My Newfound Respect For Ezra Klein

Mickey Kaus gets behind the Journolist curtain and reveals the left's Best and Brightest at what we can only hope is neither their best nor brightest.  I applaud Journolist founder Ezra Klein, who can't be getting paid enough to read this bilge.  Especially amusing are the call-outs to Ezra from other posters imploring him to stop their mutual descent into juvenile snark.  Too late!

Let's cut right to the lowlights:

But I agree with Jon that the tendency to lapse into name-calling, or making broad assumptions about people who aren't on this list, seems at minimum like it's not the best use of our time, and at worst, unworthy of this very smart, very funny community.  It bothered me when folks where making totally unsubstantiated comments about [REDACTED!--mk]'s sex life, and it bothers me when folks make [REDACTED] jokes.  To be clear, I'm totally open to legitimate commentary on the substance of anyone's argument, and people should get smacked down if they lie, if they get things wrong, etc.  I think analyzing Peretz's writing about Mexicans, or Palestinians, or whoever, is totally fair game.  But saying that [REDACTED] clearly must not have a girlfriend, or speculating about who [REDACTED] gets turned down by sexually are not arguments.  We wouldn't take similar statements remotely seriously if they were made by conservatives about anyone on this list.

Somebody clearly does not have a girlfriend?  Geez, does that mean he needs to, uhh, find some other way to relax, or do are we getting a whiff of homophobia on the Journolist?  We already have been alerted to the presence of anti-semites there.

Well, the list clearly provides the kind of rollicking, no-holds-barred (and off the record!) debate that will get this country back on track.

Projected pushback - we don't always sound like whining a**-h**** with too much free time.  That'll work!

WHY THEY SECRETLY THANK MICKEY KAUS: The only thing a paranoid lefty loves better than being in a secret, exclusive group is being in an oppressed exclusive group.  Catnip!  Ahh, for the Bush days when they could whisper about being wiretapped.

SINCE YOU ASKED, WE CAN SERIOUS UP:

The Journolist pablum-toss centered around this passage from Marty Peretz, which is denounced as "crazy-ass racist":

Well, I am extremely pessimistic about Mexican-American relations, not because the U.S. had done anything specifically wrong to our southern neighbor but because a (now not quite so) wealthy country has as its abutter a Latin society with all of its characteristic deficiencies:  congenital corruption, authoritarian government, anarchic politics, near-tropical work habits, stifling social mores, Catholic dogma with the usual unacknowledged compromises, an anarchic counter-culture and increasingly violent modes of conflict.  Then, there is the Mexican diaspora in America, hard-working and patriotic but mired in its untold numbers of illegals, about whom no one can talk with candor.

The obvious rebuttal - he is describing cultural, not racial, chracteristics - gets a dismissive mention.

Amanda Marcotte, who clearly is fully qualified to be a Journolister, develops the point.  What's fun is that she is so committed to her "He's a racist!" argument that she gets stuck writing stuff like this:

I’m unsure how Peretz manages to work in both stereotypes about how Mexicans are relentlessly hard-working with stereotypes about how they’re lazy and addicted to siestas, but the ways of blatant racists (and their ability to hold contradictory stereotypes in their heads) will always be a mystery.

Its inexplicable if Peretz is describing race, obvious if he is describing culture.  Since, like many lefties, Ms. Marcote apparently needs to think that those with whom she disagrees are racist (or sexist, or some other -ist, like homophobic-ist), Mr. Peretz's views will remain unfathomable to her.  And even better, since he is a deplorable something or other -ist, she does not need to engage any of his arguments ever.  It's the same game Barney Frank played with Scalia.  So much easier to shut down debate than have it out, yes?

[end of thread]

Comments

[verner]

What losers! And from loser publications like the NATION and those Soros funded propaganda sites that Alterman--who has got to be one of the most obnoxious human beings on earth--write for.

And now we know why mag subscriptions are dropping. Why on earth would anybody care what a bunch petty backstabbing adolescent gossips have to say.

[hit and run]

TM:
like many lefties, Ms. Marcote apparently needs to think that those with whom she disagrees are racist (or sexist, or some other -ist, like homophobic-ist)

Well she is herself a Journol-ist

[Porchlight]

Thanks, TM! I knew you'd do justice to this fascinating and complex topic.

[clarice]

"Only you...." runs through my head at the TM description of these wastrels.

[Appalled]

My conclusion is that we in this comment section need to replace all Journolisters. We're better analysts, for the most part, and really, we are much more imaginative with our invective.

It is nice to know that best and the brightest still manage to produce stuff that looks like a parody of overnight comments on daily kos.

[verner]

And we wonder why the democrats are proposing state owned newspapers. How about so their little shills will have a paycheck.

Socialism, and the state control of media production is the only way the mediocre can compete fairly.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

So much easier to shut down debate than have it out, yes?

This would fit on the previous thread too.

[verner]

My conclusion is that we in this comment section need to replace all Journolisters.

We're also better educated, better writers, and have the guts to make our thoughts public, often in our own names.

[Greg Toombs]

Conservatives were once accused of being unable to hold "contradictory thoughts in their heads". So I guess that makes Marty Peretz a liberal. A bad liberal according to Amanda, but a member of her team nonetheless.

[Jim Ryan]

The profs in these lefties' pinko English and Poli Sci classes taught them by example that it's impossible to criticize a society's culture without criticizing its race unless the society's people are white.

[Greg Toombs]

I should hasten to point out the ability to hold simultaneous contradictory notions in one's head was a key attribute of nuance. Nuance was once viewed by liberals as an important value.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I should hasten to point out the ability to hold simultaneous contradictory notions in one's head was a key attribute of nuance. Nuance was once viewed by liberals as an important value.

I think it still is, as long as it's the same contradictory notions all the other bien pensants hold.

[clarice]

We do seem as a society to have lost the art of civil discussion and debate, haven't we?

At cocktail parties I run for the hills when people start talking politics bcause it is straight out of Games People Play--Eric Bernes' description of time wasting posing as communication.

[Nick]

Keep up the good work, I really enjoy your blog, and check it out every day.

Thanks,
Nick
www.notoriouslyconservative.com

[Paul Zrimsek]

The compleat Journolister would be someone who, casting about for an example of TNR's sins, stumbles blindfold past Glass and Beauchamp and lights upon... Betsy McCaughey?

[PeterUK]

Amanda Marcotte is barely literate.Dennis the Peasant regularly iviscerates her confused,leaden prose on his site.

[PeterUK]

"eviscerates".Anyway,Dennis duffs her up good.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Bai Ling's English is broken but read between the lines.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Speaking of viscera spilled:

Since there is no way to validate their model results for the time period 2070-2100 and the IPCC models have not even demonstrated skill in predicting regional climate extremes for the current climate, the results in the Fowler and Ekström are just hypotheses. It is a disppointing statement of climate science that hypotheses, which have not been tested, are presented as papers in the literature.

[clarice]

Charlie, All I read is that you're trying to seduce her.

[matt]

Obama's speech on Afghanistan sounded like that old Rogers & Hart show tune, "Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered".

"We'll just shut that corruption down right here in River City, yessir!"

maybe they can send Sheriff Joe to town to show them Afghans how it's done out West in Delaware.....

[Fresh Air]

TM--

I would like to offer a plea to end new threads on the Moron-List. This has been done to death already. These people are bedwetting 20- and 30-somethings with fancy degrees and common sense of a housefly. Let's not waste any more pixels on them. Thanks for your understanding.

[Jim Ryan]

bedwetting 20- and 30-somethings with fancy degrees and common sense of a housefly

Goodness! Congressmen are that young?

[Daddy]

Welcome aboard Nick, and Middle Aged Lurker, and Dorothy Jane and everyone else. I am heartened to see all the new blood showing up at JOM. That in itself is worthy of analysis and a post, but I got to go shovel the driveway, so I leave that to smarter folks than I.

[Rick Ballard]

"with fancy degrees and common sense of a housefly"

FA,

"Credentialed morons" sums it up. I think you may be significantly overstating their common sense. I never chide TM on subject matter, even when it consists of making fun of the severely limited. I know it's rather cruel but it is now at least arguably Presidential (although in his case it was unintentionally self referential - that or a Telobama error).

[StrawmanCometh]

Daddy, you shoveling ash or snow?

[Bill Kilgore]

Tom, read you for a while but this is my first comment. I have a question for you.

In the quoted portion there are 4 redacted items. 1,3, and 4 seem to contain personal names and redacting(?) in that situation seems reasonable. The second redacted item however appears to be a generic racial or ethnic slur that was redacted despite the fact it wouldn't personally hurt anyone, save for the person(s) making the comment. Is that appropriate in this matter?

The fact is that if that word were not redacted, a lot of the people who appear on the list may well be out of a job. There are literally hundreds of words that you could envision there leading to that result and very few that you can envision there that wouldn't lead to such a result.

Now MK is under no obligation to do anything with respect to the list but I wanted your feelings on my thought that the second redaction(?) should be uncovered. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

* No time for a dictionary or proofreading- sue me.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Charlie, All I read is that you're trying to seduce her.

Not that I wouldn't, but read the part about sneaking in to the radio to try to tune in Taiwan -- and recall (if you ever knew) that Miss Bai grew up in the People's Republic.

[Fresh Air]

Rick--

Welcome back to Amerikka. Pitch forks and tar are on your right. Mediacrats ready for feathering on your left. We've got a two-for-one today on toad-shaped toadies, with both Axelfeathers and Barneyhackles available.

I'm afraid I suffer from Credentialed Moron Fatigue as AoS nailed this thing so hard I cried. Sample comment on Ezra:

Who the [bleep] takes a 25 year old who has never done anything accept go to college and spew, seriously? No wonder this country is going to [bleep].

[Fresh Air]

Ace's commenters don't pay much attention to spelling and grammar, but you've got to admire the pungency of the writing.

[bad]

Moronlisters all voted for Obama and continue to adore his stupid ass. Of Course they sound like idiots. They are idiots.

Bless their hearts...

[MayBee]

We do seem as a society to have lost the art of civil discussion and debate, haven't we?

That's my thought about the whole thing. The writers spend so much time in the JournoList bubble, spewing invective has become quite acceptable.

Witness JournoLister's Joe Klein. This summer he called John McCain scurrilous and took to openly referring to him as something like Senator Sleaze (I can't find the exact phrase).

I'm sure it had become second nature to hear and write such things. That's the problem with JournoList, in my eyes.

[MayBee]

Charlie- Bai Ling is bat-shit crazy

[Charlie (Colorado)]

what we can only hope is neither their best nor brightest

... but that's the way to bet.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Charlie- Bai Ling is bat-shit crazy

Yup. She's cute, too.

[roux]

Well how well did it work out by calling anyone who called for over site of Fannie Mae and CEO Franklin Raines a racist?

Not so well...

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Speaking of Fannie and Freddie, this is somewhat amusing:

As Freddie Mac executives were preparing their annual 10-K financial disclosure this month, they reported that carrying out the Obama administration's housing plan would cost $30 billion this year. That sum would have to be covered by the Treasury Department. The federal government has pledged to cover $200 billion each in losses for Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, of which the pair have asked for about $60 billion.

The housing agency asked that the cost of the program be withheld and that the firm soften language describing how government management was undercutting profitability, according to sources.

[Mike Huggins]

Witness JournoLister's Joe Klein...

Yeah, Klein Joe recently got all Julius Striecher with the "Neocon mob" who "assassinated" poor, poor Chas Freeman.

[Mike Huggins]

Es tut mir leid!
"Striecher" = "Streicher"

[clarice]

Charlie, I did figure out where she's from..

[clarice]

She's pretty, she's nuts and she's from Communist China. Sounds perfect.

[clarice]

Mike, There's a weird aura at JOM which persuades many fingers (esp mine) to mistype..

[bad]

Moronlist is really just Facebook or Myspace without (hopefully) the inappropriate pictures and sexting links.

But the Morons are trying to pretend it's an elite professional group.

Whatev....

[Rick Ballard]

"But the Morons are trying to pretend it's an elite professional group."

Well, it is the voice of the Moronacracy. "Elite" in the instance must be understood in terms of "The World's Tallest Midgets Club".

[bad]

Once again, I bow in your direction many times, Rick. LOL

[Danube of Thought]

"We wouldn't take similar statements remotely seriously if they were made by conservatives about anyone on this list."

No one would take any of that crap seriously whether it came from conservatives, liberals, royalists or whigs. It is juvenile nonsense.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

She's pretty, she's nuts and she's from Communist China. Sounds perfect

You left out "she has a really sexy voice and she doesn't like wearing clothes."

[hit and run]

I miss the old JOM Cabal.

Though, it coulda used more invective, I suppose.

[hit and run]

Actually Charlie, all those things describe me -- except "she" and "from Communist China".

Just so you know.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Actually Charlie, all those things describe me -- except "she"

Well, I suppose it's kind of narrow of me, but that is suboptimal.

You're also married, and that's a dealbreaker.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Keine Leid zu tun, Mike. Es macht gar nichts.

[syn]

For such a sophisticated and worldly class of people they seem to miss the cultural practice of siesta is a long-standing tradition in most all Mediterranean and Latin countries; the only people who working between 2 and 4 pm are serving the touristas.

The 2 hour afternoon nap time is most likely the reason why these countries never actually get things done.

[Mike Huggins]

weird aura at JOM which persuades many fingers (esp mine) to mistype.. Clarice, mistyping is one thing I do pretty well just about anywhere, even with the benefit of multiple "Preview" button pushes.

[Tom Maguire]

I would like to offer a plea to end new threads on the Moron-List. This has been done to death already.

I'll stop when they do! Besides, your suggestion conflicts with the letter and spirit of No Dead Horse Left Unbeaten.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

What, pray tell, is a Bai Ling?

Followed Charlie's link and still couldn't tell much, other than she has some sort of Tourette's stutter regarding the word 'naked'.

[clarice]

I like that NDHLU theme--carry on,Tom!

[bad]

Meghan McCain is a good fit with the Moron-list...it's all about her...

[clarice]

Isn't she though, bad? Looks like it's time someone gave her the hook.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

What, pray tell, is a Bai Ling?

Bai Ling (白玲) is a Chinese actress and singer, born in Sichuan. Her family name 白 "bai" means "White", her personal name 玲 "ling" means "Clever". First movie I saw her in was the first Crow with Brendan Lee; she was also in a pretty cool miniseries version of The Journey to the West called The Monkey King. Her English isn't super-strong, which is why her blog is a little odd. It's a lot like what Mandarin would sound like if you translated it word for word.

She's also known for her, um, creative fashion sense and for some difficulty keeping her clothes on.

[bad]

Clarice, my bigger fear about her is that because she is so intellectually shallow, flattery from the left will cause her to dish "inside dirt" on Palin, straight from her overactive imagination nuanced by her need for attention.

[verner]

Meghan MC Cain graduated from Columbia University. Enough Said.

[Jim Ryan]

U.N. 'Climate Change' Plan Would Likely Shift Trillions to Form New World Economy, link via PW, and you can click through to a pdf document.

[Jim Ryan]

Oh, Charlie, another term you'll like: 'doxastic incontinence'. Nice one, eh? Jumping to conclusions on insufficient evidence.

[Jim Ryan]

Meghan MC Cain graduated from Columbia University. Enough Said.

I'll bet. How many courses did she take with him, exactly?

[clarice]

Chaco, It definitely looks like Bai needs a rescuer. I'll lend you my white steed.

[hit and run]

Bad:
Clarice, my bigger fear about her is that because she is so intellectually shallow, flattery from the left will cause her to dish "inside dirt" on Palin

Over at Huffpo, there's a piece on http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bonnie-fuller/cougars-and-milfs-rule-40_b_179465.html>cougars vs youngins. or something.

40 is the new 20. or something.

Anyway, the piece ends with a series of polls, to see whether an older or younger woman is hotter. And of course, you know where this is going, right?

Sarah Palin v Meghan McCain

So....who's winning, you ask?

Who's Hotter?
Sarah Palin
49.87%

Meghan McCain
50.13%

Wow, for HuffPo, I find this rather unbelievable.

[bad]

Oh GEEZ, Hit. It's worse than my over active imagination, nuanced with bitter cynicism, could imagine.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Wow, some of those were difficult choices.

I would have said "hard" but I knew I'd never hear the end if it.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

And just to be clear, if given the choice between Sarah Palin and Meghan McCain, my definite answer would be "yes, please."

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Something interesting on Kudlow just now -- a guy suggesting that instead of Geithner's scheme, there should be a special "systemic bankruptcy court". Interesting idea.

[Extraneus]

My favorite part was how pathetically, after all these years, they still whine about how Betsy McCaughey singed their asses.

Also fun was that everyone now knows their private email addys. Heh.

I bet this isn't all Kaus has on them.

[bad]

I bet this isn't all Kaus has on them.

Delicious prospect....

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Brad Sherman is on the TV right now talking about the AIG thing. He clearly (a) doesn't understand a thing about what's going on, and (b) is really pissed off when someone dares to suggest "a".

[bad]

I just saw a headline at Politico about Richard Holbrooke's charm and influence.

He should have used both at AIG during his tenure there.

[PaulL]

I was a member of an elite list (nonpolitical in nature) back in the 1990s. There were around two dozen people on it, many of whom had delusions of grandeur. You think I fit in well with that crowd? And I say, "Pretentious, moi?"

So wouldn't you know they started badmouthing a friend of mine who was not on the list, and I told him about it. My friend began posting about it at another site that they accessed.

The list owner found the leaker, me, and had me banned. I could no longer access their posts. And boy was he ever proud of his detective work.

I promptly got another guy on the list that I knew to forward me all the secret posts. The badmouthing continued and I continued to tell my friend what was being said about them. He continued to fight back.

The list owner went nuts trying to figure out how the info was reaching the public when I, the leaker, had been kicked out. I was soon approached by a buddy of the owner to rejoin, but I refused, on the grounds that I had been falsely accused and unfairly banned. Ah, it was a lot of fun, let me tell you. They never did figure it out.

So to the case at hand, with 300 "journalists" or whatever it was, good luck figuring out who is making it available. It's not me, though, I'll tell you that.

Look for the Journolist to dissolve, reform with a tighter roster, and then just when everyone thinks it's safe again to defame those not present, for new leaks to issue forth.

[bad]

Hilarious, PaulL!! I'd make a comment about whores, etc. but see no need to disparage a group by comparing them to Moron-list.

[narciso]

They are actually as disordered as their onscreen personas indicate. Betsy Macaughey
is an odd character, she came to attention in her "No Exit piece, ended up Lieutenant
Governor, and then went prematurely Kathleen
Parker(dissing the GOP),than came back against the new health care plan, some weeks ago,

Now I've heard of ideological blindness, at the Huff Po, but seriously now, they have the same prescription as that Daily Mail
fashion editor, who called her 'a sexless
hockey mom' despite the 150,000 wardrobe'
but raved over Michelle Obama. In other strange meme news, the Obamico, piggybacking
off Gawker, ricocheting off the Huff Po is painting Sarah as the Zenuvian candidate because of Mr. & Mrs. Van Susteren efforts
on behalf of her. As to the former point, one suspects she has already been a source
for some of the more ridiculous campaign rumors.

The world is more insane than when I was last in D.C, a month ago, Gitmo detainees
are not only being released, but they will be settled in this country, that couldn't possibly go wrong. Reid, the comic relief
from Casino, who didn't vote for Roberts,
is now complaining that he lied to him, Cars in California, can't be painted black
anymore, because they don't reflect enough
light ,and hence contribute to global warming. The UN is following up the cap n' trade effort (which failed magnificently in Spain)with a trillion dollar regulatory effort, and Timmy the Tiger, as Tina Brown
calls him after too many cosmopolitans, wants the dollar to have the value of monopoly money, Did I leave any lunacy out.

[PD]

The tentacles of JOM reach even into the NCAA Tournament. CBS just put up a stats graphic:

"BAD 3-PT SHOOTING"

Way to go, bad!

[bad]

Thanks PD. I was hoping everyone would notice... I'm the tall, black guy...

[RichatUF]

narciso-

Did I leave any lunacy out...

Hummm...Maybe we shouldn't have made that left turn in Albuquerque.

[MayBee]

It's not me, though, I'll tell you that.

Methinks PaulL doth protest too much.

[PD]

she was also in a pretty cool miniseries version of The Journey to the West called The Monkey King.

Is this the one? I see it has Ric Young, Mr. Botox Torture guy on Alias that Sydney put in a wheelchair.

[PD]

Wow, for HuffPo, I find this rather unbelievable.

Yeah, it means they're moving on to more serious topics than normally.

[PD]

Heh. Hannity's showing Obama's speech today on Afghanistan, interspersed with clips from a Bush speech on Afghanistan.

Short version: Obama's ideas are all Bush's ideas.

[Uncle BigBad]

Kay Bailey Hutch, who's challenging Rick Perry in the gub primary, has posted on her webside a snide editorial mocking Palin endorsement of Perry.

Bye, Bye, Kay.

[Rocco]

Very funny bad...reminds me of these childish games

[narciso]

That was a remarkably stupid move, in a Northeastern State, possibly even in some MidWestern states, but in Texas. You know she had won some points voting against Geithner while Cornyn voted for; I'll never
figure that out. How's that vote workin' out for you John, btw.

[Uncle BigBad]

I had high hopes for Cornyn, but he's beginning to look like a weak sister. During his first run for Senate, I drove him around Abilene, during his brief campaign stops.

[Extraneus]

Has anyone heard back from ezra.klein@gmail.com regarding their request for entry to the jlist yet?

[bad]

What is Kay Baily thinking!! She was disparaged in high school fashion by Molly Ivens for years. Now she's dissing Palin using an SNL skit.

STUPID STUPID STUPID

[bad]

Now for a breath of fresh air, Mark Steyn:This is the point:

The nuancey boys were wrong on Obama, and the knuckledragging morons were right. There is no post-partisan centrist "grappling" with the economy, only a transformative radical willing to make Americans poorer in the cause of massive government expansion. At some point, The Economist, Messrs Brooks, Buckley & Co are going to have to acknowledge this. If they're planning on spending the rest of his term tutting that his management style is obstructing the effective implementation of his centrist agenda, it's going to be a long four years.

"Nuancey boys" is sooo easily misread as "nancy boys" but I'm sure that's entirely coincidental.

LUN

[Uncle BigBad]

Apologies to weak sisters. I've been annoyed by Hutchinson since the Tailhook scandal. She was on the Armed Services Committee and could have spoken up and saved the careers of several innocent pilots, but she remained silent.

And now, just what we don't need--a gub primary fight and an open senate seat.

[Molon Labe]

May I suggest that you add page number navigation in the comments?

That is, instead of just ">>" and "<<", have hyperlinked numerals for each page.

You leave and come back, you gotta click through sometimes several pages of comments - stopping on each one long enough to discern "Is this where I left off"?

[Molon Labe]

I do realize that the concept of leaving JOM may be a bit difficult to grasp for many of you.

[Porchlight]

Eff KayBay. Perry isn't perfect but I'll take him over her any day.

Molon Labe, we've pulled our hair out over the pagination for a couple of months now and have sort of given up. Not sure if TM has run out of options or if he has just decided not to explore them. It really does suck - even when I'm trying to stay engaged with the thread, I find myself getting frustrated.

[PD]

I do realize that the concept of leaving JOM may be a bit difficult to grasp for many of you.

Are you being held here against your will?

[mel]

bad-

Senator's are "go along to get along" types.

You know that.

Night.

[Molon Labe]

Ah, I knew that crack would have interpretive problems. By "leave" I mean "visit another site". Temporarily. Try it some time.

[clarice]

"If they're planning on spending the rest of his term tutting that his management style is obstructing the effective implementation of his centrist agenda, it's going to be a long four years."

God, I love Steyn!

[bad]

I know Mel, but I thought her personal experience with envy driven excrementcloaked as opinion might up her integrity factor a little. My bad.

Sweet dreams Mel.