Torture Trials - Bring It On!

Obama cracks open the door for torture trials, or Congressional hearings, or (his favored choice if he has to choose) some sort of non-partisan truth commission.

Loose the hounds!  This will be pandemonium we can believe in - as I noted, since the left wants investigations and the right wants more torture memos, it is a good bet that we will get more of something on this topic.

Chris Rovzar at NY Magazine makes a similar point with admirable, albeit amusing, confidence:

Former vice-president Dick Cheney took a gamble yesterday when he told Sean Hannity on Fox News that he'd requested that certain CIA memos detailing what he called the "success" of controversial interrogation techniques be revealed.

...This is a gamble, because Obama probably won't release the classified information gleaned from the interrogations — because he won't want to validate them or torture in general.

I.e., Obama needs to politicize the intelligence because the truth would be inconvenient.  We agree.

But by pushing for the release of these memos, Cheney may just be inadvertently joining the bandwagon pushing for an investigation into the interrogations and the complicated legal process by which they were allowed to occur. This is the other half of his gamble. By calling for transparency on this, Cheney is putting the legal colleagues he asked to twist the law in danger. The more the American public learns and thinks about all of this, the more it's going to ask for someone's head — and Obama's already protecting the CIA, who were merely acting out what they were told was permissible. Administration officials say that the Bush legal team isn't out of their sights, though. Sanction, disbarment, and prosecution aren't off the table.

Prosecution is not off the table?  Neither is acquittal.  Neither are awkward dispositions of the House and Senate Democrats who were briefed on these procedures in 2002 and 2003 and finally realized in 2007 that they were outraged.

Oh, well - I am guessing that convictions are a foregone conclusion in Rovzar's world, since he doesn't know anyone who voted for Bush or McCain.

MORE:  Philip Zelikow, 9/11 Commission chair and adviser to Condi Rice, has a thoughtful dissent from the Bush/Cheney position.

Comments

[hit and run]

Enlightened:
Hello

HEY! How's the job situation? I've been thinking about you...

[verner]

Read the politico article.

Andrea is reporting nothingburger for the consumption of her teeney tiny MSNBC left wing radical audience who will jump at anything Cheney.

[Enlightened]

Anyway - the gist of them are that Don is an idiot, waterboarding doesn't even clean the smelly BO off these murderers, much less torture them.

Don - nice to see how swiftly you changed from "Just a BS excuse since Cheney was caught lying" to:

"Glad to see you'll concede he might be lying"

Cuz your scared shitless of Clarice.

[sbw]

"The Obama administration denied Tuesday that former Vice President Dick Cheney had directly asked the CIA"

I would not want to associate with people who use words to deceive. How about you, Don?

[Enlightened]

Hi Hit - Still have the job, 6 more months might tell a different tale! So I got that going on...

How goes it with you?

[Cecil Turner]

Glad to see you'll concede he might be lying.

Glad to see the left's standard of proof (and civility) hasn't changed, Donny. Get back to us when you have actual, you know, evidence. Oh yeah, Obama is a liar!! (Ah, except that happens to be true . . . too boring.)

[glenda]

Isn't it great seeing the left panic on anything Cheney?

And, Don---no one here doubts Clarice, we know her bona fides--just what are yours?

verner:
ughhh.....can you imagine anyone "wanting" to play with Andrea M? anyone at MSNBC? one-note mental midgets of propaganda!

[sbw]

Don: And if there is no proof that Cheney ever made such a request, you will never post here again.

Actually, I don't mind if Clarice is wrong and posts here again. She at least admits to the possibility she might be wrong.

You, Don, on the other hand, can never be wrong. It's a leftist thing. Parse away, my boy. I will never admire what you stand for, or you for supporting it.

[hit and run]

Enlightened:
How goes it with you?

Still enjoying involuntary retirement...emphasis on the enjoying.

[Enlightened]

Uh Oh - I said "Washing the smelly BO off of them....

Don - Please report me to the Torture Talker Minister of Propaganda - I did not mean to use The Messiah's name in vain. BO simply referred to Body Odor but I know that once a libbie starts parsing, anything goes.

[Sue]

LOL. Don, or his twin, is on Hannity making the same argument Don is.

[Don]

Right now I have all the evidence I myself need. Cheney went "no comment" when asked how he made his "formal request."

I admit that's not enough to win my bet with Clarice, but we'll just have to wait.

[matt]

it seems our leftist friends love to argue about angels on pinheads rather that the substance of the issue. Sophistry at its finest.

[clarice]

Don"No way he was doing this in March"

Why not? He's writing a book. The torture theme has been one of the leit motifs of his opponents and the evidence that the enhanced interrogations worked has been buried..you know all the folderol about how "torture never works". If you were he and writing, wouldn't you want to include what you saw in the classified memos that support your claims? I would.

[Enlightened]

I was enjoying the weekend voluntarily, and ended up on my arse involuntarily...I stumbled pretty badly walking the dog with the hubby and am nursing my booboos. (Don - booboo does not parse into Barack Obama One, Barack Obama Only)

My right boob took a beating and is getting blacker more bruised and is quickly turning into a shade of night.

I think I kept the subliminal racist references to a minimum - Don can check next time he's parsing -gas. ;o]

[Sue]

Didn't Axelrod say that Obama had spent 4 weeks deciding whether or not to release the memos? And talked to current and former intelligence people etc. in order to make the decision? What are the odds that none of them let Cheney/Bush know what Obama was contemplating doing? Slim to none. Cheney knew before you did Don that Obama was releasing those memos. I'll bet you $100 million dollars on that.

[clarice]

Here's a story from January of this year indicating he's writing a book and intends to "settle scores" in it:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/01/dick-cheney.html

Of course he'd want in it proof that the carefully thought through interrogations were successful--in fact if one accepts the notion that "torture" doesn't work and we know these techniques did work (saved L.A. in one account today) than he can proudly claim that he found a way to get critical info from detainees without resort to what any sentient person (i.e. not Sully) would call torture.

[Sue]

And 4 weeks ago was late March. Funny that.

[matt]

hook them up to a blood pressure meter and then start reading out names and see how they react...sort of like mentioning Obama to conservative....

[Sue]

Oh Don, you are so going down...down...down...if only you really had $100 million dollars, we could all go on that cruise to our island.

[Don]

Hey-how about he just release the proof he used to repeatedly claim that Atta met Saddam's guys in Prague.

Meanwhile, still awaiting any confirmation from the National Archives.

[Rob Crawford]

Right now I have all the evidence I myself need.

I'm sure you do.

[Sue]

Hey-how about he just release the proof he used to repeatedly claim that Atta met Saddam's guys in Prague.

Because that isn't the bet, Don.

[glenda]

I guess Don has his $100 million lined up from Obama and those cuts he ordered "his"
departments to make! That really huge amount. But $17 billion in earmarks was a miniscule amount of the budget? SLAP!#*&!
Can I hear an AMEN?!

[clarice]

In fact if you read Edward Jay Epstein the ONLY contrary evidence to the Czech claim that Atta met Saddam's intel agent in Prague--something entirely possible and likely and a report accompanied by an apparently authentic photo of the two of them together was--get this--an FBI report that Atta's cell phone in Fla had been used on the day of the meeting. Do YOU think it impossible that his roommate or someone else used it? Would you consider that countervailing proof of a far stronger nature? I wouldn't.

The problem is I think that the people Cheney and Bush had to rely on for intelligence weren't very intelligent or able.

Tenet himself danced a two step on this issue after 9/11 and the matter remains unresolved to anyone with a brain and time to review the credible evidence...like Epstein.

[Enlightened]

Sue- Of course Cheney requested memos to settle some scores - and you know which ones he asked for. He requested CIA memos regarding the Plame fiasco. Prior to Bambi releasing these "torture" memos, Cheney was pretty much running under the radar, and his most bitter "score" is with the CIA and Libby/Plame.

So the CIA has some memo's that might help Cheney on that "score".

Perfect time for a distraction, back to the "Cheney is a war criminal" meme and the arbitrary release of select memos.

Isn't that from their Alinksy textbook?

[Sue]

Enlightened,

They won't release them. Hide and watch.

[PeterUK]

"Hey-how about he just release the proof he used to repeatedly claim that Atta met Saddam's guys in Prague."

We are back to the Meyer Lansky - Lucky Luciano scenario. No proof,because you were never intended to find proof.
These liberals expect department meetings and minutes to be taken.

[Enlightened]

Sue - You are right. The CIA will not release the memos, even though Hayden in Feb 2008 admitted that the technique's garnered about 25% of intel just from KSM and Zubaydah on Al Queda. But some weenie-ass intelligence officials read the reports and challenged the "useful" information. So Cheney knows the memos are out there. The CIA knows they are. The intelligence committee knows. What are they so frikkin scared of? Hmmm.

[Carolynp]

Don, I suggest that in order to remain true to what you claim you agree with, you should send a letter to Obama demanding the release of the information. That way we will all KNOW what an evil guy Cheney is. If you're correct, that is. Send the letter now. Go.

[Jane]

If you have Obamas cell phone, send me the number and I'll call him directly to bitch about it.

Bitch about it here Don. It's happening today not six years ago. So tell us what you think of President Obama murdering innocent people in Pakistan. Let him have it.

[Jane]

Enlightened,

I'm so sorry to hear about your fall.

[clarice]

Yes, PUK, the plotters worked using classic espionage techniques like false flag operations and the dimwits insist upon board meeting minutes..and reject reliable and credible evidence like that about Prague on the slimmest of reeds.

[bad]

Sorry about your owies, Enlightened. I'm glad you weren't more seriously injured. The job news is good!! Hang in there, you stay in my prayers.

[MayBee]

Jake Tapper reports National Archives confirms Cheney made the request!

Don't go yet, Don! Stay until Mitchell and Greg whats his name show embarassment!

[Enlightened]

Hmmm...and now Harman is in some hot water, as is Feinstein......both of whom allegedly approved the torture.........and what to say of Madame Speaker....those memos could be pretty touchy stuff...

I know - the CIA can barter! Give Cheney the Plame memos, and let Pelosi, Harman, Rockefeller et al get a pass on torture...

Ouch - that must hurt a lefties head.

[Enlightened]

Tks Bad!

I'm still waiting for the economy to get better so my job will get better and I can earn back some 401K in time to pay off my new patriotic tax.

The booboo's do better with some Vodka martinis.....at least so far ;o]

[Sue]

Mwahahaha...I want my $100 million, Don.

[gus]

Obama is too stupid for his own good. He believes he can lie and bullshit his way through 4 years. He can't. Obama and his band of morons seem to think everything that went before him, is null and void.
Poor Opie, he's going to have to find out the hard way. He's going to be disgraced and the laughing stock of ALL of America before the "Tragical History Tour" ends in Nov. 2011.
Obama is a fuck up,

[Enlightened]

Tks Jane! I'm having a very irritating year that is for sure! It started right around Jan 20.....like a rash that just festers....

[Don]

I'll go check that out Maybee. If it's true you'll never see me again! But I'll be back to admit it.

Meanwhile check this out. It's hilarious:

Vice President Cheney's office has refused to comply with an executive order governing the handling of classified information for the past four years and recently tried to abolish the office that sought to enforce those rules, according to documents released by a congressional committee yesterday.

Since 2003, the vice president's staff has not cooperated with an office at the National Archives and Records Administration charged with making sure the executive branch protects classified information. Cheney aides have not filed reports on their possession of classified data and at one point blocked an inspection of their office. After the Archives office pressed the matter, the documents say, Cheney's staff this year proposed eliminating it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/21/AR2007062102309.html

[clarice]

MayBee--this deserves to be in BOLD

Jake Tapper reports National Archives confirms Cheney made the request!

Don't go yet, Don! Stay until Mitchell and Greg whats his name show embarassment!

Goodbye , Don. Adios companero..
PUK and I are starting an online poker game and we'll send you an invite as soon as it's operation.

[Don]

Please post a link. First.

[verner]

You should have listened DON

Now pay up

Cheney=rope a dope with Andrea.

Now watch the goal posts change!!!!

[centralcal]

Hey, Enlightened, sorry to hear you took a nasty spill.

Sounds like you found some great treatment - ice cold Martini's resting gently against one's bruised chest.

Over at proteinwisdom in one of the comment threads they are making fun of our "Don." He is a joke in more places than one. Snort! Gotta love it.

[Sue]

Goodbye , Don. Adios companero..

Not before I get my $100 million...

[Don]

Look I'll admit if Clarice won. But I'm not seeing anything.

Link it-don't think it.

Btw-if I do have to leave forever:

Verner-you are a moron.

[Enlightened]

Buh bye Don- I dearly hope the door hits you hard in the ass on your way out.

I know you think you can come back under a new sock puppet - go for it.

You owe Sue 100 MILLION Dollars douchetoy.

Cheney did it EXACTLY the way he was supposed to - and there are NAMES to back it up - not sources close to the investigation.

Good Riddance.

[Captain Hate]

the ONLY contrary evidence to the Czech claim that Atta met Saddam's intel agent in Prague

This is a no-brainer; the Czechs would never hire some loser fop like Joe Plame.

[clarice]

Give the boy his link. please.

[Don]

Still waiting for a link.

Endarkened, you too are a moron.

[Enlightened]

Link for the 100 MILLION LOSER:

http://twitter.com/jaketapper

[Sue]

Apparently it was on World News Tonight. Nothing at his site that I can find. But MayBee wouldn't lie, or confuse the story, like I would, so I want my $100 million now!

[Don]

Clarice-give me a link my sweet before I disappear into cyberspace evermore.

Actually, I still do not believe it.

Show me the link!

[Jane]

Gee and Don was about to tell us all how President Obama should be indicted for murder.

I feel cheated.

[verner]

How many troll heads do we have on the pikes today?

[Enlightened]

Bush-era State Dept official Phil Zelikow sez WH tossed his memo disputing DOJ memos authorizing harsh interr http://tinyurl.com/zelikow421

10 minutes ago from web VP Cheney made the request on March 31, ABC News' Luis Martinez reports

17 minutes ago from web VP Cheney's request to declassify memos went first to the National Archives, a spokesperson for the NA confirms. Now request goes to CIA.

Can you READ Don?

[MayBee]

jaketapperVP Cheney made the request on March 31, ABC News' Luis Martinez reports23 minutes ago from web

That's the tweet.

[Sue]

Gosh, about 4 weeks ago. Wonder who whispered in Cheney's ear what Obama was going to do?

[bad]

Maybee, does your husband know about Tapper?

[Don]

Nope-tapper's twitter is weak tea. Not good enough Endarkened. Looks promising for Clarice.

Clarice and my bet is very specific.

Maybe this will encourage you to link me the real thing

Endarkened, you are a sweaty, bucktoothed moron with no sense of style.

[clarice]

Cheney is a grown up not like Obama--and he never never would have said he made the request if he had not. Once again the willingness of a lefty to believe unsubstantiated characterizations about Bush and Cheney--two exceedingly honorable men in a city full of immature liars --made Don into a fool. I was merely an instructional device.

[verner]

I don't know why he won't just leave. i gave him a Politico link hours ago that said the same thing.

[centralcal]

"Gosh, about 4 weeks ago. Wonder who whispered in Cheney's ear what Obama was going to do?"

Michael Hayden?

[Don]

actually Politico is still waiting from confirmation from the Archives, verner.

[Enlightened]

Bwaahahahhahahahhwahhhehhhhehheeeeeee

Boob in a sling, martini in hand and Don owing Sue $100Mil. Priceless.

[boris]

"The Obama administration denied Tuesday that former Vice President Dick Cheney had directly asked the CIA ..."

Pretty obvious the Obama administration is beng deceitful. So are they simply "inaccurate" or are they dishonest?

[Enlightened]

National Archives spokesperson Susan Cooper confirms that Cheney did submit a request for unspecified documents on March 31st. Cooper said that the National Archives had asked the relevant agency — she wouldn’t say which one, but there’s little reason to doubt that it’s the CIA — for the relevant documents this morning.

Cooper confirmed that the docs Cheney asked for were in fact classified. Keep in mind we have no way of knowing what Cheney actually asked for or whether they really say what Cheney claims. It’s now up to the CIA to make the determination whether to declassify the docs Cheney wants. So this could get very, very interesting in various ways.

Per Greg Sargent (I'm not linking to his carp, but go over there Don - the talking points are changing AS WE SPEAK!)- Isn't he one of your secret lovers along with Josh Marshall who also is running with the confirmed lede?

Go Away Don - you lost.

[Don]

yep. Sargent confirms that Cheney asked for something! We don't know what, and I still don't believe it, but for now I will admit that Clarice's position looks better than me.

I will leave and shall only return if the story develops further.

Adios!

[PDindetroit]

There is not enough waterboarding to go around here that will wash Don off the lot of you!

Man, I leave for a while and come back to find you feeding trolls. Tell the teenager to go back to his hole and be done with it.

Clarice - where are your pistolas and speed-loaders when I need them?

[Enlightened]

Since Don is gone, let me just point out that I don't think he can read. He certainly can't comprehend.

Greg Sargent said Cheney filed for Classified Documents from an Agency - probably the CIA on March 31.

For a leftie not to believe one of their gods is really remarkable.

Now. Why didn't or hasn't the NA requested the docs from the CIA? If they did, why did Bambi's team lie about it?

[PDinDetroit]

Enlightened - the NA did request from the CIA this morning - gov't takes a while to catch up you know...

[Enlightened]

Ok I'm outta here if the pistolas are about....

[Enlightened]

So TECHNICALLY Bambi can get away with saying "DICK CHENEY" did not request, but "NA" did?

Boy oh boy. Do they really think that will fly?

[clarice]

Clarice - where are your pistolas and speed-loaders when I need them?
Every now and then I like to let a troll prance about the yardarm before we keel haul him just to stay in practice.

[bad]

Sue, can I have a pony?

[verner]

Hey, management of transparency....

I'm gonna remember that one.

[verner]

1,800 criminal acts for the eco-terrorist scum

0 criminal acts for disgruntaled Army vets.

Janet Napolitano sucks.

[verner]

Hey, has Andrea Mitchell retracted yet?

[bad]

Yes Verner, but only her gyno can tell...

[verner]

Brit Baier is reading redacted sentences of Dennis Blair's letter.

Even BO's people back up Hayden's claims!

[Enlightened]

Well - More good news - The "Somali Teenager" is really an 18 year-old.

Dammit. I really wanted a thieving, kidnapping thug to be of the teenager sort.

At least our media does. Since they haven't quite moved off the 16 YO teenager cycle.

[Cecil Turner]

Looks like Mitchell caved as well:

From NBC's Andrea Mitchell
The Cheney transition office says that the former VP made the request to the National Archives to declassify the CIA documents on March 31st, and the Archives confirmed on April 8th that they had forwarded the request to the relevant agencies. The Archives are the agency that former VPs contact for such matters.

[clarice]

I know our trolls are stupid. How stupid is Andrea? Did she seriously imagine for two minutes that Cheney was just make shit like that up?

Maybe she lost her contacts and confused him with Biden.

[Extraneus]

Sideshow aside, the truth commission and fantasy prosecution would surely want to focus on someone special, but you can bet they'll be on the lookout to avoid a Colonel North getting airtime in the dock this time. It's Cheney who they really want, though, isn't it? Talk about the ultimate TV.

[JM Hanes]

PD:

Why bother with pistolas when you can get a troll to leave forever and get $100 million for pushing him out the door?

[Enlightened]

Hey! Wait JOM!

Mitchell says the NA confirmed April 8th that they forwarded Cheney's request to the releveant agencies?

How come that Cooper gal at NA said today they requested docs from "the relevant agency" this morning?

Whose gotta Memo?

[bad]

Did she seriously imagine for two minutes that Cheney was just make shit like that up?

Well... Biden does...

[centralcal]

It has been slow at work and I have had so much fun watching you folks chase that little rodent Don all around the JOM house.

And then, whoa - Clarice lowers the boom right on his backside and away he scampered.

Too much fun!

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Boris at 4:16:

"The Obama administration denied Tuesday that former Vice President Dick Cheney had directly asked the CIA ..."

A senior U.S. intelligence offical e-mailed: "The Agency has received, no such request from the former Vice President.”

A source familiar with the request said the former vice president made the request to the National Archives,

The CIA declined to comment on Cheney's request.

From the above recitation, it appears to me that Zero's administration has taken lessons from Clinton's deposition techniques; tell (only) the (literal) truth, nothing but the (literal) truth, but not the whole truth.

To BHO's flacks, technical Innuendo and political impressions to the unwashed are more important than the truth. They have the technique down to a science.

[Enlightened]

And another thing....I hope that when Cheney said he "has some scores to settle" - one of those will be with Mr. CIA Ambassador Joe Wilson. Gawdalmighty would I love that.

[JM Hanes]

Timeline makes sense to me. Cheney wants the classified material for his book, puts in a request. Obama & Axelrod spend 3 weeks making all those agonizing calculations, and think hey, we can can release the stuff that makes BushCo look bad, shore up the base and claim this is the new transparency. What's not to like? Cheney's not about to take that lying down, and pushes back publicly on national t.v. TeamObama desperately tries to dirty him up. Memo goes out to journoList, et voila: Cheney LIED about asking the CIA (directly)!

[matt]

look, dealing with the Left is like dealing with hobo Jesuits caught up in the argument of how many angels fit on a pinhead.

Don slipped and slid along until the news came out, and then redefined the question and issue.It's sort of like trying to hold mercury in one's hand or herd cat's. They simply change the target without addressing the flaws in their original argument.

I had the same issue with a leftist columnist in Chicago yesterday. I wrote a concise defense of the tea party movement and he dismissed with an 8 word pithy statement that had absolutely no relevance.

Until we start calling bullshit on Maher and Garofalo and the rest of these windbags, and have our own houses in order we'll be faced with the same schoolyard nanny nanny response.

[Extraneus]

I'd hate for people to miss a pic of Obama supposedly planting a tree to inspire his followers to undertake national service. It's close to a Kerry bunny-suit or wind-surfer.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

It gets so tiresome, matt but we can't give up. Never surrender.

[matt]

the one person they do not want on the stand whether they realize it or not is Cheney. He is a bulldog who will have his facts down cold and will be unafraid to rip into them on national TV. You could sell tickets for those hearings at IMAX theaters all over the country.

[Extraneus]

He even had gloves on so as not to get blisters.

[Enlightened]

Hee Hee - someone needs to photoshop the bike helmet on The Messiah digging a hole....metaphorically speaking...

[centralcal]

Hey Extraneous that photo is a hoot!

Bow - ing.
Pick - ing.

Was it a short tree?

[verner]

Who else watched Fox news and Saw Bill Kristol talking about Dennis Blair's letter?

He basically confirmed Hayden and Cheney on torture.

Fox is all over prosecutions over torture. Even Mort was PO'd