Can We Handle The Truth?

These headlines are only superficially in conflict - first, USA Today:

Poll: Most want inquiry into anti-terror tactics

And Gallup, describing on the same poll:

No Mandate for Criminal Probes of Bush Administration

The difference (obvi!) is that a significant portion of respondents favor a "truth commission" type probe operating without criminal penalties.  From USA Today:

Close to two-thirds of those surveyed said there should be investigations into allegations that the Bush team used torture to interrogate terrorism suspects and its program of wiretapping U.S. citizens without getting warrants. Almost four in 10 favor criminal investigations and about a quarter want investigations without criminal charges. One-third said they want nothing to be done.

I would be in the "about a quarter" favoring a non-criminal investigation.  First, a criminal probe will do a miserable job of getting at "the truth" - too many people were given legal cover by the Office of Legal Counsel guidance, too many people will plead the Fifth, and too much relevant information will be classified for trials to proceed.

Even a "truth commission" will have a problem dealing with classified information, although the 9/11 Commission was able to clear that hurdle.  From a bitter partisan perspective, a likely outcome of a truth commission is that Democrats will leak the Bush-bashing bits and the mitigating information will be kept classified.  That will not help to inform public debate, but it may help Dems raise money and win a few Congressional races, so I suppose it is all good for them.

Nick Kristof actually had a sensible suggestion recently:

The first step is to appoint a high-level commission — perhaps a McCain-Scowcroft Commission? — to investigate torture, secret detention and wiretapping during the Bush years, as well as to look ahead and offer recommendations for balancing national security and individual rights in the future.

This wouldn’t be a bipartisan commission, with Democrats and Republicans offsetting each other in seething distrust. Rather, it would be nonpartisan, dominated by military and security experts.

It could be co-chaired by Brent Scowcroft and John McCain, with its conclusions written by Philip Zelikow, a former aide to Condoleezza Rice who wrote the best-selling report of the 9/11 commission.

If the three most prominent members were all Republicans, no one on the right could denounce it as a witch hunt — and its criticisms would have far more credibility. The commission could be rounded out by former generals, top intelligence officials and outside experts without a strong partisan cast: people like Richard Haass, Anthony Zinni, Joseph Nye, James Dobbins and William Cohen.

I would like to think we can handle the truth.

[END OF THREAD]

Comments

[MayBee]

MayBee: how did Obama ridicule Schock?

He brought him to Peoria (Schock's district). At the Caterpillar plant speech, Obama made him stand up and said Schock didn't support this plan that was going to bring them jobs, and told the workers there to convince him to change his mind.

The results seem karmic.

[bad]

If they could stall long enough to make Pelosi delay her schedule....

[centralcal]

Maybee: thanks for that info. That's our inspiring, uplifting President O-punk-a.

Karmic, indeed!

[Rick Ballard]

"Wouldn't that just cause another mortgage market distortion."

Rich,

It sure would - and will. Cathyf made a nice reference to the CDS grenades laying in sweaty palms (with the pins out). A "class" (ARM or ALT-A) cramdown will result in a quick game of "here, catch" that would blow the Zombies out of existence - plus insurance companies, plus pension funds. I think the suspension of foreclosure action By ZombieGroup and Bank of ZombieAmerica could trigger it if it lasts more than a few days.

Don't worry, TurboTimmy's team of the finest credentialed financial morons ever assembled will find the answer. Possibly not soon enough but, hey, - a strong effort for the "common good" counts for something, doesn't it?

[Topsecretk9]

Bad

Captain Ed has a post up on the WAPO whipping the WH for their poor handling of Gregg - petty and unprofessional.

Now that their just flat out lying to the press it's gonna get good.

---

Soylent

I know. I did not remember this big rush they whined about either.

[centralcal]

Has anyone warned Rome that Nancy is coming?

[bad]

Soylent, I'm so glad everything worked out for you.

[DebinNC]

Is Catepillar unionized? ... Cause this could be taken as BO threatening Rep. Schock: LUN

Rep. Aaron Schock, a Republican who voted against the stimulus package and whose district includes Caterpillar headquarters, was seated in the audience.

“Congressman Schock, where is he?” Obama said, asking him to stand up.

“Aaron's still trying to make up his mind about our recovery package,” Obama said, drawing laugher from the workers and residents in the crowd. “We know that all of you are going to talk to him after our event, because he's a very talented young man. I've got great confidence in him to do the right thing for the people of Peoria.”

[Topsecretk9]

Obama made him stand up and said Schock didn't support this plan that was going to bring them jobs,

I'm sorry, but wasn't Joe the Plumber excoriated for having the audacity to call Obama out? Rude, wrong, liar? Does President mean you get to put people up for a public stoning?

[DebinNC]

Sorry, MayBee. I didn't see your answer above before posting.

[Topsecretk9]

The Post’s editorial board correctly notes that the Obama White House looked very poor in this instance. Gregg told them in advance that he would leave, and yet they got caught flat-footed at the announcement. Instead of presenting a calm and rational reaction, they looked petty and unprepared, while Obama gave a Snarker-in-Chief performance at a non-political event. Bad form, and once again, the Obama adminstration got exposed as amateurish and out of their depth.

--

And Obama on Schock

"all of you are going to talk to him"

Recall Sue's link to the 9-11 families and the Cole families -- all those people talked to Obama and he didn't listen.

[bad]

Politico forgot to mention that Owens says the stimulus bill "is a little light on the heavy construction."

[Soylent Red]

Does President mean you get to put people up for a public stoning?

The guy is an arrogant and pampered asshole who has never had anyone seriously disagree with him in his life. This is how he handles "debate".

I wouldn't be surprised if this was why he never tried cases as a lawyer. Couldn't handle the idea of having to make an argument based on a basis other than being the cool black kid.

[Soylent Red]

BTW...

From experience, Obamabots are roughly the same way. Can't make arguments other than that Obama is cool. Once pressed, they turn nasty and personal.

[bad]

Soylent, did you get a chance to read the article that Sue liked late last night? LUN

It's about Obama and his peeps not knowing that their detainee trial plans would give terrorists access to highly classified info.

[Jane]

Please please please come to the new thread. It's just too hard to get here.

[kim]

I love it; three weeks in and the WaPo calls him petty and unprofessional. Where were they when we needed them? That's not news, now.
==========================================

[Amused bystander]

Soylent: It is called "narcissistic rage".

Company of a feather...

I am beginning to think that half of the country is smack dab out of their minds.

[bad]

What do you get when you combine impeached former Illinois Democratic governor Rod Blagojevich, legendary K Street lobbying firm Cassidy & Associates, Senate appropriator Dick Durbin, D-IL, President Barack Obama, former Democratic House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt of Missouri, and the largest spending bill in the history of the planet?

You get the costliest earmark Washington has ever seen.

Obama proclaims his stimulus bill is earmark-free, but that claim is a bit Clintonian. Turns out, it depends on what the meaning of the word earmark is. What if a provision in the bill doesn’t name one specific project, but is written so narrowly that only one project is eligible?

That’s what Republican critics charge in the case of clean-coal funding in downstate Illinois. The Senate bill included a section dedicating $4.6 billion to “fossil energy research and development,” with a $2 billion line-item “for one or more near zero emissions powerplant(s).”

Read the whole thing. LUN

[Enlightened]

.

[Mary]

Soylent

Our youngest son has had his credit card stolen from a secure locker room twice. The first time someone put $1500 in dinner and bar bills on the account. The second time the thief put the wallet back in the wrong pocket and it was only used once at liquor store before we were able to put a hold on the card. That was a really stupid purchase because the liquor stores in Virginia are state operated and the transactions are on tape. This time the thief was caught and tried and convicted. We did not have to pay for any of the purchases.

[kim]

bad, carbon capture is horrendously expensive and utterly unnecessary. Can't they even look at the goddamned thermometers? We are cooling, folks, now how does the rest of that go?
===========================================

[Amused bystander]

Through the house. No GOP yeas; 7 Dem nays

[bad]

Kim. the technology is obsolete anyway. But cheer up, the money is going to Illinois so the odds it will be spent as intended are very slim.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Sue, "first time buyers" has been defined as not owning a house in the last three years for a long time. I was looking into it a couple years ago and wondered if the house my ex-wife and I owned made a difference.

Chaco:

I posted last week about my surprise to learn that even though I've owned 7 houses, I qualify as a 1st time buyer because every house I've owned in the past was a joint tenancy and none individually. The 3 year rule wasn't mentioned, but apparently that is also another loophole.

[PeterUK]

"bad, carbon capture is horrendously expensive and utterly unnecessary."

It will get cheaper as they make bigger nets.

[section9]

You'll notice that no Republicans voted for the Porkulus Plan today.

At least when Roosevelt rolled out the New Deal, there was emphasis on putting people to work immediately. Good God, are people going to be disappointed with this Christmas Tree! Stuff is delayed and there's nothing about shipbuilding or aircraft manufacturing.

Idiots. Well, at least Andrew Sullivan is happy. His Dear Leader won today, which is all that matters to him.