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March 21, 2009



Gee, vjnjagvet. Just trying to endear myself to the only people I think would help when it gets really bad, and that definitely includes you.

hit and run

At this point, we are better off without a president than with the one we have.

Obama has been elected to a position too big to fail, but he has proven himself too failed to be this big.


Chris Mooney has a new article in the WaPo which repeats a couple of failing canards. One is that the trend in Arctic Ice is to less of it. That was true up until a year and a half ago. The other is that we are not cooling, though both atmosphere and oceans have been cooling now for four years. The ocean temperatures are really most key, because the climate is the continuation of the ocean by other means.

And the sunspots? Where are the sunspots? Well, they are going away, for how long even kim doesn't know.

Heh, nor does Leif Svalgaard.


I was watching that Heidi game, with my Dad, who was a Giants fan but was willing to watch Jets games with me. I can only hope the Idol fans don't experience the same level of trauma.


I can only hope the Idol fans don't experience the same level of trauma.

It might be good if they did, actually. For our side.


vnjagvet:"It is scary, Clarice. You've been a Washington hand for a long time. Have you ever seen anything like it?"

Never. Never saw a takeoff this inept. Never. IIRC it took quite some time for people to catch on to Carter--the failed hostage rescue in Iran being the final straw.

Rick Ballard

"At this point, we are better off without a president than with the one we have."

We pretty much are without a President. We have a candidate and a permanent campaign but this "get his face on TV" hasn't worked at all like it says it should in the The Dirty Socialist Playbook. This isn't Cuba or Venezuela and although we really do have a significant number of ignorant fools, we don't have quite enough of them for these Moveon dopes to be really effective.

I'd like to see comparisons with Bubba's early numbers rather than with those of Bush. Bubba actually held up OK, if I remember correctly, until RW jumped on the socialist broom with health care. If Telobama gets to negative numbers next week then we should see even more wheels coming off.

I feel a little relieved that this clown is as, if not more, incompetent as we had presumed him to be. He doesn't even seem to realize that the Clinton retreads are stabbing him in the back every day.


Kim, all you have to do is go to AZ and look at the sites of the Anasazi people, or note the mini ice ages and warming periods we have had within the last 1,000 years to know that THE CLIMATE IS CHANGING ALL THE TIME.

And there is nothing we can do about it.

For all they know, it might end up being a good thing that we have a little extra carbon in the air.


Bear in mind, with respect to the sunspots, that we are at a solar minimum when spots are sparse anyway. Spots should increase over the next few years. However two very interesting things are happening. One is that the ramp-up to Solar Cycle 24 is now a full two years later than it was originally expected. This is not very surprising because the science of predicting the length of solar cycles is not settled and precise. The other peculiarity is that the internal magnetism of the few spots we do see is being measured by Bill Livingston, and it is on a decline curve to the spots being too cool to be visible by 2015. This is not to say that the internal dynamo that produces sunspots is failing; it probably isn't. But it is some evidence for the sun entering some kind of Grand or Lesser Minimum like the Maunder Minimum and the Dalton Minimum. The earth cooled then, but there were also series of volcanoes both times which clearly cool the earth. There are even a few who associate solar minimums with increased vulcanism, but that is a minority view, and there is certainly no mechanism known to account for it.

Interesting times, and not just politically.


vernor, if we are cooling for twenty, or a hundred years, then the small warming effect of CO2 and the large plant fertilizing effect of CO2 will save many many lives of those living on the margin. In other words, instead of saving us from a warming catastrophy encumbering carbon will precipitate us into a cooling holocaust. By the time the climate returns to warming we may well have a real handle on the effect of CO2, and can encumber it at our leisure, and not be panicked into a hysterical reaction.

This is a huge and deadly policy mistake, and I'm very glad to see it has been put on the back burner by Congressional Democrats. Now, the people of Europe just have to rebel and the Copenhagen Accords may become relatively toothless. The only reason the third world supports carbon encumbering is that they expect to use Western guilt to hang the bulk of it on developed nations, decreasing our relative productivity.

This is a debate with huge consequences.


comment at One Cosmos blog:

If this were a movie, it would be like a bad slasher flick. You can see the danger from miles away, but the ditzy, starry-eyed coed ignores all the obvious warning signs and runs, half-naked and heaving-bosomed, straight into the lair of her waiting doom. Where she promptly gets brutally slaughtered. Or (a la the recent run of torture films) first slowly and methodically tortured, broken (physically and mentally) and dismembered, until she's begging for death....Except that this movie would be so hackneyed, poorly-acted, cliched and predictable that people would be walking out within the first ten minutes.

Amen, sister.


We pretty much are without a President

Absolutely right Rick. And for proof--how many of those essential executive appointments has he made? Last week it was 72 out of around 1,200. And at treasury? Is Geithner still over there picking his nose all alone?

But if Freeman, Ms. La Raza who had to get a lobbiest waver, the IT guru, Richard--AIG--Holbrook, and the lefty fruitcakes at DOJ are prime examples of what he has in mind for his administration, may we all be blessed with four years of empty seats.

At least Gates is still there. I'm hoping the DOD can work on auto pilot in case of "man made disaster."



I really don't know when the UK went completely wacky, but it really is beyond belief now. 500 female circumcisions/year, the environuts, the surveillance culture, the drunks..I lived there in the late 1970's and experienced the strikes, but Maggie put it right. Now, there seems to be no one at the controls except the politically correct police. God save the Queen. literally. He son has become an embarassment.


her son....


Kim I want to thank you. You are my go to person on all things global warming.

You present your point of view with FACTS--while all the global warming hysterics try to shout down any and all dissent.

And after the exposure of the Lancet study as an example of a dirty scientist trying to push his politics, we know we should never trust those who don't want to debate the issue.

Real scientists welcome well structured debate as long as it is based on good science--something that is now totally lacking. What we're now seeing is more akin to Soviet Science.


"He son has become an embarassment."

May QE2 live to be 120.

Her jug-eared moron of a son is the poster child for everything Tom Paine ever said about the monarchy.


...but Maggie put it right

Maggie showing Senate Republicans how one deals with "the liberal party" and their 3.6T budget...LUN

Rick Ballard


I believe that Clarice nailed the appointments bit right at the beginning. He has his "shadow cabinet" sitting on their putrid asses under the cover of that 501 whatever and he's having a very hard time finding anyone to take the "front" positions for a dirty socialist administration.

Who wants to work as a front man for a dirty lying thief - without the opportunity to even steal for themselves? As the stench coming off of him grows by the hour, the problem will become greater.

I just hope they keep stuffing the buffoon on TV. The real ridicule hasn't even started yet.


Rick,I wonder if John Stewart will make any Obama/Special Olympics jokes on Comedy Central?

You can only shill for so long until you start losing audience share--just look at MSNBC and CNN!


"Jim, what is going to happen? It is getting scary." per Clarice

I don't KNOW what's going to happen, but I think we're fortunate that The One is not the politician that Bill C was. He's overplaying his hand.

IF he sends the "O Men" to Wyoming, many of them may go home in body bags.

There's reason for concern, Weimar Germany gives us clues of what to be concerned about, but Germany didn't have the American individualism tradition (and the wide-spread gun ownership) that we have.

Don't forget, as well, that our system relies on a near 90% VOLUNTARY compliance with the IRS --- it's one of our rather anomalous traits --- if we were to devolve to the kind of situation that Europe (or our Congress) actually has, there would be major difficulties.

I think that those who suggest that BHO is simply playing the hand that his liberal intelligentsia "familiars" have handed him are probably correct. The academics have no real world experience. It's "details of implementation" that are likely to screw up his grandiose plans.

It's fortunate for the country that he's trying too much too fast.

Even Washington, DC, for all its "sophistication" and contemptuous disregard of the "six pack Joes" out there, has a LOT of people who believe in the rule of law, and due process.

If BHO were to have moved more slowly, he would, I THINK, have been more likely to succeed.

I hope I'm right, but I still get nervous.

All the Best,



That's a good point Verner, would we want the likes of Freeman, a Saudi and Chinese retainer, anywhere involved in National Security, Holbrooke has no South Asian experience, last time I checked so why is he handling the former Raj territories, India, Pakistan, & Afghanistan. William Lynn having actually had Defense experience
is a plus, Holder, well you know how
ludicrous the idea of such a figure at Justice seems to me. Gates seems the most sane in the group, although he's not the hardliner he was back in the 90s.


Well, thanks, vernor. I'm completely and destructively obsessed with climate. It couldn't have been turned around without the globe starting to cool when it did, and the battle is still closely fought. But this business of the Democrats saying cool it on Cap and Trade is probably a tipping point.


(Lots of excitement around here today. My grand daughter got admitted to her parent's first choice for elementary school--the UCLA lab school. Don't even ask. But I do think it'll be a good school for her.)

My impression from the tidbits you've shared is that your grand daughter needs a school that will deal well with gifted children. I'm sure her parents already know that and selected her school accordingly.

Please do give us anecdotes from her school experiences.


Thanks, bad. From what I can tell it's a very good fit and she was lucky to get in. There were 700 applicants for 40 slots..For the most part (unless you're a sibling of a student or the child of a movie star) selections are made randomly to achieve the same demographic balance that exists in California. A court challenge to this was lost , the Cal S Ct determining that as this was an experimental lab school they had the right to select students on the basis of race and economic background to test whether their methods work equally well across such a diverse group.

She just was very lucky to get in, in other words.


kim, Steele said today the globe is getting colder, not warmer. That should warm the cockles of your heart.


OK, kim, now you ripped it open. I've been biding my time, so bear with me.

I've mentioned, in the past, the declination of the Earth's own iron dynamo. It's decline is most easily measured as the weakening of the magnetic fields surrounding the Earth. The reason the magnetic poles exist is because of the magnetic moment (tech. term) of the molten iron core of the Earth. It works like a home made electro-magnet using a nail. Wrap wires around a nail, hook 'em up to a battery, and the nail becomes magnetic at either end. The trick to it is this. The electric wires, which is technically called electro-magnetism, convey a magnetic twist as the electric current runs straight down the wire. Twist the wire around something, like a nail, and the magnetism turns out to be straight Back to the Earth, the Earth spins, everyone "knows" that, except maybe Al Gore, well, that spin drags along the molten iron core for centuries and along it goes. Problem is, the only thing that maintains that "perfect spin" is a constant acceleration, Think of it this way, you're stirring a pot in the same direction. It make s a pretty swirl, the only way to keep it swirling is to up the push of the spoon a bit, continuously, vary it in any way, except faster, and the pot spin collapses into randomness.

The iron core does the exact same thing as the pot. It spins. We get magnetic poles. It stops accelerating, it tumbles into a mess. eventually. This would show up in a number of different ways, including bizarre magnetic readings near the equator. Like "El Nino", which has revers polarity, in case anyone wondered. This activity is disharmonic, or as some call it, chaos. Let's move on to the fun stuff, and this is open to argument, because I couldn't do the math to save my life. Oceanic currents, which are slowing, in case anyone wondered.

I posit, that chemicals, and their respective temperature gradients, are responsible for gravitic influences on the ocean currents, but directional flow is governed by the magnetic fields imposed on those chemical solutions.

To simplify, the ocean's waters are varying degrees of chemical compounds. Some have more salt, some more potassium, and so on. Each react differently under the influence of the Earth's magnetic field. Get enough of the same stuff together, and all those molecules will react in the same direction., while bonded together due to chemical similarities. Temperature plays the next part, governing the amount of a chemical a water molecule can absorb, which will determine, in turn, the amount of magnetic sensitivity oceanic water will contain.

In summation, if the magnetic dynamo of Earth is becoming disharmonious, the oceans currents should slow, and, due to the lack of movement, cool. This is simple physics. Incredibly difficult to prove.

Here's what kim tipped for me and sent me on my "rant".

"The other peculiarity is that the internal magnetism of the few spots we do see is being measured by Bill Livingston, and it is on a decline curve to the spots being too cool to be visible by 2015."

This is way too sympathetic an influence to dismiss, in my mind.

Thanks, kim, I've been waiting to spout off a bit on that. My favorite subject.


Oh, yes, it does cheer me very much, clarice. It means the Republicans intend to make an issue of it. It's a winner, too. We are cooling, folks, well, you know the drill.


revers polarity =reverse polarity.

And who stole my punctuation?

Edit! Edit!


Congratulations are in order, Clarice, for that wonderful opportunity. Not surprised that the Cal Sup. Court, would miss the whole point of a lab school, and try to apply public school rules, to such a situation. How do you do that in a state that has 47 languages and as many ethnicities


I'm not saying I disagree with the Ct decision--Personally I think the notion that different people in different cultures learn differently is overdone, but since ad asked I wanted to make it clear children are NOT selected on the basis of any special talents or achievements. The school in fact never sees them at all efore deciding which is a good thing because as far as i know her parents did not have a resume written up for her, gather up recommendations or coach her as so many desperate parents of 3 year old toddlers are doing in L.A. to avoid the generally wretched public schools.


Well, mel, I've not really run across that theory and truly, I'm not scientist enough to find the flaw in it. It may have something to it, though, because we do not know how the climate is regulated. The recent article by Tsonis about 'synchronized chaos' makes sense to me, in part because it doesn't contradict my belief that the Pacific Decadal Oscillation is the most important climate determinant, and that the sun ultimately determines climate, probably through its effect on Galactic Cosmic Rays. That Cosmic Ray theory of Svensmark could tie into your speculations because the earth's magnetic field also has a lot to do with the penetration of those rays.

Also, the sun is very sultry and we must avoid its ultry violet rays.

H/t Noel Coward. It's from 'Mad Dogs and Englishmen'.


Something happened to "b"

In my last post--bad , not ad..and before not efore..

And I meant to say I didn't necessary AGREE with the Ct decision..

(It's getting near my bedtime.)

hit and run

But if Freeman, Ms. La Raza who had to get a lobbiest waver, the IT guru, Richard--AIG--Holbrook, and the lefty fruitcakes at DOJ are prime examples of what he has in mind for his administration, may we all be blessed with four years of empty seats.

Well, my thoughts exactly, but let's go back to the campaign so as not to miss the teachable moment that foresight can be 20/20.

Any expectation that an Obama administration would be un-inept was not reality-based.

During the campaign Obama had 300 foreign advisors, and even in the face of such a deep bench numerically, it was shallow in its callowness (or callow in its shallowness)...we still got ourselves unconditional meetings with Iran, publicly declaring a unilateral invasion/bombing inside Pakistan, undivided Jerusalem one day and not so much the next, a campaign advisor holding talks with Hamas, Iran is a tiny country, Russia and Georgia should both show restraint, and don't get me started on "dignity promotion" being the cornerstone of Obama's foreign policy...etc.

I mean, let's face it. This is a guy who turned to someone who said Winnie the Pooh should help shape foreign policy as someone serious enough to help shape his foreign policy.

An Obama empty bench is probably a glass half full.

I believe that Clarice nailed the appointments bit right at the beginning. He has his "shadow cabinet" sitting on their putrid asses under the cover of that 501 whatever

Ugh. Nevermind. We're screwed.


The charter schools in Los Angeles are thriving despite the opposition of the teachers union. I know someone who's a big Dreamer and Charter School advocate there.


Well, first it ate my B's now the entire post I was referring to has vanished..Gosh typepad's ability to vanish posts should be worth a DoD grant to say the least.


Insty on Teaparties:

And reader Brian Gates reports from the scene: “Nice crowd. Lots of Reagan fans wearing this or this. There were also quite a few references to John Galt. I’ve been thinking of sending my representative copies of Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead. Sure, it’s 1800 pages, but the geniuses in Congress can read a thousand pages overnight….”



It's the next generation in stealth technology. as my six hours or so, in limbo proved. So is it anything like the Montessori method.



You just saw that theory for the first time, in print, anywhere. Didn't I mention what I'm, originally, trained in? I mentioned I can't put up the mathematics to "prove" it. Well, I f pushed I could get close, I used to work with wonks who would back me up on the math, then we'd test the proofs together. Much more fun.

When was the last time you stirred a big (at least a gallon) pot of soup? Try it, you'll see the motion I'm talking about, and it's not Brownian.

I'm really glad you have the imagination to try and visualize this stuff. Most people don't try to be kids again, and let their imagination loose.

Sorry about the rant, good stuff though.

I've got cable to pull tomorrow, so I'm off to the rack.

I know we'll continue this.

Night all.


Well, no wonder I hadn't run across it elsewhere. What about the vacuum that the earth is spinning in? And I'm not sure the ocean currents are slowing. There are constant changes in currents and thermohaline gradients, but I think they cycle.

Yah, imagination; one thing the diehard climate alarmists lack. They really can't see anything but CO2.


Funny you mention soup. Since my dog died I make split pea soup out of the remains of a ham, and I just did that yesterday. Sorry, I failed to quantify the dynamics of the stirring.

I can't decide which is a better use for an old hambone; dog delight or pea soup. I'd like to still be able to alternate. I've a cat now, who turns up his snotty little nose at hambone.


What bugs me is the coverage of the various protests. They had anti-war protests in DC and San Fran today and Yahoo news site had 6 stories with photos of the protests and tons of media were covering them. Orlando had more people attending the Tea Party and the people who held the party could identify 2 media people there. Yahoo did not have a single story about the Tea Parties even though they were held in Ct, NC, FL, KY, TN, MO, PA, OH. Not one story there at all.

If you were a regular citizen who got all your news from the TV and the newspaper and magazines, would you really even know about the tea parties? I am so fed up with the media that it is ridiculous.


Which every living thing emits, how do they get around that, kim, wait I don't want to know. Did these people never take Earth Science, or that part of the global warming paradigm.


Okay. I'm not that asleep yet.

Vacuum is Vacuum, a constant, nothing to it (physics joke!) ignore as a rule. The Earth spins in relativistic terms with the Sun, and our galaxy, not vacuums, in an energy sense.

The Gulfstream is definitely slowing. A Times of London piece on it from 2005 (LUN). Did you mean "thermocline"?

We'll have at it later, and work up my nerves to comment on Watt's, steam or no steam. You do realize that this is the subject that drew me hear in the first place, and frustration with inhabitants of sda who would say that the math lies when put in front of their faces. I got tired of that. Kate is a sweetheart, with a wicked, wicked sense of humor, but some of the crew is a bit like TCO, and others unmentioned.



Yes, it is biased coverage , but Congress critters know what's happening even if the press isn't giving the protests major coverage.

And when the press can only claim a couple hundred protesters against the war, it is rather pathetic.

Didja notice BTW only 20 or so folks showed up to harass the AIG families--there were about three times as many pressies as ACORN piggies.



Aaaagh! Aaaaaaugh! Use mind soap! Now! Get that out of your head!

Earth Science = Lazy Science, taught by english majors.

Aura? Gimme something to measure it with, and I'll tell you what it influences.


You'll get a fair hearing at Watts Up and possibly more feedback than you can handle. Pick a relevant thread. Another option is 'Unthreaded' at climateaudit.org Steve discourages speculation, preferring to concentrate on audits of studies used by the IPCC, but the rules are lax on 'Unthreaded'. If discussion doesn't ensue, you'll be guided to where discussion can take place, on another blog.


Thanks clarice-

that's a bit of a confirmation that things are waning.

Night all.

clarice, your turn to turn out the lights, I'll get the dog (Josie, the Beagador)!


Every living animal emits CO2, narciso. It's food for the plants. Something entirely ignored by the CO2 demonizers. Improve the plant kingdom, how can that be bad for the animals?


Heh, mel, my Dad, MGRHS, only earned a living in June and July every year by teaching earth science to high school teachers.

hit and run

I'd like to see comparisons with Bubba's early numbers rather than with those of Bush.

Your wish is my command.

And, because I like crayons...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/59013527@N00/3374804598/sizes/o/>Here is the pretty picture

Oh, and the Gallup polls it's based on:


Well it's not technically chemistry, closer to biology or meteorology, I was involved in that field, in high school, generally there's about 60% actual science in a good weather report, the rest is kind of random guess. but I do remember the part about CO2. So the distinction is really in
industrial release of CO2, I take it, so is cap n trade the answer, to a very complex system.


Okay. I'm not that asleep yet.

In my mind I see mel going to bed, mind still awhir, finally forced to rush to keyboard to set out more thoughts. Perhaps several times. :-)


Yes, narciso, the concern about CO2 is from the burning of fossil fuels. We are increasing the atmospheric concentration of CO2 but I believe it is to a fairly trivial degree. Not, mind you, inconsequential, but we need an honest discussion of the consequences, not the hysteria we've been subjected to.


Bad - I always use my full name in emails. I'm guessing DrJ remembered that from some other time I caught Glenn's attention, and that's how he got my name earlier in this thread. (right, DrJ?)


Who ordered op Clarice?

Korea is sure busy. Then there's the US military conspiracy against The HOBO by ramming the New Orleans, how the HOBO got going from that hurricane NO ordered. Americans sinking Chinese subs................

The HOBO is getting rid of dope laws in NM and Colombia doesn't care. Checking for crack in the house......


I saw one of those graphs referred in SDA, and the IPCC vs, actual projections, and it looks insane, but that's just me I guess, Of course we could face the global warming/
instant hyper blizzard envisioned by Art Bell and Whitley Strieber, but then again, pigs might develop the power of flight as well, I'm just saying.


right, DrJ?

It was the time you inserted your rider to the porkulus bill, which I did find.

hit and run

Bad - I always use my full name in emails.

Wait. Early today I thought you were Britney?


too much speculation tonight on bad things (no offense, bad). The planet is an extremely complex system about which we still know a gnat's ass. Volcanos, solar activity, lunar pull and other factors have far more effect than man's carbon footprint.

We are at the point in human history, probably, at which we know just enough to be dangerous. Shooting ourselves in the foot with bad science is just plain dumb, and an awful lot of environmental "science" can be objectively called bullshit.

From what I have seen, the greater danger is in mismanagement of resources. Fisheries management is a hobby, as I love the sport. I can say that we are killing off or wasting our primary foodstock because of the same issues of commons that have always bedeviled us. Who owns the seas or the skies? We are in the early stages there as well, but we must figure out some of these big issues reasonably quickly.

Until the late 1900's the cod population off the Grand and George Banks was legendary. Today they are not quite barren, but close. Same with the pelagic tuna populations. But that is the issue. If long liners and factory ships can suck entire schools out of existence, then we have a problem.

Adam Smith declared that men act in their own self interests. Somehow, I would rather focus on that which we can truly change rather than the weather. That is a fool's errand. We're smart, we're resourceful, and this we can figure out.


too much speculation tonight on bad things

Agreed!! One must take ACTION on bad things:

dark chocolate
hot men
good food


We had something almost as idiotic as those Global Warming Polar Exploring idiots a few years back. Our's was Environmentalist Timothy Treadwell the guy who was so very confident that he could peacefully co-exist with Grizzly Bears' that he camped out amongst them with his deluded girl friend while recording audio and video for a Disney nature movie. They both got almost completely devoured, and the whole thing was caught live on audio tape.

Sort of makes me wonder why every reporter with a camera and a raincoat loves to stand sideways during a Hurricane and scream into a microphone for a National Audience, but none of them care to stand on the rim of a volcano to do the same. Maybe they're only half way nuts.


There are some newly discovered magnetic and electrical interactions between the earth and sun and one recently confirmed example is the flux transfer event. Such interactions are a likely cause of correlation between cloud formation and solar activity. Solar influence on climate has regularly been dismissed by warministas on the basis that changes in radiative solar output are too small to directly explain changes in earth climate.

Well so is the direct effect of CO2.

The warministas exaggerate the CO2 effects using various water vapor positive feedback fudge factors in their computer models. that way the correlation between CO2 levels and climate is modeled with CO2 as the forcing function rather than as the result or effect of climate. Despite an established mechanism which explains atmospheric CO2 levels as a direct result of ocean temperature.

The earth-sun electromagnetic interactions and the solar wind affect the atmosphere in ways that are not completely understood. The correlation to cloud formation alone should be a clue that the sun affects earth climate in more ways than just by shine alone.


Hello. That's very nice site but I've seen this before here:

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