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March 02, 2009

Comments

kim

It's all my fault. Last September, on the day that AIG was saved, I was in Round Three of a fight with AIG, who claimed I owed them $120. I claimed we were even. After Round 4 in November, they sent me a check for $120. Did I seek to get a fair decision with Round 5? Naw, I threw in the towel. Clearly, that towel was a butterfly's wing.
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steve sturm

I don't know who gets credit, but I do like the line "it was like buying insurance from someone on the Titanic".

And note that bailing out AIG is less a bailout of AIG than a bailout of AIG's customers and trading partners. If the government doesn't give AIG billions, AIG can't pay out those billions and its customers have to record losses (more or less than the amount of collateral at stake I can't say but presume it's about the same amount). Thus, Paulson wasn't bailing out AIG as much as he was bailing out his buddies, but with a whole lot less political flak than if he bailed his buddies out directly.

Jack is Back!

Now I know where all the "smartest guys in the room" that used to work at Enron, now work - AIG.

Neo

A treatment of the side effects of the stimulus and other bailouts.

Neo

.. that used to work at XXX, now work

I've concluded that all the statisticians that used to work at the Tobacco Institute, now subsist on "Global Warming" federal grants.

benben

Dow falls below 7000, but the MSM says people really believe in the stimulus package and the new budget and hope and change.

Danube of Thought

Getting close to 6900.

RichatUF

steve strum-

Thus, Paulson wasn't bailing out AIG as much as he was bailing out his buddies, but with a whole lot less political flak than if he bailed his buddies out directly.

What about Geithner? It was the NY Fed that "organized" the first deal with the NY Insurance Commissioner.

Kevin B

Thanks TM! I now totally understand the whole mortgage backed security thing. (As in I'm totally confused by it which means, according to Prof. Gorton, that I'm fully conversant with all the subleties and nuances.)

Danube of Thought

Now at 6880.

steve sturm

RichatUF: I'm using Paulson both literally and figuratively to include all those who have pushed a bailout because 'we' needed it when in fact it was their friends and former colleagues who needed it.

Rick Ballard

If anyone cares to understand the "workings" of the mind of a fully credentialed moron then Prof. Gorton's paper is well worth a look. In particular, the 'Some Background' section beginning on page 5, provides insight into the "thinking" behind the extension of credit to the unqualified in the form of no doc 100% ARMs.

Such lovely intentions. Well deserving of a marked section of the path, with every stone inscribed with the name "Gorton" as a gesture of appreciation as to the good professor's efforts.

Matt

the mismanagement boggles the mind. One trillion, two trillion and more, with little or no accountability, no clear purpose except reaction to markets...no real plan that is discernible even by the readers of tea leaves.... Simply stunning incompetence.

Rick Ballard

The Holmstrom paper is very good but it also strolls by the 'Why?' question with only a casual glance. I can follow the arguments concerning the complexity and opacity of the instruments but skipping over "What purpose does their very existence fulfill?" leads me to thoughts of Ptolemy calculatin epicycles.

MayBee

I remember when Appalled told TM he should do more econ blogging.
Now TM is doing just that, and our friend Appalled is nowhere to be found.
Come back, Appalled!

Jack is Back!

Politics of Fear + Hyper-taxation = Hyper-inflation.

Lets welcome back the misery index with a some new metrics:

Metric One: % decrease in NYSE since start of year 2009 (24%)

Metric Two: % decrease in Shiller index of 20 City housing prices since Obama election (20%)

Metric Three: % increase in Gold since Obama election (21%)

Then you add them up: %65 increase. Lets check in after the omnibus bill is signed and the budget is approved (some time in early June??)

Have to run. Need to buy a cardigan.

spongeworthy

Once it became clear that valuing the collateral accurately was important, people walked away.

Precisely, and this is why many of us supported TARP as it was orginally designed.

I heard it argued again and again that if these bonds were worth anything, a market would arise. But if nobody has the data, nobody's going to stick their head up and show a bid only to get slapped with trash by an informed seller.

The Treasury can get the numbers behind the collateral. It can require the originators of the various products to disclose the exact structure--something dealers regarded as proprietary.


Under TARP, now one player has both the data and the funds to make informed purchases. Nobody else can do this. We should have been able to add liquidity and turn a profit for us taxpayers--a no-brainer except for ideologues. (Which I used to be.)

I'm out of the loop now, but to the degree we've strayed from this plan, I commend those who opposed TARP from the start. You were right.

Danube of Thought

Toomey now considering a primary challenge to Specter. LUN

bad

I'll be donating to Toomey.

Old Lurker

JackBack, suggest you start counting as of the day of the election.

Also don't overlook the jobs lost metric.

bad

Dow down 250.

Old Lurker

I'd donate to the man in the moon.

Danube of Thought

When is he gonna bail out the S&P 500?

Pofarmer

Politics of Fear + Hyper-taxation = Hyper-inflation.

We've got to go through this deflation first. After that, who knows? But, the rise in gold prices doesn't have much to do with the value of the currency.

Jane

Toomey now considering a primary challenge to Specter.

Toomey is fantabulous!!!

glasater

Earlier on CNBC today some pundit said that because of margin calls the price of gold might go down since that commodity is the most liquid to raise cash.

Walter

demand creates its won supply

I know I've been gone too long when I cannot determine whether this is a typo or TM's usual brilliant, yet irreverent, take on the story.

And Hurrah! for the econ blogging. TM's coverage beats anything in the Times and three-quarters of the WSJ.

bad
TAPPER: Two questions, one on AIG and one on CIA. AIG, is the administration confident that it -- that it knows what happened to the tens of billions of dollars previously given to AIG? GIBBS: Is it confident -- I'm sorry?

TAPPER: That they know -- that you guys know what happened to the previous billions before you hand over this next $30 billion.

GIBBS: Yes -- yes, the -- I mean, I don't think it's a -- well, obviously, you've got a huge insurance company that is losing money, not the least of which because of its sheer size and sheer size and decrease in the growth in our economy. It experiences a far bigger drop, largely because of its size. But, again, the steps that -- that Treasury and -- and others took were to ensure a larger systemic problem wasn't one that we had to deal with here today in letting something just die.

TAPPER: But in terms of specifically the -- I guess it's like $150 billion before, you guys are confident...

GIBBS: Yes.

The Obama administration knows what happened to all of the billions given to AIG. I feel so much better now....

glasater

Bad~

Know you meant your comment facetiously but.......no this Admin does NOT know what they're doing and the market is reflecting that fact.
From what I'm listening to on CNBC--the traders will join a demonstration of a drastic kind against Washington.

Jane

YOu know, starting today I officially believe Obama is trashing the economy on purpose.

sbw

From what I'm listening to on CNBC--the traders will join a demonstration of a drastic kind against Washington.

I think they should start waving towels as a signal they want Obama to throw in the towel.

MayBee

YOu know, starting today I officially believe Obama is trashing the economy on purpose.

Jane- one wonders why he won't just shut up and let things ride for a few days. He, for some reason, needs to announce something new and too big every single day.

bad- did you hear Gibbs repeat the bankruptcy "statistic"?

Rick Ballard

Jane,

I dunno about that. I'd bet $1K that Barry Dunham couldn't explain the difference between a CDS and a CDO. He certainly isn't inspiring any confidence in his ability as the chief executive. The market has assessed his ability, the ability of his advisers and the ability of Democrat "leadership" in general. The verdict? In Italian one would say "Salva chi puo." Help ain't on the way.

What is the political benefit to the Democrats and the Commie Bastard in Chief for a continuing demonstration of profound ineptitude?

Jane

I swear this is all part of his arrogant smug little plan to take over the universe.

Jane

What is the political benefit to the Democrats and the Commie Bastard in Chief for a continuing demonstration of profound ineptitude?

Chaos - A scared populous is an easily manipulated populous.

But it isn't going to work. People are close to revolt.

MayBee

Remember the talk this fall from Dems about government taking over from 401(k)s? That seems immensely more difficult to do if everone's 401(k) is healthy.
Once people have watched their retirement funds disappear due to the free market, convincing them the government will protect them is that much easier.

MayBee

I suddenly, desperately want to know what classes Obama took in college, and who helped him get into Harvard.

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

Jane- one wonders why he won't just shut up and let things ride for a few days.

Maybee,

Because he's discovered he's very good at being President (close to a quote), so nothing he says or does could possibly be anything other than benevolent.

Rick Ballard

Why, MayBee? It makes no difference. It's screamingly obvious that he did not advance on the basis of ability or intelligence.

That's where the "chaos to inspire fear" theory falls a bit short. What he's inspiring is anger and ridicule isn't going to be far behind. It's hard to underestimate the intelligence of the Muddle but I think he's doing it. I don't recall even the hyper narcissist Bubba thrusting himself in front of cameras to the extent that Zero has in the past month and all he has done is drive his "strong disapproval" rating up by 100% in 40 days.

Extraneus

Once people have watched their retirement funds disappear due to the free market, convincing them the government will protect them is that much easier.

Wasn't it illuminating how rabidly the Dems foamed at the mouth over Bush's proposal to let new SS participants have the option to control a portion of their SS in some sort of 401k-like fund? Why didn't people get suspicious about that reaction, especially young people?

glasater

Hank Greenberg is mounting a lawsuit against AIG.

MayBee

Why, MayBee?

I'm imagining a slew of classes studying Marxism.

bgates

I'd bet $1K that Barry Dunham couldn't explain the difference between a CDS and a CDO.

Wouldn't that be a great press conference question. (Does Tapper return the favor and come over here? Taranto, you know any of the guys who ask questions?)

"Mr Obama, the housing crisis has been going on for months now, but there are aspects of it that many people still find very confusing. Could you define, for the American people, what a credit default swap is?"

MayBee

I wonder if Geithner became enamored of the Japanese Postal Savings system when he spent time over there.

Everyone knows the Japanese are good savers, but millions of Japanese use the national postal system as their bank. The interest rate has been near 0 forever.
Because it is held by a government entity, the political bosses have, over the years, borrowed the money of the taxpayers to develop whatever pet project they need to get reelected. The whole thing was rife with corruption.

I imagine Democrats coming up with a similar plan.

stevesturm

Jane: I heartily agree, Obama couldn't have screwed things up if he was trying to. I wonder how many of the 66 million people who voted for him are having buyer's remorse after watching their investments crater. As much as disliked Bush, the markets never cratered on his watch (yeah, I'm not giving him that much credit, just pointing out the timing).

Pofarmer

Not sure if this was discussed elsewhere, but Rush and Shawn were HAMMERING on the "Hope Obama Fails" meme today. Gibbs is still taking it out of context. Has anyone ever seen a President openly take on a public figure like this? It's kinda creepy. The thing is, Rush is giving the Republicans an opening a mile wide here to explain themselves, and they're too chicken shit to do it. Hannity is playing clips by the Dozens of Dim's saying they either hope Bush fails, has failed, or that he's an insolent dope. This has gone about far enough with these thin skinned idiots.

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

I'm imagining a slew slough of classes studying Marxism.

Seems a little closer, considering his background and where he has us headed.

Rick Ballard

"I'm imagining a slew of classes studying Marxism."

He was a red diaper baby - suckled on Marxism and falling asleep to Pete Seeger lullabies. He probably could have taught Marxism by the time he hit Colombia. He's dumb but Marxism isn't hard to learn to parrot and he proves every day that he can parrot at length.

I believe that he received intense indoctrination in the Alinsky subset of Marxism at Colombia. Again, it's really pretty simple to grasp once one casts aside all principles.

Pagar

Rick, I doubt if it took long to cast aside the principles in his case. I can't see where he would have gotten any from.

bad

bad- did you hear Gibbs repeat the bankruptcy "statistic"?

I heard Obama repeat that fallacy again today but didn't hear all of the Gibbs spiel. Is Gibbs spouting the same carp, and if so, why isn't he being called out?

Pofarmer

why isn't he being called out?

Who's gonna do it?

TCO

Well kim, think how much worse things would have been if we had gone cold Turkey. Keep sipping that hair of the dog. You go girl. Cram some more crap down your gullet. Argue to double the stimulus package. Who knows, maybe the Bush-Paulson-bama actions are insufficient. You socialist MORON.

Neo

YOu know, starting today I officially believe Obama is trashing the economy on purpose.

So exactly who benefits from the market tanking now ? George Soros ?

Neo

Got a kick out of Jim Crammer referring to ..
"Comrade Obama and Pelosi" today.

kim

Hey, good work at the air vent. Any clues about WordPress?
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kim

Because the world needs more of TCO's opinions. When he's good, he's very good, but when he's bad, he's awful.
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kim

And since the whole world seems to be circling the Thomas, it's a little naive to blame that little bitty TARPy thing. But beat that dead horse. Maybe "It's Alive!"
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BR

Kim, your butterfly post is sooo funny.
PS - sent you an email on 3/1. Take a look :)

BR

I have this beautifully illustrated, leatherbound book of Kipling's Just So Stories and the last one I read was "The Butterfly That Stamped." I felt a tear in the fabric of the universe recently. A magnificent one!

Greg Ransom

I notice you ignore the work of John Taylor .....

What's up with that?

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