There Must Be Some Kind Of Way Out Of Here

Obama presents his mortgage relief proposal - Times, White House release.  This attempt to snag a free lunch is pleasantly optimistic:

A second major component of Mr. Obama’s plan is aimed at most homeowners who are not behind on their payments, but whose homes may be worth less than the outstanding amount on their mortgage or are no longer worth enough that the homeowners have enough equity to refinance. It could also assuage homeowners who are angry that seemingly irresponsible neighbors are being rescued.

For this group, Mr. Obama’s plan would make it much easier to refinance their homes and take advantage of the extremely low interest rates now available.

The plan would apply to people with fairly traditional loans that are owned or guaranteed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Anybody with such a mortgage would be allowed to refinance at today’s rates, which are about 5 percent, without needing a 20 percent down payment.

Normally, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac require that such borrowers pay private mortgage insurance, which can add hundreds of dollars to a monthly payment. In effect, the government would be taking on the added risk, at no charge, that comes from lending to people with no financial stake in their house.

A loan against 80% of the current value of a house is less risky than a loan against 100% of the value of that house and yes, less risky loans generally carry a lower rate.  Obama's proposal is that instead of a refinancing in which the owner gets a lower rate in exchange for a less risky loan, the owner gets a lower rate in exchange for nothing.  That's a good deal for the folks who get it but maybe not such a great deal for the people paying for it, namely, the rest of us.

[END OF THREAD]

Comments

[kim]

Empty, foolish promises, from the Flim Flam Man.
=======================================

[BobM]

Look at this from the Chicago Floor:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1039849853

[Danube of Thought]

Check Drudge right now. Also, don't miss the current Rove article.

These clowns don't know what the hell they're doing.

[kim]

The more this goes on, the more people are going to want to see his birth certificate. It's a Deus ex Machina, folks.
==================================

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Of course, it was the government believing it knew better than the mortgage lending industry, who (and on what terms) should get home loans that caused the problem in the first place.

Stan Liebowitz, the long version of The Boston Fed paper and its aftermath.

[kim]

Maybe Sebelius is being brought in because she actually has executive experience. Who else in this administration has it?

Joking.
=======

[kim]

Sign the 180, er, uh, Show me the Cert!
=======================================

[kim]

It's about time to start beating the 'Obama is AWOL' drum.
=========================================

[Danube of Thought]

Death Knell: Jimmy Carter just announced that he has "full confidence" in the Obama stimulus plan.

And because the "end of thread" thing doesn't work for me, let me ask the off-topic question I asked on the thread where it was on-topic: Any reason, legally or morally, why a state can't make it a crime to father a child out of wedlock?

[Jane]

It seems a bit hard to manage DOT - what would be the penalty - forced marriage?

[bad]

TM, tsk, tsk, you just can't leave those music references alone, can you.

[Walter]

Griswald v. Connecticutt set the stage for married folks.

& Roe opened it for everyone else.

No state may criminalize the killing of unborn children because the right to control one's fecundity trumps the state's interest in preserving [potential] life. How, then, could that right be less important than the state's interest in raising well-brought-up children?

A less flip answer: Governmental actions affecting family life are subject to strict scrutiny. [For now, lets just say that family life includes how how you raise your children, whether or not you regulate conception during coitus, and even with whom you engage in coitus.]

Your proposed law passes the rational basis test. Even though morality is no longer an acceptable basis for legislation, the negative affect on children raised in broken households has been shown in studies.

Intermediate scrutiny is a balancing test. Your call as to how it goes.

Strict scrutiny requires, among other things, no less restrictive alternatives. It would be tough to demonstrate that having a piece of paper would give children any more benefits than they receive via child support laws.

[Mom]

Hey, why make fathering a child out of wedlock a crime? Simply require every father, even a sperm donor, to be identified at birth (DNA test if necessary) and, unless/until child is raised by married biofather and mother or legally adopted by another married couple, biofather is legally responsible for 50% of child's financial needs up to the age of 21.

[hit and run]

Walter, very nice to see you.

[Porchlight]

TM, tsk, tsk, you just can't leave those music references alone, can you.

bad, in this case it's just so incredibly apt:

...Said the joker to the thief
There's too much confusion
I can't get no relief
Businessmen they drink my wine
Ploughmen dig my earth
Nobody along the line
knows what any of it is worth

The whole song, really. What's really depressing is that Dylan probably loves The One.

[Thomas Collins]

DOT, couldn't Lawrence v. Texas arguably be read to restrict any state action to impede the . . . ahem . . . "fathering" activity as long as the women consented to engaging in the activity? So that refusing to pay child support could be criminalized, but not the actual "fathering."

I'm not saying, by the way, that I think Lawrence v. Texas is anything but naked (probably not an apt word choice in this context) judicial aggression. But it is on the books and it hasn't been overturned.

[matt]

the markets are laughing at Obama; high school kids are having their doubts...across the land there is great unease....

[glasater]

Zero is speaking in Canada and the market continues down.

[cathyf]

I'm wondering if there is some way to exploit the fact that no one has read the bill...

Can we present ourselves and say, "Hi, we're the ACME Group and the and the bill says we are to get $100million." And the government says, "There's no ACME Group in the bill!" And we say, "Yes there was." And they say, "No there wasn't." And we say, "Yes there was." And they say, "No there wasn't." Etc.

Since no one read the bill that was passed, how can they prove that the Senate and the House passed the same bill, and that the president signed it? Let alone whether any particular clause was or was not in the bill when it passed? (Hey, you don't have to be a democrat to play the "depends on the meaning of 'is'" game...)

[Bob Kunz]

It looks like there is an hypothesis being tested here: if you ignore the law of economic reality, it will go away.

Or how about: sure, politics couldn't trump economics for the CCCP, but that was then.

What is funny here is that the president's been campaigning for so long he can't refrain from it. So DC is going up for grabs while he is back on the campaign trail. Certainly I would prefer adoring throngs to Reid Pelosi and Assoc.

[Jane]

I'm In Cathy! It certainly isn't any more amateur than what the president is doing.

[Buford Gooch]

My house is fully paid for. Do I get a rebate?

[LindaK]

How long will it take Obama to destroy the economy? The mortgage relief plan shows profound lack of understanding of the markets and mortgage finance. First, housing is down all over, but the worst carnage is concentrated in four states and you know where they are. Second, picking and chosing so called "deserving" mortgage deadbeats isn't going to alieviate the problem of declining house prices. Even if you get refinancing help your situation is worsened if the undeserving homeowner/speculator gets foreclosed or sells at a rockbottom price. And third, most of the problem in these areas is that people overpaid for homes they couldn't afford. Any econmic stress, like job loss or pay cut, is a disaster, because there's no savings buffer and no home equity buffer. But, hey, at least these folks didn't borrom in Swissies when their paychecks are in forints.

Is it my imagination or is this administration melting, melting...

[LindaK]

"homeowner/speculator down the street" I meant to write.

[narciso]

Well right about now, the Stone's "Gimme Shelter" serves a multiplicity of meanings. No the laws of economics, much like the laws of thermodynamics can't be really be ignored. And that's a fundamental problem
with this plan, if contracts don't mean anything, if words don't mean anything; than we're in a bigger hole than this economic brouhaha. so goes Comrade Ogilvy
and the Malabar front

[LindaK]

borrow not borrom @#$%%^&

[Appalled]

DOT:

The problem, DOT, is that abortion on demand is legal and such a law would cause men (since you use the word father -- I imagine you are aiming your law at them) to be pretty brutal towards their women about making sure they get one. In any event, since "fathering" may not be consenual, even if the sexual conduct was ("She told me she was on the pill!"), there might be an equal protection concern here.

Michael Collins:

The state was found not to have an interest in restricting sodomy. I think you could distingusih lawrence on the grounds there is a compelling state interest in preventing illegal births.

Intereting topic, DOT, and far less depressing than most of the available topics these days. (There's a certain grim humor to the Burris situation, and the stimulus package does bring to mind Hieronymous Bosch with respect to its execution.)

[Pagar]

Typepad just said I couldn't post a link showing AP saying (Kinda)bad things about Democrats.

However, you can see the link by going to the current Drudge page and looking 2 lines beneath the picture of the Chimp.

The article starts with the words: AP: Democrats---.

I am attempting to find out if this is the 1st time AP has ever said anything (Kinda) of bad about Democrats in my lifetime.

[Jane]

ACORN is organizing protests and telling people to refuse to leave their forclosed homes.

What say you Mr. President?

[jimmyk]

What's really depressing is that Dylan probably loves The One.

Not clear. I recall an article last year on Dylan that pointed out that he's always disappointed the moonbats by being very circumspect about his politics.

This is the closest he came to supporting Obama, but it's really conspicuously bland, even though Huffpo had the chutzpah to call it a "ringing endorsement":

“Well, you know right now America is in a state of upheaval,” he says. “Poverty is demoralising. You can't expect people to have the virtue of purity when they are poor. But we've got this guy out there now who is redefining the nature of politics from the ground up...Barack Obama. He's redefining what a politician is, so we'll have to see how things play out. Am I hopeful? Yes, I'm hopeful that things might change. Some things are going to have to.” He offers a parting handshake. “You should always take the best from the past, leave the worst back there and go forward into the future,” he notes as the door closes between us.

LUN

[Porchlight]

Thanks, jimmyk. That's a reasonably positive statement from Dylan, but it's also true that he doesn't let the lefties use him to further their ends. I think he learned that lesson early on when the folkies kicked him out of the club.

[Amused bystander]

Isn't that sort of like saying that flunking out of 1st year calculus is "redefining what mathematics is"?

[Porchlight]

So in regards to Obama's plan, will the people who are behind on payments be means tested? Or will the government just take their word for it on why they're behind?

What if they hold multiple FM/FM mortgages and are behind on the payments for one property, but not on the other(s)? Do they get to refinance one, or all of them? If the former, do they get to pick which one?

[Pagar]

I queried Yahoo, asking if AP has ever said anything bad about Democrats before?

They checked 9,390,000 articles and the answer is NO.

[Walter]

Thanks Hit.

It's good to visit the real world every once in a while.

I can't help but think that had I wanted to teach accounting I would have gone into academia. On the other hand, if everyone knew what to do and did it well, I'd have to find something else to do.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

So in regards to Obama's plan, will the people who are behind on payments be means tested?

Yes. If they have one of those horizon-gazing Comrade Obama posters on their wall Barry 'means' to give them your money.

[Will]

Someone is going to figure out how to "game" this thing where they lower payments with government help, get a lower interest rate, AND pull cash out of the refinance.

Any tax consequences in any of this.

[Thomas Collins]

Perhaps they would distinguish Lawrence, Appalled. I tend to think that if SCOTUS really meant what it said in Lawrence, criminalizing male sexual conduct with a consensual female resulting in unwed fatherhood (my oh my how I have become so politically correct and wordy; when I was young I was more candid and pithy, and would have said "knocking her up":-))) would not pass constitutional muster. Lawrence has some pretty expansive language.

Although the laws involved in Bowers and here purport to do no more than prohibit a particular sexual act, their penalties and purposes have more far-reaching consequences, touching upon the most private human conduct, sexual behavior, and in the most private of places, the home. They seek to control a personal relationship that, whether or not entitled to formal recognition in the law, is within the liberty of persons to choose without being punished as criminals.

I agree that the compelling state interest argument would be made by the state actor. However, I think a court might conclude that less restrictive means existed for preventing out of wedlock births (such as birth control education programs).

I believe the LUN has the entire Lawrence case, although it doesn't appear to be an official SCOTUS site.

[LindaK]

So in regards to Obama's plan, will the people who are behind on payments be means tested?

I think that the ACORN people will be doing the credit checks and refis for the lucky homeowners.

[Captain Hate]

That's a reasonably positive statement from Dylan, but it's also true that he doesn't let the lefties use him to further their ends. I think he learned that lesson early on when the folkies kicked him out of the club.

Ah yes, the boring tripe of the folkies; a bunch of Stalinist wanks that sit around listening to retro crap like the Weavers. They were expecting Dylan to be one of their useful fools but he had more going on upstairs than to buy into "socialist realism West".

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

Ah yes, the boring tripe of the folkies;

As the libertarian rockers Cracker succinctly put it a few years back;

"What the world needs now is another folk singer like I need a hole in my head."

[Sue]

The hits just keep on coming. Drudge is reporting that the UN is reporting that Iran has enough uranium for nukes. Welcome to the nightmare.

[Georg Felis]

Will this "gift" to the irresponsible people who are upside down on ginormous mortages be properly treated as income on the recepient's taxes or removed from their welfare checks?

I didn't think so.

[Porchlight]

Hey man, like, Pete Seeger was not a Stalinist, man. He was only in CPUSA for like a minute when he was twenty. I saw it on a PBS documentary, it's totally true.

[clarice]

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm packing and getting ready to join Po's anti-patriarchal,feminist, alternative energy and organic vegan craft collective.

[Thomas Collins]

May I join, clarice? I add mushrooms, peppers and onions to my meat sauce. That's vegan, isn't it?

[clarice]

That's the way I read the rules, TC..But if we don't like them we can always change them to our liking--announce we'll give everyone a chance to read the amendations and 48 hours to consider the changes, then rush them thru w/o letting anyone read them. It's the (new)American way.

[Sue]

A second major component of Mr. Obama’s plan is aimed at most homeowners who are not behind on their payments, but whose homes may be worth less than the outstanding amount on their mortgage or are no longer worth enough that the homeowners have enough equity to refinance. It could also assuage homeowners who are angry that seemingly irresponsible neighbors are being rescued.

See, this is the rub. I don't want to sell my home. I don't want to refinance my home. I don't care if its value is less now than it was a year ago. Lower property taxes would be nice for a year or two. Anyway you look at it, I'm screwed. I don't fit into any of the categories that my president is trying to "help".

[Fresh Air]

Porchlight--

The confusion is obvious. The only question is whether Barry is the Joker or the Thief. The song I hear in my head is Hendrix's. Can't even bring my brain to dredge up the Dylan version.

[Danube of Thought]

Walter: I didn't want to be understood as proposing legislation to enforce morality; I was wondering whether (apart from legalities) there is a moral reason not to enact such legislation. I don't see this as an interference with a right to control one's fecundity; it's simply a sensible and reasonable obligation imposed on the father in return for his use of the mother's...well, fecundity, and would encourage him to take protective measures if the fecundity is not his principal motive.

As for less restricitive alternatives, that's a qualifier that I have never understood, and it seemed to be the permanent escape hatch for Sandra Day O'Connor. In this instance, the piece of paper, while certainly less restrictive than a criminal penalty, doesn't seem to be an alternative. For one thing, once the dude marries her, he may be deterred to some extent from doing the same thing again with another woman, including the deterrence provided by existing bigamy laws. Who knows, having actually become a husband as well as a father, he might even take his responsibility seriously, and that responsibility involves something more than mere financial support for the child.

TC: I haven't read Lawrence in a long time, but my law would not "restrict" the fathering activity so much as it would encourage the responsible carrying on of that activity.

Appalled: Brutality might be a concern, but existing laws provide quite adequately for men who brutalize women. (They "privde" adequately, which is different from saying that the alwaus deter that activity.) But the law requiring that no one be sent to jail without evidence that he has committed a crime encourages brutality against witnesses; we still hold to the requirement.

As for equal protection, I think the law could be expressly made applicable to the lesbian who impregnated her lover with a turkey baster. Recall that the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges.

Jane, I deliberately left out any mention of appropriate penalties, wondering what others might propose. Three hundred sixty-four nights in a cell with Jamal might be a nice start for first-time offenders.

Thanks for all your inputs. No chance in hell we'll ever see any such law, for a million reasons.

[Danube of Thought]

*povide*
*always*

(I can't use the Preview option without losing the whole thing.)

[ben]

"Jimmy Carter just announced that he has "full confidence" in the Obama stimulus plan."

Ok, I am convinced now! I am sure the endorsement of "Jimmah Misery Index Carter" was what many fence sitters were waiting for.

[Sue]

I wonder how long it will be before Obama tells us to do the very thing Bush was ridiculed for? Go shopping.

[Porchlight]

Fresh Air, I hear Hendrix' version, too. My take: Obama is the Thief, and the Joker is Mr. Average American who voted for him and is confused and looking for (mortgage) relief.

[RichatUF]

Porchlight-

Obama has that some of that relief covered with his new tax cut. Those jokers can get their mellow and a bag of deritoes with that extra $13 every pay check.

[Danube of Thought]

Remember when candidate Jimmy Carter described Bob Dylan as his "close personal friend?" (He also described himself as a "nuclear physicist," which was simply rank falsehood.)

[hit and run]

Ignatz:
Yes. If they have one of those horizon-gazing Comrade Obama posters on their wall Barry 'means' to give them your money.

Awesome, http://thevimh.blogspot.com/2009/02/president-opud.html>so I'm golden.

[Danube of Thought]

A share of New York Times stock now costs less than a copy of the Sunday New York Times.

[hit and run]

How many bird cages can you line with a share of NYT stock?

[Ranger]

A share of New York Times stock now costs less than a copy of the Sunday New York Times.

Posted by: Danube of Thought | February 19, 2009 at 07:23 PM

And they've suspended dividends because they are so short of cash... Just a matter of time now... I will laugh my head off when they finally go under.

[bgates]

I don't fit into any of the categories that my president is trying to "help".

I had hopes, since the Democrats are famously the party of the lowest rung of the economic ladder. I thought that meant "renter"; turns out it means "guy who got a half million dollar mortgage he couldn't possibly afford". Well, I was smart enough to not buy into the bubble and saddle myself with unsustainable debt, but I wasn't smart enough to buy into the bubble and saddle myself with unsustainable debt from which the government would save me.

[Captain Hate]

Jimmy "Malaise" Carter once was very impressed by a solo performance by pianist Cecil Taylor and ran after him to talk about it but CT evidently wasn't interested in discussing it. Kind of like Not-at-Albright running after Arafat only not in high heels, at least that I know of.

I always think of Hendrix's version of "All Along the Watchtower" whenever somebody mentions the song; it may have been the best thing he ever did.

[boris]

"No reason to get excited ..."

The thief he kindly spoke,

"There are many here among us

Who think that life is but a joke.

But you and I, we've been through that,

And this is not our fate.

So let us not talk falsely now,

The hour is getting late"

Meaning: I (Boris, Jimi, Dylan) am the thief. You are all jokers in need of a chill pill.

Obama is the prince in the watchtower as we ride in with the wind. Who wants to be the wild cat?

[Sue]

I will laugh my head off when they finally go under.

Posted by: Ranger | February 19, 2009 at 07:54 PM

Will you still be laughing when they use our tax dollars to bail them out? ::sigh::

[centralcal]

SukieTawdry who comments here on occasion, made the "Commentary of the Day" at Contentions blog.

LUN

[Extraneus]

Isn't that sort of like saying that flunking out of 1st year calculus is "redefining what mathematics is"?

Heh. Wouldn't it be worthwhile to discover Obama's SAT scores and go through his transcripts like they did with Bush before someone showed how much better his were than The Inventor of The Internet's? Didn't hear much about them after that.

[Sue]

In the criminal investigation that lead to the settlement, the Justice Department had been looking at some 19,000 wealthy Americans with a total of $20 billion in assets who may have evaded $300 million a year in federal taxes through UBS’s undeclared offshore private banking services.

God, I hope they are democrats.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/20/business/worldbusiness/20ubs.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1235084414-RBbVDgzSaixxNaeu6P1i9w>Source

[Ranger]

Will you still be laughing when they use our tax dollars to bail them out? ::sigh::

Posted by: Sue | February 19, 2009 at 07:59 PM

Of course not. But, I am begining to think the Porkulus was a pyric victory of Obama and pals. It has so angered the productive class, that there is real bitterness now at the bailing out of the losers. This mortgage "plan" is stoking that anger. The next round of auto bailouts is stoking that anger. Spending taxpayers money to bail out a rag like the NYT will stoke it further.

[Sue]

Ranger,

I said that tongue-in-cheeky. But I suspect they are too large to fail. Lots of things are too large to fail nowadays. Except for us honest taxpayers.

[Extraneus]

The hits keep coming.

Panetta Vows Honesty as CIA Director

Who "vows honesty" besides liars? Serioulsy, I'm being honest about that.

[Extraneus]

So can I build an extension and get a break on a re-fi to cover it? I need a West Wing bad.

[jimmyk]

But, I am begining to think the Porkulus was a pyric victory of Obama and pals.

That's something to hope for. It is strange: Usually the Democrats' business plan is to take from the few (the 5 percent that pay over 60 percent of the taxes) and give to the many. Here it seems they are taking from the many and giving to the few. That doesn't seem to be a recipe for success in 2010.

[Extraneus]

Michael Bloomberg seems worried that the few might be considering St. Jane's these days.

[Danube of Thought]

Somebody gimme some help here on this thing about Bill Moyers checking on possible gay people in the LBJ administration. Today he says his "memory is vague" on the matter, but that he may have been looking into questions that J. Edgar Hoover had posed.

I very distinctly recall, perhaps ten years ago, that it was revealed that Moyers had been JBJ's appointed sleuth to seek out and expel homosexuals following the Walter Jenkins scandal, and that Moyers had acknowledged his role and expressed regret about it. Anybody else remember that?

[bad]

Check out The Atlantic's White House version of the RAT Board kerfuffle. LUN

[Danube of Thought]

OK--having Googled after writing, I discover that Bob Novak wrote this on Decmeber 1, 2005:

"When President Johnson’s aide Walter Jenkins was arrested for homosexual conduct in a men’s room during the 1964 campaign, Silberman said, LBJ aide Bill Moyers directed Hoover to find similar conduct on Barry Goldwater’s staff. 'Moyers’ memo to the FBI was in one of the files,' he continued. An “outraged” Moyers telephoned Silberman, he said, to assert that the memo was 'phony.' 'Taken aback,' said Silberman, he offered an investigation to publicly exonerate Moyers. 'There was a pause on the line, and then he (Moyers) said, ‘"I was very young. How will I explain this to my children?"’ '"Silberman’s account of our conversation is at odds with mine,”' Moyers told me when I asked for comment."

Silberman is Judge Lawrence Silberman.

[Jane]

My goodness, how much hypocrisy will the people take? The IRS AKA Geithner is doing an investigation into tax fraud. I mean please.

[Extraneus]

Moyers always was a scumbag, but that Daschle soft-spoken act really does go a long way.

I'm disappointed to read about that, though, and concerned that his history might have a negative effect on his children's image of him.

[matt]

who wants an honest CIA director anyway? Their job is to mislead, misdirect, and bamboozle our nations enemies.....and if they could just figure out who those enemies are and how to extract useful information, instead of fighting turf wars with everyone else, that would help too.....

[Pofarmer]

A second major component of Mr. Obama’s plan is aimed at most homeowners who are not behind on their payments, but whose homes may be worth less than the outstanding amount on their mortgage or are no longer worth enough that the homeowners have enough equity to refinance

In my world, that's called a "lesson".

Tough shit, better luck next time.

[glasater]

He did not live long enough:

America's Greatest Depression Fighter

[Pofarmer]

Except for us honest taxpayers.

I'd find a way to stay honest and cut out on the taxpaying part wherever possible.

[cathyf]

Will this "gift" to the irresponsible people who are upside down on ginormous mortages be properly treated as income on the recepient's taxes or removed from their welfare checks?

I didn't think so.

In fact it is, which is clearly wrong. It should be subtracted from the basis of the house, so that capital gains might be taxed whenever (if ever) they are realized.

[cathyf]

You know, I think I might argue for a special bailout for those who got mortgages through ACORN. I mean imagine the scam:

-- Scummy slumlord (Rezko anyone?) owns a bunch of run-down houses in the 'hood.

-- ACORN cons a bunch of poor people into buying the houses at wildly inflated prices, talking them into the wonders of ownership, and that the property values will go up, and that they can refinance don't worry, blah blah blah.

-- Every time ACORN cons some poor family into taking out a $60,000 mortgage on a $30,000 house, they get the $600 origination fee, plus another $1000 in appraisal (which, of course, ACORN ensured came up to $60,000), title search, lawyers fees, and other assorted closing costs.

-- The slumlord gets $30,000.

-- ACORN also gets whatever the slumlord kicks back to them. The slumlord gets a charitable tax deduction for giving ACORN the kickback.

Gee -- that $2billion for ACORN in the porkulus package is a tempting target -- any sleazy class-action specialists wanna file a class-action lawsuit on behalf of everybody who took a loan out with ACORN's help?

[clarice]

DoT, That's how I remembered it. But Moyers' memory unlike the WH staffers who testified in the Libby case, seems to have grown more vague with time.

HIT, That is damned outstanding..Fantastico!

[cathyf]

-- The slumlord gets $30,000.

OK -- that didn't quite come out what I meant -- the slumlord gets $60,000 for something only worth $30,000.

[clarice]

Good for Sukie. I always think her somments are first rate. Holder's comments were utterly out of line I think..especially coming from a man too chicken to tell Clinton the FALN and Rich pardons were wrong.

[clarice]

cathyf:"any sleazy class-action specialists wanna file a class-action lawsuit on behalf of everybody who took a loan out with ACORN's help?"
Gee, cathy. When you put it that way..............

[Neo]

Last week Giulio Tremonti, Italy’s finance minister and Mr. Geithner’s host for the weekend, gave a tart review of the Obama administration’s stimulus in a local newspaper here.

“If the problem is an excess of debt, the cure is not adding more debt, whether that debt is public or private,” he wrote in the Corriere della Sera

How did Obama do and pass a "stimulus" bill without first consulting with our (obviously smarter) European allies. There goes the image of America down the toilet due to unilateral cowboy actions of an inexperienced POTUS.

[Extraneus]

DoT, not sure if you saw this or if it's a coincidence. (HotAir piece on Moyers' gay baiting.)

[centralcal]

Well, Clarice I like chicken alot, so I would not denigrate such a fine culinary bird and would characterize Mr. Holder as the real coward! He didn't have the cajones to stand up to stopping the Rich pardon (among several issues). And, now, knowing he is not thought of as very ethical, he tries to deflect by calling everybody else names. So typical of the weak and namby pamby.

[Jane]

Will this "gift" to the irresponsible people who are upside down on ginormous mortages be properly treated as income on the recepient's taxes or removed from their welfare checks?

Boy that's the question of the day.

[PD]

Who "vows honesty" besides liars?

Exactly. The preface to a remark that defeats the remark.

"To be honest with you, ..." - what, normally you're dishonest?

"To be frank, ..." - what, you're normally deceitful?

And have you noticed how often Mr. Press Secretary Gibbs answers questions about Obama's policies using this template: "The President understands that ... ", leading me to wonder why it's necessary to emphasize that the Obama understands something, unless he doesn't.

[Extraneus]

Holder only has his job because American whites aren't generally racists.

I don't doubt that he and his boss are, though.

[PD]

And of course the now classic, "As I have always clearly said ...", the sure tip-off that incomprehensible or contradictory gibberish is to follow.

[PD]

re: Holder, Babalu blog has a nice takedown, which also via photo provides us with a nice reminder of Mr. Courageous' handling of the Elian Gonzalez affair.

[Sue]

Tony Danza is a nut too? Sheesh. Nothing is sacred.

[Extraneus]

...why it's necessary to emphasize that the Obama understands something, unless he doesn't.

He understands calculus, too. Just needs a teleprompter for exams.

[Sue]

Danza says "why call me a liberal, I'm a man with a brain". And then says "you guys have all the slogans" referring to conservatives. Yeah. But don't call Danza a liberal.

[PD]

Apparently the WH staff is thinking about installing a monitor into O's podium for when he does press conferences, to feed him information such as who's sitting where.

That is so unbelievably pathetic. Why doesn't he, like, learn their names? Sheesh.

Can you imagine him as a teacher in a classroom? Having to learn the roster of the pupils might be overload.