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December 14, 2008

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RattlerGator

Forgive me if y'all have gone over this extensively in previous threads (I haven't read any comments in weeks), but if Barry O has no role under state law in the appointment of the Illinois senator, and the appointment belongs to the people of Illinois as represented by their Governor, yet Barry O still dared to submit a list of "acceptable" candidates (not suggested or preferred, but ACCEPTABLE) -- how is it not obvious that he was *driving the train* on the negotiation over the appointment???

pagar

Speaking of the AP "young and inexperienced"
article, I wonder if this article has any special meaning?

Defining 'Mutt' Obama

Lun

peter

I love the way the New York Times buries on Page 41 the story that Rahm Emanuel and Blagojevitch had had contact with each other over filling the Senate seat. The article doesn't say much else, however.

hrtshpdbox

It seems more and more that the "contact" between Rahm and Blag was a meeting and not a phone call, doesn't it? Even if not wiretapped, it provides Fitz with the opportunity to snag his favorite crime, perjury.

If Rove was the target re: Plame, because Joe Wilson said so, then who knows who Fitz perceives as the target this time? Maybe ultimately Axelrod, for daring to say in '05 that Fitz doesn't know how to draw the line between crime and politics.

If Obama doesn't assert as much, and soon, I'd have to figure that Fitz may not have job security.

registry recovery

I can only agree with the above comment that Barry O has no role under state law in the appointment of the Illinois senator. Barry O still dared to submit a list of "acceptable" candidates (not suggested or preferred, but ACCEPTABLE) -- how is it not obvious that he was *driving the train* on the negotiation over the appointment???

Wake UP people

Extraneus

If Obama doesn't assert as much, and soon, I'd have to figure that Fitz may not have job security.

He's walking a fine line, too, hrts, because if Obama makes one negative comment about Fitz, or even a less-than-positive one, Bush would have a gift-wrapped excuse to fire Fitz and appoint a Special Counsel to take over. O Happy Days if that happens.

clarice

Newsweek has two interesting stories today:
Klaidman reports on the rebellion that occurred inside the DoJ led by Comey--never mentions Libby who I believe was a victim of that war. Klaidman's take, of course, is very one-sided and guess which side he's on?

Isikoff details more of the "whistleblower" on the FISA program--Thomas M Tamm. Again, this puke is made into a hero.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/174601

ben

Good that someone can stomach Newsweek and report on its putrid contents, I can no longer bring myself to open it even if its free on an airplane (actually most airlines no longer offer liberal magazines for the entertainment of the masses, but I miss Golf Digest).

ben

Meanwhile the WSJ has an article with a catchy title:

"Even Chicago's Crooks Are Appalled by Blagojevich.
Extorting Children's Hospital is a new political low."

One of the points made in the article is that while Obama has vowed to change the world, he has actually done nothing to change local politics when he had the opportunity.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122912965021703363.html

Porter

OK (sleeves rolled up on the pj's)

Questions and answers.

Background: The state of Illinois has no apparatus, nor the requirements, for any donations to politicians to be made public. All information is done so on a voluntary basis. (as I last understood the law). Campaign funds may be used for legal purposes and, until recently, could be converted to a retirement account. Now, personal income is not always reported, also voluntary.

On to the fun: Rahm definitely met with Blago. The question I have is this: Did Fitz tape it, was someone wearing a wire? The discussion probably included Obama's Senate seat, as well as, Rahm's own seat. Why actually meet with Rod? The guy is so dumb that he doesn't recognize regular English unless it comes from his circle of yes men. The same circle that threw his father-in-law out. Dick Mell recognized the cash making opportunity the Springfield seat possessed, but his son-in-law believed his own press and thought he could parlay it to POTUS. Everything he did was an attempt to leverage his current position to that end. I digress.

Since Rahm met with Rod, and probably fibbed a bit to Fitz about it, his whole life becomes an investigator's subject. In particular, his sudden wealth (over $4M, I understand) since becoming a Congressman. I understand his silence. He needs to know how many cards Fitz has, then he knows how much to tell and who to give up.

Rod Blagojevich is not the target of this investigation. He is a fulcrum.

If. I repeat. If, Mr. Fitzgerald is allowed to go forward with this, a good majority of Illinois' politicians are going to be like cattle in the feedlot. Too dumb to know what's going on in the big building next to them. This is really dangerous stuff, because too many peple make their living keeping these pols in operation. That's what machine politics is. All these types are not the bright ones. The guys who "sent" them are, the Jimmy DeLeo's of the system. Ward bosses, and the like. This is the entire method of government in the state of Illinois now.

This is the system Mr. Fitzgerald is investigating. He announced the arrest as he did to slant the jury pool in his favor. Call it the opening serve in this match. Rod answered by hiring a dice player. Really dumb.

If Rahm hires Sidley and Austin, he's going to give up Obama. If it's Dan Webb, he's not, but Daley, Pelosi or Reid are not out of the question. Whether or not Rahm can be levered is the real question. Axelrod's not going to get played, he's been on the hook before and knows how to wriggle off.

If Mr. Fitzgerald makes it past February 1 in his position, this will go very deep.

Ken

Check out what an FBI weatherground informant has to say about Bill Ayers http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081214/COL05/812140363/1004/COL

kim

Danke, Porter. Even those of us with special understanding of Fitz, can't predict. The contradiction is his veneer of probity, and his injust probes.
====================================

kim

Ken's link works if you stop at the 1004. Wasn't it an enlisted men's dance at Dix, not an officer's?
==========================================

clarice

Porter--I think Rahm made his money before he entered Congress (though after he worked for Clinton) and why wouls Sidley & Austin 's hiring mean he's going to give up Obama--It was the firm that hired Bernardine and Michelle--and therfore seemingly intimately involved in the dans Chicago.

PD

One of the points made in the article is that while Obama has vowed to change the world, he has actually done nothing to change local politics when he had the opportunity.

Similar to the way that, while on campaign he spoke about his ability to move us beyond anger and divisiveness, there was no evidence of his having done so with those close to him such as Michelle and Rev. Wright.

kim

Ah, just like with Nixon, and to a lesser extent with Clinton, we will see the executive become progressively paretic as the fear and trembling metastasize.
===================================

kim

I wonder if Bill is telling Hillary to turn down State.
===============================

Giftolit

Fitz is Obama's Specter like Specter was Plame's?

Whistle blowers are back covering for Plame's domestic intelligence CIA spying on political groups at NSA like her dem pals. She blew the whistle here and no one showed up to the party.

It's funny these spy families got caught up together in a phone company scam. Auditing accounts is a mistake.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/174601

http://www.jimgilliam.com/2004/01/vanity_fairs_profile_on_joseph_wilson_and_valerie_plame.php
"I was in the N.S.A. for three years," says her father, retired air-force ..... Vanity Fair's profile on Joseph Wilson and Valerie Plame (01.17.2004) ...

pagar

kim, I've always heard NCO Club, but regardless, those killed could have been from any level, military dependents that were of age floated between the clubs. Military members dated from the local communities etc. I can't see much difference in whether one hit an Officer's club or enlisted, but I would guess the largest crowd on an average weekend would be at the enlisted club.
I put Ken's link LUN

kim

So, Gifto, where to the NSA revisionism?
==========================

kim

Oh, yes, Pagar, I agree. It's immaterial whether it was officers or enlisted men. And it was the reporter's error, not one by the subject of the article. Look, they(Obama and posse) are all lying bigtime, but I know I"m preaching to the choir. I don't believe Obama can sustain the fraud. Look, it's already breaking down before inauguration. Will the floodgates break or open in the next month?

Right now, a birth certificate making him ineligible would be a deus ex machina, and I can see some former supporters already praying for such a god.
======================================

pagar

Watching the stock market lately-someone has been bidding up home builder stocks. This story might make one want to rethink that.

"U.S. foreclosure filings climbed 28 percent in November from a year earlier and a brewing “storm” of new defaults and job losses may force 1 million homeowners from their properties next year, RealtyTrac Inc. said."

Under these conditions, I cannot imagine homebuilders stocks being better off in 2009.

kim

Had I any money, I'd buy EWA. But, remember, past performance often predicts future, so you pays your money and you takes your losses.
==============================

Ranger

Well, I still think Daley is Fitz's prime target, but Obama hiring one of Daley's former chiefs of staff as a presidential advisor may have put him on the hit list. Its the CoSs that actually do the work of corruption in the Illinois system. The Boss makes the big decisions, but the CoS is the one that carries the messeges, negotiates the details, and then gives the specific orders as to who is to be hired or contracted. By putting up a former Daley CoS for Senate, then hiring her himself, Obama may have just signaled Fitz that he is a worthy target himself.

narciso

That assumes that much of that Vanity Fair piece is true; which is doubtful, it possible Valerie's father was TDYed to the NSA, at one time; but I don't recall that
being any part of Laura Rozen's postcript
to her memoir."Ishmael Jones" pretty much demolishes the whole Plame facade. It does bring up how when the first big brouhaha over Passportgate regarding Bill Clinton, I wasn't surprised but I was kind of
nonplussed.If they really wanted to know something the NSA's Minaret files or that of the CIA's Chaos would be probative; in case he was being an asset or a target. Does it really matter whether they were commissioned or NCO's this bastard wanted to kill Americans on our own soil, to help out the enemy.

The sad fact is those of us in the know, realize Obama never made a difference to the school district where the CAC funds were
destined; his legislative district where he voted present 147 times, or much of his ephemeral Senate career. That's why the Daley machine kept moving him up. So why would you expect him to do anything
constructive on the national level. Those things he did vote for the Molochian abortion bill, or laws that virtually extinguish any possibility of gun ownership
are a veritable chamber of horrors.

Sarah on the other hand, has been a
veritable 'whirling dervish' of activity from city council to mayor to petroleum commissioner to governor, to her very brief campaign stint, showing a clear reformist record, upsetting too many apple carts; if such a thing is possible, The road from Wasilla to Juneau is strewn with much road kill, like moose carcasses. There's no reason to doubt that she wouldn't have been equally influential as VP or any other higher office; and that's one of the things
that sticks in my craw about this election.

kim

Do you not think Fitz's target is a moving one? Clearly, he was aiming higher than Libby, but the fundamental innocence of the administration in that case stymied him so badly he worked out his wrath on Scooter, with a joke of a case. His targets in Illinois are not innocent.

Gad, it gives me a sick feeling to place my hopes for change with Fitz. But, what else have I got?
================================

kim

It will only take one disillusioned true believer to drop Obama. Don't you think there may well be a bunch of them in Illinois right now?
=======================================

kim

Rezko believed in him. Wright believed in him. Ayers believed in him. Emanuel believed in him. There are more. What can those cynical Clintons be thinking?
====================================

Extraneus

it gives me a sick feeling to place my hopes for change with Fitz.

Axelrod said himself that Fitz uses the same gun for an elephant and a flea. I'm hoping Fitz gets canned and replaced with someone who can tell the difference between big and small game, and who hunts with an elephant gun.

ifbunkyhadBlago'shairhewouldbemasteroftheuniverse

Fitz still sucks. Libby did nothing. This mess in Chicago will lead to a couple of second tier throw overs.

kim

Can the Electors be sued for failing to verify eligibility? I'm not counting on Congress to halt this mess. The press is too slow off the mark, and the Supremes must be waiting for the right case. Obama's pattern of concealment is just too revelatory.
=====================================

kim

Axelrod is a flea infested with elephants. Better, he knows he can make a flea look like an elephant and vice versa. Look what he's done with the featherweight, Obama. It may take someone bigger than Fitz to crack the machine, but sooner or later, crack it must. It's become brittle.
================================

kim

And it's too fragile a political structure to run the world, like our President must. Look how fraggy it gets locally when the pressure is on.
==================================

kim

Rahmbama rode the pumpkin coach to the ball, but time marches on.
================

MayBee

and the appointment belongs to the people of Illinois

Yeah, that's the funny thing to me. Obama says that after he'd already tried to get the seat for Valerie Jarrett. It reminds me of Bill Clinton making a big deal about always wanting to open his office in Harlem (after he'd already tried to spend a fortune on an office in midtown).

A Sun Times reporter on Meet the Press points out the humiliation (and outrage) of Jesse Jackson Jr not having been on Obama's list.

Danube of Thought

I think Fitz is pretty much untouchable at this point. Obama would be reckless and downright crazy to fire him--the press would reprise the Saturday Night Massacre, whether it's truly comparable or not.

kim

It's comparable enough, DoT, but the press won't quit carrying water for Obama until he disillusions them. I don't know what it will take to do that.
================================

kim

Fools that they be.
============

JM Hanes

pagar:

That MSNBC article was something of a hoot. It deserves a proper fisking, and I'm happy to put off my chores in order to do the honors this morning.

The question of Obama's true colors: Black, white ... or neither? generally arises when folks want to make some other point. I did wonder how old the AP author is (which I've begun to wonder about most of the commentariat) -- and had the first of several laughs -- when he/she wrote: "Intermarriage and the decline of racism are dissolving ancient definitions." Ditto for the idea that we're just now noticing that "the spectrum of skin tones among African-Americans...is evidence of widespread white ancestry."

Apprently Obama confounds us all, and "as soon as he was elected, the seeds of confusion began putting down roots." I like the "roots" metaphor, don't you? I'd have said it was a pre-election boondoggle myself, but never mind. Now that Obama has "shattered assumptions about race," we suddenly don't know what to call him. Is he "African-American, mixed-race, half-and-half, multiracial.."

That the AP doesn't suffer such agonies seems abundantly clear when the reporter immediately refers to "U.S. Rep. G. K. Butterfield, a black man who by all appearances is white." LOL! Irony, not a "crescendo" of "debate," is what abounds, although the author did manage to scout out a "half a loaf" comment from the obligatory white racist.

On the flip side, black teacher, concerned about the fact that Obama numbers no slaves among his ancestors, says, "It just seems unfair to totally label him African-American without acknowledging that he was born to a white mother." Who thought up that term, anyway? We must be abandoning those "ancient definitions" again, when an African father and an African family aren't sufficient to put the African in African-American

I'd say the only interesting note is sounded by this tidbit on how people view their own race, not Obama's:

Six million people, or 2 percent of the population, now say they belong to more than one race, according to the most recent census figures. Another 19 million people, or 6 percent of the population, identify themselves as "some other race" than the five available choices.
When 8% aren't willing to accept the proffered options, I'd say the folks being confounded here are the ones trying to use demographics for political and legal purposes, or insisting that every entity under the sun should "look like America" in microcosm.

kim

Ah, Congress votes by state delegation, not en masse, if they choose. How do those votes add up?
==========================

narciso

He was aiming at W, like Lawrence Walsh, the first of those weak kneed "Powell Moderates" was aiming at Reagan. A deputy figure in the Eisenhower Justice Department,
one of the vaunted Paris peace talks negotiators, the only one who was ever worth a damn was Negroponte. And Kissinger exiled him to Saloniki and Guayaquil for his insolence in defending the South Vietnamese interests.


Fitzgerald ignored Toensing's warning of the inapplicability of that law, much less the bandied about applications of the Espionage Act! unlike Ahab he had to settle for a whale pup. He never charged Armitage, or even put Valerie or Joe's story under scrutiny. He let Conrad Black's even more disreputable partners, become prosecution witnesses against him. Fitzgerald seems to
suspiciously never focus on the right
target, first it was Daley's aides, then the Rezko land deal which would have led to Auchi; which would open up a whole series of international malfeasance but he's too big a target, and now Blago.Comey's yet another one of that breed, focusing on Martha Stewart, as if she was the enemy of the Republic, and refusing to re-authorize surveilance, on the eve of the Madrid bombings.

kim

Yah, and we see Comey and Tamm newly lauded as we speak. Where is that going?
=============================

JBean

Kim --

It will only take one disillusioned true believer to drop Obama. Don't you think there may well be a bunch of them in Illinois right now?

I'm afraid it would take someone exceedingly brave, or terrified of being jailed, to buck the Obama/Media/Dem machine at this point, when all their schemes and fantasies finally lie within reach. Ask Sarah Palin, or Joe the Plumber. Those two were essentially innocent, but they've paid the price (and it looks like Palin will continue to be beat up on until neutralized).  It hasn't been lost on Obama's enemies

ifbunkyhadBlago'shairhewouldbemasteroftheuniverse

Prosecutorial discretion

Fitz does not know what that means.

JM Hanes

Clarice:

"I think Rahm made his money before he entered Congress."

Yes, in fact Emanuel may be one of the few in Congress who did. I read an article somewhere which tracked his career in re finances and remember thinking (to my surprise) that it all looked like pretty standard, successful, professional stuff. It's not like the guy isn't smart enough to make his money the old fashioned way, even if that may be unusual in Chicago.

Porter:

"The guys who "sent" them are, the Jimmy DeLeo's of the system. Ward bosses, and the like."

Appreciate the insider's perspective, but do you think you're climbing high enough on the ladder here?

Thomas Collins

Zero is actually fortunate that Rahm is in this up to this ears. Rahm will be more than enough of a carcass for MSM. I know it's early in this game (H2O gate started as a third rate burglary), but at this point the odds are that Zero skates.

My view of MSM is that they are so heavily invested in Zero, he would have to be on tape stuffing payoff cash in his boxers for MSM to go after him.

centralcal

John McCain is reminding me this morning why I so detest him.

And, Bush is reminding me of why I admire him . . . saying farewell in Iraq.

Then there is the MSM, reminding me to continue my prayers for their conversion or their passing.

Just another ordinary day.

kim

You have a point, JBean, but I'm talking about the disillusionment of a 'true believer', one whose previous belief was, in fact, delusional. There are a bunch of them on the extreme left and they are becoming disillusioned. Some of them must know damning stuff.

For poor instance, all those people who really believed that Obama represented a new style of politics must be watching in amazement. The product of a corrupt machine cannot change his stripes overnight. The real dissonance here is that what so many hoped we'd change from was, in fact, a very honest regime, Bush's. All comparison going forward will not be to Obama's advantage. Even the press will catch on eventually. Obama's schtick only works in the stinking stew of corruption. He does not know how to rule with integrity.
=======================================

peter

Anyone have any good DVD movie suggestions for watching over the holidays? My idea of New Year's Eve is to watch a good noir film or a nice foreign film.

Porter

The round about point I was getting to is this: Mr. Fitzgerald's target is the systemic corruption in Illinois, the names are just part of the scorecard.

And one thing about Libby/Plame and such, We are all very aware that many things were said out on the steps of that DC Courthouse, but we are not privelidged to know what was actually said inside that Grand Jury room. They could be two different things entirely. I would not put that past Armitage nor Wilson. Libby screwed up and paid for it, justly or unjustly. Knowing that the press routinely have lied in the past about these things doesn't mean they won't lie in front of a camera to save their self-perceived reputations. But, being the cowards they truly are, sang like little birdies in front of the actual Grand Jury when confronted with the reality of Judith Miller's eighty days of DC sponsored vacation time attempting to "defend her 1st Amendment rights". Just my view on the whole fooferaw, and it was just a complete shame and waste of money.

JM Hanes

narciso:

"Fitzgerald ignored Toensing's warning of the inapplicability of that law, much less the bandied about applications of the Espionage Act!"

Folks like the Trib op-ed writer I mentioned last night, will doubtless be showing a revisionist appreciation for Toensing. They will join the rush of other folks adopting all the arguments proffered by Republicans in defense of the Bush Administration, lo these long 8 years.

kim

Stuffing cash in his drawers wouldn't be enough, but perhaps constant Category 5 disingenuity might. Who among the press cannot be stunned when Obama claims that he is sure none of his staff made contact with Blag. That is Richter scale laughable. 'Not how we do business' is the new 'I am not a crook'.
=================================

kim

Porter, we don't think Libby screwed up. Fitzgerald suborned perjury by Russert and others.

The FBI one morning,
Lost its notes suborning.
Eckenrode,
Where is that toad?
He's wanted at a harrowing.
=================

section9

You people don't understand, do you.

Billions, literally tens of billions of dollars, of Illinois pork depends on the Messiah being sworn in as President. We know now that Fitz sat on the Blago indictment since June to protect Zero from being adversely affected by the news. My take is that Zero still takes him out upon inauguration, along with all the other sitting U.S. Attorneys, just like Clinton did, in order to protect Daley and the entire Machine. Obama will pay back his friends.

They're the ones "who sent him".

He must do this and use Clinton as precedent. Daley roped him up the ladder for pork reasons and now the big payoff is coming. You don't think the Cook County Democratic Organization is going to let a little thing like the Law stand in the way of their pork, do you?

Hell to the no.

kim

But, otherwise your 'fooferaw' is right on, and your perspicacity lends weight to your credibility.
==============================

peter

Anyone have any good DVD movie suggestions for watching over the holidays? My idea of New Year's Eve is to watch a good noir film or a nice foreign film.

kim

So what are we going to do, Lobster Lady Tuidsmere? Pitiful, section9, to have to depend on the lifers in the DoJ, isn't it?
====================================

narciso

I saw that Tamm excerpt in Powerline, made me want to hurl. How many dead Americans will he be responsible for in the next few years. No they have "no code, and no honor"
like the supposedly antiquated catch phrases
of "A Few Good Men" with a precious few exceptions like that of John Kass. Jack Ryan, probably had some, he gave up
investment banking, to teach in the
Chicago Public Schools, but look what Axelrod did to him. Mark Kirk, is another notable exception. Hope he gets a chance at either Blago or Obama's seat.

I guess with everything I've learned, not so much experienced, I'm more a a starry eyed idealist than even the most koolaid
drinking Obama supporter. I refuse to consider that this is the best we can have;
no matter how good they say the gruel tastes. It's tough sometimes, they had Chris Dodd, friend of Mozillo, the key member in the Glass/Steagal veto override, the financial oversight bill that gave us Enron and WorldCom, talking up the old Dem talking points to Jorge Ramos of Univision. Think a Latin David Gregory and you have the right image; about the precarious nature
of the Big 3, the 8 years of stagnant wages, the whole shebang. I'm sure they had
a GOP voice out there, but I clicked off before that. I haven't bothered to watch "Meet the Press" or even the ABC
show, because I don't have the stomach for the lies and pettifoggery anymore.


Captain Hate

Gad, it gives me a sick feeling to place my hopes for change with Fitz. But, what else have I got?

Well Opresent had the chance to make a bi-partisan statement by aksing WTF at the Libby conviction but somehow didn't view a principled stand as being beneficial to his ambitions.

AoS comments are currently disabled but I have a *lot* of pent up profanity at ahole McCain badmouthing the RNC for "not being helpful" by calling for the Obama team to be more forthcoming in the Blago situation. What happened to naming names, Maverick? Please stfu you worthless pos. Please Arizona, drum up a credible primary challenger against this RINO.

kim

Be comforted, narciso, by the fact that the Chicago Way is inadequate to run a polity as big as the US or the world, and that is what is now being asked of it. Too bad we are all unwilling passengers on Obama Jones's careen to the train wreck.
================================

Captain Hate

Anyone have any good DVD movie suggestions for watching over the holidays?

In Bruges

kim

'Hombre Mirando al Sudeste'.
==================

narciso

Yes, the President always on the job, it doesn't matter how hard it was, whether it was the various campaigns of the war on Terror, the social security reform push, free trade in the Americas and even Africa, et al. Remind me again, central, what dang fool McCain has done this time; or maybe I don't want to know.

You're almost certainly right JM, Carville took up Nixon's arguments, as soon as the White House first heard the word
"Whitewater" and everyone had Scalia's dissent in Morrison on their telepromters if not on cuecards without skipping a beat; when Starr came along.

JM Hanes

Porter:

"The round about point I was getting to is this: Mr. Fitzgerald's target is the systemic corruption in Illinois, the names are just part of the scorecard."

I thought you were pretty straight forward, not round about at all. By higher up, I meant higher up in Chicago, not DC! Although my own opinion is based on watching Fitz closely in the Libby case, I came to much the same conclusion that you have.

I believe what Fitz wants to destroy is the entire corrupt infrastructure of Chicago, and I don't think he's going to let himself be "distracted" by Obama who is fundamentally an anomalous by-product of that system. Emanuel looks like an infinitely more efficient can opener, and unless Obama turns out to be a Pakistani Islamic insurgent, I don't think Fitz can touch him -- especially from a Chicago jurisdiction.

kim

Well, narciso, it's going to be fun, but cold comfort, to ridicule the hypocrisy and the cognitive dissonance. That's what I think this revisionism about surveillance is leading to, a justification for Obama to spy on everyone.
================================

narciso

I was right, I didn't want to know., You know I'd almost take back my vote, if Sarah hadn't been on the ticket. They targeted your own state, they laughed at your war wounds, they tried to tie a none existent
affair to you, have you no honor, Sir, Rhetorical Question.

kim

Right, JMH, but Obama is dirty with ACORN and SEIU and Axelrod. He should be a target, even if he isn't.
==============================

jean

NARCISO How do you keep so much information and facts at your finger tips?I'm amazed at your recall of things long forgotten by most

Jane

JMH, read Kass' article about Jimmy deLeo. LUN

I still think Obama will promote Fitz to some cushy job in DC and replace him with a, shall we say, friendlier face.

And don't forget the media. Yesterday I heard a reporter in Boston state as fact that had Obama known that Blago was under investigation in 2006 he would not have supported him.

A lot of that seems to be going around.

kim

Extra special wiring, jean.
================

kim

What's funny Jane, is that the press is covering Obama's ass faster than he is. How long has this been going on? Oh, Ella.
===============================

kim

A year and a half ago, on Wizbang, I had a particularly fine dialogue with a fella, well after three days it was reduced to a dialogue, and what the surveillance business comes down to is that you have just got to trust the honesty and the integrity of those administering the program. I trusted Bush, and my interlocuter didn't. I imagine the positions will be reversed under Obama.

But show me a flaw in Bush's integrity, and show me a single example of Obama's. He is crooked to the core, and we're just beginning to see the shine taken off the polished veneer.
==================================

jean

Kim.maybe I can get Narciso to walk around with me when Alzheimers kicks in.McCain couldn't stand the NYT not liking him.Now they will start giving him the press he seems to crave

JBean

Kim --

Even the press will catch on eventually. Obama's schtick only works in the stinking stew of corruption. He does not know how to rule with integrity.

Well, integrity and Chicago are at opposite poles. The problem with what passes for the press nowadays, among so many other things, is that a certain amount of corruption is viewed as inevitable, and the goal posts appear to moving daily to accommodate Obama-mania.

How far is too far? When is the line crossed? How much evasiveness and how many contradictory statements will they accept to cover their own culpability and unethical behavior thus far?  Will they willingly participate in slaying the dragon-slayer, Fitz, to cover their own guilt?

Based on what we've seen so far, the answers aren't that encouraging. I fully expect a "Rev. Wright moment" this week, with a great sigh of relief, and the only question being whether or not they can convincingly extricate Emanuel from this mess.

topsecretk9

Fitzgerald seems to suspiciously never focus on the right target

Blind umpire or rigging the game?

Comey's yet another one of that breed...refusing to re-authorize surveilance, on the eve of the Madrid bombings.

hmmm.

kim

I can but hope they'll turn on Obama. They'll have a fine excuse once the smoke clears from the wreckage of Obama's choo choo train. Bush's clear sailing will also be an instructive contrast.
======================================

Danube of Thought

I'm still awaiting any reason to believe that Obama personally is guilty of any criminal behavior. And it's not the job of a prosecutor to identify a defendant and then try to find some evidence against him (Giuliani was the master of that approach).

I Fitz's target is Chicago and Illinois corruption, and he will follow the evidence wherever it leads, all to the greater glory of Fitz, among other things.

The sum and substance of the fallout against Obama is that it will be very clear that, although he purports to want to change the world, in twenty years he didn't make a dent in Chicago.

kim

Whether they like it or not, the gut feeling of the electorate will become that under Bush we did alright, and as soon as Obama came on the scene, the world went to Hell in a handbasket. I think this is inevitable. What agonies must we endure until the world rights itself is my question.
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kim

He not only didn't dent it, he thrived in it and machine politics got him where he is. The whole election was a Chicago style putsch, money and influence right out of the box.
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kim

We're not talking law, here, DoT; we're talking mythology.
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Rick Ballard

Narciso,

The question is what Axelrod had on Turncoat McCain.

JM Hanes

kim:

I think you're deep into keepin' hope alive territory here.

There's no way the Democratic establishment is going to let Obama go down, no matter how jaundiced the press may become. I think Obama needs Emanuel in a big way, but he's caved to considerably less pressure before. If he cuts Emanuel loose, Rahm will have all the credibility of a jilted former employee. His get out of jail free cards are in Chicago.

For now, however, Obama's favorables have yet to reflect any damage, and I don't think we'll be getting a lot more in the way of real news out of Fitzgerald's office for a long time to come. If it weren't for the Chicago Trib tipping his hand (which is intriguing when you think about it), I doubt we'd have heard anything at all yet. This story needs more legs if it is to survive the holidays and compete with the run up to America's Historic Inauguration in the public consciousness.

kim

Hope springs eternal in the human beast. Despite the belief of the 'true believers', Obama is a false prophet. This will come out eventually. I say, why not sooner rather than later. The sooner, the less permanent damage, and that is a good to be hoped for as well as worked for.

So, show me the birth certificate.
====================

kim

If the Democratic establishment can be made to understand that Chicago and Obama are damaging the brand, then we may hope for change. In the light of the last week, don't you think some of those superdelegates would like their choice back? Obama will hurt them, and some of them may be catching on.
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Ranger

I have a question for those in the know about US Attny positions. I was under the impression that though they are political appointees, they are also appointed for specific 4 years terms. I my understanding was that they can't technically be "fired", but rather that the President can ask for their resignations, and under professional tradition, they submit them when asked. Out of tradition, they would all submit letters to the new administration, and the new administration would decide who to keep and who to let go. This is why the old system of letting them finish out their terms under the new administraiton was followed until Cliton took office and accepted all of them across the board, because technically, the President can't actually get rid of someone who doesn't want to resign.

Would it be possible for Fitz to refuse to submit his resignation if Obama asked for it?

centralcal

JMH: "I think Obama needs Emanuel in a big way..."

I think so too. Our new emporer has no clothes and no clue. He needs a seasoned operator in D.C. Axelrod isn't it. He creates myths, but hasn't the foggiest in how to perpetuate them. Jane, can tell the tale about that in her home state.

Narciso - Captain Hate pretty much laid out McCain's latest heresy. I will donate to any candidate in Arizona that wants to take him on and hopefully put him out. Meanwhile, we better get used to Johnny boy doing pretty much whatever the Dems command him to do.

Meanwhile, the only "faith" I have in Fitz is that he is nuts in a much more sinister way than Blago. One never knows for sure what windmill this Don Quixote is tilting at. But, he sure has the cockroaches in Illinois scurrying about. So for that, I am cheering him on (however, brief it may be).

Ranger

For now, however, Obama's favorables have yet to reflect any damage, and I don't think we'll be getting a lot more in the way of real news out of Fitzgerald's office for a long time to come...

Posted by: JM Hanes | December 14, 2008 at 12:55 PM

All that is true, but this is the first salvo of a long offensive. Fitz wanted to sow chaos with this, and he has. He also has possibly snaged a witness that can give him the inner workings of Da Mayor's office with Harris.

Though Emanuel is the big name people are focusing on right now, Jarret may be the bigger problem down the road. She was a Chief of Staff for Daley for 5 years, so she did a lot of heavy lifting in the corrption biz in Chicago. She is also part of Obama's inncer circle now. It will be hard to say that "this is not the person I knew" about her.

Jane

Great news @ my s-i-l..surgery was successful-she is off respirator and sitting in chair complaining! God Bless!

I'm reposting Glenda's post here, cause I bet everyone wants to know.

YIPPEE

Jane

Jarret is also very tied to Rezko if I recall correctly.

ben

"It will only take one disillusioned true believer to drop Obama"

I believe this fervently and thought it would happen before the election...hard to believe there isn't one true believer willing to flip, but remember Clinton could have been history if only the MacDougals, Hubbel, Monica, etc. had called a press conference, and none did. Maybe, just maybe, Obama stepped on someone on the way up, who might now be willing to talk now that the dike might be leaking so to speak.

centralcal

Jane: great to hear about Glenda's SIL.

JM Hanes

DoT:

"And it's not the job of a prosecutor to identify a defendant and then try to find some evidence against him."

That's precisely the basis of my own dim view of Fitzgerald. I'm convinced that Fitz is absolutely sure he knows who the bad guys are going in. Investigation means digging up evidence on his targets, ignoring evidence which might lead elsewhere, and then looking for any conceivable charge that has a wing and a prayer of sticking.

centralcal

ben: "Maybe, just maybe, Obama stepped on someone on the way up..."

Zero doesn't have it in him. He is too busy being cool and non-committal in all things, being led around by the powers that be - saying, thinking, doing what he is told. The big bad *sses are those whom he surrounds himself with.

You see, I think Zero fails when the strings to his puppet masters are cut or tangled up.

Ranger

Oh, and don't forget that a certain First Spouse also worked in Da Mayor's office during the 90s. If Fitz stays to form, when the indictment against Daley comes down it will allege a pattern of corruption going back 'almost two decades.' Then there will be people very close to Obama who may be asked some very tough questions.

centralcal

If Rahm goes under the bus (highly unlikely because the need of him is too great), who do you suppose would be appointed to take his place. It has to be a big bad ass power player, doesn't it?

matt

good news Jane. Hope she's out of the woods and on her way home soon.

kim

Maybe not, cc. Bush's CoS may be a power player, but his is a name not in the news, much. How many citizens can name him, and if they do, not confuse him with the John who has a similarly spelled last name?
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narciso

I guess I have an internal hyperlink, tying disparate details together, I haven't really been able to do it on paper; you've seen the results. Id hate to make a "John Nash" reference, because the Herald
specially is not worth keeping, much less clipping. I guess I got it from my late grandfather, who was similarly able to retain great swaths of information on a whole variety of subjects. The Herald's lead story is about the 'faded achievements of the Castro Revolution'; by a former police beat reporter who ended up on the foreign desk. I don't have to tell you, what kind of blow to the gut, that has in my former neck of the woods.

Regretably, Rick, Axelrod probably didn't need to have anything on John. He's kind of the 'Ambrose Bierce of politicians', kind of like Dole, a little too cynical about his own party, much less the opposition, He was always more understanding of the "One's
needs, than of his running mate. Going on the menagerie that is the View, going on Katie Couric, during the bailout brouhaha, than apologizing to David Letterman's for the latter's civic illiteracy; how much selfabasement can one man take. Maybe it is a class thing, or too much time is
Washington's muddy swamp. That might explain
things like the extravagant expenses in wardrobe and other items; which was not her doing. The Palin's have undoubtedly seen hard times in their early years, although they have become more successful in the intervening years. They would undoubtedly had a better grasp of what others are feeling in this downtime. The Obama's on the otherhand, have had every advantage that anyone could possibly imagine, and yet they are still bitter at society. That's puts them certainly in the celebrity category; and that might have been part of their appeal ,like Brad and Matt and Angelina I'm sad to say. That's why I'm kind of glad, Sarah's 4,000 miles away from this in a way, even though she would have really brought change and I dare say hope. But she was probably more right than wrong, when she said, "It wasn't our time"

matt

Both Barack and Michelle were locked into the Chicago system at an early age. They are part and parcel of the politics of corruption, and his record shows he basically wanted to stay away from anything that could jeopardize his goal of high office.

The question becomes whom does he owe, and who owes him, and how much and how corrupt were the transactions. Chicago politics is as dirty as it gets, except maybe Nigeria, and one doesn't simply get ahead on community organizing, CAC, and being a beacon of hope and change.

If not guilty himself, unfortunately the fact is that his supprting cast is well tainted. Congress is going to be fractious already, and if they see an indecisive, scandal riddden chief executive, he's toast. Charlie Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid et al will have a field day trying to be the big fish in the pond.

Johnny Mac is already making kissy face and will probably turncoat in the next 6 months.

This could be an epic disaster for or country, and no one should want that right now.

centralcal

kim: I get your point about Bush and his COS. BUT, Bush himself is a doer - he had run the State of Texas, he had observed first hand the halls of power when his Dad was President.

Zero has done NOTHING in his entire "career." He is much more in need I think of someone who recognizes, understands, and is not afraid to wield power. Zero can only opine about such things - and usually emptily.

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Wilson/Plame