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December 04, 2008

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Thomas Collins

There are plenty of ninny nannies out there who want to, as part of their "Europeanize the US" project, take away guns from Americans. Unfortunately, Plaxico has provided grist for their mill.

I do wish MSM would pay more attention to situations in which folks have used guns to fend off a robbery and save their lives or the lives of others.

If there were any justice in the world, Plaxico would go free but be required to take an intense training course in proper gun use and storage. He could use some of the bonus money he received from the NY Giants for signing his new contract with them (hopefully for Plaxico his bonus is not forfeitable due to this incident).

Unable to resist the temptation to go off topic, I will predict that the NY Giants will successfully defend their Super Bowl title without Plaxico (they've done fine when he hasn't played in the past).

Jack is Back!

Why do we need Burgess to finance and challenge this stupid infringement on basic American rights? I would be willing if some right-thinking 2nd Amendment warrior would take this on to provide my financial assistance. This isn't about that idiot but about all of our individual and collective right to own and pack heat. Plus, does anyone think he is the only Giant in New York having a party or eating at Smith and Wollensky who isn't packing?

matt

dumbass carrying a gun in a nightclub? Come on! There is no justification except the threat from other gang bangers, various rap stars and the poverbial hangers on.

Yes, the NYC ban is unconstitutional, but I would think the WSJ has better things to do than defend a complete lunkhead.

Danube of Thought

I'd love to see the New York law struck down for a variety of reasons. But although I am a life member of the NRA, I have no problem at all with laws requiring permits to carry concealed weapons outside the home, so long as the permits are reasonably available to law-abiding citizens who provide proof of proper training. And I would support a law imposing strict criminal liability on any moron who carried in his pocket a weapon with a round in the chamber and then discharged that weapon in a public place. New York's problem is that it doesn't seem to have any of the latter kinds of laws, and relies solely on its draconian permitting process. A pox on both parties.

And I, too, predict the Giants will repeat in the Super Bowl. Best team I've seen in several years.

P.S.--I'm feeling great, and really happy to be back. Tanned, rested and ready.

centralcal

DOT: You have no idea how much you were missed (especially those last few weeks of the campaign from hell).

WELCOME BACK!

kim

How about a 21 gun salute for the above celebrity?
================================

PDinDetroit

DoT - Welcome back, you have been missed.

This is not the case that I would pick to fight this NY Law. Too much distraction from the real issue at hand.

I predict that the Detroit Lions will go 0-16 this year, which I believe is a first for any NFL Team. Many of us in the Detroit Area, who do not go to the games, will be on-hand to watch the folly live.

After that, we will do what we always do: Watch the Red Wings instead.

PDinDetroit

Meaning the last game of the season, to clinch the 0-16 season...

Mr. Ed

Besides the 2nd Amendment, these laws also seem to violate Article IV, the "full faith and credit" clause.

Thomas Collins

It's great that your back, Danube of Thought.

And on the promised return date!

centralcal

I don't know which thread to post this on, but I think it is kinda neat.

A Healthy Democracy - By the Numbers

(h/t the corner)

bgates

There is no justification except the threat
True for most things involving guns.

Two NFL players have been murdered over the past two years, and there are only 1696 guys on the roster. Looks like plenty of threat to me.

Jane

YaY DOT! Punctual as ever!

clarice

My boyfriend's back and you're gonna be in trouble....*dancing and singing to see DoT back****

matt

glad to have you back, DOT

Danube of Thought

Thanks to all...

A couple of further thoughts:

I don't like the standing argument very much, just on the basis of the maxim that the law does not require one to do a useless act. He's prevented from getting a permit because he's a non-resident, and I would guess that that gives him standing in and of itself.

I also don't think the full faith and credit law requires one state to recognize a carry permit from another state. I'm pretty sure that the courts will allow each state to set its own standards.

One of the two NFL murder victims was killed in his home, and might very well have saved himself if he'd had a weapon--and very few people in this country oppose the right to keep a weapon for home defense. The other guy, as I recall, was shot outside a club, and a weapon wouldn't have helped him at all.

The Lions will be the first to go 0-16, should they make it. The 1976 Bucs were winless, but in a 14-game season.

Jane

Clarice,

Lest you forgot.....the LUN should focus the mind.


Laura

Okay Jane You win! We give up, life is over as we knew it. But it's alright because we know you are on our side.

Depressed Atlas

DoT, you don't know me since I'm a silent lurker...but I know you from your wonderful, thoughtful posts, which I have missed very much these last terrible months. Welcome back!

bgates

very few people in this country oppose the right to keep a weapon for home defense
Maybe so, but most of those that do are in government; I recall something about a "draconian permitting process" somewhere.

The other guy was killed in his car after leaving a club, by a thug who had had words with him at a nightclub earlier. In the wake of that incident, I doubt many of the players decided to stop going to the clubs, but I doubt any decided, "may as well leave my gun at home, it won't do me any good, provided the thug waits until I'm in my car to shoot me."

clarice

Jane. I really hope as we head into the New year this cheerleader type jejeune nonsense will end.*Stamping feet and pouting*

Jane

Okay Jane You win! We give up, life is over as we knew it.

Hehehehehheheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Thomas Collins

OK, Jane, you got Steyn to hold up a sign announcing you won. Can you get him to pose for a photograph decked out in a CENTRAL MASS ROCKS T-shirt??? :-))

Danube of Thought

Those few who oppose possession for home defense do, indeed, exist in the government of the District of Columia--whose law has just been overturned--and in the State of New York, which unquestionably has had uniquely draconian ideas about gun possession for nearly a hundred years (see, e.g the Sullivan Act).

In any event, the NFL guy who was shot dead in his home by burglars who thought he was out of town (Sean Taylor) was not prohibited by any law from having a weapon in his home. Indeed, in all probabilitly he did have one, since he had been arrested in Florida two years earlier for pointing one at a man in a threatening manner. (He suspected the man of having stolen an all-terrain vehicle. Had he shot him, it would have been murder, regardless of whether the man had stolen the vehicle.)

I have no idea what NFL players may or may not have decided following these various incidents. Whether or not the guy in the car had decided to leave his gun at home or take it with him doesn't matter much, since if he had it he never got a chance to use it.

By and large, a general prudential rule is to avoid taking your recreation at spots where you think you may need a gun to defend yourself. You could get killed, you could kill someone unlawfully, or you could get arrested. But while not everyone follows either general prudential rules or the law, the fact that no one can prevent the PacMan Joneses or Plaxixo Burresses of this world from endangering the public does not mean we should not have laws against their doing so. The law in New York City simply goes to far.

Porchlight

DoT, hooray! Welcome back! I can't tell you how many times these last couple of months I wished you were here to weigh in with your succinct wit. Hope your break was good to you.

Elliott

Great to see you back here, DoT.

Extraneus

The NY City law is particularly draconian, even by NY State standards. Even if one possesses a NY State carry permit, after making it through the gauntlet, he or she still cannot carry in NY City without a separate NY City permit, almost impossible to get except for the politically connected. This forces a NY State resident with a valid carry permit, say some lady living in Yonkers who work nights in the Bronx, to leave her gun at home in order to cross the border to get to work.

Would it be Constitutional for every county, every town, every villiage, to have their own unique carry laws? Seems ripe for a challenge, but that's not related to Plaxico's case.

Jane

Can you get him to pose for a photograph decked out in a CENTRAL MASS ROCKS T-shirt??? :-))

Oh I thought I already posted that one.

Danube of Thought

Keep in mind that all the carry laws under discussion here, and the one applicable to Burress, are handgun laws (I think). As nearly as I can determine, even in New York City you can get a shotgun if you aren't a crook, and a shotgun is fine for home defense--probably better than a handgun for most people.

Extraneus

Wow. OT, but between the bailouts and now 10% of Americans are on food stamps (!), where can *I* apply for some free money? I can't keep supporting all these freeloaders without some compensation!

Probably not many here on the dole, though, huh? Perhaps this isn't the best place to ask that question.

Extraneus

Perhaps I should add that many people on food stamps are fine citizens, just down on their luck. I still I think I might be needing a bailout.

centralcal

This is just hysterical. (Hey, it's a slow news day.)

130,000 Boobs Bobbing On The Sea

Piracy???

JM Hanes

No, Jane. That was the one that was NSFW.

DOT: The has been righted on its axis! Welcome back.

Ann

♥ ♥ ♥ Dot is Back! ♥ ♥ ♥

We missed you!

glenda waggoner

DOT..Welcome, home! My hearts a'racing! You were missed. I hope all is well.
Best news EVAH!

Captain Hate

As pointed out at AoS, even if Plaxidioto had a carry permit, having drank some alc would've put him at odds with the law. Also what kind of nutjob shoves a Glock into the waistband of sweatpants?? In a just world the Glock would've discharged and shot off de fambly jewels and kept that mental defective from sending any flawed genetic material on to another generation.

Ann

Tom,

Would you consider a Christmas link for gift ideas this year? It might be fun and I have some suggestions for men that don't know what to get their gal. I sure could use some ideas from the men here at JOM.

Let's face it, we aren't reading papers or watching the news. We might as well help each other make someone happy since none of us are.

I will start:

Gifts under $100 for women

French soap by Ranc'e. My favorite is Creme grasse savon de beaute: Rance' Jasmine Creme Soap
I give this to my girl friends and they adore it.

Gifts under $100 for men

Jim Harrison books: All of them, especially "Dalva"
My favorite is "Legends of the Fall".


Caro

Thomas C,

Is this close enough?

Ann

Caro, More photos, More photos, More photos!!!

How did you do that? Email me at: annatjom@gmail.com if you get a chance. Bravo!!!

Caro

And a welcome back to DoT from the Eurobabes.

Thomas Collins

That's great, Caro. You and I are the yin and yang of online photo skills. You do amazing things with photos, while I am still figuring out which button to press to take the initial shot from my Blackberry.

Jane

Don't worry Tom, I'm trying to figure out what "blackberry" stands for.

Caro those are simply FAB!

More pix more pix!

larry

Welcome back DoT, you old fart.

clarice

Caro, are you sure those are real?

mdgiles

Okay. To start, Burress is an idiot. Putting a loaded gun in your waistband only works in Hollywood movies. The dude makes (or use to make) many dollars. He couldn't spend a few of those on a holster?

Be that as it may, the Sullivan Law has always been a "racist" joke. It - as most gun laws are - is all about keeping guns out of the hands of the "wrong" people (read minorities, immigrants, etc., etc.). It's main effect is to make sure some guy - or worse - some gal, is walking home in the South Bronx unarmed; while celebrities - who live in security buildings and also have bodyguards - find it fairly easy to get permits.

But, we shouldn't expect more from a city whose anti gun fervor goes so far as to arm it's Auxiliary Police with only a nightstick (got two of them killed with that stupidity).

Burress should challenge the law. It's not as if he's going to have much to do in the near future.

clarice

mdgiles, what a welcome addition you are. (TRF)

Laura

Great Job Caro
Why didn't we take more pictures?

Danube of Thought

Further thanks to all of you for your welcoming remarks.

I think the law that Burress has been charged with is a New York City ordinance, not the Sullivan Law (which was indeed enacted in order to keep guns out of the hands of blacks).

Extraneus's question is interesting to me(differing laws in every municipality, etc.). I'm not sure it's a constitutional issue, but it may be one of preemption. In some areas, when the feds enact a law it preempts the states from enacting conflictin laws. Similarly, state laws can preempt counties and cities from legislating in the same area.

I think that the California Supreme Court ruled a couple of years ago that San Francisco could not enact gun control laws more restrictive than those of the state. God knows what the New York courts would do. But I think there are a lot of interesting grounds for challenging the 3 1/2 year law recently enacted by Bloomberg. Remember, this clown actually sent the cops to arrest the Rolling Stones when they lit up a cigarette on stage near the end of a concert. (The cops arrived too late.)

Extraneus

Just a minor quibble with the Captain's citation of AoS regarding Plaxico's alcohol use. It may not be smart to do, but I don't think there's anything in NY penal law prohibiting a permit holder from drinking while carrying (see section 265).

Still, if he didn't have a permit, and hadn't been denied a permit, how could he challenge the law?

Danube of Thought

Further thanks to all of you for your welcoming remarks.

I think the law that Burress has been charged with is a New York City ordinance, not the Sullivan Law (which was indeed enacted in order to keep guns out of the hands of blacks).

Extraneus's question is interesting to me(differing laws in every municipality, etc.). I'm not sure it's a constitutional issue, but it may be one of preemption. In some areas, when the feds enact a law it preempts the states from enacting conflictin laws. Similarly, state laws can preempt counties and cities from legislating in the same area.

The California courts have recently ruled that San Francisco could not enact gun control laws more restrictive than those of the state. LUN.

God knows what the New York courts would do. But I think there are a lot of interesting grounds for challenging the 3 1/2 year law recently enacted by Bloomberg. Remember, this clown actually sent the cops to arrest the Rolling Stones when they lit up a cigarette on stage near the end of a concert. (The cops arrived too late.)

Danube of Thought

My guess is that Burress could challenge it on the ground that the ordinance on its face makes it futile for him to apply, so he needn't go through the pointless exercise of the application process. But I wouldn't want to bet money on my guess.

Extraneus

Here's a link to NY penal laws.

MayBee

DoT!!!!!!

Extraneus

What, no blacks in the list of famous NY City permit holders?

larry

DoT: By the way, congrats on the CIC trophy. Wait til next year.

Barney Frank

The California courts have recently ruled that San Francisco could not enact gun control laws more restrictive than those of the state.

Nice to see you back DOT.
The NRA and other gun rights groups routinely use state preemption here in California to stop local ordinances.
It's quite effective, as the state legislature and courts know only too well the power state government would lose were preemption ever eliminated or eroded. While CA cities are often near marxist nightmares the rural counties and towns are wild west conservatives and the ensuing policy divisions the loss of preemption would allow would, I believe, result in the political division of the state, a result devoutly to be desired by those of us who hate what our beloved state has become.

Barney Frank

**near-marxist**

matt

what is even more loony about the New York City law is that even police officers cannot carry off duty. For some reason, the state has not bothered to challenge the law. I guess it's a New York thing.

Danube of Thought

Speaking of guns and football, I just had the honor to watch the entire Simpson sentencing hearing, culminating in what appears to be a sentence of a maximum of 33 years, with no eligibility for parole until nine years. And off he went in shacles and chains, to await his introduction to his new friends in the Aryan Nation.

Nice to see Fred and Kim Goldman in the courtroom, and expressing great satisfaction afterward.

Judge Jackie Glass for Woman of the Year. And she's kinda hot.

Danube of Thought

*shackles*

(Back in midseason form already.)

Rick Ballard

It would be great if the Goldman's petitioned Clark County for all the memorabilia evidence - and were upheld.

Jane

I don't know about the hot part, but she was a pretty spectacular Judge in this case.

clarice

How long before it gets through OJ's craziness that he is in jail and is not getting out for a long time----and no one gives a damn?

kim

She denied that motion for bail practically before it was out of the defense attorney's mouth.
====================================

kim

Interestingly enough, it used to be, and may still be, easy for doctors to get a concealed carry permit. I think back in the day of house calls, their little black bags were targets.
======================================

kim

In NYC.
====

Fred

Plaxico was in a nightclub. He might have had something to drink. Booze and guns do not mix. Ever.

Plaxico could afford an armed bodyguard, who hopefully would remain sober.

Permitting guns to the people of the Bronx, for example, would be little different than giving out guns to the population of a prison. The results would be similar.

The constitution is not a suicide pact.

sophy

Welcome to our game world, my friend asks me to buy some Hellgate London gold .

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Wilson/Plame