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April 01, 2009



Thanks all for the links to kim! Glad to see her back in action.

Enlightened, I have my fingers crossed for you!

Fresh Air

No one knows when she will return. Not even Kim.


Did the iPod come with any read by the author audiobooks, I wonder. I seem to recall that George H.W. Bush got into difficulty over one of his gifts to the British monarch.


Heh, Fresh Air.

Now that we have found kim, I've been thinking - sure would love to hear from Sue...


enlightened and hit, I've got everything crossed for you two.

Fresh Air

I seem to recall that George H.W. Bush got into difficulty over one of his gifts to the British monarch.

Well, they gave us the rule of law and property rights and we gave them a copy of Saturday NIght Fever on DVD. You can understand why Liz might be a bit sore.

Old Lurker

"Well, they gave us the rule of law and property rights"

...and look what we've done to them.

Bill in AZ

Since kim is busy elsewhere, I'll help out. Deep Solar Minimum continues...

2008 was a bear. There were no sunspots observed on 266 of the year’s 366 days (73%). To find a year with more blank suns, you have to go all the way back to 1913, which had 311 spotless days: plot. Prompted by these numbers, some observers suggested that the solar cycle had hit bottom in 2008.

Maybe not. Sunspot counts for 2009 have dropped even lower. As of March 31st, there were no sunspots on 78 of the year’s 90 days (87%).

It adds up to one inescapable conclusion: “We’re experiencing a very deep solar minimum,” says solar physicist Dean Pesnell of the Goddard Space Flight Center.

We're cooling folks, and we don't know when kim will be back.


Also, we've got 3 or 4 pretty large volcanoes spewing aerosol's into the atmoshphere. Redoubt, the one down around Fiji, and another one in Chile. I think this is going to be a very interesting summer.


Oh, and since the Dimocraps are trying to push Cap and Trade through, if the major Gore speeches are any indication, this is setup to be the coldest summer in living memory.

Bill in AZ

Pofarmer, I hope you have something to plant for a short growing season. Around here in the short growing season backwoods canyons they grew sorghum and beans. Supplemented with hunting, they had the 3 major food groups covered - meat, beans, and White Mule Whiskey. By the time The Won is forced to resign, we'll be down to that ourselves.

Charlie (Colorado)

Well, they gave us the rule of law and property rights and we gave them a copy of Saturday NIght Fever on DVD. You can understand why Liz might be a bit sore.

I'm *pretty* sure Bush_41 didn't give HM a DVD.

Charlie (Colorado)

It is, by the way, snowing like a sonuvabitch in Boulder right now. Heavy wet snow. After a blizzard on Monday. Another storm expected Friday.

Not that this is unusual for Colorado in April, but since a bunch of the warmists were making a big deal about warm days in February, I thought I'd mention it.


Is Gore speaking there this week?


"Also, we've got 3 or 4 pretty large volcanoes spewing aerosol's into the atmoshphere. Redoubt".

Redoubt probably buys its carbon offsets from the same place as Al Gore- General Investment Management.


Hi,PUK. I was about to send out a search party with a keg of scotch.


I thought it 41 who asked what in the world some object on a table in Buckingham Palace might be only to be met with the response that he was the one who should know as he was the item's donor.

Gifts exchanged in 2007 are described here.

Bill in AZ

Some years ago I drove from Boulder to the (old) airport in a blizzard - on the 6th of June. Had to wait for de-icing, then landed in Tucson 2 hrs later in 105 degrees.


Red State really pastes the Reps who abandoned Stevens and who even now refuse to acknowledge his innocence of the charges, accusing them of once again committing fratricide.


Red State really pastes the Reps who abandoned Stevens

I hope they didn't hurt themselves.


Imagine what would have happened if it was a Republican prosecutor taking out a Democrat senator? Think of the media firestorm.

How can these people be defeated? Elections don't stop them. French remedies come to mind, but not many others. Are there any?

Jim Ryan

Jonah's got humor-deprived lefties. Click through the links for a chuckle. I'd heard the O's gave the Queen a VHS of some Miami Vice episodes, but I was way off.


Hot Air has a Trapper note .The IPOD given the Queen included Obamas greatest hit.


OK, Michelle's self-love of her arms is getting a little out of hand. The pictures I saw of her meeting the Browns today outside of 10 Downing had her sleeveless....and it was only about 60F there today.


French remedies come to mind, but not many others. Are there any?

I say torches and pitchforks, my wife says we need to pray about it, God will find a way. I say that God is on the side of torches and pitchforks.


I say that God is on the side of torches and pitchforks.

Posted by: Pofarmer | April 01, 2009 at 09:47 PM

Well, the good book does say that God helps those who help themselves.


Ouch, Elliot, when will they learn that the internet is not going to be their friend.
Supporting his primary opponent is one
thing, but to endorse a Democrat, specially
one like Begich, 'epic fail'. It does seem to form a pattern, Libby, Black, Wulrich, Stevens, Delay and the rest of Kilo 3/2 at Haditha, who never received their due amount of recognition for their efforts in Fallujah now the Blackwater team at Al Mansour Square all seem to be persecuted for what they represent that what they did, aggresive supporters and promoters of the war on terror, decorated US servicemen


Here is a question for the legal types around here.

If there is clear evidence (which there does appear to be) of colusion between the FBI, the DoJ, and the key witness against Stevens, could the Alaska AG charge them with conspriracy to commit fraud?

The vitim being the citizens of Alaska who were defrauded of a an honest election by the false prosecution of Stevens.


Well, the good book does say that God helps those who help themselves.

Which good book is that? Poor Richard's Almanac?


Good catch, Elliott.

Republicans really sare dreadful allies in a crunch, aren't they?
Head for the hills our togas might get mussed..YECH


Well, the good book does say that God helps those who help themselves.

Malcolm X said that, too (about Allah), but it bet it wasn't in his good book, either.

Seems to be a concept that man likes to project onto God, whichever God that happens to be.


Talking about the bankruptcy of GM.

And then there's the nearly $1 trillion in CDS that will trigger. There is no accurate way to know what the net exposure is on those, but I'd take the "over" on $100 billion, focused in you-know-where.

Yes, it's from Denninger.

But, ya know what? It would appear that the sooperjeeneuuses have created a product that, instead of decreasing risk, multiplies it throughout the system. I bet you couldn't do it if you tried.



and it was only about 60F there today.

Well, there are people who aren't much bothered by cold. Perhaps Michelle is one of them. But if so, I bet she doesn't much like that hothouse Oval Office!



That bankruptcy ain't goin' to court.

"Employee owned" by the end of this, no court, no CDS trigger. That's why the UAW has been so quiet, they get it all, with Government backing. Bottomless check book for campaign support, and future muscle. Those who chose not to "pay to play" are going to get muscled.

Mark my words.

Night all. And thanks for the wishes last night.


Holy Crap mel.


Whatta mess.


I have been watching the joyous celebrations in the streets of London on the arrival of President for life Barrack Hussein Obama.


Sorry, when I see "Chicago" written all over something, I gotta call it.

Subtle as a 3# hammer.

Jim Ryan

Peter, we apologize for O's gift to your Queen, which I heard was a tube of KY sexual lubricant, a stack of old Playgirl Magazines, and a used poster of a young chest-bare Burt Reynolds.


JR, the 2nd and 3rd of those items were used. It's not clear from your phrasing: What about the 1st?


PUK, It takes a lot of guts to parade around in costume at these things..

From the Club for Growth re the Stevens fiasco:

I'm no fan of former Sen. Stevens, but I think it's clear that he did not get a fair trial and that he lost his election as a result. More details on the prosecutors' misconduct are available in the Anchorage Daily News.

As noted in The Wall Street Journal's Political Diary today:

Justice's behavior was so bizarre that it makes one wonder why the hastily-assembled case charging Senator Stevens only with lying on disclosure forms was brought so close to a pivotal election. As the Journal editorial page reported earlier this year, Mr. Welch, the prosecutor in the Stevens case, is a career Justice lawyer. He was appointed to his post by Alice Fisher, who had headed up a broader Justice probe of corruption in Alaska but who had left by the time the Stevens indictment was brought. In a profile last week in his hometown newspaper, the Springfield, Mass., Republican, Mr. Welch was described as a registered Democrat vying for a promotion to U.S. Attorney in Boston. The day this story appeared, he was found in contempt" by Judge Sullivan.
And read these excerpts from a transcript of a press conference by Stevens's lawyer Brendan Sullivan where he reacted to the decision. Mr. Sullivan is absolutely right

As many of you know, I never comment about matters in litigation. Today is an exception. . . The jury verdict here was obtained unlawfully. The government violated the Constitution of the United States, federal criminal rules, and applicable case law in order to obtain this unlawful verdict. The misconduct of the prosecutors was stunning to me. Many prosecutors were involved and least one FBI agent. Not only did the government fail to provide evidence to the defense that the law required them to provide, but they created false testimony that they gave us and they actually presented false testimony in the courtroom. . .
The prosecutors in the case were removed, as you know, some were held in contempt and that brought in a new team of prosecutors. If I were to be asked, are there other heroes, it would be those new prosecutors. They were led by Paul O'Brien. They pursued evidence and when they found evidence of misconduct, they gave it to us, as recently as last week. And when we received that evidence, normally defense counsel are overjoyed at the opportunity that their hunches and leads are proven true, that in fact the government acted wrongly, but there was no joy at Williams and Connolly when we were getting that evidence. In fact we were sickened by it. Because it clearly told a story of government corruption, that they were hell bent on convicting a United States Senator.

To us, while this is a joyful day and we're happy that Senator Stevens can resume a normal life without the burdens that he's carried over these last years, at age 85, it's a very sad story, too. Because it's a warning to everyone in this country that any citizen can be convicted if the prosecutor ignores the Constitution of the United States.

Read that last sentence again:

[I]t's a warning to everyone in this country that any citizen can be convicted if the prosecutor ignores the Constitution of the United States. "


I'd call it a reminder, myself.

Jim Ryan

PD, I checked the article, and in the photo it seems that the tube of KY is thinner in the middle, about half used up.


Welch is from Massachusetts--SURPRISE!! Maybe Jane can interview him on her next show..learn some new tricks of the how to stuff exculpatory evidence in socks or something.


Well he's no longer a 'potted plant' if he ever was. I'm curious though what was Steven's argument to some of this 'evidence'
that was presented, they must havechallenged
some of it. They did go to extraordinary lengths commented on here, by Flynn "Daddy"
to get him convicted, including that faithless juror who skipped town, bringing
the verdict that much closer to Election Day. One has to ultimately fault Judge Sullivan, who seemed to sanction this
travesty with his motions.


The defense repeatedly asserted that the DoJ attys were crossing the line but the guillotine fell when one of the FBI agents in the case presented his charges against his fellow agent and the prosecutors in an affidavit.
Yes, the judge was very lenient..but they usually are with DoJ prosecutors because they are presumed to follow the highest standards and be subject to careful supervision. Unfortunately, today that reputation is not as deserved as once a few decades ago it was.


FBI doesn't come across well here, either.


Some posters elsewhere are reminded of Curt Weldon ..IIRC he and his daughter were the subject of a DOJ raid on their homes just before a close election which he then lost. And then--nada, zilch, zip prosecution.


I wonder about the states' rights questions, too. It seems to me like a bunch of residents of Washington, DC -- prosecutors, judge & jurors -- decided that they were unhappy about not having a senator, so they decided to steal one from Alaska.


The notion that Republican politicans and officials can get a fair trial in DC seems a dubious one.




I had forgetten about Weldon, that's a first, mark your calendars. The fact that he was a hawk on Russia, a proponent of missile defense, and a critic of the CIA's naivete, had nothing to do with it, He was replaced with that CAIR flunky, pro Iraq withdrawal Admiral Sestak, and that was the point of the thing.

The Oliver North trial, which is where young Jeffrey Toobin, became his smug self,
was the first sign that this was true about
D.C. The Libby trial where the jury was so riddled with anti administration sentiment and conflicts of interest, (an editor who had worked for Woodward, who had hid Armitage's role in the affair) was another wake up call

Charlie (Colorado)

Some years ago I drove from Boulder to the (old) airport in a blizzard - on the 6th of June. Had to wait for de-icing, then landed in Tucson 2 hrs later in 105 degrees.

Colorado seasons are distinguished by the fact that you can have all four of them in the space of a week, pretty much all year. When I was a kid, we had a snowball fight on La Veta Pass over Fourth of July.

But Phil Platt (of Bad Astronomy and a big warmist) was making a big AGW deal about warm weather in February. Somehow snow in April doesn't have the same evidentiary weight.


To reiterate what several commenters have already said, this is a cover up pure and simple. I have worked for two former, non-political appointee DOJ attorneys and they were both flaming liberals and acknowledged that the vast majority of career DOJ attorneys are liberals.

This was a politcal hatchet job designed to give the Democrats another seat in the Senate. Holder can act like he's being magnanimous because the prosecution has served its purpose. At the same time he can avoid scrutiny of the obvious shenanigans pulled by the Democrats at the DOJ. I would bet a lot of money that there is a paper trail that shows a political motive.

I say all of that as someone who can't stand Stevens and his crass, entitled pork barrel political philosophy.


Dear President Obama:

Though I am a die-hard Republican, I am a fellow adopted Chicagoan, so I offer up my services in an effort to keep you from embarrassing yourself and me further.

I have done an extensive amount of travel in Europe and can provide you with all the scoop that your protocol office is apparently unable to provide (note: is Goldie Hawn not available?).

First off, the British Royalty has a totally different protocol from the political class, (touching (horrors), and over familiarity is generally frowned upon). Plus the dress code needs to be stepped up. J. Crew is not a generally acceptable source of clothing, though I love J. Crew personally. Ever hear of Royal Warrants? Note to Michelle: check out press re Diana clothing pre-nuptials.

Second, anyone who has spent any time in the EU (or outside the US) knows there are different regions for television programming, thus movies, etc. must be programmed in this format. Let me take charge as the guru of multi-media to be offered to non-North American folks. I am state-of-the-art technology-wise, so I can save you a few guffaws here as well. You can rely upon me!

Further, may I dare to suggest that including your own greatest hits on the Royal IPOD may strike the Queen as a bit of effrontery?

Please, pay off my credit card debt and provide me with a reasonable salary to compensate me for dealing with all the effronteries I will doubtlessly be required to address, and I will be your faithful servant (for these cases at least).

O&M, please, don't let political partisanship keep you from effective international relations. I can be reached at I'll be awaiting your e-mail!

The Flod


Narciso, AG Holder is friends with U.S. District Court Judge Emmettt Sullivan. The two men served together as judges of the Superior Court of D.C. IMO it is easier for the Obama administration to admit errors that occurred under President Bush than to air the dirty laundry now. It will be interesting to see the outcome. And Holder began his career in the Public Integrity Section which sounds like an April Fools Joke but it isn't.

The magnificent bastard has a must read today too: The President Is 'Keeping Score'


I must admit I didn't know that fact, but the truth is the fact that it occurred in the Bush administration, has little to do with who ordered it. Alice Fisher, was conveniently
'recused' because of the Abramoff case, as if everybody and their brother didn't have some tie to him. to make way for his successor, like Ashcroft has to recuse himself, hand it over to Comey, who turned the Plame matter over to Fitz.

Imagine the outrage if a Republican prosecutor or series of them had convicted
Samuel Berger, Arthur Schulzberger, Steny Hoyer, Robert Byrd, and throw in Elliot Spitzer, the outrage would be off the charts.


Anybody still awake?

I am stunned, angry, and delighted to have just turned on the computer and seen that Ted Stevens has been exhonerated. From everything I was able to observe on a local level; (property tax records/personal accounts of his old time supporters who vouched for him etc) this prosecution was entirely political and bogus from the word go. Whoever orchestrated this selective and targeted prosecution, they very successfully wiped out Steven's, they ushered in Begich, and it cost them almost nothing.

Stevens had been very effectively turned into a dislikable, unsympathetic figure, by his "Bridge to Nowhere" and "Internet is Tubes" comments, so much so that Instapundit and Conservatives were using him as the poster child for Term Limits---yet what the heck was Stevens supposed to do to get local Alaskans jobs, what with the Justice Dept, the EPA, and the Enviro-lobby so effectively shutting down traditional Alaskan job producing efforts in mining, oil exploration, natural gas, fishing, timber etc. So now we are saddled with the uneducated, unethical Mark Begich, a high school graduate and former driver for former Dem Governor Tony Knowles, and who secretly saddled the city with millions in debt, by cutting under the table contract deals with Unions at the last minute, and skipping town just before they were revealed, and who blithly allowed his City underlings to hound a private citizen for building a snowman in his stinking front yard in Alaska in wintertime. No better rubber stamp could Obama and the Dem's wish for than this guy, and already I'm see ads paid for by promoting the weasel.

Anyhow, enough of all that. This is my guts talking in indignation and I am angry as hell about this whole damn thing. Now to go read all the previous posts and couple thousand comments to see what I've missed.

Thank you Clarice for your comment on the Riehl World link.

andrew sullivan

I believe it was Raymond Donovan, Reagan's Labor Secretary who was indicted on fraud charges and then acquited, who asked "where can I get my reputation back?"


@ 15 years ago, I had the occasion to be presented to Her Majesty as a representative of one of the Commonwealth countries. I was a fill in for the proper person, but nonetheless had to make my appearance and pay my respects. At the time I had no dress slacks with me, so I explained the problem to one of the aides de camp, who found me a pair of dress slacks to go with my tie and jacket.

Royal protocol is not to be abused, and it is the Royals who are so very gracious in the face of our plebian mistakes sometimes. She is not my queen, but she is an example to us all in her grace and goodwill. I just wish the idiots at the White House would have a clue. Their protocol office should be fired for these kinds of gaffes.

Nearly Nobody

US tax system is voluntary? I guess he is right if he is talking about Obama's cabinet.


I am still livid and have not yet got thru the comments, but want to post this for anyone else still awake. Here">">Here is the direct link to the current public property appraisal for Ted Steven's Girdwood Property. To reiterate as I understand it:

He owned it for a long time and it previously had cost him about $140,000.

He wanted to make it 2 stories high, so he got an estimate to do that, and the estimate was for approximately $130,000.

Our media out here says his wife paid out $165,000 in bills for the upgrade.

The Building assessment for FY2007 says the building value was $308,000. He had just spent 165,000 to upgrade a 140,000 cabin, so those 2 total $305,000, which makes sense.

So my overall question about this relatively dumpy cabin in relatively dumpy Girdwood. Where the hell is the other $250,000 the Government has continually said he secretely took in improvements? It darn sure isn't visible in photos">">photos of the cabin.

I will link to a year old ADN">">ADN Op-ED by a local Real Estate guy also likewise unable to figure it all out.


The Link above to Ted Steven's public Property appraisal doesn't work, so let me try again. Here">">Here or if no luck,, or if no luck, type in Parcel number 076-021-21-000 in the parcel block on this">">this page. Sorry for going on about this business, but it is so glaringly obvious that $250,000 dollars are absent in this entire equation, that I want to lay it out there for you guys so that you too wind up scratching your heads asking "What the hell was the DOJ even looking at when they started this whole thing?"

And Clarice, I fired off a nasty to Rick Moran on American Thinker (Ted Part 2), but looks like its not being printed. I would certainly not be upset if you were able to somehow dig it up and foreward it to him.

Last question. I remain way sceptical of this Judge Sullivan guy, especially after finding out he is buddy's with Holder. If Sullivan was going to start doing the right thing, when would that be? Today?, next week?, 3 months down the road? When should it be done, and timeline wise, when, if it is not done, will we know it is simply another hosejob? Thanks in advance for any answers to the above.


I heard that idiot Smerconish interview Weldon just before that election (2006?). Weldon sounded like he was resigned to losing, and as I listened I got the feeling that it (Sestak coming back to run, the FBI investigation) was all to get Weldon out, and he decided he could do nothing about it.

I was first pissed at him for not sounding more upbeat (the election was not that far away). Later I ended up feeling for him, but I became even more concerned about what was so important to get him out and Sestak in Congress.



My favorite Boulder weather moment was one day I was walking down the street on campus and it was lovely, sunny and warm. I was wearing a T-shirt.

Across the street was a blizzard.

Clarice, I will definitely talk about Welch on the radio show - first Monday morning, and again on Wed. So whatever info anyone sees on him, let me know.


LUN is the story of Welch vying for the job of US attorney from MA.


Wow, matt, you met the Queen. That is exciting.

I agree that protocol is important, whether or not one personally agrees with it. You can bet that when Barry and Michelle go to an Islamic country they will be absolutely sure to get the "little details" right.


The US tax system is voluntary?

Great! I'll just send a letter to the IRS and Harry Reid that I'm going to withhold all further tax returns and payments until I'm being confirmed for an important cabinet office.



I'm wondering something. If mel is right about GM being given to the UAW, why in the heck is Chrysler being sacrificed to the Italians? Fiat has had it's own profitablility problems in recent years and has been taking a lot of money from the Italian govt, from what I understand.

The Building assessment for FY2007 says the building value was $308,000. He had just spent 165,000 to upgrade a 140,000 cabin, so those 2 total $305,000, which makes sense.

So my overall question about this relatively dumpy cabin in relatively dumpy Girdwood. Where the hell is the other $250,000 the Government has continually said he secretely took in improvements?

Well this is part and parcel of the whole "jury of your peers" thing. In DC, the most run-down hovel in the most run-down neighborhood costs way more than $140K, and $165K will buy you only the most minor and simple thing in the way of renovations. DC is virtually the only area in the US that has seen real estate prices continue to appreciate throughout the bursting of the housing bubble.

So the judge, jurors, prosecutors, etc. were all prejudiced simply by living in a place where Alaska's actual real estate values are unimaginably low.


The IRS will not allow an appraisal for the value of real property using the assessment by your county's tax accessor. It is typically not the "real" value of your property. Having said that, the difference wouldn't be $250k.

Fresh Air


I have worked on a few ESOPs. I think it would be both a rotten investment for the unions, and completely infeasible, as the company needs all the D-I-P financing it can get for operations. There simply isn't room on the balance sheet for an ESOP loan. If it isn't a leveraged ESOP, then where does the money to buy the stock come from? It sure wouldn't come from union dues. Ask the pilots at UAL how their ESOP worked out.

Fresh Air

Yeah, I know the Treasury can loan them money. I just think that's money in a rathole and you would have a lot of seriously pissed off taxpayers after the enterprise goes in the toilet for the second time.


You can bet that when Barry and Michelle go to an Islamic country they will be absolutely sure to get the "little details" right.

Fear of beheading is a great motivator.


Why do they think FIAT could handle Chrysler
if Daimler Benz couldn't do it. Isn't this just a formula for diluting the GM shares, of those who were foolish enough to still believe in the company. That's what has happened with every company that has taken bailout funds, every capital raising effort
has been voted down or discouraged. It's like they don't understand the multiplier effect or they do understand it too well.


I forgot to take my NPR blocker (iPod) this morning when I went to the coffee shop, so I picked up a bit of commentary from a Brit guy discussing recent gift exchanges. When he got to the part about Obama giving Gordon Brown the 25-DVD set, he said, "which Gordon Brown couldn't even play because of his own problems with the various DVD equipment" (my emphasis).

Thus neatly turning it into Brown incompetence rather than a complete and utter blunder on Obama's part.

Gotta love that Brit Obama worship.


So, just wondering, did the Queen's iPod come with the right UK adapter?


Fresh Air

It seems like, normally, when you see an ESOP plan, it's a last ditch effort to protect Union jobs. There was one company here that went ESOP, and it basically cost the employee's everything when it went under. Now, I really don't think that that will mean the Obama administration won't try to force GM into it, especially if they are willing to continue pumping money into it.

I just think that's money in a rathole and you would have a lot of seriously pissed off taxpayers after the enterprise goes in the toilet for the second time.

Look at AIG, we ain't done pitching money down that hole, either.


That bring up the line Rachel Lucas, uses when
she has spotted signs of deep cultural dysfunction in the U.K. "Comeback Luftwaffe, all is forgiven". She hasn't said this anymore, but she is still critical of the crazyness in her new adopted land. They actually said this, and no one contradicted him, well it's NPR why would they know the difference.


Daddy, I think your comment did get printed. There's a delay, but I believe I saw it this morning.
There's an article in the WaPo (with a caption that repeats the slander that Stevens was given a $250k gift of the renovations) which indicates the schedule on the case.


Daddy, I've been commenting elsewhere on this, too, but I fear the slander is so deep and misinformation so widespread there is little I can do.

richard mcenroe

Narcisco -- Are you sullying the historic Italian reputation for business management?

Fresh Air


The difference between AIG and GM is AIG is not a failing business, just a company with a very bad balance sheet. If the CDS liabilities were cleaned up, an investment in AIG might be okay in the long run. With GM, nothing short of a total cleansing of legacy costs and re-do of the labor agreements will enable it to succeed. Even then, you need strong, visionary management.

Let's say for the sake of argument that Mel is correct. Give the UAL and other experiences, an ESOP would never be considered potatoes for the union, only gravy. What that means is that any likely government bailout involving an ESOP is still missing the painful stuff in the paragraph above. Hence, it would be seen as taxpayer funding of a buyout of the common stockholders benefiting the company's employees and doing exactly nothing for its prospects or anyone else. I don't think it will happen.


Obama makes another gaffe--he bows to the king of Saudi Arabia:


Obama makes another gaffe--bows to the king of Saudi Arabia:>Doing the Continental

Old Lurker

"I don't think it will happen."

Perhaps, but you gotta admit things are happening today that six months ago we would have thought impossible. Car warranties offered by the POTUS comes to mind, for a company he now runs.


Obama makes another gaffe--bows to the king of Saudi Arabia:

clarice, for those of us who don't know, why is this a gaffe, and what is the correct protocol?


Did that happen today Clarice ? Truly disgusting, Zero certainly know why he got the big money for his campaign.


Bowing to a monarch signifies one is under his power. Americans do not bow to foreign monarchs, certainly American presidents do not.


Yesterday or today--it's just on the news wires.

As to protocol --here's what it says on the Queen of England's website--and that is applicable even to people who ARE her subjects.
"The Queen meets thousands of people each year in the UK and overseas. Before meeting Her Majesty, many people ask how they should behave. The simple answer is that there are no obligatory codes of behaviour - just courtesy.

However, many people wish to observe the traditional forms of greeting.

For men this is a neck bow (from the head only) whilst women do a small curtsy. Other people prefer simply to shake hands in the usual way.

On presentation to The Queen, the correct formal address is 'Your Majesty' and subsequently 'Ma'am'. "

I met the King of Thailand and on another occasion his daughter, the Princess, and on neither occasion did I bow, nor did any american. We shook hands.

(Thais are not allowed to touch them and merely bowed deeply.)


clarice, thanks.

Isn't some kind of head bow to the Queen of England traditional?


oops, you beat me to it.

Rick Ballard


Should Telobama have asked the king to stand on a chair so he could kiss his ass without bowing?

It's sort of nice to see Abner and Daisie Mae being so well received. They're obviously being held to the lowest of standards and expectations - and they almost meet them!


His minions (seems obvious to me who they are) are racing about the IT as this goes viral claiming he was just looking down at something.HEH

His right elbow is back in a way that surely suggests a handshake and his body posture is very obviously a bow.

Remember what a big deal the left made of Bush holding the king's hand?Sock it to 'em.


Of course, he could be giving him a DVD.


I guess Obama needs to take some lessons from Jean Luc-Picard, who always put time and effort into getting the greetings right.

Maybe Obama could borrow that weird beaded thing that Picard draped over his head when meeting the foreign delegation aboard the Enterprise in ST: Insurrection.


Bowing to a monarch signifies one is under his power

Perhaps, there is more to the birth certificate thing than we know. Or perhaps it has to do with oil. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens when he meets Chavez.


Voting for Democrats is the 'voluntary' part of this statement. You vote for them and you get taxed.


I say he's bowing.

For those who claim he might not be bowing, here's what the caption on the photo says:
"Next » 0b64eSv7PzfkQ
AP Photo 21 hours ago
US President Barack Obama, center, back to camera, greets King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, center, before the official G20 leaders group photo with Britain's Queen Elizabeth II at London's Buckingham Palace, Wednesday, April 1, 2009.

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Well do we chalk it up to carelessness, or is it more in the nature of Kenya's long standing
connection to the Arabian peninsula, Why does he do things that makes us wonder if hereally understands his role at all.


"Obama makes another gaffe--bows to the king of Saudi Arabia:

clarice, for those of us who don't know, why is this a gaffe, and what is the correct protocol?"

Heads of State regard each other as equals.In the case of the King of SA,Obama is thanking a donor.

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