Torture Trials - Bring It On!

Obama cracks open the door for torture trials, or Congressional hearings, or (his favored choice if he has to choose) some sort of non-partisan truth commission.

Loose the hounds!  This will be pandemonium we can believe in - as I noted, since the left wants investigations and the right wants more torture memos, it is a good bet that we will get more of something on this topic.

Chris Rovzar at NY Magazine makes a similar point with admirable, albeit amusing, confidence:

Former vice-president Dick Cheney took a gamble yesterday when he told Sean Hannity on Fox News that he'd requested that certain CIA memos detailing what he called the "success" of controversial interrogation techniques be revealed.

...This is a gamble, because Obama probably won't release the classified information gleaned from the interrogations — because he won't want to validate them or torture in general.

I.e., Obama needs to politicize the intelligence because the truth would be inconvenient.  We agree.

But by pushing for the release of these memos, Cheney may just be inadvertently joining the bandwagon pushing for an investigation into the interrogations and the complicated legal process by which they were allowed to occur. This is the other half of his gamble. By calling for transparency on this, Cheney is putting the legal colleagues he asked to twist the law in danger. The more the American public learns and thinks about all of this, the more it's going to ask for someone's head — and Obama's already protecting the CIA, who were merely acting out what they were told was permissible. Administration officials say that the Bush legal team isn't out of their sights, though. Sanction, disbarment, and prosecution aren't off the table.

Prosecution is not off the table?  Neither is acquittal.  Neither are awkward dispositions of the House and Senate Democrats who were briefed on these procedures in 2002 and 2003 and finally realized in 2007 that they were outraged.

Oh, well - I am guessing that convictions are a foregone conclusion in Rovzar's world, since he doesn't know anyone who voted for Bush or McCain.

MORE:  Philip Zelikow, 9/11 Commission chair and adviser to Condi Rice, has a thoughtful dissent from the Bush/Cheney position.

Comments

[Enlightened]

Man what is in the water today? Robert Kennedy called Bambi an "indentured servant" to the coal industry?

That's just gonna fly right under the radar too, but Cheney was utterly vilified today for nothing.

Sincerely I detest this administration and everyone connected to it, meaning the MSM et al.

[Extraneus]

I wouldn't be surprised if our foreign enemies leave us alone for a while. They know we're doing more to ourselves than they could hope for right now.

[JM Hanes]

Extraneus:

Thanks, I needed that! What I love is that he's wearing his dress shoes and looks like he's sporting prissy white gloves. No cowboy rawhide here! In fact, from his metrosexual stance, I'd say he's mostly worried about chopping off a toe. If only we could get him to drop in on Pofarmer for a photo op!

I see it's an AP photo, but if we do something "transformative" to it, I think that satisfies the fair use protocol.

[bad]

My gardening gloves sure aren't that pristine.

That stance looks pretty good for a camp out IYKWIMAITYD.

[Captain Hate]

Yes Verner, but only her gyno can tell...

bad, I'm completely envious of this line.

[jean]

My opinion for what it's worth(0) Cheney is still mad over the manipulation of the Libby affair ,angry Bush didn't fight back.This time Cheney isn't going to mess around he is going straight for the jugular.I hope his teeth dig in deep

[Captain Hate]

I see it's an AP photo, but if we do something "transformative" to it, I think that satisfies the fair use protocol.

I'm counting on the AoS photochoppers to be very creative.

[Extraneus]

Yeah, and the position didn't too unfamiliar, either, although I'm not sure he has much background planting trees.

[Captain Hate]

Robert Kennedy called Bambi an "indentured servant" to the coal industry?

This one didn't "win" the dumbest Kennedy contest, did he?

[matt]

i just e mailed several friends with the photo. My comment was 'man can't handle a pick".

Whether it's because he's worried about getting his shoes dirty or the gloves or the stance, it just shows a punk trying to do a man's job. For someone so sensitive to his image, I have to laugh all the harder.

Bear Down, man! Get your back into it!

[jean]

There is a picture of our first lady gardening in high heels and a very trendy outfit.I found that one amusing

[Sue]

Sue, can I have a pony?

Posted by: bad | April 21, 2009 at 06:22 PM

You, my dear, can have anything your heart desires. Just as soon as I collect my $100 million.

[bad]

Even Cheney?

[kate]

The left does like to project. Doubt the American people are up in arms about harsh interrogation tactics used against three senior terrorist planners. The left is, of course, and their cheerleaders in the media, but if conservatives and Republicans presented the other side of the argument, the American people would tend to agree with them.

What does concern me is how the left is able to frame this topic. AP references "torture memos" surely that is not their official title. Nice cheerleading there, Jennifer Loven. How would she like it if we called her a Democratic hack instead of an AP reporter.

This effort to prosecute these officials needs to be dealt with head on and effectively. So far I see no effort to defend these officials. Where are the Repubicans outside of Cheney?

Imagine the alternative, if we were hit again after 9/11 and officials had not researched how to get actionable intel from terrorist operatives, there would have been hell to pay.

Why can't conservatives fight back.

[Sue]

Cheney can't be bought, dear. Nice try!

[Mark_0454]

My most cherished memory of RFK, Jr. is him spouting off on TV about the prosperity of Iceland after they gave up coal and oil and changed to clean geothermal power. They were the most prosperous country in Europe thanks to environmentalism. Almost as bad as his evaluation of vaccines. The man has no brains.

[bad]

Sue, I was hoping you would DONATE him to me in the spirit of volunteerism. I've heard it's like totally in....

[Sue]

bad,

Yeah, right. I'm a neocon right wing extremist and you thought I'd volunteer him?

[bad]

Hope springs eternal

[clarice]

Bad is particularly--ahem--bad today.

Should we have a special flag we hang out when there's a troll onboard ?

[Topsecretk9]

Jake Tapper reports National Archives confirms Cheney made the request!

Don't go yet, Don! Stay until Mitchell and Greg whats his name show embarassment!

HAHAHAHAHAH

[Topsecretk9]

Don got so severely pwnaged. What a looooooser.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

I thought I posted this and if it is a duplicate I apologize.

The CIA confirms:

CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles

And when you are done reading the above, check out Andy McCarthy's latest.

[centralcal]

Now, wait a minute Miss Bad! I have patiently waited, SECOND in line, for Sue to tire of her infatuation with Cheney and here you are pushing to the front of the line.

I blame Bush. Scratch that. I blame Clarice! She is waiting for Mark S. to tire of his Jane fixation (or vice versa). She is probably nudging you along.

Well, I won't stand for it! I do not live in Texas like our Sue, but I was born there, and we Texas gals are nothing if not obstinate and determined.

[centralcal]

On a more serious note, I have been slightly concerned over Cheney's raspy breathing during his 2 Hannity interviews.

Then, I thought hhhhhmmmmm - maybe Fox affixed his mic so that he sounds like Darth Vader when he speaks just to drive the lefty loons bonkers.

Obviously, I hope that is it.

[bad]

FINE!!

I'll move on to Dick Morris.....

[PD]

Turner, I'm not even going to click your crappy link.

You claim that Cheney's a liar. Cecil provides the information that verifies Cheney's claim, and you're not interested.

[centralcal]

OMG! You are too funny bad!!!

[PD]

No way he was doing this in March.

Why not? The interrogation debate is not a new one, and if Cheney's writing a book, it's quite likely that he'd be intending to address his side of the debate.

But your narrative is that Cheney is a liar, and that narrative must be adhered to no matter how flimsy the pretext for clinging to it.

[Sue]

C-cal,

My husband and I just made that comment to each other about Cheney's breathing. It worries me.

[Jane]

On a more serious note, I have been slightly concerned over Cheney's raspy breathing during his 2 Hannity interviews.

Me too. He sounded like he was ready to keel over. I'm onto the magnificent bastard at this point who is at the moment knocking it out of the park.

[Ann]

CC, LOL

And I can't wait to see the photo shop with white gloves, pic and bicycle helmet.

I love my JOM peeps!

Oh, and Rove is terrific. ♥

[bad]

Media covers for Obama's misspelling in a letter to a fan.

O used "advise" when he should have used "advice."

I'm sure they would have done the same for Bush.

ha ha ha ha ha hha ha ha

LUN

[clarice]

Or Quayle,bad.

[centralcal]

What a group of real men we once had in the White House. Now we have . . . oh, Lord, I can't even describe what we have now.

I think the pictures will live in infamy, vis-a-vis the history books. So far there have been pictures (just 100 days!!!) that defy words.

[PD]

"The Obama administration denied Tuesday that former Vice President Dick Cheney had directly asked the CIA ..."

Pretty obvious the Obama administration is beng deceitful. So are they simply "inaccurate" or are they dishonest?

I think we know. This clever use of wording is EXACTLY like the way that Obama issued a statement after McCain picked Our Sarah. He downplayed her experience by pointing out that she'd been a small-town mayor -- conveniently ignoring the fact that she's a sitting governor.

[clarice]

Shall we take bets to see when the next time Andrea will fall for this Administration's b.s. will be?

You can get away with this crapola only so long before people don't want to put up with further embarrassment.
Has Andrea no brains whatsoever? How could she have imagined for two seconds that Cheney would be lying about such a thing?

[PD]

Whether it's because he's worried about getting his shoes dirty or the gloves or the stance, it just shows a punk trying to do a man's job.

Yeah. Pretty obvious he's never swung a pick.

Almost like he's hunkering down to pee. Using a girl's stance.

[bad]

bad, I'm completely envious of this line.

You're an inspiration, Captain.

[JM Hanes]

Verner:

I was watching Brett Bauer too and copied the sentences which were somehow left out of the Dennis Blair memo posted on the web:

HIgh value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qa'ida organization that was attacking this country.

The leadership of the CIA repeatedly reported their activities both to Executive Branch policy makers and to members of Congress, and received permission to continue to use the techniques

Even in 2009 there are organizations plotting to kill Americans using terror tactics, and although the memories of 9/11 are becoming more distant, we in the intelligence service must stop them.

I also loved Bill Kristol's reaction to this bit from Obama's little pep talk at the CIA:

Don't be discouraged by what's happened in the last few weeks. We may have potentially made some mistakes. That's how we learn.

Kristol observed, "We have a President engaging in baby talk."

Then there was the clip of Rahm Emanuel who has clearly been hitting the tanning bed! It was like watching George Hamilton's evil twin.

[bad]

"Then there was the clip of Rahm Emanuel who has clearly been hitting the tanning bed! It was like watching George Hamilton's evil twin."

See ladies, there are worse things than Dick Morris.

[Sue]

See ladies, there are worse things than Dick Morris.

Posted by: bad | April 21, 2009 at 10:07 PM

Yes, but is there worse things than Bob Beckel? I don't think so!

[bad]

Woah, Sue, The visuals are killing me. lol

[verner]

Bless You JH. I have been looking all over for them

I can not believe this is not getting more attention--both for what those sentences support, and why they were left out.

He was supporting exactly what Hayden said in the WSJ, and backs up Cheney's claims.

If we had a decent press, this would be front page news tomorrow.

[MayBee]

Maybee, does your husband know about Tapper?

My husband knows Tapper is my boyfriend, but Tapper does not know he is my boyfriend.

[bad]

I HATE when that happens....

[clarice]

http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2009/04/maybe-jay-bybee-and-jamie-garelick.html>Try Gorelick with Bybee if you want to be consistent

[centralcal]

damn it, bad. You are causing me to choke (enhaling my nightly Manhattan) with your humor tonight.

Having to choose which is worse - Dick Morris or Rahm Emanuel . . . okay, it would be Rahm, but only by a hair.

[DrJ]

That would be winning by a toe, CC.

[centralcal]

ha ha, DrJ. Hello, by the way.

[Ann]

Mark Levine was screaming on the radio today about Gorelick. He has promised to defend any of the lawyers FREE.

====================
bad, you are tooooooo funny!

I can't go anywhere near the thoughts of Morris or Emanuel. YUKE. I keep picturing Emanuel in tights and Morris in a bath robe. :)

[DrJ]

CC, I've been intending to schedule a JOM get-together at a winery near Placerville once the weather settled down. It seems to be doing so. Interested?

[JM Hanes]

This bit from Sara's CNS Link seems apropos:

The Central Intelligence Agency told CNSNews.com today that it stands by the assertion made in a May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that the use of “enhanced techniques” of interrogation on al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM) -- including the use of waterboarding -- caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles.

Before he was waterboarded, when KSM was asked about planned attacks on the United States, he ominously told his CIA interrogators, “Soon, you will know.”

According to the previously classified May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that was released by President Barack Obama last week, the thwarted attack -- which KSM called the “Second Wave”-- planned “ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles.”

Sounds like there was actually some confirmation of efficacy even in the memos that Team Obama released. It also sure looks like the CIA was keeping the DoJ informed too, and if DoJ was tracking info, wouldn't that perhaps even qualify as oversight? I love the sequence: the Prez stops by on Monday, and on Tuesday, the CIA confirms that the interrogations elicited critical national security info, in strictly controlled circumstances.

I'm sure the CIA folks were thrilled by the reassuraning start here, but Rahm really needs to do something about that tin implanted in Obama's ears:

"We will protect your identities and your security as you vigorously pursue your missions," Obama said.
Obama has given CIA officers immunity from prosecution and free lawyers if they get sued over torture allegations. He acknowledged CIA brass has "expressed understandable anxiety" over the memos' release.

If that makes their job harder spying and stopping terror plots, "that's okay," he said. "We're on the better side of history."

Because we don't need you on that wall, we need you Standing on the Right Side of History.

[Sue]

If you didn't read Sara's link to Andy McCarthy, you really should. He was and is so wrong about Fitzgerald, but he is spot on in his analysis of the enhanced interrogation.

[JM Hanes]

Ann:
"I can't go anywhere near the thoughts of Morris or Emanuel."

But wait, Si se puede!

"I keep picturing Emanuel in tights and Morris in a bath robe."

Eeew. Just couldn't resist the haberdashery, could you?

[JM Hanes]

Sue:

I think there was a personal angle to the Fitzgerald thing, and McCarthy just couldn't help giving him the very substantial benefit of the doubt. It's hard not to think he was closing in on willfully blind though, when you know how penetrating he can actually be.

[Rick Ballard]

"Should we have a special flag we hang out when there's a troll onboard ?"

Dunno if that's necessary when the troll itself is dancing in the breeze from the yardarm. I'm at a loss as to appropriate similes to use in describing just how dumb Don was. I don't want to insult rocks, hammers and marbles.

[clarice]

Heh--well, too bad he didn't take up Sue's $100 million dollar bet..We could all be packing for a new life on St Jane's right now..

[clarice]

I'm sure the denizens of L.A. will be happy to know that whatever happens to them on Obama's watch now they are on the "right side of history".

[Ann]

JMH,

No puedo servirme yo mismo :) LOL

[JM Hanes]

You know, every time I think about that last sentence, the more astonishing -- and emblematic -- I think it is. Stopping terrorists comes in second to some abstract idea about the right side of history? And this is the President talking? I'd like to hear Jake Tapper asking Gibbs about that. Just for the hell of it, of course.

[MayBee]

I'm sitting just outside of LA tonight, quite happy that the city made it to this side of history.

JMH- the other dismaying platitude Gibbs and Obama employed this week was that we were "less safe" because we were using those interrogation methods.

[JM Hanes]

They just make shit up, and as long as Obama keeps going on the tube saying everything is hunky dorey, it works. That's what that $100 million is all about. Everybody who is paying attention knows it's ridiculous, but it's all the basis Obama needs to speechify about how he's cut this, and cut that, and cut expenses and programs across the board yada, yada, yada. The White House Press corps can badger Gibbs about it from now till kingdom come, but they'll never get close enough to ask Obama about it in what passes for a prime time press conference.

[PD]

I'd like to hear Jake Tapper asking Gibbs about that.

But if he got him to talk, that'd be torture.

No, wait. Maybe not. Not if the talking has to contain intelligence.

[PD]

the other dismaying platitude Gibbs and Obama employed this week was that we were "less safe" because we were using those interrogation methods.

Almost as dismaying is that when they say this, I have not yet noticed one journalist put to them the question, "WHY are we less safe?" And for an optional followup, "Do you have an example of why this is so?"

[daddy]

Concerning the Dick Cheney/Sean Hannity Interview.

It was commented upon on Chris Matthew's "Hardball" today by David Corn. Corn dismissed FOX news as you might expect, and then told Journalist Chris Matthews that Hannity interviewing Dick Cheney was like Igor interviewing Dr Frankenstein. Matthews yucked up at that one, had Corn repeat it, repeated it himself, and then asked Corn if he had any other good ones.

Professional Journalism at its finest.

[Jane]

Heh--well, too bad he didn't take up Sue's $100 million dollar bet..We could all be packing for a new life on St Jane's right now..

I am so ready to go...

[PD]

Perhaps Matthews and Corn were trying to invite comparison of themselves with another famous duo: Beavis and Butthead.