In Loco Parentis, Or Just Loco?

Adam Liptak of the Times reports on School Officials Gone Wild:

SAFFORD, Ariz. — Savana Redding still remembers the clothes she had on — black stretch pants with butterfly patches and a pink T-shirt — the day school officials here forced her to strip six years ago. She was 13 and in eighth grade.

An assistant principal, enforcing the school’s antidrug policies, suspected her of having brought prescription-strength ibuprofen pills to school. One of the pills is as strong as two Advils.

The search by two female school employees was methodical and humiliating, Ms. Redding said. After she had stripped to her underwear, “they asked me to pull out my bra and move it from side to side,” she said. “They made me open my legs and pull out my underwear.”

Ms. Redding, an honors student, had no pills. But she had a furious mother and a lawyer, and now her case has reached the Supreme Court, which will hear arguments on April 21.

I infer the school is worried about the budgetary impact of a loss in this suit.  Let's hear from an expert:

Richard Arum, who teaches sociology and education at New York University, said he would have handled the incident differently. But Professor Arum said the Supreme Court should proceed cautiously.

“Do we really want to encourage cases,” Professor Arum asked, “where students and parents are seeking monetary damages against educators in such school-specific matters where reasonable people can disagree about what is appropriate under the circumstances?”

Reasonable people disagree about whether this was appropriate?  How many parents strip-search their own thirteen year olds, let alone other kids?  For Advil?  I would guess roughly none.  In fact, I daresay that if a thirteen year old came to school officials and complained that her parents were strip-searching her, the school might arrange for a home visit from Child Services.

That Supreme Court hearing will provide some You-Tube moment, I bet.  I pity the fool trying to explain this to Scalia.

Comments

[bad]

LOCO school. Did they think she was going to make a bundle selling to young ladies with cramps?

I pity the fool trying to explain this to Scalia.

Excellent line....

[PeterUK]

Perverts!

[bad]

PUK, did you hear about the high school who required young ladies to show that they were wearing panties before they were permitted entry to a dance?

[memomachine]

Hmmmm.

"PUK, did you hear about the high school who required young ladies to show that they were wearing panties before they were permitted entry to a dance?"

I am sooooooo there.

[MayBee]

Hopefully the court will surprise everyone and outlaw "zero tolerance" policies like the one that led to this strip search.

[PeterUK]

"PUK, did you hear about the high school who required young ladies to show that they were wearing panties before they were permitted entry to a dance?"

There are bands who have such a rider in their contract.Can't remember which way round it is.

[Jack is Back!]

And people wonder why American's can't understand folly of Congress on the AIG bonus kerfuffle. Because they were educated in schools run by "commissars gone wild". That's why!

[Roux]

The idiot assistant principal and principal should have been fired long ago.

My wife is a middle school teacher. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to play good principal/bad principal with a 13 year old. They can't keep their mouths shut.

[MayBee]

I suppose calling her parents to come pick her up if she refused to turn over the pill was out of the question.

I would find a way to charge these women with child pornography. Or something.

[gus]

Strip them all and film it. There is your answer.

[clarice]

And where did the teachers who did this get the notion that there could be anything reasonable about it?--Clue"
"Richard Arum, who teaches sociology and education "

Dopiness at the top filters down--
Now, I suppose we could invent a No Dope Left Behind Act which tested sociology and ed majors for common sense and required passing scores before letting them out of the groves of academe..but how many do you suppose would pass?

[Lord Whorfin]

uh, let me think a minute.... None??

[hit and run]

Clarice:
Now, I suppose we could invent a No Dope Left Behind Act which tested sociology and ed majors for common sense

Heh, Thomas Lifson, Ph.D., Sociology, Harvard

[Jim Ryan]

TM, Merriam-Webster has just put a screenshot of your blog for their definition of "prodigious." You're blogging up a storm. Thanks for all these great posts.

[matt]

Just another example of the idiocracy at work.

"Let's Dumb Down, America!"

[clarice]

Shh, Hit, but he LEFT it behind.

[clarice]

I think there's a screen play here:"Advil Madness"
We show how it starts with a monthly pop of an advil or two and ends up in a dissolute life, devoid of meaning (and income).

[Fresh Air]

Strip them all and film it. There is your answer.

And sell the DVDs instead of cupcakes to raise money for the library.

[Balthar]

The school district does not contest that Ms. Redding had no disciplinary record, but says that is irrelevant.

“Her assertion should not be misread to infer that she never broke school rules,” the district said of Ms. Redding in a brief, “only that she was never caught.”

Anyone who isn't infuriated to the point of rebellion by this statement, please proceed to the nearest exit from the U.S.A.

[matt]

guilty until proven innocent now as well?

[speedstan]

Years ago, I worked as a supervisor on a community college campus where the local county government had arranged some type of work program for "troubled youth" and in the infinite wisdom that bureaucrats are known for, they decided that the most appropriate work environment was in a college chemistry stockroom, full of nice fun stuff like flammable liquids, corrosives, oxidizers and carcinogens. I was of course oppposed to this, as I had this bad habit of trying to exercise basic common sense and personal responsibility, but the administration would have none of my opinion - how dare I oppose this wonderful attempt to mentor young lives? As to be expected, one of the young'uns took to "collecting" stuff he found interesting, like various lab devices and geological samples containing low-level concentrations of radioactive ore, and stuffing them into his pants. I observed said behavior, went to the director of the program, and told him that I was terminating our department's participation in the program on the grounds of safety and common sense. This director then lectured me about how I was "depriving" these youth of a "wonderful experience", and suggested I was being "too judgemental". He THEN suggested that I could just "pat down" these young kids every day to make sure they weren't taking anything home with them! As a male adult who has NO desire whatsoever to lay a finger on anyone under 18 years old (and we were talking about an 11-year old kid here), you can imagine I was more than a little taken aback. The response I received from this director? "What's the problem? I do that all the time." I am thorougly convinced that the combination of Affirmative Action and Political Correctness have populated our public education institutions with IDIOTS.

[clarice]

Lets tp Ms Redding's house!!

[sbw]

Now let's look at the other side of this coin.

Fifty years ago the local YMCA had a 15x20 foot pool in its basement and the kids who swam there swam -- naked.

Fifty years ago everyone had to take gym, and afterwards, in their respective boys and girls locker rooms was required to shower afterwards in the communal showers -- naked.

Fifty years ago at the all-boys summer camp, there were no doors on the three stalls of toilets in each age group's restroom and communal shower.

Was nakedness different back then?

[MayBee]

I think stripping at the direction of two adults is very different (emotionally) than showering in a group after gym class.

[sbw]

I think what the principal did was ill-advised, stupid, unnecessary, and probably not illegal. It should be illegal.

What I was pointing out was that we have a generation of prudes, too.

[In my opinion]

I suppose I would sympathize more for the school if the suspected drug was something more potent than Ibuprofen, even if prescription strength, and posed an imminent hazard to the other students.

I might find their actions in searching the girl ok, or at least more justified, if they had observed her with the alleged pills and she had momentarily gotten out of sight before being caught and she didn't have the pills in her pockets and such. It would then be a case of a search, albeit seemingly extreme, to find something they knew she had had rather than suspected as seems to be the case.

As is, it looks like a couple of people, I would assume in good faith, thinking that the school policy must be upheld irregardless of the circumstances.

But that's just me.

[J.R.]

What I was pointing out was that we have a generation of prudes, too.

Did the camp counselors and gym teachers also shower with the kids? BTW, we had communal showers in high schools and use them after some classes and sports practices, at least we did 10 years ago.

Not sure about the Y stuff, but it's not like kids were swimming in the buff at outdoor community pools with other adults.

So I think your references to prudeness and analogies to this incident are way off base.

[MayBee]

What I was pointing out was that we have a generation of prudes, too.

Apparently you haven't checked out Facebook photos lately.

[sbw]

At the YMCA, just the kids swam. Sometimes the counselors and gym teachers did shower with the kids, and I was so young that present-day concerns were certainly not on my naive little mind.

J.R. I made no analogies to this incident so they can't be off base. I pointed out something completely different.

And prudishness reigns, even if you say it doesn't.

I have children in their late teens and overhear such comments as make it certain that the possibility of a communal shower, particularly for the girls, after gym, is inconceivable to them.

To be sure, with boys in sports, that is not the case.

And dealing with sexuality is yet another subject.

[J.R.]

Fine, then I was off base.

Although I agree with Maybee, your observation of increased prudishness of today compared to 50 years ago reigns only in your own mind.

[MayBee]

Sometimes the counselors and gym teachers did shower with the kids, and I was so young that present-day concerns were certainly not on my naive little mind.

It wasn't on your mind, but any pedophile who wanted to catch a thrill knew where to look.

I don't think it's prudishness among children that's grown, but awareness/paranoia among parents.

[Uncle BigBad]

Although I agree with Maybee, your observation of increased prudishness of today compared to 50 years ago reigns only in your own mind.

Well, if you don't like "prudishness," try "political correctness."

[sbw]

Heh! Thanks, J.R.

We'll have to find a way to distinguish the too politically correct, the foul-mouthed, the public lasciviousness, rude movies, with the inability of people to change into a bathing suit amongst friends.

Oh, and we are, of course, defining out the middle-aged German men in their slingshot spandex. I don't even care to THINK about that.

[bad]

Neighbors at the lake are European. Everyone, regardless of age, wears very scanty bathing suits.

The homeowners are in their eighties.

One never looks to the west while using binoculars...

[DebinNC]

Just how legally does a student get arrested for breaking wind in class? My hubby had to deal with several students last week who the teacher said were purposely disrupting class via this method. Knowing their past misbehavior, he warned them further "eruptions" would bring detention or suspension. But arrest? No.

[DebinNC]

Oops.. flatulence link fixed

[Rocco]

I perform strip searches almost daily at work and after 27 years, it still remains a difficult and awkward thing to do. Imagine how they feel when I have to tell them to "bend over and spread em."

Now imagine a young, shy, 13 year old female, hormones raging and in the peak of puberty, enduring that humilty. Just awful...

[bad]

WOW, Deb, I had no idea you could get in big trouble that way.

[Jane]

Rocco,

Do you work in a prison?

[daddy]

Well the way things are going, wonder if it's worth speculating on what will be the classroom norms in our Brave New World 50 years on.
I'm thinking Kama Sutra Study Hall's, RU486 in all Cafeteria Soylent Milk-products, all dating banned unless its intra-species, and teen prgnancy a thing of the past as all reproduction will be State regulated Designer DNA In-vitro's. Wish George Orwell or Julian Huxley or Ray Bradbury or Philip K Dick had written about it in books capable of withstanding temperatures above Fahrenheit 451.

[PeterUK]

"Rocco,

Do you work in a prison?"

No,in a ladies lingerie emporium.

[Rocco]

Yes I do Jane. I call it the enchanted kingdom!

[Rocco]

I'd never retire PUK...

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

I have a 16 year old daughter and believe the stupid zero tolerance policies of schools are awful.
However does this rise to the level of a consitutional tripwire, illegal search and seizure?
Maybe, but it seems to me this was something the state was wholly capable of handling at its level, without SCOTUS cert.

[Jane]

So are we watching the WOn's press conference tonite.

Who can we get to live blog it? Where is Eliott when we need him?

[SunnyDay]

re: the communal showers and skinny dipping. I think it is the loss of innocence, not increased prudishness.

[SunnyDay]

Somebody blog it - I am watching the NIT. I cannot stand to listen to the man.

[David Smith]

If "prescription-strength ibuprofen" is not allowed in school and one of the pills is as strong as two Advils, does that mean "two Advils" are also not allowed?

Or is that too much math for a Professor of "sociology and education"?

[PeterUK]

"prescription-strength ibuprofen".No sense of proportion,I've got enough stuff like this to stun a fair sized herd of wildebeest.

[Stephanie]

The point isn't between prudishness and political correctness.... it is between having to think and reason through a situation to come to a decision you have to live with (personal responsibility) and zero tolerance one size fits all no thinking required nanny statism (no personal responsibility).

Not only are the students dumbed down, so are the teachers and admins... confront them with an argument or situation that they can't pigeonhole into a predefined result and parents that actually reason and it is the same reaction as a prog when confronted with logic in a political argument - no talking points or bumper sticker slogans and they are reduced to spluttering and attacks.

"You want your daughter to look like a slut?" (she wore a shirt that didn't show any boob, only it wasn't flat against a flat chest... she is built like a VS model and very shy and quite modest) Ummm... how about the male teachers quit oogling the girls with large boobs looking for shadows in their cleavage?

"Your child isn't normal" Ummm... Thank you! I tried very hard to raise a child with individual style and creativity.

I am an administrator's worst nightmare. And I'm married to a teacher. His response is to submit and not cause problems... not me... OUTLAW!!!

[Thomas Collins]

Off Topic.

Jane, I just noticed on http://fwdaj.com that you are getting your own radio show. Congratulations!!!! Snaps, foot stomping, whistles and wild applause for Jane!!!!

[bad]

Jane, have you decided on the name?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

The point isn't between prudishness and political correctness.... it is between having to think and reason through a situation to come to a decision you have to live with (personal responsibility) and zero tolerance one size fits all no thinking required nanny statism (no personal responsibility).

Bingo.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

So, did you all notice that O not only had a teleprompter, but this time it was a live video instead of a real TelePrompTer, which uses a canned script that can't be quickly updated?

He's getting fed answers for his press conference questions.

[bad]

Chaco that would be pretty pathetic 'cause he didn't say anything we haven't heard before.

[Jim Ryan]

He's getting fed answers for his press conference questions.

Any chance the reporters had to submit their questions beforehand? He called the list of reporters one by one. The answers were queued up. Voila.

[clarice]

chaco--that's a big screen ..anyone in the room could see what it said. Don't you suppose if he had been fed answers everyone could see that?

[daddy]

Today Sarah Palin went on offense and it was nice to see.

She had just received her 11th Ethics Complaint since taking office. This one was filed by a local Left Wing Blogger. You'll remember that her Husband Todd races in the Iron Dog Sled race and has won it a few times. He races Arctic-Cat Snow-machines and they are one of his sponsors. At this years start of the race Sarah wore a jacket with an Arctic Cat Logo. The Filed Ethics Complaint contends'' that she is a walking billboard for Arctic Cat," and that this is unethical.

The governor hit the roof over the latest accusation.
"Are Alaskans outraged, or at least tired of this yet -- another frivolous ethics charge by a political blogger? This would be hilarious if it weren't so expensive for the state to process these accusations and for me to defend against these bogus harassments," Palin said in Tuesday's written release.

It was nice to see her getting mad today, and getting vocal about getting mad. Even the local Talk Show guys, who regularly bang her to death, considered this complaint beyond the pale.

">http://www.adn.com/palin/story/735153.html"> "To defend against various complaints, the governor has accumulated legal bills of more than half a million dollars, she said last week."

[Daddy]

A final comment before bed.

Tonight Condy Rice was on Leno and she was magnificent. Way better than Obama last night if you care to compare. Applause greeted every genuine, intelligent statement she made, and even 1 time when Jay rushed on to a new question, the sincere applause from the audience forced him to set his paper down, delay his question, and applaud along. No longer was she the despised, detested servant of an evil George Bush. Tonight she was an exceptionally warm, intelligent stateswoman, and an unappologetic proponent of the former President and how he dealt with the challenges he faced. She did an outstanding job as a non-bitter, non-partisan spokesman, in trying to make the audience aware of the challenges facing this new bunch, and against repeated offered opportunities from Leno to bash Obama, she responded with a graciousness that has been sore lacking in politics these last many years. Her behavior was exemplary, the admirable behavior of a true statesman, and she acted with a general decency such as neither she nor the former Administration had oft recieved. Take a bow Miss Rice. This country would be so much the better had the media and your political opposition acted with such class, character and decorum these last 8 years as you exhibited tonight. By your grace and dignity you shame them.

[Porchlight]

Thanks for sharing that about Condi, Daddy. I didn't always agree with the choices she made as Secretary of State, but I admire her very much.

[hit and run]

AIG Exec VP resigns from AIG-FP -- and the NYT publishes his http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/opinion/25desantis.html?_r=2&ref=opinion>letter of resignation.

I am proud of everything I have done for the commodity and equity divisions of A.I.G.-F.P. I was in no way involved in — or responsible for — the credit default swap transactions that have hamstrung A.I.G. Nor were more than a handful of the 400 current employees of A.I.G.-F.P. Most of those responsible have left the company and have conspicuously escaped the public outrage.

After 12 months of hard work dismantling the company — during which A.I.G. reassured us many times we would be rewarded in March 2009 — we in the financial products unit have been betrayed by A.I.G. and are being unfairly persecuted by elected officials. In response to this, I will now leave the company and donate my entire post-tax retention payment to those suffering from the global economic downturn. My intent is to keep none of the money myself.

I take this action after 11 years of dedicated, honorable service to A.I.G. I can no longer effectively perform my duties in this dysfunctional environment, nor am I being paid to do so. Like you, I was asked to work for an annual salary of $1, and I agreed out of a sense of duty to the company and to the public officials who have come to its aid. Having now been let down by both, I can no longer justify spending 10, 12, 14 hours a day away from my family for the benefit of those who have let me down.

Oh, there's lot more at the link. Read it.

[bad]

That was an interesting letter, Hit. Humanizing, for sure.

But wait!!! Rich executives aren't human are they. They're just greedy $%^&* that deserve to be demonized and their families terrorized....

[hit and run]

Well, if anyone wants to see the bailout money that AIG has received some day come back to the taxpayers, then running off the likes of DeSantis seems counterproductive.

But hey, I would be willing to give it a shot at a salary at 1/4th* the amount Mr. DeSantis got in his bonus (that he is now going to donate to charity).

Mr. Liddy, call me!

[cathyf]

But hey, I would be willing to give it a shot at a salary at 1/4th* the amount Mr. DeSantis got in his bonus (that he is now going to donate to charity).

Hey, me too! And I even have a risk system already! And a supercomputer! (Ok, so it won't value the cds's, but any of that collateral that can be modeled as a series of cashflows, hey, we can do that.)

[clarice]

Hit and Cathy, see Mr PUK, He's setting up SCAM BUYOUTS Ltd..and sure could use the two of you.

[Thomas Jackson]

Why is that the leftwingnut jobs always describe these outrages as something "reasonable" people can disagree on but scream with outrage when a terrorist has his phone calls intercepted?

Or why they object at measures designed to protect us against our enemies but have no difficulty with the government controlling all your medical data.

And we all know that government employees don't look at tax returns, passports, and anything else that catches their fancy.

Or those FBI fuiles at the White House during the Clinton era?

Yes reasonable people certainly will find something to find objectionable.

I hope each of the school personnel involved is made bankrupt and penniless.

[Ritsumei]

I remember those communal showers in Junior High ('92-'95). They were, in fact, humiliating and awful. I tried to talk my parents into writing me a note to escape. It wasn't the showering that I objected to: given some decent privacy I'd've gladly washed myself. But there was no privacy and no escape. And no washing, either, as it turns out. We went into the shower room, milled around trying our best not to see anything, and then collected our towels as little wet as possible.