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February 21, 2009

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kim

There is a new report suggesting Nancy-Ann Deparle or Jack Lew, or both together(O-some) for HHS Secretary instead of Kathleen Sebelius.
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boris

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2009/02/saturday-morning/comments/page/666/#comments

The offical Great Thread Ender.

boris

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2009/02/showing-up/comments/page/666/?cid=xxx#comments

Test

centralcal

Thanks, Boris! It is kinda sad that TM doesn't read his own commenters more often (or he would have known his "end of thread" no longer works).

I guess TypePad is never going to fix their flawed product!

Caro

You can listen to Kudlow this morning online at WABC.

Rick Ballard

The Democrat Flat Earth Society strikes again. Somewhere in hell, Lysenko is applauding wildly as Stalin beams between screams.

On a more cheering note, Rasmussen shows the Obama sux category growing strongly. At a month from inauguration "strongly disapprove" has moved from 16% to 28%. I really believe that the President's obvious incompetence, lack of character and lack of intelligence will prove to be compelling factors in moving this category to new heights.

bgates

So I see the headline, "Obama tells Treasury to begin cutting taxes", and I say to myself, "looks like the old Republic got formally abolished overnight". Because even though I went to a government school, I know that setting taxes is, or was, a legislative responsibility.

Turns out he's ordering a reduction in withholding, which the government watchlapdogs in the media are reporting as a tax cut for 95% of Americans.

Sue

From Obama's Saturday morning radio...

He pivoted to a conversation about fiscal responsibility, noting that Monday he "will convene a fiscal summit of independent experts and unions, advocacy groups and members of Congress to discuss how we can cut the trillion-dollar deficit that we’ve inherited."

The bold is mine. I have a vision of how this would play out if say Bush/Cheney met with people in energy to discuss how to cut the high costs of energy. Or maybe it isn't a vision but a vivid memory.

clarice

Drudge carries a report indicating scientists missed 500,000 sq kilometers of arctic ice because of a problem with a floating sensor.

Neo

The "New Era of Responsibility" has been reduced to this.

Pagar

How much education does one need in order to understand that a change in your withholding does not equal a tax cut? This nation needs more Joes the Plumber and less media personnel.

Rick Ballard

Clarice,

The sensor is floating in space. No problem though, a much better sensor has been providing more accurate data for some time. As NSIDC (the reporting agency) explains:

Some people might ask why we don’t simply switch to the EOS AMSR-E sensor. AMSR-E is a newer and more accurate passive microwave sensor. However, we do not use AMSR-E data in our analysis because it is not consistent with our historical data. Thus, while AMSR-E gives us greater accuracy and more confidence on current sea ice conditions, it actually provides less accuracy on the long-term changes over the past thirty years.

That needs to be read a few times in order to fully comprehend the state of "climate science". A sensor which has been failing for X??? amount of time provides data giving more accuracy concerning the "past thirty years" than the newer, more accurate sensor.

One might wonder how NSIDC "knows" when the older sensor began degrading and to what extent the degradation distorted information in, oh, let's say the past 5-10 years. One might also wonder about the extent of the manipulation used by NSIDC to "correct" data provided by the faulty sensor.

Oh, well, the "science" is settled anyway. I sure hope everyone is staying back from the edge of the earth. Who knows where people land once they fall off?

MayBee

Jane- I'm listening to your FWDAJ. I love it when you ask why MA loves the Kennedys so much, and mention you can't think of one thing he's done for MA. Dick apparently can't either.
Good stuff!

Jane

Thanks Maybee - We got into a yelling match later on I think. The man wouldn't shut up.

Danube of Thought

It is a rare and delightful thing to see a man one loathes brought low and thoroughly humiliated in public. And so it is that we must savor, for all it's worth, the exposure of the fraudulent hypocrite Bill Moyers, that insufferable, sanctimonious liberal scold.

Jack Schaefer in Slate does the job most adequately; LUN. What could be more enjoyable? One can only hope that Moyers is so bombarded with inquiroes about his disgraceful behavior that he will be driven to ground.

If anyone knows how to send a zinger to this mountebank, please let us all know.

Pagar

and members of Congress to discuss how we can cut the trillion-dollar deficit that we’ve inherited

Recommendations--implement my plan to cut the cost of elections, by not allowing candidates to spend money on campaigns. My guess, that plan would eliminate the need for term limits, as I think the present system just allows candidates to buy their seats.

Permit no bill to be passed until each and every Congressperson is prepared to sign that he/she has read and understands that bill and is willing to sign it under the Aye or Nay Column. The way it is now, a person signing up for a Yahoo account, or most other online accounts, has to sign that they have read and understood the Terms of Use of that Site. Congresspersons, as I see, have no responsibility to anyone for anything.

Cut the number of aides to Congressperson, my recommendation would be to give each member one aide. I don't know if anyone of the Congresspersons have noticed, but there is a thing called the internet that is used by many businesses to replace employees. Has anyone ever heard of any government position being cut?

Eliminate any preference for unions on any government job.

I can give them a thousand more ways to cut expenses if they want.

Danube of Thought

Well...I posted a comment a moment ago about Bill Moyers, purporting to do a LUN. Forgot the link, but now I've included it. Of course, my earlier comment is nowhere to be found.

Danube of Thought

OK--now the Moyers thing is here.

Shame on you, Jane. Don't you know of Teddy's greatest gift to MA, the blocking of a windfarm that might obstruct the view from Hyannis Port?

TCO

You all wanted the TARP bailout. Don't start complaining now. RINOs.

Jim Ryan

Rick, investing in popcorn concerns now is a good bet. If the globe continues to cool for another few years, sales will be enormous at the contortionist freak shows, especially when Al himself is forced onto the stage.

centralcal

Danube:

The only Moyers Contact I could find.

Danube of Thought

Oh goody--the Wall Street Journal joins in the Bill Moyers fun. LUN

Danube of Thought

"Dear Mr. Moyers:

"It would be impossible to overstate the glee I felt upon seeing you exposed for the sanctimonious charlatan I have always known you to be. From this day forward, all the preaching you do to the rest of us will be met with richly-deserved hoots of derision.

"Cordially,
[x]"

Jack is Back!

I still have my "We are the Change" button from Bush 41's inauguration. Can I use that again, now instead of the "New Era of Responsibility" one?

Jane

Shame on you, Jane. Don't you know of Teddy's greatest gift to MA, the blocking of a windfarm that might obstruct the view from Hyannis Port?

DOT,

We covered that last week. Dick thinks the only job of any elected official to Washington is to get earmarks.

If that's true, it would be a lot less expensive to simply hold a lottary and get rid of the middleman.

Jane

uh "lottery"

glasater

The on-going saga of Rick Santelli:

Santelli on Kudlow

A Japanese or Chinese person is accumulating videos and posting on YouTube.

BobS

Hello everyone! If I may allow myself some self-congradulatory, self-centered, self-indulgence.....Happy Birthday to me.....I'm 50!

(and to think many said it would never happen)

Charlie (Colorado)

Hmmm. From the Shafer piece:

When Moyers was Johnson's press secretary, he believed that journalists existed to serve the president.

It'd be interesting to see Chris Matthews' reaction to this.

matt

Here in California we are now maxing our number of dependents to ensure that the state doesn't get and keep our money next time. The whole IOU thing is an insult to those who try and ensure that they're financially covered at tax time. Perhaps if enough of us do this it may have an impact on the clowns spending us into the ground.

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

It is a rare and delightful thing to see a man one loathes brought low and thoroughly humiliated in public.

I believe you could fill one of Marlin Perkins' old rhino tranquilizer darts with a full load of shame, shoot a snorting and galloping Bill Moyers square in the ass with it from a bouncing Land Rover and he wouldn't blink an eye.

It's very difficult to humiliate people who have no personal moral standards, only communal ones.

Gmax

Rick Santelli is my hero. And President Zero is about to fall off a cliff in approval ratings. The honeymoon is going to short, like a Brittney Spears marriage.

BobS

OMG! It's ChaCo! Along with Clarice, its our other rock star.....hi, ChaCo

hit and run

Happy Birthday BobS!

I always knew it would happen.

BobS

Thanks H&R...leaving New York, moving home and being around kids full time helped more than I can say

matt

Ignatz;

doesn't that apply to most democrats these days?

Jane

Happy Birthday Bob! Elliott - our resident birthday guru is falling down on the job!

Hope it is the best one evah!

centralcal

Happy Birthday, BobS.

DebinNC

Felicitations, Bob! As the t-shirt says, "Age is just a number... and mine is unlisted."

centralcal

Ignatz (and matt) - too true!

Danube of Thought

I dunno, Ignatz. Check out his comment about "how will I explain this to my kids?"
Anyhow, regardless of how he feels about it, the world is now on inescapable notice of his character.

matt

Rick;

the problem with changing the sensor to the latest technology is that the results will not have statistical meaning. Any time you change a given in an equation, the new equation becomes invalid. I think they were trying to replace the old sensor with the same sensor in this case.

As to degradation of the sensor, there are usually several redundant systems that compare day to day results and can sense an optical or electronic glitch, after which it becomes more closely tracked. In many cases, these results are then factored into the algorithms so that results can remain consistent. Optical coatings are tested prior to implementation to determine degradation curves as well.

Some of the satellites in space have been running for 25 years using late 1960's technology with accurate results based upon some tremendous engineering work. The problem is that we are doing less and less of this kind of work ourselves anymore. COTS is the bane of high technology.

Sue

Gmax? What a great day this has turned out to be.

Happy birthday Bob!

MaryD

I'm about as far from an economic genius as you can get, and I have a question about the so-called 'tax cut'. If people's withholding is arbitrarily reduced, and the rate of taxation stays the same, what are the chances of an unpleasant shock of a bill, rather than a refund, next year?
All help on this gratefully appreciated.

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

I dunno, Ignatz. Check out his comment about "how will I explain this to my kids?"

Yeah, they get stumped for a minute or two but they always figure out a way to explain don't they?
After racking what, in their case, passes for a brain, they usually remember that a Republican made them do it.

Ranger

I'm about as far from an economic genius as you can get, and I have a question about the so-called 'tax cut'. If people's withholding is arbitrarily reduced, and the rate of taxation stays the same, what are the chances of an unpleasant shock of a bill, rather than a refund, next year?
All help on this gratefully appreciated.

Posted by: MaryD | February 21, 2009 at 12:51 PM

Yes, that is exactly what will happen, or at least they will not get nearly as big of a refund. Of course, I am sure the Dems in congress will figure that out by April of next year, and just have the Treasury cut a check for a few hundered $ to make up the difference.

On a side note, it has always amaized me how excited people get about their tax refund. They seem to think that it is "found money" they are getting free from the government. They have no real appriciation that it was their money in the first place that the government took and held from them for the past year.

I am a big believer in having people write an income tax and a FICA tax check every month, and have them co-sign their employers FICA controbution. That might get people to realize how much of their money was going out of their paycheck every month.

glasater

Silberman's comment from 2005:

I intend to take to my grave nasty bits of information on various political figures -- some still active. As bad as the dirt collection business was, perhaps even worse was the evidence that he had allowed -- even offered -- the bureau to be used by presidents for nakedly political purposes. I have always thought that the most heinous act in which a democratic government can engage is to use its law enforcement machinery for political ends.
narciso

Hey, Happy birthday, BobS, how many Aquarius's are there in this group

MaryD

Thanks, Ranger. And I'm in total agreement about the monthly check. Withholding is another abomination for which we can thank that genius FDR.

BobS

Thanl you all.....jane, deb, centralcal, sue

centralcal

Work has been crazy and I have only had time to read summaries about the so-called "tax cut." Does anyone have a link about the payroll withholdings that are due to begin in April?

matt

many happy returns, Bob

MayBee

Happy Birthday, BobS.
Narciso, we're in Pisces territory now.

kim

At Watts Up, poor Walt Meirs, of the NSIDC, wondered why this was newsy enough to rate a blog post, and now it is on Drudge.

I understand the point about using the old sensor technology in order to preserve the integrity of the data series. It seems to me that this excuse can only last so long, because they can validate the new series by comparing to the old, and presumably, at some time, they will prefer the newer technology.

There is much suspicion among the skeptic community about deliberate manipulation of data. Walt Meirs appears to be one of the good guys, and has been forthcoming with explanations. He is probably unfairly tagged with some of the lousy scientific ethics of the bad guys.
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Charlie (Colorado)

Thanks, Bob. And Happy Birthday.

The good thing about turning 50 is that you get over it in a year or so.

narciso

Mark Steyn, revisits Malakand, which I mentioned on a post here, and in my own blog. As he puts, the Brits currently don't think it's worth the candle to interfere there. Maybe King William or Harry, will revisit the area, because I don't see a tinker' damn of interest coming from Cameron.

Pagar

Happy Birthday, BobS.

I wonder how much of this 95% will pay less tax deal is the result of having a Sec of Treasury who doesn't understand (or thinks he can manipulate) the tax code. My advice to every conservative commentator would be to hit this issue every single chance they have.
I visited the IRS web site. There is absolutely nothing I can see that would indicate anyone is getting a tax CUT. Surely, this is an issue that people can understand---a reduction in withholding is not a tax cut. If one can't understand that IMO, one should not be in the Governing or the Media business.

Pagar

www.irs.gov shows some new withholding tables, I didn't review them since I don't have any interest in them.

centralcal

a reduction in withholding is not a tax cut

Exactly, Pagar. Has there been any mention of a reduction in tax liability? I am thinking this "tax cut" could actually come back to bite everybody in the behind if their liability is not reduced.

Danube of Thought

Happy day, BobS. I attended a nephew's 50th last weekend and God, did that make me feel ancient. As a wonderful elderly lady said on a birthday card to my sister on her 50th, "Oh, to be fifty again!"

RichatUF

Happy Birthday BobS!!

Rick-

Thanks for pointing that out. I'm still scratching my head-how is it that a set of observations which conflict with a model that the "climate scientists" still turn to the model? Curiouser and curiouser.

Also saw a link over at Insty where Bill Quick is looking for where Soros "is shorted". One of the comments said something about a gold/oil ratio of 10-1 (its 26 today) and looking over data from 96 the ratio on a monthly basis is 13 (the '98 commodities depression knocked the legs out of the ratio). Always remembering reflexivity and where the commentors believe Soros has his money, I would say that Soros probably thinks gold is going to drop (quite substantially) and has his bets set up in such a way as to cash in (commodities currencies AZ$, CD$, SF rand probably shorted, gold futures shorted...don't know where he would park it though, Brazil maybe?).

Sorry for putting that comment here because I needed a quick notepad.

Jane

Well we are about to get a huge tax increase in gasoline, so we can brag about having the highest gas prices in the country. I'm sure Deval patrick will find a way to bill that as a "tax cut".

kim

Because of the willing connivance of the press, this administration believes we are all stupid and gullible. Obviously, unless I'm mistaken, Geithner knows this is no tax cut, but believes it can be sold as such to the great unwashed. This administration is doing this sort of carp repeatedly. Another example is 'Spreading the wealth is good for everybody'. Look how many believe that.

The press is only going to stand so much intimidating, though. When the worm turns, the bud will die.
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kim

The business of the modelers, Rich, is a madness of the crowd, a mass hysteria. They have little problem believing their models over empirical data. Look how much they cost, look at the size of the computers needed to run them, and look at the immense amount of hard and honest work put into them. The error is quite simple: water vapor feedback to CO2 forcing, and they cannot see it.
=============================

DrJ

Happy Birthday, BobS!

I'm back from another whirlwind trip to DC -- on one of these I will have to visit Clarice! I was serving on a couple of NSF panels, and there are a couple of interesting things I'd like to mention.

While the exact nature of what porkulus means to NSF and NIH, they are speculating that they will have to spend a lot of their new monies in 120 days. That is really hard to do: most of the good work gets funded already, though some borderline ones will probably now get awards. The other option is to increase award amounts, which of course the awardees would love. It's still much too early to tell, though, and this is all speculation yet.

The other tidbit is that one panel was on "green" technology. Man, what a bunch of lousy proposals as a whole. A couple were quite good, but most of the others ignored one minor detail: the economics of what they were trying to do. You'd think that might be a consideration if you are looking to introduce a new process. But no -- no interest at all. Not even a target for which they were striving.

This did not impress the panelists at all, and we let the proposers know through our reviews. I do hope the word gets out.

clarice

Happy birthday Bob.

I testified three times against the confirmation of Silberman..His article is interesting. Oddly LBJ had nothing to fear from Goldwater who as you might expect was always for gay rights and would never have used the Jenkins stuff against LBJ..or the Valente stuff or anything like that. In retrospect, he was a true gentleman and the most civil of pols.

clarice

Dr J, I hope we do get together one day.
Money keeps rolling into DC guys--just as I told you--out of your pockets into mine:
From Yahoo:

"Look out, New York. Washington is gaining on you.

As the nation's most populous metro area feels Wall Street's pain, the fourth-largest -- Washington -- is barely sensing the recession. In fact, Moody's Economy.com estimates that metro Washington's economy will actually grow 2.5% from mid-2008 through mid-2010. New York's economy is expected to shrink 4.2%."

PLUS there's talk that if Congress cannot find a constitutional way to give us Congressional representation, DC residents should be exempt from paying federal tax. Hope that goes thru my house will be worth a king's ransom.

Pagar

Narciso, on th 18th of Feb, 10.01 am
Bubalublog had a book review on
"BETRAYAL: Clinton, Castro & the Cuban Five"
by Lawrence and Van Hale.
Have you seen the book? If you have, Is it worth buying?
--------------------------In a separate entry----------------------------------
They also have a letter to AG Holder:

While Assistant Attorney General you were deeply involved in the legal justification of a nocturnal armed invasion of a humble home in Miami's "Little Havana". Your raid failed to find even a harmless pocket knife, but a minor was taken forcefully -- at the point of a gun -- from the premises. Under the false pretense of his reunion with his father the unfortunate child ended up as a juvenile buffoon for a bloody Tyrant. That was an act of cowardice!

We Americans are not cowards. You are the coward!
I am sure you will not read this message, but rest assured it will be published!

kim

DrJ, you are spitting into the wind. A lot of this green carp is going to be forced down our throats by mandates and subsidies, unless, and it is a big if, this fantasy of high climate sensitivity to CO2 can be revealed as the chimera it is. One of the worst is so-called 'carbon capture'. However, with you, I know I am preaching to the choir.
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glasater

Kim--This one's for you:

How not to measure temperature, part 83: No smoking please

I live ten miles away from this silliness. I also sent this link to our local editorial page editor.

glasater

Oh--and I forgot to say:

Happy Birthday Bob S. Turning fifty is a milestone and the fun is just beginning for you!

DrJ

A lot of this green carp is going to be forced down our throats by mandates and subsidies

Oh I know that, Kim. I just want that acknowledged.

For example, if someone wants to produce methanol from carbon dioxide emitted from power plants (really!), I want to know how much above the going rate for it would be. Since it sells for under a buck a gallon, the proposer should at least claim that they want to make it for $10 a gallon. That would give one an idea about the incredible subsidy that is required, and some more reasonable reckoning is possible.

It may be a pipe dream, but it really is necessary.

kim

Thanks, glasater. For several weeks my LUN has gone to Watts Up and the irony is that it will not load for me. Anthony Watts is busily wrecking the credibility of US land temperature data.

The whole blog is fascinating, and Leif Svalgaard is simply astounding when he contributes on the solar threads. He is an extremely patient and informative instructor. I've compared his personality to the subject of his interest; energetic, cheering, and constant.

I've had a recent personal triumph. bender, one of the bright lights at climateaudit.org said recently that I comment substantively. Well, he did say that it was on other blogs, implying that my comments at CA are not very substantive, which is true. I'm not scientist enough to contribute, but the writing there is lucid enough for me to follow the arguments. Sort of.
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kim

It should be obvious that recreating hydrocarbon bonds will take as much or more energy than can be retrieved by breaking them. It's as if they believe in perpetual motion machines.
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Granny

There is a group, Chicago Tea Party, on Facebook with currently over 1500 members. They are planning a mass mailing of tea bags to the White House on April 1, 2009!

http://www.reteaparty.com/contact/

bad

Happy Birthday BobS. Celebrate and rejoice!! May you have many more.

bad

Rick and Rich, do we know how many jumbo mortgages are involved in the foreclosure issue? And if so, what the dollar amount is compared to non-jumbos?

PD

I don't understand why we're seeing the big dust-up about Moyers now. I mean, sure, I'm glad to seem him exposed as a pompous hypocrite, but isn't this old news? Why the big upspike in coverage now?

DrJ

...recreating hydrocarbon bonds will take as much or more energy than can be retrieved by breaking them.

It takes an enormous amount of energy to make anything from CO2, since CO2 is really stable. That's why so much of this green stuff is nonsense.

DrJ

I don't understand why we're seeing the big dust-up about Moyers now.

I wondered the same, PD. I already knew this.

Clarice, I'll see what I can do for my next visit. Often the trips are a single day only (fly in the night before, meet the next day, and catch a plane out that evening). If they are longer, let's have dinner!

bad

I don't understand why we're seeing the big dust-up about Moyers now.

Maybe we've got an outed gay somewhere determined to out an outer.

Captain Hate

Happy birthday BobS.

With all this exposure of the sanctimonious gasbag named Bill Moyers, including being complicit in the bugging of Martin Luther Kin, I feel like it's my birthday. Or Christmas in February.

kim

Exactly, DrJ; and that makes it even more poignant that CO2 is being demonized. With temperatures falling, and CO2 rising, it is becoming more obvious every day that climate sensitivity to CO2 has been exaggerated. And Obama's administration is packed with alarmists.

Oh well, it's his tarpit he is stumbling into. Too bad he's draggilng the rest of us in also. My only conslolation is that this wrong-footing can eventually be turned to political advantage against him. Again, too bad that real harm must be done to real people before this great, great policy error is corrected.
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Captain Hate

that's Martin Luther King

bad

PLUS there's talk that if Congress cannot find a constitutional way to give us Congressional representation, DC residents should be exempt from paying federal tax. Hope that goes thru my house will be worth a king's ransom.

Can't possibly happen with all of those patriots in congress living there.

narciso

He was the David Axelrod of 1964-1965. In the hell hath frotbite department, Brooks has good things to say about the Christian
right, leaves out one candidate in particular, coincidence

kim

One particularly sickening thing about the climate policy debate is that in all other areas where science impacts policy, much documentation, and engineering quality studies, must be in the public record. In climate science we have an echo-chambered coterie of scientists who resist documentation and replication of their work. It is bad, really bad, and can be explained at least partly because politics has pushed the science, not the other way around.

Richard Lindzen has a dynamite article about the perversion of science and policy in the climate debate. Sorry no link, easily found googling.
============================================

thelonereader

Happy 50 BobS. I myself turn 55 on Monday, though I knew I would get there, just not so quickly.
In reponse to Chaco's question on Chris Matthews' take on Bill Moyers statement on the press, I believe Chrissy thinks the press is there to SERVICE the president. (Well at least the current president.) What with his leg being all tingley and all.

Danube of Thought

PD, I think the reason for the current discussion about Moyers is that the WaPo just obtained (via FOIA) two memos he wrote to J. Edgar that pretty much confirm what Silberman had said in 2005. Personally, I'd like to see it come up anew roughly every six months.

kim

Perhaps, the Moyer thing is to remind even the rabid Obama partisans among them that journalists have shameful secrets, too.
======================================

kim

One of these fine days, some journalist is going to fasten on the meme that all of the authoritarian horrors imagined in the Bush Administration are coming to life in the Obama Regime. I knew it would happen eventually years ago when I saw that BDS is fundamentally the projection of the Democrats' own evils.
==================

boris

IMO it's more than projection. They claim they're fighting fire with fire as an excuse to engage in arson.

clarice

Dr J, I understand about shoer hops and tight schedules but if we can get together it would be nice.

DGS

The people who think Zero just gave them a tax cut are the same people who think that by increasing their deductions on their W4 they are giving themselves a tax cut. The effect is the same.

DrJ

Agreed, Clarice! I'll try to get it to work next time I'm out.

cathyf
PLUS there's talk that if Congress cannot find a constitutional way to give us Congressional representation, DC residents should be exempt from paying federal tax.
Gee, I live in a very solidly republican county that is in the middle of a long skinny twisted gerrymandered democrat congressional district. Shouldn't I be exempt from federal tax too?
clarice

Why not,Cathy? Something for everybody..

gmax

How big was the chunk of ice that the "scientists" missed? The size of California? That is kinda a big Oops, even for the Hansen crowd? But speaking of having no shame, I am sure we wont see an apology or even it being reported on the nightly news, like the shrinking report it was based on was reported so breathlessly.

kim

It was half a million square kilometers, gmax. However, I believe this was an honest mistake.

The big problem is less the scientists now than before; all important papers are being looked at carefully and challenged. Most journalists are still hornswoggled about this issue, and the trouble with politicians is that they can see power and control with carbon encumbering, and really don't care if the science matches or not.

The Copenhagen replacement for Kyoto that will be worked on this fall will be interesting to watch. The Indians and the Chinese are perfectly aware that the globe is cooling and that CO2's role in climate is small, and they have no intention of starving and freezing their population, and denying them cheap energy, for the precious conceit of a Western elite.

I suspect this agreement will be much less ambitious than Kyoto, which, of course, was not honored. Then again, a cooling globe, and scientific reality may intrude just enough to make Copenhagen a huge fight, and end with no agreement, or some pitiful facade of one. No one can afford to raise the price of energy now, not even the US.
================================

Jane

I think this is interesting from Don Surber (LUN):

The founder of al-Qaeda: “Every drop of blood that was shed or is being shed in Afghanistan and Iraq is the responsibility of bin Laden and Zawahiri and their followers.”

You got that?

Let me repeat the words from Sayyid Imam al-Sharif, who helped bin Laden form al-Qaeda:

“Every drop of blood that was shed or is being shed in Afghanistan and Iraq is the responsibility of bin Laden and Zawahiri and their followers.”

Not George Bush.

Not Dick Cheney.

Not Bill Clinton.

The man who is responsible for “every drop of blood that was shed or is being shed in Afghanistan and Iraq” is Osama bin Laden.

To say otherwise is to ignore the words of Osama bin Laden’s co-founder of al-Qaeda.

The London Daily Telegraph reported that this is part of a book that al-Sharif wrote in prison in Egypt.

The 9/11 attacks? “Ramming America has become the shortest road to fame and leadership among the Arabs and Muslims. But what good is it if you destroy one of your enemy’s buildings, and he destroys one of your countries? What good is it if you kill one of his people, and he kills a thousand of yours? That, in short, is my evaluation of 9/11.”

Fifth Column attacks from people who migrate to Britain and other nations? “If they gave you permission to enter their homes and live with them, and if they gave you security for yourself and your money, and if they gave you the opportunity to work or study, or they granted you political asylum,” then it is “not honorable” to “betray them, through killing and destruction.”

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