Powered by TypePad

« Tuesday O'Blagging | Main | Pardon Scooter? (Round II) »

December 23, 2008

Comments

bunky

Yes, now, yesterday.

Scooter fought in the Iraq War, he was just a different kind of foot soldier and was prosecuted for it.

centralcal

Yes! Pardon Scooter!

hrtshpdbox

Pardon Scooter and appoint a Special Prosecutor for Blago; gather the press, make a 30-second statement announcing both actions, then take no questions.

hrtshpdbox

"then take no questions.

Maybe throw a shoe at David Gregory before leaving the podium.

C.R.

Libby has not requested a pardon, has he?

centralcal

hrtshpdbox: Excellent suggestions, all!

Jane

Maybe throw a shoe at David Gregory before leaving the podium.

Change I can believe in!

narciso

Yes Scooter was done in by a duplicitous now deceased journalist ,and many of his
associates, that we didn't recognize their
full capacity for skullfuggery, yes it is
as bad as is it sounds (Gregory, Mitchell,
et al) I leave out Judy Miller out of this, because she suffered the full consequence of Fitz's displaced wrath, and her journalism still stands up. He was also betrayed by Armitage, and the fact that the latter wasn't prosecuted, for the same offense, indicates the falsity of the charge. The INR memo by the now forgotten detailee, indicated the concerns that other agencies had about her conduct, the whole purpose behind the briefings. So yes pardon
him, Mr. President, because they went after him, to damage your policies and let them stew for a while.

Worldwidemarketsharesinvetmentgrade'restructured'(like the oil)

Russert didn't go along with the plan. He went overseas, flew home, fell over and died.

Maybe HE was poisoned on the plane.................


Plame's wrath was 'Vanity Fair.' Count them.

Captain Hate

Maybe throw a shoe at David Gregory before leaving the podium

Don't fire until you can see the grey of his hair.

boris

the notion that this was a staged leak to punish Wilson was simply a convenient partisan fiction

IMO that is an inconsistent position. If Libby retained the Wilson wife detail from the first moment he and VP were breifed and Libby wrote it down, then all subsequent actions can only be attributed to staging the leak.

If the wife detail was so irrelevant to their activities that Libby did forget it, then his version of events is at least as credible as the conflicting and implausible versions told by the gaggle of journalists EXCEPT their CYA versions were profesionally crafted by multi million dollar story tellers.

The middle of the road positions are just too flimsy to stake a person's reputation and career on.

kim

Well, what lie did he tell?
================

narciso

I know you're trying to bait people into a long controversial thread, this close to Christmas, So here's my two bits, The whole Plame case prosecution wasn't 'a tragedy it was a crime', perpetrated in part by the likes of Armitage, abetted by journalists, and tolerated by Fitzgerald. After seeing the mess that the Clinton inquiry did in part to the ant-jihadist effort, to have continued to pursue this, long after the white rabbit had fade, was clearly irresponsible. Similar things can be said
of the Conrad Black witchhunt.

boris

The sequence of event as I recall them were ...

  • Joe Wilson tells the press that Bush/Cheney exaggerated the Iraq uranium connection.

  • Cheney/Libby discuss Joe Wilson and learn his wife works at CIA.

  • They release portions of the NIE to the press to affirm their position

  • The press accusses the admin of cherry picking because THEY SENT JOE AND INGORED HIS FINDINGS !!!

  • At that point the detail that it was his wife who arranged the operation becomes VERY IMPORTANT.

From that point on Nobody can believe that Cheney/Libby didn't latch on to the wife factiod from the very first instance and hindsight blindness sets in.

clarice

Exactly. What lie? That Russert told him on July 11..something Russert admitted to before the NBC lawyers and Eckenrode persuaded him to deny.

clarice

****Russert admitted was possible before the NBC lawyers and Eckenrode persuaded him to deny***********

clarice

And ,TM, remember the standard of proof that is required: Knowing of all the evasive and conflicting testimony by the reporters, could you honestly say that you thought Libby lied beyond a shadow of a doubt?
I think at best, you've laid out a fifty-fifty case which doesn't meet that test.

Jane

OT:

John O'Sullivan writes an op-ed saying pretty much what he said on the cruise - That Sarah Palin is closer to Maggie Thatcher than she is given credit.

LUN

kim

Right, c. So what lie does Tom believe he told? The White House, the Gang that Couldn't Shoot Joe Wilson Straight, were the last to figure out what was happening in the Plame case. Cheney, when Libby told him that he'd first heard of Plame from him, looked up at Libby and said "From me?"
==============================

kim

Libby and Cheney both forgot that first mention, in June. Libby figured it out from notes(?), and told Cheney, who was surprised; they'd both forgotten it. That's how unimportant Val, and derivatively, Joe Wilson were at the outset. Remember, Armitage claimed that Joe was spreading his wife's name around because he was angry at being called 'low level'.

I wonder if Novak will give up who met him on the street.
=============================

Sue

Pardon Scooter! I want to see the left's head explode one more time.

narciso

This leaves out the INR memo, written by the staffer, who didn't care how Valerie
was dragooning the direction of the inquiry, sending Joe to the Oaugo Oaugo to chat with minions on the junta. There was no need for the Comey caravan, or the Fitz
flimflam; that's the point.

clarice

Speaking of flim flam, the Washington Times has more including this:

"

According to the complaint, another FBI agent had improper relationships with witnesses, including star witness Bill Allen, a wealthy oil magnate who paid for the renovations to Stevens' home. The agent shared meals and confidential law enforcement information with Mr. Allen and others, according to the complaint.

The agent also accepted help finding a house to buy, artwork and employment for a relative from at least one person cooperating with the investigation.

U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan noted the irony of that accusation, pointing out in his ruling "that the defendant in this case was convicted for failing to disclose that he had accepted multiple things of value and, in fact, the trial included testimony about his receipt of artwork and employment for a relative."

Defense attorney Robert M. Cary wrote "the parallel is stunning."

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/23/tables-turn-on-fbi-agent-in-stevens-case/>What the heck

kim

narciso, it was all an object lesson. God doesn't want people of Russert's calibre to lie without clear cut lessons being taught.
==================================

kim

The FBI one morning,
Lost its notes suborning.
Eckenrode,
Where is that toad?
He's wanted at a harrowing.
===================

clarice

Wonder how much screaming there'd be if Bush did pardon Libby, now that even some on the left are growing critical of Fitz?

kim

Here's the Push Me Pull You; any justification for pardon for Libby on the facts of the case co-incidentally, and powerfully, speaks to the legitimacy of Fitzgerald. Interesting times, yeah.
===================================

kim

We are clearly flowing in the gutters of the same crooked alleyway, clarice.
=========================

Cecil Turner

Concur that the middle of the road theory just doesn't work. If Plame's covert identity was the subject of a retributive leakfest, then Scooter's memory lapses aren't plausible. If her job at CIA was just a semi-interesting factoid (as partial explanation to the who-cares mystery of why the CIA chose Wilson for the non-investigation of the not-"16-words"), then his faulty memory of the events is unremarkable. In fact, his nonsensical story bears a lot of the hallmarks of someone who is mixing his talking points of two tangentially related issues, right down to vehement belief in an obviously impossible sequence of events (and contra many arguments, that actually makes his story more plausible, not less). I don't know for sure whether he was playing CYA or not, but "beyond a reasonable doubt"? No way.

However, this doesn't address the real issue: abuse of process by Fitzgerald. He knew early on that his "OVP leaked for revenge" theory was unsupportable, and should've known that the "actual leaker" . . . Armitage . . . had leaked long before Scooter ever even thought about it. His fairy tale at the indictment presser (i.e., "He was at the beginning of the chain of phone calls, the first official to disclose this information outside the government to a reporter.") is at least as obstructive as anything Scooter said. Moreover, reading through the rambling grand jury testimony (focusing first on the NIE declassification and eventually trying to fish out a plausible motive for not obstructing the non-crime), it's clear the only thing he was investigating at that point was whether he could charge Scooter with perjury. The "lost" FBI notes and DC jury pool are icing on the cake.

The obvious outcome is that future staffers will be coached on their interviews (a la Bull Durham): "I don't remember"; "sorry, I can't recall"; "It's all a bit hazy." ["'Course it's boring, that's the point. Write it down."] And that doesn't help anyone. As to the pardon, I don't know. At this point it's hard to see how much it'd help Scooter. And giving the Democrats another event they can spin into a claim of corruption just helps distract from actual malfeasance.

Sue

I suspect Bush has already done for Scooter all he intends to do. The pardon I really want to see from Bush is the two border guards that are languishing in prison.

kim

Well, Sue, and Cecil, I'll be quite plain. I have enough faith in Bush that I believe he'll pardon all three. We are gonna miss him when he is gone.
=====================

clarice

Cecil, He could practice law again; get his honor back and a wrong would be redressed.

Sue

Kim,

I love him, but I don't think he will pardon any of the three. He has a code that garnered him abuse for allowing all executions to occur in Texas. If a jury found them guilty, they are guilty. I'm not sure he will back down from that for Scooter or the 2 border guards.

kim

And again, with adversity for Fitz, it could lead to correction of the record, and we all earnestly desire that.
========================

kim

Well, Sue, you Texans know him better than I do. He does have a code, which is sadly lacking in Ourobama.
================================

Jane

I love him, but I don't think he will pardon any of the three.

That would be my guess too.

kim

Besides, that jury nullified itself, via T-Shirt. They threw the dissenting voice off the jury, probably because she was reading a blog. This was hardly Twelve Angry Men. It was one angry woman and eleven dwarves.
===========================

narciso

I'm not willing to go there Kim, as to the the Stevens trial revelations, I'm
gasterflabbed again, I shouldn't be but I guess I am. Shouldn't there be not only a vacating of the verdict, but sanctions against the prosecution for that type of misconduct. It occurred in DC, of course, with the 'runaway jury' who stalled the deliberations as close to the election as possible. Which begs a question, why if all the principles and all the witnesses were from Alaska, and the alleged crime was committed there, why wasn't it prosecuted
there. It does seem that all the big ethical brouhahas of the last years have been a scam; from Plame to Ronnie Earle's roundup rodeo of indictments against Delay,
to even the pileup with Jack Abramoff, suggesting he would conspire to murder or at least cover up a business rival (Law & Order took that extra step) To the Foley Fiasco, with intelligence company investor
and serial adulterer Tim Mahoney waiting in the wings. To the Stevens setup in part over his great outrage over the Bridge to Nowhere, which Obama and Biden voted for it; whereas as Sarah finally slew it. You could add the pileup against Trent Lott, as
the forerunner for all of this. To the whole Wooten/Monegan fooferall, that was debunked coveniently on election eve. Even the latest dustup with the Wasilla bust, where the DA hadn't filed papers.

Meanwhile Chris Dodd, a named Friend on Mozillo, is the wolf at the Banking committee watching over other wolves. Barney Frank, another jeremiad spinner, had ahem a conflict on interest, with regards to the major players in the scandal. Jefferdon served as a bagman toward Nigerian officials, yet his trial date hasn't appreciably advanced.

Cecil Turner

A pardon cannot restore honor. (Which Scooter never lost, AFAICT.) Wilson, Plame, Armitage . . . . and Fitzgerald . . . might want to check how much of theirs went missing in this mess.

arketsuredheil

Plame was leaked a long time ago. Fitz was supposed to arrest her and wouldn't. Dems all over.

clarice

Interesting links, narciso. Pull away from the accused to keep your republican white togas spotless and the wolves will keep choomping away at all of them, won't they?

kim

Is Jon Jonsen joomping all over Wisconsin?
===========================

Rick Ballard

Narciso,

Turn it over. Madoff has stolen more than was stolen in all the bank robberies in US history put together and is still ensconced in his $10 million abode. If he had denied it, then not parking him in the slammer might make some sense (like letting Blago roam the gutters of Chicago) but he has fully fessed up.

Could Madoff know the location of a few too many Dem bodies for the comfort of the scum who he has so generously supported?

The President should order Fitz shot then pardon Libby. Fitz is more of a threat and menace to society than anyone but Dem legislators.

TCOisbanned?

Libby was a low grad liar. So was Rove. If we beleive in principle, we need to appy it to our own side. Need to be able to shoot your own dog.

PeterUK

The best way for Mr Libby to restore his honour, would be to decline any pardon and declare he will be "Judged at the bar of history as an innocent man".

This would also had the advantaged of pointing the finger of doubt at the other protagonists ,enrage and disappoint the left.It would tell Fitzgerald that his worst was as of nothing.

PeterUK

"Need to be able to shoot your own dog."

Where do you want it,medulla oblongata?

BobS

It's tortured to even say Libby "may" have lied. Only a Dem jury from DC who really hated Cheney could have handed down such a verdict. Nevermind the morale equivelance angle that goes with any of Clinton's pardons. Look how many Dems had to lie to get Cheney convicted (and, yes, that includes all those NBC reporters - Dem hacks all) Rarely have we seen reason for a full pardon - and I'm betting he does.

Can you imagine what Fitz can do in Chicago if he's as ruthless as he was in the Libby investigation? Its probably why so many are shaking and singing and spinning.

clarice

And it would keep him from earning a living at his chosen profession--when he has two kids soon to enter college; over a million dollars in lawyers fees (much still unpaid) and a $250k fine already paid.

clarice

PUK, I must say you've a great flair for the dramatic..

kim

So, TCO, what lie did Libby tell?
====================

Barney Frank

However, I do think Libby lied to the investigators of this non-crime, thereby committing a crime.

Agreed, although hardly to the extent required in a criminal conviction.

..could you honestly say that you thought Libby lied beyond a shadow of a doubt?
I think at best, you've laid out a fifty-fifty case which doesn't meet that test.

Also agreed. Libby should not have been prosecuted on such a minor footnote to a non-crime.

However, this doesn't address the real issue: abuse of process by Fitzgerald.

Not sure I agree. Poor prosecutorial discretion is one thing; abuse of process another.
Generally it's pretty hard to argue abuse of process when the defendant is convicted and doesn't appeal.

kim

I don't understand the failure to appeal. He had so many routes to success. Then again, he had to walk those routes in his shoes, not mine.
================

PeterUK

Clarice,
A grateful country could sort out Mr Libby's financial.He should be given a medal and a pension,is he not also a casualty of war?Far more so that Plame.

BTW,A High Court judge would have declared a mistrial for all Fitz's MSM capers.I all event Fitz would have at least coped a contempt of court,if not got disbarred.

kim

And I'm sorry, Patrick Fitzgerald, Abuse of Process, be thy name.
========================================

BobS

Clarice: This is in your area.......is Schumer friendly with Madoff? I think I read somewhere there's some sort of connection between Madoff and Schumer's efforts to raise funds for the Dem Senatorial Election Committee.

MarkO

You are still being out-lawyered.

clarice

Let me guess: He was out of money, and an appeal would have added to his staggering defense costs. Had he appealed, the matter would have been pending when Bush left office,making a pardon more problematic.The Court may not have regarded the matter as terribly serious after the commutation of the sentence.

PeterUK

Kim,
"I don't understand the failure to appeal".

You have to understand how depraved and out of control the American prosecutorial system is,it has become Jarndice v Jarndice.The accused can be emnbroiled for years,bankrupted and ruined. That is why there is so much plea bargaining.

clarice

I have no idea,BobS--But this site says Schumer received money from Madoff for himself and the Dem Senate Committee and another site indicates Schumer got $6k from Madoff which he's returning.

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:bJVFgsqR9jMJ:paxalles.blogs.com/paxalles/2008/12/disgraced-democrat-madoff-donated-big-to-schumer-lautenberg.html+schumer+madoff&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us>Madoff $$ for Dems

BobS

thanks

peter

over a million dollars in lawyers fees

Clarice,
Scooter got the worst advice from his attorneys possible; he should sue them for malpractice. Had his original attorney told him to keep his mouth shut, he would never have even gone to trial.

cathyf

Any sentient being with the most cursory knowledge* of what happened at the Feb 19, 2002, meeting knows, with absolute certainty, that Plame was a non-covert publicly-acknowledged CIA employee. Anyone with such knowledge who asserts that there is any possibility of Plame being covert is lying. Anyone who told that lie in any court filing or legal proceeding is a perjurer.

In a Grisholm novel, Bush would fire Fitzgerald and pardon him.

------
*Cursory knowledge: 1) Valerie Plame was at the meeting; 2) Plame told the attendees that she worked for the CIA; 3) Joe Wilson was at the meeting; 4) Plame told the attendees that she and the guy that the CIA was going to send to Niger were husband and wife.

clarice

peter, he knew he'd not been Novak's source, the president directed everyone to cooperate, therefore, he didn't even bother to engage a criminal lawyer but used a civil lawyer he was friendly with. It was a mistake. So was Bush' order to cooperate. Given the Comey-Fitz set up everyone should have pled the fifth and told the SP to stuff it.

clarice

Actually, CIA people say she was listed on their rolls even then as "covert" but her conduct at that meeting and everything else we know about her career and what Ishmael Jones has reported indicate her "covert" status was covert only in archaic terms the CIA still uses, not within any statutory definition.

narciso

If we had a grateful country, there'd be no need to discuss this at all. Oliver North, was hounded by essentially doing what the President told him to do, and was rewarded with this crazy Christic pre-truther CIA crap which made it into all the films and much of the movies of the period (from Lethal Weapon to Miami Vice) Then he was forced to do 'community service'. Now some may quibble with what he was doing, Bob Baer for one, but he's gone out there into the crazy neocons are the enemy, Iran is our friend. In other words, he's become the George Clooney caricature of him.

They pulled the same garbage when he ran for Senate and another one of the famed moderates, the erstwhile John Warner. Then stabbed him in the back. He set up the Freedom Alliance, the armor company, still rallies the troops, but you can't help think he still feels anger at this. Then they resurrected the story again, two years later thanks to serial fabulist Gary Webb, and the Maxine Waters mau-mauing of John Deutsch. It served he function of discrediting Jack Kemp,and as a kudgel against William Weld; the latter still didn't learn anything from the experience, as the Helms and much later Sarah rebukes show.

Libby didn't come from money, the disbar ment most assuredly impacted his finances; and let's face it do you really want to take a chance with one of these appeals courts or even the Supremes nowadays. Ao he certainly deserves a pardon, as does Ramos & Campean, and throw in Conrad Black. Will they get it, who knows.

I haven't quite plumbed the levels of rage at the Bernard Madoff scandal, he looted at the Global Crossing World Com levels, yet he still gets house arrest!. His connections
through the Stock Exchange which apparently him in contact with Paulson,(seriously what does it take to get this guy dismissed; it's like Conquistador Coffee)his voluminous
campaign contributions which were not for show; I'm willing to bet they were covering for him 24/7. I'm sure they'll put someone solid, like Comey the Stewart slayer on the case, you know if he's not busy serving as
special prosecutor in the TSP matter.

MayBee

One thing Libby absolutely should have done is tell Bush that he did indeed have conversations about Wilson's wife with reporters.

I think he didn't have any huge plan about outing her, didn't know she was supposedly covert, and didn't pay much attention to what he said about her. When the storm blew over, he acted like Rahm is acting now. (A little internal investigation will exonerate me.)

But he could have spared the administration and himself some heartache and embarrassment if he had told Bush he was vulnerable. Because he didn't, I don't think he'll get a full pardon.

Cecil Turner

Generally it's pretty hard to argue abuse of process when the defendant is convicted and doesn't appeal.

Sounds like an "ends justifies the means" argument. If an innocent man was in fact convicted and now despairs of redress through the justice system, that is the worst possible abuse. Are you sure that didn't happen in this case? I'm not. And like many here, I read Scooter's reluctance to throw good money after bad as sound judgment, not an admission of guilt.

Appalled

I don't see a pardon in the offing for Libby. Bush does not much use the pardon power, and I think, with the commutation, he figures he has done enough.

clarice

But there is no record evidence at all that Libby told any reporter about Valerie Plame. We have only Miller's bafflegab about her Flame, etc notes and a clear indication she got that from someone else--at maximum Libby told her about Wilson's wife, as he didn't recall her name then.

There was nothing to tell the WH--because he never disclosed her work id to anyone at all on this record.
The question was who told HIM what and when.

MayBee

But he discussed her, even if it was Russert telling him about her.
He should have told the WH that he was part of discussions about Plame, at whatever level.

cathyf
Actually, CIA people say she was listed on their rolls even then as "covert" but her conduct at that meeting and everything else we know about her career and what Ishmael Jones has reported indicate her "covert" status was covert only in archaic terms the CIA still uses, not within any statutory definition.
That's a different issue -- the CIA was committing administrative misconduct at least, and perhaps fraud, by paying her from the covert budget while assigning her duties which abrogated any covert status that she might have had.

This is the government, not a private company. At a private firm the owners can pay people as they like, and/or engage in phony or inflated job titles. But companies have the discipline of markets -- if they get outrageous to the point that it interferes with doing business, then they will get punished by losing business. In government they only have byzantine rules designed to ensure that government employees really do the jobs that they are being paid for. The rules are broadly flouted, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Joan of Argghh!

Madoff and so many others have mishandled public trust and devoured widows' savings. And Martha Stewart actually went to prison for what, again? Political expediency and supposedly lying about a non-lie. Or something.

Good lordy-morty, if I had the Feds breathing down my neck for something I was absolutely sure was a mix-up or a witch-hunt, I'd be throwing out whatever explanation they wanted to hear. After seeing the manipulation of so-called justice that has permeated DC, I'd be afraid for my life, even and especially if I were innocent. DC can't stand innocence. They're all so uniformly in the tank that if someone isn't, they simply must crucify them.

On that thought, Merry Christmas!

ark

'walk those routes in his shoes'? Plame might be doing that. '...redress through the justice system.'

The crimes she accused everyone of were her, which Fitz chose not to prosecute. The FBI recused. The AG wouldn't because he won't prosecute. Bush ordered cooperation because he assumed Fitz would do his job.

Ames was arrested on the date of the meeting, something Plame should have understood. The date is important because CIA was being nice to her,she was warned and knew the date. She investigated the Ames arrest. She was not allowed to do that.

Sue

But companies have the discipline of markets -- if they get outrageous to the point that it interferes with doing business, then they will get punished by losing business.

Really? They could just stick their hands out and continue the outrageousness. ::sigh::

Sue

I am laughing at Obama's pictures and the play on words being used. Pec-tac-u-lar. LOL. Do you reckon Arnold's words are ringing in his ears while he pumps iron for 2 hours each day? ::grin::

cathyf
After seeing the manipulation of so-called justice that has permeated DC, I'd be afraid for my life, even and especially if I were innocent.
I've said this before, but I think that the ultimate upshot is that no matter what, it's a crime: if you lie, it's perjury; tell the truth, it's obstruction of justice; refuse to answer, it's contempt of court.

And forget the "I don't know" "I don't recall" responses -- that's all three. I think that the only safe response is: "I don't know what you want me to answer." Repeated over and over, as the response to every question. It turns every contact into an on-the-record attempt by investigators & prosecutors to suborn perjury...

boris

Aside from the absurd notion that Val could be openly CIA but no Republican can mention her because she is classified as classified as covert but that itself is secret so nobdy can tell the Republicans not to talk about her because that would be revealing classified information about an openly operating operative classified as covert ...

Aside from that ... there is the absurd notion that revealing a portion of the Iraq uranium NIE was abuse of power to discredit a noble whistleblower. That one, promoted widely on left blogs, and here by Jeff, and fellow travelers, and most importantly by Fitz at a press conference. put the entire travesty beyond bizzaro world.

After that point the reality of the situation was legalistic combat having everything to do with war and nothing to do with justice.

Rick Ballard

MayBee,

Consider that Libby's basic "crime" was in not recognizing the low quality of the amoral trash who made and make up the SDNY "team". At some point, alerting the WH that it had made a serious blunder in its appointments at DoJ would serve absolutely no purpose. A retrospective of the Bush administration which focused on unforced errors would give a fairly high place to the appointment of amoral sludge to numerous DoJ slots.

I wouldn't place a bet on the President granting a pardon but I would lean toward a guess in the affirmative. Libby has a demonstrated skill with a pen and a memoir with the proper slant would find a ready market.

Barney Frank

Cecil,

If an innocent man was in fact convicted and now despairs of redress through the justice system, that is the worst possible abuse. Are you sure that didn't happen in this case?

No I'm not, but I was making a legal argument not a moral one.
Generally you have to show you were unjustly prosecuted or arrested for a purpose other than the proper legal one and that the legal processes themselves were improperly used to accomplish it. Once you're convicted and you don't even appeal, abuse of process and malicious prosecution are pretty much off the table without some post trial exculpatory revelation.
If you were using abuse of process generically to mean a miscarriage of justice and less than honorable prosecutorial tactics then I'm not sure we're in disagreement.

centralcal

Have you guys seen this . . .

FBI Agent Accuses Colleagues of Misconduct in Stevens Case

Wonder if Fitz has any whistleblowers in his group?

boris

less than honorable prosecutorial tactics

Using the legal system to wage war on the administration, during a shooting war with terrorism as narciso points out, when the actual leaker is known and protected, and one of the "crimes" to be punished was "abuse of power" for setting the record straight by releasing a portion of the pre-invasion NIE ...

IMO that might call for somewhat stronger language than yours.

MayBee

Consider that Libby's basic "crime" was in not recognizing the low quality of the amoral trash who made and make up the SDNY "team".

I agree.
However, if Libby had told the WH that he had discussed Plame with some reporters, the WH might not have involved the DoJ and the SDNY in the same manner.
As it was, Bush had no idea who did the talking. Did anybody tell him they had talked about Plame? Or was he left completely in the dark? I'm guessing he thought only the "real" leakers (Armitage) would get caught up in the dragnet.
Imagine his surprise when Rove, Libby, and Fleischer had played some (small) part.

boris

if Libby had told the WH that he had discussed Plame with some reporters

If only Libby had consulted with a good fortune teller all this could have been avoided.

I don't know what communication Libby may have had with Bush on the issue, there may even have been deliberate restrictions to avoid the appearance of conspiracy so I'm waiting for Rove's book on the subject before passing judgement on what might have been.

RichatUF

...the "crimes" to be punished was "abuse of power" for setting the record straight by releasing a portion of the pre-invasion NIE...

It always bothered me that the DoE email exclaiming "the administration will ultimately look foolish-ie: the tubes and Niger", the two issues that Plame was directly involved in, was left largely unexplored.

Soje

Stevens was informants? Icebreakers and oil. It might have been a foreign op.

Barney Frank

IMO that might call for somewhat stronger language than yours.

I was making the distinction between what I consider unfair prosecutorial tactics toward Libby himself, such as Fitz's press conference, and blatantly illegal ones.

Cecil Turner

If you were using abuse of process generically to mean a miscarriage of justice and less than honorable prosecutorial tactics . . .

Yes, I was making a moral claim, not a legal one. But it's also obvious there are some problems with the system in such cases (especially the jury-shopping in DC), and that the judges and prosecutors are aware of it and capitalize on it (e.g., the Stevens case). The suggestion that a prosecutor can get away with it without effective appeal suggests a desperate need for reform, not that it's okay.

Barney Frank

The suggestion that a prosecutor can get away with it without effective appeal suggests a desperate need for reform, not that it's okay.

Cecil,

I've wasted north of $100,000 and thousands of hours over the last six years on frivolous and pointless civil lawsuits brought by a loony tune relative, so you're preaching to the choir on legal reforms.

narciso

Yes, the language that comes to mind, isn't appropriate to this holiday season.
Everything is a lie, including 'and and the'
Mary McCarthy who said this of Lillian Helman, also pointed out the 'if they had only listened to me' plaintive wail in the "Best in the Brightest" setting the stage for similar tomes on Iraq, a generation later.

To say that Libby was ill served by his counsel is like saying Custer was a little weak at reconning the nearby territories. The reverse is rarely true. Vince Fuller
and Greg Craig got a presidential assasin
off, gave a Haitian oligarch special
privileges, and we'll leave out the rendition effort vis a vis Elian. And this is what he did in private practice, as the President's counsel, consider that an eight
year learning curve for either Palin or Jindal maybe too steep.

Was the penalty for Libby, in part because he was too good an attorney,considering his role in the Rich negotiations and even his pro bono work for Armitage. I've referenced
the old Moldea/Starr payback for services rendered.

boris

you're preaching to the choir on legal reforms

There is no such thing as a perfect system. Still, if Rudy takes advantage of imperfections to take down criminals some might quibble over means and ends. When Fitz uses imperfections to destroy a scapegoat for presumed administration crimes of lying about Iraq, discrediting a noble whistleblower, and outing a covert spy, that is abusive ends regardless of means.

RichatUF

Maybee-

Did anybody tell him they had talked about Plame? Or was he left completely in the dark?

No, the snakes in the State Department huddled together, after the second Novak article, to hatch a scheme to stay out of trouble and keep their togas clean. When State's general counsel called then WH lawyer Gonzales, Gonzales didn't ask for the name.

"There are five dangerous faults which may affect a general...a delicacy of honor which is sensitive to shame..." Sun-Tzu

RichatUF

There's nothing to see here folks, move along, move along.

MayBee

No, the snakes in the State Department huddled together, after the second Novak article, to hatch a scheme to stay out of trouble and keep their togas clean.

Right, but I don't know if Ari or Karl or Scooter told him anything, either.
Ari supposedly initiated a conversation about Plame with Gregory and Dickerson.
Karl and Scooter supposedly were on the receiving end.
If Bush didn't know any of that, he may well have thought he was setting the DoJ off to find a snake elsewhere (such as at State or the CIA). I wouldn't blame him for being peeved at the trouble that was created in part because people didn't let him know they might have spoken to a reporter about the devious Plame.

Danube of Thought

My guess is Bush won't pardon Libby. My hope is that Richard Armitage never works another day in Washington.

Conspiracy Nut

This was a ploy by Bush, Chaney, Fitz, Scooter, etc. to stop leaks in general and from the WH in particular. The Judge wasn't in on it so Bush had to step in and keep it from going too far.
Worked beautifully.

matt

my theory was that Powell was asked to step down because of the Libby case, which is one reason he's bitter. If true, there is a small measure of justice in the world.

JM Hanes

""He was at the beginning of the chain of phone calls....."

I'd like to see the Prez pardon Libby -- and then announce that he will pardon Fitzgerald for lying so that he can continue his Blago investigation without fear of being disbarred for prosecutorial abuse.

clarice

cathyf, you may be right about the pay differential. I don't know if there is one, but look at it this way--the agency has spent lots of money and the agent has spent lots of time becoming proficient and her career is destroyed by the Ames' leak. It happens a lot says Ishmael.

The agent is now young and virtually unemployable elsewhere and this is what they do--Now, I suppose what they ought to do is establish a new policy of a payout of some substance, but then, of course, they'll be outing eachother like crazy ..

MayBee

Now, I suppose what they ought to do is establish a new policy of a payout of some substance, but then, of course, they'll be outing eachother like crazy ..

heh!

ben

"If we beleive in principle, we need to appy it to our own side. Need to be able to shoot your own dog."

Ok, we need a firing squad for TCO's execution.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Wilson/Plame