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April 21, 2009

Comments

Don

The release of the relevant facts always make you look stupid.

Expect more of the same.

Cecil Turner

That's funny. I thought the last release vindicated those who claimed, essentially: "looks a lot like SERE School." Though I must admit I was a bit surprised it would be because, well, that's exactly what it was. And I think those lefties who insist this "proves the CIA tortured" ought to have an answer for TM's question above. (Or at the very least, they ought to start clamoring for the end of the ongoing torture of US Servicemen.)

But by all means, let's not stop now. If the lefties can have all the Top Secret legal memos declassified, I see no reason to hide what the terrorists told 'em. (Presumably they already know.) That way the American people can get a pretty good idea what we won't be learning under our new leadership . . . and we can all decide whether we like the change.

Don

Well we know they never told us where the fuck Bin Laden was.

centralcal

Obama "open" to prosecution of officials who cleared interrogation tactics.

Oh, I bet he is open to it alright.

Don

Incidentally Maguire, why do you still have a default belief that anything Cheney says is true? The guy's a liar plain and simple.

Did he have a memo written for him praising his new torture regime? I'm sure.

Meanwhile the fact that the CIA destroyed the tapes should tell you all you need to know.

Dave C.

Prez O is doing the country a service by letting the conversation about the merits of torture take place. This is better than letting the questions linger. It allows both the proponents of "enhanced interrogation" and opponents of torture to have their say, for posterity's sake. Also, the fact that Obama is "managing the transparency" in a politically expedient way is only objectionable if you're not aligned with him. Forcing a skunk like Cheney to come out of his hole and demand MORE transparency (in order to defend his position) is political genius!

verner

YEAH BABY!!!!! CLAPCLAPCLAP

Best thing EVER published in the WApO

PD

Also, the fact that Obama is "managing the transparency" in a politically expedient way is only objectionable if you're not aligned with him.

If you're "managing" transparency, it proves you're not being transparent.

Ranger

Well we know they never told us where the fuck Bin Laden was.

Posted by: Don | April 21, 2009 at 01:01 PM

Yeah, because that is the only valuable information an Al Qaeda operative might have right?

Cecil Turner

Meanwhile the fact that the CIA destroyed the tapes should tell you all you need to know.

What? That CIA plays CYA? That supposed to be a surprise? And their reception of Obama, right after he released the subject memos over CIA objections, tells me all I need to know. (As if the Plame affair hadn't made it abundantly clear.)

MayBee

We'll see if some Cheney-hater in the CIA leaks documents to prove him wrong. Eh?

Don

And what did Bush's refusal to pardon Libby tell you?

verner

I read your torture.org link TM.

All in all, thin gruel. It sounded like butt covering from a few guvmnet psychologists to me.

14,000 participants. 4% had an adverse psychological effect in SERE, but the docs were able to work with them, and get them back in the program. Only .2 percent left.

And the hormone level stuff is precious. SERE is meant to induce stress, causing decreased levels of some types of hormones--duh.

Bottom line. The CIA waterboarded 3 know psychopathic mass murders and kept them from turning LA into a smouldering, death filled hole like they did to NYC on 911. The IRC interviewed them, and didn't find them beating their heads against the cell walls--no permanant damage noted.

MayBee

Um....that he didn't pardon people for political reasons?

Say what you will about Bush, he was a very principled pardoner (to the left's great disappointment).

Jane

Fr Peter and I talked about torture on the air today. He is opposed. So I asked him what he would do if someone came in and tried to take his parishioners prisoner. He said he hoped that he would be up to doing everything it takes to save his peeps.

And then we had a really interesting conversation about the courage it takes to actually face the enemy rather than rolling over and taking it.

It was very interesting, particularly given his first statement about opposing torture.

Ignatz

-Also, the fact that Obama is "managing the transparency" in a politically expedient way is only objectionable if you're not aligned with him.-

Ah, yet another one of those unintentional reminders of the unbridgable gulf between the left and American virtues and morality.

clarice

What did the prosecution of Libby tell you, Don? It told me that the Administration's enemies captured the DoJ and used it to cripple the Administration and destroy a man who'd committed no crime--- and if they could do that to him, they could do it to anybody.

Don

Good one MayBee!

The right answer is Cheney is a lying sack of human waste and a profoundly degenerate and morally flawed man.

But thanks for playing!

Ranger

Hey Don, why so angry?

Your side won the election.

Your side is exploding spending and Barry is out telling everyone who will listen that he is sorry for GWB's presidency.

So, why are you still so angry at the world?

Cecil Turner

And SERE school is torture. Or . . . maybe the lefties are just full of it.

MayBee

Don- Why do I think that is the answer to every question you ask?

Q:What time is it?
A: It's time to admit that Cheney is a lying sack of human waste blah blah blah.

Don

"And then we had a really interesting conversation about the courage it takes to actually face the enemy rather than rolling over and taking it."

You're so right Jane!!!

I always thought that "turn the other cheek" stuff was for wussies. Good to know not enough priests buy that crap anymore.

Don

Ranger-my side won the election. Sure did! I give your side most of the credit however.

Unlike your side, however, I'm determined to hold my president's feet to the fire so he doesn't end so universally despised that some incompetent bumbler from your side can take over the White House.

clarice

Tell you what, Don, if it's your life at stake, I'll counsel "turn the other cheek", but I want to make it clear, if it's mine, I want them to break the S.o.b. and make him talk.

PD

I'm determined to hold my president's feet to the fire

Okay, I'll play. For what do you think Obama deserves criticism? Not being liberal enough?

MayBee

Good, Don. Hold his feet to the fire.
Let's go back to the days when we were so beloved before KSM was water boarded.

verner

"Ah, yet another one of those unintentional reminders of the unbridgable gulf between the left and American virtues and morality."

You forgot to add that only somebody with an IQ of 85 could say something that dumb and think he was being smart.

PD

Don, I might choose "turn the other cheek" as a matter of personal conduct. I don't want my President choosing it for me as a matter of civic policy.

Rocco

You're side stood with our enemy. You're all traitors as far as I'm concerned!

Sue

"Unlike your side, however, I'm determined to hold my president's feet to the fire ...."

I'm holding my sides with laughter.

"so he doesn't end so universally despised that some incompetent bumbler from your side can take over the White House"

You mean like Clinton? Oh, I bet you meant Carter.

Jane

Hey! Where is HIt?

And what's with the italics AGAIN?

Ranger

Don,

I'm confused by your explanation. By my understanding, the Republicans are the ones who hold their politicians to account. A large number of Republicans refused to vote for Republican candidates in 2006 because they spent to much. That seems to me the definision of holding their feet to the fire.

BTW, Obama promised "net spending cuts" when he ran for president. Do you plan to hold his feet to the fire on that too?

Sue

"Do you plan to hold his feet to the fire on that too?"

Well sure. He'll just make sure he votes for him again so that someone from our side doesn't win the election. Unlike republicans who let this catastrophe into the WH to show republicans what happens when they forget they are republicans.

sbw

I'm determined to hold my president's feet to the fire so he doesn't end so universally despised

Too late.

Besides, that would be torture.

Sue

The only people who think Obama is doing what he said he would do as president are those that paid attention during the primaries. He is doing exactly what he said he would do prior to the general when he lied to the American public in order to get elected. I hope they paid attention for next time.

MayBee

It seems like Gibbs is going way too far into detail about what "might" happen in an investigation to go back.

Captain Hate

Also, the fact that Obama is "managing the transparency" in a politically expedient way is only objectionable if you're not aligned with him.-

It's a sign of how stupid Don is, even by troll standards, that he sticks around after typing this absolute nonsense. If he had any sense of shame he'd return to whatever hive of lunacy vomited this verbal chunk.

verner

Hey Don! We still have troops in Iraq and OBAMA has continued the ILLEGAL wiretapping!!!!

Hurry, get you're old "Bush as CHIMP" signs, and stick Obama's face on there--recycling and all that.

Come on boy, march march march on WASHINGTON.

STOP THE ILLEGAL WAR. AFGHANISTAN BODY COUNT!!!! FREE MUMIA!!!!NO BLOOD FOR OIL!!!!FASCIST PIGS!!!!FREE TIBET!!! NO MONEY FOR THE EVIL IMF!!!NO MORE NUKES!!!DON'T WIRETAP ME BRO!!!!!!!!

Pete Seger songs! Big puppets with skull heads!! The smell of tear gas in the morning... Think of all the fun you're missing

bad

I think you're right, Maybee.

Carolynp

You know Don, if you're right, why not release the information? I mean, we're all uber-transparent now, right? What possible reasoning could be used to justify not releasing that information? The only possible reason is that Obama realizes it will make him look badly. Sounds to me like he's the real "degenerate and morally flawed man" in this picture. I applaud Cheney's refusal to just let this go. Let's get a real picture of what we were dealing with and then we'll a bit more of the boogeyman you keep presenting to us.

bad

OTOH, Gibbs is holding the cameras and we are hearing nothing of Geithner in the hearings.

Jane
I'm determined to hold my president's feet to the fire so he doesn't end so universally despised

Yeah, that's the criteria I'd choose. WHo cares if we are safe, or prosperous or free? It's really all about being liked.

clarice

Jane, I'm worried about Hit , too. He hasn't been around for several days.

daddy

Can anyone give me Jesus's quote about if a man has 2 cloaks, trade 1 of them in for a sword?

daddy

Would holding someone's feet to the fire be considered torture?

Porchlight

Hit is missing and I don't think we've seen bgates in awhile. Maybe they are locked out?

cathyf
Fr Peter and I talked about torture on the air today. He is opposed. So I asked him what he would do if someone came in and tried to take his parishioners prisoner. He said he hoped that he would be up to doing everything it takes to save his peeps.
Jane, I think that you succumbed to the essential changing of the subject here. (I'm not just picking on you -- you just had the most conveniently available quote to ping off of.) There are two totally separate questions here -- whether or not you are willing to torture in any hypothetical situation and what those situations are is for sure an interesting and valuable discussion. But what you are hiding by wandering off (being led off) into that digression is the core fact that was revealed by the memos: our intelligence agents managed, through cleverness and determination and extensive experimentation on themselves (building on decades of experimentation on 25,000 US servicemen), to discover a method of interrogation which is not torture but from which they can reap basically the same intelligence benefits as torture.

And the answer to the question of "does x, y or z justify torture?" has now been answered: no, torture is not justified in any situation where waterboarding will work well enough.

pagar

why not release the information?

You're talking about a man who doesn't even dare release his birth certificate, probably one of the least transparent administrations in the history of this nation. Cheney's life is an open book compared to what the current administration is hiding.

Porchlight

Unlike your side, however, I'm determined to hold my president's feet to the fire so he doesn't end so universally despised that some incompetent bumbler from your side can take over the White House.

Let me see if I have this straight. We didn't hold Bush's feet to the fire so he ended up universally despised, with the end result that an incompetent bumbler from the other side took over the WH? This is what you'd like to avoid in the future?

MayBee

I'm hoping Hit went on Spring Break, and I think bgates hates me.

Jane
And the answer to the question of "does x, y or z justify torture?" has now been answered: no, torture is not justified in any situation where waterboarding will work well enough.

Cathy,

WE had already had that discussion - at least I had. I stated clearly that I didn't think waterboarding was torture.

He does, based on "seeing it" in the military.

Not much I could do with that except I cited Daddy's experience. (Daddy does crop up a lot on my show for some reason.)

But you are right about the wandering.

Captain Hate

I think bgates hates me.

Why? Perhaps they got fed up with this crummy software.

Jane

And the answer to the question of "does x, y or z justify torture?" has now been answered: no, torture is not justified in any situation where waterboarding will work well enough.

Cathy,

WE had already had that discussion - at least I had. I stated clearly that I didn't think waterboarding was torture.

He does, based on "seeing it" in the military.

Not much I could do with that except I cited Daddy's experience. (Daddy does crop up a lot on my show for some reason.)

But you are right about the wandering.

Fresh Air

Well, let's put it this way: Would Christopher Hitchens voluntarily agree to be waterboarded if he thought it really was torture?

I eagerly await his dispatches from The Iron Maiden.

Plus, it's been done THREE(!!!) times. Get over it already. There's worse stuff done in the cop shops of Chicago every weekend.

Rob Crawford

More protesters have been waterboarded in protest than terrorists.

If it's torture, shouldn't the protesters be facing charges?

glenda

Yes, I have missed hit, too! I hope his absence means he got a dream job and he's so busy, we are way down on his list of "things to do". ♥

Obama is scared of Cheney. Evidently, he and his minions are scared of anything to the right of center. And he knows he probably won the election by Acorn fraud, and if, the "extremes" get their _ _ _T together, he will be back in Hawaii, soon.
He won't want to return to Chicago since all or most of his toadies will be in jail by then.

hit and run

Yes, the hit family has been spring breaking and is now completely spring broken.

In the best way imaginable.

Myrtle Beach is fantastic this time of year.

Porchlight

Hi, Hit - great to see you and hope you and the family have been having fun!

sbw

Myrtle Beach is fantastic this time of year.

Who is she and what kind of trouble have you gotten her into?

clarice

Oh, Hit! I saw your name on the right side and by the time I went to find you, it had been buried--I've been looking thru every thread for you. Glad all is well. You have no idea how beloved all the H & Rs are .

hit and run

Porchlight, Clarice, et al...Smooches.

sbw:
Who is she and what kind of trouble have you gotten her into?

The best kind of trouble.

glenda

Whew!!!!
Hit...I was worried you were tea-bagged or something!!
Did you get buried in the sand with a caterpillar? or a crab? Was it torture?♥

bad

Maybee, I'm sure bgates doesn't hate you.

I see him at other places, including Tapper

MarkJ

Be gentle to "Don." He's not responsible for what he writes because he was obviously dropped on his head several times when he was a kid.

Rick Ballard

"Can anyone give me Jesus's quote about if a man has 2 cloaks, trade 1 of them in for a sword?"

That's probably a conflation of Luke 22:36 and 38. I'm not sure where your exegesis is heading but sticking with the moneychangers in the Temple is probably a better bet.

It's probably better to leave eisegesis to Marxist racist pigs such as the Right Reverend Wright. He's the one who taught Obama to exclude any thoughts of his blood brother as he spouted his "least of my brethren" bilge.

daddy

Thanks Rick,

Am far from a Biblical scholar but that sword comment stuck in my mind, and pops up when Jesus is falsely presented as calling for nothing other than complete pacifism and surrender.

Rick Ballard

Daddy,

It's still a fine counterbalance to the misinterpretation of "turn the other cheek". Jesus is telling the disciples "fellas, I will not be available to shepherd you, to protect you from the murderous rogues and thieves whom you will encounter as you travel spreading the Word, better take up a weapon and prepare to defend yourselves."

He also instructs them to take money and a bag as well as the swords - he returns them wholly to the world.

clarice

And sandals, Rick, sandals. My peeps, and he certainly was one of us, always like nice shoes.

Rick Ballard

Clarice,

I'm not up on customary daily foot wear for 1st century Jewish carpenters but He definitely wore sandals on the road. I find the "meek and mild" descriptions of a man of thirty who had worked with hand tools for his living to be endlessly amusing. Using a hammer, chisel, adz and spokeshave all day is just not conducive to developing the "monk's physique" favored in most depictions.

clarice

Certainly not, Rick.

Mary

The United States procecuted the Japanese as war crimnals for water boarding. We cannot hold other countries to a higher standard than we hold ourselves.

clarice

Mary--waterboarding POWs is not the same as waterboarding unlawful combatants. Axelrod counts on your not knowing what you are talking about when he sends you here. Pls tell him we're begging for more educated morons to play with.

EBJ

Can we jail the waterboard folks if the folks that illegally forced Japanese-Americans into barbed wire 'camps' during WWII weren't prosecuted? And what about the kids that died at Waco? Where is justice for them?

O is no fool. He needs to keep the hard left onboard and the ambiguity is the price.

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Wilson/Plame