Saturday Morning And Away We Go

Another open thread.

Comments

[Uncle BigBad]

Where is everybody?

[Extraneus]

Speaking of suing, here's one for you, Jane.

Report: Climate Provision Would Allow Global Warming 'Victims' to Sue

The Washington Times reports that a provision in a bill authored by Democratic Reps. Henry Waxman of California and Edward Markey of Massachusetts would allow global warming victims to sue.

Hey, why not a class-action suit? $75K/yr for everyone! Well, actually more like $50K. Jane gets the rest.

Will foreign plaintiffs will have standing? We could fund the island on that.

[Captain Hate]

The provision, which was just released, reportedly would set grounds for plaintiffs who has "suffered" or expect to suffer "harm" attributable at least in part to government inaction. The provision defines "harm" as "any effect of air pollution (including climate change)," according to the Times. Plaintiffs could seek up to $75,000 in damages a year from the government, with $1.5 million being the maximum total payout.

So who is supposed to pay for this? And wtf is this "expects to suffer"? Although that's not too surprising in the context since global warming is a figment of some lefties' bong sessions.

[Jane]

Let's sue Markey and Waxman.

What a bunch of idiots.

And why the hell hasn't our captain been rescued?

[PMII]

Extraneus & Jane,
I had the same thought except when damages were being awarded I would tell them what a bunch of idiots they were....

I'm so $#&^. And not sure if it's the global warming idiots or the state of our justice department (I think Clarice should pay for my anti-depressants)

[Thomas Collins]

The Waxman/Markey provision exquisitely illustrates the difference between the amount of influence the extreme factions of the Dems and the GOP have on policy when one or the other party is in control. When the GOP is in control, no one faction has undue influence. Hard right, libertarians, Austrian School adherents, Snowe/Spector/Rockefeller Republicans, foreign policy "realists," foreign policy "neos," McCainiac tough on foreign policy/all over the place on domestic policy, Palinistas advancing the down to earth real people approach, Chris Buckley oligarchical types, Reaganite low marginal tax rates/ liberal internationalist but muscular foreign policy types, all have a place at the table but no control. When Dems are in power, the extreme wing IS the mainstream and is firmly in control.

Don't be fooled by Waxman's and Markey's age. Their brains are locked in a Sixties time warp. They never grew up.

The Chinese, Indian and Russian leaders must be amazed at their good fortune. In control of the USA are folks who are pushing policies that if not reversed will inexorably lead to the decline of the USA as the main player on the world power politics stage. They are no doubt mulling steps to try to lock in their countries' gains before the USA returns to sanity.

[sbw]

If one could sue for global warming damages I presume I could sue Waxman and Markey under their bill for the extra costs they impose.

[clarice]

TC, that is an interesting observation. I was thinking it applied to the blogging community, too. The fight is constantly fighting with eachother--there are now anti-Moran and Patterico factions and PW followers etc etc and the left is meeting weekly to coordinate messages with Rahm

[Thomas Collins]

I think you are correct about the blogosphere, clarice. There is far more diversity in the so called right leaning blogs than the left leaning ones, both in the posts of the folks running the blog site and in the comments. For example, take TM's posts and the posts in the Huffington Post, and read them over time. I guarantee you will find more nuance and more dealing with opposing arguments in TM's posts.

[bolitha]

Yes, Jane, what about the captain? I am amazed--but not really--that no rescue has been attempted--Hilary thinks it is time for international something or other. It just makes me sad and mad that the captain attempted to flee and that NOTHING was done once he was in the water! I would think that someone??? could have shot holes in the life boat? What am I missing here?

[Captain Hate]

What am I missing here?

Praznit 666 is thinking "What would Carter do" because he dealt so well with hostage situations. Maybe he'll call in Johnny Depp as a pirate expert.

[Rick Ballard]

"The Chinese, Indian and Russian leaders must be amazed at their good fortune."

Perhaps, TC. Alternatively, the Chinese slave economy seems to have lost its rosy flush of good health - pallor seems a better descriptive fit at the moment. There's still plenty of cheery spin being thrown out but other indicators point to a deepening hole. If I read that last piece correctly, more than 4 million Chinese Golden Princes will have graduated from university directly to unemployment this year. Perhaps they will be become community organizers?

The incredible shrinking Russian Bear has a similar problem, not with unemployment for graduates but with loss of oil income. What's the source of funds for further expansion?

I'm really not sure how long the dirty socialist's "sustainable death" economic policies will remain popular. We'll have to wait and see how things look when unemployment exceeds 10%. Have you made your "things I can do without"list for May yet?

[Captain Hate]

more than 4 million Chinese Golden Princes will have graduated from university directly to unemployment this year. Perhaps they will be become community organizers?

Bwak; can you imagine how the Chinese would deal with the likes of Ann Dunham's little bastard?

[Fresh Air]

So we're now going to be able to sue for an unquantifiable, non-existent "problem" that is "caused"--to the extent it exists at all--by the people of Europe, North America and Asia, but will be driven by two countries, China and India in the future. So naturally, the "future damages" award should be paid by the taxpayers of the United States.

These people are absolutely out of their goddamned minds.

[Soylent Red]

Well I don't know about all the legal mumbo-jumbo, but I do know a few things...

1. If there's a class action lawsuit in the workings, I'm in.

2. I'm taking my ill-gotten $50-75K (we need to talk, Jane) and buying the biggest gas-guzzling Hummer I can lay my hands on.

3. I'm having the aforementioned Hummer's interior done in baby seal skin.

[Cecil Turner]

I'm having the aforementioned Hummer's interior done in baby seal skin.

That's fouled up, even for this forum. (Thanks for the chuckle.)

[Thomas Collins]

Rick, I agree that other aspirants for world major domo have serious problems. I am optimistic that the USA will drain enough of the Gramscian swamp again to survive and thrive (although constant draining of the Gramscian swamp is essential).

Things I could do without in May? Well, I could do without more pronouncements from Obama on what America supposedly did wrong over the last eight years, but somehow I think that we will continue to have our fill of those pronouncements.

[daddy]

TC

"The Chinese, Indian and Russian leaders must be amazed at their good fortune."

And I think the Saudi Oil King has to be loving our decision to ban domestic drilling as well.

[ben]

I think Obama will "resolve" the pirate situation by making the shipping company pay the ransom. This will of course only encourage more piracy, but will ensure a Chamberlain-like "peace in our day".

[clarice]

Soylent! This hostage thing has gone on long enough. Mr Puk has secured a vessel for us, I've got the scimitars and eyepatches. What are we waiting for!

[PeterUK]

Clarice,
We are going for the "Keep the hostage,keep the ransom money.What you going to do out here in the ocean when your port has gone"?

[clarice]

Sounds good to me--
But it's
What ya goin' tado when your port be gone?..Fits the music better.

[sbw]

The Navy captain advise the pirates that in 30 minutes the Navy is going to have target practice in the open ocean and they just might accidentally find one 50 caliber hole below the waterline so please stay away from the stern of the boat.

And if the hostage is not healthy when divers approach the remaining swimmers after the boat sinks, then they just might not find any others to pick up.

[sbw]

The Navy captain SHOULD advise

[clarice]

Media now ignores war casualties and believe it or not we still have them:
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/04/stories_the_media_prefer_to_ig.html>Iraq

[sbw]

The BBC reporting an American tug under Italian flag with a crew of 16 has been taken. See what delay gets you?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

And why the hell hasn't our captain been rescued?

Because it's hard to sneak up on a small boat in open ocean.

[clarice]

Why don't they ever capture "human rights" activists or EU /ICC advocates? No. They have to pick on regular, hard working honorable folks.
I'd trade the entire UN Human Rights Commission for the hostages.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

What am I missing here?

That it's hard to tell one guy is swimming away from a boat in the middle of the night from a quarter mile away.

[Ignatz]

"Let's sue draw and quarter Markey and Waxman."

More satisfying and considerably cheaper.

I was thinking it applied to the blogging community, too. The fight is constantly fighting with eachother--there are now anti-Moran and Patterico factions and PW followers etc etc and the left is meeting weekly to coordinate messages with Rahm

I think in the long run the conflict and competition scenario beats the lockstep totalitarian moron scheme. That's why I'm not pessimistic; freedom thrives eventually even if it's like grass through a sidewalk.

[clarice]

Well, Ignatz, you may be right..but the contrast is telling.

[clarice]

And now Kristof's gone silent on Darfur:
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/04/kristofs_strange_silence_on_da.html>Kristof, the phony crap weasel

[Rick Ballard]

"Why don't they ever capture "human rights" activists or EU /ICC advocates?"

'Cause they're on the same team. Kinda like the UN trash that keeps buying geography books that don't show Israel for Palis.

[Ignatz]

Rick, I agree that other aspirants for world major domo have serious problems.

Spengler makes the case that regardless of Barry's behavior the US will come out of this mess more dominant.

[Ignatz]

That 12:43 post of mine had this link in it, which worked in preview, just at it did in this one.
Typhus. Pheh.

[clarice]

Right, Rick--it was one of those rhetorical questions for those still tiding about on the SS Rachel Corey.

[Old Lurker]

Hey Soy, I know a guy that can remove the catalytic converter from that Hummer when it gets out of the upholstery shop. For a little extra, we can convert it to use leaded gas. Interested?

[clarice]

Ignatz, what an interesting article.. No one can ever say Spengler isn't an original thinker...

[Ignatz]

I really haven't had too many TyhpusPad issues until the last couple of days when it started eating links and italics and pretty much any html code that were there in preview.
Anybody else noticing increased uselessness on TP's part lately, or is it just my computer?

[Cecil Turner]

Oh "the horror!"

The baby seals I befriended just two short weeks ago on these ice floes will fall victim to an incomprehensible drive to kill beautiful, charismatic, and intelligent creatures merely for their skins.

Not sure how you "befriend" a baby seal, but I bet it's uplifting. She rocks . . . you guys suck.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Okay, folks, I get the frustration but think it out. The lifeboat is in open ocean with warships around it but several hundred yards away. Thedre are four pirates and one guy, in a lifeboat that is going to look somewhat like this. Fifteen feet long, 10 wide. It's not an open whaleboat.

No, you don't shoot one end of it with a .50 from 300 yards and feel confident you won't sink it or kill random people. And you don't use snipers because (a) it's closed and you can't see them, (b) they don't put a lot of skilled snipers aboard ships at sea.

Similarly, you don't send SEALS to SCUBA over and attack them, because (a) SCUBA-ing from a ship to a lifeboat across 300 yards of open ocean where everything is moving is a good way to need two rescues and not get all your SEALs back anyway (b) if they managed to find the damn lifeboat, they have to climb up over the gunwales silently, bust in the doors, and take all four pirates by surprise before they can kill the Captain, and (c) they don't put SEALs aboard random ships at sea anyway. SEALs tend to have littoral missions; they're largely based on land, and there aren't a lot of them anyway.

You do keep them from being resupplied and don't let them do anything that has the chance of getting the Captain ashore. You also put as much sea power on station as quickly as possible.

And frankly, you don't piss off the pirates by making a large crater out of their home ports until after you get the Captain back, because you might just make them angry enough to cut his throat even if it means cutting their own in the bargain.

So far, everything the Navy has done pretty much exactly what you'd do if you don't want to spoil the whole day for a lot of people in Vermont.

On the other hand, if you're a pirate, you don't give him up unless you have a deal. If you kill him, plan on your lifeboat becoming a large hole in the water with associated pink mist. If he swims away, ditto. You do try to raise the stakes -- threaten to kill more hostages or use them as "human shields" -- which is what they're clearly trying. It's undesirable for the Navy to shoot up these other ships; expect some pretty aggressive ship handling and a bunch of scraped paint. But the pirates, at this point, know they're not really getting any money out of the deal; they're just trying to see pirate bay again.

Now, once they guy is released, that's something else. If O has any goddamn sense -- a big if, I agree -- he'll figure out that he can't let this kind of thing go on. There's no Somali government to speak of to threaten, but you use whatever communications you have to let them knpw you're blockading all Somali ports and the whole coast; ships or boats aren't allowed to enter Somali waters, and any ship or boat attempting to leave without permission and a known course will be fired upon, without warning. Including hijacked ships. Add in some restrictions on money transfers.

Pretty quick, it stops being profitable. These aren't ideologues, they just figured out that piracy pays better than fishing.

[Danube of Thought]

I have two suggestions about the pirates:

First, for the immediate problem concerning the captain, I believe it would not be too difficult for a group of SEALS to approach the lifeboat underwater and undetected, and to lob a few flash-bang grenades into the boat, incapacitating all on board. Then they clamber aboard, and it's over.

Second, for the larger problem of Somali pirates in general, I think it would be possible to dramatically reduce the pace and scope of their operations by mining each and every port on the Somali coast out of which the "mother ships" operate. In fact right now--while a number of "reinforcement" pirate vessels are at sea--might be an excellent time to do it.

Different subject (the Waxman proposal): the "expect to" part is the real camel's nose under the blanket. Twenty years ago or so the courts began to recognize a cause of action for "cancerphobia": that is, if you operated a plant somewhere that was to believed to have carcinogenic effects on the surroundings, anyone who feared that he someday might get cancer was entitled to sue.

Why do I think our society is doomed?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

And now Kristof's gone silent on Darfur: Kristof, the phony crap weasel.

Now, that's not fair. Kristof is a real crap weasel.

[Old Lurker]

ABC News radio in DC just reported that the Justice Dept is considering filing criminal charges against the pirates. Wow, couple that with the John Kerry hearings and we'll have this problem licked in to time. Don't need no stinkin Thomas Jefferson naval antics...

[Charlie (Colorado)]

DoT, see my note that crossed over with you. Your flash-bangs bounce off the hull topside, fall in the water, and stun or kill the swimmers.

[PD]

Headline from today's local paper:

Wind farm muddle's weather radar's view

A meteorologist says the giant, moving turbines create false storm readings that can reduce the effectiveness of warnings.

[PD]

Justice Dept is considering filing criminal charges against the pirates.

Maybe this is a silly question, but just what is that supposed to accomplish?

[Old Lurker]

". . . you guys suck."

Lighten up some maybe? It's Saturday.

[Soylent Red]

I'm down on the catalytic converter global warming enhancement.

And as for your defense of the baby seal, Cecil... I'll have you know they taste just like California Condor. With a some fava beans and a nice chianti.

Now, if Congress will simply issue Clarice, PUK and I our Letters of Marque, I'll be all set, ye scurvy seadogs.

Because I'm all about the booty and the yo, ho, ho.

[clarice]

Well, after the first World Trade Center bombing Fitzgerald indicted Osama Bin Ladin and that really worked.

[clarice]

Cecil the HSUS is not the organization people think it is:

http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm?oid=136

Another leftist band of crap weasels.

[Old Lurker]

What it means is these Clinton retreads are pulling a Rip Van Winkle from their masterful treatment after WTC I bombings, and it's as if they have awoken from their long sleep through the entire 9/11 response.

So DoT's last line above applies.

[narciso]

It doesn't accomplish anything, that's the point of the exercise, for starthow do you deliver the subpoena, do they have e-mails of fax machines, Stephen Decatur is rolling over in his grave, so's John Paul Jones.
We did? have a forward base at Camp Lemonier
in Djibouti, I remember running into some one in a store, who had served two tours in Iraq and a third their, and he knew enough
details for me to know he wasn't bluffing

[clarice]

I'm ready , Soylent. Just packing up the tango CDs and we're set.

[Captain Hate]

Okay, folks, I get the frustration

With all respect to your insight, you're not addressing my frustration: This is just the first of many such incidents (probably progressively worse) that come from having such a zero in the White House. Prezinet Present is going to handle this poorly but his mere presence has emboldened all miscreants that wish us ill. In this and in every other way: We are so screwed. Carter 2 only worse.

[Soylent Red]

Narciso:

Lemonier is still there and still has the same mission. All they need is for Obama to unhook the leash.

Clarice:

Forget going Galt. We're going Ragnar! Does Best Buy sell CDs of sea shanties and where does one secure a "hornpipe"?

[clarice]

Got a bead on the hornpipes.. but I think Best Buy's out of business, isn't it?

http://www.hornpipe.com/hp/bouzouki.htm

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Captain, as I said, I get your frustration. But contact with reality is usually a good thing, and the reality is that as long as you want to recover the other captain alive, they're doing what they can and should.

If you don't, then a bunch of 20mm shells would solve the problem, and not waste a bunch of expensive SEALs.

What will be telling is what comes after.

[Mark O]

Doomed. There can be no question that everything will have changed dramatically during the BHO period. The idea of indicting pirates in NY is something from Bloom County or Pogo. It has been many years since I studied the law of the sea, but my recollection is that it is essentially lawless. Maybe the pirates would let the captain go if Obama were to bow to them.

Jeeze. I need lighten up.

[Rick Ballard]

"Maybe this is a silly question, but just what is that supposed to accomplish?"

Tarnish the pirate's image in the Somali blogoshere?

Ignatz,

Thanks for the Spengler link. He has the demographics right but I'm not sure that he has a firm grip on the current American reluctance to spend nor a grasp on how little money is actually required to fulfill American needs. He's not alone in that respect - the dirty socialists playing games in DC are even more clueless.

I haven't seen any news on how Turbo's "we're from the government and we're here to help" plan is doing in signing up suckers "partners". Treasury must be so overwhelmed by the response that they can't even issue a press release.

[glenda]

to TC's comments about Waxman & Markey's proposition on gw--Markey, yes, a Kennedy clone Mass liberal loon, but Waxman..??? should we really make fun of someone with such large holes in his face he can suck the entire room in with his nostrils? He could be studied to become our next "smart weapon"

And, the pirates??? At dark, some seals could scuba and punch holes in bottom(wait until he sees or hears movement inside) and more could be waiting nearby to pick them off as they abandon ship--it would be easy picking out who was the American.

by the way, yesterday--40th wedding anniversary-thank you very much!

[Jane]

Now, once they guy is released, that's something else. If O has any goddamn sense -- a big if, I agree -- he'll figure out that he can't let this kind of thing go on.

I expect he is planning an entitlement program as we speak. First of all he has to invite the pirates and their families to move to Boston.

Maybe this is a silly question, but just what is that supposed to accomplish?

I see Clarice beat me to the answer.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Soylent, if they don't Amazon has a bunch, and a hornpipe is actually a dance.

[Ignatz]

"At dark, some seals could scuba and punch holes in bottom..."

That's not gonna work.
Soylent already skinned them and used them for seat covers.

[PD]

Good news. Obama does take secrecy of Presidential Matters seriously.

[clarice]

Happy anniversary, glenda.

[Old Lurker]

"I haven't seen any news on how Turbo's "we're from the government and we're here to help" plan is doing in signing up suckers "partners". Treasury must be so overwhelmed by the response that they can't even issue a press release."

Rick, two clues. Several big investors expressed doubts about getting in bed with a fickle partner. Then late last week Treasury said they were thinking of selling bonds in the scheme to individual investors "so they could share in the return". Next stop, Lottery Tickets maybe?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Got a bead on the hornpipes.. but I think Best Buy's out of business, isn't it?

That's Circuit City. Best Buy is doing rather well. Especially since CC went away.

At dark, some seals could scuba and punch holes in bottom(wait until he sees or hears movement inside) and more could be waiting nearby to pick them off as they abandon ship--it would be easy picking out who was the American.

Glenda, I think you're underestimating the difficulties posed by swimming underwater in the dark across a quarter mile of open ocean to a drifting boat the size of a good sized persian carpet. Also the difficulties posed in quietly poking holes in a composite hull meant for dropping 50 feet into the ocean in an icy sea. besides, those things are built to be as unsinkable as possible: if you did poke holes in the hull, what you'd get is four pirates and a good guy with wet feet.

by the way, yesterday--40th wedding anniversary-thank you very much!

Don't thank us, it wasn't our doing.

[glenda]

Ignatz & Charlie..you are cracking me up!
(it is much appreciated)

[Soylent Red]

and a hornpipe is actually a dance.

Aaaargh and blow me down! Sharp larnin' curve to this piratin', says I!

Seriously...

The key to this pirate business starts on land. After this particular incident is resolved (and I believe that it should be resolved with extreme violence, casualties be damned), we need to move on the land bases and trafficking elements that support the skinnies on the boats.

Once you eliminate the support and the means to market, you take away the profitability and the motivation.

Those things you also do with extreme applied violence, not through paying ransoms and further encouraging the behavior.

All that being the case, my prediction is that we will have piracy running amok for the next 3 1/2 years or until someone comes along who understands the value of the prudent use of force.

[clarice]

Or someone who'll tell all those Somalis that when this over they can't come home to Minneapolis and go on the dole again.

[narciso]

Happy anniversary, Glenda, didn't have a chance to ask how the family was doing last time. Of course, the lawyers will scarf up the settlement, and leave with maybe $10 bucks a piece whilr they shut down all the offending industry, that isn't affected by acp n trade.

Soylent, I figured that about C. Lemonier, when links to Seals standing by, that had to be the staging area, but it he likely to do so? By not forcing out the Al Shahab which apparently has been recruiting stateside, who give sanctuary to the pirates, just like the Barbary Pirates last time, we are opening up another are of vulnerability.

Charlie, my Buddhist friend, you're being far too charitable, in too many areas I have full confidence in the military, but not so much in the civilian overseers, Rosa
Brooks as defense spokesman, in which
'bearded spock; universe does this make sense

[Cecil Turner]

Cecil the HSUS is not the organization people think it is

I just went there for the picture . . . I'm pretty sure I have very little in common with do-gooders who "befriend" baby seals. But if I don't get all outraged at Soylent's upholstery choices . . . who will? (Actually, it'd probably be a good time; I hear prices are way down.)

. . . (b) they don't put a lot of skilled snipers aboard ships at sea.

Yeah, Bainbridge isn't really the best-equipped ship to handle this sort of thing. Boxer, however, is another kettle of fish entirely. But even then, the rescue of a single person at sea is problematic, if zero casualties is the measure of merit.

[boris]

Have a nuke sub surface right under the lifeboat. If they refuse to come out with the hands up set the damn thing on fire.

[Cecil Turner]

Y'know after looking at this stuff a bit, the ROE for the piracy patrols is ridiculously restrictive. They essentially have to catch pirates in the act, and then often just release 'em.

Apparently there were two UNSC resolutions on piracy (the first being a six-month program the second formalized) which essentially asked member states to provide forces to treat Somali pirates as if they were on the high seas (because Somalia was dysfunctional). By my reading of UNCLOS, that leaves punishment up to those who seized the ship:

Article 105
Seizure of a pirate ship or aircraft
On the high seas, or in any other place outside the jurisdiction of any State, every State may seize a pirate ship or aircraft, or a ship or aircraft taken by piracy and under the control of pirates, and arrest the persons and seize the property on board. The courts of the State which carried out the seizure may decide upon the penalties to be imposed, and may also determine the action to be taken with regard to the ships, aircraft or property, subject to the rights of third parties acting in good faith.

But the current agreements are to turn pirates over to Kenyan courts (where the punishments are apparently not very strict). Seems to me we're going to have to get a lot more draconian to provide a realistic "downside" to multimillion dollar ransoms (in a place where a dollar-a-day is good money).

[Old Lurker]

40?

Damn, Glenda, that is good work!

[Danube of Thought]

First, there are plenty of SEALS deployed to that area, and in fact there are eighteen of them aboard Maersk Alabama as we speak. I will bet my last dollar that there are SEAL platoons aboard both Bainbridge and Halyburton right now.

Second, the ship-to-boat scuba transit would be a piece of cake for these guys. It's my understanding tht the lifeboat is adrift, and the SEALS would move with the current in the same direction and speed as the lifeboat.

Third, I'm aware that it's a covered boat (I've seen the pictures), and it goes without saying that you do not throw a flash-bang device at it; rather you insert through any of a number of openings in the cover. Getting up over the gunwale is no problem; they do comparable things in BUD/S training as a matter of course.

When and if you do this depends on your assessment of the captain's likelihoond of survival in the absence of such an action.

I don't know about other peoples' frustrations. I'm not frustrated; I'm just laying out a feasible course to pursue to get the man back, and a subsequent course to seriously impair the entire piracy operation.

I have very serious doubts that Obama will authorize either action. I suspect that the most likely outcome of the immediate problem is the payment of a ransom, with all the consequences that that entails.

[Soylent Red]

Narciso:

Al Shahaab is going to be a problem, pirates or not. My prediction is that we will be back in Somalia, or greater northeast Africa sometime in the next five years, like it or not. The entire area is either a failed or failing state, AQ is looking for a place to retrograde and lick their wounds, and it stands close enough to various energy and commercial interests to be dangerous to overlook.

Will Obama get with the program? That I cannot predict. Darfur or this Somali pirate business could be good points of entry to a greater regional cleanup operation, but this foreign policy business is just such a distraction from radically altering the economic basis of the U.S. and spreading the wealth around a little.

My guess, FWIW, is that this incident will be made to go away with U.S. dollars, and that our Preznit will go blubbering to the U.N. to put together a commission/task force/study group to solve the problem for us, multilaterally. Which we will then finance for the next umpteen years with more U.S. dollars, and back up with strongly worded memos addressing root causes and underlying cultural inhibitors. Forcefully. With firm resolve.

[Soylent Red]

Oh, and in the meantime?

I'd reschedule that yachting excursion from Yemen to Madagascar until sometime after 2012.

[narciso]

Sadly true, Soylent, as the problem began in Kenya (ahem) and spread northwestern, just like the quat traffic, by the way, why not Soylent Green, other than the obvious

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Soylent, I agree with you on most of those points. Still want to wait until we recover Captain Phillips unless you want to see a lot of Oprah television from Vermont.

Boris, nukes don't have a flat spot on top any more, it's not like the old movies. Most likely if you surface under a lifeboat, it slithers off the deck and drifts away. Even if it doesn't, you get a hostage standoff on the hull, with Somali pirates against Navy cooks or enginemen: they don't normally put SEALs or Marines in subs either.

[Cecil Turner]

. . . they don't normally put SEALs or Marines in subs either.

But when they do, it's kinda neat.

[Danube of Thought]

"they don't put a lot of skilled snipers aboard ships at sea."

That's true of a US warship's normal ship's complement; although each of them has a small-arms team, there is no requirement (at least in my day) that any of them have sniper training.

But this is pretty much beside the point. Special Ops people are routinely transported to, and temporarily stationed aboard, surface warships when there is any requirement for them. Believe me, there are snipers aboard every US vessel now on the scene, but it's not very likely that they will have occasion to act.

[Soylent Red]

Hey, um...I know I should know this but...

Isn't this a JSOC/Delta type of thing? I know they draw heavily from the SEALs and I was under the impression that this is what they were organized for.

[bolitha]

Okay--I believe that American people will NOT stand for the notion that a brave captain risks life to escape while our Navy cannot or will not punish terrorist/pirates. The question is how long before Americans react?

[Danube of Thought]

Soylent, it could be Delta Force, SEAL Team Six (or whatever it's called now), SEALS from any of the other teams, or a combination of any or all of them, and others. There's no issue of "jurisdiction" for these kinds of operations.

[Soylent Red]

Bolitha:

Our current standing record for sitting placidly by while a feckless Democrat in the Oval Office dithers is 444 days.

I don't think it will get to that.

[Danube of Thought]

"The question is how long before Americans react?"

Probably not very long. But imagine their reaction to an effort resulting in the death of the captain. (On the other hand, if he dies after prolonged inaction there will be hell to pay.)

[glenda]

Soylent--I don't think Obama and his minions understand the strength it would show or the respect the USA could garner with a strong successful rescue of Phillips.
But payoffs seem to be all they understand.

And the French(who certainly aren't famous for military action, first) went after the young couple and their child on a sailboat, just yesterday. Yes, the Father was killed, but the child was saved. **This is a sad story of stupid people doing a stupid thing and putting their childs' life in danger. The man's first log entry was in regards to evading the KNOWN pirates in the area!**

Whoever had the idea of crushing the ports with pirate ships docked has my vote. Really...aren't they some Errol Flynn movies Obama could watch to get a clue??

[Captain Jack Aubrey]

One more thing to love about Islam; piracy against infidels is halal. And if you haven't noticed, no Chinese or Russian flagged ships have been captured. Funny how it's mainly the Europeans and Americans and small nations who are paying the price.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Um. DoT, I think you missed a couple of specifics.

(1) I don't doubt that any random SEAL could swim across 300 yards of open ocean in calm seas and good conditions with occasional looks at the boat. Doing so covertly, at night, to a lifeboat that subtends just under a degree, in open ocean with random eddies, is a task that would daunt Aquaman.

I dunno. Maybe SEALs really could do it. But if someone told me that as a war story, I don't think it would generally be believed.

(2) Again, climb aboard an OPEN boat, hell yeah. Silently climb aboard? Tell me another one.

Believe me, my respect for special operators is nearly unbounded; I've known a few. But the first "S" in SEAL doesn't stand for "Superman."

[Soylent Red]

I hate to posit this. I really do.

Could Obama be having a crisis of conscience because these are Africans? I don't mean it from a racial standpoint (as I'm sure some would read into that), but rather from a "try to understand their root causes" standpoint.

[Bill in AZ]

Cecil, in addition to the ROE's you dug up, we have to wait for poll results to come out on Monday or Tuesday so Small Barry will know whether the American people really want him to do something. Then we have to wait for the FBI, DC Chief of Police, Town Clerk, White House Mail Room Clerk, and anyone else he thinks ought to be consulted before making a move. SEALs have probably been swimming laps around that boat waiting for Small Barry to allow them to do something.

[Soylent Red]

I don't think it would generally be believed.

Not even if it started with "No shit. There I was..."?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

But when they do, it's kinda neat.

True enough. There were attack subs being built specifically for the littoral mission too. Amusingly, the USS Jimmy Carter is one of them.

On the sniper thing, the question was "why haven't they done anything." The longer we wait, the more interesting stuff they'll have.

So now tell me you think even Marine snipers can manage four simultaneous head shots through that hull at 300 yards in 5-ft seas.

[narciso]

Look the French leadership has been at uneven at times, but they launched an Alpha Strike against Hezbollah positions, when even the Reagan administration wouldn't
(Chuck Pfarrer, the Navy seal was an observer on the operation) And Sarkozy for some of his other faults is more forceful than most, kind of a French Maverick unlike the other Enarque mandarins

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Capt Jack, actually Chinese ships have been taken .

Not even if it started with "No shit. There I was..."?

Not even if they started with "Once upon a time."

It's good to know the old wisdom still survives.

[PD]

Could Obama be having a crisis of conscience because these are Africans? I don't mean it from a racial standpoint (as I'm sure some would read into that), but rather from a "try to understand their root causes" standpoint.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the racial aspect. In Audacity of Hope, he refers to slavery as "America's original sin" a couple of times. Clearly he's bringing some personal issues to the presidency.

[clarice]

Meanwhile I stand on the broiling hot deck in my pirate outfit singing:
"Und ein Schiff mit acht Segeln
Und mit fünfzig Kanonen
Wird liegen am Kai."
The life of a pirate girl is not easy.

[glenda]

Jane..oh..Jane..

Tiger will have to make his move today.Maybe the rains last night will help.
Fingers crossed!