We Farm Out The Krugman-Bashing (And Help Truth Get Its Boots On)

Eddy Elfenbein of Crossing Wall Street criticizes Paul Krugman's fixation on Tom DeLay:

Paul Krugman writes about Tom DeLay:

Going back to those tea parties, Mr. DeLay, a fierce opponent of the theory of evolution — he famously suggested that the teaching of evolution led to the Columbine school massacre — also foreshadowed the denunciations of evolution that have emerged at some of the parties.

These are the kinds of the things Krugman writes that are so frustrating. He’s a brilliant economist but too often drives off the reservation into dishonesty.

After reading Krugman’s account, are you led to believe that Tom DeLay said in a clear declarative sentence that Columbine was the result of the teaching of evolution? That he repeatedly said it and would say it again today if asked?

I really wonder how many people understand that saying something that’s factually correct isn’t good enough. An accurate fact can be presented in a dishonest way. I think if I said this to many political pundits, their heads would explode.

Context?  We don't need no stinkin' context!

However!  In the course of trying to establish just what Tom DeLay did or did not say, a little chestnut emerged at AlterNet, the Public Citizen, and About.com, as well as at other sites including Kevin Drum's (who emerges as the comic foil).  Here is Drum:

R.I.P. TOM DELAY....Ruth Marcus memorializes Tom DeLay in the Washington Post today and does a fine job. However, I — like many others — will always remember him best for his reaction to the Columbine shootings in 1999:

Guns have little or nothing to do with juvenile violence. The causes of youth violence are working parents who put their kids into daycare, the teaching of evolution in the schools, and working mothers who take birth control pills.

Ooops!  Turns out that Tom DeLay never actually said that, as Drum notes a bit later - the "quote" is a very simplified paraphrase of a letter DeLay read on the House floor, as explained by Mr. Elfenbein.  Here is a NY Times story covering the House debate in 1999 which does include a part of the paraphrase:

Mr. DeLay said that in a way he was pleased with the final result.

''The guns have little or nothing to do with juvenile violence,'' Mr. DeLay said, adding that he ''had a great time this week'' getting to debate cultural issues.

WE WRITE OF MISSING CONTEXT:  Here is Krugman simplifying DeLay on July 13 2004:

Mr. DeLay, who, in the debate over gun control after the Columbine shootings, insisted that juvenile violence is the result of day care, birth control and the teaching of evolution.

Really?  Just glancing at the letter Mr. DeLay read, I would say he passed along the view that juvenile violence may be due to broken homes; parents not spending time with their kids; kids in daycare; kids watching, on average, seven hours of violent, sexualized televsion per day; violent video games; kids being viewed as a burden and a failure of birth control; humans being presented in schools as glorified apes; and kids being taught "that there are no laws of morality that transcend us".

Hey, no mention of rap music?  Well, Tipper Gore could have signed up for some of these concerns, as could any earnest lib.

MY FAVORITE CITE:  My favorite instance of this bum quote comes from The Transnational Institute, "a worldwide fellowship of committed scholar-activists".

When it comes to raising money for his PACs, however, DeLay shows his mastery of the modern world. He saves his anti-modernism to explain the real causes for the school terrorism at Columbine. "Guns have little or nothing to do with juvenile violence. The causes of youth violence are working parents who put their kids into daycare, the teaching of evolution in the schools, and working mothers who take birth control pills (Stephen Pizzo, Inside Job: The Looting of America's Savings and Loans," alternet May 16, 2002). The man who has promoted himself as a champion of children took "a $100,000 check from a

Hmm.  The AlterNet cite is the one linked above; the book by Stephen Pizzo, "Inside Job", was published in 1989, covers the S&L debacle, and, I am quite confident, does not contain any of Mr. DeLay's thoughts on the 1999 Columbine shooting.

LACKS NUANCE, BUT SEEMS TO BE LEFTY-APPROVED:  Based on the notion that if a person cites multiple causes a critic can cherry-pick one or two and insist they have fairly represented the person's view, I can now reveal that Obama attributed the racial divide in America to Lyndon Johnson's Great Society, compounded by spotty garbage collection in poor neighborhoods.  Hey, this is a powerful new tool for the King.

Obama's insight was offered in his famous race speech - the one where he couldn't disavow Jeremiah Wright, not the one where he did.

WAS IT ONLY A YEAR AGO?  Last May 5, 2008 Paul Krugman not-so-famously wrote that "the worst of the financial crisis is over. That’s the good news."  He then deplored the fading prospects for meaningful reform of the financial system.  Eerily Prescient!  And don't vex me by restoring the context - I look right past his weaselly qualifiers:

Cross your fingers, knock on wood: it’s possible, though by no means certain, that the worst of the financial crisis is over.

RANDOM FUN:  At the Times website they promote some Krugman columns form the archives; their second selection is this:

Fuels on the Hill

By PAUL KRUGMAN

Why are politicians so eager to pin the blame for oil prices on speculators? Because it lets them believe that we don’t have to adapt to a world of expensive gas.

June 27, 2008 opinion Op-Ed

From the column we gain this insight:

In any case, one thing is clear: the hyperventilation over oil-market speculation is distracting us from the real issues.

Regulating futures markets more tightly isn’t a bad idea, but it won’t bring back the days of cheap oil. Nothing will. Oil prices will fluctuate in the coming years — I wouldn’t be surprised if they slip for a while as consumers drive less, switch to more fuel-efficient cars, and so on — but the long-term trend is surely up.

"The long term trend is surely up".  No doubt.  West Texas Intermediate was roughly $135 a barrel when Krugman wrote that and the long term trend persisted for another two weeks before beginning a short term swoon which took the price down to $31/bbl at Christmas; it is now about $50 /bbl.

I guess Krugman wasn't surprised since he had predicted prices might "slip a little".

Comments

[clarice]

It depends on the meaning of "long term", Tom. Gee whiz! Do I have to 'splain everything to you?

[Appalled]

TM:

Here are DeLay's precise remarks. (There's a nifty site -- thomas.gov -- that makes the Congressional Record searchable. Bloggers should use it more)

Mr. Chairman, I just want to say that the truth will make us free if we admit what the truth is. Every once in a while, I read something or hear something that blows away all that smoke that clouds a particular issue. A letter written by a Mr. Addison Dawson to the San Angelo Standard-Times is just such a statement. In fact, after I make this statement, I do not think anybody else needs to speak. We just need to vote.

The following is Mr. Dawson's letter, which Paul Harvey read on his radio show: ``For the life of me, I can't understand what could have gone wrong in Littleton, Colorado. If only the parents had kept their children away from the guns, we wouldn't have had such a tragedy. Yeah, it must have been the guns.

``It couldn't have been because half our children are being raised in broken homes. It couldn't have been because our children get to spend an average of 30 seconds in meaningful conversation with their parents each day.

``After all, we give our children quality time. It couldn't have been because we treat our children as pets and our pets as children.

``It couldn't have been because we place our children in day care centers where they learn their socialization skills among their peers under the law of the jungle, while employees who have no vested interest in the children look on and make sure that no blood is spilled.

It couldn't have been because we allow our children to watch, on average, 7 hours of television a day filled with the glorification of sex and violence that isn't even fit for adult consumption.

``It couldn't have been because we allow (or even encourage) our children to enter into virtual worlds in which, to win the game, one must kill as many opponents as possible in the most sadistic way possible.

``It couldn't have been because we have sterilized and contracepted our families down to sizes so small that the children we do have are so spoiled with material things that they come to equate the receiving of the material with love.

``It couldn't have been because our children, who historically have been seen as a blessing from God, are now being viewed as either a mistake created when contraception fails or inconveniences that parents try to raise in their spare time. It couldn't have been because we give 2-year prison sentences to teenagers who kill their newborns.

``It couldn't have been because our school systems teach the children that they are nothing but glorified apes who have evolutionized out of some primordial soup of mud.

``It couldn't have been because we teach our children that there are no laws of morality that transcend us, that everything is relative and that actions do not have consequences. What the heck, the President gets away with it.

``Nah, it must have been the guns.''

Now if you guys wonder where the Krugman gloss comes from, it seems that it is descended from the (in this case) very quick-witted Barney Frank, who immediately replies to DeLay:

So I am not familiar with everything that is in here. But after listening to the majority whip, I have to read it more closely, because I may have missed the part in which we ban the teaching of evolution.

I know we have had a lot of discussion of what was causing the problems here, but I just heard the majority whip say it was Charles Darwin's fault. It is apparently evolution. It is teaching children that they are the products of evolution that is the cause of this.

So I will have to watch more carefully for the amendments when we get the amendment of the gentleman from Texas (Mr. DELAY), the majority whip, correcting the teaching of evolution.

I have to say, as I listened to him, I have not heard such an angry denunciation of the American people since SDS used to pick at me 30 years ago. I guess there is a degree of anti-Americanism here that I had not anticipated. It is the American people's fault. They are involved in family planning. They are teaching evolution. They are doing all these things.

Plus, I guess somebody ought to arise to defend the States. The gentleman from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) said the States' juvenile justice is broken down. The gentleman from Texas (Mr. DELAY) is mad at the States. The poor States. I guess the States rights movement we should officially inter today.

What we have today is an announcement. Hey, States, you do not know to handle your local criminal business. We, the all-knowing Congress, will take care of it. So we will abolish the teaching of evolution, and we will diminish States rights, and we will solve the problem.

Hmmm...TM, I think Krugman is within the realm of "fair", here.

I have the Congressional Record debate LUN

[Danube of Thought]

Strikes me from a quick reading that former Enron advisor Krugman is actually in the realm of "typically unfair," but I don't care that much.

Phil Spector guilty of second-degree murder. When he gets to the Big House, he'll learn what a real wall of sound is.

[boris]

If Krugworm had written "he famously suggested that H O W evolution is taught may have contributed to the Columbine school massacre" ...

That could have been somewhere near the galactic region of fair.

[Brainster]

LOL, Appalled, I was reading that and thinking that obviously Krugman's claim that DeLay blamed Columbine on evolution was a ridiculous twisting of what was actually said. And you think that's fair?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Appalled, if I'm following that correctly, you're saying that Krugman's attribution of the paraphrase of the misquote of the malicious paraphrase of the quote delivered by an intermediate source as what Tom DeLay actually said, is "within the realm of 'fair'".

Golly.

And you say you're appalled.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Beyond that, Republicans have become embarrassing to watch. And it doesn’t feel right to make fun of crazy people.

Yeah, like Brad DeLong who deletes comments that threaten his self-esteem from his blog. Or Paul Krugman who took Jason Leopold seriously and ended up being ordered by his boss at the NY Times to apologize to Army Sec'y Thomas White because of it.

Or, Joe Biden, who just made up a conversation he had with George W. Bush in the Oval Office. Or, John Kerry, the Dem. presidential nominee in 2004, who lives a fantasy life in which he's Ernest Hemingway running guns in Cambodia (but not on Christmas Eve). Or, Barney Frank, who let a friend run a gay brothel from his apartment.

Or, Cynthia McKinney, Dennis Kucinich, Rod Blagojevich....

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Phil Spector guilty of second-degree murder. When he gets to the Big House, he'll learn what a real wall of sound is.

Nah, he's a rich musician. I'll bet a buck that he gets house arrest or some kind of probation.

[Captain Hate]

Phil Spector guilty of second-degree murder. When he gets to the Big House, he'll learn what a real wall of sound is.

Bwak; he's a creepy little prick, good riddance.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I guess Krugman wasn't surprised since he had predicted prices might "slip a little".

You know, if you predict that a commodity price is likely to go up, but it might also go down, you're pretty likely to be right.

[clarice]

Bravo, Patrick! Well done.

[matt]

The Manhattan Daily Shopper is losing credibility by the hour now. Read an interesting article yesterday on how the Sulzbergers have been running it into the ground by not linking up with Amazon because Barnes & Noble was a big advertiser etc.

No mention at all of alienating @ 48% of their potential readership. I'm sure that has nothing at all to do with advertising rates, increased ad space, and subscription income. Naw, it couldn't be something as simple as economics...it must be those right wing bloggers.That might be a more fruitful opursuit for Messers. Krugman and Friedman.

[sbw]

Matt, not linking to Amazon? I can get the NY Times on Amazon's Kindle for $13.99...

...but I don't want it.

[Danube of Thought]

No bail for Spector; he's already in the slams.

[PeterUK]

Surprising Spector didn't go for a plea of insanity,he has the wigs for it.

[Danube of Thought]

I assume that as we speak he's in L.A. Men's Central, which is not a place for the faint of heart. I once had the honor of interviewing Erik Menendez there, while of course he was duly shackled to his chair.

[clarice]

You did, DoT..Those boyus were really something..So was their lawyer..

You're on your toes tonight, PUK. Spector looks completely insane to me.

[Mike G]

Going back to DeLay, put me in as another one who thinks he didn't come anywhere near to saying the teaching of evolution CAUSES sociopathy (at most he's saying the teaching of evolution in a vacuum with no other ethical teaching about the worth of human beings makes sociopathy possible).

But I guess any weapon's fair in a fight with an approved bogeyman like Tom DeLay.

[Thomas Collins]

Because Krugman excels at fiction, I figure JOMers won't mind a 24 rant on this thread.

So, is this the week Renee gets Chloe to contact Jack's daughter so she'll visit Jack and convince him to let her donate cells to Jack so the medical folks can do their treatment thing and save Jack? Or is this week completely devoted to dealing with Starkwood?

[PD]

You know, if you predict that a commodity price is likely to go up, but it might also go down, you're pretty likely to be right.

Yeah, that type of predicting is a version of horoscopy.

[PD]

Or is this week completely devoted to dealing with Starkwood?

I hope not. Last week's ep was largely that, and it was a bore.

[Mister Snitch]

"He’s a brilliant economist but too often drives off the reservation into dishonesty."

Yes, I have noticed this in Krugman and some others: Skilled in one area, their ego tells them they are equally adept in other areas. Since this is not actually true, they get 'creative' and convince themselves that their, uh, creativity is actually expertise.

Such people often do fall in love with their own voices. Put two of them, with differing agendas, in the same room and hilarity results.

[Soylent Red]

That picture of Spector on Drudge makes him look like Nigel Tufnel.

I predict you will all agree or that you won't agree at all.

[Thomas Collins]

Well, PD, the promos just showed Jack's daughter speaking with him. Of course, that could be a teaser for next week.

Don't worry, West Coasters, I will now cease and desist from my 24 talk so as not to ruin the show for you.

[clarice]

It does, Soylent.

[RichatUF]

Ridiculous column especially his take on astroturfing and "right wing billionaires". Wonder if he got his talking points from JournaList and had the good offices of the Open Society Institute edit the draft.

Last but not least: it turns out that the tea parties don’t represent a spontaneous outpouring of public sentiment. They’re AstroTurf (fake grass roots) events, manufactured by the usual suspects. In particular, a key role is being played by FreedomWorks, an organization run by Richard Armey, the former House majority leader, and supported by the usual group of right-wing billionaires.

[sbw]

And I suppose my independent newspaper, advocating for tea parties, is manufactured by the usual suspects?

What chaff. Projective identification of the worst kind, they accuse others of doing what they regularly do yet will not recognize in themselves.

How anti-social!

[Jane]

I once dated one of Phil Spector's cousins.

Just once.

[Captain Hate]

I've really seen no evidence that Krugman understands the first thing about econ; I realize he probably has a higher pedigree than Bammers (academically speaking of course, although....) but when is the last time he was ever right about anything? And don't tell me about the "imminent" recession that he's been predicting for the last 5 years.

[Ignatz]

and supported by the usual group of right-wing billionaires

Would that it were so, but right wing billionaires just buy Bugattis and 150 foot yachts.
Left wing projection at its worst of course, as all of their efforts are at their heart bankrolled by the likes of Soros, Lewis, Geffen etal.

[sbw]

I recall Matt invoking G. K. Chesterton, "Modern man is staggering and losing his balance because he is being pelted with little pieces of alleged fact which are native to the newspapers; and, if they turn out not to be facts, that is still more native to the newspapers."

... if they turn out not to be facts, still more native to Krugman.

Blowhard!

[clarice]

Is there a regular NYT columnist who is not utterly full of it? Ditto the WaPo.

Of all the goor thinkers and writers in America, why are these two major papers stuck with such a pack of preening dunces?
Krauthammer is the only one of them worth reading IMO.

[tiger]

Did the article say Krugman was a "brilliant economist"? He is seriously NOT a brilliant (or any other kind of) economist. Soccialism + Keynsianism = FOOL!

[LaMonte]

So, when we actually read the transcript, we find this:
***The following is Mr. Dawson's letter, which Paul Harvey read on his radio show:...***
Mr Delay presented said letter, presumably in its entirety, as an accurate and complete attributed report -- more than can be said of Mr Frank and the others who wanted thereafter to use half-quotes and selective bites.

[Captain Hate]

I'm pretty used to ignoring anything that comes out of the pie (and God knows what else) hole of Barney's Frank. His weird speaking patterns, whether caused by poorly fitting dentures or something I prefer to not know, irritate me adequately to forgo the ignorant content which I can subsequently read if I need another blood pressure surge.

[Rick Ballard]

I don't see a great benefit in bothering to knock down Krugman's straw Habitat for Halfwits creations any more. His work is as moldy as the Chinese drywall the Peanut nailed up in the shacks which are falling apart faster than they can be replaced. He's just a leftist prize winning credentialed moron writing for a failed publisher.

The interesting aspect of the current situation is the "failed publisher". The NYT has been the epitome of a Gramscian "success" for longer than its lodestone, the Soviet Union, lasted. In point of fact, the NYT's love affair with dirty socialism preceded Antonio Gramsci's "rise" by a number of years, its first true love was the Fabian movement, with all of its attendant progressive fascism.

It's enough to make one wonder if President Obagabe isn't a last gasp rather than a sign of strength.

[sbw]

I don't see the point of Krugman-bashing. He doesn't care if he's wrong, wouldn't admit to it if he were, and the consequences of his being wrong are negligible.

Similarly for the NY Times, and leftists in general, they don't care, wouldn't admit to it, and the consequences won't be felt until some serious rust causes girders to tumble.

No one is in a position to challenge him in a place so public he can't ignore it. You can't expect sycophants on CNN, NBC, CBS, or ABC to paste the facts on the screen in front of him. Journalistic society is too corrupt.

[sbw]

I would have beat you to the comment, Rick, if I hadn't put it on the Go Big Green thread. ;-)

[narciso]

I know it's kind of a Sisyphean task as Donald Luskin, found out years ago, fisking
every column at least one of pastiche's he called a book.In answer to your question, John Tierney, doesn't do a bad job, consequently he doesn't saturate the airways
and blog posts. But most, from Krugman to Kristof to Dowd to Rich, epic fail as to any genuine insight.

[Old Lurker]

"Krauthammer is the only one of them worth reading IMO."

True that.

WSJ editorial page is often worrth reading.

WaPo & NYT... never.

[sbw]

Ya know, you cannot talk to people who choose not to listen.

Hubris.

[daddy]

Good Morning!

I love how the first thing I do when puching up Instapundit and reading

"FISH, BARREL: Fact-Checking Paul Krugman. And Kevin Drum."

is that TM is on the job.

[The Monster]

It is teaching children that they are the products of evolution that is the cause of this.

By my count, the letter quoted by DeLay listed ten to twelve causes (some of them may be two ways of wording the same thing), not a single "the cause".

This is the same technique the Left used after the G.W. Bush administration listed off many reasons why the Saddam Hussein regime could not be allowed to stand. After the invasion, they selected the item on that list that they could claim was false without being laughed at, and suddenly it was "the reason" for the invasion. Suddenly, all the other reasons disappeared in a puff of Alinsky Rule 13.

Wednesday night, or perhaps in the wee hours of Thursday morning, they'll be looking over the videos from their agents-provacateur at the Tea Parties, and they'll find the easiest thing to focus on, to the exclusion of everything else said and displayed. The consensus will coalesce, the marching orders will go out on Journolist, and it will be the only thing anyone will hear about the protests.

Because it's such a powerful card to play, I'm betting that the official meme they want to push is that racists upset with The Precedent are ready to plunge the country into a civil war. After all, he's just trying to put tax rates back to where they were under Clinton, and we didn't protest that (we were too busy impeaching him over his sexual dalliances) so the only possible reason we would be takin' it to the streets is to lynch us whatever uppity n*****s we can get our hands on!

I won't be surprised if some poor confused Reichstag-burner is found with a bunch of tea bags, an arsenal, and plans that conveniently get him on the Secret Service's radar. With 300M people in this country, there have to be a few that aren't yet institutionalized. But they certainly have a Plan B, C, and probably Z. They just have to see which they have the best video for.

[qrstuv]

Appalled, honest to God, did you read what you posted?

Any fair reading of Delay's comments sees a common thread: today's culture devalues human life. His reference to evolution was to comment that kids are taught that "we're just animals."

That's certainly a true statement, but it's a long way from teaching "... and we're also human beings and there are rules of conduct that apply."

"We're just animals" implies that nothing matters except our pleasure.

But then, as I write this, I realize that the only morality taught in school is pure progressive morality... "social justice," "environmentalism," pacifism, knee-jerk bashing of the dreaded corporations, and "You shouldn't pick McCain--your daddy's going to be in Iraq for 100 years."

***************
Men Without Chests... C.S. Lewis saw this happening in the 1940s. It is quite instructive to compare his thoughts to today's world.

[Appalled]

Charlie:

Is Krugman or Frank being especially intellectually honest? No -- they are scoring partisan points. But, then again, Krugaman is a partisan guy, and Frank is a politician. And DeLay, through the letter he reads, identifies this as one of the reason that "couldn't be" a cause of Columbine:

because our school systems teach the children that they are nothing but glorified apes who have evolutionized out of some primordial soup of mud

Yep, the DEms have extracted from DeLay's letter reading the most extreme thing he said, and tagged him with it. Jeepers, TM. It sounds just like something Rove would do, or even something the expert partisans here in the comment section would do.

So, yeah, Krugman was not unfair in his partisan charactarization of DeLay.

[sbw]

Appalled, go read the eighth level of Dante's Hell for the fraudulent and the deceivers and decide if Krugman belongs there.

And if you decide he doesn't, be sure to look around; you might be spending some time there.

[JJ]

Inkredible Krugman.

Nice takedown, TM.

[DrJ]

Krugman was not unfair in his partisan charactarization of DeLay.

Sounds like TCO without the foul language. Actually, that's unfair to TCO. He at least had a reasonable point.

[JJ]

I don't see the point of Krugman-bashing. He doesn't care if he's wrong, wouldn't admit to it if he were, and the consequences of his being wrong are negligible.

Completely disagreed with both you and RB.

It's a marketing game and the conservatives are losing because they won't market.

This is a good, factual layout of source of a twisted quote. Needs to be done again and again, over and over. It may not be used now, but it's all grist for the mill at some time.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Did the article say Krugman was a "brilliant economist"? He is seriously NOT a brilliant (or any other kind of) economist. Soccialism + Keynsianism = FOOL!

You might want to look up some of those big words.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

So, yeah, Krugman was not unfair in his partisan charactarization of DeLay.

Ah, I understand. You're using "unfair" in the "none of it was actually true but it attacked someone I don't like so I'm okay with it" sense.

[boris]

because our school systems teach the children that they are nothing but glorified apes who have evolutionized out of some primordial soup of mud

Since it would be reasonable to be against that yet favor teaching a reasonably accurate version consistent with student's maturity level ....

I'd say Krugworm is the one most confused about what evolution really is.

[Rick Ballard]

"It is quite instructive to compare his thoughts to today's world."

Live large, toss in George Orwell and John Dos Passos. Each of them had a slightly different description of the progressively putrescent stench emanating from the incestuous bastard cousins spawned by Hegel's ill advised mating with the old roué Rousseau.

[glenda]

Long time, no hear..Dr.J...I bet the real TCO shows up soon to tell us all it's our fault Krugman writes more drivel because we're not "right" enough!

How's the cell study going? Do you know of anyone doing autism studies through NIH?

TC-24 was grrrrrrrreat, tonight!! Just when I thought Jack might die because Tony was "helping"!! I still think Janene Gargoyle,oops Garafalo is bad to the bone!

[Danube of Thought]

"Is Krugman or Frank being especially intellectually honest?"

What's the difference between intellectual honesty and the regular kind?

[Adjoran]

Krugman's economic expertise is in his specialized area of international trade and the business cycle. In that area, he is brilliant, and was at one time the most knowledgeable person in the world.

However, this does not translate to him being some sort of expert on economics generally. His Special Prize from the Nobel Committee (there is no "Nobel Prize for Economics") wasn't given for his work, which was over and done years ago, but for sharing the Committee's antipathy towards GWB. It's a joke.

In fact, even back during the Clinton Administration, Krugman was dismissed as "having predicted 19 out of the last 3 recessions." Obviously, the naysayers can be wrong 90% of the time, but they only remember those brief moments when the business cycle rewards their negativity.

The statement is a blatant lie. DeLay only quoted a letter, one which had been read on air by Paul Harvey, although presumably because he generally approved of its message. Still, Krugman and others distort and when that isn't sufficient they just lie. What about all those darned "editors and fact-checkers" in "multiple layers" which supposedly ensure the MSM's alleged greater accuracy than random internet posts?

Having said all that, who gives a rat's patootie WHAT the likes of Krugman say?

[PD]

Is Krugman or Frank being especially intellectually honest? No. ...
So, yeah, Krugman was not unfair in his partisan charactarization of DeLay.

Got it.

[DrJ]

Glenda,

Yeah, I've been away, busy spending your money (grant review panels). I've tried to keep up with the posts, but it is really hard to do, and then contributing becomes even more of a challenge.

My grant has not kicked off yet, so things are pretty quiet here at the moment.

I've not looked for autism monies at NIH, but damn, it seems like their various stimulus programs cover pretty near everything. Well, other than what I am doing.

Belated congrats on the anniversary! Did you ever buy a laptop? (Both were you, right?)

[Dennis D]

Krugman has become so political and blind that he can no longer be trusted for his economic opinions.

[daddy]

Concerning that evolving from apes business, today's China Daily gives us the following on some Chinese monkeys;

" Monkeys grieve over sibling's accidental death

After a monkey was found dead along a road in Guizhou, an apparent victim of a traffic accident, several other monkeys hovered around the body for more than 24 hours.

The accident occurred on a road between Guiyan, capital of the province, and the city of Zunyi.

Police saw the other monkeys were making mournful noises over the body and did not respond to food that the police gave them.

After the body was removed, the monkeys remained near the bloodstains until the next morning, when they slowly walked away.

(Guizhou Metropolis Daily)

(China Daily 04/14/2009 page5)

[PD]

(no spoilers following)

Rush made a point at the end of today's show that we should watch "24": "It's good!" It was certainly better than last week. One of the trademark plot twists and a hint of another to come.

And the President did her best acting of the entire season without saying a word: Watch her right after the line, "Pick up the document, Madame."

Yeah, I know, "best acting" in this case is a low bar. But I thought it was great.

[Rick Ballard]

"Krugman has become so political and blind that he can no longer be trusted for his economic opinions."

Personally, I find Krugman as trustworthy today as he has ever been. It's not as if he started lying yesterday or the day before. The man has never changed his appreciation for and application of the truth. He is a perfect fit for the New York Times in every measure which counts to the publisher.

That's why it's broke.

[daddy]

And Jane,

Better watch out before you go to sleep tonight! NASA Astronomers have discovered an Orion">http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap090411.html">Orion SuperBubble overtop some suburban house in Boston Mass, and I'm worried that it might be yours. (That's "Or-ree-on" for you Mister President.)

[glenda]

DrJ...yes, it's me--40yr on 4/10 but I haven't settled on a laptop, yet, there are some good deals out there..Maybe there's some stimulus $$ for grannies!

[PaulL]

Phil Spector was wearing a "Barack Obama Rocks" button. Picture at Drudge.

And if you want to look at a disturbing mug shot, follow Drudge's link to The Smoking Gun.

[DrJ]

Glenda,

Sincerest congratulations of 40 years of marriage! That really is a big deal. I won't make that, I'm afraid.

On the laptop, there are lots of good deals. The key thing, in my mind, is how long you want it to go on a single charge. I travel, and want about six to eight hours per charge, while having enough power and low enough weight to be useful. If you want only two or three, or don't care much about power, weight or either, that is a lot easier, and less expensive.

[Jim Miller]

Here's something possibly relevant to this post: The editorial page editor of the NYT, Andrew Rosenthal, is taking questions on line from today through the 17th. I think Tom Maguire -- among others -- might have a good question or two for him.

Here are the exchanges so far. They slightly lowered my opinion of Rosenthal, which was not very high to begin with.

(I have so many that I haven't figured out which one to send him.)

[daddy]

Clarice,

The Acting US Attorney for The State of Alaska I rambled on about yesterday on the Ted Steven's post was Wev Shea. This">http://www.adn.com/opinion/compass/story/746592.html">This guy who is apparently writing a book about the problems with the Steven's Case, references Wev Shea, and says he "has been writing articles for weeks calling the prosecution of Ted Stevens "corrupt" and "unethical."

I don't have the time at the moment to track down any of the things Shea wrote, but he's the guy who accused the ADN of not publicizing that one of FBI Agent Joy's harshest critics was a retired FBI agent himself, and well familiar with the homely FBI agent from the previous post. Sorry to bogart this thread with OT stuff, but wasn't certain where everybody was thread-wise.

[PaulL]

Any thread on Krugman benefits from being steered off topic.

[RichatUF]

Since the Agreed Framework worked out so well, the Obama Administration would like to translate it into Farsi.

The proposals, exchanged in confidential strategy sessions with European allies, would press Tehran to open up its nuclear program gradually to wide-ranging inspection.

And going back to the Krugman column for a minute-"The abject apologies he has extracted from Republican politicians who briefly dared to criticize him have been right out of Stalinist show trials."-what?

Did we not just have a Stalinist show trial so that the Democrats could gain what was considered a safe Republican seat, thereby securing a near filibuster proof majority in the Senate? And don't we have a media, which went to extreme lengths, to destroy a private citizen in Ohio for having the temerity to ask Obama a difficult question. And maybe the good professor could describe what sort of economic system Obama's answer of "we're going to take some of that money and spread it around" would be?

[Topsecretk9]

Um, I just can not think about Krugman without thinking of how he was punked so badly by Jason Leopold...

Leopold's story attracted some notice in high journalistic places. On September 17, the New York Times's Paul Krugman published a column, "Cronies in Arms," that repeated some of Leopold's charges and concluded, "New evidence indicates that [Vice President Dick] Cheney's handpicked Army secretary was a corporate evildoer." Krugman explained: "Jason Leopold, a reporter writing a book about California's crisis, has acquired Enron documents that show Mr. White fully aware of what his division was up to. Mr. Leopold reported his findings in the online magazine Salon, and has graciously shared his evidence with me. It's quite damning."

But a short time after Krugman wrote those words, the Leopold story began to unravel. On September 23, Salon posted a notice saying the piece contained several instances of plagiarism. Leopold, Salon explained, had lifted significant portions of his article from a story that had appeared seven months earlier in the Financial Times. For example, here is a selection from Leopold's article in Salon:

...What Salon's readers could not know was that even as the editor's note was published, the entire e-mail story — and with it the main gotcha allegation against White — was falling apart. Yesterday, Salon published another editor's note. "After careful review," the note said, "Salon's editors have decided to take down from our Web site an article titled 'Tom White played key role in covering up Enron losses' that we published on Aug. 29. We took this unusual step because we have come to the conclusion that we can no longer stand by the story in its entirety. Though we have corroborated most of the reporting in the article, some unanswered questions remain. Specifically, we have been unable to independently confirm the authenticity of an e-mail from former Enron executive and current Army Secretary Thomas White that was quoted in the article."

With that, the original Salon story, so compelling in its allegations against White, simply vanished. To their credit, Salon's editors were the ones who informed their readers of the serious problems with Leopold's piece.

But readers of the New York Times have not been so well informed. Despite the seriousness of the plagiarism — which became public more than a week ago — Paul Krugman has not yet published a correction or a clarification of his original piece touting Leopold's work. Now that Salon has backed away from the e-mail story, Krugman's allegations seem completely baseless.

He was also punked on some big study a few years back. He's just a jackass dope, really.

[Jim Miller]

Glenda - Congratulations on 40 years. (I think wives usually deserve most of the credit when marriages really last.)

As far as I know, there are no stimulus payments for grannies, but there are special social security payments of $250 going out in late May. You're probably too young, but your husband might be old enough to get one. (Recipients don't have to do anything extra to get the payment.)

Don't know what you want to use your laptop for, so I can't offer you any advice on choices. It is worth paying a little extra -- in my opinion -- for a screen and a keyboard that you like.

[JM Hanes]

Appalled:

"TM, I think Krugman is within the realm of "fair", here."

I think you need to change your screen name.

[DrJ]

It is worth paying a little extra -- in my opinion -- for a screen and a keyboard that you like.

Agreed. I'd include the pointing device too.

Hi JMH!

[PD]

glenda, congrats! That's an accomplishment.

[Joe]

metallicagenius.blogspot.com Metallica fans of the world, please stop by and tell me what it is!!!

[Michael]

from your post

Hmm. The AlterNet cite is the one linked above; the book by Stephen Pizzo, "Inside Job", was published in 1989, covers the S&L debacle, and, I am quite confident, does not contain any of Mr. DeLay's thoughts on the 1999 Columbine shooting.

In case you missed it, the article was not Citing the book as the SOURCE for these quotes, but it was just telling you that the AUTHOR of the Alternet article also had a book for sale...

This is what is posted on the Alternet cite about the author...

Investigative journalist Stephen Pizzo's bestselling book, "Inside Job: The Looting of America's Savings and Loans," is now available as an ebook.

[Livon]

Oh how nice, my long comment was magically erased from the pages of this post for no apparent reason. May I inquiry the reason behind the censorship?

[JM Hanes]

NIce to see you, DrJ :-)

[glasater]

Since tea parties were mentioned briefly in a previous comment--I'm going to stretch that out to Malkin's post on Confirmed: The Obama DHS hit job on conservatives is real

From the DHS report:

(U//LES) Rightwing extremists are harnessing this historical election as a recruitment tool. Many rightwing extremists are antagonistic toward the new presidential administration and its perceived stance on a range of issues, including immigration and citizenship, the expansion of social programs to minorities, and restrictions on firearms ownership and use. Rightwing extremists are increasingly galvanized by these concerns and leverage them as drivers for recruitment. From the 2008 election timeframe to the present, rightwing extremists have capitalized on related racial and political prejudices in expanded propaganda campaigns, thereby reaching out to a wider audience of potential sympathizers.

Malkin implies the "teaparties" are part of this right wing extremism.

This came from a "tweet" and although I do not read Malkin regularly--she is for the most part pretty credible to my thinking.

[glasater]

Daddy~

Thanks so much for the Orion super bubble link. Fascinating area of photography that I read about from time to time.

I photographed a Lunar Eclipse twice and let me tell you it is not easy to photograph the night sky. Plus, a person can get very cold in the middle of the night in February pursuing that sort of activity.

[PeterUK]

The picture of Spector on Drudge confirms his insanity.An American badge pin on one side and a "Obama Rocks on the Other.
Obama seems to have a lot of suppor amongst the felon classes.

[PeterUK]

"It is teaching children that they are the products of evolution that is the cause of this. "

Evolution was one of the foundations of twentieth century leftist totalitarianism.
The construct of New Socialist man and the Master Race depended on the extinction or subjugation of other human variants.
"Survival of the fittest"

[clarice]

Yhanks Daddy. I don't understand what Groh is saying when he says Stevens never paid Allen ot Veco anything for the renovation worl.

[syn]

Krugman is such a brilliant economist that he was a useful adviser who led to Enron's fall.

I am looking forward to watching the Manhattan real estate take a dump into economic oblivion just like Enron; Krugman and his gang of Darwinian apes will be raging in their cages demanding bananas from the Democrat Party's rotting plantation.

The entire NE quadrant of the United States is going down like a California economic death spiral; all the money is heading for Texas and Tom Delay's joke is on Paul Krugman.

[Rick Ballard]

That's odd. President Obama's execution of three black teenagers doesn't seem to have had any deterrence value. It's almost as if those young black boys were pawns, sacrificed by their "village elders" in order to provide a little morality play regarding a "test".

I wonder if perhaps they were supposed to be captured and exhibited as examples of the need to pour American taxpayer's money into the Somali cesspool in order to build a new West Bank in Africa? Oh well, best laid plans and all that. No one can fault President Obama for not understanding how his "orders" would be interpreted. It's just part of his on the job training.

[the dark one]

Why do you put "slip a little" in quotes if Krugman didn't say it? And in a post where you accuse him of taking quotes out of context?

This whole post is an incoherent, dishonest mess.

[Jane]

WOw Daddy, I used to live in that house, but I moved. Amazing pix!

~

I get to filibuster today about the Tea Parties because Dick is going to be absent. It's at noon and you can hear if you click on the live streaming at the LUN.

I have no idea how it will turn out.

[Rick Ballard]

"I have no idea how it will turn out."

Probably with you being reported to Homeland Security by Obascum "watchers".

[Rick Ballard]

Golly, the Obaconomy is still pining for the fjords. One would think that Captain Zero and Turbo's heroic acts would have had some impact by now.

Or maybe they have...

[Appalled]

JMH:

The question is what's fair in partisan rhetoric, which by design isn't going to admit the other side has points, an intelligent thought in his/her head, or even a shred of decency. And, no, I'm not Appalled by either Tom or Krugman in this particular situation. Tom DeLay read a letter with the following endorsement:

Every once in a while, I read something or hear something that blows away all that smoke that clouds a particular issue. A letter written by a Mr. Addison Dawson to the San Angelo Standard-Times is just such a statement. In fact, after I make this statement, I do not think anybody else needs to speak. We just need to vote.

That's a pretty strong endorsement of the letter's contents. I'd say that DeLay had made the writer's comments his own.

Now did the letter writer -- via his "Buth they are honorable men" rhetorical device say that the teaching of evolution ""led to Columbine? No -- he said that it contributed (and he, essentially, said the availability of guns had not). There is a nuance between the two positions, but it is not as large as you think. (Both positions are daft.)

Now the nuance you guys are missing is that I think of Krugman not as a nobel prize winning economist, but as just another Olbermann type. he might provide information that's interesting from time to time, but he's just another partisan.

But, next time one of y'all (and I'm looking at TM, clarice, and other debaters here who use the quotes of the other side in their argumentation) decides to emphasize a bit of outsized rhetoric on the other side, and eliminate the qualifying language that likely cloaked the rhetoric, maybe you'll remember this little conversation. It's a standard bit of partisan rhetoric.

Well, enough tu quoque. I've got work to do....

[JohnR]

Delay clearly argued that liberalism, not guns, was the root cause of the Columbine massacre.

It's a bit simplistic to state, as Krugman did, that Delay argued that the teaching of evolution was a root cause. More like, everything that the left wing stands for, was a root cause.

So we can ding Krugman for playing fast and loose, sure. On the other hand, it's a flat-out loopy argument, no better and no worse than blaming Republican right-wing values the next time somebody gets slaughtered.

[Sue]

Oh how nice, my long comment was magically erased from the pages of this post for no apparent reason. May I inquiry the reason behind the censorship?

Posted by: Livon | April 14, 2009 at 02:57 AM

You can inquire, but I doubt you'll get a response. Typepad ignores everyone. There is no censorship here. Posts appear and disappear at will. Or at least, at the will of the Typepad gods.

[Sue]

You know, I took the evolution quote to mean we took God out of our schools. Which is probably what the author of the letter was referring to.

[Uncle BigBad]

For anyone wondering whatever became of Carol Herman, she's starting flame wars over at Lucianne.

[Appalled]

Sue:

It's not what the writer said. The writer contended:

school systems teach the children that they are nothing but glorified apes who have evolutionized out of some primordial soup of mud.

[sbw]

school systems teach the children that they are nothing but glorified apes who have evolutionized out of some primordial soup of mud.

You cannot expect nuanced comments to be interpreted correctly by Frank or Krugman. I mean, there are apes and then there are apes.

Nuance requires... well,... nuance requires more than they've got. And, besides, why should understanding stand in the way of their narrative?

[Sue]

Sue:

It's not what the writer said. The writer contended:

school systems teach the children that they are nothing but glorified apes who have evolutionized out of some primordial soup of mud.

Posted by: Appalled | April 14, 2009 at 09:42 AM

I can read, appalled. I know what the author wrote. I also know the thinking behind what the author wrote. Evolution in, God out.

[Appalled]

So, is evolution in, God out, therefor Columbine results a fair statement based on the letter? And isn't that what Krugman essentially claims DeLay said?

[Sue]

http://macsmind.com/wordpress/2009/04/07/about-that-obama-iraq-visit/>Mac is reporting that the wildly cheering crowds of soldiers in Iraq were hand picked Obama supporters. I can't wait for the MSM to report on this, or at least debunk it if untrue. Or not mention it all. You decide which route they'll take.