Feelings, Nothing More Than Feelings...

Kevin Drum decides that actual analysis is far too tedious as he ponders the chemistry of phospate-free dishwashing:

Yes, Spokane has banned the dishwasher detergent with phosphates and Washington state will follow suit next year.  And yes, residents of Spokane have been sneaking into Idaho to buy boxes of Cascade and Electrasol.  But check this out, from today's LA Times:

And after a brief, misleading excerpt Kevin concludes:

So here's the deal.  Phosphates really are a danger, creating runoff that kills fish and plants.  And Spokane has a uniquely bad problem with phosphates.  And apparently it's entirely possible to create phosphate-free detergents.  The industry just didn't feel like doing it.

They didn't "feel" like it?  Well, no kidding - no one manufacturer felt like making a more expensive, less effective soap in competition with ruthless competitors who actually (shudder!) gave the customer what they wanted.

Left unexcerpted by Drum:

Previous attempts to phase out dishwasher phosphates in Europe and a brief trial in Arizona met with implacable consumer resistance.

If you've lost the Euros...

An industry spokesman explains that if the government would eliminate the cheap and effective alternatives we could get somewhere:

"We sort of warned Spokane that things wouldn't be ready by 2008. We had told people it's not enough time to get our best products out there," Griesing said. "We have to do the R&D, restructure our chemical supply lines, maybe build some new plants.

"This is going to be a national changeover. I can't emphasize this enough."

On balance eliminating phosphate from detergent might be a sensible environmental strategy, but that does not salvage Drum's lazy "analysis".

MORE:  Europe continues to talk about it and wonders whether the zeolite alternative is safe.  It might be!  And we can always sue the greedy manufacturers who felt like poisoning us if it is hazardous, right?

Consumer Reports was aware of the hard water issue but liked some phosphate-free alternatives back in 2005.

Comments

[bad]

"Feelings, Nothing More Than Feelings..."

Trying to forget myyyyyyyyyy.....

[clarice]

I wish the govt would ban it so that every day when people ate off dirty dishes we could remind them that we told them so about overreaching govt turkeys.
Mayor Bloomberg, America's annoying Jewish nanny has now by fiat ordered NY restaurants to cut salt intake despite the fact that there is no good health studies to indicate this is a good idea.
Next no drinking.
And in a few more years of his administration (providing he overrides the term limit ban which he finds non-binding somehow) NYC will be a restaurant and nightclub Sahara.

[clarice]

**Are no good health studies***

[glasater]

None of the new cleaning products clean like the old ones did.

Does anyone remember "Big Wally"? It was the best!

[DebinNC]

What would happen if harried industrialists stopped trying to please the know-it-alls in Spokane, San Francisco, and DC and took Bill Whittle's advice to leave the country for awhile?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

The two real political parties are people who want to be in control, and people who want to be left alone.

[DebinNC]

According to this, Big Wally may still be around under the new name Wall Power. The idea of cleaning fanatics forced to become renegade lawbreakers is funny and sad.

[bad]

"I vant to be alone."

Was that said in an Austrian accent?

[Fresh Air]

Thanks to this post, Just One Minute is now running sidebar adds for phosphate detergents. Well done, TM! That'll show 'em.

[Appalled]

Charlie:

I wish your definition of the political parties is true -- problem is that people who are of the "leave me alone" party don't run for public office. Becaue, the way to forever be hassled is to run -- then your life becomes sport for the parts of the media that does not like you.

The only people who run for office are crusaders, narcissists, and people who used to be actors/actresses and are used to bad reviews and absurd inquisitions into personal life.

[sbw]

That nails it, Charlie!

[gus]

IT's for the children.

[bear1909]

Sooner or later this 60 year old enviro-narcissistic secularism will be discredited by the enduring faith of those among us who realize some human beans are full of hot air and daddy issues that require the reinvention of things that already work just fine without their needless projection of character defects.

[JorgXMcKie]

Charlie is right about two kinds of people, he's just wrong about them being parties. One type of people wants to be able to tell everyone else what to do and have the power to make it stick. You'll find them on both the Left and the Right, they just want different things.

The other type of people want to be left alone, not necessarily tell anyone what to do and be allowed to make there own decisions and live with the outcomes and let others do so as well.

I'm not sure that there are more of the first type than the second, but I am sure that they do more persistently push their belief.

[Old Lurker]

"NYC will be a restaurant and nightclub Sahara"

Already coming true, Clarice. I am just back from a long weekend there to among other things help my daughter with the negotiations for extending her lease.

Disaster descends in all directions up there.

The loss of several hundred thousand finance jobs, never to return, has been stunning to NYC. The city estimates a multiplier effect of 3:1 of total jobs gained or lost vs Wall Street jobs. That helped in the boom, but works just as well in reverse.

So the negotiations with the Landlord were fun, "So what would you like to pay to stay in the building, young lady?" !

We usually call ahead to our favorite restaurants, but no need this trip. They told me the first seatings are still strong, but often #2 & #3 are way way down. Many are shuttered already.

Tiffany's was almost empty at noon Saturday in spring...a time every tourist would expect to be there.

Broadway is scared to death. My daughter's actor friends are scrambling.

My two big-wig (Managing Partner WS types) dinner companions were stunned at how bad their situations are, and how permanent they think the changes are. Personal and professional.

With last week's increase in tobacco tax, cigs are $11.30 per pack in NYC.

Tax revs to NYC are headed to historic low levels (state too), and the knee jerk response as always from libs is to demand more from "the wealthy". This time there are simply way fewer of them than before, and now that they are in survival mode, the govmnt is going to have to look a lot harder to find their stash, since what they have left seems to be well hidden.

Long discussion about the collapse of Swiss accounts for that use...

Irony is that one of those guys at dinner was truly shocked that they had been "sandbagged" by Obama, who turned out to be a real socialist (maybe fascist) afterall. These WS guys really thought they would own him and are just beside themselves to see they were hoodwinked. Sweet justice for funding the guy, I say. I told him it was a lot like Maddoff: these guys knew he was cheating, they just assumed he was cheating for them, not against them!

So it was all very interesting. And while "just" in many ways, still sad to experience, I must say.

[PMII]

Heard that Al Gore was going to throw in some phosphate-free detergent with every carbon credit you purchase or maybe it was that Al Gore was going to start selling phosphate-free detergent credits...

[PMII]

$11.30 a pack %&^%^$^%$&&

Glad I stopped

[Fresh Air]

OL--

The sad part is that the jobs really won't come back. They're headed to Connecticut or New Jersey or London or who-knows-where. The more advances in telecom, the fewer people you need in one place to run a securities office. The idiots just kept milking the cow without ever worrying about its health. Wall Street will be nothing but a thoroughfare in 10 years. The rest will be just ghosts and myths and an old church.

[Rick Ballard]

"With last week's increase in tobacco tax, cigs are $11.30 per pack in NYC."

Hit,

Now there's a business opportunity. The Kennedy fortune came from just such a situation. (Please remember to hire the work done. For cash. Without ever actually meeting the employees.)

OL,

It is sad but it's also an opportunity for those fellows to show whether they actually have the brains and guts to play. They can live as bootlickers to dirty socialists or they can work themselves out of the hole without participating in Geithner's Dance of the Zombies. If they choose the bootlicker option then they deserve whatever befalls them.

[Chris]

$11.30/pack? Well, as long as it's for the children...

[PaulV]

Black Market phosphate. Is it better to buy TSP or just the detergent. I should have bought cases of R-12 at Costco when DuPont had feds phase out Freon

[Old Lurker]

Save room for the incadescent light bulbs, PaulV.

[Jane]

Have we found out who the special prosecutor in the Steven's case will be?

[Fresh Air]

PaulV--

TSP is actually lye. Lye + animal fat = soap, old, pioneer-style soap.

[centralcal]

Jane per Ace's blog:

"He appointed attorney Henry Schulke (Shul-KEE) as special prosecutor to investigate the Justice Department team for possible criminal contempt charges."

[Charlie (Colorado)]

TSP is actually lye. Lye + animal fat = soap, old, pioneer-style soap.

Um, no. TSP is trisodium phosphate. Lye is sodium hydroxide.

[Jane]

Thanks Centralcal.

I read a news story yesterday about William WElch the prosecutor vying for MA US attorney. I wrote the reported and said I hoped that in light of this case she would do a follow up - and she wrote me back and said it would be up tonite.

[clarice]

Interesting, OL..Very much so. I read that even Donald Trump says he's leaving.
Of course, as you know all those oflks will be joining their money here in D.C. soon enough whetre the restaurants and bars are booming.

I smoked for almost 5o years, gave it up over a year ago--let the bums soak someone else to fund their profligate spending.

Oh, I read yesterday that a type of salvia--legal and available everywhere and easy to grow (it's a kind of sage) is now being smoked and that it's better than the best grass..Love human inventiveness and creativity.

[clarice]

Good idea,Jane I expect his time and efforts are now being redirected to keeping his ass out of the slammer.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Clarice: Salvia divinorum

HTH.

[Elliott]

Clarice,

Since I forgot last week, great work on the Bowbama story.

[clarice]

Thanks, Elliott

[Jane]

Clarice,

What do you know about Henry Schuelke?

[clarice]

Nothing. Let me see if I can find anything for you. I am pissed--the left is dismissing this as no vindication of Stevens and the clean toga club is joining them again. Idiots. They've no idea how following the techniques used by the prosecution every single one of us could be convictewd. And of course they've paid no attention to the facts of this case--just mouthing off to prove their purity again.

[clarice]

Here you go, Jane:
Biographical information on Henry Schuelke
The Associated Press
NAME - Henry F. Schuelke III

AGE-BIRTH DATE-LOCATION - 66; Nov. 10, 1942; Newark, N.J.

EDUCATION - Bachelor's degree, St. Peter's College, 1964; law degree, Villanova University, 1967.

EXPERIENCE - Special counsel, the District of Columbia Commission on Judicial Disabilities and Tenure, 1982-present; member, the Committee on Grievances, U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, 1989-1995; special counsel, Senate Select Committee on Ethics, 1989-1991; special counsel, Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, 1980-1981; general counsel, the Autism Society of America, 1980-1990; executive assistant U.S. attorney, District of Columbia, 1976-1979; assistant U.S. attorney, District of Columbia, 1972-1979; military judge, U.S. Army Judiciary, 1970-1972; captain, Judge Advocate General's Corps, U.S. Army, 1968-1972.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

general counsel, the Autism Society of America, 1980-1990

You know, I bet preparing a deposition for them is really annoying.

[Geezer]

Have you considered granma's lye soap?

it's good for many, many things. i will aways have lye soap at my home. here are some but there are more

11. kills head and body lice

10. psoriasis, eczema & acne

9. poison ivy & poison oak rash -rub in let dry on

8. keeps mosquitoes & chiggers away -rub in let dry on skin

7. relieves pain and itching from sunburn, mosquitoes or chigger bites & athlete's foot, just lather on and let it dry on skin.

6. tied in old sock at backs of tree prevents insect invasion

5. better than bleach on whites and removes stains- wet, rub, wash

4. put on hook for catfish bait

3. lather hides human scent for hunters

2. kills fleas & dander on pets

1. best for dirty mouthed kids

[Jane]

So 3 of our "leaders" (I think from the black congressional caucus) are meeting with Castro right now.

Thanks for the bio Clarice, I wondered if you knew him.

[Jane]

I am pissed--the left is dismissing this as no vindication of Stevens and the clean toga club is joining them again.

Dick did that on the radio today - after first gloating that it was the Bush justice department that croaked him and the Holder Justice dept that saved him.

I handed him his hat.

[Old Lurker]

Clarice, you are right about coming to DC if one wants to visit one's money.

Interesting take on who will be coming, also answering FA's & Rick's comments above:

Now we all know that WS assumes all the masters of the universe have gone there in recent times - not commenting on whether that is right or wrong, just that is what they think of themselves. Those folks are not about to take jobs helping Turbo Timmy screw things up worse. Some will try to use Turbo's machine to get rich again, and some will no doubt succeed. Some of these folks will retool for other pursuits (those are Rick's guys), and likely will do very well. Some will go where the government banks need talent, but these will be the B+ players.

Two big takeways from my visit:

The true masters of the universe will rebuild new machines, but many of these are going off shore. London will be a big winner for the moment, but other money centers are getting a bite it seems. These folks don't want to be anywhere near the U.S. government meat grinder and salary setting machinery, not to mention ex post facto bill of attainder taxes.

The second fear among these finance guys (my small sample anyway) is that bad as the news has been from Obama, Summers & Geithner (powered by Pelosi, Reid, Franks & Dodd), the even more devastating damage will be done when their deputies and assistants get seated and start writing regs. It is well known (Clarice knows this big time) that the real damage can be done at the reg writing and implementation level, particularly because that layer is where the zealots dwell, like trolls under bridges. This is really the first time B- level folks with some finance training will get to exert their new power over their former superstar classmates. That aspect of this is going to make things even uglier than we thought they were already.

Interesting times indeed.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

I would love to see the bios and party affiliation of all the prosecutors who are being investigated for indulging in overzealous conduct.

I suspect those with right leaning affiliations are in the minority.

Any betting people out there?

[clarice]

I never heard of a judge appointing a special prosecutor to investigate prosecutors for possible criminal contempt,Jim R, and certainly not after the DoJ has proffered that they are conducting their own investigation.

I know I've mentioned this but in the decades that I've been here the DoJ has gone from the pinnacle of ethical behavior to the swamp--and the level of supervision in this case proves it. For as long as I've been around the rule there has been no bringing indictments against political figures just before an election. Here they did so and quite obviouslyt on the flimsiest of premises and no one stopped them.

When I was at Justice's criminal division, we had to write and defend detailed briefs as to why the case should be brought, what the evidence was, what the likely defenses would be, etc. It went through 2 or 3 layers of supervision before any case was instituted.

[Jane]

Jim,

William Welch who is the guy from the "integrity" department is from Northampton MA. His father is a Judge. He was vying for the US attorney job. The story I referred to earlier is at the LUN

Oh yeah, he's a democrat

[MarkJ]

From the idiots responsible for creating "bootleggers" come their latest creation....

SOAPLEGGERS!

[Topsecretk9]

I never heard of a judge appointing a special prosecutor to investigate prosecutors for possible criminal contempt

Clairice

Not sure this is helpful, but one did down south...LUN -- it's similar because it involve the Attorney General's conduct

and this case had nothing to do directly with the Scruggs going to jail situation either (other than revealing his shady way of dealing MO)

[Topsecretk9]

And Clarice...this makes one wonder about Eckenrod's (sp) notes huh?

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

And well it should have, Clarice. The same was true in the Army when a career officer or non-com was under investigation for "conduct unbecoming". Or when someone was being tried for a capital offense. It was recognized that not only was the former potential criminal matter, but also a career and pension terminator. Under the UCMJ, there were specific and strict procedural safeguards in capital cases.

It is not that the folks in these categories got favored treatment; it was the recognition of the consequences of a mistake had career or life ending consequences.

There is no good reason for DOJ to have changed those rules.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Exhiit A - sorry it is very long:

Biography
B.S., University of Southern California; J.D., Howard University. Brenda Morris joined the Public Integrity Section, Criminal Division, U.S. Department of Justice in September 1991. After working for twelve years as a Trial Attorney with the Public Integrity Section, she was promoted in March 2004 to Deputy Chief for Litigation. In August 2006, Professor Morris was promoted to the position of Principal Deputy Chief. Her staff consists of 30 attorneys and 11 support staff. The Public Integrity Section is a distinctive unit within the Criminal Division which is responsible for the nationwide investigations and prosecutions of corrupt federal employees. As a Trial Attorney, Professor Morris investigated white-collar cases ranging from federal conflict of interest crimes to conspiracy to commit bribery of public officials. Professor Morris has conducted federal trials across the country which ranged from perjury committed by a Border Patrol Agent in Tucson, Arizona, to witness tampering and obstruction of justice in Key West, Florida. As Deputy Chief for Litigation, Professor Morris was responsible for the daily supervision of the Section’s attorneys on all aspects of their complex litigations and trials. As Principal Deputy Chief, Professor Morris continues to supervise all cases in the Section and she spearheads investigations ranging from the Abramoff corruption scandal to corruption matters involving the theft of millions of dollars meant for the Iraqi reconstruction. Professor Morris is a career prosecutor who began as a Assistant District Attorney in the New York County District Attorneys Office under Robert Morgenthau. Her experience in New York proved to be fertile training ground where Professor Morris honed her skills as a trial attorney by successfully prosecuting hundreds of street crimes and winning over forty trial victories. As part of her federal service, Professor Morris has been selected to instruct on white-collar statutes, including conflict of interest, and investigative techniques to international audiences consisting of prosecutors and law enforcement in Katmandu, Nepal; Dhaka, Bangladesh; and Bucharest, Romania. In April 2007, Professor Morris was chosen to represent the Department of Justice at the Global Forum V held in Johnanasburg, South Africa. Professor Morris has also instructed other federal prosecutors and federal agents on the federal criminal conflict of interest laws at various United States Attorneys Offices, Offices of Inspector General Offices, as well as the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Brunswick, Georgia. Professor Morris is also an adjunct professor at Georgetown University Law Center located in Washington, DC, currently teaching a course on public corruption. Professor Morris is a native Washingtonian who received her Bachelor of Science degree from the University of California, and her Juris Doctorate from Howard University Law School.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Jane's comment should have been Exhibit A, and mine Exhibit B.

Where 2 for 2 though.

[clarice]

ts, How nice to have you back.

I don't mean to suggest that the judge was wrong in appointing a prosecutor only that it is very unusual.

[clarice]

These prosecutors are also under investigation:

Nicholas Marsh and Edward Sullivan; Alaska federal prosecutors Joseph Bottini and James Goeke

[clarice]

Bios of all of the prosecutors here:

http://www.examiner.com/a-1948482~Bios_of_prosecutors_facing_criminal_investigation.html>Prosecutors under investigation

[clarice]

http://www.adn.com/news/politics/fbi/stevens/story/743906.html
The key piece of evidence against the prosecutors--withholding the April 15, 2008 interview from the defense and allowing clearly perjured testimony to be presented to the jury ..

[hit and run]

Heh, http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MjBiYjlkZWI4MjQ0ZmNlMjE1YmVkNGZmZGZlODkzZTY=>K-Lo likes my POTUS PUMA...

But I'm not gonna lie to you ... even though I made that photoshop, it still kinda freaks me out.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Any betting people out there?

Depends on which side of the bet I can get.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

H&R,

If you were to photoshop yourself driving the PUMA you could be the VIOH.

If you do, could you please instruct him to stop being such an ass?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

When I was at Justice's criminal division, we had to write and defend detailed briefs as to why the case should be brought, what the evidence was, what the likely defenses would be, etc. It went through 2 or 3 layers of supervision before any case was instituted.

I wonder what the result of an FOIA request on the Stevens briefs would be?

[hit and run]

Ignatz:
If you do, could you please instruct him to stop being such an ass?

Well, that is where his head resides most of the time.

[clarice]

hit, did you really do that? Fantastic!

[hit and run]

Yup, I really did that.

OK, off to cub scouts to make a marshmallow shooter! Which is, I think, not illegal in the Obama Era. Yet.

[clarice]

Bye pops. Behave.

[JM Hanes]

Would I be wrong in thinking that this looks more like a "special master" proposition than a "special prosecutor" one?

[JM Hanes]

Jane:

"Dick did that on the radio today - after first gloating that it was the Bush justice department that croaked him and the Holder Justice dept that saved him."

Now there's a litmus test for real world ignorance -- as if that vaunted crew of "career professionals" at DOJ change their (mostly liberal) political stripes with each incoming administration. Contra the Gonzales meme, Justice probably screwed with Bush more often than vice versa (See: Libby, "Scooter")

Old Lurker:

"It is well known (Clarice knows this big time) that the real damage can be done at the reg writing and implementation level, particularly because that layer is where the zealots dwell, like trolls under bridges."

My, what a way with perfect words you have! Trolls under bridges -- your shadow government at work.

[clarice]

JMH:"Would I be wrong in thinking that this looks more like a "special master" proposition than a "special prosecutor" one?"

I think so. Shuelke is commissioned to investigate whether the court should proceed with criminal contempt proceedings. I take it that means he is to examine the materials the court ordered produced to him on Monday morning, interview any witnesses who could be found and make a recommendation to the judge .IIRC judges always have the power to punish contempt committed in their courtroom. But this is a more complicated kind of contempt thatn the usual thing--an outburst by counsel for example and a deliberate failure to adhere to the judge's rulings abut courtroom procedure--hense the engagement of outside counsel.

[clarice]

I mean I think is looks more like a special master proposition, not that I think you are wrong..(Geez I'm getting mentally decrepit.)

[JM Hanes]

Thanks, Clarice. I'm glad to see it happening, because it's high time prosecutors stopped getting more than the barest benefit of the doubt. Patrick Fitzgerald's presumed probity and sincerity has consistently given him an astounding degree of extra-legal leverage.

My irony meter hit astounding too with these gems from your link on the Stevens dramatis personae:

NICHOLAS MARSH: One of two Public Integrity trial attorneys on the case...
BRENDA MORRIS: A longtime prosecutor with the Justice Department's Public Integrity Section...
WILLIAM WELCH: The chief of the Public Integrity section...
EDWARD SULLIVAN: The other Public Integrity trial attorney in the case...

[JM Hanes]

If I caught your drift, would that make me mentally decrepit too?

[Thomas Jackson]

If you don't listen to kEVIN THE TERRORISTS WILL WIN.

[JM Hanes]

hit:

Photosham Wow!

[clarice]

I've been yelling for a long time now that prosecutors are not getting the proper supervision--at DoJ by supervisors elsewhere by Courts and AGs and bar associations.

It is getting awful--consider Ronnie Earle,Spitzer, Mike Nifong, the entire hierarchy of the DoJ OPI.(To which I'd add our friend Patrick Fitzgerald)`

These people--rather uniquely--are subject to no real oversight and the personal benefits of winning high profile cases is ever higher.

[clarice]

jmh:"If I caught your drift, would that make me mentally decrepit too?"

Do I have to answer that?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I've been yelling for a long time now that prosecutors are not getting the proper supervision--at DoJ by supervisors elsewhere by Courts and AGs and bar associations.

Clarice, is this really a change, or is it that the bad eggs get more publicity in the blog age?

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

I agree on the special master/special prosecutor distinction, and that the former is the proper handle for this proceeding.

Whatever contempt there was in this case was in front of this judge during a pending case. I think it is indisputable that he has the inherent power to discover its extent, and punish it if the facts warrant. To do this, he could turn it over to a US Magistrate or Special Master as a preliminary matter to develop the record, although he will be the ultimate arbiter.

His decision will only be reviewable for abuse of discretion as to the facts. As to the law it is de novo, but there isn't much "law" involved here. If they did what they are accused of doing, they are in big, big trouble.

We're talking career-ending moves (or in the lingo of big business "CEMs".

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

close parentheses:).

[clarice]

Brenda Morris, the lead prosecutor in this case has done this sort of thing before, and the judge in the case that she lost and which cost the taxpayers $1.34 million in damages to the defendants asks what took everyone so long to take action against her.
http://www.alaskadispatch.com/tundra-talk/9-talk-of-the-tundra/1124-stevens-prosecutors-poor-record

[clarice]

Chaco, after Giuliani, prosecutors with political ambitions know how valuable it is to be a winning crusader for justice (see Spitzer's claim to fame). And in recent decades top criminal lawyers have been able to earn small fortunes.

[clarice]

And there is the high of waking up and seeing your mug on the front page and people trying to get interviews with you, and for those inside DpJ a move up the ladder.

Look at Walch..he was angling for the Mass. AG slot on the very day the judge held him in contempt.

[narciso]

Has there been a successful prosecution of unethical prosecutors, specially in D.C. I mean besides in Law & Order, in recent times

[clarice]

I am unaware of it if there was, narciso.

[centralcal]

Well . . . my heroes and role models pretty much are personified by many of the commenters here.

Clarice, first and foremost among them, simply because she caused me to pause, and read, and read again, and then to think and seek additional information during the Libby travesty.

For awhile, I can convince myself that there are not enough people getting fully informed. But, then, I talk to my workmates - many decades younger than myself - and I am often greatfully surprised. They get it! Their sources are not mine; so we share.

The best thing that has come from the Fascist Obama regime, is the dialogue that is transpiring between young and old(er)! And, of course, coming to the same conclusions taking divergent paths.

My education is always enlarged coming here and reading (and trying so hard to say little, since I am here to observe and learn).

[clarice]

Wow, CC. Thanks for that over generous praise and thanks for telling me other people are catching on. I'm not seeing any of that and am getting dispirited.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Clarice, I'm still curious. Anyone who reads old mysteries knows that it wasn't a particular secret that some police and prosecutorial abuses happened in the 50's and before. I grew up in a machine town where it was pretty clear that if the police roughed up or killed the appropriate people there wouldn't be much consequence; if they roughed up someone inappropriate, there would be.

[Extraneus]

Uh oh. Better link Iowahawk, or else.

[JM Hanes]

Jim:

Alas, I'm not sure CEM's are what they used to be. Shoot, the Eliot Spitzer rebound has apparently already begun and Democratic pols who shouldn't be allowed to show their faces seem to get unlimited do overs.

[pagar]

Since the subject is unethical prosecutors, someone needs to take a look at the

http://jones.house.gov/release.cfm?id=689

LAWMAKERS JOIN JONES TO REQUEST INVESTIGATION OF PROSECUTOR IN BORDER AGENTS CASE

Complaint of Prosecutorial Misconduct Filed Against U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton

[clarice]

Chaco-I have no way of measuring such a thing. For one thing, i do not think prosecutors had the same obligations respecting exculpatory evidence that they do now though knowingly proffering perjurious evidence has always been a no-no.

[centralcal]

Clarice and others who are regulars here . . . I often make snarky remarks, I sometimes indulge in hyperoble. But, please believe me, there is something occuring, even among the young(er) folks we have contact with.

They sense that things are not as they should be. They are unsettled. This is where I feel we can encourage. Not preach too much, but, rather, listen and emphatically say YES! You get it!

For those who don't yet "get it," sometimes we have to keep on reminding them of all the things they take for granted. There really is a lot they take for granted and have never even once considered, no longer assuming it is their natural lot and right in life to enjoy.

Obama, charming and charismatic as he may be, is their biggest threat. Not ours - we fully see him unclothed and flawed. We have to help those who are unsettled about him, see him in his full, naked, unglorious reality. Not a man that anyone should want to follow. Unless it be to their own everlasting regret.

[JM Hanes]

Charlie:

I do think awareness plays a big part, and of course, the obligations Clarice refers to, along with Mirandizing etc. arose in response to known abuses. As bad as things may sometimes seem, we also have considerably more transparency that we used to, I think. In a similar vein, I also think I read some where that the number of kids who die in school shootings hadn't changed that much over some period of time, but that people thought it had because of the wall to wall, newly nationalized, coverage of any and every event like Columbine. [I'm a little hazy on the specifics, though.] Your machine town experience accords with my own impressions in the south, where equality under the law was still much more the ideal than the reality -- a reality which was not limited to obvious racial disparities.

[clarice]

Well, I hope he grows up fast or is replaced no later than the next election--here's more unsettling news:The US electric grid has been penetrated by spies and could be disabled at time of crisis.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123914805204099085.html

[glenda]

Electric grid....Clarice scores again!! I wish you were still at DOJ!! Having people who directly represent my government's role in it's citizens lives, who are riddled with corruption and narcissism scares me more than spies. I hope you keep us informed in your usual brilliant way!!

And, by the way--I pray you and yours have a safe, happy, satisfying seder during Passover. That all danger and evil passes over you and yours, and we all join together in praising God as we ask for his blessings. For all people, for all times, on heaven and earth.

(♥)

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Clarice, that's kind of what I was getting at. I wonder if we're not seeing it more because we've evolved the idea that it's not accptable. But I've not been involved in the criminal justice system except for that one time in junior high.

I do kind of suspect that the breaking down of the barrier of cost of publication has made it much harder to preserve those privileges.

[Topsecretk9]

The Judge clicked through a series of missteps by the prosecutors and called them out on their statements about the errors:

Returning a witness to Alaska who had been under defense subpoena, Sullivan said the prosecutors at trial called it, "not material."

Blacking out exculpatory information from an FBI report, the prosecutors called this, "a mistake."

Not providing a key grand jury transcript, "Inadvertent."
Submitting false business records into evidence a "mistake."

Saying key witness Bill Allen was not reinterview by prosecutors close to indictment, "mistaken understanding."...

Stevens Defense Attorney Brendan Sullivan then spoke at length about the conduct of the prosecutors disclosing that 4 Assistant US Attorneys and an FBI agent were at the April 15th meeting with Bill Allen, yet only 2 of the attendees took notes during it. "We were close to never seeing this…to never getting it." Sullivan said of the new evidence that the new trial team discovered after 5 weeks of work.

I'm telling you, makes me wonder about Eckenrod's "lost" notes

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

It does indeed, Top. I ran into this type of thing in civil litigation much more frequently in the late 1990s and early 2000s than in the entire 30 preceding years.

I also noticed that at first judges were loathe to hold big firms and the government accountable. Then there were some prominent firms involved in a series of discovery shenanigans that caused judges to apply much more extreme sanctions for spoliation and discovery abuse.

IMO, the kind of lawyering that was so apparent in the defense of a former President had a lot to do with the increased envelope pushing occurring since 1995. (fn Judge Sirica held the Nixon lawyers' feet to the fire in the mid 70's which pretty much kept the lid on the rest of the bar)

I hope Judge Sullivan's actions begin the pushback.

[Topsecretk9]

Jim

No kidding... Morris may have a history of misconduct

Two weeks before tax day, married lawyers Alan and Jean Brown were signing their names to the back of a familiar-looking green and yellow U.S. Treasury Department check that most Americans associate with a tax refund.

The check the San Antonio couple endorsed on March 30 was an Internal Revenue Service refund of sorts -- but not in the traditional sense.

The $1.34 million check was the result of a settlement between the Browns and the government in Alan Brown, et al. v. United States, a Federal Tort Claims Act (FTCA) suit the couple filed three years ago in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Texas.

The couple filed the civil suit after they were caught up in a complicated tax prosecution in which Alan Brown, a well-known criminal defense attorney with Brown & Norton, and Jean Brown, a family law solo, allege they were targeted by overzealous Internal Revenue Service agents, which led to the Browns being indicted in 2003 by a federal grand jury in Austin, Texas, for allegedly filing false personal tax returns between 1994 and 1997.

In their first amended complaint in their civil suit, the Browns alleged, among other things, that IRS agents had authorized a warrantless search of their offices, records and home that was without probable cause; that the defendants and/or other "investigative or law enforcement officers" used false or misleading evidence to seek a search warrant, justify the grand jury investigation, and the indictments; and that the government, "through its 'investigative or law enforcement officers,' maliciously prosecuted Alan Brown through and including a lengthy criminal trial without probable cause, which proximately caused plaintiffs to suffer significant damages."...

Brenda Morris, a chief deputy in the U.S. Department of Justice's Public Integrity Section who prosecuted the Browns, did not return a telephone call seeking comment.

LUN

and well, well, well....

...
For the past fifteen years, Brenda Morris has prosecuted political corruption crimes for the Justice Department's Public Integrity Section, which oversees all federal public corruption cases. As deputy chief, Brenda is the highest-ranking official in the Section who is not a political appointee. She will discuss her role supervising high-profile cases, including the Jack Abramoff investigation and the Scooter Libby trial, as well as her experience working as a career prosecutor under Alberto Gonzales. Sponsored by: Stanford Law & Policy Review (SLPR), Levin Center for Public Service & Public Interest Law, Stanford Criminal Justice Center, ...

[JM Hanes]

Hi tops! Those missing Eckenrode notes didn't pass the laugh test to start with, but the Brenda Morris tie in makes it all the more mind boggling, doesn't it? Geez. It's like a DOJ mafia.

[narciso]

So, Ms. Morris, has been in charge of every legal attack against the GOP and the war fighting capacity from the sacking of Libby
to the 'kid gloves treatment of Abramoff, who gave money to every party including the Obama campaign, and brought down the giant;
Ted Stevens, with enough lies to choke a horse. In the LUN, Paglia's still logically
inconsistent column, where she acts a little
too naive for her own good.

[Jane]

As Glenn points out - this will probably give Justice the excuse it needs to go easy on Murtha.

[clarice]

I read about the Texas case yesterday but cannot find the cite to TS's report that Brenda played a supervicory role in the Libby case.
Yeah, the missing Eckenrode notes, indeed.

I especially love in this litany that bit about the notes of the crucial Allen interview in April 2008

It's a problem which is why you need good internal supervision:You want some fire in the belly of prosecutors but you need someone to apply the brakes when they forget they are not just LE but officers of the court, as well.

I think this was certainly not her first overstepping the bounds.

[daddy]

Clarice and everyone else, thanks so much for continuing to cover this Ted Steven's case. For some background that may be of use:

It makes sense to me that they began investigating Steven's way back when, because locally in Alaska a number of entrenched State politicians were being investigated for corruption these last few years, and the highest of that bunch was Ted Steven's son Ben, former Alaskan Senate President. In 2006 6 FBI agents raided Ben Steven's Legislative Office, and this was huge news. My understanding is that getting the goods on one guy, they would then try to delay sentencing or plea deal, in order to get him to turn on the next guy up the ladder, etc, always looking for a bigger fish. Local Talk Radio discussion at the time was that they were always using Ben and Bill Allen to try to go up the ladder after Ted. Ben Steven's wound up never being prosecuted for corruption, but 6 FBI guys digging thru his office was startling news and sure gave the impression that something was rotten in Alaskan Politics, so it at least made sense why they began looking at Ted.

The part that didn't make sense to me though, was why they kept pursuing it, if it was primarily based on the extra 250K under-the-table housing improvements deal. Any of you guys would instantly realize how ludicrous that charge was if you just jumped in my Truck and we went cruising down to Girdwood to look at his dumpy refurbished shack. You would immediately be waving the Bulls__t Flag upon viewing it with your own eyes, which is why I continue to be angry at this line from todays NYTimes story:

"Mr. Stevens was charged with failing to list on Senate disclosure forms some $250,000 worth of goods and services he received, mostly to transform a modest chalet he owned in Girdwood, Alaska, into a more splendid residence".

"More Splendid Residence" my ass. Its a freakin' A-frame cabin, but anything to keep pushing the meme of fat-cat corrupt Republicans down the road I suppose. (Anybody seen Chris Dodd's 10 acre Irish joint referred to as "a splendid
residence" in the NYTimes?)

Anyhow, major credit goes to the rookie FBI whistleblowing Agent Gay, who was soundly trashed up here by his superiors and just about everyone else as an uneducated rube who just didn't understand the ropes of how it was done, and should have just shut up until he got a little seasoning under his belt. He is the only guy in this entire episode on the Law Enforcement side that deserves any credit whatever...excepting, belatedly, Judge Sullivan.

So that is my understanding of why the investigation started. It also makes sense to me that the only reason Steven's would have asked for a speedy trial was because he was confident he was innocent. Any fool could see there wasn't any extra 250K in his A-frame shack in Girdwood, so why not get it over quick, be exonerated, and get on with the election. If he was flagrantly guilty, and knew he was guilty, and that the evidence was probably going to convict him, then it makes no sense why he would try to get a speedy trial which would reveal all that before the election. The only thing that makes sense to me was that, at least of the 250K renovation charge, he was completely innocent and confident that the facts proving he was innocent were on his side.

And to finish. Yippee! Our Alaskan Property Tax Cap passed tonight 55 to 45 percent, in the face of the ADN telling voters to vote it down. And remember Walt Monagan, the guy who blamed Sarah Palin for firing him because he wouldn't fire the Tasergate Trooper. Well Monagan got clobbered tonight in the Mayoral Election:)

[daddy]

Even better. Now it's 60 to 40 percent voting for the Tax Cap. We're kicking rear end!