducing inflationary pressures down the road.

YMMV, it is a bit discombobulated...

[clarice]

Ah, the dish I was thinking of was georgian--chicken tabaka. Here's one version of it:

Ingredients
One 1 to 1-1/ 2 - pound squab or Cornish hen
1 garlic clove, peeled and crushed
Salt
Cayenne
2 tablespoons of butter, melted
-
Need cast iron skillet and heavy lid that will press the chicken down. Improvise - use a smaller skillet lid and put a heavy object on top of it to press down.

Directions
Pat the hen dry and place it breast side up on a large cutting board.
With a sharp knife, slice down the middle of the breastbone, to separate the rib cage. Be careful not to cut all the way through the hen - it should remain in one piece.
Turn the hen over and flatten it with a meat pounder.
With a sharp knife make a small slit at the lower edge of each breast half and push the tips of the drumsticks through the slits, one on each side, so that the knobby ends of the drumsticks protrude on the skin side.
Make similar slits on the upper edge of each breast half and push the wing tips through. Each breast half should be covered by drumstick and a wing.
Flatten the hen gently once more with the meat pounder.
Rub the hen with crushed garlic, salt liberally, and dust with cayenne.
Heat a cast-iron skillet large enough to hold the hen. Add butter.
Once it melts put the hen in the pan, turning to coat both sides.
Cook skin side up over medium high heat for 5 minutes, then turn skin side down.
Place a plate or another skillet over the hen and weight it down with a heavy can or bowl filled with water. Cook the hen over medium heat for 20 minutes, until the skin is brown and slightly crusty. Turn, replace the weight, and cook 5-10 minutes more.
Serve with Garlic Sauce or Tkemali (sour plum) Sauce.
In Russian restaurants it was served with Ketchup, which is also pretty good
The platter can be served with rice or green beans or both.

I remember having it with garlic sauce

[Rick Ballard]

Rich,

If Treasury backs FM bonds at 4.5% it will extinguish both the MBS and CDS problem within two years. Prepayment will drop the pools below 10% and "poof" no more MBS - no more CDS exposure either. There's only $11-12 trillion in mortgages out for the whole damn country. "Normal" 100% rollover is actually a little more than two years (counting refi's as well as purchases).

There hasn't been a new MBS marketed since June AFAICT and there may never be another. Not in the 13 tranche waterfall version at any rate.

[Ann]

Ordered, copied recipe, and many thanks Clarice. You are the best!

As for HOPE, it is 12:10, December 4, 2008, so I am starting the:

WELCOME BACK DoT Thread. We missed you!!!

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Rick:

Those MBS's were essentially the same instruments that funded sub-prime auto lending in the early to mid 90's. Instead of mortgages, of course the "security deed" was a UCC installment instrument with the (depreciating) car as security. Only a few of the originating companies made it. One of my clients was not one of them.

Similar instruments also funded the purchase by private entities of county and city real property tax liens on property that was in tax default. The security was the assessed real estate. The purchaser stood in the shoes of the taxing entity, and accrued taxes, interest and default penalties, and had all of the powers of Government in enforcing the liens. Another of my clients did very well purchasing and servicing the liens and selling them off in securitized instruments. That turned out to be a very lucrative business which sustained a very good client for many years.

[narciso]

I used to think the TARP was a last resort, but when you discover that banks used the money in part, to buy other bank stocks; which would inevitably falter, because you didn't fix the underlying problem in the first place; I lost any confidence in that scheme. We have committed in one way or another half our annual GDP to this thing and it's not getting better. Looks like Nancy P. as Todd Schnitt has dubbed her,
doesn't have the votes for another bailout.
Yet another vindication of Sarah's doubts about the whole enterprise, among others
Thank heaven for small favors, but everybody
and their brother is bellying up to the bar, like plump piglets. I frankly don't see how M3 gets any smaller with all this interventions.

In the unnecessarily mean and petty
department, was this leak of Ileana Ros Lehtinen's refusal to accept what she thought was a crank call from Obama; in light of Chretien and Palin's experience, al little caution is in order,no. He's all class all the time isn't he. It's right up there with Ed Rendell's diss of Napolitano, who's policy differences I've stated but really he should crawl under a rock. Where he'd find one big enough is another question. Speaking of crawling out from rocks,Huckabee resurfaced on H&C, I guess a little apologetic of his diss about Sarah not 'being vetted' and 'wearing stiletto heels; having seen her drawing power in Georgia. She easily doubled the turnout calculations from the most recent polls despite what AP and McClatchy want to imply. I've really come to despise him, long before this, when he played the spoiler against first Guiliani and then Romney,if nothing else, he does seem to fit the media's caricature of an evangelical to a tee. If he is what Murdoch thinks a viable right alternative in these times, than Fox is in bigger trouble than I
thought. That ridiculous question about Richardson's beard, at the press conference what was all that about. Oh and since we're commenting on intemperateness, I'd like to apologize for misunderstanding the intent of those two posters of Patterico, who I thought were dissing Sarah's accomplishments
which referred to in my NBER meets the Ministry of Truth post. They were just providing helpful suggestions about her future career options. Ironically, it's been her careful stewardship of the busget that makes it most likely that Alaska in one of the states, not in the bailout queue.
Sadly since she has more responsibilities than a community organizer, including taking
care of her wonderful family, this is probably the last we hear from her, till at least the CPAC convention; which is understanding but dissapointing all the more, as the alternatives have been found
wanting to say the least. I mean who wants to listen to Biden, vainly grasp for meaning, among just a few choice examples

[narciso]

Question; how do you make the posts in TypePad fit, with proper punctuation?

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

N:

Are you cutting and pasting from a WP program or typing directly into the comment box?

[Rick Ballard]

Jim,

The kicker in this deal remains the CDS. If it were a matter of just a haircut on the MBS then the scope and solution would be as simple as what I outlined above - the mortgage holder loses 15% and becomes a little wiser. Some will go broke but most won't. Instead, the 15% loss can trigger the CDS grenade. It irks me more than a little that the Masters of the Universe on Wall Street devised a scheme that turned out to be easy to rig and play back against the schemers.

Wall Street deserves to lose "credit" for a very long time over this one.

[Topsecretk9]

Hey JOMer's...thanks so much for the birthday wishes and happy birthday to that stunning beauty Clarice and Mrs. Run(who I am sure is a stunner herself). Have been busy bee and missing you guys.

[Topsecretk9]

And hey! Knock of that trying to fix NARCISO, will ya? NARC ISO is perfect just the way NARCISO is. It's unique and makes the place special.

(Hint: do what JMH does and take Narc's post into word and play with the carriage returns and paragraphs.)

[Topsecretk9]

off, not of. Heh.

[Ann]

Narciso,

Stop! We love you the way you are...don't change. You inform us more in one day then a number of posts from JOM.

Your steadfast support of Sarah, our fair lady, makes you my favorite everyday. I don't want you to change anymore than I want Sarah to change.

[Ann]

TOPS,

Speaking about one of my favorites! I am ready to go to bed and you appear! Where have you been?

[Elliott]

Tops,

Great to see you! You have been missed. I hope you had a wonderful birthday.

[Topsecretk9]

Hi Anne and Elliot (waving vigorously) -- just busy with work and family and taking a break. Love and miss you all.

[kim]

Smooches, pooch.
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[Topsecretk9]

Kim

Big dog licks all over your face thanks, like a doggy who didn't see his owner for a long time licks, Lot of slubbery licks and love back at you. ::wink::

[kim]

::grin:: Hey, did you see George might be back in a while. Click on Seixon RIP for some good news.
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