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April 23, 2009

Comments

Jane

So on Fox they are reporting that COngress was briefed on the interrogations more than 30 times, and had the authority to stop them any time.

Show trials might indeed be more effective than an election.

Let's start with San Fran Nan

BR

Thank you, TM, for the analysis.

I suppose all this attention by the Obama camp on past administration practices also helps to deflect attention from his own actions, like the latest outrageous tapping of Rosa Brooks:

Pentagon aiding Senators investigating interrogation of terrorist suspects, 4/23/09, by Jim Kouri:

"Meanwhile, Los Angeles Times columnist Rosa Brooks is being tapped by President Barack Obama to serve as a Pentagon advisor on issues of national security. Brooks is expected be an advisor for Michele Flournoy, the Undersecretary of Defense.

"Many believe that Obama’s selection is an indication of his disinterest in protecting the American people since Brooks possesses a reputation as being a left-wing, anti-military journalist with connections to multi-billionaire radical activist George Soros.

"Brooks also possesses a reputation for being an outspoken It is a well known fact that she has been an apologist for Islamic terrorists and has criticized the counterterrorism efforts of the United States and Israel! Rosa Brooks used to work as an advisor for George Soros’s Open Society Institute. Soros is the anti-American billionaire who had been actively financing and supporting the attacks on President Bush and conservatives in general."

verner

Shane:Removing from the scene such dedicated and skilled plotters as Mr. Mohammed, or the Indonesian terrorist known as Hambali, almost certainly prevented future attacks.

Then why are we arguing about the nit picking details?

Case Closed.

verner

Shane:But the same memorandum reveals in a footnote [p. 121 of 124] that Mr. Mohammed, captured on March 1, 2003, was waterboarded 183 times that month. That striking number, which would average out to six waterboardings a day, suggests that interrogators did not try a traditional, rapport-building approach for long before escalating to their most extreme tool."

Quote from KSM "Soon you will know."

Again, case closed.

I'm surprised after an answer like that they would wait even ONE day.

verner

As I've been stating repeatedly, we need to call for clarity over that 183 number, because a bunch of dolts are going to take it to mean that KSM had 183 sessions of multiple pours, and that's very different from what we're actually talking about.

bad

Scott Shane... Is this the same reporter who had so many struggles with reporting on Obama, Bill Ayers, and the Chicago Annenberg challenge?

As I recall he was nasty to Dr. Steve Diamond.

sbw

When they were children, my offspring could polish of "183 sessions" without reloading their Super Soakers.

verner

Have we noticed how these people are avoiding the obvious, and straining with every fiber of their being to make this look good for the floundering Obama administration?

Quel Supris!

clarice

Very good TM--I am writing a piece for PM on the memos and it occurred to me that people who have to use the evidence with such great selectivity and are already moving the goalposts, probably do not have such a great argument.
hoekstra and Cheney have girded their loins ao Rahm in his tutut and O in his swim trucnks better suit up fast.

verner

Earth to Press corp. Because of the very strict guidlines they had to document how many times they poured water on his face, thus the 183 number. DUH

The terrorists told the absolute truth about everything to the IRC, except for KSM, who lied and said he was only water boarded 5 times instead of 183.

Suckers.

clarice

It's hard to keep track--5 x 183x--when you're having fun.Oh, and i want to hear Leahy bitch in hearings that we were just like the Nazis when we released the photo of a hairy KSM in his underwear.

clarice

**Hoekstra and Cheney have girded their loins so Rahm in his tutu and O in his swim trunks better suit up fast***.

Jane

I want to hear the reason Leahy didn't express any outrage when it was happening.

clarice

Anyone have an response to this?

April 21, 2009

Statement by the Director of National Intelligence
Mr. Dennis C. Blair

I recommended to the president that the administration release these memos, and I made clear that the CIA should not be punished for carrying out legal orders.
I also strongly supported the president when he declared that we would no longer use enhanced interrogation techniques. We do not need these techniques to keep America safe.

The information gained from these techniques was valuable in some instances, but there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means. The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security.


# # #

bad

Clarice, wasn't that particular statement released **after** Blairs earlier statements that said we got good info from the techniques used?

As I recall, this was seen as an after the fact toeing the line sort of thing.

verner

Clarice, my message to Blair was PUT UP OR SHUT UP

He makes this broad brush statement with absolutely no substantiating date--and popularity polls taken on the Arab street don't count.

On the contrary, we are now measurably WEAKER. What intelligence agency is going to trust us, or cooperate with us under Obama? They run the risk of having some Soros connected neo-marxist appointee outing their stuff to the NYTs and getting hauled in front of a judge at the Hague.

Jane

AKA cowtowing bad.

anduril

"...there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means."

I love intellectual rigor. In this case, however, it approaches rigor mortis.

And tell that to the Clinton admin retreads in the WH, who by all accounts were big into renditions to countries that didn't need to waterboard people 6x/day for a month to get the information they wanted. Well, this will all come out. Unless Pelosi and a few others decide discretion may well be the better part of foolhardiness.

bad

Fancy Nancy has PROMISED their will be hearings.

'Course we all know how much a Nancy promice is worth...

clarice

Thanks--I saw this after i wrote my article--figured it was nonsense and just wanted to get the benefit of some folks whose judgement I trust before i decided it didn't warrant a reopening of my argument and a revision of the memo.

Later and thanks..

Jane

Mr President is apparently meeting with both leaders of Congress. Let us guess that he is begging them to not hold hearings.

verner

Jane, that's the impression I got when he said he would veto them yesterday.

Should be start with the genie out of the bottle, dye is cast, reaping the whirlwind kind of analogies yet?

clarice

I did update the memo for this --Goss says releasing the memos crossed a red line.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/04/goss_obama_decision_crossed_a.asp>Red line

clarice

Oh, great the SecDef is a dumb cluck--he says he supported the release of the memos in large part cause he figured they'd leak out anyway.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/23/AR2009042302446.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR>Where are those bomb shelter blueprints?/a>

verner

It's good to see Stephen Hayes' bi line on this issue.

bad

Good for Goss!!

The Strategic MC

"Anyone have an response to this?..."

Kinda covered all of his bases didn't he?

I believe that this is called CYA. Ever heard of it?

Deeny is also trying to be a good team member and is helping the Obama Admin by getting back on message.

PaulL

The information gained from these techniques was valuable in some instances, but there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means.

It's possible that if we had just extended the hand of friendship to KSM, given him some love and respect, he would have told us what we wanted to know. There's just no way of knowing, darn it!

Ignatz

-The information gained from these techniques was valuable in some instances, but there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means.-

Rubbish.
We resorted to 'enhanced interrogation' when they quit talking, so it apparently could not have been obtained by other means from them.
If we subsequently obtained the same information from other sources we would in fact know that we did.

So there is a way of knowing whether we could have obtained this info by other means, and we know that we didn't.

bad

David Frum is sticking up for Jane Harmon. LUN

The Strategic MC

"Denny is also trying to be a good team member..."

bad

bye bye italics

Charlie (Colorado)

Deeny is also trying to be a good team member and is helping the Obama Admin by getting back on message.

And besides, Rahm knows where the DNI lives.

bad

Chaco, d'ya 'spose he's gotten a dead fish yet?

Jane

Verner,

WEll since the President was in the COngress when the briefings are given, I think he should be held accountable. And we should start with him, since the buck stops there.

bad

I don't know Jane. He'll be able to point out his attendance record and say, "What are the odds"?

Jane

Makes no difference because he is Mr. Accountability! And he got paid.

MayBee
The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security.

Two things

1- Did any foreign intelligence agencies refuse to work with the CIA or did any of our allies refuse to accept CIA intelligence because they were disgusted with our methods?

2- Is it possible the loud and constant cries of "CIA Black Site Torture Prisons!", "Gitmo Torture Camp", and "Torture memos!" hurt our reputation with our enemies, rather than the actual techniques used?

MayBee

our reputation (not our reputation with our enemies).

bad

Nancy is claiming she as NEVER told about waterboarding.

Maybe it was called overseas spa treatments in the presentation.

MayBee

Ha!

bad

Nancy claims Congress was never told about enhanced interrogation techniques, including waterboarding.

Will any Republicans step up and say, "hey I remember that briefing"

sbw

"Cowtowing" is pulling a ruminant with a chain, as opposed to pulling someone's chain.

Jane

Hoekstra already has.

Now someone needs to come up with a tape.

bad

Nancy's press conference included all kinds of specific details for someone who said yesterday (or the day before) that she couldn't recall a briefing.

Supposedly, they were told we had certain techniques, and statements from legal saying the techniques were legal, but Congress was never told they were used.

Or something like that... Seems pretty nuancy to me...

Jane
"Cowtowing" is pulling a ruminant with a chain, as opposed to pulling someone's chain.

Yeah it didn't look right to me either.

bad

Besides Hoekstra....

You can never just trust the word of a Republican, one must verify....

clarice

Obama couldn't have been there, they were given on the very days he was listening to Wright's sermons--not the bad ones though..

Jane

Yup Clarice,

I'm pretty sure that's not an excuse tho - because his ace staff was there to brief him on it.

bad

Politico has a Pelosi "never heard" story.

LUN

This at the end is hilarious:

Pelosi says members who receive classified intelligence briefings are powerless to act on them -- or even discuss them with staff.

As a consequence, some members simply skip the meetings, so they aren't "hamstrung" by confidentiality requirements.

ha ha ha ha ha I feel so much better now.

Cecil Turner

His result is surprisingly even-handed:

That part is. But I'd note you can't read the memos without stumbling over the word SERE on practically every page (okay, every other). And yet Mr Shane can't seem to find it at all. Why is that, I wonder?

Jane

Unbelievable.

She lies thru her teeth and of course there are no consequences.

What form of government is this anyway?

Jane

Unbelievable.

She lies thru her teeth and of course there are no consequences.

What form of government is this anyway?

Dorothy Jane

The form of govt that makes you wistful and scared kind, Jane...

bad

FOX:

A criminal investigation into Freddie Mac accounting practices is underway. The CFO who committed suicide was going to be questioned in the course of the investigation. He went to Human Resources on Tuesday about taking some time off. He was to take a week off starting Tuesday night.

He was found dead early Wednesday morning.

Charlie (Colorado)

What form of government is this anyway?

The kind Churchill said was eight times better than any other.

Frightening, isn't it?

Free Radical

I think Jane meant 'kowtowing.' 'Cowtowing' is a Southern olympic event.

cathyf

Which is distinguished from "calf tagging" which is a midwestern staple. (At least until PETA finds out.)

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