Polling The Stimulus

Zogby International grabs headlines with their "Ask a loaded question..." poll showing the public is opposed to the stimulus bill.

CNN recently reported that "A slight majority, 54 percent, favors the bill; 45 percent are opposed" but I can't find their actual questions.

Last week CBS found that the public favored the bill even though they believed tax cuts would be more effective than increased government spending in getting this country going again.

Gallup also found majority support but did not report polling results on tax cuts.

[END OF THREAD]

Comments

[Jane]

Delay, delay, delay. It's a fair assumption that the more people hear about this bill, the more will oppose. Then again, the dumbing down of America is almost complete, so maybe I set my expectations too high.

I haven't read what has gone on here since yesterday yet, but I know of 2 very important birthdays today.

Care to guess?

[kim]

How was your session with the budding Republican?
========================================

[peter]

Then again, the dumbing down of America is almost complete

Looking at the videos of the Fort Myers town hall meeting, I'd have to say you are right!

[Jane]

Gee, I went to bed too early - Clarice had it all arranged! (I should have guessed)

HAPPY BIRTHDAY DOT! WE love you. We really really love you!

You share your birthday with a person who is almost as cool as you. Aquarius right?

Aquarius: Jan. 20 - Feb. 18 The sign of the Water Carrier is traditionally friendly, humanitarian, honest, loyal and original.

[Porchlight]

Happy Birthday, DoT! So glad you are back with us - there was no commentary more missed in October and November. Enjoy!

[Pagar]

Happy Birthday, DOT! Thanks for all your posts that help make this the most enjoyable blog to read.

[Alan]

People are for the stimulus because they are desperate. They want to believe that it will work and prosperity is just round the corner thanks to the stimulus package.

[Pofarmer]

People are for the stimulus because they are desperate.

Yeah, but why are people "desperate"?

[centralcal]

Have a very happy birthday, DOT! Porch is absolutely right about how much we missed you last Fall.

Jane, who is the other birthday? (You said there were two.)

[centralcal]

People are for the stimulus . . .

Exactly! People like Henrietta and Julio, of which there are already too many. And if Obama and his evil puppet masters have their way, there will be many, many more of them.

[Jane]

who is the other birthday?

Here is a hint:

Narciso should know.

[Pofarmer]

Exactly! People like Henrietta and Julio,

Ya know,k Henrietta is ALREADY on public assisstance, but is just sure that the answers to all her problems is MORE public assistance. I'm not sure there's a cure for that kind of stupid. Well, maybe govt run health care.

[centralcal]

A few days ago I mentioned that Politico was requesting tax info from all Senators.

They have the responses posted now. You absolutely have to read Sen. Coburn's response. It is a hoot!

LUN (scroll down, he's last on page 2)

[centralcal]

And, a very happy birthday to Narciso, too!

[Sue]

Here is a hint:

Narciso should know.

And it isn't him.

[bad]

Thanks CC!! That was fun.

[Sue]

c-cal,

LOL. Coburn is a hoot.

[centralcal]

uh oh - NOT Narciso at all!!! Happy Birthday Sarah Palin.

[narciso]

I'm really that predictable aren't I, Jane, yes I know, had a problem logging in because the internet provider, which shall not be named, disconnected me because of miscommunication. Why do I feel, like this is the future of the Daschlized health care system. My defense of her has gone far and wide, and now well a little dissapointment; although I understand why.

So Zogby runs a poll, now when it's too late to really do anything really effective.
CBS of course, oversampled like in that push poll, last fall directly targeted at
the most effective candidate. Maybe it can be derailed in conference, or at least substantially modified, one can hope, but that Ft. Myers rally, well it's a little to close to historical footage in my native land, for confort.

[clarice]

Ask me no questions....

[bio mom]

Stuck secretly into the stimulus bill (from NRO):

"For starters, the bill would create a 15-member federal health board, composed entirely of federal employees appointed by the president, charged with running “comparative effectiveness” research to assess which drugs and other medical treatments are most effective. The board’s decisions would determine what medical treatments the federal government would or would not pay for. The treatments some patients desperately need might not be on the list. House Appropriations Chairman David Obey (D., Wis.) explained that drugs and treatments “that are found to be less effective and in some cases, more expensive, will no longer be prescribed.” "

I would like to remind everybody that this sort of thing bombed terribly in relation to the estrogen use issue. For years, women were told that taking estrogen would do nothing but good for them, until it was realized, after longitudinal, stringent study, that the exact opposite was true and it was quite dangerous. So the decision makers described above would be relying on whom and what research or evidence from which to draw their conclusions? The same sort that gave us the estrogen advice previously? I'm sorry. Science doesn't work like that. A panel of even the most stringent experts (and I doubt that is who we would get on it) cannot know what is the most effective treatment for any individual or even any group of individuals. They will actually be making decisions based entirely on cost. The disabled, elderly, and chronically ill will lose out. This is a moral outrage in the making.

[Jane]

Not to mention the fact that many of us oldsters will be rationed out of the system.

We need to make sure to bring a doc to the island.

[Jane]

BTW I heard from one uber-liberal specialist doc who said that if this provision goes thru, he will close his practice.

[Extraneus]

Perhaps a covert Republican operative somehow sneaked this into the bill?

[RichatUF]

Happy Birthday Danube of Thought!!!

(and Gov. Palin)

I'll break out the good vodka for the martinis this afternoon.

[Rick Ballard]

Jane,

What was it about the Kill Granny provision that bothered the doctor? Doesn't he realize that it's just for the 'common good' as defined by the mob majority? Why shouldn't "life" become as amorphous in meaning as "pursuit of happiness"? (Oops, it already has, hasn't it?) All it will take is the discovery of another emanation sitting quietly under a penumbra and the mob majority can do for granny what they have done for unborn babies - for the 'common good' and in the sure and certain knowledge that 'libertinismy is being advanced for all. After all, the pie is only so big and granny has always eaten more than her fair share.

[clarice]

OT The NYT is reporting the FBI is investigating what appears to be illegal campaign contributions from earmarked PMA to Murtha, Moran and Vilsocky--three Dems on the House defense appropriations committee. I should have something more about porker Murtha on PM today but don't miss the NYT piece..three miserable bums and the hoodlums the are in bed with.

[Sue]

How do liberals explain (yeah, I know they don't have to explain anything, compliant media) Europe's recession? Was it Bush's tax cuts that caused it?

[kim]

Remember the Colorado governor and his unfortunate remark that the old had a 'duty to die'?
=======================================

[bad]

Rick, I plan to start selling medical ID bracelets listing a variety of toxic drugs the wearer is supposedly ingesting.

The idea is to make their flesh less desirable to the hungry hordes roaming the streets doing the public service of eliminating the herd stragglers.

[Jane]

What was it about the Kill Granny provision that bothered the doctor?

My guess is it is the money.

[Rick Ballard]

If you care to watch bankers on their knees, justifying having their beggar's bowls filled, here is a live feed. It's the House so I can't guarantee what type of circus act it will be. I'll bet that "what have you done to feed and house the derelict and irresponsible?" will enter into the discussion regularly.

[Extraneus]

Seems the stimulus is stimulating some entrepeneurs already.

Heidi Fleiss abandons plan to open "stud farm" in Nevada, plans to get into "alternative energy" business instead.

"That's where the money is," she said. "That's the wave of the future."

Well said, Heidi.

[peter]

Happy Birthday, DoT and Sarah Palin. Many happy returns to drive the guy at LUN batshit

[kim]

Jane, I'd guess not, though I really haven't much idea of the specifics. Insurance companies have increasingly put doctors in ethical binds and this board would just worsen it.

Some years ago I heard a health policy researcher say that doctors spend their mornings fighting the insurance companies and their afternoons fighting the misdirected anger of their patients.

Old doctors never die. They just lose their patience.
==============================

[Old Lurker]

I speculated lo many threads back that fee-for-service medical providers (Mayo, et al) will build facilities on short flight islands exactly to provide proper care for those who can still pay. That works so far as it goes (and is already the model for a number of specialties in more distant countries who hire Harvard docs and other top-flight professionals). The real long term problem is that the drug/device idea market will dry up and blow away under the boot of central planning/funding...so "the best care" will stagnate.

[bad]

Barney Frank lecturing anybody on responsibility of any kind is hilarious. What an ass.

[kim]

Someone should tell Heidi that the price of carbon credits in Europe is only 30% of what it was six months ago. Someone should also tell her that the globe is cooling, but for just how long, even kim doesn't know.
=====================================

[Rick Ballard]

China acknowledges the bleeding obvious. Still lying though - container export traffic for January says -24% or so. The 3% economic "growth" projection needs to be taken with a small salt mine as well. That's an IMF PPP "pigs for chickens and rice" type of growth. No actual cash will be used. I would note that China's bluster concerning not buying Treasuries should be measured against the fact that they aren't generating much surplus cash. I suppose I should join them - I refuse to buy a new Gulfstream V until my demands are met.

[narciso]

No one followed through on the obvious metaphor between Heidi and Carbon Credits.
Also Great news, the New US Ambassador to Syria; LUned here, kind of blamed the Marines
for their bombing, in a monograph that seems to have mysteriously dissappeared.

[Old Lurker]

"I would note that China's bluster concerning not buying Treasuries should be measured against the fact that they aren't generating much surplus cash."

Nor do those guys in the ME/Russia/Ven, who must spend a certain slice of the oil barrel to keep their heads attached. $40 used to be considered below the head rolling threshold. So I hope Turbo has some other buyers up his sleeve.

Sorry about the colorful visual(detached heads)- still recalling the Sat threads stroll down French history and wondering about history repeating itself...

[cathyf]

I think what we need is a substitute bill. Here's my idea -- it fits on a page:

Starting with (and retroactive to) January 1, 2009, and ending with December 31, 2009;

the amount equal to the employee half of Social Security and Medicare taxes will be rebated to all employees, while self-employed individuals will receive a refundable tax credit equal to one-half their Self-Employment tax;

employers will file normal quarterly paperwork for payroll taxes, but the amount that they send in payment will be minus the rebate which employers will have delivered to their employees;

employers may deliver the rebate amount to employees in their regular paychecks, in supplemental paychecks, in a quarterly sum on or before the same date as the quarterly payroll tax payments are due, or any other method which delivers that quarter's employee rebate on or before the quarterly payroll tax due date;

self-employed individuals should adjust their quarterly withholding to reflect that their final tax liability will be reduced by one-half of their Self-Employment tax liability for 2009;

employees shall be credited for having actually paid all of the rebated Social Security, Medicare and/or Self-Employment Tax rebated;

since this half of Social Security, Medicare and/or Self-Employment tax is already taxable and taxed income, the actual receipt of the rebate money rather than its remission to the Treasury will have no effect whatsoever on the taxpayer's income tax due;

and these rebates shall be funded via the general revenues.

There you go -- simple, straightforward, fits on a page. Government employees won't even have to administer it, since every employer and self-employed person must already calculate all of these numbers. The administration is minimal, in that employers are just giving money to one party rather than another, and the amount of money is already the amount that appears on the pay stub (for employees) or a line on the 1040 (for the self-employed.)

It's a marginal tax cut, which is the most effective kind. It is progressive, in that it cuts social security taxes, which are regressive. It even delivers a smashmouth to one of my favorite pet peeves, the rich people who say, "Since the taxes poor people pay have a different name than the taxes rich people pay, rich people pay taxes and poor people don't."

And writing it out plumbed my superior talents in constructing run-on sentences!

[Extraneus]

You need to amend that to include science labs.

[hit and run]

I wish your sentences would never end, Cathy.

[Danube of Thought]

Many, many thanks for all the birthday wishes. I might as well acknowledge that I am now 68 years old. Looking back, it's hard to believe how impetuous and immature I was at 67.

Specter's challenger is a guy named Pat Toomey. I intend to contact him forthwith and offer my support.

[cathyf]

Actually, Extraneus, as an armchair architect and wife of a physics professor, I have some thoughts about the design of science labs... ;-)

[Pagar]

-three Dems on the House defense appropriations committee

More out of control FBI agents that haven't gotten the word-only Republicans will be investigated.

Than we have the terrible news, from S&L,that Marion Barry has tax problems.

For the second time in two years, frustrated federal prosecutors took aim at Marion Barry’s chronic failure to file his tax returns and urged a judge to put him in jail.

We are, of course, not told in the article which political group Mr. Barry supports. So I guess the Feds can't be blamed for attempting to discredit a Democrat, in this case.

[Extraneus]

Toomey almost got him last time. Looks like he's not sure whether he wants to try for Gov instead of finishing the job this time.

[Jane]

Specter's challenger is a guy named Pat Toomey. I intend to contact him forthwith and offer my support.

Dot,

Toomey was on the cruise and he stood out as one of the most impressive people there - certainly as good as Mitt on economic issues. He's a business guy - he started by owning a bunch of bars I think - and he may be the president of the Club for Growth.

I'd send him money. He's that impressive.

[Extraneus]

Better get in line, cathyf.

[Rick Ballard]

OL,

I'm coming around to Sunshine LLC combining with Mayo (I'd toss in Sansum as well) to establish the Caribbean Medical Training Facility. I'd bet that the teaching hospital would draw a fair share of docs for six week stints in the islands. The private clinic would be an adjunct (possibly of a much greater size than the teaching hospital, but that's a minor details). The docs could write off their stint as teachers and be partners in an LLC with a noble societal purpose.

[cathyf]

Extraneus, I bet I'm better at writing run-on sentences than they are.

Or maybe not.

[bad]

DoT, another few years and you'll be hitting your prime.

[glenda]

Danube of Thought:
I still love other tom, too! a "Happiest" evah birthday to you!. And keep on singing!

Guys, I took that Zogby poll-just like all others with Iraq war out and stimulus in!

Jane, Have I missed yesterday's show?

Narciso, I'm so sorry you will not get to meet the lovely Sarah in person, but I bet donuts to dollars she'll read YOUR b-day card! Besides, you get to meet Queen Clarice--what more could you want? Be sure to soak up all that history in and around D.C.

[Jane]

Glenda,

For some reason it's not up yet. I'm waiting to hear from my guy. I'm shocked he hasn't dropped everything for my benefit! I'll post something when it is.

[Topsecretk9]

one minute ago

From 15 down to 5%

Trust on Issues On Economic Issues, Voter Trust in Democrats Is Falling Wednesday, February 11, 2009 Email to a Friend

Democrats are still trusted more than Republicans to handle the economy by a 44% to 39% margin, but their advantage on the issue has been slipping steadily since November.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of likely voters found 17% are not sure which party they trust more to handle the economy, showing no change since the last poll conducted a month ago.

In the first poll conducted after Barack Obama was elected president, the Democrats held a 15-point lead over the GOP on economic issues. In December, their lead dropped to 12 points. In January, prior to Obama’s inauguration, Democrats held a nine-point lead on the issue.

Support for the $800-billion-plus economic stimulus plan put forth by President Obama and congressional Democrats has fallen over the past month. Although the plan has passed the House and the Senate, the overwhelming majority of voters are not confident that Congress knows what it’s doing with regards to the economy. The Senate and House versions of the stimulus plan will now be the subject of a joint conference to work out a package that both chambers can agree on.

[Pofarmer]

No one followed through on the obvious metaphor between Heidi and Carbon Credits.

Dang Narcisco beat me to it. A madam ought to recognized these kinds of opportunities.

[MayBee]

Looking back, it's hard to believe how impetuous and immature I was at 67.

Here's hoping you can spend this year putting 67 to shame.

[Old Lurker]

Rick, I think Sunshine LLC should encourage the First Federated Bank of St. Jane to assist in the creation of a Bermuda insurance company to write simple old fashioned medical policies (available first to properly admitted Island Residents) so that the money flows properly to the medical undertaking.

[matt]

The Ft. Myers audience was another hand picked photo op...it's mirrors and flashing lights to distract the rubes.....

as to the Chinese, they have 40 Million unemployed, not 20 as is being reported. The central government will do everything they can to maintain stability. That means that their emphasis and spending will most likely be internal. Not much appetite for U.S. bonds, where they feel they are overextended anyway.

So that leaves who to buy these inflated Treasuries? Russians? Middle Easterners? Europeans? The Japanese? nope, nope, nope, nope...two things; once burned twice shy, and they just don't have the loot.

The world is looking at the US government as the prime culprit in this fiasco, so the trust level is dropping fast, and these countries are much more worried about themselves than us. As the preacher in Blazing Saddles aptly said, "You're on your own!".

This going to get grim if the Dems have their way.

[Pofarmer]

Ya know, I can grow food and my wifes a nurse. Will youngsters be allowed on the Island?

[JM Hanes]

Jane

"We need to make sure to bring a doc to the island."

A young doctor. And Mark Steyn who will be needing to write his columns from an undisclosed location. The only question is whether an ocean is a big enough moat. We should probably be studying the Kurds.

[bad]

Po, bring the beef-- and the young 'uns.

[Sue]

As long as I get to wear cool sunglasses, I really don't care what my job title is.

[MayBee]

I have no real skills to add to the island community, but maybe I can learn to dance or something.

[Jane]

I want kids around Po - I'll even babysit on occasion.

Can someone tell me why O hasn't raced to Oklahoma? Is it the same reason he didn't go to Kentucky?

[Jane]

I have no real skills to add to the island community, but maybe I can learn to dance or something.

We have to have skills? I'm screwed.

[MayBee]

Did O even mention Kentucky? Did he issue a statement of sympathy and hope to the people there?

[bad]

Why the hell would O go to Oklahoma? They have the smartest voters in the US.

Screw 'em, he says.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

Another interesting article by Holman Jenkins at the WSJ on mark to market, etc.

[hit and run]

I have a friend who went to med school in Belize. Might be a good fit for the island, what with his experience with medicine in an exotic tropical climate.

[JM Hanes]

Sue, do I need to update my Lexus Nextus?

NotHot!: Ear muffs
NewCool: Sunglasses

I've been thinking we should just take over Bermuda. Nice living quarters, and only the folks who are smart enough to use actual navigational tools instead of encyclopedia maps would be able to find us. Daddy could fly folks in and out under the radar.

[narciso]

Thanks, Glenda, I'm working on it now,
I can't say I'm not dissapointed, but I understand why she has to do so. I am still looking forward to the trip though.

How's the family doing including the Sil,

[Jane]

Why the hell would O go to Oklahoma? They have the smartest voters in the US.

Screw 'em, he says.

Under the new census methodology Oklahoma will soon be a blue state or go without any aid at all. Think Hugo Chavez.

[hit and run]

Sue:

As long as I get to wear cool sunglasses, I really don't care what my job title is.

The sunglasses are fine as long as they don't clash with the earmuffs.

[MayBee]

I'm reading The Arena at Politico, and I've figured out why I started feeling so protective of Geithner yesterday. Several of the (male) respondents there mentioned the way he bends his head down and looks up, and how it makes him look like a schoolboy. They are horrified by this, but I realize it brings out my maternal instincts.

[JM Hanes]

MayBee, I bet you could learn to run the nuclear power plant Amused Bystander is going to build us in no time flat.

Jane's a shoe-in for Radio Free U.S.

[Porchlight]

LOL MayBee. He reminds me of Alex P. Keaton.

[jean]

Maybe you are so much kinder than I. I see Geithner and want to slap him , tell him to pay his taxes and start acting like a man

[bad]

lol Jane, thanks for the reminder.

Query... if Rahm is going to turn every state blue, will O need to campaign anymore? Whatever will he and his restless soul do?

[Jane]

JMH,

WE could become a destination island. Those still able to afford a cruise could come and see what freedom looks like. It would be educational.

[Jane]

Oh and we would charge a lot, because we are also capitalists.

[red forman]

I wanna kick his ASS

[Rick Ballard]

"but I realize it brings out my maternal instincts."

MayBee,

Easy to fix. Think of Turbo as a rat climbing into a crib.

Ignatz,

The Holman link is very good. He seems to miss the point that Turbo wants the power of triage in his own greasy little hands though. The decisions concerning which Zombies are allowed to continue to dance are worth quite a bit. To paraphrase Blago.

[Pal2Pal (Sara)]

Happy Birthday DOT.

Pat Toomey is head of the Club for Growth.

[bad]

Ignatz' link:

Either way, all he's done is put the market in suspense once more about which banks will be allowed to live and die and what standard the government will apply in deciding.

That's easy to answer... the banks that give the most contributions to the deciders.

[Rick Ballard]

10 year auction results. Good coverage and no inflationary impact showing in the results.

Here is the 10 year bond chart.

I ain't gonna draw any conclusions today. I'll be happy to read others conclusions though. Click 'Max' on the chart if you want to see rates back to 1962.

[bad]

Geithner reminds me of the character in Billy Madison who tried to push aside Adam Sandler's character. But less attractive and not as principled...

[Pal2Pal (Sara)]

Can I come too? Don't have any exceptional skills, but I've had survival training and my many years as a Girl Scout taught me how to be a good song leader and I build a mean campfire and know how to lash so I could help build the huts. As long as I don't have to climb a ladder. I don't do ladders.

[glenda]

Yes, destination of freedom, Jane!! Maybe, we need to form one of those off-shore trusts, first.

Hey, Narciso-good attitude RE: no Sarah
and thanks for asking, my SIL is in isolation getting rid of the rsv virus-and is very ready to come home-she has definitely got her fight back!

[MayBee]

good news, glenda!

[bad]

Wonderful, Glenda. How are your daughters? What's the situation?

[hit and run]

Pofarmer:

Ya know, I can grow food

Ok, but more specifically and much more importantly, what about about hops and barley?

[glenda]

Well, they would be perfect for the island--one's a medical scientist, the other can do anything and is funny and both are single.

thanks, bad.. they are still looking for job-trying not to go into houston, stay closer to home, Utmb filed their unemployment, but since they have their address and salaries wrong, nothing has come of it. Their $ is good for another couple months, so here's hoping. They have some good contacts going, so prayers are still high on their needs list. There's a big forum at UTMB with UT regents, who made the decison to lay off 4,000 next Friday. I guess I'm going, since I feel the need to holler at cutthroat greedy perk-taking buttheads!

[Jane]

Okay guys, the latest podcast of FWDAJ is now up.

If you listen and you hear any factual errors on my part, tell me, either here or in the comments. I got a little beside myself at a couple of places yesterday.

And if you make it all the way to the end, Dick's thing about Sarah Palin's legs (yes again) makes Narciso look like an amateur.

[Rick Ballard]

Frank Threatens Zombie Beggars

Frank asked the CEOs to impose a moratorium on foreclosures until Geithner can set up a program to modify mortgages for troubled borrowers.

“I would ask all of you now to please make sure that we have a moratorium in effect,” Frank said.

Frank told the bankers if they don’t like the restrictions on the government aid, they should return the money.

Gotta get all those ACORN CRA folks their 40 acres and a 3BR 2BA before the '10 elections. Note to watchers: The white folks with jumbos in the CA 'burbs are going to get screwed.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Happy Birthday, DOT. 68 is definitely the beginning of the end of impetuosity.

On the island deal, I want to make it clear to everyone that, like Clarice, I am no longer engaged in the active practice of law except in a consulting capacity. I figured that no one really needs practicing lawyers on the island.

Bring on the Mayos, though. Oxnard and Brigham and Women's Docs might help too.

They should get a special deal.

Has anyone else gotten the impression that the new administration's activities on the economic problems seem strangely like Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland's activities "putting on a show" in their 40's films?

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Testing - typhus is swallowing comments today.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Oops, there it is.

[cathyf]

Hey, Sara, I'll join you with the girl scout leader stuff (just as soon as I finish moving the 1,300 boxes of cookies out of my van...) And my husband can design us a nuclear reactor, or a bomb, or both, and we could bring our own yellowcake. (It's ok that my husband is just a theorist -- my 14-yr-old can build anything.) And we'll need my 10-yr-old to deliver the girl scout cookies. And sing the Baby Bumblebee song and Green Socks.

GREEEEN
Socks they never get dirty
The longer you wear them
The stronger they get.

SOOMMME
Times I think I might wash them
But something inside me
Keeps saying, "Not yet!"

Not yet not yet not yet not yet not yet...