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January 22, 2009

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MayBee

Vampires are hot hot hot in Hollywood. They are the new romantic heroes. I can see Boris starring in a movie like that...

Mike Huggins

Excuse me, JOM regulars, I've been away from reading the Plame/Libby blogging for awhile, but who is "Comey" and "Empty" - as long as it's not bad form to say (and if it is, I'll do my digging homework). Thanks!

Topsecretk9

I read somewhere and can't remember to find it, but the person said one of the Plame/Wilson gambit purposes was to generate a controversial pardon ala Clinton - it went something like the last minute Rich pardon was seen as such a huge, monumental blemish no matter how you cut it on the Clinton record and so an effort to get Bush to have to make a controversial pardon with all the legacy marring as Clinton so as to set a precedent therefore give Clinton rehabilitation was sought.

IIRC the target was Rove and not Libby.

It's an interesting idea.

Pofarmer

Comey would be James Comey.

Empty would be Emptywheel, which is a lefty blog that went on about plame.

Topsecretk9

"Comey" = James Comey --Deputy Attorney General (or something like it) at the time

Empty aka blogger Emptywheel aka Marcy Wheeler aka the left's resident Joe "low level" Wilson's shoe licker propaganda organ. Think...what Chris Matthews is to Obama, Mona to Gleen Greenwald.

Topsecretk9

Pofarmer gave you the nice version.

MayBee

how I love you, Tops.

Empty's at it again today with the 5th amendment thing.

Mike- Comey, as you may remember, is the guy that was to oversee the investigation once Ashcroft was made to recuse himself. In actuality, he did not oversee the direction of the investigation in any way, and was confident his friend Fitzgerald would be well monitored by press reports.

FWIW, Comey was also the US Attorney who oversaw the prosecution of Martha Stewart for lying to prosecutors about her non-insider trading.

He was also the guy that would not sign off an intelligence program that at the time was undergoing quarterly review. Ashcroft had an emergency surgery, Comey was acting AG for a day, and he refused to sign off on something Ashcroft had been approving. He rushed to the hospital to make sure Ashcroft would not approve the program when he heard other Cheney-supporting administration officials were going to visit the hospital to ask Ashcroft what was Comey's deal.

Mike Huggins

TS9 and PF, My mother thanks you, my father thanks you, my sister thanks you, and I assuredly thank you.
(The "condensed version")

Mike Huggins

...And Maybee!

narciso

I think everytime I've referenced Comey, I've thrown in the slayer of Martha Stewart, reference to show how skewed his judgement is;
he's also kind of the hero of Bamford's NSA tome; the Shadow Factory. I've mentioned that the night, he visited ashcroft was important, it was April 10, 2005, the day before the Madrid train bombings, or considering the time lag within hours of that attack

MayBee

Finally, while I'm on a roll about Comey, I'll add he was on Chuck Schumer's short list for Attorney General after Alberto Gonzales resigned.

This is the same Schumer who, as Dana Milbanks wrote, "pioneered the Democratic effort to have the leak investigated, answered the Republicans by standing arm-in-arm with Wilson in the Capitol's Mansfield Room.'

And led the fight against Gonzales for firing the firing of US Attorneys.

I am CERTAIN Comey did not conspire with Schumer to get the Attorney General position for himself. Why would you say that?

MayBee

I've mentioned that the night, he visited ashcroft was important, it was April 10, 2005, the day before the Madrid train bombings, or considering the time lag within hours of that attack

I never noticed that before, narciso. Fascinating.

narciso

It's kind of curious because Bamford, makes much of the fact that the NSA was
intercepting conversations to Arabia and Yemen, in the months before the attack, the messages were coded so no information could
really get through. But a wider contact list is forbidden.

Elliott

I never noticed that before, narciso. Fascinating.

I second that. I was skeptical at first because I knew the Madrid bombing was on March 11, but I looked it up and the hospital showdown was on March 10, 2004 (rather than in April of 2005).

MayBee

I think people forget about post-9/11- the Bali Bombings, Madrid, and the London train bombings. Thank God terrorist attacks like that have diminished. I certainly hope Obama is thinking about just why that may be.
Unless Obama is concerned only with our popularity, and not with our responsibilities.

Terry Gain

The decision not to pardon Libby is mind-boggling.

Within the last couple of weeks Bush said he put the interest of his country before the interest of his party when, instead of announcing the withdrawal of troops before the 2006 elections, he instead decided to proceed with a surge.

The statement was politically incoherent as a defeat in Iraq, at the hands of al Qaeda, would have destroyed the GOP's claim to superiority on matters of defense and security and would have consigned the party to the wilderness for at least the next 20 years.

The media and Democrats would have had a field day. "You started on an unnecessary war and now look at what's happened. We chased Al Qaeda out of the wasteland of Afghanistan only so that they could find a home in oil rich Iraq."

Is it possible that Bush was operating on the same cognitive level when he failed to pardon this "soldier" as when he made this absurd claim that he had any other political choice but to surge?

Topsecretk9

he did not oversee the direction of the investigation in any way, and was confident his friend Fitzgerald would be well monitored by press reports.

The same press reports that reported many falsehoods Fitzgerald did not correct and also once it was reported in the press Fitzgerlad's filing that accused the VP office of something that Fitzgerald had to correct as wrong on his part --once it was reported in the press

you see, Fitzgerald is so scrupulous and unclouded and unworthy of DOJ oversight, he would just ignore obvious prosecutorial misconduct OR just so clumsy he doesn't even know what he's doing -- like handing over confidential witness list to reporters in a case, or indicting a victim of a crime.

Topsecretk9

I never noticed that before, narciso. Fascinating.

I second that. I was skeptical at first because I knew the Madrid bombing was on March 11, but I looked it up and the hospital showdown was on March 10, 2004 (rather than in April of 2005).

Posted by: Elliott | January 23, 2009 at 01:18 AM

What did I miss here? Super please don't make me backtrack on this comment clusterfark...seriously though, I am so interested in this.

MayBee

The statement was politically incoherent as a defeat in Iraq, at the hands of al Qaeda, would have destroyed the GOP's claim to superiority on matters of defense and security and would have consigned the party to the wilderness for at least the next 20 years.

Do you think so? Leaving Cambodia to Pol Pot and Vietnam to murderers and oppressors didn't hurt either political party for the next 20 years.
Leaving those countries was what the press and political powers wanted, so we just didn't hear about the atrocities that followed.

MayBee

Tops- narciso pointed out that Comey's showdown in the hospital when he was trying to block the NSA's tracking program happened just hours before the Madrid train bombing.

RichatUF

TSK9-

The Ashcroft hospital drama happened on March 10, 2004. The Madrid Bombings happened on March 11, 2004.

Topsecretk9

Tops- narciso pointed out that Comey's showdown in the hospital when he was trying to block the NSA's tracking program happened just hours before the Madrid train bombing.

WOW. that's what Cryptic is always pinning on Valerie Plame. The Madrid Bombing. And then cryptic mentions the 10 or so Spainish intel officers killed/gunned down by Russians or Russian paid after her unathorized Vanity Fair article.

Get the feeling that Bush/Cheney's executive privilege claims might happen to protect more Dems or Dem operatives than actually Bush admin?

Elliott

From a couple pages ago:

I haven't heard of anyone who voted for McCain threatening to move
Where are we gonna go? To Canada, to escape preening socialist anti-Americanism seems? May as well go up there because I'm pissed Florida temps have dropped into the 50s.

Posted by: bgates | January 22, 2009 at 05:26 PM

At least explosive, socialist anti-American activities are viewed negatively. In the mid-90s, when our President claims to have been assuming Bill Ayers had been rehabilitated, Canada was already telling him to get lost.

Topsecretk9

The Ashcroft hospital drama happened on March 10, 2004. The Madrid Bombings happened on March 11, 2004

Gosh, I feel stoopid. I so hope Conyers gets his wish.

So, did Comey appoint Fitz as smokescreen or did he figure Fitz would pull a Ali Mohammed Sacramento dinner flub like cover-up?

MayBee

Thanks for finding that, Elliott. I knew Canada was very very choosy about who comes into their country. More choosy, apparently, than our President is about who he will allow to promote him politically. What could that tell us...?

Tops- I had never thought of that with Madrid & cryptic.

Topsecretk9

It's kind of curious because Bamford, makes much of the fact that the NSA was
intercepting conversations to Arabia and Yemen, in the months before the attack, the messages were coded so no information could
really get through. But a wider contact list is forbidden

F$%^

Hence Tice, like a little baby saying hello, they were listening to journalists!!! today? So as to Wilsonize the whole affair?

The unspoken known is that many in the press are CIA agents and assets.

Topsecretk9

Tops- I had never thought of that with Madrid & cryptic.

Either had I ---
sampling:

After the assassinations in Plame's Iraq - 'Vanity Fair' admission - the Madrid bombing followed and the US ally was on its way out of Iraq. The connection between the Basque terrorists responding to Al Qaeda in Iraq or 'Saddam's Loyalist Police' might be found in how a CIA operations officer works. Plame used persons backgrounds for her assignment in Iraq. Wilson's background was growing up in Spain with his Diplomat(operations officer) father. So, 'Basques' might be the answer following the Iraq police assassinations in Iraq. It's the same pattern, following an operations officers pattern, using the 'informants' past. Al Qaeda and the Iraq police were just following the same pattern and it worked. The Spanish government fell and pulled out of Iraq. The new President gets a gold medal from Congress given by the new member of the intelligence committee picked by Pelosi. It's payment for the intelligence work and 'sticking' with the US in spite of the Madrid bombing.

The new bombing is confusing because of the murder of Saddam. Spain seems to indicate - based on the pre trial intelligence and investigation of the Madrid bombing, followed by the assassination and arrests of Iraqi police when the investigation was over and went to trial - that it was Saddam loyalists in the Iraqi police that did the original assassinations of operations officers in Iraq, who probably had a history with Plame and Wilson, after the 'Vanity Fair' admission. In fact, it may have been a separate deal between Al in Iraq and the 'basques.' The connection in Wilson's background is a little too much to pass up, unless Al in Iraq simply outsourced the work or offered to do it themselves. It has become more common for groups like Hezbollah to farm out work to Tamil Tigers and Al to farm out work to older, domestic, terror networks like Basques with a political agenda that fits in with the Al agenda in Iraq-getting Spain out of the war.

The statement here may be one of support by the 'Basques' of Saddam and his 'loyalist police,'or simply Al in Iraq responding to Saddam's murder. The idea that it is domestic terrorists is a good solution for Al Qaeda and the CIA. The truce may have never been with the ETA or Basques, but Al in Iraq.

and

Larry and Jim already verified Plame as a CIA Operations Officer, DO, paramilitarily trained back to the 'farm' and their training together. So, the admission is not that important. What other countries need to know is was she working for the D.O. when she visited places like Montreal with Woolsey? These other countries could just as easily have been the US or Niger.

Plame has been 'blown' since Ames. She showed a strong interest in Ames(PC), how he was arrested, and PC. She used her position to get personnel, classified files, that were not supposed to exist to move into Irag and Iran with Wilson(PC). Yes, if the files are checked this can be verified. She compromised everyone who was involved with Ames and did her best to make sure foreign intelligence agencies knew and continues to do this by following the same pattern that was used to arrest Ames. The intelligence id act and the DIA 'informant' acts that have been changed because of her complaint.

'Rolling Plame's' cover has to do with the assassinations of the operations officers in Iraq and Madrid bombing. They are saying they are not responsible when Plame knew the answer to her 'Vanity Fair' article.

As far as Plame not being classified before 2003 or whatever, that has to be the case because Ames was arrested in 93 and she was actively pursing his arrest and how it was done to 95 and her move into Iraq and Iran based on 'investigating,' without approval, the Ames arrest.

Energy analysts Fitzmas:

Plame was an expert in energy companies. Like Bill's World Bank version of lending money to those to be payed back like a World Bank loan. OPEC is being sued. Kyoto affiliates are being sued. Bill wants to get foreign energy companies in debt to US banks and, if they don't pay or go along, they'll sue.

I think Hillary and Plame got along real well and this is all a 'Plame conspiracy' created by CIA energy analysts after they were done serving and had 'some wierd PSD things.'

Posted by: Roger | May 30, 2007 at 01:50 PM

Elliott

I was glad to find it, MayBee. I didn't know that he'd been refused entry for so long.

What could that tell us...?

Probably that Canada has been secretly run by a neoconservative cabal for the past 15 years. By the way, did you get the email I sent you a little while ago?

Elliott

secretly...cabal

I'm sending my resume to the Department of Redundancy Department.

Topsecretk9
'Rolling Plame's' cover has to do with the assassinations of the operations officers in Iraq and Madrid bombing. They are saying they are not responsible when Plame knew the answer to her 'Vanity Fair' article.

They are saying they are not responsible

Appointing Fitz allowed Comey et al to cover for their denial of the order and the result of denying that order - Madrid bombing.

Topsecretk9

OK sorry, I'm kinda trippin on it, but I never realized the night that Gonz and was it Andy Card? Rushed to hospital was the night before Madrid.


Comey played that like poor man was rushed upon by Bush wolves to usurp my authority...one wonders if Ashcroft was even capable of knowing what Comey did?

Another thing cryptic says is Ashcroft was the smartest guy to recuse and I always thought that meant in the moment...now I believe that it was a hindsight lucky

and I do believe the gift to Libby and Obama is held in hearings and a release of all documents...Fitz a hack and complicit? Obama gets to fire him...

MayBee

By the way, did you get the email I sent you a little while ago?

Oooh. Let me look. I don't always check the account I think you have.

Terry Gain

"The statement was politically incoherent as a defeat in Iraq, at the hands of al Qaeda, would have destroyed the GOP's claim to superiority on matters of defense and security and would have consigned the party to the wilderness for at least the next 20 years."

Do you think so? Leaving Cambodia to Pol Pot and Vietnam to murderers and oppressors didn't hurt either political party for the next 20 years.
Leaving those countries was what the press and political powers wanted, so we just didn't hear about the atrocities that followed.Posted by: MayBee | January 23, 2009 at 01:35 AM
------

Maybee

I sure do. Firstly, unlike al Qaeda, Pol Pot never declared war on or attacked the United States. The United States has been fighting al Qaeda in Iraq since 2005 or earlier. Victory in Iraq would have been a recruitment boon for al Qaeda and would make attacks on the United States more likely. Those attacks would have been blamed on Bush.

Secondly, the war in Vietnam was started by the media's party and lost because they defunded it, so the media were less likely to remind the public that it was a Democrat Party debacle.

narciso

Sadly, Terry, this will all end badly, speeding the withdrawal, with exacerbate
Iraq's tensions, and will bring AQ back for a next round. All the work of the surge, like the '72 effort' holding against N. Vietnam will have been for nought. He'll probably force out Odierno, and replace him with another safe Multinational Forces chief. Petraeus may be harder to replace, then again Afghanistan does make Iraq look like a cake walk. I fear the media malpractice, should probably be upgraded to contributary negligent homicide;for the consequences of their actions.

cathyf
...so an effort to get Bush to have to make a controversial pardon with all the legacy marring as Clinton so as to set a precedent therefore give Clinton rehabilitation was sought.
Nah, it's simpler than that. Clinton suborned perjury, so then it became necessary to show that Bush suborned perjury to rehabilitate Clinton. Ok, so it's always 24 business hours away from showing that Bush suborned Rove's perjury, but they have a conviction on Cheney suborning Libby's perjury, so that's good enough for them.
Barney Frank

I'm glad Canada has a policy of keeping not particularly competent marxist terrorists out.

Unfortunately they have a different policy regarding somewhat more capable islamic terrorists.

clarice

The Spanish story is interesting but I think wrong. There's evidence that there was a Spanish agent who turned coat and was supplying the Russians with info on the names and whereabout of Spanish intel agents in Iraq and got them killed. There is also some , not totally improbable, that he wanted to bring down the Aznar govt and that the present Zapatero govt of Spain knew about him for a long time and didn't act to haul him in.

BarbaraS

Don't forget that Fitzgerald manuvered Russert into a position of perjury re the FBI notes, his private grand jury appearance and the lies he told there. I have always felt Fitzgerald more or less forced Russert to commit perjury at the trial in order to seal Libby's fate. These charges should never have gone forward. They were much "he said/he said" statments. Fitzgerald has a reputation for charging people with nothing cases. Look at how he railroaded Conrad Black and forced waste on Black's assets. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if it is discovered that Fitzgerald gave Obama and his aides a pass in the Blago case. He picks and chooses his victims according to whim. And that wold certainly be an excellent way to ensure his continued employment in Chicago. Daley, after all, is his real target.

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Wilson/Plame