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February 12, 2009

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Sue

http://www.drudgereport.com/flashpr.htm>I'm late, I'm late, for a very important date

Rep. John Culberson, TX claims the "stimulus" bill must be urgently voted on today -- because Speaker Nancy Pelosi is leaving at 6:00 PM for an 8 day trip to Europe!
bad

I know he wasn't professor, but the average American that voted for him doesn't.

That's why I point out the difference for those who are just passing through.

And now I refer to myself as a "presidential scholar and education expert." For the chidren...

Old Lurker

Realty dawns, and the light is harsh.

I vote Sue's last night post as saying it best:

"Are you kidding me? This son of a bitch is going to take my tax dollars and give it to someone whose house is being foreclosed? After my husband and I scrimped, did without, drove the same damn cars, cut coupons, mowed our own yard, painted our own house, wore the same shoes, same clothes, to pay for a modest home we could afford and pay off before we were too old to enjoy it? So some f&*^ing idiot could use my tax dollars to buy a home that is probably nicer than mine? Son. Of. A. Bitch."

bad

Gee Sue, is Pelosi flying on a private jet while so many are out of work and losing their homes?

Insensitive and tone deaf.

Among other things...

bad

Amused, the bitching about republicans is a given.

Sue

OL,

I was so pissed last night. I'm resigned this morning. ::sigh::

Sue

bad,

I am having a hard time deciding who I hate more, Obama, Pelosi, Reid or the MSM. I leaning towards the MSM.

bad

How many children could have homes and medical insurance for the cost of one flight of Pelosi's luxury airliner?

DrJ

OT, but it is snowing here. Looks like we'll get an inch or so, and that is unusual. It does confuse the heck out of the cats.

Must be global warming.

Old Lurker

Don't resign, Sue. Stay very angry and spread it around. Clarice will supply the pitchforks.

narciso

You know it's distressing because I had one class of undergraduate con law, from a very liberal professor; who still insisted on reading the case law, fancy that. That's where my perspective on military tribunals
and civil rights law comes from, and one graduate course in international business law, and I have a better grasp on the material than he does. Maybe I should have gone to law school after all; couldn't have done worse.

RichatUF

Jane-

Who has standing to sue about the census?

This issue (sort-of) came up before in 1998 and it was the House of Representatives who sued among other parties. The court consolidated 3 or so cases. I dug up the case and linked it on an earlier thread, which was decided in early 1999 6-3 that the Census had to be a count not enHansenment. I looked at the abstract and didn't see much about control of the Census though.

jimmyk

I hope the Washington Times piece about O's ignorance of the law regarding terrorist detainees gets some play across the media world today.

And the odds of that happening are about as likely as Obama nominating me for Commerce.

Rick Ballard

Jimmyk,

Thank you for the link on the re-default rate. I was aware of the numbers but that site has a bunch of additional information on other financial crisis subjects. Well worth a bookmark.

Here's a nice piece on the complete failure of the 'decoupling' concept. Germany's economy is down at a 8.4% rate - which ties in nicely with Japan's 10% drop. The Chicoms keep lieing through their teeth and Bloomberg keeps printing the lies. Raising the barter rate from 7 chickens for a pig to 8 is an increase of 14% but is it "growth" or is it inflation?

Charlie (Colorado)

Sue, "first time buyers" has been defined as not owning a house in the last three years for a long time. I was looking into it a couple years ago and wondered if the house my ex-wife and I owned made a difference.

Old Lurker

Speaking of idiots.

We all know that interest rates on credit cards are super high because it is so easy for deadbeats to stiff the lenders. So the good guys have to pay for the cheats...and the BK code makes that all happen.

WSJ has a good article today connecting the dots on the soon-to-be-reality in which BK judges can impose new terms on mortgage lenders on existing mortgages owed by troubled borrowers including imposing lower interest rates, longer amortization periods, and watering down the lender's right to foreclose.

So how long will it take the mortgage market to adapt to the credit card market realities? Do they really think such mandates are free?

Jane

"junior moments".

I said that? Wow.

I love love love Nancy's reasoning. As always she is putting America first.

Rich,

Someone told me a congressperson from Mississippi has filed suit already.

Sue

Sue, "first time buyers" has been defined as not owning a house in the last three years for a long time. I was looking into it a couple years ago and wondered if the house my ex-wife and I owned made a difference.

I feel so much better, Charlie, knowing it has been defined like that for a long time. My point remains, we can all be virgins again, if we so desire.

kim

Now I'm pissed. I'm being deleted and edited over at Political Punch. matt has had an important link deleted.
========================================

bad

Tapper cracks me up. From his blog:

Please note: The President in January offered his definition of earmarks -- "the process by which individual members insert pet projects without review" -- and this bill does not appear to contain them under his definition.

The boy is a mighty smooth snarker.

bad

Which thread Kim?

Rick Ballard

OL,

I can't wait to see the entailment provisions on the '40 acres and a 3BR 2BA' giveaways. The purpose is to pen the serfs within the prog fiefs, so we can rest assured that the plan will involve the serf giving up profit on sale in order to "qualify". It may wind up being cheaper (in strict spending terms) to collar the serfs through giving them title than to lay out the Section 8 money to slumlords.

It must be tough being a Blue Prog Baron, deciding how many babies to kill on one hand and how many bastards to subsidize on the other. For the "common good, of course.

Pagar

Bad, I want to thank you for the thought last night. It made my day a little brighter.

Before this thread ends, I want to put my self on record as opposing any investigation in to the Bush Presidency. IMO, it will become a witch hunt against Republicans and will solve nothing.

If any money and time is spent investigating anything, I WANT IT SPENT ON INVESTIGATING THE OBAMA REGIME. I want to know how a person who cannot seem to produce an American birth Certificate can become President. How a person can write a paper on one of the centerpieces of his plans for the world in college and that paper be so well hidden that no one can find it.

Dan Riehl wrote October 15, 2008, on his Riehl World View blog:

This seems a might strange. Obama has sounded mostly silly for trying to use his student travels to Pakistan to speak to his alleged knowledge of foreign affairs. Yet he is said to have penned his senior thesis on Soviet Nuclear disarmament just a few years before the end of the Cold War thanks to Reagan. Why wouldn’t he want to share his great insights with the world?

Anyone want to guess just how far on the wrong side of History Obama was on that one? I’m thinking pretty far if he’s afraid of having it read.
He barely mentions Columbia, training ground for the elite, where he transferred in his junior year, majoring in political science and international relations and writing his thesis on Soviet nuclear disarmament.

MSNBHO reported July 24, 2008:

His former professor, Michael Baron, recalled in an interview with NBC News that Obama easily aced the year-long class. Baron described the paper as a “thesis” or “senior thesis” in several interviews, and said that Obama spent a year working on it. Baron recalls that the topic was nuclear negotiations with the Soviet Union.

In 1989, Brzezinski quit his job at Columbia University where he taught since 1960 to work on Ukraine’s independent status plan. This marks the beginning of his compromise to prevent the resurgence of Russia as a superpower.

Did you catch that? ZBig taught 1960 to 1989 at Columbia University. Barack Hussein Obama graduated from Columbia in 1983 with a degree in political science.

You can find all of this in the RBO post:

http://therealbarackobama.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/plouffe-makes-a-surprise-visit-to-azerbaijan-not-so-fast-take-a-closer-look/

bad

Is that Michelle's inauguration frock hanging on the wall behind O?

Old Lurker

Rick, yours is a more modern version of the old thought game we used to play.

Give the progs what they want. Put ALL the assets in a pile and pass them out absolutely equally to every citizen.

Come back in five years and see who has them. Odds are most will be owned by the folks who had them to start with.

Ooops. I forgot the new rules added during the campaign. We owe an "educational debt" to the disadvantaged among us...not their fault, it's ours.

Well no matter. Pass the assets out giving more to those owed such debts.

Results will be the same.

kim

It's the one on pork, bad. It's dismaying to find that Tapper's blog is not an honest forum. Here's one I posted 4 times.

Hickory dicker.
Thirty million dollars for
A Mighty sick Mouse.

After the third deletion I sensed that some idiot who didn't know about mice and clocks was threatened by 'dicker' so I wrote:

All around the web
Hickory dickory dock.
My best stuff gets junked.

To give them the cultural reference. I don't know if it never appeared or was deleted, but it ain't there now.

Another one deleted:

Oh, please stop the sight.
The flittering of raptors
And feeding of hogs.

I must be getting to someone over there.
===================================

Topsecretk9

"Senator Arlen Specter is one of only three Republicans to support the economic stimulus bill in Congress, and the latest Rasmussen Reports survey in Pennsylvania shows that his position is costing him support back home.

Just 31% of Keystone State voters say are more likely to vote for Specter because of his position on the stimulus package while 40% are less likely to do so."

bad

Interesting, Kim. "Dicker" must trigger a filter of some kind.

My reference to the Lincoln bedroom is still there.

kim

That last one about 'flittering of raptors' was the first comment on the thread. I was particularly proud of it.

Poof, down the memory hole. We got trouble folks, and it ain't the globe cooling. Trouble for how long, even kim doesn't know.
====================================

bad

Old Lurker, anyone who follows the rules and pays their own way will foot the bill for those who don't.

kim

I would like to think that, bad, but too much good stuff has been deleted for me to believe that. My consolation is that the knife got in among someone's ribs.
=======================

hit and run

Jimmyk:
And the odds of that happening are about as likely as Obama nominating me for Commerce.


Well, yeah ... I mean, you won't get a spot in the obama administration because you, I think it safe to assume, have actually, you know, paid all your taxes.

Jane, "junior moments" was http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/021540>your instalanche...

bad

Kim, maybe Maybee can shed some light.

Rocco

Good morning

There's something screwy about that Owens-Kirkpatrick-Fulford connection. In the SSCI, (page 41) Owens-Kirkpatrick states...

When the Iraq-Niger uranium reporting surfaced in early February, Ambassador Owens-Kirkpatrick decided to ask General Fulford to use the previously scheduled meeting to raise the uranium issue with Nigerien officials.

But...In an article by Spencer Ackerman, Fulford offers a different story.

But, as Fulford emphasizes the concern about uranium proliferation had nothing to do with Sadaam Hussein. Fulford's impromptu mission, first reported by Joshua Micah Marshall, was to inform President Tandja of Washington's concern that al Qaeda was seeking Nigerien yellowcake uranium.

The Ackerman article has been scubbed but I have a screenshot.

kim

Well it really irritates me. The blog has the appearance of being honest because there is a lot of diversity of opinion there and certainly some posts more offensive than mine. I despise selective editing unless it's to clean up a thread. Many's the time that selective editing has just made my argument look foolish.
================================

cathyf
So how long will it take the mortgage market to adapt to the credit card market realities? Do they really think such mandates are free?
You're still missing the most important aspect. Back up a bit here, to the whole discussion of mark-to-market accounting. The market value of a mortgage, or the value of holding any kind of loan for that matter, is fundamentally dependent upon the probability of default. If the probability of default is zero, the loan is worth the net present value of the stream of payments. If the probability of default is one, then the loan is worthless.

Any political decision which increases the probability of mortgage defaults will cause a massive revaluing of the US's entire MBO portfolio. If it's a significant enough lowering of value, then it will start triggering CDS's, which will start a cascade in banks being insolvent, and, *wham* party like it's 1937, gang.

It's really an uncanny parallel:

Deadbeat homeowners are not responsible enough with their finances to be able to benefit from the write-downs, etc., and end up getting foreclosed upon anyway.

Deadbeat congress & president are not responsible enough with their political pandering to be able to benefit from TARP, etc., and end up blowing up the global economy anyway.

kim

And I suspect they got it and sent it to Libya, Rocco. Or someone did.
==============================================

bad

Congressional Research Service defines "earmaks" as follows:

"Provisions associated with legislation (appropriations or general legislation) that specify certain congressional spending priorities or in revenue bills that apply to a very limited number of individuals or entities. Earmarks may appear in either the legislative text or report language (committee reports accompanying reported bills and joint explanatory statement accompanying a conference report)."

And then there is Obama's definition:

"the process by which individual members insert pet projects without review"

The CHANGE we've been waiting for is the definition of earmarks.

MayBee

Kim, maybe Maybee can shed some light.

Tapper actually got involved in this this summer, to some success. He said they have a company manage their comments section. He actually checked some of the comments I said had been deleted/edited, but it was pretty unsatisfying. He said two of my comments were there and I should check again. The problem was, 1 had been deleted 3 times before it was allowed (it was a post about his complete misreading of a Hitchens piece), and the other comment had been edited to remove a criticism about Hillary.

They don't allow much direct criticism of Tapper or ABC, they usually delete posts calling other commenters "idiots", and they always delete links going outside ABC.

Aside from that, I think it is up to the whims (and I suspect political leanings), of the clerk at the comment monitoring company. I swear during the campaign you could almost tell when the shift had changed there.

Old Lurker

Cathy I started to make that point first but decided to play off Sue's righteous anger she so wonderfully stated in such a kitchen table manner.

No, you are right of course that one reason (plain vanilla) mortgages got so cheap was just because their risk could be priced pretty accurately based on lots of data over many years. Add this new political wild card to that calculation and all bets are off.

Once again, the world our kids enjoy will not be much like the one we used to know.

Topsecretk9

The left has been going bonkers that Pete Hoekstra twittered his trip to Iraq, I see none of them are up in arms that Feinstein just crapped on Pakistan.

Pagar

Michelle Malkin reports there is language in the stimulus bill to take control of states away from governors who do not support the Rip Off of America.

Buried in the porkulus conference report is a provision specifically targeting governors who would exercise the choice to refuse stimulus money.

Soylent Red

Is that Michelle's frock...?

Rocco

That's what I think kim. Qaddafi was the first to visit Niger...in defiance of a UN ban.

And then Mainassara was murdered in a coup. Wilson's 1st trip to Niger was to restore democracy after that coup. He spoke with Ibrahim Mayaki on this trip also. Mayaki made an announcement on a local radio station that Mainassara's murder was an unfortunate accident. Of course, Mayaki also told Wilson that an Iraqi delegation insisted talking about uranium when Val sent him the 2nd time.

kim

Thanks, MayBee. That explains it. My clean stuff was just too strong for someone. What did I expect? It's MSM. The only honest forum I've found in MSM is Andy Revkin's DotEarth blog, and I've quit that since he started requiring registration.
===================================

bad

Minoity Whip's office via the corner

The Stimulus creates two boards to provide advice and oversight on this unprecedented expenditure of federal funds. It appears that Republicans could be entirely shut out of both these boards.

What a shock

Extraneus

If the probability of default is one, then the loan is worthless.

Is that true if the loan is secured by the underlying property?

I have a friend who used to offer home mortgages to people who couldn't get bank loans. He'd essentially buy the property himself, then turn around and charge the mortgagee a point or point and a half higher than what he borrowed the money for. Some deals he kept ownership of half the property, so half of their payments were considered rent for his half. Either way, every month, he'd collect their payments, hoping they'd default and he could forclose on them, because the property had appreciated.

I'm not sure I understood the whole thing, but isn't the value of the loan a function of the underlying value of the propery? Seems like defaults would be great for the banks during boom times.

bad

LOL Soylent. I love that skit. And that whole crew...

kim

Right, Rocco. Personally, I still believe Saddam sub-contracted his nuclear program to Libya and it was abandoned by Qaddafi after Saddam was deposed. What I don't understand is that when Qaddafi capitulated, surely we found out where his yellowcake came from. If it was Niger, why didn't Bush plaster that all over the news?
=========================================

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

If the probability of default is one, then the loan is worthless.

Only if the mortgage is upside down and any potential buyer of the mortgage believes it will remain upside down, correct?

Any political decision which increases the probability of mortgage defaults will cause a massive revaluing of the US's entire MBO portfolio.

Will the programs discussed increase the probability of default? Seems to me they will make default (as in complete default leading to foreclosure) less likely. A lender dosn't care where the money comes from, whether its from the mortgagee or Sue, just so long as he gets his money.
The BK provisions are more troubling than the mortgage assistance because they may increase defaults.
The mortgage assistance ideas are wrong on principle but I'm not sure they would tend to increase foreclosures.
I'm open to the possibility (probability?) that I'm full of horse s***.

clarice

"Who has standing to sue about the census?"
Jane, as I never wa a professor/instructor/place holder at the Univ of Chicago, I can say without embarassment that I don't know. It effects voters everywhere but that might be considered too attentuated an interest. Perhaps states whose federal payments depend on the bottom number have a specific enough interest to sue.

I believe Iowahawk (who has a PhD in quantitative science and taught it at a prestigious school and is a titan of industry whose screen name is an alias, and our own Rick Ballard have been screaming for a long time that there are lots and lots of imaginary people in the census reports.Guess why?

bad

Legal Insurrection has a round up of O's rhetorical nastiness. LUN

RichatUF

I would think that the foreclosure mitigation efforts will drive the costs of mortgages up and stall out any recovery in real estate prices because buyers can't get financing and the stack up of inventory.

Pagar

Here we go again!
From HotAir:

Feinstein blows our Pakistani cover

State Secrets Indeed.

Topsecretk9

OMG!!!

Topsecretk9

I'm naive, but how does funding a ton of Inspector Generals stimulate the economy?

Department of Agriculture Office of Inspector General $22,500,000
Department of Commerce Office of Inspector General $10,000,000
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration - Office of Inspector General $6,000,000
Department of Justice - Office of Inspector General $2,000,000
NASA Office of Inspector General $2,000,000
Defense Department - Office of Inspector General $15,000,000
Department of Energy - Office of Inspector General $15,000,000
Treasury inspector general for tax administration $7,000,000
General Services Administration - Office of Inspector General $7,000,000
Recovery Act Accountability and Transparency Board $84,000,000
Small Business Administration - Office of Inspector General $10,000,000
Department of Homeland Security - Office of Inspector General $5,000,000
Bureau of Indian Affairs - Office of Inspector General $15,000,000
Environmental Protection Agency - Office of Inspector General $20,000,000
Office of inspector general of the Department of Labor $6,000,000
Department of Health and Human Services inspector general's office related to the Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology $17,000,000
Department of Education office of the inspector general $14,000,000
Office of the inspector general for the Corporation for National and Community Service $1,000,000
Office of inspector general for the Social Security Administration $2,000,000
Government Accountability Office salaries and expenses $25,000,000
Veterans Affairs - Office of Inspector General $1,000,000
State Department Office of Inspector General $2,000,000
Office of the inspector general for the Department of Transportation $20,000,000
Office of the inspector general for the Department of Housing and Urban Development $15,000,000

bad

PorkBILL info from readthestimulus.org:

The total size of the four major files is over 100MB, and consists of 1419 pages. Three of the four files are huge "scanned" PDFs, meaning they were created by printing the original document and then scanning it in again --- and therefore contain no real "text" that can be easily searched.

Transparency you can believe in.... LUN

Old Lurker

Back in the old days, a mortgage in default resulted in the lender getting the property pretty quickly and could then sell the empty house on the courthouse steps to the highest bidder. Since I'm talking about the old days, the loans might have been but 75-80% of the "real" value, so often the lender would sell the house for the loan amount. Or else not for much less than the loan amount.

So under those rules, the mortgage would always have a positive value even if the risk of default was high, since the real estate would always be worth something. (unless that leaking underground fuel tank or all that asbestos is discovered...or unless the legal costs exceed the auction value of the property).

That system worked because the lender could get the keys quickly and before the property could be destroyed by squatters.

And that's the problem with all these prog rules: lenders will no longer be able to get hands on their security while it is worth anything, and without excessive transaction (legal) costs. So yes, the lender has to now calculate the chance of zero return on some number of loans into the return they need for the basket. Or else they will put their capital elsewhere.

And they should.

Topsecretk9

and notice the IG that got the least amount?

Veterans Affairs - Office of Inspector General $1,000,000

a measly million while the IG

Department of Health and Human Services inspector general's office related to the Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology $17,000,000

and

Bureau of Indian Affairs - Office of Inspector General $15,000,000

this is an insult to the people who sacrifice their lives for us.

Rick Ballard

Rich,

It won't run rates up if the '40 acre and a 3BR 2BA' mortgages are backed by Uncle Sugar's 'no way you can lose' guarantees. I don't think it's going to work too well. It will be set up to prevent Escape From Blue Hell continuing to empty the Rust Belt but I see no reason for entrepreneurs or large manufacturer's to expose themselves to Blue Hell public policy. Crap schools turning out over indoctrinated socialist dolts aren't employer magnets.

Pagar

Thanks Bad and TS9, Great links!

From the LUN Bad posted, words from Rep Pelosi:

We wanted to take all the time that was necessary to make sure it was right."

The Greatest Lie ever told.

bad

From yesterday's Congressional Record, Page H1096:

Mr. LEWIS of California moves to instruct the managers on the part of the House that they shall not record their approval of the final conference agreement (as such term is used in clause 12(a)(4) of rule XXII of the Rules of the House of Representatives) unless the text of such agreement has been available to the managers in an electronic, searchable, and downloadable form for at least 48 hours prior to the time described in such clause.

I guess we'll find out if Congress can follow the rules. They have a time and searchability issue right now.

bad

You're welcome Pagar.

bad

Beside the plane crash crowding out all other news, how do you suppose Rahm is taking advantage of this crisis...hmmm...

kim

I think I read, bad, where there is a way they can wriggle around that 48 hour requirement.
==============================================

bad

Tops, thanks for that link to the lack of stimulus.

The language is what we have to fear according to Gingrich, in addition to the enormous amounts of money to grow government.

kim

I think Rahm is still hearing Fitzsteps.
=======================================

bad

Malkin says the vote is expected at 1:30PM Eastern time.

Pray Spector, Collins, Snow and Nelson, grow a pair.

This BILL is a far cry from what they voted for.

cathyf
but isn't the value of the loan a function of the underlying value of the propery?
Well, part of the problem with home mortgages in the current environment is that the residual after a foreclosure is pretty close to zero. The house sits vacant, thieves come in and strip out anything which can be moved (i.e. they smash up the walls so that they can steal the electrical wire and sell the copper.) The foreclosure moves through the courts at a glacial pace, then afterwards there are the costs of liquidating the property, which by then is worth the price of the empty lot minus the demolition costs, and the broker/auction company essentially gets most if not all of the money.
The mortgage assistance ideas are wrong on principle but I'm not sure they would tend to increase foreclosures.
The problem is not so much the foreclosures, but whether the mortgage assistance triggers a "credit event" which triggers the CDSes. It's not actually true that the "lender doesn't care where the money comes from" anymore because of the CDSes. In the old days, a property owner who was faced with selling in a declining market would call up the bank and play "Let's Make A Deal." Especially if they had an offer in hand at what appeared to be a reasonable market price. It would be much better for the lender to take the market value of the property when the only other choice was to foreclose and get the market value of the property minus the foreclosure costs and the brokerage costs of selling. But in the world with CDSes this could trigger a credit event that would kill off the bank.

Some of this is the lawyers' fault because of the way that the CDS contracts are written. I first came across this problem when trying to help someone who had bought a house for $100,000 and then been forced to move (husband got laid off; found new job 500 miles away). In the intervening couple of years, the home value in the neighborhood had declined so that the house was worth maybe $60-$65K. They had renters who made an offer of $65K, and they went to the lender so see if they would take that as payment in full for the mortgage. The bank refused because they had an FHA loan. It was in the bank's interest to foreclose and get virtually no money out of the liquidation of the property because the FHA was going to make them whole up to the $78K loan balance.

kim

Again, is there going to be a need for cloture, or 60 votes? Isn't a simple majority going to do it?
========================================

narciso

No wonder, they were trying to try to hide the spending patterns; IG's ferret out previous programs, leaks details of
classified programs (Mary McCarthy, anyone)
serve as source for news stories, subpoenas,
indictments, prosecutions, while ignoring the other programs, outlays for questionable
programs. It's Government by Star Chamber.

DebinNC

I don't know, kim. If a simple majority would do though, why do I keep reading that Reid is furiously trying to muster enough votes so the 3 Amigos votes' won't make or break passage?

centralcal

while we wait for Susan, Olympia and Arlen to sell us into perpetual poverty, thought some of you might be interested in this.

Over at Puffington Host they have a Michelle Obama slideshow that is ostensibly about how her hairstyles have changed through the years. However, someone there must really, really dislike her a lot, because not one of the photos is flattering.

You have to see to believe: Mobama

kim

Can the Republicans filibuster?
===============================

Stephanie

Aieee.. central... are you the majority stockholder in EyeBleach?

centralcal

Nah. Maybe I should invest in it, Stephanie.
Some of those photos toward the end make her look really, really EVIL. Very scary.

DebinNC

"The budget resolution is immune from filibustering..."

but that's from yesterday's NYT, so take it for what it's worth, kim.

hit and run

Yes they can, Kim.

But for how long even hit and run doesn't know.

kim

I hope so, h&r; I'd read that budget bills can't be filibustered, but for some reason this bill doesn't fit the normal definition of a budget bill so it can be filibustered. That may be why Reid is so worked up. I'm optimistic that the Tres Amigos will recant. This stuff is sick, and the urgency dismaying, nay, nauseating.
=====================

Pagar

The paragraph I would like to see in the stimulas bill.

No person who has contributed, in any way, in writing, voting for etc--the generational theft bill--shall be able to draw any salary, grant, or benefit in any way from the American government, effective the date this bill is signed into law.

If you don't think that will work, here is a site that may give you some other ideas on stopping the stimulus bill.

http://www.http://www.stewardofprosperity.org/ href="http://www.stewardofprosperity.org/">stewardofprosperity.org/

The founder is said to have some qualifications that most of us don't seem to have--He actually donated to Obama. But has come to see the light.

RichatUF

Rick-

In re: 12:16

Wouldn't that just cause another mortgage market distortion. It might hold the rates down for the "40 acers and 3BR 2BA" in the prog feifs, but the banks would have to charge more for the uncertainty on their their own mortgages. That would seem like a good arbitrage to exploit.

I don't know, I'm getting confused and pissed off and the jackasses running DC are throwing another trillion down a hole. It seems that the way to have done this thing would be fo the FDIC (ie a "bad bank") to close the large banks and let the community banks and regional banks to pick through the rubble. I'd think that PE and hedge funds could be useful too by maybe letting them buy up re assets and converting a portion of the fund to a reit. It's just that this looking up, to a higher level of organization which doesn't really exist, is just making the problem worse, and among the Treasury authority grated through TARP, the FDIC, and the Fed Geithner should have had a plan in hand already (without that bullsh*t public-private garbage). Just thinking out loud...

hit and run

Interesting, Deb. We discussed filibiatering a confernce report earlier this week and wikipedia had an article saying you could.

Which is more reliable, wiki or the NYT? Tough call!

kim

I'm confident that Gregg has some influence with Snowe and Collins. Why I'm confident, even kim doesn't know. Something about hope springing eternally in the human beast.
====================================

bad

Personally, I'm in favor of a "bad" bank.

Send deposits to badneedsanewpairofshoes@ohyeah.com

I'll see your banking needs are met...

bad

Well, Kim, Gregg is pretty cute.

bad

I'm in favor of the entire BILL being read and all congresscritters must listen with a quiz to follow.

Topsecretk9

“The debate is now coming to an end,” President Barack Obama said Thursday at a Caterpillar plant in East Peoria, Ill. “It is time for Congress to act. When they finally pass our plan, I believe it will be a major step forward on our path to economic recovery.”

----

what debate?


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U.S. Rep. Emanuel Cleaver, a Missouri Democrat. “Regardless of party, we all cast our votes with one hand and crossed our fingers with the other.”

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Great.

DebinNC

I think Michelle is doing the best with what she has to work with. The result imo is an average looking professional woman. Nothing special. What's galling is the campaign to make us believe she's the next Jackie O, which is laughable. The next Roslynn Carter? Absolutely.

Speaking of Carter, doesn't Jimmy's high school pic look exactly like you'd imagine he would? LUN

MayBee

Politico Reports (Jane will be interested in this):

ON THE FLOOR: Aaron Schock, the congressman from Peoria who joined Obama on his Caterpillar visit yesterday[and who Obama held up for ridicule], attacks the President's stimulus. "I found it very interesting that after the President finished his speech...not one employee at that facility approached me and asked to vote for this bill." Says he has received 1,000 phone calls and emails from Caterpillar employees asking him to vote no. (1:11 p.m.)

centralcal

Yep, DebinNC!

Cheney was hot!

Porchlight

Cheney was hot!

Biden was pretty cute, too. And McCain, and Huckabee! Thanks for the great link.

MayBee

Aaron Schock (mentioned above) was just on Andrea Mitchell. He is 27 years old, and was very impressive.


(he was not physically on Andrea Mitchell)

MayBee

Aaron Schock also said it was a shame Obama misunderstood Owens (Caterpillar CEO) support of a stimulus to mean he supported this stimulus.
Schock pointed out it would take the economy actually turning around to get Caterpillar to hire again, not just the passage of a bill.

bad

(he was not physically on Andrea Mitchell)

She can always pretend.

centralcal

MayBee: how did Obama ridicule Schock?

Topsecretk9

hmm...

A list of contents of the "Patriot Act", together with the final amendments to the Act, can be found at Final text of USA anti-terrorism bill, on Don Mc Cullagh's http://politechbot.com. These amendments alone run to 31 A4 printout pages; the whole Act is over 300 pages long. Napoleon remarked that a constitution should be short and obscure; the "Patriot Act" is long and obscure, if only by its very length.

and

The “Patriot Act” was rushed through Congress in just six weeks. It was given a helping hand by the anthrax attacks. Following hard on the heels of the September atrocities, these attacks “brushed up” the horror and were neatly dovetailed with the stages in the passage of the bill.

interesting. I keep seeing references to the rush of the war on terror - 300 pages and 6 weeks.

1000 plus pages in 10 hours

Soylent Red

OTFYI...

My credit card got counterfeited and used today. Bank flagged it immediately and all's well that ends well. But, for those of you who have Lifelock, they don't have the ability to monitor individual credit accounts. So they were completely unaware until I called them and told them. Good news is that they would have paid up had my bank gotten difficult.

Moral to the story: Make sure your bank has good credit fraud protection and service.

bad

Gibbs trys to cover Obama's butt. Says the President and the Ceo of Catepillar said the same time.

Tapper responded with disbelief and Gibbs is POd.

Soylent Red

TSK9:

Regarding "rush to war" in Iraq, the "rush" took nearly six months, counting all of the UN shenanigans.

jimmyk

And that's the problem with all these prog rules: lenders will no longer be able to get hands on their security while it is worth anything, and without excessive transaction (legal) costs.

That's right, and in addition, it's going to delay the ultimate resolution of uncertainty about the value of what's on bank balance sheets. Many of these borrowers will default anyway, but this will just prolong the agony. In the meantime we will have both zombie households and zombie banks.

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Wilson/Plame