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February 24, 2009

Comments

kim

We're all Rick Santellis, now. This Presidency is a moral hazard. Bill Clinton, we barely knew you.
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bad

Fascinating

steve sturm

unfortunately, the concept of rewarding bad behavior has spread to the public sector, where American Express is paying some of its deadbeats $300 to settle their accounts and go away... almost makes me wish I hadn't been paying my Amex bill on time

kim

Little known fact, ss; AE may well be reporting the difference to the IRS as income to the deadbeat.
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Rick Ballard

"The real controversy would develop if their call for a national mortgage strike caught fire."

Why? A mortgage strike hits no one but the person who joins in and then pays a penalty in May for making a useless gesture in April. I would much rather see every Federal Courthouse in every state blocked on April 15th. I signed a contract promising to pay my mortgage every month. I'm not breaking my word just to make a futile gesture which which will have a negative impact on both my bank account and my credit rating.

I'll be happy to block a Federal courthouse though. Just pull up in front of it, turn off the motor and refuse to move. That might cost a little bit but if five hundred people do it in front of every courthouse it would sure make an impression.

BTW - it ain't 92%. Add the 35-38% of folks who are renters to the 8% of schlubs and the total comes to 43-46% v 54-57% of people making timely payments. The low tercile is always ignored. Except by Obama and the Dems who manipulate them like hand puppets.

steve sturm

Kim: give me a $300 gift card and I'll happily pay tax on it.

kim

No, it's not just the $300; it's whatever debt was forgiven. And I'm not sure that most of those recipients know that it is reported to the IRS. Ugly surprise coming for many of them.
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bad

I don't want my mortgage company to change its mind about our contract and decide next week that it wants the balance due in full...within 30 days..... or whatever random date they pick.

Contract certainty works for a fuddy duddy like me.

kim

Which brings up another point. Will all these forgiven loans and payments be counted as income to those benefitted?
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steve sturm

Rick: why add renters to the schlubs? They're presumably paying their rent each month and they're not being helped by letting deadbeats stay in homes that the renters could otherwise buy (if they were so inclined).

And just curious, what is the composition of the 92%? Is it homeowners paying their mortgage on time or the percentage of homeowners not delinquent on a mortgage... not the same thing, as the latter includes homeowners with no mortgage. If the former, then the number of homeowners not delinquent would actually be higher than 92%.

steve sturm

Kim: per the story, it seems the $300 card is for delinquents who pay up and go away... so there doesn't appear to be any forgiveness of debt, just a $300 gift. And there is a provision in the stimulus bill that lets those who receive debt relief to defer paying their taxes; I presume, but don't know for sure, that it would apply to non-secured consumer debt as well.

Rick Ballard

I should not have added renters to the schlubs. I should have inverted the order. Your question about the composition of the 92% is very good. 32% of homes are mortgage free. That moves the 92% to 95%.

Sue

Sweet

Can you just imagine the heads exploding if the headline said "Run by Cheneys"?

cathyf

Financial institutions have large portfolios of mortgage-backed securities, and also large portfolios of credit-default swaps, which are insurance policies in case the mortgages in the MBSs go into default. Just to focus people's attention: the core of the financial crisis is that if those MBSs decline in value enough, and the CDSs increase in value enough, then large numbers of those financial institutions are insolvent.

Up to this point the argument has had a fairly large theoretical component: most mortgages (92% as the title says) have been kept current up until now, and if it stays that way, then the MBSs have great value and the CDSs don't. On the other hand, if some significant number of mortgage holders move into the default category, then, in fact, the banks and other financial institutions are insolvent.

All of this involves statistics and theoretical values and pricing models. The problem with mark-to-market accounting is that, as a result of a legal and regulatory environment of the Arthur Anderson prosecution and Sarbanes-Oakley, is that accountants are refusing to value MBSs at greater than zero and CDSs at less than 100% payout.

To take an example that doesn't require calculus: suppose every one of the homes that Allstate insures burns to the ground in the same day; that same day, every car that Allstate insures is in an accident that totals the car; and also that day every person with an Allstate life insurance policy dies. Do we all agree that if this were to happen, Allstate would be bankrupt? The problem with mark-to-market accounting is that the accountants are insisting that the financial institutions value their stuff under a doomsday scenario which is utterly improbable, and causing the financial institutions to appear insolvent.

Ok, to extend the Allstate example -- it's simply impossible that all of the houses, cars and people could be accidentally destroyed in one day. But send out big enough teams of arsonists and assassins with lists, and that's a different story.

The problem with the mortgage bailout is that if Obama convinces enough of the 92%-ers to default on their mortgages, then this will mean that the MBSs are worth a lot less than before the Obama plan and the CDSs a lot more. So every financial institution will have to be revalued, and they will be insolvent.

DebinNC

Houston City Council: "The “Credit Score Enhancement Program” will give up to $3,000 in grants to individuals who are trying to qualify for mortgages through the city’s homebuyers assistance program. City officials say some applicants fall short of eligibility by only 10 or 20 points on their credit scores, and paying off some debt balances can quickly improve their numbers."

This will spread to every city with an ACORN branch. If people are mad now, what about when we're also paying off folks' VISA and GMAC?

Soylent Red

Slightly off topic but speaking of discontent...

I was in OCS with this guy.

Back to your regularly scheduled discontent.

kim

Thanks, steve; it always helps to read the story.
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kim

That's a nice update on the progress of the Birth Certificate lawsuits, Soylent. BR was looking for such an update. This issue won't go away until Obama is forthcoming, and it will increase in importance as discontent with Obama rises. It may be an easy way to dump him if the need to impeach becomes compelling.
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bad

Sue, your link isn't working for me.

Charlie (Colorado)

Kim, think about who gets the job if we were to get rid of Obama.

bad

Don't scare me like that Charlie. I've worked very hard to block those thoughts.

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

The problem with mark-to-market accounting

Good, plainly written article on mark to market here at CNBC.
I know Rich is skeptical of the value of suspending m to m but Steve Forbes and Larry Kudlow among many others are vocal proponents.

Sue

bad,

It didn't work for me either.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,499067,00.html>Try this

kim

Maybe so, Charlie, but an ineligible Obama invalidates the election. Biden might become President, and he might not. New territory, and interesting times.
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kim

Really, wouldn't Bush still be President if Obama is ineligible? I think the Supremes will eventually regret not resolving this when it was in their power to do so.
=======================

Sue

I understand you have to have standing to bring a lawsuit, and in most cases, I get why the plaintiff doesn't have standing, but this one, the BC issue, has me buffaloed. Why don't everyday, ordinary citizens have standing as the plaintiff?

sbw

Charlie, Wrongway Peachfuzz was a likeable incompetent nincompoop. I prefer that to mendacity.

[Peachfuzz] is the owner and captain of the S.S. Guppy and has no clue what he's doing. It was rumored that he was a member of the Navy, but all evidence shows he's never been in the Navy. Nor has he ever been on a boat before. On his last voyage, he and his crew spent 43 days going in a circle. They went 200 miles and were still in the bay. In fear of their lives, his crew installed a fake captain's wheel so that Captain Peachfuzz only "thought" he was steering. Last reports of his whereabouts say he got lost inside of a paper bag and cannot find his way out.

bad

Clarice, please phone home. Hope you are better today.

Rick Ballard

Bernanke's testimony today. My estimate of max unemployment rate is about 1.5% higher than the FOMC 8.5-8.75% projection. I'd also bet on no turnaround until late in Q4. I believe the "adverse feedback loop" to which Bernanke refers is stronger than the Fed at the moment.

President Buffoon's spearheading of the Democrat NewD irection (down, at Warp 9) isn't helping matters much.

bad

Groovy... the market is up a tad today and O goes on TV tonight.

Where does the market go tomorrow?

bad

Rick, that link brings me back here.

kim

I love it, at Politico: 'A Nation of Santellis'.

The odds of a military coup to restore America to Constitutional government have risen above nil.
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clarice

Thanks for your concern,bad. I am beginning to feel a lot better.

kim

I mean we have suffered a coup by an authoritarian group, the Chicago Way.
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Rick Ballard

Correct Bernanke testimony link

Thanks, Bad.

Danube of Thought

I strongly agree with RickB re the futile gesture. I have a very high credit rating and I'm proud of it and am not inclined to do anything to jeopardize it. In any event it wouldn't benefit anyone at all if I were to go deadbeat for a month.

The WSJ this morning echoes what I've been feeling over the past few weeks, namely that this administration really has no idea at all what it is doing or what it should do. Scary.

Jim Ryan

kim's link was a succinct article on the mess: Terence Corcoran, Financial Post.

Pagar

Rick Ballard, On the chart shown on your 10.01 link, is the figures shown under Housing units with a mortgage, the range of mortgage payment $ per month?

For example the 1st line shows Less than $200
equals 25,783.

Roger Ailes

92 percent of Americans are making mortgage payments?

100 percent of wingnuts are innumerate.

bad

Rick, I see Beranke is beating the Transparency horse.

How long before that equine dies...

kim

Thanks, Jim; it sure points out that all these measures are inadequate short of comprehensive regulatory reform. Throwing a stone down the Bowery to kill a dog on Broadway.
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kim

RA, either you're demonstrating your illiteracy, or you haven't read the comments, where that number was explicated. Innumeracy, indeed.
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Pagar

Soylent Red,
My guess is that the officer will be destroyed by the military bureaucracy. No matter how clean his career has been, they will find things to discredit him to the point he will give up the fight, IMO.

kim

Pagar, I think differently. If the military senses any effort at civilian punishment of this officer for his stand, it raises the chance of a military coup to restore Constitutional government above nil. Here's hoping, anyway.
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Rick Ballard

Actual Subprime Schlub Delinquency Rates

That's in comparison to a total (prime borrowers included) rate of 5.08%.

I'll work out the schlub to toal percentage a little later. I know it will come out to "lots" but I believe I can put a percentage on it.

kim

There are a lot of military officers who are aware of the birth certificate issue. They have an oath to honor also, and, by and large, they are an honorable bunch. It's an ancient tradition.
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kim

To many, honor is far more important than life or career. Look at the fella who killed himself over a mistaken medal. He's not a rare type.

This business about honor is fundamental to the ability to look death in the eye in combat.
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Danube of Thought

Trust me, that officer has no career in front of him.

Rick Ballard

Pagar,

Yes. There are 25,783 (+/-1,536) home owners paying less than $200 per month in monthly mortgage costs. I'm unsure whether that is just principal and interest payments or whether it includes taxes and insurance but my guess is that it is just P&I.

kim

He may have no career, DoT, but he has his honor.

I think it is pitiful that I consider a military coup among the possible resolutions of this catastrophe. The usual standard bearers of our society, a Free Press and an independent judiciary, have fallen down on the job.
=================================

Soylent Red

Pagar and kim:

I tend toward pagar's assessment. Easterling's life just got a whole lot more difficult. Having said that, Easterling is a regular beer-drinking good ol' boy from GA or somewhere, and is not a fool or a crank. If he's doing this, he's thought it through and thinks he can win the fight.

I don't believe this foreshadows any kind of military uprising. In quick conference with others in my OCS class, the consensus is that while we may agree with Easterling in principle, and admire his courage to stand alone and do what he considers to be the right thing, the time for this kind of action was before the people elected Obama (you don't know how sick typing that makes me). Once Obama became CiC (ugh...sick again) the argument becomes one of weighing the partisan politics of the matter against your duty and your oath. Until there is real and specific Constitutional infraction, our job is to obey the bosses' orders. That is why I hesitate to comment too harshly on Obama in public. It's a fine line to walk and easy to slip.

And let's be clear: if it came down to strictly defending the Constitution, Obama's citizenship would be but one of many potential infractions. The amount of strictly extra-Constitutional things the military defends in the 21st Century is really dependent on who you talk to about it. What any individual soldier thinks or believes is irrelevant (outside the voting booth) until the civilian population make the ruling on what they interpret as the Constitution we are to defend.

bad

Canning Geithner and Summers makes a lot more sense. Get Krugman in there. And John Edwards.

Posted by: Brief Episode | Feb 24, 2009 12:01:56 PM

A comment from Tapper's blog.

kim

Nice commentary, Sir.
======================

kim

What? Is Krugman having Edward's baby?
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bad
Houston taxpayers could start footing the bill to help first-time homebuyers pay off debts and improve their credit scores, under a proposal before City Council this week.

The “Credit Score Enhancement Program” will give up to $3,000 in grants to individuals who are trying to qualify for mortgages through the city’s homebuyers assistance program. City officials say some applicants fall short of eligibility by only 10 or 20 points on their credit scores, and paying off some debt balances can quickly improve their numbers.

Isn't this how we got in this mess in the first place?

LUN

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

Canning Geithner and Summers makes a lot more sense. Get Krugman in there. And John Edwards.

Considering the four egos involved that would have to be a rather large can. Canning Krugman's head alone would require an industrial strength plumbers helper.

Wouldn't it be easier to just give them all a jug of hooch and let them pickle themselves instead?

bad

LOL Ignatz

T. Shaw

Kim,

The most important aspect of that officer's protest is that (just maybe) the troops will not fire on us Kulaks when the dear leader decides private sector hold outs need to be destroyed.

All,

Don't pay March, either. Then, begin paying again in May. The penalty will be added to the pay-off balance at the end of the term which will be two months longer.

If the bank gets on you tell them about The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and that you will file a consumer complaint with the federal and state regulators. That costs the bank about $3,000 each.

EFFF THEM!!!

PLUS, don't send in the first quarter estimated taxes or have your W-4 withhoildibngs exemptions increased to the max.

They can't foreclose on everyone and they can't send all taxpayers to jail, either.

Donald Sensing

This idea reminds me of Bluto in "Animal House": "It's time for a truly stupid, futile gesture."

It's not the banks' fault that the government is going to reward bad mortgage holders. The way to revolt against the mortgage bailout is not to refuse to pay our mortgages on time.

It is to refuse to pay our taxes. So here's the deal:

1. Everyone with a mortgage or who rents file for the automatic, three-month extension on filing IRS Form 1040. An extension to file is not an extension to pay, but if a gazillion more people file for extension than have before, that's a message right there.

2. Not pay additional taxes due after withholding? Something to think about.

bad

Insty has this thread linked.

Danube of Thought

That officer must have an odd sense of honor. If he wants to do this kind of thing, let him resign his commission and take off his uniform.

P.S.--there will be no military coup. In order for that to happen, you'd need a substantial number of professional officers who are willing to take part, and you have virtually none at all. There is a great deal of professional pride invested in the idea of accepting the fundamental notion of civilian control.

DebinNC

Please forgive my ignorance, but do Fannie/Freddie handle VA and FHA loans? F/F loans are the only ones eligible for the housing bailouts, right? I can't imagine the military would be excluded, but with the Dems I'm not sure.

Pagar

Thanks Rick, and I agree it has to be P& I only.

Kim, IMO, the subject should be closed, for the sake of all honorable US military members. I'm sorry that I even commented on the subject.

Danube of Thought

DonaldS, the problem with filing the extension is that it gets you nowhere. Along with the extension--which I have had to file every year for more than three decades--you have to send in enough money to cover the tax that will actually be due when you file your return. If you fall short, you're looking at penalties and interest.

Danube of Thought

Another Obama triumph: confidence in progress in the war on terror plummets in the past two weeks. LUN

DebinNC

Alternative to drinking game during tonight's speech: O-Bingo

Soylent Red

DoT:

You seem to have captured the general feeling of everyone I have talked to so far. His motive may be pure, but his execution is all wrong.

Time to drop the subject so as not to further hijack the thread.

Isn't this how we got in this mess in the first place?

bad:

I think this will effectively reduce the necessary credit score to get a mortgage. Just to use round numbers, if you needed a 700 before, and can only get to 680, a subsidy to get you over the hump doesn't really change the behavior that could only get you to 680. Thus, the bank is forced to lend to a 680 with an asterisk.

I truly see no potential plan that doesn't either:

a. screw the responsible home owner who pays his bills

b. disenfranchise the entitlement mobs

And since the entitlement mobs are a large part of Obama's base, I think we can safely guess which way things are going to go. The question is: will the responsible outnumber the entitled come November 2012?

Danube of Thought

It appears to me that Easterling misunderstands the oath he took in a very fundamental way. He swore to defend the consitution "against all enemies, foreign or domestic." The fact that some people question Mr. Obama's eligibility does not make him an enemy. Neither Easterling nor any other officer has some roving mandate seek judicial enforcement of what he thinks the constitution requires.

 Ann

Check this story Out:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_harnden/blog/2009/02/24/how_politics_works_senator_christopher_dodd_and_his_cosy_irish_cottage ">Senator Dodd's Cozy Cottage in Ireland

Danube of Thought

Soylent, I sent my last post in before your latest had reached the site. I agree with you, and I've said all I have to say on this subject.

bad

Soylent, this is an insane plan. The Fed website says Texas is about one percent of foreclosures. Part of that number may be that Texas didn't allow second mortgages until recent years. I don't know.

But the Houston plan is doing exactly what isn't needed -- making homeowners of people not equipped to handle the responsibility.

I'm pessimistic about your last question.

Jim Ryan

An Ayn Rand quote on Limbaugh coupla minutes ago:

One of the methods used by statists to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary.

cathyf
If you fall short, you're looking at penalties and interest.
You might want to check the interest rate. The last time I actually followed the numbers was in the early 90's. I discovered that the "penalty" for underestimating was simply a reasonable interest rate. (It was about 8%, at a time when my brand-new mortgage was 8.25%).

If the government rules that you were attempting to evade taxes, that's totally different, and there are substantial penalties. But if you simply underestimate your taxes then the government loans you the money at a reasonable rate, while if you overestimate then you loan the government money with a zero interest rate.

This is not really a response to Donald, it's more general advice in the "what to do if you don't have the money to pay all your estimated tax payment" category. If you have a choice between paying off a credit card balance and taking the loan out from the government, or paying the full estimate while carrying a 23% credit-card balance, pay the credit card off first and then send what you can as your estimate.

dataGuy

"I think it is pitiful that I consider a military coup among the possible resolutions"

A coup would certainly be change but it is very unlikely to be a "resolution". I'm betting my money on enforcement of the 10th amendment as the best solution to an out of control central government.

Soylent Red

I'm pessimistic about your last question.

I'm not. Once Obama's novelty wears off (which it is, and rapidly) there are going to be a lot of people who will balk at subsidizing the lazy. Welfare reform was super duper popular in the 1990s, and going back to a 1973 model, once people experience it, is going to be the wrong answer.

I predict Obama will elicit a reaction in the majority of the population that will heavily favor a reformist candidate in 2012. We just have to hang on until then.

And if I'm wrong? Well, a month after the election will be the end of the Mayan calendar, so the drinks will be on me. On my credit card.

MayBee

Wow. Here's Lanny Davis on Politico:

Lanny Davis, Attorney and Democratic strategist:

I want him to explain that he considers that he has changed Washington by reaching out to Republicans and continuing to do so - but expects the Democratic leadership in the House and the Senate to do the same not after the legislation is written but before. And he should single out Republican Senator Lindsey Graham who genuinely wants to work with him - but in negotiations room with Democrats when there is give-and-take and compromise, so that legislation can command 70 or 80 votes -- not 60 or 61.

sbw

Hang on until 2010, then nail Congress.

cathyf

The algorithm for calculating credit scores is proprietary, and secret (well the details are secret -- the overall principal is obvious). It is under constant refinement, by very smart people. What should, and will, happen is that the scoring algorithm will either ding people or reward people for participating in these programs, depending upon the history of the behavior of the people participating.

clarice

Soylent, I wish you were here already. I could use thelaughs and I'm sure Duvall is always on the lookout for another tango afficianado. Even Eliades Ochoa can't keep my spirits up much longer.

Danube of Thought

CathyF, I won't quibble with you about the interest rates, but using your example of a 1/4% differential, it seems like a pretty silly way to lodge some sort of protest against the government. Do you think the IRS or the congress would change their ways because of such a protest?

As for credit card debt, it is absolutely the dumbest form of debt to take on, but if you have it you should by all means pay it before you pay the IRS. I sure don't like the long-term chances of anyone who makes a practice of it.

verner

I'll tell you something I'm angry about--the Stanford-Biden link. (LUN)

Thieves and Liars all.

I have someone very close to me who had a very hefty brokerage account with Stanford. No CDs, but we are praying that he'll get his money back.

Knucklehead

Rick Ballard,

(Hello, BTW!) I'd wager this month's mortgage payment that the low number is P&I only. I can't say this is true for all mortgages but the last time I originated one, IF the mortgage was less than something like 75% of the assessed value of the property, then one didn't need to open the escrow account and place the property tax and insurance handling through the mortgage company.

Yet another way My Fellow Schlubs were stupid. We actually thought it preferable to minimize the P&I owed and keep the escrow funds in our own pockets rather than maximizing our debt. What a bunch of rubes.

cathyf

DoT -- not really arguing about the interest, just pointing out that it's interest not interest-and-penalties.

As for making payments, I have always argued that you are better off overpaying -- making that interest-free loan to the government and getting your refund. Given how interest rates are as low as they are, it's a small price to pay to manage your cashflow and help you live within your means.

As for conducting "revolting" activities, I've already decided on my own form of political protest. A self-inking stamper, loaded with red ink, with which I will stamp "OBAMA'S TAX CHEAT" over top of the Secretary of the Treasury signature on every piece of US currency that comes into my possession which has Timothy F Geithner's signature on it.

Simple, straightforward, gets the point across, and does not screw over my fellow Americans.

Soylent Red

As for credit card debt, it is absolutely the dumbest form of debt to take on,

Uh...let's stipulate that to be true unless the end of the Mayan calendar is upon you and the universe is going to end.

In that case? Katy, bar the door and get me another round.

bad

Dodd could adopt the Burris solution before his situation gets worse:

No resignation but announce he won't run for re-election.

Jane

I wonder if O is nervous - or insulated enough to not have a clue that the discontent is rising.

SunnyDay

The American Express deal is being offered to people whose accounts are in good standing. It is not for delinquent accounts, and they are not forgiving any debt.

Paul -Indiana

This is no surprise. Does anyone remember the truthful slip of the tongue when Obama said to 'Joe the Plumber' that he wanted to distribute the wealth. We got just what the lefties voted for, didn't we?

bad

Paul I, exactly

cathyf
As for credit card debt, it is absolutely the dumbest form of debt to take on,
Nah, not even close... There's "rent to own" -- spend $1500 on a $500 TV. And "payday loans" at 80%-90% apr. Or "refund anticipation loans" -- interest there works out to 150%-200% annualized. How about taking money out of your 401K, paying penalties to 40%, in order to pay off your 6% fixed 30-year mortgage.

...and we won't even get into the porkulus bill!

Matt

to more effectively show your displeasure with state and federal spending practices, I would suggest that you maximize your number of dependents in order to reduce withholdings held by government until you file your tax return.

The government spends a lot of this float to remain solvent over the course of the year, and the more of their own money people withhold from the government, the more prudent government may have to be with the funds they do receive.

It's not civil disobedience..it's simply accounting....

Matt

OT, but the HOuse is considring a new law forbidding the private ownership of chimpanzees and other primates....

As Charlton Heston once said They'll pry my chimp away from my cold, dead hands...." or was it "take your stinking hands off me, you damned dirty ape!"?

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

I've been self employed for 25 years and virtually never pay estimated taxes.
The interest the IRS charges is small enough compared to the extra year long paperwork involved in filing and not having the money handy if needed and accruing interest if not being used that it almost never makes sense for me to pay quarterly.

As far as credit scores, my mortgage broker friend told me that credit score requirements have changed very little for most of the banks he works with. (FHA is still in the 580 mimimum range)
The difference is in debt to income ratio, appraisal accuracy, income verification and down payment percentage. And even the down payment has hardly budged for FHA loans.

Steve Adams

I'm in. I like my banker but it's late payment for you in April. Thoreau Rocks!!! - please ruin my credit report-force me to borrow responsibly:)!!

Xanthippas

The odds of a military coup to restore America to Constitutional government have risen above nil.

Fine with me. It'll give us cause to lock up the truly ridiculous, where they can neither blog, comment on a blog, or otherwise pose a threat to intelligent discourse.

Matt

I was reading a book this afternoon and they translated the word palestine from the English to Arabic as Filistine....

which is what the priests used to call us at prep school....

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

It'll give us cause to lock up the truly ridiculous, where they can neither blog, comment on a blog, or otherwise pose a threat to intelligent discourse.

The essence of leftism.

Kim regretfully concludes that the plight of the country is leading us to a potential bad conclusion.
Some dumbass lefty delightedly concludes the plight of the country is a good opportunity to lock up his political opponents.

Pagar

a good opportunity to lock up his political opponents.

That's what leftists do, IR. Look at Stalin, Saddam, Castro, Chavez, any of them. Millions imprisoned, political opposition killed outright, etc.
There is absolutely no hope of holding intelligent discourse with a leftist.
The last campaign should have proven that beyond a doubt.

TCO

JOM:

You wanted the bailouts. You had a chance to fight. And you didn't. Eat the crap sandwich, RINO pussy.

kim

Hah, Ignatz, I was wondering where in Constitutional government it says you can lock up the ridiculous.

TCO, you need a new refrain. Any mistakes Bush made are paling into insignificance compared to Obama's mistakes. Re-orient, and try to keep up.
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