Air Disaster Blogging

Let's have an open thread on the US Waterways disaster, and let me express my alarm that Al Qaeda has co-opted our geese.  Well, Canada's geese, actually.

Comments

[Bill in AZ]

God bless rescuers!

[matt]

who says there are no more miracles?!

God Bless them all, and the people who were on site to get them out of the elements.

[Barry Dauphin]

If Al Qaeda is responsible for the proliferation of Canadian Geese, they probably couldn't do a better job of pissing people off than that.

[clarice]

I'll drink to that.

[Captain Hate]

Canadian geese are great eating; dark meat that's very dry (not at all greasy like duck) and a nice taste. They are gorgeous birds, no matter how overpopulated they get (and leave putting greens looking like a pack of small dogs just went through).

[lightbefore]

Sea gull.

Waterboarding?

..'there are no more miracles...' '....Obama Will Deliver....' A Jane might say it's lucifer.

Maybe it's the new hostel?

lU@

[Captain Hate]

And kudos to the pilot for a skillful job of setting it down in a masterful manner.

[Danube of Thought]

I blame Bush.

[Danube of Thought]

And I question the timing, too.

[Ann]

I always laughed at the inflatable device directions given by flight attendants.

Yeah right, we are going to land on water. How stupid do you think I am........(don't answer that :))

[Jane]

Hey, has anyone heard from hooserhoops lately?

[cathyf]

My former boss was notoriously afraid to fly. (He would often go somewhere for the weekend, and he would take a 1/2 a valium a couple of hours before his flight. He would circle the office announcing, "I'm about to take my Happy Flight Pill. Here's your chance to ask for something outrageous!") About 20 years ago there was a rash of airline crashes with large numbers of survivors. When the plane at LaGuardia slid off the runway into LI Sound because they waited too long after de-icing to take off, there were a whole lot of typically New Yorker wry comments from the folks who both fished out and got fished out.

So my boss says at lunch the next day, "Do you notice that they always find someone to interview who says 'I had a premonition that the plane was going to crash'? Well big deal -- I always have a premonition that the plane is going to crash! If I ever die in a plane crash, you can be sure I had a premonition!!!"

[clarice]

Did you work for Feynman? It sounds like something he'd say about the preposterousness of premonitions.

[Captain Hate]

I used to be somewhat nervous about flying; then I went on a work trip with a coworker. When we got on the plane he asked for the window seat which I gladly gave him. He then made a comment about how riding on commercial flights was like riding on a bus compared to a small plane, which was closer to "real flying". For whatever reason that made an impact on me and I haven't been bothered ever since.

[centralcal]

DoT: In my own weird way, playing off of your post above, I thought it was fitting of God to give us a little anxiety attack, on the same day as George W. Bush says his goodbye to the nation.

He (W) shepherded us out of 9/11 and, today, a disaster in the making is nothing more than an accident of nature, rather than malevolence.

Thank you W, and thank you God for the timely reminder of how blessed we truly are.

[Mel]

clarice-

One of the best physics teachers, ever. No, unfortunately, I was not a student, just read everything he did. My physics advisor, yes, I am that kind of a geek, was a friend of Prof. Feynman.

He wrote the best dragonfly story.

[clarice]

He was a hell of a character.

[Mel]

Girl-

We gots ta talk.

When you return though.

[cathyf]

Naw, not Feynman, although as a demographer-turned-quant he is certainly a professional statistician. (Actually, I think that Feynman would be pretty contemptuous of the fine points of statistics. Most physicists think that anything past the mean/mode/median is worthless. Well maybe correlation coefficient -- as long as it's greater than .9)

Although I did work with someone who was a grad student at CalTech who was stumped on a homework problem. So he called Feynman at home, at 2am, to ask for help. Apparently Feynman was completely unruffle to be awoken by a student he didn't know calling to talk about physics. He gave a couple of hints to how to solve the problem, and then said, ok, here is another problem for you, and after Feynman describing the problem they hung up the phone.

Physicists are extraordinarily tolerant people. Good thing, or they'd really get on each other's nerves.

[boris]

My undergrad physics prof used to have Feynman parties for all us physics majors. One of my favorites Feynmanisms is "Cargo Cult Science".

[sylvia]

I can't believe we can go to the moon, but we can't figure out to stop a bird from bringing down a plane. Screens? Bird "windshield" wipers to bat them away? Blades to grind them up into burger? Gotta be something.

[sbw]

Physicist AND Samba band member.

[Mel]

sylvia-

Two feet = one bounty.

Leaves a carcass for dining.

2, 3 years tops, and they're gone.

But I'm old school when it comes to varmints.

[Mel]

cathyf-

Isn't it a matter of the application? I would think that those calculating the potentiality of certain particles would be hard pressed if not for certain branches of statistics.

But, this morning I did find things using opposable thumbs, like coffee, so I'm not challenged like those who use applied mathematics on a daily basis.

Are we talking about the same Richard Feynman, of Feynman diagrams, and the JPL? I have a size 12 mouth, so I just want to be sure.

[Terry Gain]

Don't blame the geese. They were just looking for a warm spot in Algore's frigid world.

[Ret. Marine]

Probably Marine not AirForce. Every F-4 pilot can handle commercial air anything.

[Algoretecks]

Crucial step > foot year.

Richard is a fine man, indeed, but most find it easier to use than to draw lines describing the infinite.

[Forelondonornot4tax]

London, man, they planned that global tax......

Reachingouttou~

[C.R.]

According to the NY Daily News, he was Air Force. LUN

"Sullenberger, a 57-year-old former Air Force fighter pilot and a 29-year veteran of US Airways, told the tower at LaGuardia Airport he hit a flock of geese and it knocked out both of his engines."

[Ann]

What are the chances that Chucky Schumer will be on all the "Good Morning Hope and Change Shows" blaming global WEATHER change on the accident. You know those birds should of been further south, I mean north, maybe west.

Absurd you say, well Dr. Phil and Sanya Gupta are on Larry King as airline experts right now.

[Flocofsegulls]

I ran so far way, couldn't get away.................

He's a happyberger now, he's done a miracle and can go to heaven..............

[Chris]

Today's crash seemed like a metaphorical bookend to the Bush presidency. 9-11 on one side, this the other. Everybody survived and all is well. Now if we could just wake up and find the banking system cured.

Happy day!

[Ann]

The Martians have landed and taken over our government:

The Spending Plan is Out

[le]

So, how much are jobs? It's allot of investing in Chicago buildings and CHA. Obama's work.

[Lesley]

Many years ago, my husband and I were having a wild game dinner for a number of his hunting buddies from around the country. One of the gentlemen was from Canada - he even wore his "formal" kilt to dinner that night. We were discussing water fowl at the table and I mentioned something about Canadian geese. The kilted fellow gave me a pained look and said, "My dear Lesley, I am a Canadian. The geese are Canadas."

So, I guess there is no such thing as a Canadian goose except, perhaps, something one might receive from a rather naughty Canadian.

[bunky]

The re-broadcast of O'Reilly just showed footage of the recue scene accompanied with fake splash sound affects and screaming. That was about 5:53 am EST. Some bored overnight tape operator making a prank?

[Lesley]

Another factoid about the Canada Goose: they mate for life. My husband said he couldn't shoot them because he found it too depressing - if you shot one, its mate would circle and circle, refusing to fly away, desperately honking and honking for its spouse. He would often say, "They're so damn loyal, better than people, really...."

[Captain Hate]

better than people, really...."

At least the nominees for Secretary of the Treasury and Attorney General.

[Cecil Turner]

According to the NY Daily News, he was Air Force.

As I told my wife yesterday: well, he's a Marine now.

[Rocco]

Good Morning

My wife and I have flown our youngest son to school and back several times on US Air. With pilots like that, we'll continue to fly US Air!

I once sat through a motivational class and the instructor told us to be like Canadian Geese. When one tires of taking the lead, falls back and another flies to the front and takes over...teamwork. Don't be like the Buffalo who would follow each other off the cliff. I'm still disgruntled!

[fdcol63]

Every time I fly and land ... safely ... I feel that I've cheated death yet again.

[Captain Hate]

What are the chances that Chucky Schumer will be on all the "Good Morning Hope and Change Shows" blaming global WEATHER change on the accident.

Mark Levin bet his producer that Schmucky would weasel some air time out of this. I just hope one of the passengers doesn't get trampled if they're standing between him and the camera.

[Mel]

Done.

[jean]

This is just too strange TMZ is saying Cindy McCain wanted to be on Dancing With The Stars.Sen McCain put a stop to it.

[Sue]

DFW radio is saying the pilot graduated from Denison High School, got his pilot's license when he was 14 and was a geek in school (a former classmate, friend, jokingly said that on air).

[Uncle BigBad]

Boris

"Cargo cult science." You are, of course, referring to global warming science. The idea that the release of CO2 raises temperature is perfectly analogous to New Guinea tribesmen who build fires in a configuration of runway lights in hopes of attracting cargo.

[MayBee]

I cannot read about it without feeling emotional. The way the passengers all helped each other get off the plane when it was filling with water.

The first people I thought about were those that were flying with lap-held infants. I'm glad to see the infant on board did just fine.

[MayBee]

This is really, really ot- but does anybody else suspect some donor of the Obamas will sneak the purebred Portuguese Water Dog or Labradoodle puppy they want into a DC shelter?

[Jane]

MayBee,

Absolutely not doubt about it.

So it's up to 8 degrees here. Anyone jealous?

[narciso]

"It's the revenge of the flying kittens (per PETA's new labeling rules.

[Jane]

I'd say that other than the passengers on that plane, Eric Holder has been the real beneficiary of that plane crash.

[Bill in AZ]

Chris:
Today's crash seemed like a metaphorical bookend to the Bush presidency. 9-11 on one side, this the other. Everybody survived and all is well. Now if we could just wake up and find the banking system cured.

...and like magic in this hopey changey world, we woke up to another $20B to BofA! Banking system cured!

ps - you're good at this - what are the lottery numbers for Saturday?

[Porchlight]

does anybody else suspect some donor of the Obamas will sneak the purebred Portuguese Water Dog or Labradoodle puppy they want into a DC shelter

MayBee, what an amusing thought. I have a friend who is a dog fanatic, a Republican voter, and a great internet detective who hangs out on dog rescue message boards. I'll put her on the scent.

[jean]

Byron York has something up at NRO about Geithner,accountants,and the IMF.Seems the IMF doesn't agree with Mr. Geithner

[PDinDetroit]

Jane - I am jealous as hell! It is still -4.4 degrees here (was -8.8 degrees at 6 am).

I killed a goose by accident one time while we were playing golf in a scramble. It was on a very short par 4 in which I hit a duck-hook into a willow tree which then ricocheted into a gaggle of geese (about 100). The golf ball hit one of them right behind the neck, between the wings breaking it's neck. The goose started flopping around,with some geese attacking it and others trying to help it back up. It died within a minute and the rest of the geese just stood there silently as if they were observing a moment of silence. Then, all at once, they turned and strode away from the goose.

That is one of the strangest things I have ever seen. I felt really bad about it too. When I told the pro shop what had happened, the golf course manager said "If I give you a dozen golf balls, could you do it again?"

[kim]

Steve McIntyre, at Climate Audit, has a very interesting posts adding Mann's correlation seeking to a discussion of the latest hot research paper, 'Voodoo Correlations in Social Neuroscience', which is worth a read. There's got to be an explanation for the disconnect in science.
=============================

[Extraneus]

I hit one once with a low 4-iron, direct hit to the body. It went down, fluttered around a little, and got right back up as if it was nothing. A human would have probably been hospitalized.

[PDinDetroit]

Mine was hit from a 1-iron and I usually hit my 1-iron about 250 yards. I hate to think what would happen if I were ever to hit a person dead on...

On Fox News, they are discussing about test procedures for airplane engines and how they are required to "test fire" a representative bird into the engine. What the heck would they use, a big slingshot?

Hell, those Canada Geese are well above 10 lbs and I am not sure how you would protect against that!

[kim]

'Representative bird'. There's got to be a joke in there somewhere.

"I'm here to represent myself, yup, yup."
============================

[Soylent Red]

Maybe, rather than firing a representative bird into a jet engine, we could fire Senator Byrd.

For test purposes. For the children.

[MayBee]

I'll put her on the scent.

Oh, do!

Frankly, I hope someone does. Why should Sasha and Malia be denied the puppy they want to avoid making some activists unhappy for 5 minutes?

That reminds me, though, we're about to put a tax avoider in at Treasury to keep Emily's list from being unhappy for 5 minutes (with Summers).

[Chris]

ps - you're good at this - what are the lottery numbers for Saturday?

Posted by: Bill in AZ | January 16, 2009 at 10:29 AM

Bill,
Check your email for the #s. It might be in the spam folder under the title "Kind sir, I am the great grand-nephew of Tunde Imboto, the deceased Nigerian Minister of Trade". All I need is a bank account # and I can forward the winning ticket to you.

[Porchlight]

MayBee,

My friend replied:

They’re going to have a tough time finding a Portuguese Water Dog in a shelter, so if that’s what they end up with then I might be suspicious. But Labradoodles are very overbred and overbought right now, so it would be pretty easy to find one in a shelter.

So watch out for Portuguese Water Dogs mysteriously showing up in DC shelters.

What I don't understand is, why look for a specific breed at all? I remember Obama once describing himself as a mutt. Not to sound like a PETA type, but why not go to the shelter and find a dog that seems nice and bring it home? Seems to me like the dog's individual character and personality are more important than the generic breed.

[MayBee]

Seems to me like the dog's individual character and personality are more important than the generic breed.

That's true, but dog breeds do have very specific intelligence, characteristics and personalities built into them. That's what breeding is all about. So it's less of a crap shoot.
I believe in shelter dogs, but a lot of them have been through trauma and need special handling. It's hard to know what their instincts are going to be. The Obamas don't seem to me to have a lot of time to put into dog training, and they have little girls.

[Rick Ballard]

Voodoo Correlations in Social Neuroscience

It's a very well written paper but it's a real slog if you (like me) do not have a very solid statistical foundation. The essence of the paper is a strong repudiation of the statistical methodology used by people in the "new" pseudo science field described as "Social Neuroscience".

It's a very dangerous field - the "social" side has you as the target of their endeavor - the 'rationalization' of whatever treatment 'science' decrees is the necessary for your 'scientifically proven' condition.

[sbw]

PD, since you asked...

I have seen the Chicken Gun at Arnold Air Force Base.

[Soylent Red]

Apparently Malia is allergic to dogs. Which leads me to the following questions...

1. How does a father promise something to a daughter that he knows will make her sick? If he didn't know she was allergic, how does a father get through 11 years of a child's life without knowing that?

2. Knowing that Malia was allergic, are the Obamas really going to get a dog? Or did he just tell that to the kids to shut them up? Or is this just a twisted manipulation of the public consciousness to convince us that they are real people, just like us?

Insofar as that we have established Zero as a shameless narcissist and profligate liar, you'll pardon me for assuming the worst in this case as well.

[Porchlight]

Oh yes, I do remember now reading that Malia is allergic so they're looking for a breed that doesn't shed much, or something.

While it's true that Barry and Michelle won't have much time for dog training, I feel quite certain that the First Canine will have its own trainer/handler/caretaker in the WH anyway. There is no other option since the girls are too young for most of the care and exercise the dog will need.

They are obviously not dog people to begin with or they'd have one already. (If Malia's allergy isn't a problem now, it shouldn't have been a problem in Chicago.) And they had that nice fenced-in unused Rezko yard, too - it would have been ideal for an urban dog.

[glasater]

Mine was hit from a 1-iron and I usually hit my 1-iron about 250 yards

PD--Sheesh!!
I thought only God and Nicklaus could hit a one iron:-)

[Pal2Pal (Sara)]

Captain Chesley B. “Sully” Sullenberger: He is a graduate of the Air Force Academy, flew USAF fighter jets, and has been a commercial pilot with US Airways since 1980 and he is a HERO.

Miracle on the Hudson with videos.

[PDinDetroit]

Glasater - My father (Golf Pro for 55 years) taught me many things, including how to hit a driver off the fairway. I believe that it was one of his favorite shots, actually.

You just don't try to hit a 1-Iron in cold weather. I made that mistake EXACTLY ONCE in College Golf and never again...

[PDinDetroit]

Obama is only getting a dog for the APPEARANCE of having a family like the rest of us.

God, how I hate posers who are like this! Kinda like a guy who will get a puppy just so he can pick-up a local hottie.

[sbw]

Sorry Sara... bad URL.

[MayBee]

There is no other option since the girls are too young for most of the care and exercise the dog will need.

That also shows the silliness of the breeds they've chosen. Labradoodles are busy dogs who are puppies for a long time. Portuguese water dogs need a lot of exercise.
Those little girls need a cuddly lap dog. Surely there won't be a lot of playing in the yard with the dog.

[bad]

PDinD

I think the Obamas didn't have a dog before out of respect for grandma who would have been stuck with the traing, feeding, walking and pooper scooping.

The White House has staff deal with all that.

[Bill in AZ]

"Chicken Gun" - my mechanical engineering roomate from college, who went on to work in turbine engine design, would refer to that as a "Linear Chicken Accelerator"

[Porchlight]

Obama is only getting a dog for the APPEARANCE of having a family like the rest of us.

That's my take, too.

Hey, speaking of First Pets, whatever happened to Socks the cat? Didn't the Clintons foist her onto Betty Currie? Betty must not be enjoying this dog discussion too much.

[Fithian]

MayBee:

I feel a little like the incarnation of Maureen Dowd, but I just have to say it: The dog business is a real window into the Obama psyche. It would be perfectly reasonable for PEBO to say that with the upheaval of multiple moves in January, they are putting off getting a dog till they've moved into the White House.

But nothing is that simple for Obama. Virtually every decision is examined for potential political advantage. The Obama's willingness to exploit their own children seems unprecedented to me. If Obama can get points for "saving" a dog from a shelter, he will, even if it means denying his girls the simple joy that greets the arrival of a puppy, along with the salutary experience of cuddling it, caring for it, keeping it safe, helping to train it -- a formative relationship which just can't be duplicated with an adult pet.

When my two children were young, we lost our dog, and for logistical reasons, kept putting off adding another to the mix. A year or so later, our son's playground fisticuffs stated looking like they might turn into outright bullying, and we thought that what he needed most was not discipline, but a way to develop his more tender sensibilities. We decided to get two puppies (avoiding competition for a new pet's affections), and the transformation was almost immediate. Sibling altercations were the first to disappear. They put their heads together to decide what kind of dogs they wanted. When our son's little puppy arrived, he turned into a virtual love bug at home, and never had another disturbing incident at school again.

Watching something like that take a back seat to symbolic necessities is discouraging on so many levels -- not the least of which is the suggestion that even the private dynamics of family life are the proper subject of politically correct examination.

[Pal2Pal (Sara)]

SBW: So sorry. Try again.

Miracle on the Hudson with videos

[Pal2Pal (Sara)]

I don't trust people who don't have pets. Can't help feeling that way. Unless they travel constantly and can't take care of one, then I see it as a type of character flaw and a sign of a selfish personality.

[bad]

I'm with you JMH. Kids are totally into the puppy, kitten thing. My teenagers are very nostalgic for the time when we were caring for 12 kittens and their stray mamas.

[bad]

The Obamas need to consider what they will do if an adopted stray has too many issues to bond with the family or is destructive and must leave them. Bad PR possibilities...

[Fithian]

Soylent:

On allergies: My sister has sufficient allergies to require medication when visiting people with cats, especially, and dogs. Such folks are not actually "allergic to dogs," they are allergic to the dander that animals with fur produce. She could actually wear ermine because it is so exquisitely processed that it's virtually allergen free.

We ended up getting a poodle, because unlike other dogs, poodles actually have hair, not fur and the associated dander. That's why poodles require clipping and trimming. They don't shed the way dogs with fur do; their hair just keeps growing.

[Porchlight]

but I just have to say it: The dog business is a real window into the Obama psyche.

I agree totally with this, JMH. I am hesitant to overanalyze anything that has to do with his family, but it fits in with absolutely everything we know about him. Obsessed with his image, cautious to a fault, unwilling to commit, yet all too eager to exploit what ought to be intimate and private relationships for political gain.

We've seen it over and over again.

And could there be any starker contrast with W? Would Bush dither over this sort of thing? Never. He'd get the dog of his choice (or Laura's choice or the twins' chokce). He'd let some reporters write a fluff piece if they insisted. And that would be the end of it. Most Americans would never even know there was a First Pet.

[Porchlight]

chokce=choice, sorry

[sylvia]

Okay here's another idea. Mini heat seeking missiles, sensor activated, that are shot out ahead of the plane and blow up the birds. Star Wars on birds.

[bad]

Mini heat seeking missiles, sensor activated, that are shot out ahead of the plane and blow up the birds.

I'll bet that does away with all that unnecessary housing and people around airports...

[Porchlight]

LOL bad

Missiles to be fired from commercial aircraft - what could go wrong?

[Ann]

Hi guys,

If I had to bet any money on it, they have already decided on the allergy free puppy they want.

Oprah, who loves dogs, will find just the right one to give the girls when they move in to the White House. And since she has Cocker Spaniels, it will probably be an allergy free Cocka Poo!

Hopefully named O Hussein Cocka Poo.

As far as the Humane Shelter, they will get a bailout.

[kim]

Arne Naess, the deep ecology guy who just died, wouldn't approve.
=========================================

[Sue]

I don't trust people who don't have pets.

Character flaw and selfish? A little over the top, Sara, IMO.

[Fithian]

Sara:

"I see it as a type of character flaw and a sign of a selfish personality."

Gosh, I see an opportunity for a whole new matrix of healthy, politically correct, decision making!

It's sadistic to keep a large dog in a city of course, which is a nice lose/lose proposition. In fact, it's cruel to keep Spaniels and other hunting/retreiving breeds in confined backyards, and letting your Golden Retreiver get fat from inexertion is a sure sign of a negligent personality disorder. I don't even want to think about what the folks who work night shifts are doing to man's best friends. Owning a pitbull, of course, already has an independent anti-social ranking, but would clearly represent a more serious deficit of character than owning no pet at all.

Fish are obviously just an excuse for avoiding the care and training that real pets require, but are worth mentioning because the choice of pets is surely a reflection of character too. If the mental health community could provide a hierarchical chart, it would be an enormous help in assessing other people's characters and the relative danger they pose to society and family life.

Let's not forget that pets have also been scientifically proven to have a statistically significant effect on the subsequent health of heart attack victims, so dog or cat ownership should be universally mandated by health insurers. Until that happens, any pet-free households should be regarded with suspicion and approached with caution.

[kim]

John Mortimer is dead, long live Horace Rumpole.
==============================

[sylvia]

"Missiles to be fired from commercial aircraft - what could go wrong?"

Well ya'll obviously missed the "mini" part. More like a missile fired firecracker, just enough to destroy a large goose, that explodes after a small distance, a few dozen feet maybe, breaking up harmlessly in air. Hey we studied that method for killer comets, why not killer birds? It would have to be fired at an angle though, so that the debris misses the plane.

[Sue]

It would have to be fired at an angle though, so that the debris misses the plane.

And the bird.

[Pal2Pal (Sara)]

Character flaw and selfish? A little over the top, Sara, IMO.

Perhaps. I said I couldn't help it. It is just how I feel after a lifetime. I'm one of those people who would rather spend my time with animals rather than people.

[kim]

The more I know of men, the better I like dogs.
==============================

[kim]

I thought that was Mae West, but I guess it is Gloria Allred.

I am more of a dog man than a cat man, and all cats can tell that at a glance, a sharp, vindictive, glance.

H/t J. Thurber.
=========================

[Sue]

I'm one of those people who would rather spend my time with animals rather than people.

And there are those who would call that a character flaw and selfish. Anyway. To each his own. I have a fish. Does that count? Well 3 fish, actually.

[JM Hanes]

"Well ya'll obviously missed the "mini" part"

Those little missiles that Israeli's use to kill little kids would probably be perfect.