Sunday Open Thread

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Comments

[DrJ]

cc, I was thinking much the same thing. The musicians I know are in symphony orchestras, by and large. I've had the privilege to attend master classes given by some outstanding people (like Solti and Kaderabek). I've played under the direction of Rubenstein's favorite sound engineer, Max Wilcox. A high school buddy makes some of the best horns in the world (including those used by Winston Marsalis).

I did the usual high-school horn band/Jazz band/blues thing, and appreciate much of it, but the older stuff is more me. A good evening includes playing some Beethoven Sonatas or Chopin Ballades at the grand.

I should add that if one gets a chance to see Sonny Rollins to do so. He still puts on one outstanding show.

[Pal2Pal (Sara)]

I grew up on classical music at home, but the best day of my young pre-teen life was a day my Mother stopped in the record store to buy something classical for herself and overheard a song being played in the next booth that she fell in love with. After asking the clerk, she discovered early Johnny Cash during his Sun Recording days. The clerk told her there were a couple of other Sun artists she might like and she bought them all. All 45s. The others were orig. Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis. My popularity soared after that and the boys all fell in love with my Mom.

[Pal2Pal (Sara)]

An odd girl Dusty Springfield,I watched her smash all the glass ashtrays in our dressing room.

So whoever you really are, you were on the same bill as Dusty Springfield?

[Laura]

Caro
It took a couple of episodes but my girls and I agree with you and the blue eyes. The role is a genuine tour de force for Hugh Laurie Has there ever been a more lovable and intelligent jerk on the screen. We never watched House before the election now it's nonstop House marathons on the USA network for us.

[Rick Ballard]

cc,

No Richardson, Holl[e]y or Valens - and not even a mention of Presley. Hmmph.

[clarice]

If I'm not mistaken,I think PUK was once even on the same bill with the Beatles.

[Pal2Pal (Sara)]

C'mon, PUK, fess up. Whisper it to me, I promise I won't tell anyone else. Cross my heart.

[Rocco]

Can I buy a vowel?

[DrJ]

Sara, the joke around the house now is that we both grew up with opera. In mine, it usually was Italian. In my beloved's, it was Grand Ole.

PUK do tell!

[Pal2Pal (Sara)]

DrJ: When I was in Jr. High and High School, my friends and I were all expected to attend the symphony with our parents. Good for us, or some such. So, the parents would all sit down in the orchestra seats and we'd all head for upper/upper balcony and make out.

And, centracal: My Mom's best friend bought tickets for the opera Aida, but because my Mom was pregnant with me and the due date was the same week, she bought the cheaper balcony seats, just in case. They were so high up, my Mother couldn't see over her pregnant belly and every time she leaned forward to try to see the stage, she would have to belch. So the story is that she waited for the kettledrums so she could use that to cover the sound of her belching. I was born later that night.

[Pal2Pal (Sara)]

Peter Asher of Peter & Gordon, "World Without Love"?

[HolmesFan]

Sara,

If you watch House with closed captions, they list the song and artist.

It is a great variety of music.

I really like the homages:

An opiate-loving music lover who lives at 221B and who's best friend is named Watilson.

What's not to like?

[DrJ]

Sara, that's a scream. I would never have thought of that (and in fact did not) but I was pretty into the whole music thing then. Concerts were just too important and serious. "Alles muss in ordnung sein" after all.

[glenda waggoner]

Well, I thought PUK rocked when I guessed he was a History/Military expert with a sharp wit and keen mind. And he strums, too?
What a cool place JOM is!
Thanks C.R. and Daddy! My grandson is nowhere near savant, but his abilities are much more than we realize, yet. I believe getting to know the world through art and music can only speed his adaption to a sometimes cruel place. Whatever it takes!

[Captain Hate]

Peter Asher of Peter & Gordon, "World Without Love"?

That might make me suicidal.

[Elliott]

JOM's British correspondent long ago earned my admiration not only for his legendary wit, but for his ardent patriotism.* To learn that he was worthy of renown in his chosen field is hardly a surprise.
_____________________
*I admit to bias as my grandfather regaled me with stories of his time in the RAF during my earliest years.

[Pal2Pal (Sara)]

Holmes Fan: Thanks I'll try that the next time the music starts. House is on right now, but so far no music.

[Captain Hate]

An odd girl Dusty Springfield,I watched her smash all the glass ashtrays in our dressing room.Being a convent girl set her on her downward path. A Great talent,but flawed

Ouch; ya see this is the difference between then and now, when you have Amy Winehouse, a fantastically talented singer who has a real feel for 60s type R&B and bad girl groups like the Shangri Las, engaging in disgusting self-destructive behavior in front of the leering media. I wouldn't have known that about Dusty and at the time certainly didn't need to.

Shelby Lynne (when I first heard that name I thought porn star) has done a good job of releasing songs in the "Dusty in Memphis" vein, which has provided a nice career boost for her.

[C.R.]

Glenda,

My 11 year old and, of course, very precious son is autistic. He is also nowhere near savant, but is very, very smart. It is fascinating to see him develop (when he's not impossibly aggravating). He is obsessed with the computer and Youtube in particular. He loves looking up all his favorite Disney videos in various languages...Spanish, French, Dutch, Swahili, Hebrew, etc...

[Pal2Pal (Sara)]

Peter Asher has quite a storied life as both performer and producer for some of the top names in the business. It hardly seems he'd have either the time or inclination to hang out with JOM or discuss American politics. But it would be cool.

[Elliott]

Hugh Laurie? The, uh, the writer?

[HolmesFan]

Elliott,

I've been re-reading the Dave Dawson/Freddy Farmer series with my 8-year-old.

It is great to read something which extols selflessness and courage, qualities present throughout RAF history.

[clarice]

I regret having said anything. If PUK wanted it known he'd have told us, as he doesn't, I won't.

It's just that he does know a lot about music and I hope he'll share it when he can.I also imagine he's got some interesting stories tucked away that we'd all find amusing.

OTOH he's always interesting and funny so it would be like lily gilding.

[C.R.]

Hugh Laurie...the actor and writer, but more importantly a member of Cambridge's rowing team.

[Elliott]

I think C.R. has prioritized it correctly.

HolmesFan,

Speaking of reading, my father read the Holmes stories to me when I was young. I was absolutely enchanted.

[C.R.]

Elliot,

Upon reflection, writing should have been after rowing but before acting.

[rhymin' simon]

Was waiting for the subway today and saw so many magazine covers of Obama that it got me thinking of Procol Harum's 'Whiter Shade of Pale.

[JM Hanes]

'Nevertheless, a lot of the influence of jazz on European musicians was through records...."

Interesting history, Appalled, thanks!

I'm going to save this entire, fascinating, thread, as I really don't know much about jazz, per se. I just pick up music from all over the place, so it was great fun to "listen in" tonight -- [I packed! I made it to New York!]. Music theory drove me nuts, but the Ovation Channel had a terrific three part series on rhythm, melody and harmony which I could have watched several times over. One rather intriguing sidebar was a little rhythm that turned out to be a recording of sap bubbling either up or down inside a tree trunk, although the rest of the show examined more traditional forms of movement.

[Dave]

I regret having said anything. If PUK wanted it known he'd have told us, as he doesn't, I won't.

And No one should keep offering guesses to his identity.

[PeterUK]

"Peter Asher of Peter & Gordon,"

"That might make me suicidal."

Me too since I used to fancy his sister.

[Captain Hate]

PUK, I was fairly positive when I wrote that that you weren't Peter Asher (primarily because of your knowledge about other genres of music which I *assumed* were beyond the range of interest of Asher, whom I considered, perhaps unfairly, somewhat of a wimpy musician; but also because of Clarice's Manchester clue) but your subsequent silence made me realize that I only had a surface knowledge of all this and was a little bit concerned that I may have committed a faux pas. *WHEW*

[sbw]

Look, this crowd is a graceful one.

If [name dropping] Karl Rove wants to visit JOM occasionally, we don't make a big thing about it.

Likewise, we like PUK for the constructive content he offers, not for the has been he once was.

[Porter]

PUK-

Seeing as how, comparatively speaking, I do not have opposable thumbs. I will refrain from commenting upon music other than my research into trumpeters is again an East Coast/West Coast dilemma. Currently it's Shorty Rogers vis a vis Clifford.

And I spoke too quickly in dismissing Parker as "hard bop", just my bias to the West Coast Cool. I actually prefer the bop big band things, because of the complexity of the arrangements, Mulligan, Thornhill, Kenton, and so on.

[Barney Frank]

It's just that he does know a lot about music and I hope he'll share it when he can.

clarice,
Since PUK also appreciates the wonders of Boss over unders, the Stradivariuses (Stradivaris?) of shotguns, he is apparently a bit of a Renaissance man.

[PeterUK]

Porter,
This will blow your socks off!

[Porter]

PUK-

I have no idea how, or why, but the sound is stripped off that file in my browser here. I love "Cherokee".

I'll have to try it later, probably tomorrow, if I go and play on the computer on my 20th anniversary, she'll skin me. And justifiably so.

[PeterUK]

Barney,
"he is apparently a bit of a Renaissance man."

Which bit is the problem.

[JM Hanes]

Looked up the 3-part Ovation series which was done by Sir George Martin (hard to believe he's in his 80's now!) and called "The Rhythm of Life." I remember Stewart Copeland (sp?) having some interesting things to say.

[Porter]

PUK-

Airegin. (LUN) What a line-up!

Thank you!

Now I have to go and spend some money.

I'll return the favor, somehow...

[Porter]

PUK-

Back up link (LUN) for Cherokee. Ahem, strong stuff. Now if I can dig up some Candolis...

[Captain Hate]

I have no idea how, or why, but the sound is stripped off that file in my browser here. I love "Cherokee".

Both sentences apply to me.

[JM Hanes]

I have a Civil War poem underway which includes juxtaposing Leonardo da Vinci and Richard III -- first Vitruvian Man (when symmetry was the ideal of Renaissance perfection) meets last Medieval Humpback (when deformity was viewed as symptomatic of spiritual imperfection) in the middle of an ice storm. I was intrigued by the ironic fact that they were both born in 1452.

[Porter]

PUK-

The Herd at the Hollywood Bowl. (LUN)

Candoli brothers in the back row, where they belong. Blowin' Up A Storm

[matt]

central;

I'm with you on the Opera....I couldn't stand it when I was young, except maybe Carmen's aria and Pagliacci. Around 15 years ago, I had a girlfriend who loved it and got me going. Lost the girlfriend, but ended up going fairly regularly.We had a good company locally, which closed just a few months ago..major donors didn't fulfill their committments. But we still have LA, which I would put up against most of the majors now.

As to shotguns, I am a confirmed Beretta man, although my favorite is a $150 Remington 870 I can hit just about anything with.

[PeterUK]

Captain,
Just click on the "Cherokee" video in the menu on the right.
This is an arrangement of Clifford Brown's original solo.The band is a who's who of LA jazz players.

[PeterUK]

JM Hanes,
Richard the Third was a victim of Tudor propaganda,research seems to indicate he wasn't a hunchback but had overdeveloped shoulders through the daily exercise of arms,especially with the battle axe.

[JM Hanes]

PUK:

Ah yes, and the Yorkists are still fighting that battle! Prince Charles too, IIRC. Kind of takes the "Man for All Seasons" sheen off Thomas More, doesn't it? In my own defense, I would cite the traditional Shakespearean precedent for using RIII symbolically. :-)

[clarice]

RichardIII..Wasn't he a Nixon ancestor?

[PeterUK]

JMH,
Old Will knew which side his bread was buttered,Elizabeth I was her father's daughter.In those days one went so far then one went to Tower Hill.A lowly playwright wouldn't even get the axe.
Me,I think Richie was framed.

[Appalled]

In case you want to know what Cherokee used to be before the boppers deconstructed it and put it back together again, the Charlie Barnet version is available on youtube. (Funny -- I've never heard Ray Noble doing the tune, and he wrote it.) Count Basie also had a pre-bop version of the tune that points the way. If you want a full dose of stylistic confusion, try to find Joe Marsala -- a dixielander -- doing the number with Diz in the mid-40s.

(On the Stash CD of Early Bird, Charlie Parker has a honey of a version, that is still esesntially swing.)

[PeterUK]

Clarice.

"RichardIII..Wasn't he a Nixon ancestor?"

I have a hunch you're right.

[PeterUK]

Yes "Cherokee" is a standard. Here the head is played straight them the sequence is used for improvisations. Basic jazz procedure.

[clarice]

JMH:"I was intrigued by the ironic fact that they were both born in 1452."

Odd, that's the year PUK and I were born, too.

[hit and run]

I think PUK is my favourite.

[clarice]

Just cause he's memorialized in the Liverpool cavern wall of fame, you dump ME for HIM, Hit..HUMPH and double HUMPH

[JM Hanes]

"RichardIII..Wasn't he a Nixon ancestor?"

Same posture.

Back in the 60's, my brother spent a summer as the midnight DJ on the local SC radio station. He rode around in a red MG and drove the girls crazy -- while I could barely get through an entire set of lyrics. When I'm by myself, I just sing in tongues. He called me when he turned 50 and said, "You can't guess what I got myself for my birthday!" He didn't have to tell me. It was even the same color.

[PeterUK]

1452 was a vintage year Christopher Columbus,Girolamo Savonarola were born also.

[PeterUK]

Fickle these celebrities Clarice,very fickle.

[centralcal]

No, no, Clarice, I am sure you are Hit's favorite; however, PUK is his favourite.

tomayto, tomahto.

[glasater]

Here is a very enjoyable piece of Duke Ellington at work.

Came across if when I was looking for an old swing band tune called "Smoke Rings" but could not find the one I heard performed by a small "big band" that came through our area many years ago:-)

[clarice]

Yes, PUK--anyone who was anyone was born in 1452.

[Appalled]

PUK:

What I want to see is Richard III playing Cherokee. (It's a little early for Baroque swing, but I'm sure Queen Bess suppressed all the music from that era...)

[JM Hanes]

PUK:

I decided trying to work Savonarola in too might be a little de trop, but I didn't realize Columbus was born at the same time as well. I'm suddenly having visions of two parallel poems unfolding in double-columned pages. Civil wars in dueling columns -- I like it!

[clarice]

I've always found Savanarola a fascinating character in a Fitzgerald sort of way.
If Richard III didn't make off with the Little Princes , who did?

[PeterUK]

"What I want to see is Richard III playing Cherokee."

Unfortunately you will have to wait for Columbus to discover America first.

[glenda waggoner]

C.R....a kindred spirit-we have had our 7yr old grandson since he was 20months, about a year after my husband retired at 54--but traveling the world seems menial compared to the challenges and wonders, full of such joy, that Colin has brought into our lives.
He and your son sound a lot alike. He loves watching his movies in French, Chinese and many times he clicks on ToysRUs Japan instead of USA. Today, he took an empty box from a Christmas delivery and made quite a nice house. Cut out the doors and windows(with my help on the cutting) even piled up plain white paper to make a snowy roof. He goes in and decorated the walls-comes out and goes to something else. We are blessed-his affectation is in communication. He repeats entire books but struggles in conversation. But he is tirelessly happy and curious. I'm sure you understand.

[PeterUK]

JMH,
You have enough there for a book,the movie and a TV series.

[PeterUK]

Clarice,
Follow the money. Henry Tudor had a very tenuous claim to the throne,well virtually nonexistent.Whoever wins,blames the loser.

[clarice]

Well, then it was all for the good. Eliz I was the greatest ruler in Western History. (I reserve Genghis Khan for the greatest of all time.)

[clarice]

Crime which is prosperous and lucky is called virtue.Seneca

[Pal2Pal (Sara)]

I will be sad to see this thread end, it has been so interesting.

[JM Hanes]

Clarice:

"I've always found Savanarola a fascinating character in a Fitzgerald sort of way."

You'd probably love A World Lit Only by Fire by Willaim Manchester as much as I did. You'll never think of the Middle Ages the same way again! On the Amazon page, click on "Search inside this book" and then hit the forward arrow till you get to page 5. Start half way down the page to see what Manchester means when he says "The Dark Ages were stark in every dimension." That's just the beginning of the extraordinary picture he paints. He's great on Savonarola.

Poison, a novel by Kathryn Harrision, is equally extraordinary. Per Amazon, she traces the parallel lives of Queen Maria Luisa and the daughter of a silk farmer in 17th century Spain during the Inquisition. Ignore the rest of Amazon's critique, because it's really a stunning piece of work, IMO.

[Rick Ballard]

"Eliz I was the greatest ruler in Western History."

Boy, I dunno about that one. I can understand her reluctance to marry, given her dad's luck and proclivities in the matter, but the point of having royals hanging around is continuity and a brief review of the balance of the 18th century suggests a somewhat lackluster performance in that regard. The crown became a sort of tennis ball, batted around by rather inexpert players until it was bagged by those nice Hanoverian folks.

[Rick Ballard]

17th century

[clarice]

There was no way to marry and rule..She needed to marry someone not English and that meant Catholic and that meant the Pope would have control over England.

Tough.
Had she been a man, you'd have a point, Rick.

Her actions and policies seemed prudent, modern and sensible and brought England to prominence.

[clarice]

Thanks, JMH--I'll check them out.

[JM Hanes]

PUK:

Yes, indeed! Which is why, like my epic Poseidonia, it will never be completely finished. Hopefully. Because it's the getting there that's what it's really all about, isn't it? I often think of Walt Whitman reworking "Leaves of Grass" over an entire lifetime. Naturally, I can't remember who once uttered the truest of truisms: "Works of art are never finished, only abandoned."

[glenda waggoner]

glaster..regarding DUKE--was there ever a more perfect union between he and ELLA? What an instrument!

[PeterUK]

JMH,
True artistry is knowing when to let go,put down the pen or brush and let your creation live.

[PeterUK]

It is worth noting that Elizabeth lived in fear for most of her early life,it was probably touch and go she survived her sister Mary.

[Captain Hate]

I reserve Genghis Khan for the greatest of all time.

No way: Constantine!!!

[JM Hanes]

I surmise that you're from the "Perfect is the enemy of good" school then? Alas, you're quite right, of course, about giving something life in its own right -- which is why I would never be able to do some of my favorite things professionally. I've also found that when something just isn't working, I generally have to give up the part, or the detail that I'm most attached to before things finally start to click!

[PeterUK]

"I surmise that you're from the "Perfect is the enemy of good" school then?"

More the "time is the enemy of perfect" school,time being of the essence in a temporal art.Sometime one just has to "right brain" it against the clock.No time to go through the permutations of possibilities.I suppose that is where training and practice come in.

[clarice]

Exactly,PUK--She could rule as a never married woman or sell England's sovereignty and her kingship away by marrying.And always in the wings were her enemies, not least of which was in Rome.

[clarice]

Capt..respect your ancestors--You do know Genghis is considered one of the ancestors of millions of humans living today. .http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9507E1D91E31F93BA35755C0A9629C8B63>Warlords is us

[Captain Hate]

Ahhhh, it's a family affair, I see....

I dunno, reading John Julius Norwich's Byzantium gave me an appreciation for Constantine shaking some life into the Roman Empire in an East meets West kind of way that Gibbon's pre-NPR aversion to religion failed to take into consideration.

[PeterUK]

Mary Tudor was, through her mother granddaughter of Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella of Castile.She married the man who was to become Phillip II of Spain.The vast treasure looted from the Amercas by the Spanish made Spain a formidable antagonist with strong claims to the throne of England.
Whilst Catholicism was a good pretext to invade England,it should be remembered that Elizabeth's protestantism was not far removed from Catholicism.In fact the High Anglican Church is fairly indistinguishable from Catholicism.

[Porter]

Boy, step away for a few hours...

I do not, ever, want to hear "Cherokee" on English horn, fife, and fiddle. Well, maybe once, but that's it.

This is quite a learnin' thread.

[glasater]

glenda--Isn't the Duke the best?:-)
I'm still looking for the elusive "Smoke Rings".

PUK In fact the High Anglican Church is fairly indistinguishable from Catholicism
Exactly so--except for the priests being able to marry.......

[clarice]

"it should be remembered that Elizabeth's protestantism was not far removed from Catholicism.In fact the High Anglican Church is fairly indistinguishable from Catholicism."

Certainly you knew I was talking politics, not religion, PUK.

British sovereignty under a maiden Queen or rule by Rome( then largely influenced by Spain and France).

[Captain Hate]

Exactly so--except for the priests being able to marry.......

Well and no pope

[PeterUK]

Duke Ellington was an American that Michelle could have been proud of,but seemingly not.

[Porter]

Glenda-

I counter your Duke with a Count. (LUN)

[Porter]

PUK-

Are we going for 400, or not?

[Captain Hate]

PUK, you provide the seed crystal for a good question: What musical groups will give command performances at the White House? Do we know anything about Zero's musical tastes? Is he frantically going through the Ken Burns Jazz collection to try to get some "cred"? Rap? Inquiring minds want to know.

[PeterUK]

Clarice ,
Yes,but the turmoil after the death of Henry VIII,succeeded by the sickly Edward and the fanatical Mary is not so well known,The rebellion against Mary nearly saw the end of Elisabeth.

Elisabeth clearly wanted to keep a lid on things.
"She believed sincerely in her own faith, but she also believed in religious toleration, and that Catholics and Protestants were both part of the same faith. "There is only one Christ, Jesus, one faith" she exclaimed later in her reign, "all else is a dispute over trifles." She also declared that she had "no desire to make windows into men's souls".
She was indeed a shrewed political operator.

[PeterUK]

Porter,
Let's go for the 400.

[PeterUK]

Captain,
A very good question.Like everything else nobody knows anything about Obama's musical tastes.
"Slippin' and a Slidin'"
"Fifty Ways to Leave Your Lover"
"The Impossible Dream"

[Captain Hate]

"Born to Run"
"Great Pretender"

[Captain Hate]

A few new user's comments on Pandora as I'm doing a shuffle-play of all my artist's stations:

1. I've yet to hear a Loren Connors song on my Loren Connors station.
2. I hear more Tim Berne on my Henry Threadgill station than HT, not that I'm complaining.
3. Maybe I'm getting old (!!) but I never thought I'd enjoy jazz guys doing Christmes songs.