A Compelling Message Of Personal Responsibility

Here is White House press flack Robert Gibbs explaining Obama's belated posturing on the AIG bonuses:

Gibbs said the tough talk from Obama and other administration officials was aimed in part at pressuring bonus recipients to turn them down. Anyone accepting the money should "think long and hard" about whether keeping it was appropriate "given the performance of the company," he said.

Right.  This is from the Administration that appointed tax cheat Tim Geithner to head the Treasury, inspired no doubt by his marvelous success at the NY Fed, where he had regulatory responsibility for Citigroup.  Not only did Geithner cash his paychecks, he cheated on the taxes (in his IMF days) - maybe they should think long and hard about that before lecturing anyone else.

And do keep in mind - this is not an "incentive" bonus pool, it is a "retention" bonus pool.  In the spring of 2008, after AIG eased Joe Cassano to one side and realized he had presided over a train wreck, they had a serious question about whether they should remain in the derivatives business and how they might keep a derivatives team together.  Rather than watch as everyone drifted to other firms they guaranteed a bonus pool  (it was generally obvious that earnings wold not justify bonuses in 2008).

Furthermore, the Feds are providing more support to the AIG securities lending business than to the credit derivatives business, so the AIG-FP people can make the case that they are being used as a scapegoat by insurance regulators who would rather point the finger elsewhere [the WSJ notes this as well].  In this gambit the insurance commissioners will be aided and abetted by everyone who believes that the answer to any problem is more regulation.

Well.  Maybe the decision in March 2008 to keep this unit together was a mistake; maybe the people who chose to stay should have been urged to leave.  But most of the people at AIG-FP were not involved in credit default swaps and do engage in other profitable activities.  And here we are.

LET"S HEAR IT FROM THE MAN:  Here is Obama himself:

WASHINGTON – Joining a wave of public anger, President Barack Obama blistered insurance giant AIG for "recklessness and greed" Monday and pledged to try to block it from handing its executives $165 million in bonuses after taking billions in federal bailout money. "How do they justify this outrage to the taxpayers who are keeping the company afloat?" Obama asked. "This isn't just a matter of dollars and cents. It's about our fundamental values."

It's about our fundamental values?  Which ones?  Surely not "a deal is a deal."  These bonuses have been quietly kicked around for a while ($55 million was paid on this plan in December - did everyone at Treasury forget?), so I guess the fundamental value in play with Obama is "When the crowd stands up and boos its time to stand up and boo."  Yeah, that's leadership.

IF WE'RE STUPID ENOUGH TO TAKE OBAMA SERIOUSLY WE ARE STUPID ENOUGH TO TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY:

Marc Ambinder reports on an elegant "solution" to the AIG bonus debacle:

I'm hearing that....The Department of the Treasury is looking at ways to simply reduce the amount of money it's lending to AIG; they'd start with the latest $30 billion line of credit and subtract the value of the bonuses paid.

I don't want to stand in the way of the mighty PR machine that will be explaining why this move by Geithner and Obama saves the day, so let me just applaud and urge them to think even bigger.  Since the premise of this proposed solution is that are just tossing money at AIG without regard to their actual payment obligations, maybe Obama and Geithner would like to save us weary taxpayers a couple of billion by reducing the loans to AIG by even more.  Or hey, cancel the full $30 billion credit line and save us the whole installment!  That was easy!

If skeptics grumble that eventually we will need to lend AIG the money so they can meet their payments, well - maybe we can claim $30 billion saved this week, then quietly lend them $30 billion next week when the public's attention is elsewhere.  There you go.

But either Treasury needs to explain why they are lending money to AIG which they don't need, or they will eventually have to lend that money to AIG, regardless of their current PR problem.

WHO BROKE AIG:  The WSJ picks up the story:

AIG's Financial Products unit has been overseen for years by an SEC-approved monitor. And AIG didn't just make disastrous bets on housing using those infamous credit default swaps. AIG made the same stupid bets on housing using money in its securities lending program, which was heavily regulated at the state level. State, foreign and various U.S. federal regulators were all looking over AIG's shoulder and approving the bad housing bets.

[end of AIG problem]

Comments

[kim]

Yeah, demagoguery. At which this administration excells. Hope, and change.
==========================================

[BumperStickerist]

Point of information/rumor -

apparently the bonus checks have already been mailed ..

... and ...

most of the checks are being sent to non-US citizens.

... so ...

the question is whether this act of generosity by the US Government will further improve our standing in the International Community or if the White House and Congress will be perceived as a gang of easily deceived naive saps

[TCO]

Well if Bush and the RINOs had just let the MARKET ACT instead of sending middle class taxpayer dollars to bail out a hedge fund, we woujldn't even be having the discussion.

[hit and run]

Whatever Gibbs is getting paid, he should "think long and hard" about whether keeping it was appropriate "given the performance of the WH press office,"

[kim]

Can Geithner, Treasury, and Obama be countersued for interference in a lawful contract?
======================================

[kim]

You don't know, TCO, what would have happened had the market acted in September, so your part of the discussion is senseless.
========================

[PD]

The new antiphonal chorus:

President: This is a corporation that finds itself in financial distress due to recklessness and greed!

AIG execs (expected response): Don' beat us, Massa!

President: I mean, how do they justify this outrage to the taxpayers who are keeping the company afloat!?

AIG execs (expected response): Don' beat us, Massa!

President: I've asked Secretary Geithner to ... pursue every single legal avenue to block these bonuses and make the American taxpayers whole!!!

AIG execs (expected response): Don' beat us, Massa!

(teleprompter breaks. Execs breathe sigh of relief in unison.)

AIG exec (one whispers to another): Man, I though he would be Allah; instead, he turned out to be one of the Cee Cipher Powers! Bummer. Pass me some of that equality, quick.

[Extraneus]

Speaking of teleprompters, I heard a little of Rush today, and he was on point.

President Obama's Teleprompter Tells Him to be Positive on Economy

[matt]

it was government policy at the time and Bush released some of those funds at the request of Obama, as I recall. Any confidential agreements or plans Paulson made seem to have been thrown out the window on January 20. Obama is going to get a good education in contract law out of this. The whole thing will probably end up in court.

When the funds were transferred there were agreements in place. To threaten to renege on these agreements as Obama is doing now will concern anyone doing business with the U.S. government or even the corporations involved, especially investors. This is another example of Obama's economic tin ear.

[DebinNC]

Gates asked to explain the difference between "sound" and "strong": LUN

He's getting delightfully close to depends on the definition of "is" territory.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Well if Bush and the RINOs had just let the MARKET ACT instead of sending middle class taxpayer dollars to bail out a hedge fund, we woujldn't even be having the discussion.

I'm not sure any of those words mean what you think they mean.

Including articles and prepositions.

[Ranger]

And in other news, President Obama has decided that veterans should show personal responsibility by paying for treatment for the wounds they suffered on active duty by obtaining private insurace to cover their treatment after they leave the service. http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20090316/pl_usnw/the_american_legion_strongly_opposed_to_president_s_plan_to_charge_wounded_heroes_for_treatment>The veterans are not amused.

The leader of the nation's largest veterans organization says he is "deeply disappointed and concerned" after a meeting with President Obama today to discuss a proposal to force private insurance companies to pay for the treatment of military veterans who have suffered service-connected disabilities and injuries. The Obama administration recently revealed a plan to require private insurance carriers to reimburse the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) in such cases.

[Jane]

Can Geithner, Treasury, and Obama be countersued for interference in a lawful contract?

The consequences of the Government interfering with a private contract are breathtaking. You may as well just close up private enterprise and go home. Who will contract for anything anymore knowing that no contract is binding if the Barack Obama or barney Frank don't agree with it.

The most amazing part is that this is a result of government not doing its homework. They had every opportunity to make the money contingent on renegotiating the contracts.

This is simply a polling decision. Business be damned.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Can Geithner, Treasury, and Obama be countersued for interference in a lawful contract?

I doubt it, because of sovereign immunity. But remember Obama just said Geithner should investigate what he can do to make them not award the retention bonuses. I still suspect that, like, say, the prohibition on using lobbyists and the revocation of the Executive Order on stem cell research, we'll find that this will expire as soon as the news cycle passes.

[hit and run]

Deb:
Gates asked to explain the difference between "sound" and "strong"

Oops, Deb...Gates = Gibbs. Gates should be proud to cash his paycheck, he's definitely earned it. And while I would not http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/20083.html>go all Grassley on Gibbs (h/t bad in the 22nd Book thread), he most definitely hasn't earned his pay, and should definitely do the whole "think long and hard" thing before cashing his paycheck.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Jane, given that Congress can't abrogate contracts under the Constitution, isn't it more likely that it's sound and fury signifying nothing?

[Lesley]

Yup, let's demonize AIG and pay no attention to our congress critters as they attempt to deflect the spotlight off their own culpable selves.

Or, as they say over at Protein Wisdom wrt blame shifting/incompetence:

LOOK, BUNNIES!!!!

The proles always fall for it.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

By the way, did you notice that this purported plan to make private insurance carriers reimburse the government for treatment in VA hospitals is pretty much identical to the (spurious) Eeevil Plan on Sarah Palin's part to charge rape kits to victim's insurance?

[DebinNC]

Mega oops! Thanks, Hit.

[Ranger]

After reading this (via Hot Air) I have to ask: do the Democrats in congress ever even read the constitution they swear to uphold and defend when they take office?

Speaking of punishing AIG: Rep. Gary Peters (D-MI) plans to introduce a bill to tax AIG bonuses at a high rate this year. A spokesman for Peters says that details are still being worked out. Targeting legislation at one company is tantamount to the Congress’s passing a bill of attainder against AIG. But these are extraordinary times.

There is a specific provision prohibiting bills of attainder in the constitution. So I guess all that preaning by the Dems about Bush shreading the constitution was just because he was doing it for the wrong reasons.

[hit and run]

Great catch Charlie.

[Extraneus]

Speaking of Sarah Palin, is Obama giving her some choice openings these days or what?

Her self-restraint seems pretty impressive so far.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Not to mention--and as the AIG letter pointedly noted--the IRS has rules against deferring compensation (i.e., they want THEIR cut). In fact, the IRS is currently pursuing a very high profile tax avoidance charge against race car driver and Dancing with the Stars champ, Helio Castroneves. For failure to claim $5 million owed him by Penske Racing.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Correct that to 'tax evasion' (not tax avoidance, which is legal).

[DebinNC]

Rep. Peters has a JD and MBA in Finance.

[Extraneus]

Richard Fernandez of The Belmont Club links JOM, and explains how Barney Frank will soon become a fashion designer, Obama a dietician, and Geithner an architect.

The Guardians

[Jane]

Jane, given that Congress can't abrogate contracts under the Constitution, isn't it more likely that it's sound and fury signifying nothing?

Charlie,

One would hope. But I don't trust this guy to have any appreciation of the law and certainly not of business.

[matt]

I am simply flabbergasted daily now with the breadth and depth of this man's philosophy, his morals, and his incompetence. The withdrawal of veteran's benefits represents an abrogation of one of the most sacred contracts in our society.

In exchange for putting one's life on the line for our country, the government is obliged to provide for the medical care of that individual. What the hell does Obama not understand about that simple obligation? He has no honor, has little understanding of the law, and certainly has zero moral standing in our society from this point forward.

[Old Lurker]

How scary is this? Rather than blocking the bonuses, let's just write personal retribution tax law and take the money back. That's what we need in this country.

Fox Reports: "Senate Banking Committee Chairman Chris Dodd, D-CT, "You can write a tax provision targeted specifically at 98% of the taxable proceeds."

Dodd said that "doesn't violate the terms of the contracts," referring to legally-binding agreements that appear to preclude government action.

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-MT, says his staff is reviewing such a proposal. He called it a "worthy" idea but said he needs to know more about how it would work.

Dodd says this is something that "could happen fast. We could write this tomorrow."

[TCO]

You don't know what will happen without more bailouts. Let's jam dollar bills up each Democrat I banker's ass. Shit, Kim. What a fucking commie nitwit you are. Let the market work, you Bush hack.

[bad]

What do you expect with someone like Geithner at the head of the IRS?

[Ranger]

Fox Reports: "Senate Banking Committee Chairman Chris Dodd, D-CT, "You can write a tax provision targeted specifically at 98% of the taxable proceeds."

Please, let them pass this. Then the Rs can simply point out to everyone who works for a living: If they can do it to AIG employees and their bonuses, they can do it to you and your base pay.

[PD]

Dick Morris on Hannity, about Obama: The only thing he seems to be any good at is spending money.

[matt]

"They came first for the communists, but I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist"

has just been turned on its ear.

Is our democracy so fragile? that I am scared to death of these scumbags. Dodd, Obama, Pelosi and their gang are playing the politics of fascism and vendetta like no one except the Bolsheviks and Nazis.

[DebinNC]

AIG bonuses discussion at WSJ Law Blog.

[Scott]

Maybe i am off base on this. But are these bonuses or contractual pay? (stay for x period get paid x) Isn't there a legal difference? Wouldn't the case for lack of payment go through CT Dept of Labor as a complaint prior to court case?

I just don't get it or do I?

[Rick Ballard]

Matt,

It popped the baby Obubble in the market today. It's a rather desperate attempt to rectify the steepening slide in Zero's poll numbers. I wonder if Wall Street would like the rental cash that they laid out on Zero back? So far he's not paying off very well. Not even for a commie.

[Scott]

DebInNC

Thanks for link it actually answers amy questions.

[bad]

Jim Geraghty:

Two details on those AIG bonuses just came out. First, according to the Wall Street Journal, the bonus checks went out on Friday. In other words, AIG no longer has the money.

Second, from CNBC: "Many of the employees who received bonuses are not American and may not care that American taxpayers are outraged over the incident."

LUN to CNBC

Tax that, Dodd....

[narciso]

She's going to get a chance to open up on those issues, meanwhile they're sabotaging
her budget plans, curiously after having returned from a sojourn to D.C, where they placed those earmarks that Tapper erroneously attributed to her.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

TCO, when you sober up, go back and look. Kim's not one of the people who supported any of the bailouts— at least as far as I recall. She's pointed that out repeatedly.

In the mean time, i've got a question: do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

And if so, where?

[Scott]

amy=all my
in two left hand typing anyway

[matt]

Obumble is going to lose big on this veteran's issue. There is almost nothing so deeply ingrained in our society than our obligation to our vets.

[Old Lurker]

We're on the same page, Ranger. How cool will that be. Now we can tax people doing "good jobs" at one rate, and bad bad people, say, mining coal or making SUV's, at a much higher rate. Oh what the hell. Let's not tax people working for Dems at all, and take everything away from their opponents. Wow, the possibilities are endless.

[mel]

Scott-

A quick and fast rule of thumb: If Andrew Cuomo is threatening subpoenas, he does not have the strength of the law behind him.

This is undoubtably to make up for his tenure at HUD for the expansion of CRA and some rule changes at Fannie and Freddie.

Not that he would answer to those questions.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Cripes. Mitt Romney manages to make a fool of himself as well:

[W]ithout a shared sacrifice we couldn’t keep the company alive. Generously, the founders returned the money, putting us on a path to stabilizing the firm and turning it over to new leadership. It’s difficult to understand why the same lesson about shared sacrifice is lost on AIG’s executive team and their government overseers.

Here's a hint for Mitt: the government is in the process of making an orderly liquidation of AIG. Exactly what interest do these people have in turning back compensation to a company being liquidated?

This is a multiple choice question. Your choices are:
a. None.
b. Are you out of your mind?
c. You don't really care as long as it sounds good, do you?

[mel]

OL-

I feel comfortable in predicting that exactly that is coming.

Shoulda seen Nancy on Charlie Rose tonight, oh the plans they've been making.

[mel]

Back to work, Night all!

[Scott]

Mel

Agree he'll never answer those questions

I pretty much use that rule for anything any AG says to the newspapers before they file

[kim]

Charlie, I supported stopping the panic in September, and I teased TCO unmercifully about his objections to the rescue at that time. He's lying about me supporting further bailouts, though. TCO, sadly, gets a fixed idea in his head, often a simple one, and repeats it until it is dogma. For a bright guy, he's really not very bright. He's got a bad case of confirmation bias.
========================================

[Scott]

Kim

Is birth certificate dogma yet?

Just kidding!

[kim]

And he's right, I am a Bush hack. And proud of it. We had it good under his administration.
=============================================

[kim]

Oh, yes, Scott, I've biasly confirmed to myself that there is something hokey about that certificate. Please, show me my bias is wrong.
=============================================

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Kim, I think, seriously, he's a drunk. Look at how his posts change over the course of a day -- from almost rational, to ignorant, to abusive, to profane, and end up with profane abusive masses of typos.

Then at some point, he passes out, and doesn't post for the rest of the evening.

Odds on he's meek, ineffectual, and as a result of the continued alcohol abuse, sexually impotent even when he saves up the money to pay for an hour with the only girls who will have anything to do with him.

[boris]

And his blow up doll ran off with the mail man.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Scott, I disagree with Kim about the utility of continuing the birth-certificate thing, but even I think there's something odd about it. I kind of like the theory that he's "illegitimate", a concept which I reject ethically, but which a lot of people think is important even today. It goes along with a lot of what I've been thinking in terms of his psychology: malignantly narcissistic, oversensitive to criticism, intent on self-aggrandizing displays, never able to settle down into a job but always running, running, for the next one.

He's got to be feeling pretty trapped now. nowhere to go, no promotion, no escape except for the Wednesday night parties and pseudo-campaign trips to carefully selected adoring crowds. But then always coming back to Washington, where he has to once again face what people are beginning to think: that he really is in over his head.

[Pofarmer]

The leader of the nation's largest veterans organization says he is "deeply disappointed and concerned" after a meeting with President Obama today to discuss a proposal to force private insurance companies to pay for the treatment of military veterans who have suffered service-connected disabilities and injuries. The Obama administration recently revealed a plan to require private insurance carriers to reimburse the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) in such cases.

I can't even imagine the hue and cry if Bush had tried that. And, the thing is, it would have been deserved. And, the saddest thing is, I haven't heard or seen a word about it in the MSM, None, Nada, Zip.

[Cecil Turner]

For a bright guy, he's really not very bright.

TCO is plenty bright . . . just not very honest.

[Scott]

Kim

Better than i have tried and failed. But if you ever open a market in it I would like to take the short side of it ever being an issue. I bow to your self confirmed bias!

Have a great night!

[Pofarmer]

Ya know, for a lawyer, Barack Hussein sure doesn't seem to get all this lawyerly stuff. It's almost like he was editor of the Harvard Law Review and never wrote an article. I mean, it's almost like he was a lecturer at a major law school and yet there are no transcripts of any of his lectures. Curious.

[kim]

The utility of it, Charlie, for those of us 'crazy' enough to hammer on it, is that it is a continuing reminder of Obama's flimflammery. It is a running sore, that may eventually turn the whole body septic. It's worth pursuing for that. And I don't mind being considered 'crazy' about it because that was just an Alinsky ploy. It is eminently sensible to ask if he is eligible for the job, particularly now that he is demonstrating constitutional ineligibility for it, and by constitutional, I mean his own constitution.
====================================

[bgates]

a concept which I reject ethically, but which a lot of people think is important even today.

Leaving aside the question of the use of stigmatization in fostering two-parent families, this particular child of uncertain parentage got a lot of mileage out of the notion that he was a natural-born citizen of the world. If his birth was was illegitimate, so were many of the stories he's been telling people for 30+ years.

"Wet Dreams of My Father" by Frank Marshall Davis II would not have flown off the shelves.

[timeforamericanrevolution2]

Didn't America used to be the land of opportunity for all? Today it is just the land of greed for the few. Is this the freedom our soldiers are fighting and dying for? Is it for the freedom of the self-serving cesspool of CEOs, CFOs, Boards of Directors, Bankers, Politicians, Rating Agencies, Government Officials and Wallstreet money whores to plunder responsible hard working American who has paid his dues, lives within his means, pays his taxes (unlike members of Congress), loves his country and believes in the promise of liberty? It has become very hard to love our country run by greedy fools.

Wallstreet is whining about lost bonuses causing a “brain drain”. I’m sorry but a 3rd grader would know not to do what you did. You see 3rd graders typically know how to ADD and SUBTRACT. Did you really think that the price of houses would NEVER go down? Did you at least have a contingency plan if house prices didn’t go up to infinity and beyond? Are you really that stupid? Brain drain~ more like good riddance and good luck trying to get a job in the real world doing something besides running a con, ponzi scheme, lottery, gambling or prostitution ring. Well, you can probably qualify for a government job too. I really don’t care if you had to sleep at your work desk~ you don’t deserve a bonus for staying up all night raping and pillaging. If I were to rack up my credit cards to the limit and throw the money down on a craps table at 30-1 odds… would I deserve a bailout equivalent to all my odds bets when the dice crapped me out?

Look at the never ending spectacle of prima-donna CEOs going begging for taxpayer money. Hurry and bail out my company so we can spread the bonus millions around. What bonus money? Your company is beyond broke. Please explain why you are not in JAIL much less getting a bonus or whining about losing your private jet? Do you have no shame? By the way~ what did you do with the money when you were profiting mightily from your fraudulent schemes? You should sell your mansion built on fraud, empty your bank accounts and give the money back to the American people and go to JAIL. Maybe we should send them to Iraq or Afghanistan so that they can prove to the American people they can act like more than just common beggars and thieves? But that won’t work because the Armed Services require a belief in honor, duty and country. They only believe in selfish GREED.

And where were our great American regulatory agencies during this time? Can someone please explain to how anyone can be so incompetent and not get fired? The SEC and rating agencies are highly complicit in committing this fraud on the world. Ratings Agencies- you have proven your complete irrelevance and total incompetence again. This will be the last time you get paid millions for your lies. My 90 year old Grandmother thanks you for your hard work placing ultra safe AAA ratings on that subprime crap. She only asks that next time you bludgeon her senseless with a bat before you steal what little is left. The SEC can’t stop a 50 Billion dollar ponzi scheme even if they are handed the evidence. It must be difficult to continually make excuses for your complete incompetence. Either you are totally worthless and stupid or you are getting kickbacks. Members of Congress ~ what did you do to be PROACTIVE, PROTECT and SERVE the American people? You took the money from lobbyists to serve yourself and protect the criminals. Chris Dodd and Barney Frank please explain how your actions were beneficial to the American people. If you were just worthless and did nothing we wouldn’t be in this mess. You need to pay back what it cost Freddie, Fannie, and Countrywide to buy you out over the last 8 years and go to JAIL. Why did Mr. Secretary of the Treasury Crime Boss Henry Paulson advocate for deregulation? Much of this bailout has gone to help your friends on Wallstreet. Did you trust that the Wallstreet money whores could regulate themselves and gamble without limit? Why haven’t you and your partner in crime former SEC Chairman Christopher Cox been held accountable? Why is it that these Ivy League educated criminals get away with these unimaginable crimes and the average hard-working person is paying the price? You are surely a genius laughing all the way to your multi-million dollar private estate while the rest of us are struggling to pay for our 3bedroom 2 bath. You need to give the money back to the American people and go to JAIL.

Those of us that have lost our jobs and also see our hard earned investments completely decimated are stunned at the extent of the crimes committed on the ordinary citizen trying hard to save for their future. What about “moral hazard”? Apparently that is only for those who have any morals. What is being done to stop the crooks from robbing us again in the future? Has anyone had to pay for their crimes? Do you really think an extra $15 per paycheck means anything to us? What Congress really thinks is the American people are stupid and they repeatedly prove their contempt for us with their asinine legislation. It would cost the same to send every innocent American family $80K. Does that make too much common sense? Americans could buy a car, pay off their homes or shore up their retirement accounts that have been crushed. Instead you reward the beggars, thieves, and criminals so that they can continue robbing the American people. We need to wake up and realize they have already robbed us blind and are now in the process of stealing from our children and grandchildren.

Until our leaders can stand up and start holding those who got us in this mess responsible there will be not be a promising future for America. Until our leaders can demonstrate they possess some common sense and decency there will not be a future for America. If the criminals had to pay back what they have stolen over the last 8 years then there would not need to be a bailout. Why should we have any confidence in the stock market when the thieves get way with it and we all pay for their crimes? Why should we save for our retirement? So it can be stolen from us again? A complete Governmental overhaul is required. Vote against ALL incumbents. No American should have to pay taxes until an IRS audit is completed for every Congressional member and all back taxes have been paid with penalty. But they are not held accountable and know it well. On top of that our new President offers us hope by having weekly cocktail parties to celebrate the Democratic efforts to help out the irresponsible, the stupid, the thieves, and themselves (see all the above). Nothing has changed- there is no hope.

Trust me- I am getting off the grid. I will do barter and trade for services and live off the land. It is time for me to be selfish and greedy. If you have lost your job, why not join me? Do cash only business to reduce your tax bill. Live off the welfare as much as possible. Steal from your fellow countrymen. The Secretary of Treasury and Wallstreet Banks do it! Buy a house you can’t afford and add live like a king! Don’t worry the taxpayers will rescue you if you can’t make the payments. Go ahead and don’t pay your taxes, take kickbacks and bribes and let your greed rule. That’s what Congress does! Go ahead and lie, exaggerate, commit fraud~ whatever it takes to make a buck. That’s what Wallstreet Banks and the Rating Agencies do! Start your own insurance company! Who cares if you can’t actually pay any claims? Let the good times roll- like AIG you can just keep getting bailouts if you can’t pay up. Go ahead and act stupid too ~ it’s not against the law and can be very profitable. After 22 years in my industry and putting myself through college twice I am done. I am nowhere near where I should be financially but I won’t get fooled again- I promise you that. The average responsible American citizen is now one step away from hitting the street and our leaders have brazenly stolen away our future too. I doubt they are smart enough to realize the consequences of their actions and what is coming next in the land of opportunity.

[kim]

Heh, thanks Scott. I'm almost from Missouri; I almost have to be shown.
======================================

[Dorothy Jane]

I loved it when Obama coughed and Rush said - "The teleprompter just said 'cough'" - What a hoot - The teleprompter is kind of like Evil Queen's mirror in Snow White.

[Scott]

Charlie

I agree with the character references. I think however that worse than having no utility, it has a negative utility. Area 51 negative utility. Strong advocatess and arguments should avoid area 51.

Just my two cents

[PD]

Scott, I disagree with Kim about the utility of continuing the birth-certificate thing, but even I think there's something odd about it.

Indeed. And regardless of whether you think that ultimately the certificate will prove to be legitimate, we have to wonder why has he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting not to have to show it?

[Rick Ballard]

Given that the Kenyan Barry Dunham claims was the sperm donor had a wife in Kenya during his entire stay in the US, the illegitimate aspect is a rather reasonable (although quite unremarkable) assumption. Would Barack Obama (the alleged sperm donor) have risked a bigamy charge to "marry" a US citizen when his passport showed a wifey or two back in Kenya? Would he have risked his visa?

If it's every produced, I would anticipate that the certificate says "Barry Dunham" even if the sperm donor is noted by name. He then became "Barry Soetero" through legal adoption in Indonesia and "Barack Hussein Obama" in a Malcolm Little moment upon his return to Hawaii. Remember - his mommy, the commie, undoubtedly had a copy of The Autobiography of Malcolm X available for little Barry to study at length.

Zero's "dirty secret" isn't that he's a bastard - it's that he's as "real" as Kunta Kinte. An adolescent fantasy.

[kim]

Hey, tfa, direct some of that populist rage at Obama, too. You do nicely illustrate that it has been the moral hazard that feeds the rage. Keep it up.
=============================

[Jane]

Well hit the streets then, starting on April 15th.

[PD]

I don't think I get the logic of Congress (including Obama at the time) authorizing bailout funds for AIG, and then Congress and Obama both demonizing the company they gave money to.

It's not like all this complaining is going to help AIG succeed as a company. So basically, Congress and Obama are telling us taxpayers, "we're going to scare everyone away from this company to guarantee that it fails, so we can look good in our sanctimony, and too it's just bad for youthat we guaranteed the investment we made with your money will be a complete waste."

Thanks, elected leaders.

[narciso]

Well we got some his exams and syllabi of some of his courses; which didn't insist on actually reading the major cases, just tendentious abstracts by the likes of Derrick Bell, in the July 30, NY Times piece by Jodi Cantor, which were frightening
enough.

Ultimately I see the whole birth certificate
effort as quixotic, the train has already left the station; one of many things that should have been scrutinized but weren't are
and the likelyhood they'll be reviewed in the future is very scant if nonexistent. If it were true, could the country survive the psychic shock of such a revelation, how many would refuse to accept it, what would be the consequences of that.

[kim]

Good one, Dorothy Jane. Or the looking glass Alice jumped through. I like yours better.
==================================

[kim]

Well, maybe, narciso, the consequence of not checking the eligibility of this synthetic construct is the mess this train is heading into at high speed. And maybe, the Mighty Mouse to rescue all the passengers is a peek at Box 7c on the vault copy of his birth certificate.

Once Obama's reign has crashed and burned, the psychic difficulty of recognizing his imposture will be an easy burden to bear, compared to all the burdens and difficulties he will have brought upon us. He and his.
=====================================

[Dorothy Jane]

Will he be able to marshall the foot soldiers? - that's what I want to know. My sister was one - she called, she walked, she rang doorbells.. But somehow - I can't imagine her calling and saying "have you heard about that GREAT new trillion dollar budget?" I just can't imagine it. AND I can't imagine all the Facebook faithful to change their middle names to John "Budget" Doe - like they changed their names to Hussein. I think O and his minions are dreaming if they are planning to use the worker bees to get this all done.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Kim, this one's for you. I haven't seen the technical paper yet, but it sounds interesting.

[matt]

you can backtrack the data Obama's birth by getting a copy of his parent's wedding cert as well. If his parents were married at the time of his birth, then I would assume it was legitimate. Now if he lied about his parent's marriage, it's just one more nail in the coffin of his shredded credibility.

[matt]

maybe we should all trade our screen names for XXX "John Galt "xxx

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Zero's "dirty secret" isn't that he's a bastard - it's that he's as "real" as Kunta Kinte. An adolescent fantasy.

I think you might be right; that goes with the abusive childhood, the estrangement from his mom and grandmother, the idolized absent parent. But that's still not a disqualifier for the Presidency. Hell, he would be the first president of the 21st century whose parentage wasn't certain, but not the first one of the last 100 years. You all remember President Blythe, right? It's all the more reason for him to be so determined to protect his story, which is an answer for PD as well.

As something for his future biographers, it will be fascinating. I just don't see any political payoff. I can't imagine any sequence of events that would convince the SCOTUS to attempt to remove the sitting President at this point; far more likely the Senate would vote to impeach Roberts and any other Justice who voted to grant cert. (There's a Constitutional crisis for you.) And considering how the whole impeachment thing worked out with President Blythe, I'd think, as Scott said, that the downside risk is considerable.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I don't think I get the logic of Congress (including Obama at the time) authorizing bailout funds for AIG, and then Congress and Obama both demonizing the company they gave money to.

And you imagine that logic has something to do with it why?

[narciso]

I guess, Kim,I'd just as soon pursue avenues that have more promise, there's plenty to challenge about his policies that are out in the open; that are all almost invariably wrong, and contradictory. All designed to make us weaker, more docile, more incapable of projecting military or economic power, and to pit one group against another. I never thought this could
happen to this country, it validates my late grandfather, who was even more of an autodidact than me, if you can imagine it, greatest foreboding. He talked about the decline of moral & civic education, and it's replacement with the amoral rubric of social studies. How people without firm belief systems would turn to the latest fad, because they had to believe in something. I didn't want to believe, in
someways I still don't

AIG wasn't an accident, it happened in part because the best leadership since the founder C.V. Starr, Maurice Greenberg, was 'kneecapped'by Elliot Spitzer, for glory and power. Goldman, Citi, Fannie and Freddie traded this bad paper, sanctified by the CRA, and none of the players responsible get punished, in fact in the case of Patterson & Sussman, to use too recent examples, they get promoted. I know this happened in the Depression with Harriman, Lovett, McCloy and Forrestal making in into FDR's cabinet. Doesn't make it any more just. I saw the facade in D.C,
what is it now two weeks ago, and what it could be, but you can't help have cognitive
dissonance when one is cognizant of the reality. My anger at AIG isn't so much the bailout, but they did a lousy job and they
shouldn't be rewarded for it. I know the whole thing about contractual obligations, but they still are tied to performance. By the way, the event I've been LUning seems to have be have been prematurely announced.
While "good news everybody" Joe McGuiness
is on the Alaska pipeline case for Portfolio, reviewing all the usual suspects
and of course getting the story wrong.

[Rick Ballard]

The prepress of the Tsonis paper is available here.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Narciso, I don't have details -- and couldn't tell them if I did -- but I have sources looking at AIG from the inside, and he thinks Spitzer was wrong, but that Greenburg wasn't the paragon of good practice either.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I know the whole thing about contractual obligations, but they still are tied to performance.

No, that's not true. In fact they were specifically detached from performance, because the management knew performance was gonna suck and bonuses would suck ergo. These were retention bonuses, which are paid for not leaving. With no end-of-year bonus coming and the company failing, the ones who were good and well known in the Street would have walked, and gotten signing bonuses to do so. These guys didn't leave, and so are due the bonus payments.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Thanks, Rick.

[hit and run]

Charlie:
Kim, this one's for you.

Ah, and this one, more political than scientific, is blatantly an http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0309/Steele_on_warming_cooling.html>effort to shore up the kim constiuency.

Shorter Michael Steele:

"We're cooling, folks. For how long even kim doesn't know.
============================
"

[RichatUF]

Tom-

This is from the Administration that appointed tax cheat Tim Geithner to head the Treasury, inspired no doubt by his marvelous success at the NY Fed, where he had regulatory responsibility for Citigroup

And don't forget Geithner was involved in the original AIG bailout. Oh look at that it was done before TARP using authority the Fed already had on the books. And Tax Cheat Geithner has been trying to get it right ever since.

[kim]

Oops, I missed all this tangling with Nick. Yes, Tsonis might have it; my belief about the PDO running the show is not contradictory, nor is the belief that fundamentally the sun does.
==============================================

[kim]

Rick, I don't think CA has started in on the Tsonis paper yet; it'll be fun when they do. Steve McIntyre is taking a break in Bangkok, but RomanM and Ryan O, and the Nicks, Id and C, have destroyed Eric Steig's Nature paper about the Antarctic warming.
===================================

[Dave in Phoenix]

The entire bailout and stimulus taxpayer money is NOTHING BUT rewarding failure BY CONGRESS. I can picture all the MSM watchers nodding their ignorant heads in agreement after hearing Barney Frank's comments today.

Gotta give Barney and crew some credit though, at least they were able to grasp one simple concept (referring to AIG bonuses). Keep trying !

[RichatUF]

Charlie (CO)-

Back on the Cheney thread you asked a question about Rove's claim that the Obama Administration attempt to start a grassroots lobbying campaign for Obama's budget is illegal. I tried to answer it in part.

[glenda]

Charlie~you are absolutely brilliant, tonight! what am I saying??? you're always
brilliant!!
hugs..

Early St. Patrick's Day wishes of luck to you all..hoping we all find a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow and not the pot of *&^### that Obama's holding!
my maternal grandmother was an O'Keefe...
Irish/Serbian!!! Do you think there are anger issues in my geneaology?

[Foreigner]

From people who have no qualms accepting millions of dollars of campaign contributions and spending the cash without an eyelid on fake Greek columns.

[narciso]

I'll grant that, forty years in the business, dealing with the obligatory
guanxi and probably baksheesh in internationsl relations,but it's curious
where was the US Atty for the SDNY at the time. How did they go after Langone, & Greenberg and whoever was running Lehman, but missed the major players like Madoff
were doing. The wider metaphor of what Elliot Spitzer was doing to us, I've become naturally very cynical about most perceived
authority, I never took Cramer seriously, because he seemed! nuts, Santelli seemed fairly sober, Kernan & co. The Fox AllStars
have alot to answer for, but you knew that,

[Daddy]

Waited til sunset tonight to see if I could catch another view of Redoubt backlit by the setting sun, but no luck, as a thick haze remains obscuring the horizon. We did get an easily felt small, sharp quake about 3 hours ago (reported as 4.3) but nothing of consequence reported on this site though a few more nice pictures from yesterday were added to the top of their photo list.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Thanks, Rich. I've been both sickly and overstressed for about a month, hadn't had a chance to look back.

[PD]

And you imagine that logic has something to do with it why?

Audacious hope?

[rrr]

No chance we're going to ever win this. The ONE has his sycophants and spinners everywhere and anything negative is already buried. For the first time in my life, I have no hope for the future. Change, yes. Hope, dashed.

[glenda]

daddy....maybe it's time to take the girls on your next trip! B watchful and stay steady.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

This thing about Cramer is kind of dumb. He's a trader; he's running a show for traders. He's over-caffeinated and has a short attention span: trader. He's not right 100 percent of the ime: trader. (And, for that matter, human.) He urges other traders to take risks: trader. He has a track record of having made more money than he lost, by making more winning bets than losing bets: that's the definition of a good trader. He also has nothing of any scientific nature to prove that his scheme is better: he may have been one of Talib's "black swans." Trader.

On the other hand, Stewart either doesn't understand the difference between having a brokerage account open and holding stock in the company, or he does and let his producers purposefully conflate them to make Cramer look bad. Making him either an ignoramus or an asshole.

And some people apparently think Cramer, or any other financial advisor, is going to be right every time. Those are idiots.

The whole Cramer thing would be a lot clearer if people kept this in mind.